View Full Version : Why don't people want to get better and do all they can to achieve it?
nomorepanic
02-02-18, 23:37
I am curious as to why a lot of people don't seem to want to get better or do anything proactive to achieve it?
I am talking about all the self-help stuff that is available and all the advice I have written on the website articles (how many people actually read them??)
When I was acute with anxiety and panic attacks I would go home from work every lunch time and listen to a relaxation tape and read a book about panic attacks. I didn't have the internet then to look things up and get help!
I then got help via CBT and had to work hard at that too.
We offer all sorts of advice on here to get better but I am not sure how many people actually bother to do anything.
There are all the tips on the website pages and of course we recommend CBT4PANIC that is FREE.
Day after day I see members post in despair but they don't seem to want to do anything to get over the issues and I don't understand why not?
There are also CBT referrals that can be done via your GP to get help that way.
Whilst this forum can offer support and advice and sympathy we cannot make you better unless you put the work in.
It just seems that some people want to post over and over about issues (especially HA sufferers) but don't seem so keen on actually helping themselves to get better.
Just wanted to ask the question anyway.
Catherine S
02-02-18, 23:43
I for one agree with everything you've said Nicola, and for those who are trying to help, it's exhausting giving advice that's constantly ignored.
Cath x
nomorepanic
02-02-18, 23:46
I get frustrated as I wrote the website articles to help people but does anyone bother to read them?
http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/articles
venusbluejeans
02-02-18, 23:46
To be honest I completely agree with you.
You can see the people who are proactive and really do want to feel better.
but there are also those who post on here with the same issues time after time and sometimes the issue has been going on for years as they have been posting the same thing for year.
It also doesn't always have to be people with HA either that seem to be stuck in the rutt and seem to have resigned themselves to the fact their life is always going to be like this..... it happens on many of the subforums
I am so looking forward to the day I can go back to work again.... and my life can begin again properly but definitely some people don't seem to be like that
MyNameIsTerry
03-02-18, 02:52
I wouldn't assume they don't or aren't trying. How many times has someone said "get therapy" for the OP to reply they are already in it?
I would be careful in judging people without knowing the facts first. It's not so simple and we've only got to look at some of the people on here who are going through very difficult med changes to see how they are struggling yet are in care.
For me, I struggle with avoidance and always have. I'm much better than I was but it's an ongoing job and there is no real support other than 10 minute chats with a GP who hasn't got the time. Beyond that it's private or charities really. I could fight to get into the CMHT and wait a year but my GP is unwilling to refer and I'm not sure it will do more than the support groups could for me anyway unless I want to have med reviews with a psychiatrist.
Therefore I apply a stones & glass houses view. I'm not doing everything I could but I'm not going to judge others either.
I did CBT. It didn't work. I was really bad back then and not ready. I found things that helped me and kept going. And I learnt a lot more about CBT outside of therapy through the local charity and my own reading. I look back and see I had more a form of long term self help than real CBT. Yhe level I accessed was beyond CBT4PANIC (bearing in mind this course isn't actually able to sit on the NICE Stepped Care Model as it's unsupported) so if I couldn't engage in it with a person there is no way that would have done anything for me but I would have learned a lot more from in terms of what CBT is as it's more open to CBT as a therapy than it is the IAPT strip down for political reasons.
Also worth remembering CBT4PANIC, per Robin's own words, isn't for OCD. But I think anyone no matter what disorder would learn a great deal. I was very impressed to see it go beyond merely exposure work into the cognitive restructuring side, the latter seems to be greatly lacking with IAPT.
I don't think it's that people don't want to get better, it's more that it's very hard and seems too hard. That's why micro goals are so important so start getting a foot over the line. Some people with physical illness will refuse to confront it and accept the hard journey they will go on yet I don't believe they want to suffer either.
I agree with you, Terry, but I must say that there is a small, but very vocal group of people on here whose anxiety has developed into their main source of attention. Why get better when you get more attention being sick? I think for our mods, this small group can be quite annoying to have to deal with constantly.
MyNameIsTerry
03-02-18, 05:08
I was going to rewrite that but I'll leave it there since Vee has commented.
I think there are many reasons why it can be hard to get help for a sufferer and some that spring to mind are:
- when you are so ill you are struggling just to wash each day, getting help is just too big. I think you need support in real life. For me, when I was like this, having parents who told me they would take me to my GP got the ball rolling. It also set a deadline I couldn't push back and I think we need these.
- someone so ill they are sectioned is just beyond things right now. They have a long journey ahead and need specialist care to almost take it out of their hands until they can take over that responsibility.
- meds. There is a marked change in some on here once they get some med help. Conversely, see the mess those who've just withdrawn for a switch are in. Straight back down the snake to the bottom of the board. There are two such people right now I've spoken to going through this after poor drug advice from psychiatrists ("there won't be a withdrawal on this med" contrary to the drug databases :doh:) who are having a massive wobble.
But thinking of repetitive posters we have one very good example of how getting onto the minimum therapeutic dose of a SSRI completely changed their behaviour on here. They rarely post now. So, that could be the case for others where the obsessive nature of their disorder is too strong?
- it's not just about anxiety. It's about things like personality, how emotional or cold the person may be anyway, etc. It's a whole spectrum of things that make us all unique and change how a standard set of diagnosis criteria differ outside of the lab.
Going back to my management days we had some who needed more reassurance that they were doing well or the right thing whereas others were much more self assured & independent. Then you load an anxiety disorder on top of all that and it takes these traits and warps them into something much greater.
Since I'm not a reassurance seeker, you just won't know how I'm doing because I don't feel the need to tell you. If I need help I can post but I've got friends on PM I can talk to if I need them. I did a lot of my talking in CBT and a whole year of weekly walk-in sessions and it gets to a point where you just think "this is borrriiiinnngggg!!!" so stop yourself bothering as it's the same old stuff you are saying as these disorders can take a load of time to change.
I think you have to be open minded, try not to assume, and allow a certain emotional distance. The latter is important or the frustration takes hold but I understand how it's harder when your anxiety is worse as I'm better than I was at the beginning (so, a bit of open mindedness is needed with those that get frustrated until you know why).
The forum is more about those reassurance seekers so it follows it's what you are going to see. The quiet people like me can still be struggling but we don't need to talk as much and chances are, many of us know what we need to do and that it's on us to do it for ourselves but struggle with that as it's the nature of the beast.
Fight or flight wants to protect us. If it thinks getting help is a possible threat, you've got yourself an extra problem. Think about an agoraphobic (and this does happen) being told they have to attend face-to-face therapy at a location when they are struggling just to get out of the house. That's therapy set up to fail straight away. :doh:
So, some are running back & forth to docs but not all. Some HAers are terrified of going to them. But then so are some like me for other reasons. I needed that push from my parents to get me into that surgery because my anxiety revolves a lot around change & uncertainly. Any change to a daily routine and up goes the anxiety. It reinforces that going to see a therapist is a risk .
So, whilst it's perhaps not said, I often wonder whether that is an issue for those who appear in denial?
I also remember how bad I was with my OCD at fever pitch. I spent a good year doing the same things every day. Nothing else mattered. I would expose myself to a GP appointment or therapy, which caused more anxiety as it broke my routine, and then slipped straight back into it all the next day.
---------- Post added at 05:08 ---------- Previous post was at 05:05 ----------
I agree with you, Terry, but I must say that there is a small, but very vocal group of people on here whose anxiety has developed into their main source of attention. Why get better when you get more attention being sick? I think for our mods, this small group can be quite annoying to have to deal with constantly.
Yes, I would not discount this being a reason too. But I do think it's too easily determined due to past bias.
I guess we also have to be mindful of things like personality disorders. We know some on here with them but who knows about the rest. Some may have traits that mean they seek more attention.
WiseMonkey
03-02-18, 06:10
Hi Terry,
Great post, thoughtfully written.
For those people who only have occasional HA, there may be another reason why they don't pursue therapy. After suffering through a bout of HA over an illness, they get tested, which proves to be negative and then they are on a big high, feeling wonderful and grateful and then either forget about things or see themselves as cured so don't bother to take therapy. (I know I've been guilty of this)!!
Also in some smaller countries with low populations, CBT therapies are very expensive and not subsidized. It's like this in New Zealand. The government (through the Family Court) gives you 6 free counselling sessions when your marriage ends (and you've got children) but not for CBT !!
We do have Men's & Women's centres, which do general counselling but none that I've come across have trained CBT's. These centres are very good and you pay according to what you earn.
I did a 12 week course about anxiety but it didn't help me at all :( I'm looking forward to reading the book I've ordered about HA :)
MyNameIsTerry
03-02-18, 06:48
Thanks Lesley,
That's a very good point. Some of the HAers seem to have months between flare ups. I've always been a daily GADer so I can't help thinking "you lucky sod" when I read about that but the grass is always greener as they say.
It sounds like things are really tough in NZ.
WiseMonkey
03-02-18, 07:32
It sounds like things are really tough in NZ.
NZ is a beautiful clean, green country but we only have a population of 4.5 million and 1.5 of those live in Auckland (our biggest city). It has a very good welfare system, but when it comes to mental health issues, government resources are unfortunately lacking. Even private medical insurance, doesn't cover mental health treatment (therapy or counselling)
ps, Yep, I'm glad I only have infrequent bouts of HA, but dealing with CFS is an ongoing challenge. Luckily I don't have this severely :)
I agree with you, Terry, but I must say that there is a small, but very vocal group of people on here whose anxiety has developed into their main source of attention. Why get better when you get more attention being sick? I think for our mods, this small group can be quite annoying to have to deal with constantly.
I presume it is to this set of people that Nic is referring though? Yes there could be personality disorders involved here but sometimes it is just a need for attention and a desire to be seen as helpless.
I have a few thoughts too (don't I always lol) and I've been thinking about this the last week a fair amount; The big 'WHY' question that starts off this thread?
There are thousands of people who read here, you come on sometimes and see the numbers reading and its loads. However, there are a few people who are serial posters and you just never get through to, years later and they seem unable to take the first steps..
So.....
Self-help doesn't work for everyone, it isn't possible by everyone (essentially this forum is a self-help arena). The thought processes of these individuals are so ingrained, so deep that they require professional treatment. Who knows why some people can ascribe to self-help and others can't, but we are all different. Personally, I gave up smoking with the Allan Carr book years ago, that was all I needed.....others go to groups, have patches and still don't manage it.
Amongst the thousands reading here, many ARE getting the support they need. Those who read the articles are those who already have the courage, mental attitude and ability to some extent, and patterns of thinking, to take responsibility for their own well-being. Maybe they have higher motivational levels? Maybe they are optimists? Maybe, maybe, maybe some people get to the level of acceptance of HA as their problem and some just don't....(I'm refering here to all those individual differences in human beings) Whatever the reasons are, they aren't the ones shouting out loud...and they are somewhat invisible. So, admin, don't feel frustrated or despondent, your advice is heeded by the majority who reach out. On these pages you will see the most severe of mental health problems alongside the most 'minor' (not sure what term to use here, as everyone suffers in their own way), and that needs to be recognised.
Like Terry, I think we need to be careful as to how we categorise those individuals who are the serial posters resistant to advice and guidance. I feel that there are a variety of mental health issues possibly taking place at once, we see evidence in the form of HA, but given a true professional diagnosis there may be many other issues. I don't want to list things that come into my head, but I feel we see the tip of iceberg here.
So, with all the above in mind, what to do about 'the vocal minority'....unfortunately for admin :scared15: there needs to be strategy. A clear policy that guides replies. I don't think that banning or removing people is the right thing, as we can't make our own assumptions about 'why this person is behaving as they do', only a mental health professional can do that. The (educated) policy that admin adopts, in my opinion, must be adopted by other posters on the thread to create consistency and although I know it presents a real headache maybe one individual in the admin team can take reponsibility on a daily basis for the 'named individuals' and clearly state on the thread the type of response that is required from other posters. We have all seen that arguments, frustration and anger arise on the threads of some specific individuals, and its easy to see why that happens, I know I've felt it myself, but some people seem unable to avoid the thread despite knowing it makes them cross so they need to be told to leave posting on that thread ! I have seen over the course of the last few weeks an underlying strategy developing amongst the admin team, so stick with it guys !
Right, I'm not sure that answers anything really....but...seeing as we are being open to discussion....:D
Once again Terry's posts hit the nail on the head!
For me i've tried many life changes, CBT twice, no alcohol, no caffiene, no MSG and saw a friend of the family every week for two years who was an ex mental health nurse. When all this started for me i was badly let down by my GP who never offered me the correct treatment soon enough. The NHS is severely lacking in offering treatments and just chuck pills at people at first which is NOT the answer but probably the cheapest option.
I go through stages when i feel ok, then out of the blue for not much of a reason i'm in that horrid severe anxiety mode again. But i WILL beat it!
This is a excellent thread all round Nic :) I too have thought this and while there can be many factors why some members seem to sit on their symptoms I know my self what it is like to be pushed from pillar to post and fobbed off but I have had to keep going to make any head way Its like with me I joined a 12 step programme which has been great I stopped going guess what I feel rough again why cause I stopped using the services so I am going to go back and get in to it again :) And while I don't believe no one on here cant get better there are some that wont sadly this is evident on here:weep: ATB
The title of this thread kind of reads like " pull yourself together and get some help " but I guess it's not meant in that way , we all have different stories on how we ended up here and none of us truly know what's going on in someone else's head he who knows what they have seen and experienced in life to bring them to their mental state .
I was a stressed and tired man so I thought I need help , a trip to the docs and packet of pills , ten days later I was hallucinating , crying , banging my head and didn't believe the world around me existed , needless to say I wasn't popping home from work and booking cbt I was sitting on the edge of a chair for weeks not eating or sleeping , eventually after several family disasters again I thought I need help and booked cbt , while in the middle of cbt my partner took an overdose which put the idea firmly in my head if I go to cbt there's a chance someone may be dead when I get home ( which has happened) .
I have reasons for putting of cbt and never taking meds again doesn't mean I don't want to get better and very much doubt anyone would enjoy being like this but this is a mental health website so who knows it takes all sorts .
I think it was Homer Simpson said " The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome " now ,who's mad the one posting for reassurance or the one who keeps replying expecting them to suddenly accept the advice ? .
You can't help everyone , some of us are too broken , stick the pieces together and it will hold for while but cracks are still there .
Or maybe not time will tell :D
I wish we had the technology in my younger days when I was really ill. I had no choice. I was not able to get out of bed. I had to send my girls round to a neighbours to get them ready for school. I remember my sister and her husband taking me to their house in my nightwear and the doctor coming to their house to see me. The doctors surgery was nearby. ( no telephones in those days) This sort of thing does not happen now. It was very frightening. There was no one to talk to.
I still panic about things and get anxious but here is my safety net.
Although I use private messaging sometimes.
Mindprison
03-02-18, 19:24
I believe there is a reasonable amount of luck involved. There are some sufferers who respond well to the first medication they take, while it might take others years to find something that agrees with them.
The same can be said for therapy and psychological help. You could get lucky and be seen in a few months or you might be in a bad area and wait a year. By that point you're worse off than when you started. And then there's the chance that the treatment doesn't resonate with you or you don't get on with the therapist/psychiatrist and now you've found you've wasted a year and are no further forward.
USA has the problem of needing to pay for medical treatment unless you have insurance. The UK has the problem of NHS waiting lists being long in most areas and in my case (Scotland) not having IAPT as a failsafe.
I don't doubt there are people who do it for attention, but I think it's unfair to say that people aren't trying. If their anxiety or mental disorder is resistant to treatment then it's not surprising they will seek reassurance for even a small moment's respite. Especially if the treatment has a long waiting list or is requiring trial and error swapping all these different medications.
It's obvious that reassurance seeking is not healthy in the long term, but many of them probably feel like they don't know where else to turn to.
I wish I could just flip a switch and turn my anxiety off. I want to be the person I was 2 years ago again, I hate being anxious all day every day. Does it mean i'm not trying? No, i'm trying my best but it's never a straight path to recovery, some paths have more obstacles than others.
Even psychologists recognise that CBT won't help everyone, especially those with an entrenched anxiety disorder spanning decades. I just think it's very important that we all look after our mental health as best we can because no one else will, particularly people on here who frustrate us with their online behaviours.
There is such a lot more help out there today but it's not available for everyone with more complex problems.
I have never thought that the most vocal group of posters are the most severe-they just have the most presence and inevitably get the most attention whether negative or positive
nomorepanic
03-02-18, 20:14
What I was trying to say - perhaps I said it wrongly - is that there is help out there but some people don't seem to want to use it.
I suggest things to some posters who completely ignore my reply and come back with another list of symptoms. They don't reply and say thanks but I tried that and it didn't work.
I am not saying that there is one cure for everyone but sometimes simple things help - like the suggestions on the" How to cope" website page. The "Health Anxiety" website page is really good as well. I would read every book I could on anxiety when I was at my worst and accept any help that was given.
It is as though some people don't want to get well as then part of their life is over. I remember reading a post some time ago by someone that said they were scared to get better as anxiety was part of their life and they didn't know how they would cope if it was gone.
I was not having a go at anyone - I was trying to understand why you wouldn't do everything you could to get better and if someone suggested something then why not try it. If it doesn't work then try the next thing but try something at least.
What I was trying to say - perhaps I said it wrongly - is that there is help out there but some people don't seem to want to use it.
I suggest things to some posters who completely ignore my reply and come back with another list of symptoms. They don't reply and say thanks but I tried that and it didn't work.
I am not saying that there is one cure for everyone but sometimes simple things help - like the suggestions on the" How to cope" website page. The "Health Anxiety" website page is really good as well. I would read every book I could on anxiety when I was at my worst and accept any help that was given.
It is as though some people don't want to get well as then part of their life is over. I remember reading a post some time ago by someone that said they were scared to get better as anxiety was part of their life and they didn't know how they would cope if it was gone.
I was not having a go at anyone - I was trying to understand why you wouldn't do everything you could to get better and if someone suggested something then why not try it. If it doesn't work then try the next thing but try something at least. Agreed 1000% on what you say Nic:yesyes: ATB
I was trying to understand why you wouldn't do everything you could to get better and if someone suggested something then why not try it. If it doesn't work then try the next thing but try something at least.
All the points made are valid. What you said here is important. So many here have what I call "What If?" syndrome. Sadly, the biggest regrets in life are the chances you never take due the fear of "What If?".
Positive thoughts
Its complex, and all the responders here have given a different perspective on why they think this is the case....it has been a very interesting read actually.
With regard to HA, you have to have got to the acceptance phase I think that it even IS HA, before you become open to looking at other resources and trying to help yourself. Some people, it seems, have trouble getting to that phase, and are still entirely convinced there is a physical issue. I think the resistance will remain for some people, even if the most ardent therapist spent hours with them at the first meeting. I think a few people posting on the HA forum, think it is a forum to use because they have ill health that makes them anxious, rather than anxiety causing them to imagine serious ill health. Did that make sense? I know what I mean, they are still giving credence to the physical feelings above everything else. When you ask questions you expect the same logic in reply, but that logic doesn't exist in the OP.
I believe there is a reasonable amount of luck involved. There are some sufferers who respond well to the first medication they take, while it might take others years to find something that agrees with them.
The same can be said for therapy and psychological help. You could get lucky and be seen in a few months or you might be in a bad area and wait a year. By that point you're worse off than when you started. And then there's the chance that the treatment doesn't resonate with you or you don't get on with the therapist/psychiatrist and now you've found you've wasted a year and are no further forward.
USA has the problem of needing to pay for medical treatment unless you have insurance. The UK has the problem of NHS waiting lists being long in most areas and in my case (Scotland) not having IAPT as a failsafe.
I don't doubt there are people who do it for attention, but I think it's unfair to say that people aren't trying. If their anxiety or mental disorder is resistant to treatment then it's not surprising they will seek reassurance for even a small moment's respite. Especially if the treatment has a long waiting list or is requiring trial and error swapping all these different medications.
It's obvious that reassurance seeking is not healthy in the long term, but many of them probably feel like they don't know where else to turn to.
I wish I could just flip a switch and turn my anxiety off. I want to be the person I was 2 years ago again, I hate being anxious all day every day. Does it mean i'm not trying? No, i'm trying my best but it's never a straight path to recovery, some paths have more obstacles than others. Yeah so true dude :shades: but have noticed on the odd occasion when a specific website to do with their problems is posted, they still don't aknowledge and have a look which is so annoying to the person who is trying to help them. ATB
Mindprison
03-02-18, 21:04
I think when it comes down to it there are no right or wrong answers here. It is extremely important to talk about these issues though as multiple perspectives are more often than not the key to understanding, both for the poster and for the ones offering advice.
It's easy to become frustrated when someone is refusing to acknowledge helpful advice not only from yourself but from others too. I agree with FMP and also believe that "what if?" And "all or nothing" ways of thinking are to blame for that. For the sufferer, any risk no matter how small is too much for them to take.
I am talking about all the self-help stuff that is available and all the advice I have written on the website articles (how many people actually read them??)
There are all the tips on the website pages and of course we recommend CBT4PANIC that is FREE.
Perhaps having the tips, articles and posting etiquette posts as stickies pinned to the top on the relevant sub-forums with a "PLEASE READ" may help.
How many posts are there with a list of symptoms that are all on the symptoms page? Or questions about IBS etc. Also, the point about not posting multiple threads on the same subject could be part of that "PLEASE READ" category.
Positive thoughts
It is as though some people don't want to get well as then part of their life is over. I remember reading a post some time ago by someone that said they were scared to get better as anxiety was part of their life and they didn't know how they would cope if it was gone.
These are the people I was referring to...and Terry was saying might have personality disorders. Nic, you can't let these kind of people get you down. They would give any therapist a career for years.
Perhaps having the tips, articles and posting etiquette posts as stickies pinned to the top on the relevant sub-forums with a "PLEASE READ" may help.
How many posts are there with a list of symptoms that are all on the symptoms page? Or questions about IBS etc. Also, the point about not posting multiple threads on the same subject could be part of that "PLEASE READ" category.
Positive thoughts That's a excellent idea Fishmanpa :) ATB t
MyNameIsTerry
04-02-18, 06:30
Even psychologists recognise that CBT won't help everyone, especially those with an entrenched anxiety disorder spanning decades. I just think it's very important that we all look after our mental health as best we can because no one else will, particularly people on here who frustrate us with their online behaviours.
There is such a lot more help out there today but it's not available for everyone with more complex problems.
I have never thought that the most vocal group of posters are the most severe-they just have the most presence and inevitably get the most attention whether negative or positive
Yes, and what quality is the CBT? 6 sessions with a newbie or a year with a psychologist? IAPT is a triage to me.
I agree about the most vocal not necessarily being the worst and it has frustrated me when I've seen people saying someone must be really ill because they post so many times on a forum. People post more a day on the Big Brother forums.
Engaging in obsessive-compulsive cycles longer is one way they judge OCD to determine Mild, Moderate or Severe, but it's not the only thing. Someone can post on there loads and be working, have an active social life and be going on holidays. Then you have someone who rarely posts who drinks daily, lives in their bedroom and is attended on by a loved one (yes, we have had people like this very sadly). Who is the more severe there? It's a no brainer.
---------- Post added at 06:30 ---------- Previous post was at 02:44 ----------
Once again Terry's posts hit the nail on the head!
For me i've tried many life changes, CBT twice, no alcohol, no caffiene, no MSG and saw a friend of the family every week for two years who was an ex mental health nurse. When all this started for me i was badly let down by my GP who never offered me the correct treatment soon enough. The NHS is severely lacking in offering treatments and just chuck pills at people at first which is NOT the answer but probably the cheapest option.
I go through stages when i feel ok, then out of the blue for not much of a reason i'm in that horrid severe anxiety mode again. But i WILL beat it!
Cheers Matt! :biggrin:
Very interesting to read various viewpoints & stories of people on this thread.
has frustrated me when I've seen people saying someone must be really ill because they post so many times on a forum.That's a very good point, I've said it myself.
We only have a snapshot here and have no idea what is happening behind the 10 minutes on this forum, or who is affected and how. You are right, it doesn't mean they are 'suffering' more than someone else, but I think when people say 'severe' they mean that the evidence on the forum makes them appear in constant spiral....that certainly does seem more severe. I am only referring to HA here by the way Terry, as someone who has been there myself in my past, I can see who is 'unreachable with logic' and they have gone too far to be reached by the forum members. (hence admin asking the question - why won't they listen- I am surprised at the question as this must have been seen constantly over the years)
I have found this thread really interesting too, and reading the stories of others has been really thought provoking.
(Look who is replying here.....on this thread.....as expected nobody who is so deep in the state of spiral)
These people are only interested in themselves though but expect others to respond to their cries for help immediately. Let us hope that they are not this self-centred in real life and it is just an internet behaviour to get instant attention.
My own experience of getting help is that you need to realise there's a problem before you can get help. I know someone whose anxiety was so bad that they were a danger to themselves, and I think that in some ways made me feel I wasn't "bad enough" to get help for a while. But eventually I realised how it was impacting my life, and in fact you need help way before you get to that stage. I tried self-help first, but when you're in a state it's not always easy to have the motivation and mind state to keep this going, so I realised I needed outside help. In England, at least, it's easy to start the ball rolling when you make this decision, even if you get a long wait and what you get isn't perfect for everyone. It's not so easy elsewhere I appreciate.
As for why people on here never seek help, it's something I've wondered a lot. I think as others have said we don't always see a true version of how people really are. There are people who, if they were really thinking and acting exactly how they portray themselves here, wouldn't be able to function in the real world yet manage to hold down pretty full lives. Partly that's because we only see a biased version of them when they're in a panic, but there is certainly some amount of dishonesty going on sometimes. We can only help people who are being honest to us.
Something I've been guilty of is as I learn to understand my own anxiety, thinking I can understand other people more than I can. Yes, the patterns of how health anxiety play out are tediously similar in nearly everyone. But their mental drivers for that are very different. I think I understand GAD quite well now, but I don't understand the OCD, personality disorders (and maybe learning difficulties sometimes) at play that mean it's hard to understand motives for posting, and their inability to take advice.
This is why I think some posters are in some ways game-playing to keep discussion about them and their pet illness subjects going. If they're not here for reassurance, and they're not here for advice to get better, why are they here? They're not here for us to talk them out of thinking they're ill, but here to talk us into thinking of them as ill. The old "Well when I get my terriying diagnosis and prove you wrong you'll all have egg on your faces!" routine. That's something I don't understand.
So to answer the question I think it's a mix of self-denial, practical issues, and for some posters the fact that the motive for posting on here are less straightforward than "I'm not doing well and want to get better". That's not accusing anyone of "trolling" at all, just that there is a whole jumble of mental health issues at play that can end up manifesting as a mundane health anxiety post.
What we have to do is be better at stop taking the bait with these posters once we see a pattern forming, which I'm as guilty of as anyone, because while people almost always have good intentions it's not good for anyone. What we certainly need to do is get less frustrated when people don't take advice, and just walk away from threads if they start to head in that direction. I think there's been a big moderation drive over the last few weeks to swerve this from a "tell me I haven't got cancer" forum to one that's focused more on mental health as it should be, and I commend that.
What we have to do is be better at stop taking the bait with these posters once we see a pattern forming, which I'm as guilty of as anyone, because while people almost always have good intentions it's not good for anyone. What we certainly need to do is get less frustrated when people don't take advice, and just walk away from threads if they start to head in that direction. I think there's been a big moderation drive over the last few weeks to swerve this from a "tell me I haven't got cancer" forum to one that's focused more on mental health as it should be, and I commend that.
Yep, I agree. I'm not good with walking away either. :D
It's the bait-dangling technique which sucks people in..but it's not helpful to anyone to respond.
It's the bait-dangling technique which sucks people in..but it's not helpful to anyone to respond. It is pulisa and yes I have made that mistake many times, but now use a different approach if we all did this then the few that do constantly seek reassurance (which we know is not healthy for the poster(s)) should hopefully get the message I have seen in where some members will come on and oh just one more question which often leads to other questions and again is seeking reassurance a reply will come like No you have asked that before etc I will second it and agree then a 3rd poster will reassure it really doesn't help the OP one bit and the cycle begins all over this cycle has to be broken first I believe before any progress can be made :) But again a excellent thread ATB
My own experience of getting help is that you need to realise there's a problem before you can get help.
What we have to do is be better at stop taking the bait with these posters once we see a pattern forming
True but.... Someone intentionally searching out an internet forum about anxiety instead of their illness du jour surely is an indication that they know deep down they're suffering from anxiety right? :shrug: Heck, that's how I came to find NMP as there were HA sufferers constantly posting on the H&N cancer forum I was part of during my illness. I followed several members to this site and found they had a long history of imaginary illnesses.
I believe part of it is that it's way easier to ask for a reassurance fix than it is to tackle the real problem. Those who have worked their rear ends off in therapy and use meds to help manage their anxiety know this full well and those are most of the posters we see replying with great advice and fact driven reassurance as opposed to tea and sympathy. My point is validated by a recent poster that said they were here just for reassurance, not for tips to get better :shrug:
That's where that final point about being better at recognizing the patterns and stepping away comes in and I'm guilty of being sucked in along with many others. While we would like to think we can help everyone, sadly that's not the case. There are members here that run the gamut from mild to sectioned several times. As was said, we only get a small window into their thoughts and life. But yes, restraint is sometimes necessary and sometimes, no response is better for the OP than continually trying to make them see the light of day. Finally, the direction admin is taking is a positive one IMO.
Positive thoughts
Fishman your idea about putting " please read " is a good one but flawed because it came from someone who is rational ( and sane :D) with health anxiety if we go to Dr Google and the first thing says it could be anxiety or stress we skip to the worst case scenario imminent death from terminal in growing toe nail ( that's not a thing ) the sticky should read " Do not read trigger warning , this is very very bad " anyone with anxiety will be drawn like a moth to the flame only to be disappointed it wasn't bad , please read would be like terms and conditions never read , how many of us see trigger warnings and still read on only to think wish I hadn't read that ?
I can understand if someone is in a bad way with genuine ha why they would keep posting the symptoms can seem so real excruciating pain moving from one part of the body to another , cold limbs , pins and needles , blurred vision , why the hell would your own mind play these tricks on you ?
I sell on eBay and I have to deal with people who cannot leave an argument alone they will keep on as long as you reply even if they are in the wrong some enjoy it , it's hard but I've learnt you have to ignore them even if they make threats , as long as you keep adding fuel the fire keeps burning .
As for me I've read many links that people have put up on here as I'm sure many do and when my partner is in better health I will be self referring again for treatment for ptsd , try and stick some of the pieces together again , right now the stressors and problems are very real so it would be wasted .
Take care fellow looney toons :hugs:
I read some of your articles Nicola.
I think people just want a quick fix. Telling someone about your symptoms and having them reassure you that they don’t fit whatever disease you fear at the time is a quick fix. And like a drug the effects are very temporary and quickly wear off resulting in the need for another quick fix, hence the repetitive threads.
I am probably one of the least patient people here but I truly don’t think people post here for attention. They post to get their quick fix. Anyone who is recovered or is well on the road to recovery knows that therapy is the answer. Therapy isn’t a quick fix though, it is bloody hard work. It certainly isn’t going to achieve what those repetitive posters desire. That is instant reassurance.
So when they come up with all their weak excuses for not seeking therapy I just think they are lazy.
I don’t agree with all the decisions the mods make but restricting those repetitive thread starters to one thread is one of the best decision I have seen the mods make. You couldn’t pay me to be a mod.
---------- Post added at 20:17 ---------- Previous post was at 20:10 ----------
Fish there is more wisdom in this one post than there is on the whole board. It is absolutely correct. I had severe HA and it wasn’t until I recovered that I could see it. You have never had HA but you see it clearly. Therein somewhere lies the explanation as to why people with HA lack the ability to see how off their perception is.
---------- Post added at 20:18 ---------- Previous post was at 20:17 ----------
I believe part of it is that it's way easier to ask for a reassurance fix than it is to tackle the real problem. Those who have worked their rear ends off in therapy and use meds to help manage their anxiety know this full well and those are most of the posters we see replying with great advice and fact driven reassurance as opposed to tea and sympathy. My point is validated by a recent poster that said they were here just for reassurance, not for tips to get better
This is what I was referring to lol
Angleterre
22-02-18, 15:08
Tbh I didn’t know about this help so I’m glad you posted this comment because I’ve now just started in the NMP CBT help page so I’m very grateful to you for helping me to help myself xx
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I am curious as to why a lot of people don't seem to want to get better or do anything proactive to achieve it?
I am talking about all the self-help stuff that is available and all the advice I have written on the website articles (how many people actually read them??)
When I was acute with anxiety and panic attacks I would go home from work every lunch time and listen to a relaxation tape and read a book about panic attacks. I didn't have the internet then to look things up and get help!
I then got help via CBT and had to work hard at that too.
We offer all sorts of advice on here to get better but I am not sure how many people actually bother to do anything.
There are all the tips on the website pages and of course we recommend CBT4PANIC that is FREE.
Day after day I see members post in despair but they don't seem to want to do anything to get over the issues and I don't understand why not?
There are also CBT referrals that can be done via your GP to get help that way.
Whilst this forum can offer support and advice and sympathy we cannot make you better unless you put the work in.
It just seems that some people want to post over and over about issues (especially HA sufferers) but don't seem so keen on actually helping themselves to get better.
Just wanted to ask the question anyway.
I think you should have dup of this post in HA Forum :shades:
MyNameIsTerry
18-03-18, 02:43
Perhaps some consideration needs to be given to what NMP is these days? I don't know what it was like years ago but have seen older members say there was les of this.
Maybe the shift in customer base skews what you see? Without making a comparison to a similar forum it is then hard to understand as to whether it's more about specific disorders which now dwarf the rest on here or people?
I've long thought those prone to reassurance seeking will sign up to multiple forums to chase it. As they lose the support of one, they head off to another. So, there is a churn of people trapped in cycles and those getting better disappear leaving a greater % of those who aren't.
Perhaps some consideration needs to be given to what NMP is these days? I don't know what it was like years ago but have seen older members say there was les of this.
Maybe the shift in customer base skews what you see? Without making a comparison to a similar forum it is then hard to understand as to whether it's more about specific disorders which now dwarf the rest on here or people?
I've long thought those prone to reassurance seeking will sign up to multiple forums to chase it. As they lose the support of one, they head off to another. So, there is a churn of people trapped in cycles and those getting better disappear leaving a greater % of those who aren't. I Think you are right on this :) And your whole post is spot on, I also believe people ill or not don't like change (I know I don't) so what's the difference in a member for eg having HA for say the past 10 years but is stuck in the loop? None imho. So great post Terry ;) ATB
Just an observation...
There's so much fear and negativity that anything positive is pushed aside or quickly buried as new fears and worries are posted. Look at all the great resources and advice here and then look at how many actually use it :shrug:
The forum in most cases, actually reinforces negative thinking and behavior. It's much easier to sit at a computer and seek reassurance than it is to tackle the real problem. Too many use it as an alternative to seeking real life help.
So while there is a positive in knowing you're not alone in your struggles and it can be cathartic in writing out your thoughts, it's not and never will be a replacement for real life help. That's why I'm always pushing that point.
FMP
Just an observation...
So while there is a positive in knowing you're not alone in your struggles and it can be cathartic in writing out your thoughts, it's not and never will be a replacement for real life help. That's why I'm always pushing that point.
FMP
Agreed. 100% ^^^
I think the reason that we've seen the shift in negativity in this forum is because the vast majority of posts are from people who haven't gotten any or very little real life help. In the past, I think the forum was filled with posts from people who were seeking help, and used the forum in addition to their treatment.
Just an observation...
There's so much fear and negativity that anything positive is pushed aside or quickly buried as new fears and worries are posted. Look at all the great resources and advice here and then look at how many actually use it :shrug:
The forum in most cases, actually reinforces negative thinking and behavior. It's much easier to sit at a computer and seek reassurance than it is to tackle the real problem. Too many use it as an alternative to seeking real life help.
So while there is a positive in knowing you're not alone in your struggles and it can be cathartic in writing out your thoughts, it's not and never will be a replacement for real life help. That's why I'm always pushing that point.
FMP I also agree Antsy wasn't sure how to tackle out of control hardend HAer's its worked for members one in particular hasn't been on for 2 weeks or more this would normally be a daily hrly visit of that member the other hasn't been back for nearly a week why because the threads have come to a head and Admin has steped in and put a stop to it. It seems to work so why not use this method more often? ATB
I am curious as to why a lot of people don't seem to want to get better or do anything proactive to achieve it?
I am talking about all the self-help stuff that is available and all the advice I have written on the website articles (how many people actually read them??)
When I was acute with anxiety and panic attacks I would go home from work every lunch time and listen to a relaxation tape and read a book about panic attacks. I didn't have the internet then to look things up and get help!
I then got help via CBT and had to work hard at that too.
We offer all sorts of advice on here to get better but I am not sure how many people actually bother to do anything.
There are all the tips on the website pages and of course we recommend CBT4PANIC that is FREE.
Day after day I see members post in despair but they don't seem to want to do anything to get over the issues and I don't understand why not?
There are also CBT referrals that can be done via your GP to get help that way.
Whilst this forum can offer support and advice and sympathy we cannot make you better unless you put the work in.
It just seems that some people want to post over and over about issues (especially HA sufferers) but don't seem so keen on actually helping themselves to get better.
Just wanted to ask the question anyway.
I can’t answer your question but as someone who’s been a member since 2007 with very few posts because I posted, got advice, went and did and then went into remission I can understand why you’d be frustrated.
I find myself migrating back when I’m no longer ‘in remission’
My latest affliction is full blown panic attacks. I’ve had 4 horrific ones in the past 18 month and after the last one I came back here.
I went straight to the CBT4PANIC and found it so helpful as well as the medication forum which reading helped me get onto a beta blocker too.
I hope these posters manage to find some help in the forums soon.
WiseMonkey
18-03-18, 23:43
Even psychologists recognise that CBT won't help everyone, especially those with an entrenched anxiety disorder spanning decades.
Crucial words for many of us, as our conditioning goes back to birth. A newborn comes into this life with a clear slate, so being born to psychologically disturbed or immature parent/s, means our family conditionings (false beliefs) became the core of our reality.
This false conditioning is so difficult to shift, even if you recognise it on an intellectual level, you often still feel it on an emotional level. In times of stress the primal fear kicks in and often stays way too long.
I can’t answer your question but as someone who’s been a member since 2007 with very few posts because I posted, got advice, went and did and then went into remission I can understand why you’d be frustrated.
I find myself migrating back when I’m no longer ‘in remission’
My latest affliction is full blown panic attacks. I’ve had 4 horrific ones in the past 18 month and after the last one I came back here.
I went straight to the CBT4PANIC and found it so helpful as well as the medication forum which reading helped me get onto a beta blocker too.
I hope these posters manage to find some help in the forums soon.
You have done really well db and have been proactive if only more were like you the fact you had a relapse while its not good you will get through this why cause you have tools in place that you can access now and get back on track:hugs: ATB
MyNameIsTerry
19-03-18, 01:41
Agreed. 100% ^^^
I think the reason that we've seen the shift in negativity in this forum is because the vast majority of posts are from people who haven't gotten any or very little real life help. In the past, I think the forum was filled with posts from people who were seeking help, and used the forum in addition to their treatment.
What shift? It's been like this ever since I joined.
Maybe you are seeking cycles of it?
The arguments have mostly disappeared now.
---------- Post added at 01:41 ---------- Previous post was at 01:40 ----------
I also agree Antsy wasn't sure how to tackle out of control hardend HAer's its worked for members one in particular hasn't been on for 2 weeks or more this would normally be a daily hrly visit of that member the other hasn't been back for nearly a week why because the threads have come to a head and Admin has steped in and put a stop to it. It seems to work so why not use this method more often? ATB
I suspect I know who you mean and they come & go. And despite them getting quiet on the forum for a while they were busy on PM because Admin were halting their posting. It wasn't a solution in my eyes because it shifted it onto individual members however shortly afterwards it calmed down as the threads were more controlled.
I would agree with Admin trying to calm members down in their posting as well as calming down those who keep bumping those threads (including to argue out of frustration) but not where pressure is shifted onto individuals as that's even more unfair.
because the threads have come to a head and Admin has steped in and put a stop to it. It seems to work so why not use this method more often? ATB
Do you have any idea how time consuming that was to deal with.
At the end of the day if people showed self restraint, and that applies to responding to these threads, then admin wouldn't have to intervene.
How often have we seen people post "this will be my last post on this thread", yet back they come again and again?
We keep saying this, if a thread is having a negative impact on you, walk away from it, it is not up to Admin to stop you.
Do you have any idea how time consuming that was to deal with.
At the end of the day if people showed self restraint, and that applies to responding to these threads, then admin wouldn't have to intervene.
How often have we seen people post "this will be my last post on this thread", yet back they come again and again?
We keep saying this, if a thread is having a negative impact on you, walk away from it, it is not up to Admin to stop you. Yes I do think it was very draining and took it's toll too so yes it was a lot of work involved. Yes I do walk away when its affecting me too. It sure isn't a easy one to solve. ATB
MyNameIsTerry
19-03-18, 16:30
Yes I do think it was very draining and took it's toll too so yes it was a lot of work involved. Yes I do walk away when its affecting me too. It sure isn't a easy one to solve. ATB
But Admin can't if we don't cooperate with them. Just look at how many posts they had to delete after continual requests not to post. It wasn't just the OP they had to monitor.
How about the complaints they had to resolve? Angry posting can generate complaints so more frustration for them and why? Because some wouldn't comply with their requests.
OP's are one thing but this other can be resolved by walking on by. And why do people say they don't like such threads but can't stop getting involved in them?
Like you've said before, use the triangle. I used to get more involved in these things but I report things now as I don't want the hassle of arguments and it never changes.
But Admin can't if we don't cooperate with them. Just look at how many posts they had to delete after continual requests not to post. It wasn't just the OP they had to monitor.
How about the complaints they had to resolve? Angry posting can generate complaints so more frustration for them and why? Because some wouldn't comply with their requests.
OP's are one thing but this other can be resolved by walking on by. And why do people say they don't like such threads but can't stop getting involved in them?
Like you've said before, use the triangle. I used to get more involved in these things but I report things now as I don't want the hassle of arguments and it never changes.
Hear Hear though tbh I don't want the hassle of the arguments either, and whatever other people say, these conflicts have been ongoing the entire time that I have been a member.
But Admin can't if we don't cooperate with them. Just look at how many posts they had to delete after continual requests not to post. It wasn't just the OP they had to monitor.
How about the complaints they had to resolve? Angry posting can generate complaints so more frustration for them and why? Because some wouldn't comply with their requests.
OP's are one thing but this other can be resolved by walking on by. And why do people say they don't like such threads but can't stop getting involved in them?
Like you've said before, use the triangle. I used to get more involved in these things but I report things now as I don't want the hassle of arguments and it never changes. Very true so what do you do temporary ban them from a specific thread? It's possible to do I guess. and yes it's not all down to the OP either seen these arguments start and it has not involved the OP in slightest how ever it doesn't help one bit. ATB
MyNameIsTerry
19-03-18, 17:12
Hear Hear though tbh I don't want the hassle of the arguments either, and whatever other people say, these conflicts have been ongoing the entire time that I have been a member.
They were when I joined. I remember people like CPE1978 creating threads to discuss it and then loads of people left with him to join a HA group aimed at recovery.
The running battles have stopped now. People are listening to you more, some are sick of getting involved and you've been more on top of it too.
If the respect rules were followed more then I think some of this would improve further.
---------- Post added at 17:12 ---------- Previous post was at 17:09 ----------
Very true so what do you do temporary ban them from a specific thread? It's possible to do I guess. and yes it's not all down to the OP either seen these arguments start and it has not involved the OP in slightest how ever it doesn't help one bit. ATB
Yes, it sadly came to thread banning. Did it stop it? Nope, the same names can always pick a new thread.
It did help the thread bans were imposed on but attitudes didn't change for the next time. I think we are very lucky to have lenient Admins, mainstream sites are far less tolerant of repeated rule breaking.
I fully support banning, thread & beyond. It's the only way when people won't comply.
I think it's a positive move to put a ban on symptom talk on certain threads, Elen. Just food and drink to the seasoned hypochondriac and guaranteed to wind up frustrated people trying to help (who maybe are unaware of the history).
MyNameIsTerry
19-03-18, 17:25
I think it's a positive move to put a ban on symptom talk on certain threads, Elen. Just food and drink to the seasoned hypochondriac and guaranteed to wind up frustrated people trying to help (who maybe are unaware of the history).
I agree. It's a pity that enforcing it requires so much Admin time though.
Hopefully we can minimise that leaving Admin to deal the OP's who will be naturally resistant to it.
I think it's a positive move to put a ban on symptom talk on certain threads, Elen. Just food and drink to the seasoned hypochondriac and guaranteed to wind up frustrated people trying to help (who maybe are unaware of the history).
More positive than people taking responsibility for themselves? Not sure, about that.
Some people are never going to take responsibility for themselves-not in their nature. Easier to look elsewhere and blame other things.
They were when I joined. I remember people like CPE1978 creating threads to discuss it and then loads of people left with him to join a HA group aimed at recovery.
The running battles have stopped now. People are listening to you more, some are sick of getting involved and you've been more on top of it too.
If the respect rules were followed more then I think some of this would improve further.
---------- Post added at 17:12 ---------- Previous post was at 17:09 ----------
Yes, it sadly came to thread banning. Did it stop it? Nope, the same names can always pick a new thread.
It did help the thread bans were imposed on but attitudes didn't change for the next time. I think we are very lucky to have lenient Admins, mainstream sites are far less tolerant of repeated rule breaking.
I fully support banning, thread & beyond. It's the only way when people won't comply. Iam with you on that Terry banning, thread and beyond especially when posters ignore repeated requests from Admin/Mods it is the only way forward. ATB
WiseMonkey
19-03-18, 20:24
Some people are never going to take responsibility for themselves-not in their nature. Easier to look elsewhere and blame other things.
I agree and people with this mentality become victims and victims get stuck.
Of course you can't change what you don't acknowledge but once you do then you're under a personal obligation (to yourself & family) to seek help for your problem/s. These people become proactive :)
I agree and people with this mentality become victims and victims get stuck.
Of course you can't change what you don't acknowledge but once you do then you're under a personal obligation (to yourself & family) to seek help for your problem/s. These people become proactive :)
Absolutely and I think ideally this should be what the HA forum is geared towards. I do believe that some people are comfortable to remain in the victim mentality though-not everyone wants to "get better". Am happy to get shot down in flames for saying this-I think it's what divides a lot of people on here.
Catherine S
19-03-18, 20:59
I think there will always be different ideas about how to advise those with deep-rooted anxiety. Not everybody looks at it from the same direction and we all have our own experiences of dealing with it, which in turn affects the advice we give. Conflicting opinions will always happen...there are too many of us for it not to be so.
I tend to steer clear these days of getting in the midst of threads that are starting to erupt...it's not worth the wrath of those who disagree with me. So I now prefer to just offer my thoughts and leave it at that.
Lesson learned.
Cath ☺
WiseMonkey
19-03-18, 21:15
Absolutely and I think ideally this should be what the HA forum is geared towards. I do believe that some people are comfortable to remain in the victim mentality though-not everyone wants to "get better". Am happy to get shot down in flames for saying this-I think it's what divides a lot of people on here.
Yes, and in remaining the 'victim' there is a payoff.
I don't want to seem condescending here but in my many years of dealing with people I've come to the conclusion that most 'victims' have a low EQ (emotional intelligence quota) although they may have a high IQ. They just don't possess the EQ to be able to deal with the problem/symptom let alone finding a long term solution.
They will drone on endlessly about the problem, they want attention and sympathy, anything else is just too emotionally difficult to entertain.
* Some people are givers and some takers. Givers are other orientated, they are helpful, pro-active solution finders. Victims are self orientated, often co-dependent, attention seekers who take little or no responsibility for themselves*
* My opinions only*
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
Making help accessible is noble. That's the most you can do. You can't make anyone change their ways - they have to decide to do it for themselves.
My rule for myself is 'don't give more than you can afford'. If it gets you down to give advice that isn't taken, you have the option to cut down on giving advice. You have the option to not take it personally when someone doesn't take advice. It's their decision and it's not your call about what they do with their mental health. It's their life.
Just because something helped me, it doesn't mean it will automatically work for anyone else.
I found the opening post a bit passive aggressive, which makes me wonder what's going on in the background for you Nicola. You are our leader, and you seem blame-y about some forum members not doing a good enough job of their own lives - that's not your typical welcoming vibe. This forum has meant the world to me at certain times in my life. You're doing a brilliant job. You don't need to help people more than you are. You can afford to have a % of people not acting on the advice given.
Is there anything we can do to help you accept that you don't have control over people's behaviour? Or do you need to set up a new forum rule, to limit people's behaviour?
There is too much moderation. Let people sort it out for themselves. I’ve been in and out of here for years and in the last year or so the level of moderation has increased to the point where it is as if nanny is reading every post. People have been arguing here since I joined and probably long before that. People argue, it’s a fact of life. In the past the admin managed to keep out of much of it and it got sorted. Moreover, admin can never be completely objective so they are going to be removing posts and banning people from threads based on who they like and who they don’t. Don’t tell me that isn’t true because the evidence is there.
If I had to guess why NMP is so heavily moderated I would guess it is because of the number of complaints the mods receive from members about other members. I only need to look at the pms I’ve received to know the mods must receive tons of those sorts of complaints. No doubt most of them petty. So let people argue it out. Moderation is only needed when it involves the bullying and abuse of another member. Not when members are debating between themselves.
Moreover, admin can never be completely objective so they are going to be removing posts and banning people from threads based on who they like and who they don’t. Don’t tell me that isn’t true because the evidence is there.
That is totally your opinion Swajj.
I would argue that the people who get deleted and banned from threads are those who are guilty of making nasty comments just for the sake of it.
Members have been warned over and over that this is not acceptable, yet a small minority ignore all warnings.
The Admins on NMP work as a team and we keep each other up to date if action is taken.
Yes we get a lot of complaints, some justified and some not. Again it is a team decision as to what action is to be taken.
But you don’t get any complaints from me. Add your name to the following list if you can say the same thing.
lol sometimes you have to laugh.
MyNameIsTerry
20-03-18, 12:11
That is totally your opinion Swajj.
I would argue that the people who get deleted and banned from threads are those who are guilty of making nasty comments just for the sake of it.
Members have been warned over and over that this is not acceptable, yet a small minority ignore all warnings.
The Admins on NMP work as a team and we keep each other up to date if action is taken.
Yes we get a lot of complaints, some justified and some not. Again it is a team decision as to what action is to be taken.
Absolutely. This is a forum with vulnerable people therefore moderation is needed. Without It i can imagine how it would descend into aggressive arguments that serve to put people off joining this place.
This is a mental health forum. And I've been on mainstream forums and they hand out bans (complete ones) for rule breaking very easily.
I don't always agree with Admin decisions and I've had plenty of complaints raised against me too.
nomorepanic
21-03-18, 17:33
I found the opening post a bit passive aggressive, which makes me wonder what's going on in the background for you Nicola. You are our leader, and you seem blame-y about some forum members not doing a good enough job of their own lives - that's not your typical welcoming vibe. This forum has meant the world to me at certain times in my life. You're doing a brilliant job. You don't need to help people more than you are. You can afford to have a % of people not acting on the advice given.
It doesn't seem passive/aggressive to me to be honest. I was saying how I see things. I am not blaming people, I am asking why they won't use the tools available and all the advice I have written in the articles etc.
Is there anything we can do to help you accept that you don't have control over people's behaviour? Or do you need to set up a new forum rule, to limit people's behaviour?
That is coming across as quite patronising though :shrug:
I haven’t reas through all the comments on this thread, but I’d just like to say from my experience on here:
Sometimes no matter how much people who commented on my threads were giving me advice or telling me about resources, it wouldn’t go through to me. Not because i wanted to stay in this anxious state - nobody wants that. But because i was anxious about taking first steps. I didn’t want to face how bad my issues really were - i knew they were bad, but not this bad. it took me a long time to admit to myself how bad i was and it was only then that i could start to accept help & resources.
We have to remember that every person is different, we deal with things differently, we accept things differently.
We are constantly learning about ourselves every single day.
As long as the rescourses are there at hand - people will use them when they feel they’re ready.
“You can’t help someone who can’t admit they need help”.
MyNameIsTerry
22-03-18, 01:52
I haven’t reas through all the comments on this thread, but I’d just like to say from my experience on here:
Sometimes no matter how much people who commented on my threads were giving me advice or telling me about resources, it wouldn’t go through to me. Not because i wanted to stay in this anxious state - nobody wants that. But because i was anxious about taking first steps. I didn’t want to face how bad my issues really were - i knew they were bad, but not this bad. it took me a long time to admit to myself how bad i was and it was only then that i could start to accept help & resources.
We have to remember that every person is different, we deal with things differently, we accept things differently.
We are constantly learning about ourselves every single day.
As long as the rescourses are there at hand - people will use them when they feel they’re ready.
“You can’t help someone who can’t admit they need help”.
Excellent post.
I felt a lot the same in my early stages.
Also, it's not as simple as take a pill or read some CBT and get better (I know this is not what is being said in this thread either) but it involves taking more fear on top of the fear you already feel you can't cope with.
That can feel too much. And avoidance is a big thing in anxiety, which is obvious when "flight" is avoidance to survive, so we stick in the rut because whilst we feel terrible we know we may feel even worse trying to get out of it.
Sadly, it does get worse before it gets better and it's a matter of finding the courage to do it and keep going. Meds help some straight away, others ride the rollercoaster and lose years of their lives while inexperienced GP's flit from drug to drug with little appreciation of the impact. Therapy can take ages, it can mean multiple rounds, and the NHS aren't geared up for that. Peer support has been growing for a reason.
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