View Full Version : Can we always trust doctors?
I think that my health anxiety spiraling was initially caused or aggravated specifically with doctors fault. I was anxious before, but I didn't rush to the hospital or doctors for every single problem I had. After my dad committed suicide I became even more anxious but I was keeping myself pretty well.
A month after my dad died I developed a bad cough and shortness of breath. My then GP did blood work and CRP - it was not elevated so she refused to get me an xray. Said I was fine and it was all from my anxiety. So the next day I went to university, passed an exam and felt so ill ... I went back home - 4 hours on a train - my lungs were literally on fire, i drank ice cold water and it didn't help. I got hallucinations and honestly I almost died. My mom waited for me in my city, with an ambulance. My temperature was 41C ,and turns out I had pneumonia. Luckily I was prescribed antibiotics and got better. That was the first ding ding ding in my anxious mind that I couldn't trust doctors! Because my CRP is never elevated, nor is my moms. Must be something in our blood.
But I was fine and NO bouts of health anxiety until 2014! I had throat issues and never thought twice about them. Swallowed a Bactrim pill and 10 minutes later my skin was developing big, red, raised, itchy and burning nodules, symmetric. My eyes were swollen and my lips and hard and soft palate were full with blisters and sores, like you get with herpes, just many more and much more painful. Next day I went to ER and they gave me anti allergy system and red nodules ended itching, but other things stayed. I was sure I had allergic reaction because it happened after the pill, literally.
But doctors insisted that I have sarcoidosis! A dreadful autoimmune disease of lungs. They didn't perform tests, just said that I have it because of my symmetric erythema. I refused to stay and check because It was ridiculous. I KNEW it was an allergy and if I stay away from that pill, I am going to be ok. Later I found out (Dr.Google helped me) that what I had was actually Steven Johnson syndrome from antibiotics, really an allergic reaction - severe one. Maybe I had better stayed in hospital because I had those problems with my mouth sores and nodules didn't disappear for MONTHS! Even 2 years later I still had scars left. Steven Johnson syndrome literally is a reaction that causes skin tissue death.
But when I went home, I GOOGLED sarcoidosis and it was the start of my health anxiety. I immediately developed shortness of breath, and other somatic symptoms. I checked myself every day for months scared to find new red rash.
News flash, I did not have sarcoidosis. I really did have allergy and Steven Johnsons syndrome. I had the same allergic reaction a few months ago to another sulfanomide but not that severe. So doctors suggesting I had SARCOIDOSIS was plainly stupid and unprofessional.
So I had two cases of doctors being wrong - first when she didn't diagnose me with what I actually had, second when they diagnosed me with an awful disease I didn't have.
While I understand that these cases served as triggers for my health anxiety because since that SARCOIDOSIS thing I've diagnosed myself with all possible kinds of diseases and I don't trust doctors easily. I only trust it somewhat when they perform scans/tests for specific reasons. Just "opinions" I can't trust, especially from not a specialist, just a GP or internist (one that diagnosed me with Sarcoidosis). So If I have a real or perceived problem I make sure I get all the available tests and go the best specialists of the field. As if THEY say I am fine, then I can believe I am.
Sounds like you've had some very specific situations there that have led you down a very specific way of thinking, but whatever we think we know from Googling we are unqualified to understand most of it and the biases of our anxiety means we are not impartial enough to do "research" as we cherry-pick the things that scare us and ignore the reams of reassurance we see along the way.
We can't get a test for every blip and burble we go to our GPs with. The NHS would be bankrupted overnight. What you call an "opinion" from a GP is the result of years of incredibly hard medical school followed by many more years of on-the-job training and experience. The fact that doctors don't always get it right first time (which is vastly different from being "stupid and unprofessional") does not mean we can go in with a relativist view that our "opinion" from doing a bit of Googling is as good as theirs.
Very occasionally "Dr Google" will be right, but generally it has given users of this forum (myself included) nothing but grief and sent them down rabbit-holes of life-destroying panic and should always be avoided at all costs by those who want to control their health anxiety. Leave it to the professionals.
Sounds like you've had some very specific situations there that have led you down a very specific way of thinking, but whatever we think we know from Googling we are unqualified to understand most of it and the biases of our anxiety means we are not impartial enough to do "research" as we cherry-pick the things that scare us and ignore the reams of reassurance we see along the way.
We can't get a test for every blip and burble we go to our GPs with. The NHS would be bankrupted overnight. What you call an "opinion" from a GP is the result of years of incredibly hard medical school followed by many more years of on-the-job training and experience. The fact that doctors don't always get it right first time (which is vastly different from being "stupid and unprofessional") does not mean we can go in with a relativist view that our "opinion" from doing a bit of Googling is as good as theirs.
Very occasionally "Dr Google" will be right, but generally it has given users of this forum (myself included) nothing but grief and sent them down rabbit-holes of life-destroying panic and should always be avoided at all costs by those who want to control their health anxiety. Leave it to the professionals.
I know! And I do not encourage to self diagnose over the google! It is just I don't understand how can I step over my own experience and start trusting doctors again! That was the point of my post. :(
Unfortunately, there are bad doctors out there. I feel for you. I can understand why you are not trusting of them. You have had a couple of bad experiences. However, not all doctors are like this. Most doctors get things right.
I pay for all my tests myself or my job insurance does. I do not use state funded medicine often because waiting lists are so long that I think I am either going to die from that problem I fear or from my health anxiety (and latter is more correct :D )
I know! And I do not encourage to self diagnose over the google! It is just I don't understand how can I step over my own experience and start trusting doctors again! That was the point of my post. :(
Sorry, I think I probably read you wrong and sorry if I was snappy - it's just my experiences with falling for Dr Google have led me to such awful places...
I think you have look at the language you used though to see how you're thinking - i.e. thinking if a doctor is wrong they must be "stupid and unprofessional". Maybe they were, I don't know, but it's also possible they were fallible human beings whose job it is to make the most logical and likely call based on the information presented to them. That doesn't necessarily make them stupid, or unprofessional, if sometimes a patient comes back and they need to think of a plan B.
You had some experiences that have shaped your viewpoint here, which are understandable, but doctors are hugely well-trained. I work in a university and I know the absolute torture they go through to get qualified - I'm not sure why anyone does it! When a doctor gives an "opinion" it is an expert opinion, based on at least a decade's training and experience, it's not just a guess.
But I guess you know all this, and your anxious brain's working on a much less rational level than that.
Again sorry for sounding snappy, I didn't mean to be. :)
Sorry, I think I probably read you wrong and sorry if I was snappy - it's just my experiences with falling for Dr Google have led me to such awful places...
I think you have look at the language you used though to see how you're thinking - i.e. thinking if a doctor is wrong they must be "stupid and unprofessional". Maybe they were, I don't know, but it's also possible they were fallible human beings whose job it is to make the most logical and likely call based on the information presented to them. That doesn't necessarily make them stupid, or unprofessional, if sometimes a patient comes back and they need to think of a plan B.
You had some experiences that have shaped your viewpoint here, which are understandable, but doctors are hugely well-trained. I work in a university and I know the absolute torture they go through to get qualified - I'm not sure why anyone does it! When a doctor gives an "opinion" it is an expert opinion, based on at least a decade's training and experience, it's not just a guess.
But I guess you know all this, and your anxious brain's working on a much less rational level than that.
Again sorry for sounding snappy, I didn't mean to be. :)
Yes, I understand all that. Apart from my health anxiety I am a pretty rational being. I only called what they did as stupid and unprofessional because it sent me on a downward spiral of my mental health. I am angry, that is why I said so. I understand that everyone can make mistakes. But the information that was presented to them is that I had a pill and had a reaction to it 10 minutes later. I visited an allergist later on and she agreed that it was an allergy and bewared me not to take that pill ever again or it can be fatal next time.
But I was obsessed with that sarcoidosis thing at least for a few months. I just think that they shouldn't have said what they said - with no tests or xrays of my lungs not suggesting sarcoidosis but insisting I had it. When I said I would not stay in hospital, the doctor actually said that she knows that I will come back when I have new rash appearing, that it will not be the last time and then I will find out she was right. And that was, in my opinion, unprofessional - to scare me with no real reason..
Maybe it wouldn't have left such an impression on a person with a stable mental health but for me it did. A week later I had read many forums about living with sarcoidosis, how people suffered from it, etc. That is where Dr.Google started playing tricks on me. :D
Yes, I understand all that. Apart from my health anxiety I am a pretty rational being. I only called what they did as stupid and unprofessional because it sent me on a downward spiral of my mental health. I am angry, that is why I said so. I understand that everyone can make mistakes. But the information that was presented to them is that I had a pill and had a reaction to it 10 minutes later. I visited an allergist later on and she agreed that it was an allergy and bewared me not to take that pill ever again or it can be fatal next time.
But I was obsessed with that sarcoidosis thing at least for a few months. I just think that they shouldn't have said what they said - with no tests or xrays of my lungs not suggesting sarcoidosis but insisting I had it. When I said I would not stay in hospital, the doctor actually said that she knows that I will come back when I have new rash appearing, that it will not be the last time and then I will find out she was right. And that was, in my opinion, unprofessional - to scare me with no real reason..
Maybe it wouldn't have left such an impression on a person with a stable mental health but for me it did. A week later I had read many forums about living with sarcoidosis, how people suffered from it, etc. That is where Dr.Google started playing tricks on me. :D
Yeah... I get where you're coming from with that one.
unicorndusy
12-01-18, 18:21
Hi there,
Sorry to hear about the misdiagnosis' you have had...I would too feel the same as you and actually find it hard to trust doctors even though they haven't got it wrong with me yet (touch wood). I always read about people who have been assured nothing is wrong and they have died. What you need to remember is that 99% of doctors get things right on the money consistently and as we are human we can all make mistakes. It's hard to accept when you have anxiety, but most doctors care and have studied hard for their qualification and know their stuff. Take care
Peace and love
There are bad doctors, same as there are incompetent or rude people in every other walk of life. It's not as common as the newspapers would have you think though. They would have you think every one is making mistakes, ignoring syptoms etc.
Unfortunately this does affect some people but it is a very small number.
The key is to find one you have faith in and also not be afraid to ask for a second opinion if you have a concern not being addressed. If you aren't happy find one that inspires confidence.
The bottom line is we dont have an option but to trust them with the most valuable things we have. There really isnt a viable alternative.
I agree with some of the other comments as this would have thrown anyone, anxiety or not, off kilter. Doctors are human too but to run into two doctors that got it wrong is rare indeed!
I do get it though. I've experienced far too many serious health issues the last ten years. What I found was that you have to be your own advocate. Don't be shy to press for information or a second opinion if needed. When my wife took ill, she was initially misdiagnosed. I saw the test results and her treatment was useless. When I questioned the doctor he literally said "Sometimes these tests are wrong". He was an arrogant little ^%$#@. Long story short, a few days after that and watching my wife go downhill fast, I transferred her to another hospital. They diagnosed her and saved her life.
The same thing happened to me when I started my cancer journey. Something just didn't "feel" right with the hospital and doctors. They didn't seem to be coordinated with each other. I sought a 2nd opinion at Johns Hopkins and it was a no brainer. I'm here today because of my team at JH.
I really don't have a mistrust of doctors. To me, it's not so much how good the doctor they are as much as it's how good a person they are. My wife and I have seen our fair share of doctors and bedside manner along with genuine compassion go a long way.
Positive thoughts
Hi there,
Sorry to hear about the misdiagnosis' you have had...I would too feel the same as you and actually find it hard to trust doctors even though they haven't got it wrong with me yet (touch wood). I always read about people who have been assured nothing is wrong and they have died. What you need to remember is that 99% of doctors get things right on the money consistently and as we are human we can all make mistakes. It's hard to accept when you have anxiety, but most doctors care and have studied hard for their qualification and know their stuff. Take care
Peace and love
I have read too many misdiagnosis stories to trust just a single doctor :scared15:
Regarding lymph nodes, I asked my usual doctor 3 times, and sought second opinions from like 6 other doctors. Even after this, I am a tad scared something was missed. I want to trust doctors but sometimes their dismissive tone throws me off, forcing me to seek other opinions. I never got referred to a specialist and honestly, I feel like GPs are just doctors that know other doctors
and sought second opinions from like 6 other doctors
That's not six "second opinions", that's second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh opinions...
I get doctors can make mistakes, and maybe even two, and some really need to work on their bedside manner, but if you feel you have to ask seven different doctors it says way more about your mental state than doctors' competence.
What we HAers tend to forget is our woes are pretty bog standard stuff, and not some crazy obscure medical marvel that would require House MD and his team to work out some puzzle that all other doctors would miss.
just doctors that know other doctors
This is hugely disrespectful to people who have done around a decade of gruelling medical training.
WiseMonkey
16-01-18, 09:52
Most Drs have a generalised knowledge of basic medical conditions, they can't be expected to know the answer to everything. Sometimes their patients may know more about certain illnesses than they do. I've found that autoimmune conditions are one area in particular.
A good Dr will refer their patients on to a specialist if they're not sure.
Yeah that is true. I'm not saying GPs don't know what they're talking about but they seem to be on the lower end in comparison to specialists. Yes I do sometimes feel silly asking them questions that are probably just normal but you can never be too sure :shrug:
but you can never be too sure :shrug:
I think you can be long before you've seen your seventh doctor.
I think you can be long before you've seen your seventh doctor.
I do want to know, how many opinions is too many? I live near a large hospital and clinic district where there are A LOT of GPs and primary care doctors so it's very easy to access.
Annaboodle
16-01-18, 10:17
I do want to know, how many opinions is too many? I live near a large hospital and clinic district where there are A LOT of GPs and primary care doctors so it's very easy to access.
If you're consulting 6 or 7 doctors because you won't accept a diagnosis your HA is out of control. Suggesting that you are "forced" to do so because of the incompetence of GPs is just you trying to justify your HA to yourself. It is also hugely disrespectful to doctors, but I realise that is hopefully just your HA talking.
I live near a large hospital and clinic district where there are A LOT of GPs and primary care doctors so it's very easy to access.
Who all would prefer not to have their workload increased by someone who's asking the same questions repeatedly after already been told they're fine by six other perfectly good physicians.
I do want to know, how many opinions is too many?
Unless symptoms change dramatically between visits, more than two is pushing it, IMHO.
I think that my health anxiety spiraling was initially caused or aggravated specifically with doctors fault. I was anxious before, but I didn't rush to the hospital or doctors for every single problem I had. After my dad committed suicide I became even more anxious but I was keeping myself pretty well.
A month after my dad died I developed a bad cough and shortness of breath. My then GP did blood work and CRP - it was not elevated so she refused to get me an xray. Said I was fine and it was all from my anxiety. So the next day I went to university, passed an exam and felt so ill ... I went back home - 4 hours on a train - my lungs were literally on fire, i drank ice cold water and it didn't help. I got hallucinations and honestly I almost died. My mom waited for me in my city, with an ambulance. My temperature was 41C ,and turns out I had pneumonia. Luckily I was prescribed antibiotics and got better. That was the first ding ding ding in my anxious mind that I couldn't trust doctors! Because my CRP is never elevated, nor is my moms. Must be something in our blood.
But I was fine and NO bouts of health anxiety until 2014! I had throat issues and never thought twice about them. Swallowed a Bactrim pill and 10 minutes later my skin was developing big, red, raised, itchy and burning nodules, symmetric. My eyes were swollen and my lips and hard and soft palate were full with blisters and sores, like you get with herpes, just many more and much more painful. Next day I went to ER and they gave me anti allergy system and red nodules ended itching, but other things stayed. I was sure I had allergic reaction because it happened after the pill, literally.
But doctors insisted that I have sarcoidosis! A dreadful autoimmune disease of lungs. They didn't perform tests, just said that I have it because of my symmetric erythema. I refused to stay and check because It was ridiculous. I KNEW it was an allergy and if I stay away from that pill, I am going to be ok. Later I found out (Dr.Google helped me) that what I had was actually Steven Johnson syndrome from antibiotics, really an allergic reaction - severe one. Maybe I had better stayed in hospital because I had those problems with my mouth sores and nodules didn't disappear for MONTHS! Even 2 years later I still had scars left. Steven Johnson syndrome literally is a reaction that causes skin tissue death.
But when I went home, I GOOGLED sarcoidosis and it was the start of my health anxiety. I immediately developed shortness of breath, and other somatic symptoms. I checked myself every day for months scared to find new red rash.
News flash, I did not have sarcoidosis. I really did have allergy and Steven Johnsons syndrome. I had the same allergic reaction a few months ago to another sulfanomide but not that severe. So doctors suggesting I had SARCOIDOSIS was plainly stupid and unprofessional.
So I had two cases of doctors being wrong - first when she didn't diagnose me with what I actually had, second when they diagnosed me with an awful disease I didn't have.
While I understand that these cases served as triggers for my health anxiety because since that SARCOIDOSIS thing I've diagnosed myself with all possible kinds of diseases and I don't trust doctors easily. I only trust it somewhat when they perform scans/tests for specific reasons. Just "opinions" I can't trust, especially from not a specialist, just a GP or internist (one that diagnosed me with Sarcoidosis). So If I have a real or perceived problem I make sure I get all the available tests and go the best specialists of the field. As if THEY say I am fine, then I can believe I am.
What do you mean when you say you didn’t stay and check when the hospital doctors said you had Sarcoidosis?
What do you mean when you say you didn’t stay and check when the hospital doctors said you had Sarcoidosis?
They wanted me to stay in hospital because they said I have sarcoidosis. I didn't wan to because I knew i didn't have it. I was having an allergic reaction for gods sake! Not the first time and not the last time! So I refused to stay and went away, signing papers that I take on responsibility for my decision
---------- Post added at 12:05 ---------- Previous post was at 12:02 ----------
Today i visited my gynecologist, she took a look at my breast ultrasound result, saw that the doctor who performed it, was respectable and knowedgeble, felt my lump, took a look on her ultrasound machine (for my calming down), and everything was fine. It really was just an engorged milk duct. Finally I can calm down. But my HA says - what if you calm down and then something happens? As if being stressed and worried somehow prevent bad things from happening!
If you’d stayed at the hospital then they would have established through tests that you didn’t have Sarcoidosis. You put yourself through weeks of angst by signing yourself out.
I'm completely with you and think my own experiences with doctors has contributed to why I seek so much HA reassurance. Because I don't totally trust doctors (which is actually very rational given my experiences). So it leaves one feeling quite bereft when you're then feeling anxious or ill but can't trust the one group of people (docs) who you're suppose to be able to trust to help you.
My experiences...
1) One highly regarded doctor diagnosed me with MS when I was 22yo. (I've since had many doctors refute that dx.)
2) After a knee surgery, my physical therapist told me to do something to which I told him I don't think I can and that my knee felt too weak to do the motion he wanted me to do. He insisted, I did it, it tore something in my knee, and back into surgery I went.
3) My "non-force" chiropractor almost paralyzed me because he wasn't paying attention to what he was doing. My subsequent neurologist told me he sees paralysis all the time as a result of chiros. This spinal injury has changed my life in countless and very serious ways.
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