Financial Crises: 10th Anniversary

[mezzaninedoor]

Ive been reflecting on the fact that we are 10 years down the line from the original global financial crisis and knock on crises.
We have seen some but minor reformation of financial institutions and we have seen average wage growth really stagnant, even though allegedly the rich are once again doing much better, thanks!

My feelings seem to be:-

• The next crash won't look like the last one.

• Bitcoin bubble will pop - unclear whether it will take down wider and traditional markets.

• 30 year bond bull market appears to be ending - unclear on fallout of this, could stoke a boom in equities...and thence resultant crash, the next crash?

• growing acceptance is that globalisation is good for the 1%, but not so good for workers in developed nations (suppressing wages, weakening job security, gip economy) - this will continue as global capitalism is the map

• increased nationalism and isolationism in the west – this trend will continue as well in part may lead to protectionism

• growing rift / understanding / anger between the Haves (Baby boomer generation) and the Have Nots (Millenials) - ultimately I think this will result in money taken from Boomers (increased taxation) to give to Millenials somehow

What do others think?

[MyNameIsTerry]

The US seem to be going more protectionist but I doubt it will last as that's more about Trump than the Republicans from what I can tell so it may just revert again. Globalisation is what the rich & big business want.

I don't accept Brexit will make us more protectionist though as we will need to seek more global trade to compensate. And the EU is a protectionist trade block anyway so to an extent we already were.

The Haves worked hard for what they have. Because of the housing boom it seems everyone after them (which includes me) is seen as a Have Not. I don't begrudge those who came before me as I watched my dad work up to 7 days a week to bring up 3 kids and my mum had 2 part time jobs once we were a bit older.

There seems to be this fallacy that those generations lived a charmed life but it's a load of nonsense. Where were all the Xboxs? The teenagers with cars? The holidays abroad? It makes me think that it's the middle classes people point too because the working class didn't have much of anything.

The housing market is obviously a big problem that needs sorting. I don't own a house and at my age I will end up even worse off than younger generations but I can understand how they feel about prices. It's easier up here though, god knows how anyone can afford to live in London.

But I was reading an interesting article about social housing and that looks like a really good way to help them out. Especially things like living in commercial properties whilst they are empty or converting commercial properties. There are so many boarded up old commercials in my city that the council let rot and get rat infested.

Wouldn't it be great if we didn't have to bail the banks out? They've got us by the short & curlies though as if the banks go everything else folds with them.

The 1% have always done great. They got taxed a lot harder after the wars but today they can shift their cash anywhere the same day and governments everyone would be happy to accept them so the old tax threats aren't add useful anymore. Not sure how that can be solved in a global market?

[MyNameIsTerry]

Did you see this? Instant promotion to the Lords I reckon :winks:

https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/953279820187799554

https://pbs.twimg.com/ext_tw_video_thumb/953279067511455745/pu/img/1xzq4L2_pyqB42Ex.jpg:small

[mezzaninedoor]

My Dad is 80, Im 53 and my Sons are 29,30
My Dad worked really hard for what he has, he has a good pension, private final salary but from a working class truck drivers job, where he did well was he bought a cheap house in the 1960's
I have a good pension but its at the behest of the financial markets how good that will be, my house/mortgage was more expensive over longer than my Dad but I think Im happy with my lot.
My Son (UK) has a great work ethic, works really hard and with earning just slightly above minimum wage ( with recent wage stagnation ) cant afford to save a deposit so he is paying ( wasting ) £750 a month on rent so I do get that it can be tougher out there for the youngsters. Only way he will get on the Housing ladder is with help from bank of Mum & Dad at some point, probably us providing most of any deposit some how.

Son in USA has done pretty well because house prices dived after the crash in USA

[Hollow]

The global financial system is based on the printing of money out of thin air and usury. Under such system wealth will always end up in the hands of those at the top of the pyramid, namely the oligarchs. Usury is strongly forbidden in both Christianity and Islam and it's one the reasons why they're under attack by the Globalists. To distract people from this reality, the Oligarchs use the strategy of divide and control, turning the young against the old and women against men etc. Also, the masses are kept occupied using the old "bread and circuses" act. However, this can't go on forever so sooner or later we'll be back to the situation of the 1930's Germany.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1nrcJhIAAAzg26.jpg

[Noivous]

I found this interesting. John Tyler born in 1790. Was US President in 1841. Has 2 grandsons still living today...yes grandsons.

[mezzaninedoor]

The global financial system is based on the printing of money out of thin air and usury. Under such system wealth will always end up in the hands of those at the top of the pyramid, namely the oligarchs. Usury is strongly forbidden in both Christianity and Islam and it's one the reasons why they're under attack by the Globalists. To distract people from this reality, the Oligarchs use the strategy of divide and control, turning the young against the old and women against men etc. Also, the masses are kept occupied using the old "bread and circuses" act. However, this can't go on forever so sooner or later we'll be back to the situation of the 1930's Germany.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1nrcJhIAAAzg26.jpg

Hollow, thats an interesting perspective
Can you just fill me in a little more on what Usury? is

[MyNameIsTerry]

Hollow, thats an interesting perspective
Can you just fill me in a little more on what Usury? is

High rate lending.

I see what you mean with your youngest, that's high rent. That's another area that needs addressing isn't it? Rents are more £350-450 around here so they swallow up less.

I think it's a matter of the housing market getting out of control in desirable areas because it's a different story in places like my city where you can get something in the £60-80k range to get your first footing.

[KK77]

because it's a different story in places like my city where you can get something in the £60-80k range to get your first footing.

Be lucky to get a garage for that in London :lac:

[MyNameIsTerry]

Be lucky to get a garage for that in London :lac:

Yep, but it's pretty standard up here. You can get a nice place for £150k and I've had friends that worked their way up from £80k to above this despite being on wages below the regional average. £350k+ will get you a substantial executive place around here but I bet that's a one bed flat down your way!

This is one reason I don't think this issue is solely about housing price, it's the massive increases down south. There are expensive areas in the north too in some cities but at least further out the prices drop.

So, when we hear about the young struggling to get onto the housing ladder it's those growing up in areas that have skyrocketed. Another reason why Eastenders is a few decades out of date with all those low paid jobs yet they buy their own places. :biggrin: Those houses in Corrie will be pretty cheap though.

[Hollow]

Hollow, thats an interesting perspective
Can you just fill me in a little more on what Usury? is

Usury is compound interest, it's the root cause of inflation and debt. Under this system people get into so much debt that they can't pay it back and in the olden days became literal slaves to the money lenders. Then, the only way to erase that debt was to find out where the money lenders lived and burn their houses down.

[MyNameIsTerry]

We seem to have polarised parties at the moment with May moving further right and Corbyn moving further left. It doesn't bode well when we have to choose between austerity and spending when it may be better to meet half way some how?

I'm not convinced over nationalisation. It's a huge drain and it wasn't the best when we had it. I started my last career just after privatisation of one industry and it was an utter mess. Going back to that doesn't sound good to me and I worked in various roles troubleshooting the mess so saw the massive failures to move forward. But then I'm not convinced austerity is right either. The NHS needs something substantial doing to it but I can't see that happening and there is the worrying agenda of privatisation to consider.

It's like we are being trapped between hardening austerity (and business mates doing well by the government) or massive risky spending.

---------- Post added at 15:14 ---------- Previous post was at 15:11 ----------


Usury is compound interest, it's the root cause of inflation and debt. Under this system people get into so much debt that they can't pay it back and in the olden days became literal slaves to the money lenders. Then, the only way to erase that debt was to find out where the money lenders lived and burn their houses down.

Or they broke your legs :winks:

[mezzaninedoor]

Usury is compound interest, it's the root cause of inflation and debt. Under this system people get into so much debt that they can't pay it back and in the olden days became literal slaves to the money lenders. Then, the only way to erase that debt was to find out where the money lenders lived and burn their houses down.

So Wonga and the like are huge exponents of the like.
Yes lines of Credit these days are very easy to get and very easy to get caught up in the pain of compound interest.

---------- Post added at 18:20 ---------- Previous post was at 18:13 ----------




I'm not convinced over nationalisation. It's a huge drain and it wasn't the best when we had it. I started my last career just after privatisation of one industry and it was an utter mess. [COLOR="blue"]


So my views as a bit of a Liberal Leftie on Nationalisation is that its not a one size fits all solution especially as re Nationalisation now isn't possible with every privatised national industry.

I think the Railways are worth focus as was proved by the East Coast line making a profit for the Treasury when it was in Government hands recently.

I think re Nationalising the Royal Mail would be a vanity project and isn't nessasary though I wouldn't have opened up the Mail as much as the last Government did. If Royal Mail has a virtual monopoly on the Letters side and you have rules in place about the service you should ensure that the service remains fairly consistent even in the sticks.

I think we need to keep privatisation away from the NHS at all costs and try and rollback some of the privatisations. Im not against Social Enterprise not for profits getting involved in some of the care provision itself but the back door privatisation has got to stop.

At the point we stop that then we can have the long hard national conversation about what we want the NHS to be and we can decide what the priorities are to be. You can prioritise with the NHS and Policing but everybody has to have an equal education.

Just some initial thoughts above.

Im undecided on nationalisation of the utilities because of the cost but I really do feel we never should have sold them off so that they ended up in International hands :/

[MyNameIsTerry]

If they nationalise rail I hope they keep it invested. I can remember a time when trains were very late, didn't turn up at all, carriages were dirty, etc. Since privatisation they are far better from my experience of commuting around the West Midlands, into several Yorkshire sites and Newcastle. I never went to London much but it was always swift.

The same with energy. When I was a child (more Hovis bread music playing :biggrin:) we had loads of power cuts. They are rare these days. And this sector is only expanding. Driverless cars will push it beyond capacity so they need to pay for that. And there are things like the Smart Metering projects which are money pits...and SM has been a joke since it's inception, as has Microgeneration, from my perspective working inside these projects.

Water never really privatised. The trouble with them is like in gas with transporters and electricity with distributors. It's very hard to get into the market. I can set up a distribution company very easily but what I can't do is have tons of workers, vans & equipment to do the work so would have to subcontract it all...straight back out to the original distributors who used to be the regional ones under nationalisation.

Plus the energy sector has always been a cartel. Large companies did less to grab customers and more to take over other energy companies. If you look at a company like Npower, that was their strategy for years. Then the market tried to shake it up bringing some small ones in again and the big fish just bought them out again! Now we have smaller ones coming back again so time will tell.

The energy sector is mostly moaned about because of pricing. Well done to Gordon Brown for removing Ofgem's control over pricing. And well done to Ed Milliband the first Minister for Energy, who did absolutely nothing then became leader to moan about the very sector he was in charge of before the Tories booted them out (but that's just the norm in politics really :winks:). Now Corbyn wants to bring prices down, which is good, but I wonder how we will pay for it all.

RM should be private as far as I'm concerned. They were coining it sitting back with a stranglehold. Their service was so often dire. They need a kick up the bum from private firms.

So, I wonder whether in some cases we need tighter regulation rather than full state control? Under the Tories that should be unachievable as it's against their ethos but it was under Labour in many respects too. Whether that is because Blair was basically Tory Lite is one thing but is Corbyn going too far?

The NHS I would love to remain as is. I bet the wish they kept the cottage hospitals open now? We still have one near me but it's been stripped by both the last Labour government and the later Tory ones. Blair shafted our local cottage hospitals and mental health was worse under him (bizarrely).

What do you make of European public health systems? We tend to only get threatened with the prospect of a US style system, which I'm against, but countries like Germany have these independent underwriting policies and their healthcare is said to be better than ours.

The NHS has greatly grown but isn't it part of end-to-end? Social healthcare should probably be part of it as it's a disaster as a private sector, isn't it? And social care is blocking the NHS, but part of that is like the cottage hospitals and other community based programmes such as the mental health stay-in places that have gone too under both parties. If they strip out the NHS, will they start stripping people like us out?

[Hollow]

The Amazon worker: paid £18,000 a year to shift 250 items an hour

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/jan/20/amazon-worker-warehouse

I have to put away each item in 15 seconds or less, and get through 250 in an hour, or I’ll be given a warning by a manager. Stepping away from my station to, say, get a drink of water can have a big impact on my performance.

During my half-hour breaks I rush downstairs to have something to eat. It’s stressful – and it definitely affects my health, standing up for hours on end. I worry I may pass out if I don’t rest during my meal breaks. I’ve lost a lot of weight since I started.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTFd0ejF7N4i8W8akE3kaTNJ7xusb2wl ejH-S6t9NugA-W4AF8YpA

[mezzaninedoor]

The amazon worker profile is really really saddening.
Amazon really do want to do everything for bottom dollar and I guess if we use Amazon we are culpable.

[MyNameIsTerry]

The amazon worker profile is really really saddening.
Amazon really do want to do everything for bottom dollar and I guess if we use Amazon we are culpable.

It's not new though.

I worked in call centres when I left education as a young man and they were target mad. If you were on the phone more than 3 minutes a manager came over and told you to hang up. Upon explaining you hadn't resolved the issue you were told tough customer should ring back.

If you didn't hit your targets, you got monitored and lost the bonuses they started adding to contracts to avoid proper pay levels. If you didn't improve, you faced disciplinary action.

15 years later as a manager myself I'm in a large corporate that loved shifting the targets up & up into unachievable levels.

But then both my brother (9 years older than me) and my dad have similar stories.

Part of my roles have been performance management and you can perform the R&R studies but ultimately there has to be a willingness to consider we are not robots and productivity changes even throughout the day. Places like Amazon & Sports Direct are pushing too hard for profit over people but when you start importing a foreign workforce that area used to far worse, I guess we've (FOM EU) made it easier for big business to side step unions?

[mezzaninedoor]

Its interesting that Ive been in a Union for the last 30 years but as a Senior in the workforce I have not been represented by my Union for 20 years now, they only represent clerical grades.

We took targets out of the Call Centres and guess what they do better without the targets as they concentrate on TCF and we get a much better retention rate