View Full Version : Why is it bad to seek reassurance?
My somewhat philosophical question as I'm trying, wanting, needing to recover from HA... Why is seeking reassurance a bad thing? I'd like to better understand this so I can stop doing it.
Someone posted that her HA therapy rules were not to seek reassurance from anyone, for any illness, real or imagined. She agreed to see a doctor if the issue went on for more than 8 weeks.
I am going to try this, but I'd still like to better understand the double-edged sword of reassurance-seeking. Is it bad because it gives us the illusion of control? Why exactly do we need to learn to live with insecurity and the unknown?
Catherine S
07-02-18, 01:58
I don't think it's particularly bad to seek reassurance at the beginning of an illness fear. It becomes bad when you're still doing it a year later after all the negative tests. Then it's obviously a problem :lac:
Cath S
Why is it bad to seek reassurance?
Because, as documented all over the forum... It doesn't work! Some posters even argue after being told multiple times and with scientific tests and medical professionals opinions to the point of saying things like "You'll be sorry when I come back with that cancer diagnosis". Never happens.
Reassurance to an HA sufferer is like dope to an addict. Short term relief followed by needing more and more. How many times have you seen several pages of reassurance followed by an "Anyone else?" reply? :lac: Some literally beg for it... "Please... someone respond, I'm desperate".
It's the nature of the dragon and that's why starving it is beneficial IMO.
Positive thoughts
My question is why is it good to seek reassurance? You might feel better for a little bit, but we’ve all seen over and over again the reassurance doesn’t last. And it becomes a game of getting more reassurance, better reassurance. It’s a game that you can’t win. It’s far better to try to manage your own anxious thoughts and challenge your negative self talk so you can calm yourself. Like they say, “teach a man to fish.”
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 19:04 ---------- Previous post was at 19:03 ----------
Furthermore, don’t you think you deserve better than some stranger giving you medical advice over the Internet?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
TheGroundhog
07-02-18, 07:53
My somewhat philosophical question as I'm trying, wanting, needing to recover from HA... Why is seeking reassurance a bad thing? I'd like to better understand this so I can stop doing it.
Someone posted that her HA therapy rules were not to seek reassurance from anyone, for any illness, real or imagined. She agreed to see a doctor if the issue went on for more than 8 weeks.
I am going to try this, but I'd still like to better understand the double-edged sword of reassurance-seeking. Is it bad because it gives us the illusion of control? Why exactly do we need to learn to live with insecurity and the unknown?
Hiya :) that person is me, I'll try and explain further.
Firstly the reason why we have to accept uncertainty and the unknown, is life is full of uncertainty. The anxious mind hates this and wants absolutes, but that is not possible. In the same vein anxiety trumps everything, every emotion, thought, feeling you try to counter anxiety with, it will trump it.
So here we are with anxiety always winning, and a mind that is desperate for relief from anxiety. What might relieve that anxiety? How about some reassurance that what we fear is not real, will not hurt us?
We have health anxiety, so let's imagine we've got some bowel stuff going on. We might ask a partner or parent if they have had a similar symptom to ours, they say 'yeah, now and then'. BINGO we feel a tiny bit better, isn't that great, phew, relief. But a day or two with our symptom unchanging, we think 'well, maybe there's wasn't the same, maybe it didn't go on this long? I think mine might be XXXX after all?'
So maybe we have a quick Google, and lo and behold loads of people have our symptoms, it's just IBS. BINGO. Phew, relief. But while Googling we also saw the page peppered with cancer here and there, so later in bed we think 'what if?' and the fear gets worse.
Now what has given us a bit of relief in the past? What have we learnt to do, oh yes, reassurance, that's what we need.
We have another Google, 'see, it's fine, all these people, just IBS'. BINGO, phew, relief.
While Googling we come across NMP, 'wow a forum, for people just like me, can't hurt to ask what they think my symptoms are. Everyone says IBS. There nothing wrong with you. This is health anxiety. You're fine. BINGO.
But later that day, you think, 'they don't know me, how can they know what's wrong? I'll go to the GP'. So you make the appointment, panic leading up to it, post more on NMP about how worried you are, speak more to the people you know in real life, so they can make you feel better, and you get constant micro relief from the anxiety, it's the only time you feel better, so obviously you keep doing it.
The appointment day arrives, you list your symptoms to a GP, they say they're not really concerned at the moment, give you some IBS meds to try and tell you to come back in two weeks.
BINGO
BINGO
BINGO
That feels great, you're fine, nothing to worry about after all.
You go home. You start to think 'but they didn't do any tests? What did the Dr mean by "not concerned at the moment"? Why do they want to see you in two weeks? What do they really suspect?'. You dissect the conversation on NMP, with loved ones. Tiny bingos, but not enough, you make another GP appointment.
To cut a long story short, you are back and forth to the GP, telling strangers on the internet about parts of your body you would never usually mention in conversation and discussing your latest bowel movement with your gran, your horrified friend and the nice woman on the bus.
Every time someone says You. Are. Okay. You feel better. But it doesn't last, you need to ask again. You are desperate beyond belief for reassurance, to just absolutely KNOW, there is nothing seriously wrong, so you keep asking, feeling relief, feeling doubt, feeling panic, asking.....
You have created a monster. And you are it's slave.
The human body is constantly in flux. You are not a robot. The body feels, responds, suffers. Is asymmetrical, fallible, has marks, pains, sensations. It is a living breathing thing, it constantly changes. All this is a miracle if it doesn't frighten you to your very core.
At the end of the day you could have a full body scan, every test under the sun, receive a certificate of 100% heath from the most qualified Dr in the world. And the next day you could start to grow a cancer.
And that is why reassurance will never, ever, help a person with HA. A 'normal' person, yes, totally. But not us.
So they only way is to give it up, completely. You have to tell everyone you are likely to ask in real life that they are not to reassure you if you come with health worries, though they can give you a hug, make you a cup of tea, chat with you about other stuff. You ban yourself from Google, you ban yourself (mostly) from GPs. (8 week rule or if someone else thinks you might imminently die.... Everything else can wait, your anxiety is far more damaging). And you don't post symptoms on here. (Though you can say you are anxious and having a terrible time, and receive virtual hugs, tea and chat).
And slowly, slowly, your brain calms down, you break the cycle, you gradually recover. And in that process you will have symptoms that overwhelm you with your need to know, sometimes you will mess up, every time you do you will learn.
It's very hard. It's completely do-able. It's the only way to get real relief.
The human body is constantly in flux. You are not a robot. The body feels, responds, suffers. Is asymmetrical, fallible, has marks, pains, sensations. It is a living breathing thing, it constantly changes. All this is a miracle if it doesn't frighten you to your very core.
The most relevant piece of wisdom my previous GP ever gave me is that the human body is inherently noisy. It’s not a perfectly oiled machine at all. We are constantly bombarded by aches, pains, and sensations, and most of the time we don’t even know why. Most people can filter these feelings out automatically, whereas we (HA sufferers) need to learn it’s okay to live with them (and relearn how to filter them out).
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I never came here to seek reassurance. I was posting here for almost the whole 3 years I had anxiety though. I didn’t see the point of asking for reassurance because I knew I wouldn’t believe it anyway.
I would actually like someone here to explain to me how reassurance actually helps them. If you won’t accept the word of a doctor who has had the opportunity to examine/test you then how can asking a bunch of strangers on an Internet forum for their opinion help you? I honestly don’t get it.
The most relevant piece of wisdom my previous GP ever gave me is that the human body is inherently noisy. It’s not a perfectly oiled machine at all. We are constantly bombarded by aches, pains, and sensations, and most of the time we don’t even know why. Most people can filter these feelings out automatically, whereas we (HA sufferers) need to learn it’s okay to live with them (and relearn how to filter them out).Hey Ryan, another 'gem' of a post from you this morning :D You have loads of good advice to give, having seen a few of your posts! Sorry, and Groundhog, who originally made a statement about the human body as well.
Hiya :) that person is me, I'll try and explain further....
A very good post indeed :notworthy:
nomorepanic
07-02-18, 12:48
Love your post groundhog - I may put it on the main HA website page if that is ok with you - you will get credit for it.
The human body is constantly in flux. You are not a robot. The body feels, responds, suffers. Is asymmetrical, fallible, has marks, pains, sensations. It is a living breathing thing, it constantly changes. All this is a miracle if it doesn't frighten you to your very core.
Great post! I've said this in so many words many times here. We're not made of porcelain ;)
Positive thoughts
Love your post groundhog - I may put it on the main HA website page if that is ok with you - you will get credit for it.
__________________
....and the one from Ryan, as that says it in a different way ?
MyNameIsTerry
07-02-18, 13:54
My somewhat philosophical question as I'm trying, wanting, needing to recover from HA... Why is seeking reassurance a bad thing? I'd like to better understand this so I can stop doing it.
Someone posted that her HA therapy rules were not to seek reassurance from anyone, for any illness, real or imagined. She agreed to see a doctor if the issue went on for more than 8 weeks.
I am going to try this, but I'd still like to better understand the double-edged sword of reassurance-seeking. Is it bad because it gives us the illusion of control? Why exactly do we need to learn to live with insecurity and the unknown?
There are various disorders that get scooped up under the sufferers term of HA. So, reassurance seeking can differ in it's effects and for the sake of my reply I'm just talking about OCD.
Reassurance seeking is a compulsion. A compulsion exists to mitigate the feelings of anxiety to the sufferer. To the subconscious it's a process chart that works in a cyclical fashion and the compulsion sends the final signal on that chart to terminate as "process valid & working".
Part of beating OCD is breaking that pattern to stop reinforcing it. This way the subconscious starts to learn through observation that the process is not required because the conscious mind, the executive, it's deciding it's irrelevant.
That is why whether you do CBT, acceptance or anything else they will tell you to stop adding to your anxiety/panic through negative behaviours. Positive/neutral responses to triggers send back a signal to the Amygdala in question that it can't process (the fear cycle is built on an expected response) therefore you starve it of that tick in the final box that it uses to reinforce the obsession or fear.
Intrusive thought metaphors explain this but so do panic cycle diagrams. They just nuance it. The metaphor explains how a conscious response of "aaaarrrrggghhhh" is interpreted by the subconscious as "aha, so that's important then" and learning to respond with "meh" is interpreted with "oh, that doesn't matter then, won't keep doing that then".
Since the fear cycle is strong, because it is meant to protect us, it takes longer to change than to build a fear. If it didn't, we could put ourselves in danger by misunderstanding a danger.
Basically, modern psychology & neuroscience has explained an old American Indian metaphor about "it's the wolf you feed".
TheGroundhog
07-02-18, 13:54
Love your post groundhog - I may put it on the main HA website page if that is ok with you - you will get credit for it.
Of course :) hope it helps.
Lol Terry I do love the story of "It's the wolf you feed". It is so true.
paranoid-viking
07-02-18, 18:38
I don't think it's particularly bad to seek reassurance at the beginning of an illness fear. It becomes bad when you're still doing it a year later after all the negative tests. Then it's obviously a problem :lac:
Cath S
Well, sometimes I detect negativity even at the beginning of an ilness fear.
---------- Post added at 19:38 ---------- Previous post was at 19:34 ----------
My question is why is it good to seek reassurance? You might feel better for a little bit, but we’ve all seen over and over again the reassurance doesn’t last. And it becomes a game of getting more reassurance, better reassurance. It’s a game that you can’t win. It’s far better to try to manage your own anxious thoughts and challenge your negative self talk so you can calm yourself. Like they say, “teach a man to fish.”
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 19:04 ---------- Previous post was at 19:03 ----------
Furthermore, don’t you think you deserve better than some stranger giving you medical advice over the Internet?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What I find difficult to understand is how someone whose been told umpteen time why a viral disease is not affecting them and the plain scientifical proven facts still keep coming back posting crazy questions about rabies, HIV and brain eating amoebas. When doctors, people here and even google telles in plain language how such diseases are contacted and how not.
I mean, I am not fearing such viral diseases because I know it is 100% impossible for me to get them the way some posters here seem to think. But they are being told over and over that no one ever hot HIV or something from touching a door knob and still they post and believe they will be the forst one in the history of manking to get the virus that way. Amazing. It is the HA eqivalent to fearing alien abduction.
MyNameIsTerry
08-02-18, 01:50
What I find difficult to understand is how someone whose been told umpteen time why a viral disease is not affecting them and the plain scientifical proven facts still keep coming back posting crazy questions about rabies, HIV and brain eating amoebas. When doctors, people here and even google telles in plain language how such diseases are contacted and how not.
I mean, I am not fearing such viral diseases because I know it is 100% impossible for me to get them the way some posters here seem to think. But they are being told over and over that no one ever hot HIV or something from touching a door knob and still they post and believe they will be the forst one in the history of manking to get the virus that way. Amazing. It is the HA eqivalent to fearing alien abduction.
It's no different than fearing a cancer you don't actually have.
Not all anxiety is about fear of cancers and not all anxiety sufferers are afraid of death. I couldn't care less of death, I've wished it on myself enough going through all this. None of my fears could kill me or even physically harm me. Does it make them any less frightening?
---------- Post added at 01:50 ---------- Previous post was at 01:48 ----------
Lol Terry I do love the story of "It's the wolf you feed". It is so true.
Yep, there has been plenty of wisdom around before the current modern medical era came along and put labels on everything. It's a story so relevant to all people in learning to be better & happier.
Hiya :) that person is me, I'll try and explain further.
Firstly the reason why we have to accept uncertainty and the unknown, is life is full of uncertainty. The anxious mind hates this and wants absolutes, but that is not possible. In the same vein anxiety trumps everything, every emotion, thought, feeling you try to counter anxiety with, it will trump it.
So here we are with anxiety always winning, and a mind that is desperate for relief from anxiety. What might relieve that anxiety? How about some reassurance that what we fear is not real, will not hurt us?
We have health anxiety, so let's imagine we've got some bowel stuff going on. We might ask a partner or parent if they have had a similar symptom to ours, they say 'yeah, now and then'. BINGO we feel a tiny bit better, isn't that great, phew, relief. But a day or two with our symptom unchanging, we think 'well, maybe there's wasn't the same, maybe it didn't go on this long? I think mine might be XXXX after all?'
So maybe we have a quick Google, and lo and behold loads of people have our symptoms, it's just IBS. BINGO. Phew, relief. But while Googling we also saw the page peppered with cancer here and there, so later in bed we think 'what if?' and the fear gets worse.
Now what has given us a bit of relief in the past? What have we learnt to do, oh yes, reassurance, that's what we need.
We have another Google, 'see, it's fine, all these people, just IBS'. BINGO, phew, relief.
While Googling we come across NMP, 'wow a forum, for people just like me, can't hurt to ask what they think my symptoms are. Everyone says IBS. There nothing wrong with you. This is health anxiety. You're fine. BINGO.
But later that day, you think, 'they don't know me, how can they know what's wrong? I'll go to the GP'. So you make the appointment, panic leading up to it, post more on NMP about how worried you are, speak more to the people you know in real life, so they can make you feel better, and you get constant micro relief from the anxiety, it's the only time you feel better, so obviously you keep doing it.
The appointment day arrives, you list your symptoms to a GP, they say they're not really concerned at the moment, give you some IBS meds to try and tell you to come back in two weeks.
BINGO
BINGO
BINGO
That feels great, you're fine, nothing to worry about after all.
You go home. You start to think 'but they didn't do any tests? What did the Dr mean by "not concerned at the moment"? Why do they want to see you in two weeks? What do they really suspect?'. You dissect the conversation on NMP, with loved ones. Tiny bingos, but not enough, you make another GP appointment.
To cut a long story short, you are back and forth to the GP, telling strangers on the internet about parts of your body you would never usually mention in conversation and discussing your latest bowel movement with your gran, your horrified friend and the nice woman on the bus.
Every time someone says You. Are. Okay. You feel better. But it doesn't last, you need to ask again. You are desperate beyond belief for reassurance, to just absolutely KNOW, there is nothing seriously wrong, so you keep asking, feeling relief, feeling doubt, feeling panic, asking.....
You have created a monster. And you are it's slave.
The human body is constantly in flux. You are not a robot. The body feels, responds, suffers. Is asymmetrical, fallible, has marks, pains, sensations. It is a living breathing thing, it constantly changes. All this is a miracle if it doesn't frighten you to your very core.
At the end of the day you could have a full body scan, every test under the sun, receive a certificate of 100% heath from the most qualified Dr in the world. And the next day you could start to grow a cancer.
And that is why reassurance will never, ever, help a person with HA. A 'normal' person, yes, totally. But not us.
So they only way is to give it up, completely. You have to tell everyone you are likely to ask in real life that they are not to reassure you if you come with health worries, though they can give you a hug, make you a cup of tea, chat with you about other stuff. You ban yourself from Google, you ban yourself (mostly) from GPs. (8 week rule or if someone else thinks you might imminently die.... Everything else can wait, your anxiety is far more damaging). And you don't post symptoms on here. (Though you can say you are anxious and having a terrible time, and receive virtual hugs, tea and chat).
And slowly, slowly, your brain calms down, you break the cycle, you gradually recover. And in that process you will have symptoms that overwhelm you with your need to know, sometimes you will mess up, every time you do you will learn.
It's very hard. It's completely do-able. It's the only way to get real relief.
this is spot on. what a great helpful post.
i totally agree. and that post made me open my eyes to several things that have gotten worse for me lately. i even noticed a few times, that feeling of euphoria that i have gotten when i get a good dose of reassurance in the past. back when i used to google my symptoms, read page after page of stuff etc. i quit doing that and it really helped me. i also stopped watching the news and stopped reading medical fb posts, etc. but then, i noticed it became more of an avoidance thing....funny how it transformed. so that was a problem.
then i decided that i could ask my sisters and that would help. it did. then that grew, and now i ask them stuff all the time. too much. then when it came time for a real issue, like my son having the flu, they were helpful, but they probably rolled their eyes behind my back.
so, groundhog...how do you cope when you are in the first stages of this? it's like detox. how did you handle the physical symptoms? i literally have a physical feeling of fear when something medical pops up. panic and fear. can't eat can't sleep, etc. it's so hard to function. then it's a little dangerous because it's depressing. how do you manage that? meds?
the uncertainty is killing me. how ironic is that.
Why is it bad to seek reassurance?
Because, as documented all over the forum... It doesn't work! Some posters even argue after being told multiple times and with scientific tests and medical professionals opinions to the point of saying things like "You'll be sorry when I come back with that cancer diagnosis". Never happens.
Reassurance to an HA sufferer is like dope to an addict. Short term relief followed by needing more and more. How many times have you seen several pages of reassurance followed by an "Anyone else?" reply? :lac: Some literally beg for it... "Please... someone respond, I'm desperate".
It's the nature of the dragon and that's why starving it is beneficial IMO.
Positive thoughts
OMG, I’ve actually thought something like that, in my head never out loud, before. “You’ll be sorry.” Wow. This whole post Fishmanpa was eye opening. Thanks!
Brilliant post and thread here... thanks for sharing.
I often wonder if its even worth it to get certain tests done (like EMGs, EKGs, NCVs). Do people actually feel better after getting a doctors word that theyre fine? I imagine many people get tests done and still have bad health anxiety after. So is it even worth the trip, time or money to get them?
MyNameIsTerry
09-02-18, 02:18
I often wonder if its even worth it to get certain tests done (like EMGs, EKGs, NCVs). Do people actually feel better after getting a doctors word that theyre fine? I imagine many people get tests done and still have bad health anxiety after. So is it even worth the trip, time or money to get them?
If you took your car in because you thought you heard some rattling and the mechanic checked it over and said it was fine...but you insisted on having x, y & z tested despite his opinion being it wasn't needed how happy would he be that you were lining his pockets?
There are different issues between private & public health providers but I always wonder about the private sector and just how ethical they are? Some doctors get exposed for kickbacks from drug companies so some I wonder about...:whistles:
I guess we have to trust in the people and their professional bodies. But disorders that cannot be truly proven, rather other things can be ruled out, make it easier to justify to those who might but a brand new Mercedes ahead of their patient's wallet. :shrug:
If you took your car in because you thought you heard some rattling and the mechanic checked it over and said it was fine...but you insisted on having x, y & z tested despite his opinion being it wasn't needed how happy would he be that you were lining his pockets?
There are different issues between private & public health providers but I always wonder about the private sector and just how ethical they are? Some doctors get exposed for kickbacks from drug companies so some I wonder about...:whistles:
I guess we have to trust in the people and their professional bodies. But disorders that cannot be truly proven, rather other things can be ruled out, make it easier to justify to those who might but a brand new Mercedes ahead of their patient's wallet. :shrug:
Good point mate.... some really good discussion on this thread.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.