View Full Version : Is medication to blame? Please help :(
Hi everyone, please help me out, I really need it...
Yesterday, after it had been 6 weeks of upping my Venlafaxine dose to 187.5 mg, I experienced a complete and utter meltdown at work. My panic attacks were unbearable; I had very severe depersonalisation and almost rang the ambulance from how bad it was. I'd not felt like that in a long time, and I just am so worried about myself.
I rang my therapist this morning. I'm seeing her on Tuesday for a therapy session, but she suggested I go down by 35.5 mg and see if that makes a difference. I'm scared my current situation isn't medication-induced, but I've not been well in a while and my panic attacks feel out of control whereas I felt like I could control them on a lower dose. Basically, I'm scared of lowering my dose in case it makes me panic more.. What if I need a higher instead of a lower dose??
:wacko:
Has anyone ever had a higher dose of medication create more anxiety? Please help!
Btw I'm 114 lbs in case that's relevant...
Captn KK here...
Many doctors/therapists think the answer is usually increasing dose when an AD doesn't appear to be having desired effect but I actually don't always agree. A known side effect of many of these meds is actually increased anxiety, which can cause PAs, and with someone in lower end weight bracket, the dose could simply be too high. Trying not to be biased here because my own increase of Ven hasn't really helped my mood, although anxiety is perhaps slightly better, but not significantly. I would go with the lower dose and see if your panic situation improves.
PS - Can I order two T-shirts. One medium and one extra small (my cat is also a fan now) :shades:
It could be the medication, maybe you should go back down since you have such a tiny frame?
I tried reduce my clonazepam by a quarter yesterday and felt anxiety! I'm so worry that i'm physically and emotionally dependent on these things. I also take Lexepro, which helps a bit, but not as much as I had hoped.
MyNameIsTerry
13-10-17, 16:30
At 150mg Ven starts acting on your adrenaline. This can mean different types of side effects in my experience. You're not the only one to have this trouble (see Nicola1980 who had the same going to that dose) but not everyone has the same problems.
When I went over the threshold on my SNRI (Duloxetine) my anxiety was ramped up to levels I had never experienced and it took a long time to adjust (my GP should have adjusted, he thought it was my anxiety despite so many symptoms never before experienced until that very week and I trusted him) but it's impossible to predict as we are all so different.
If you handled 150mg it may just be a bit too activating right now? But some people can't tolerate higher doses of some meds too.
Captn KK here...
Many doctors/therapists think the answer is usually increasing dose when an AD doesn't appear to be having desired effect but I actually don't always agree. A known side effect of many of these meds is actually increased anxiety, which can cause PAs, and with someone in lower end weight bracket, the dose could simply be too high. Trying not to be biased here because my own increase of Ven hasn't really helped my mood, although anxiety is perhaps slightly better, but not significantly. I would go with the lower dose and see if your panic situation improves.
PS - Can I order two T-shirts. One medium and one extra small (my cat is also a fan now) :shades:
I agree with KK here but ven is a beast as regards dose reduction so it may be difficult to assess whether it is ven dosage or the reduction or in fact a completely random blip..
I'm your weight and could never tolerate "therapeutic" doses. I'm not convinced that these meds touch anxiety anyway.
To be honest, this last month has been the most stressful one in a very long time. I've had a number of bad things happen to me, hence why I'm inclined to believe that the medication simply might not have had the time to properly work.
After reading all your replies, I've decided to wait a bit more as a stressful situation is due to be resolved in the next two weeks, a change for the better is also due, and if the positive change doesn't improve my overall condition, then I'll know it's the medication dose that's to blame. I've always required higher doses of every medication I've ever been on, despite my small frame, as my anxiety is so high.
My therapist has mentioned that none of her patients that have been on Venlafaxine have ever experienced increased anxiety when on higher doses, but she also states that everyone is different and we all respond to medication differently.
Having said all that, I had a completely normal day today, after yesterday's horrific experience. I had no issues before, during, or after work. Anxiety works in mysterious ways!! :lac:
Thank you, everyone, for your replies, and KK, I'll even include a complimentary 'Ana' collar for your cat. :winks:
Hi Ana
You posted the other day asking about CBT4Panic - was it legit etc
I hope you were reassured by the replies
I appreciate that your post here was regarding your meds - but can I suggest that you have a look at CBT4Panic - what have you got to lose? - it's FREE - it's CBT - it's a fun read full of cartoons - and it is specifically for Panic Attacks
You really don't have to suffer from panic attacks forever - CBT is incredibly effective with panic disorder - but you have to start somewhere - YOU have to set the ball rolling
Why not click on this link and read the first workbook or watch a few of the videos or listen to the audios - or read the dialogues between myself and some clients
www.cbt4panic.org (http://www.cbt4panic.org/)
MyNameIsTerry
14-10-17, 02:31
My therapist has mentioned that none of her patients that have been on Venlafaxine have ever experienced increased anxiety when on higher doses, but she also states that everyone is different and we all respond to medication differently.
The same gets said about the SSRI's but there are plenty of people out there who experience problems increasing dosages as we all see on here.
I tend to look at when things start and if they are new. Suddenly feeling very different around the same time as starting a med or increasing it is a pretty good indicator over possible coincidence.
Since you've had a very stressful month though maybe it's a combination?
Whilst Ven reached strady-state very quickly (3 days) that's not how long it takes to do it's stuff as these 2 stage meds are just triggering more of a neurotransmitter. The later down regulation takes a bit longer. It's hard to judge and I think to an extent you play it by ear.
Terry, I think it's possible that it could be a combination of the two - stress & medication. I will not reduce the dose just yet, until I've spoken to my therapist on Tuesday morning. I think she'll help me better understand what's gone wrong with me, and I will therefore be able to make a decision as to what to do accordingly.
Honestly, I fear reducing medication in case the dose is not high enough. :wacko: I'll ask my therapist as many questions as I can about Venlafaxine and how exactly it works. I don't see the logic in prescribing it to an anxiety sufferer in case there's a possibility it might stimulate them at higher doses! :ohmy:
---------- Post added at 08:51 ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 ----------
Hi Ana
You posted the other day asking about CBT4Panic - was it legit etc
I hope you were reassured by the replies
I appreciate that your post here was regarding your meds - but can I suggest that you have a look at CBT4Panic - what have you got to lose? - it's FREE - it's CBT - it's a fun read full of cartoons - and it is specifically for Panic Attacks
You really don't have to suffer from panic attacks forever - CBT is incredibly effective with panic disorder - but you have to start somewhere - YOU have to set the ball rolling
Why not click on this link and read the first workbook or watch a few of the videos or listen to the audios - or read the dialogues between myself and some clients
www.cbt4panic.org (http://www.cbt4panic.org/)
Robin, if your programme cures me of this, I'm having a statue of you erected in the town square! :noangel:
:D
Please let me know how you get on
best of luck :)
I'm reading it now, thank you. :)
Robin, if your programme cures me of this, I'm having a statue of you erected in the town square! :noangel:
Statue of me and Mogs too please, Ana :shades:
Shouldn't it be you who erects a statue of me?
Some fan you are! :lac:
Mogs and I inspected the Town Square of which you speak and there is more than enough space for a statue of you too, so fear not :shades:
PS - Which brand of Ven do you take?
Haha! I'm glad there'll be a space for a statue of me. :roflmao:
Well I'm in Croatia, so the brand I use is Pliva. I take the 75 mg ones. I'm really curious as to what my therapist will say when I see her in two days. I'll take her advice and lower the dose if she thinks it's possible that the medication is stimulating my nervous system. I've not had panic attacks since Thursday, though my heart was racing over night last night and is beating fast again this morning. :(
It's not as if you take up much space anyway - you could probably fit through Mogs' cat-flap :roflmao:
Are they the prolonged release capsules? The immediate release tablets are like crack cocaine and should be banned forthwith :lac:
Guess I'm on crack cocaine then! :ohmy:
Haha aw I'll take the cat-flap comment as a compliment. One thing I've not noticed with Venlafaxine which I have noticed with Escitalopram is that the former doesn't make me feel brighter, less depressed, if you will. Even though Escitalopram wasn't working for my depersonalisation, it was making me happier, giving me a brighter outlook on things...
Guess I'm on crack cocaine then! :ohmy:
Ask for the prolonged release capsules because the immediate release ones cause more side effects. The slow release helps IMO. I was getting awful mood swings on immediate tabs and asked to be given the XL capsules. I think it makes a difference, Ana.
Ooh, okay, I'll ask her. My therapist did mention the slow release ones initially, but wasn't keen on putting me on them. I didn't have any side effect with Venlafaxine, except for a little bit of nausea when I'd take them on an empty stomach. Escitalopram was causing me nausea for weeks - it was unbearable. :(
MyNameIsTerry
16-10-17, 02:34
The prolonged release have a closer half life to some SSRI's like Sertraline so tend to be smoother. The immediate release have such a short half life that missing one dose puts you in withdrawal so your blood plasma levels are up & down more.
I make sure never to miss a dose or to even be late taking a tablet. I'll let you guys know what my therapist says yesterday. Thank you, everyone, for your replies and support. :hugs:
MyNameIsTerry
16-10-17, 11:03
You give loads of support to others on here, ana, it's only right you get some of that back when you need it :flowers:
Ooh, okay, I'll ask her. My therapist did mention the slow release ones initially, but wasn't keen on putting me on them. I didn't have any side effect with Venlafaxine, except for a little bit of nausea when I'd take them on an empty stomach. Escitalopram was causing me nausea for weeks - it was unbearable. :(
As Terry says, due to Venlafaxine's short half life, the immediate release can have a powerful initial "hit" then quickly feel like you're withdrawing from it, which is why many doctors/psychs now prescribe once daily prolonged release capsules. Everyone is different but I've experienced this myself on immediate release and read hundreds of accounts by others who have similar stories. You have nothing to lose by giving the XL a trial - plus it's easier taking a single daily dose.
Still waiting for your 'signed pic' :lac:
__________________
Awww thank you, Terry! That's very sweet of you :hugs:
KK, I'm still waiting for my PayPal payment. :shades:
I'll see what my therapist says about the XL tablets. She didn't sound keen on them in the beginning, but perhaps she'll prescribe those to me soon.
KK, I'm still waiting for my PayPal payment. :shades:
:D
"Payment accepted. Your signed Ana photo will be sent 1st Class. Thank you again for your order with ANA Productions Ltd"
:roflmao: KK!! You'd better frame that photo. I worked hard...signing it. The struggle is real.
Speaking of struggle, I saw my therapist this morning and she seemed to think it was because of everything that had happened in September that I'd had a little crisis/setback. We agreed on not changing the medication dose for at least 2 more weeks, till after I've moved.
Hopefully the rest of my week goes well and I don't freak out at work again. I've arranged to see a colleague after work tomorrow, which I'm looking forward to, despite being scared!
Hi Ana, slightly late to this thread as I've not been on the site much lately. I've been on venlafaxine since March 2013, 300mg a day which were initially in the tablet form. However, about 2 years ago my GP changed the tablets to the modified release capsules after a rough spell. I 'think' I'm better than I was back then, though obviously don't want to pull the tiger's tail as it were. Clearly from people's experiences, environmental factors play a part in our anxiety as a whole as well as brain chemicals. I do hope you start to feel better soon, it sounds like you've had an awful time.
PS - my GP started me on the tablets because they were cheaper than the capsules. He has since left the practice.
:roflmao: KK!! You'd better frame that photo. I worked hard...signing it. The struggle is real.
Speaking of struggle, I saw my therapist this morning and she seemed to think it was because of everything that had happened in September that I'd had a little crisis/setback. We agreed on not changing the medication dose for at least 2 more weeks, till after I've moved.
Hopefully the rest of my week goes well and I don't freak out at work again. I've arranged to see a colleague after work tomorrow, which I'm looking forward to, despite being scared!
Hope you've made the right decision and things get better for you :D
PS: Is your colleague an Ana fan too?
Thank you, Fishman :hugs:
I hope I've made the right decision, as if I could replicate the effects of Clonazepam, I'd be thrilled! It sounds like such a sad thing to admit to, but it really makes me feel normal by eliminating the feelings of unreality and depersonalisation. Just this morning, I was struggling with going to work, I took half a Rivotril, and the world felt stable and normal.
Have any of you had experience with anti-psychotics? Apparently, they are used (in combination with anti-depressants) to relieve some anxiety symptoms, but my therapist has only mentioned this in passing. I don't think she's suggested I try them.
KK.... of course she is. Most people are, and I can't say I blame them. :shades:
I was prescribed risperidone Ana in 2013. They made me feel doped up and to be honest I felt they were just blocking the anxiety rather than addressing it. I've not taken any since and still have three packs of them.
I pulled the tiger's tail yesterday and today it's turned :weep:
Oh no, sorry to hear you're not well today, Fishman. :(
Risperidone, you say. I just want something, anything that would have the same effect on me as Rivotril does... minus the dependency!
The magic pill that no one has managed to manufacture yet, Ana!! I would give anti psychotics a wide berth although they seemed to be offered as a "top up" to increase the effectiveness of anti depressants. Hell yeah.
Oh no, sorry to hear you're not well today, Fishman. :(
Risperidone, you say. I just want something, anything that would have the same effect on me as Rivotril does... minus the dependency!
Part of feeling "yourself" again when you take clonazepam is the addiction. The only way to beat it is to slowly withdraw and for the Ven to fully kick in and work. Have you ever tried substituting clonazepam for diazepam, which is a longer acting benzo?
Anti-psych meds can have some nasty side effects and I don't think they would help in your case anyway. I would avoid them.
Wise words from KK. Stick to the ven and avoid the optional extras which are false friends and to be used very sparingly (preferably diazepam) in true crisis situations.
I withdrew from Clonazepam last year and now I only take it on an as per needed basis. I can go months without taking any, or I'd take one once every 2 weeks. I used to take them every day for 9 years, so this is a major improvement. I have been on Xanax before, though I don't want to go down the sedative road again. My therapist says it's ok to take a benzo when I'm really panicky and that it works well in a combination with Venlafaxine.
I wish there was a magic pill, but even though I know there isn't one, I was just curious about anti-psychotics. I used to be on Sulpirid, which I believe is one, though I'm not 100% sure...
How are you doing Ana? You've not posted update for a while. I'm seriously thinking about reducing Ven from 150mg - depression has increased in recent weeks, although I generally struggle this time of year. Been 4 months since I went up to 150mg and I don't want to increase further as I have enough side effects to contend with already. Oh the joys of meds :lac:
KK,
thank you for thinking about me and asking how I am. Yesterday, my therapist put me on 25 mg of an anti-psychotic called Seroquel. Seeing as the medication has a sedating effect in lower doses, I'm hopeful it will help with my depersonalisation symptoms.
Aw, maybe you should go down, unless you believe the depression isn't medication-induced. You should take the dose that's right for you and that you get on with the best. :)
KK,
thank you for thinking about me and asking how I am. Yesterday, my therapist put me on 25 mg of an anti-psychotic called Seroquel. Seeing as the medication has a sedating effect in lower doses, I'm hopeful it will help with my depersonalisation symptoms.
Aw, maybe you should go down, unless you believe the depression isn't medication-induced. You should take the dose that's right for you and that you get on with the best. :)
Maybe the lesser evil would be to remain as I am for the time being and avoid withdrawals from reducing this beastly med :lac:
Let us know how you get on and good luck. Hope it helps DP and anxiety.
Thank you, KK, I also hope you feel better and I do agree that staying as you are would be the best thing to do right now. Like you say, you don't want to put yourself through more misery by lowering your dose of medication!
KK,
thank you for thinking about me and asking how I am. Yesterday, my therapist put me on 25 mg of an anti-psychotic called Seroquel. Seeing as the medication has a sedating effect in lower doses, I'm hopeful it will help with my depersonalisation symptoms.
Aw, maybe you should go down, unless you believe the depression isn't medication-induced. You should take the dose that's right for you and that you get on with the best. :)
How are you finding Seroquel, Ana? Have you taken it yet? I've felt mood lifting slightly last couple of days so maybe it was just "time of month" :wacko:
I'm really quite happy with Seroquel, KK. To be honest, I wasn't expecting it to do much, but even though I still had one-two panic attacks since I've started using it, they weren't as bad and only lasted a short while. I think I'll get on well with this medication. :)
I'm so pleased to hear that your mood is lifting. I'm always happy to hear about my fans doing so well. :shades:
Hi Ana,
Do you take Venlafaxine and serequel? I need something to calm my body and mind. I wake up with panic attacks every day. Right now I take Clonazapam daily and Lexepro. The clonazepam helps, but the Lexepro is patchy. My doctor recommended pristiq, which is similar to venlafaxine. I tried the venlafaxine for two weeks and couldn't get over the racing heart, which gave me panic attacks. Maybe I should have stuck it out??
You definitely should have. 2 weeks is far too little time for the medication to even start working. You need to give it at least 6 weeks... I'm quite pleased with Venlafaxine and I would highly recommend steering clear of Clonazepam as it's highly addictive and only works in the moment, without keeping your anxiety levels stable. Combining an anti psychotic with an anti depressant seems like a good idea to me and I guess time will tell how well I get on with it. ☺
I'm really quite happy with Seroquel, KK. To be honest, I wasn't expecting it to do much, but even though I still had one-two panic attacks since I've started using it, they weren't as bad and only lasted a short while. I think I'll get on well with this medication. :)
I'm so pleased to hear that your mood is lifting. I'm always happy to hear about my fans doing so well. :shades:
So pleased you're doing well with Seroquel, Ana. Must admit, I was a bit sceptical at first, but we could discuss side effects and med profiles till we're blue in the face - ultimately, the only way to know is to try it. Keep your fans updated :D
Ach, while I'm here, Mogs would like another 'Ana' collar - pink this time please, danke :shades:
KK,
other than the severe sleepiness that overcomes me 2 hours after I've taken it, Seroquel and I have been getting on well. ;) I mean, it's no Clonazepam, but it appears to be working.
Would Mogs prefer a light pink or a dark pink one? The dark pink ones are almost out of stock...
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