No effect from meditation and relaxation techniques (hundred hours of practice)

[DLPhelp]

Hello, I would like to know if I am the only one for who meditation and relaxation techniques don't work at all ? (For those who have practiced seriously)

Are you in this situation, or have you been there ? Any advices ?

Even in ADHD situations I don't see anybody on the net who seems to be in that situation..

In fact for me it has worked only a few times while I have practice all the kind of meditation which exist and all the kind of relaxation techniques, each one I have give it a try of many hours. Also I have been in a meditation retreat of 8 days without noticing any effect..
Techniques that I have practiced on my own and with CBT therapists. In fact I am the only one patient that they know for who this techniques doesn't work.
At the beginning I have been treated for social anxiety disorder and generalized anxiety disorder but now it is sure that I have inattentive symptoms and maybe ADD, even if one of my therapist think that all this inattentive symptoms maybe come from my anxiety disorders, I don't know..So now I am treated by a doctor specialist in ADHD, I will see.
In meditation and relaxation I think it is my focus that cause the lack of result : in fact I have no selective attention, during meditation for example, when I focuse on an object, at the same time I am distracted, it takes less than a second every time, I lose my focus every half second, when I focus it is like I observe the breath (or other) and during all this time the thoughts NEVER stop, even a few seconds, because my selective attention has zero intensity, I can't even concentrate my focus on an object, my attention go back and forth at very hight speed.

I have practice a lot and read a lot on this subject (meditation and relaxation) so please don't speak about "it takes time" "it is normal", and don't give me meditation advice.. I have a lot of knowledges on this subjects and psycho, neuroscience, etc. So I know for sure that at the moment it doesn't work.

! No relaxation from relaxation techniques, no boost in attention and mindfulness from meditation.. ! :weep:

It is very frustrating to know what can effectively reduce/cure my anxiety disorders and inattentive symptoms, when in the practice I don't get benefit..Moreover I am very passionate about this subject and a very spiritual person, so it is a very important aspect that I want to add to my life with effectiveness..So for medical reasons and spiritual reasons..

Thanks in advance for your responses, I am very desperate of this situation..

[MandyBlack]

You are not the only one!! I find relaxation and some kind of meditation through pilates exercise, because you activate your body as well, you don't just stand and try not to think like meditation :P Stop trying for a perfect meditation, start pilates or gym! Maybe you can't stay still and that is completely normal :)

[ankietyjoe]

The point of meditation isn't focus or relaxation. The point of meditation is to RE-focus when your mind wanders. Your mind wandering quickly and often happens to everybody.

I wonder if it's possible that your anxiety is being increased by worrying about the very thing that WILL happen when you meditate, which is noticing that your mind wanders.

[DLPhelp]

Hey all !

Thanks for your responses :)

MandyBlack : I am very happy that it works great for you :) But for me it doesn't work, I have done a lot of yoga (breath work, posture and meditation) but without any effect.. I can't be in the present moment even with this kind of exercices :weep:

ankietyjoe : "The point of meditation is to RE-focus when your mind wanders. Your mind wandering quickly and often happens to everybody."
I agree with this statement and it is true that meditation is not really relaxation. But for the focus part I disagree with you because traditionnaly mindfulness meditation is call "shamatha/calm abiding" . It is used to develop focus and wisdom, and to attain the jhanas : the more you meditate the more your focus is intense. In fact mindfulness meditation like mindful breathing is a "focused attention meditation". It has to be understood that the term "meditation" (bhavana in Pali) means "cultivate", so focused attention meditation has for goal to develop focus : development of calm abiding. And in some traditions it is used especially for a short period of time in order to focus the mind before doing open monitoring meditation or compassion meditation. 2 kinds of meditation that can be difficult when the mind is restless.
Also from a scientific point of view, it has been proved again and again that meditation develop attentional skills, and is also effective to decrease ADHD symptoms..


But for me it doesn't work, in fact it is like I have no selective attention, it seems that my focus is very weak : when I focus on an object, my mind never stop a single second during all the session, it is like my attention is too weak to stay on an object. And I think relaxation techniques doesn't work for the same reason, my mind is not in the exercice : he is all the time with my thoughts and physical sensations, like if maybe he is always hypervigilant at scanning threats, so he doesn't want to focus on one thing. (I am very very self conscious so it is an hypothesis)

In fact nothing relax me or put me in the present moment except physical exercices, especially intense, because I have no time to think in that situation.
Also I have tried some medication but without effect now, and I thought that I could cure my anxiety disorders with CBT and relaxation/meditation, this is why I have not decided to take medication during a long time. But nothing work has worked for me so I look again at medication. Maybe it can solve my problems of focus and anxiety..I hope..

[ankietyjoe]

The practice of meditation isn't about the destination. Whilst you know all the terms and can recite what you've obviously studied, the point of meditation IS to re-focus an inattentive mind. Not being able to maintain focus is not a problem, as 99% of people won't be able to do that for more than a few seconds, let alone minutes. It is the practice of non judgmentally re-focusing your mind when it wanders which is what meditation is about.

Your expectation of meditation = calm and focused will always lead to disappointment.

The human mind will not switch off, it can't switch off. Meditation simply allows you to develop tools to allow the mind to do what it needs to do, while you observe and accept. It is the act of observing and accepting that over time will calm YOUR reaction to things you cannot control.

I genuinely believe that you are looking at meditation from the wrong perspective.

[DLPhelp]

When I practice, I practice, I don't search to attain a destination. In fact the first year of meditation I meditated without any knowledge of what will happen.
I was a big belever and practitionner in the last years, but when I reflect (ONLY RECENTLY) on the changes : ZERO ! While the scientific studies speak about all different results.

In fact, if in the past I have to respond at my first post, I will probably write the same things that you write, but it is difficult to explain how special are my attentionnal skills. And my focus is very bad in daily life, not only in meditation.

Also, a few times relaxation techniques and meditation have "worked" so I know what we can expect from thoses "techniques". Even if you think, and I disagree, that my experience of meditation is normal, It doesn't explain why relaxation techniques doesn't work for me, while the relaxation response is the goal of all relaxation techniques. And I think that the lack of results on meditation and relaxation techniques are caused by a same problem.

About "refocusing" I am not about "a few seconds" , it is like zero for me, in fact it is at a point that it seems like I can multitasking (while it is impossible in reality, cognitively) : I observe an object while AT THE SAME TIME, during all the session my thoughts NEVER STOP to speak, so in my situation it is not about refocusing. I understand that meditation is a process of returning to the object when the mind wanders, but my problem is that the object and the thoughts are present at the time. It is not possible so we can think that I lost and regain my focus many times in a same second !
I hope that you understand : my experience of regaining attention is very different than the norm.

Also I am not sure if you disagree on this point but after a session of meditation, the level of concentration and clarity is increased. Attentionnal skills and memory increase after less than a week of meditation.
And, you have probably see that it takes 10-15 minutes before the mind settle down a bit. Also the daily 45 minutes of meditation in Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction (MBSR meditation) is justified by his creators precisely because of the fact 45 minutes is a sufficient time for the mind to settle down and to have a sensation of calm.
I am not sure but you seem to disagree that (I take an example) after a 1 hour session of meditation we don't feel immediate effect, it is symply not true, after 1 hour of meditation it is sure that your cognitive skills and clarity has increased (for a few minutes/hours)
I don't say that we have to experience a lack of thoughts or a blissful experience from meditation but that we can't disagree with the fact that meditation increase cognitive skills after a simple session and that after weeks/months of meditation your cognitive skills have changed, and your relisience and outlook have improved.