View Full Version : Meaning of life
Does anybody question meaning of life why am I here, why does stuff happen ect?
As far as I know from reading books and other people's take on it.....
We are here for a reason, whatever that is, but I don't think we are supposed to know, otherwise we would! But, we are here to experience and help each other and maybe even make our mark, contribute to the Earth and some people say to be tested. (The last one definitely rings true fro me).
This subject fascinates me. :unsure:
I think about this all the time. I've never come up with a satisfactory answer. It's great when people work together to try and make the world a better place, but why so many evil people wanting to cause misery? And what's the point of it all anyway? And why do the bad ones so often win, world leaders for example who don't give a jot about their people but just want to line their own pockets? The world seems to be full of useless leaders at the moment. No, I still don't get it.
PWO_Nathan
05-05-18, 12:20
Tough one really but few examples string to my mind personally.
We are there to contribute to humanity - to what end? If this is the case, why are we not just rolled off an assemble line, supply and demand?
We are there to worship an all powerful god - OK why and which? I can't fathom why some high god would create a race purely to worship him or her and feed their ego. That being said, I think been told how to live your life by a religion, no sex before marriage etc is completely wrong and contradictory to "free will" put out there by these religions.
We are just animals that have evolved, there is nothing "out there" in terms of gods etc - maybe, but how terrifying?
So to answer, I think the meaning of life is individual to us all, its what we make of it and what we believe. I don't think there is a black n white answer to this.
I think Eric Idle (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jMIrV918ek) says it best :winks:
Positive thoughts
Does anybody question meaning of life why am I here, why does stuff happen ect?
of course.... I've been asking that constantly since I was 10. I've been having pureO(OCD without any physical behaviors) and I kinda wish my OCD was that question.... because generally that question wasn't a scary/dark question at least for me..
I had a breakdown a few years ago and it made me question things more like why do things happen is it fate/planned out I know we don’t know the future but my anxiety makes me worry stuff is planned out anybody else had these thoughts?
For example why did I buy this house or why did I take this job?
I'm not a religious person myself but I think a lot of religious people (like Christians for example) think everything is planned out by God. They also believe human beings have free will even though things are planned out by God which is interesting.
I'm not a religious person myself but I think a lot of religious people (like Christians for example) think everything is planned out by God. They also believe human beings have free will even though things are planned out by God which is interesting.
So like The Adjustment Bureau film then? Some people with anxiety believe there life is The Trueman show too.
So like The Adjustment Bureau film then? Some people with anxiety believe there life is The Trueman show too.
haha. it's funny that one of my friends actually told me a long time ago that he thought his life might be a Trueman Show. I don't know much about The Adjustment Bureau film since I never watched it. But yeah even I kinda believe in 'determinism' even though I'm not religious at all. Determinism where every event and movement could be calculated in advanced with sufficient technology and brute force power to calculate every atom's directions and movements and energy.
If you go out to a party, night club, dinner or just doing something you enjoy do you spend the whole time questioning why you are there ? No you just enjoy it, approach life the same way, the meaning of life is just too big a question for anyone to answer. The reason you're here isn't as important as what you do when you are here :)
Lately ive had a thought like what if god controls our minds and we are all robots? A bit like free will ect but only worse he controls everything you think? Is this possible or far fetched?
No, we're definitely organic material.
Lately ive had a thought like what if god controls our minds and we are all robots? A bit like free will ect but only worse he controls everything you think? Is this possible or far fetched?
This leads to circular arguments about whether 'God' exists and in what form.
There is no answer and it will mess with your mind thinking we're being controlled like automatons by an outside entity/being/force.
Better to focus on your mental health, Phil.
This leads to circular arguments about whether 'God' exists and in what form.
There is no answer and it will mess with your mind thinking we're being controlled like automatons by an outside entity/being/force.
Better to focus on your mental health, Phil.
Yes that’s true it doesn’t make me feel good at all but I wonder where all my thoughts come from this one seems to have taken over like solipsism.
I’ve had solipsism/existance/god questions/not existing or not feeling human
Has anybody else had this?
brucealmighty
10-01-19, 18:40
yes for years, ultimately there`s no one can say it`s this or it`s that. everyone has times when you think `what`s the point` or `where`s this all heading` but as with most things finding a distraction or something positive to aim yourself towards will always help
quantum physics in something that may help as it goes some way to explaining vibrational attraction, consciousness clouds etc but could also make your head hurt a great deal too. there`s also a school of thought that nothing we think is truly original, we`re just receivers for thoughts that are already bouncing round the universe and we pick up on them when the time is right
but it`s all just theory as far as I`m concerned. currently I definitely have a large brew and some hot cross buns and know 100% they will be entering my face very soon
hope your worries pass quickly
yes for years, ultimately there`s no one can say it`s this or it`s that. everyone has times when you think `what`s the point` or `where`s this all heading` but as with most things finding a distraction or something positive to aim yourself towards will always help
quantum physics in something that may help as it goes some way to explaining vibrational attraction, consciousness clouds etc but could also make your head hurt a great deal too. there`s also a school of thought that nothing we think is truly original, we`re just receivers for thoughts that are already bouncing round the universe and we pick up on them when the time is right
but it`s all just theory as far as I`m concerned. currently I definitely have a large brew and some hot cross buns and know 100% they will be entering my face very soon
hope your worries pass quickly
Thanks I hope it passes quickly.
I worried about Solipsism and being the only one who existed for months. My head got bored and I moved on
Now this is another one of these questions and I’ve become obsessed with my thoughts and worry I am a robot. I worry I will go mad or something?
It started a few days ago and my head decided to focus on it and I googled lots and it never helped too much but I mean if I was controlled surely I wouldn’t be programmed to search for answers like this?
I worry about my thoughts a lot as I have ocd and worry why I get the thoughts?
DO you think its a wise idea to be reading up on philosophical theories like this Phil?
Mulling over indepth about us being robots controlled by god is not helpful for you, given your current mental health issues. Surely focusing on your known OCD issues and reading up on help for that is a more positive use of time?
I don't know if these types of thinking are usual for you, but if they aren't and it is a new manifestation of your thought processes then perhaps you should mention them to the medic responsible for your medications/mental health well-being.
DO you think its a wise idea to be reading up on philosophical theories like this Phil?
Mulling over indepth about us being robots controlled by god is not helpful for you, given your current mental health issues. Surely focusing on your known OCD issues and reading up on help for that is a more positive use of time?
I don't know if these types of thinking are usual for you, but if they aren't and it is a new manifestation of your thought processes then perhaps you should mention them to the medic responsible for your medications/mental health well-being.
No they are not unusual because a few months ago I worried about solipsism that’s the fear you are the only one that exists and life is an illusion. I was obsessed with that for months until my mind got bored. Deep questions of life and existence has troubled me for a while now and sometimes worry me in the same way at contamination worries affect me.
To be fair i have not spoke about them in a few months but they keep cropping up and this worry I’ve had is a similar pattern to my other ocd where it takes over my mind and I google :huh:
MyNameIsTerry
10-01-19, 22:25
With all this stuff there is a question of whether it's a search for something, a way to cover over something you think is lacking or whether it's truly a mental health problem. It can certainly be a problem and then it comes back to tackling it in the ways we've discussed or that you can read about.
But changing the question from "is there a God" to "does God run our minds" to "am I making it all up in a brain in a jar" to "some AI is controlling the brain in the jar" to even "perhaps it's really just a hamster running around peddling for us all" can be the same issue whether it crosses between OCD "themes" as these themes are sufferer's labels and to a professional all fall under obsessive based OCD issues.
Do you feel you are searching for something? Do you feel something is lacking? Or is this just all the usual OCD stuff that has popped into your head and you can't seem to shake it and make all the same mistakes as with the other OCD themes?
With all this stuff there is a question of whether it's a search for something, a way to cover over something you think is lacking or whether it's truly a mental health problem. It can certainly be a problem and then it comes back to tackling it in the ways we've discussed or that you can read about.
But changing the question from "is there a God" to "does God run our minds" to "am I making it all up in a brain in a jar" to "some AI is controlling the brain in the jar" to even "perhaps it's really just a hamster running around peddling for us all" can be the same issue whether it crosses between OCD "themes" as these themes are sufferer's labels and to a professional all fall under obsessive based OCD issues.
Do you feel you are searching for something? Do you feel something is lacking? Or is this just all the usual OCD stuff that has popped into your head and you can't seem to shake it and make all the same mistakes as with the other OCD themes?
I think it’s a mix of everything searching for something yes I have had this existence worry for quite a few years now. Since I had a breakdown in 2016 I experienced life in a different perspective and I worried if people played some sort of role in my life or if they actually existed or I existed.
But I agree generally it’s an ocd thing something pops in my head and I can’t shake it off whether it be germs or existence type thinking. Uncertainty is definitely a common theme questions nobody can answer like was my letter box contaminated or is there a god or the solipsism stuff.
I think I have run all this by my head and I admit it may all seem unlikely maybe we are all here together and everything is legit and as it seems but I have ocd which is a doubting disease and my head goes with that one more
Like lately my ocd has been like if I buy something I have a thought it went near by dirty laundry in the bathroom so won’t use it. My head just sort of goes with it.
I believe the issue seems to be ocd do you agree? :huh:
I don't think life has any definite meaning to it. Not as far as I'm aware of, anyway.
The meaning of life to me is just that, life. To live. To have the human experience of emotions and connection. To Love, to hurt. To be excited, to be mad, to be thrilled and to sleep. To take in each moment and breath knowing you're having a human experience and to for whenever possible enjoy it.
Babies are so full of Joy, people may say otherwise but their natural state is joy and a thirst for life, a desire to learn more, to play to be in a natural state. As we get older we forget what our natural state is(society helps with that).
But yeah for me I enjoy sitting and pondering if there's any more out there and just how amazing and unbelievable everything is, drives me potty sometimes wishing I knew everything but i don't think our minds are even capable of comprehending anything close to the true answer. So I guess we are not meant to know it all.
That depends on how you look at it. One might argue that genetic survival is the meaning of life. But I think you are looking at it from the subjective experience point of view. To that I say there is no meaning but the one you wish to give to it.
Perhaps a bit esoteric, but I also do not believe in the notion of free will. What we experience is an illusion of free will. I can give you an example: think of the name if five movies... Do that before continuing reading...
You had the possibility to choose out dozens if not hundreds of titles, yet you did not have the freedom to freely pick out of that mass of information. The titles pop up in your head so to speak, you are merely the observer of those thoughts.
The quest for meaning is an illusion to me as well. I think our world (and the universe) is beautiful as it is without any human given meaning. I suppose it’s even a bit arrogant to say that there is some unique meaning to life.
That’s my two cents on it.
I’ve been feeling awful past few days. I almost feel like a brain in a jar with no control over my thoughts.
Sometimes it feels impossible to be in my head with all these negative thoughts popping around
I’ve become obesssed about where my thoughts come from :blush:
MyNameIsTerry
12-01-19, 23:41
I think it’s a mix of everything searching for something yes I have had this existence worry for quite a few years now. Since I had a breakdown in 2016 I experienced life in a different perspective and I worried if people played some sort of role in my life or if they actually existed or I existed.
But I agree generally it’s an ocd thing something pops in my head and I can’t shake it off whether it be germs or existence type thinking. Uncertainty is definitely a common theme questions nobody can answer like was my letter box contaminated or is there a god or the solipsism stuff.
I think I have run all this by my head and I admit it may all seem unlikely maybe we are all here together and everything is legit and as it seems but I have ocd which is a doubting disease and my head goes with that one more
Like lately my ocd has been like if I buy something I have a thought it went near by dirty laundry in the bathroom so won’t use it. My head just sort of goes with it.
I believe the issue seems to be ocd do you agree? :huh:
Some of this thinking is natural and having big life events, or even seeing something that makes you think like a documentary about someone suffering, can spark periods of this in anyone. But when you see negative traits emerging e.g. the OCD cycles, reassurance seeking, obsessive levels of searching out things, etc then it's worth taking a look at whether this you are being drawn down the wrong path. Even the healthy becomes unhealthy when this happens.
Yes, if you are noticing similarities then OCD is a likely culprit or at least a big factor. That means you can take a more generic approach to tackling it and not allow yourself to be too drawn into the theme itself.
WiredIncorrectly
13-01-19, 14:46
This is a question I've been seeking the answer to for a very long time. I've been around the block looking for answers.
I started with Christianity at around 18. Friend took me to church as I was locked out of my house while my parents were away. It was raining. I became interested in religion. Good things started to happen in my life and I was feeling great. But somewhere I fell off around 20. I looked to science for answers and started studying quantum theory, and physics. Still not satisfied I studied spirituality and other religions. Hindu, Buddhist, Islam etc.
I still found no answers but I had a lot of dots that were not connected. I then moved onto spirituality and found speakers like Alan Watts. And this opened a whole new world for me. I'm still very much involved in studying spirituality.
But now, at the age of 35 I'm back around to God again. My experiences, and my learning, have taught me so much that I could talk forever on this topic. Everything I've learned over the years is like pieces to a jigsaw. Some pieces don't fit this jigsaw at all, but some do. Eventually you start to see the patterns.
The meaning of life is to transcend into higher dimensions. To do that, you need to learn and be free of any anxieties or worries. There are dimensions that exist around us right now that we can not perceive. Just like a cartoon character can't perceive 3D (if said character could experience). In a world full of 9-5, materialism, and a world that survives only for money it's virtually impossible. It's why you'll hear people say they're going to the mountain. To get away, and learn.
At some time in the distant past I believe humans knew how to communicate spiritually. That information for whatever reason is lost and humans no longer know how to do it. It's like language, if you can't speak a language you can't communicate. I feel like we knew how to connect with nature. Look at cannabis, mushrooms, DMT etc. There is a purpose for them, and there is a purpose for us.
Mushrooms are a strange one. I've never taken them, but I have studied them and read so many trip reports and videos. And I believe that people can connect spiritually with these mind altering plants if done safely and correctly. Problem is, very few know how to guide a mushroom trip for a positive spiritually rewarding experience. They're misunderstood. It often begs to question why such plants are made illegal. I can completely understand synthetic drugs, or drugs that require manufacturing (heroin from opium, cocaine from coca). That's different. Opium is a pain relief plant that when used correctly works magic, but when abused causes hardship and addiction. Because a lot of people want to escape the pain of this world.
I've been contemplating a DMT healing center in the Netherlands so I can connect with the spirit world and learn. I'm building up my physical and mental strength before I attempt it.
Here's what I do know though ... everything is vibrating frequency. That in itself is mind blowing. Did you also know trees communicate? And when an oak tree dies it leaves it's wisdom for all neighboring trees of a similar species. They communicate with each other. Every thing on this earth is made of the same fundamental particle. After I learned that I realized I know very little about this world at all.
The world starts in your imagination. Your reality is fabricated around your experiences and what you learn. Your outcome in life is dictated by only you.
Thanks for the replies
So how can I shift this idea that god is controlling my thoughts, sitting filtering into my head and me effectively being a rebot or puppet on a strings? And how do I trust free will?
Even if we control thoughts there may be no free will. It’s all very confusing and makes me feel awful and anxious :ohmy:
The reason I advised you to separate these 'theoretical' thoughts from your 'practical' OCD rituals etc is because you can very easily lose touch with reality. You have free will to throw a towel you believe is contaminated away but there are no answers to philosophical questions such as God controlling your thoughts.
Of course all this is an extension and expression of your anxiety/OCD, but you must see the danger here. Many people end up having a breakdown when they lose touch with reality and you've also been there, Phil. That's why I advised you to deal with your anxiety/OCD: thoughts, rituals and compulsions you have the power to challenge and treat, rather than philosophical questions that cannot be answered objectively.
WiredIncorrectly
13-01-19, 17:09
Thanks for the replies
So how can I shift this idea that god is controlling my thoughts, sitting filtering into my head and me effectively being a rebot or puppet on a strings? And how do I trust free will?
Even if we control thoughts there may be no free will. It’s all very confusing and makes me feel awful and anxious :ohmy:
This could end up down a real deep rabbit hole very fast. That's the beauty of philosophy and wonder.
It's natural to question things like "do we have free will?". This is a huge debate in philosophy and neuroscience that nobody can answer. But that's no reason to fear it?
I think it comes down to how you interpret what you're feeling. You're scared that you may not have free will? Let's imagine for a moment God pulls the strings and it's all pre-planned and there is no free will.
What would your fear be in that situation? Because I, and everybody else on this planet would also have no free will.
Let's imagine that it's true.
Does that stop you from experiencing things that are new to you? Me writing this to you is not something I had any knowledge of even if it was pre planned. I'm still enjoying the experience.
There are theories out there that are not religious theories, but still agree that humans are born knowing everything and our life is a journey unlocking all the boxes in our brain. The brain itself is not understood at all.
Here's a fun little fact related to the brain. It was project MK Ultra that was groundbreaking in discovering about the brain, and psychology. That's not a conspiracy theory either. Leading and respected medical professionals in the psychology field were conducting unethical, inhumane, experiments on people without their knowledge. Instantly losing their credibility, but their work is relied on today. That's why we know what we know today about many mental disorders. As I said, this rabbit hole goes deep.
There's theories for everything. If you remove the fear and the anxiety I think you'd enjoy philosophy :)
The reason I advised you to separate these 'theoretical' thoughts from your 'practical' OCD rituals etc is because you can very easily lose touch with reality. You have free will to throw a towel you believe is contaminated away but there are no answers to philosophical questions such as God controlling your thoughts.
Of course all this is an extension and expression of your anxiety/OCD, but you must see the danger here. Many people end up having a breakdown when they lose touch with reality and you've also been there, Phil. That's why I advised you to deal with your anxiety/OCD: thoughts, rituals and compulsions you have the power to challenge and treat, rather than philosophical questions that cannot be answered objectively.
So do you think having these types of thoughts can cause a breakdown and lose touch with reality?
I mean the solipsism thoughts were pretty intense I really felt I was losing my mind and I believed nobody else existed but my head moved on from these two thoughts.
But yes I always worry I will lose my mind. That said do people lose there mind from having these anxious thought patterns? My understanding was it was due to work stress, life stress and these sort of worries.
I mean what can a doctor do for you if you have these thoughts? I’m already on some medication.
My anxiety and ocd are difficult because people told me to stop doing complusions I did this and it meant my anxiety was being replaced by other worries. My head has went with this worry now and sadly once I have these types of thoughts or any contamination worry I find it hard to shift.
I still don’t believe others exist my head has went with the solipsism even though I try not to think of it.
But yes I want to feel better but how? I keep having contamination and thoughts on life how can I ever feel well?
WiredIncorrectly
13-01-19, 17:15
So do you think having these types of thoughts can cause a breakdown and lose touch with reality?
100000% yes. Happened to me. But remember, you are creating the thoughts so it's your OCD/anxiety that will cause the breakdown. Conspiracy theories can take you down that path. I try and steer well clear of them.
This could end up down a real deep rabbit hole very fast. That's the beauty of philosophy and wonder.
It's natural to question things like "do we have free will?". This is a huge debate in philosophy and neuroscience that nobody can answer. But that's no reason to fear it?
I think it comes down to how you interpret what you're feeling. You're scared that you may not have free will? Let's imagine for a moment God pulls the strings and it's all pre-planned and there is no free will.
What would your fear be in that situation? Because I, and everybody else on this planet would also have no free will.
Let's imagine that it's true.
Does that stop you from experiencing things that are new to you? Me writing this to you is not something I had any knowledge of even if it was pre planned. I'm still enjoying the experience.
There are theories out there that are not religious theories, but still agree that humans are born knowing everything and our life is a journey unlocking all the boxes in our brain. The brain itself is not understood at all.
Here's a fun little fact. It was project MK Ultra that was groundbreaking in discovering about the brain, and psychology. That's not a conspiracy theory either.
There's theories for everything. If you remove the fear and the anxiety I think you'd enjoy philosophy :)
Not sure I can enjoy philosophy as such but I enjoy a good horror movie or The Trueman show and Adjustment Bureau they touch up on free will and ask questions and they are great movies.
And you are right maybe we all don’t have free will but my anxiety makes me fear nobody else exists. My fear is someoneone picked this house for me or my partner. I mean I read a comment before saying it appears we have free will I agree with this.
But i have a genuine fear of my thoughts and worry where they come from so the ocd lead me onto the god stuff not saying I even believe in a god.
The worry that I am in a simulation felt awful I would struggle though each day worrying I was mad and these new pattern of thoughts are similar yet they all fal into the same thing “existential” thoughts :unsure:
---------- Post added at 17:18 ---------- Previous post was at 17:16 ----------
100000% yes. Happened to me. But remember, you are creating the thoughts so it's your OCD/anxiety that will cause the breakdown. Conspiracy theories can take you down that path. I try and steer well clear of them.
When I had my breakdown in 2016 what happened was I worried about losing my job and my mortgage and I lost touch with reality but I wasn’t aware of it.
It was actually during my recovery I had the existence questions :huh:
Not sure I can enjoy philosophy as such but I enjoy a good horror movie or The Trueman show and Adjustment Bureau they touch up on free will and ask questions and they are great movies.
And you are right maybe we all don’t have free will but my anxiety makes me fear nobody else exists. My fear is someoneone picked this house for me or my partner. I mean I read a comment before saying it appears we have free will I agree with this.
But i have a genuine fear of my thoughts and worry where they come from so the ocd lead me onto the god stuff not saying I even believe in a god.
The worry that I am in a simulation felt awful I would struggle though each day worrying I was mad and these new pattern of thoughts are similar yet they all fal into the same thing “existential” thoughts :unsure:
---------- Post added at 17:18 ---------- Previous post was at 17:16 ----------
When I had my breakdown in 2016 what happened was I worried about losing my job and my mortgage and I lost touch with reality but I wasn’t aware of it.
It was actually during my recovery I had the existence questions :huh:
There are many, many reasons why people lose touch with reality. Depends on the axiom at which you start: some people are very grounded in themselves, others not. Some have strong support networks, others feel isolated and alone. You cannot say there is a single reason/situation which leads down the path to a breakdown. But losing one's sense of self and 'their' grasp on reality is a prime cause in the psychological breakdown of an individual.
There are many, many reasons why people lose touch with reality. Depends on the axiom at which you start: some people are very grounded in themselves, others not. Some have strong support networks, others feel isolated and alone. You cannot say there is a single reason/situation which leads down the path to a breakdown. But losing one's sense of self and 'their' grasp on reality is a prime cause in the psychological breakdown of an individual.
If that’s the case I would have had lots of breakdowns with my depersonalization as I have lost my sense of self for many months of years on and off :huh:
WiredIncorrectly
13-01-19, 18:20
Not sure I can enjoy philosophy as such but I enjoy a good horror movie or The Trueman show and Adjustment Bureau they touch up on free will and ask questions and they are great movies.
And you are right maybe we all don’t have free will but my anxiety makes me fear nobody else exists. My fear is someoneone picked this house for me or my partner. I mean I read a comment before saying it appears we have free will I agree with this.
But i have a genuine fear of my thoughts and worry where they come from so the ocd lead me onto the god stuff not saying I even believe in a god.
The worry that I am in a simulation felt awful I would struggle though each day worrying I was mad and these new pattern of thoughts are similar yet they all fal into the same thing “existential” thoughts :unsure:
---------- Post added at 17:18 ---------- Previous post was at 17:16 ----------
When I had my breakdown in 2016 what happened was I worried about losing my job and my mortgage and I lost touch with reality but I wasn’t aware of it.
It was actually during my recovery I had the existence questions :huh:
I don't generally follow the idea that we have no free will. I was using it as an example.
Edited: I read it wrong.
Yes it’s difficult I just want to feel better
I know these sort of thoughts linger for months sometimes
ankietyjoe
13-01-19, 18:28
My take on this is that life has no meaning. Nothing has meaning. Meaning is a relatively abstract notion that humans invented in order to try and make sense of things. In which case.....life means whatever you want it to mean.
The way you experience life is a series of past experiences that your brain processes and compares with what's happening right now. Reality is actually an illusion of your own perception....again....meaning that reality is what YOU make it.
Philosophy is just a series of arguments about whose illusions of perception are more 'right'.
I mean the deeper you delve, the more you realise just how much everything has to do with perception. That's even how anxiety works, the brains perception of danger.
WiredIncorrectly
13-01-19, 18:31
My take on this is that life has no meaning. Nothing has meaning. Meaning is a relatively abstract notion that humans invented in order to try and make sense of things. In which case.....life means whatever you want it to mean.
The way you experience life is a series of past experiences that your brain processes and compares with what's happening right now. Reality is actually an illusion of your own perception....again....meaning that reality is what YOU make it.
Philosophy is just a series of arguments about whose illusions of perception are more 'right'.
I mean the deeper you delve, the more you realise just how much everything has to do with perception. That's even how anxiety works, the brains perception of danger.
Very clearly explained. Love it.
I was going to post that exact thing. I struggle to understand my purpose. I'm 42 and feel I have no purpose, no meaning.
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---------- Post added at 19:10 ---------- Previous post was at 19:08 ----------
The Trueman show is a take on 7 ages of man
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WiredIncorrectly
13-01-19, 19:41
I was going to post that exact thing. I struggle to understand my purpose. I'm 42 and feel I have no purpose, no meaning.
Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 19:10 ---------- Previous post was at 19:08 ----------
The Trueman show is a take on 7 ages of man
Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk
I think it's a pretty normal feeling as you get older to question more about life. Depending on how you perceive it, it could be an opportunity to learn.
I've learned that when we're younger we have aspirations and goals that we want to get to by the time we're 30, or 40, or whatever age. And when we fail to meet those aspirations and we're at that age and failed to achieve what we wanted to ... it can create some depression which spawns questions about purpose, and life. At least that's how I felt.
The meaning, and the purpose, is whatever you make it.
MyNameIsTerry
13-01-19, 19:45
The reason I advised you to separate these 'theoretical' thoughts from your 'practical' OCD rituals etc is because you can very easily lose touch with reality. You have free will to throw a towel you believe is contaminated away but there are no answers to philosophical questions such as God controlling your thoughts.
Of course all this is an extension and expression of your anxiety/OCD, but you must see the danger here. Many people end up having a breakdown when they lose touch with reality and you've also been there, Phil. That's why I advised you to deal with your anxiety/OCD: thoughts, rituals and compulsions you have the power to challenge and treat, rather than philosophical questions that cannot be answered objectively.
I agree. One of the big problems with anxiety is delving too much into it's themes. You need to know your enemy but there is a point where you realise you are searching out information that is beyond what you need to work on it just as those who flit from one "cure" or "guru" do so and never get better.
I big part of recovery is about learning not to be sucked in to then use negative behaviours. An easy test for this is to think of something random. Does it bother you? Why not? My plastic recycling bin is blue. I don't care. It doesn't cause me any issues with my mental health.
This is what you are aiming for with intrusive thoughts. See the thought, think "meh, whatever". Thought goes no further.
HAers, see lump, "meh", move on.
Or you can feed the negative obsession wolf and let it pull you further in.
But in OCD, as you say, you can tackle other areas such as the compulsions which allow for a gradual elimination approach. You end up dismantling obsessions through reduction of your reactions this way just as you do by reducing your emotional reactions. You do both to recover but you might find it easier to make headway with one more than another.
And I think you have to be wary of discussing beliefs too. If this is about OCD then having a big discussion about the meaning of life is irrelevant and may actually be damaging. If you can't reframe a conclusion and stick to using the tools to combat the anxiety al you do is create a wider world of doubts to fight against.
---------- Post added at 19:45 ---------- Previous post was at 19:41 ----------
If that’s the case I would have had lots of breakdowns with my depersonalization as I have lost my sense of self for many months of years on and off :huh:
Phil, breakdowns can come from many reasons. The issues can be small yet the anxiety evoked so large it takes you that far.
That doesn't mean you have to lose touch with reality, some breakdowns don't go into that. Mine didn't. It's also more a sufferers term so can mean many things.
DP/DR don't have to mean a breakdown, they are symptoms a lot of the time and even natural body responses to being overwhelmed. Many suffer DP/DR as a result of high levels of anxiety/panic as seen across many threads on here. It can be just as we feel washed out or fatigued from intense emotions.
I agree. One of the big problems with anxiety is delving too much into it's themes. You need to know your enemy but there is a point where you realise you are searching out information that is beyond what you need to work on it just as those who flit from one "cure" or "guru" do so and never get better.
I big part of recovery is about learning not to be sucked in to then use negative behaviours. An easy test for this is to think of something random. Does it bother you? Why not? My plastic recycling bin is blue. I don't care. It doesn't cause me any issues with my mental health.
This is what you are aiming for with intrusive thoughts. See the thought, think "meh, whatever". Thought goes no further.
HAers, see lump, "meh", move on.
Or you can feed the negative obsession wolf and let it pull you further in.
But in OCD, as you say, you can tackle other areas such as the compulsions which allow for a gradual elimination approach. You end up dismantling obsessions through reduction of your reactions this way just as you do by reducing your emotional reactions. You do both to recover but you might find it easier to make headway with one more than another.
And I think you have to be wary of discussing beliefs too. If this is about OCD then having a big discussion about the meaning of life is irrelevant and may actually be damaging. If you can't reframe a conclusion and stick to using the tools to combat the anxiety al you do is create a wider world of doubts to fight against.
So what do I do? Having tried therapy and that failed I feel a little stuck.
My ocd has gone from mild to severe and I believe areas are “forever contaminated” and the questions of life, free will and solipsism are seeded inro my head. The fear is never enjoying life again? Always having these doubts?
Each time I have these questions it always feels worse as someone says there is no answer for it.
Over the months and years found looking for answers never helped and only distraction works. Sitting here feeling my thoughts ain’t my own don’t make sense as being a puppet on a string wouldn’t really living and it would be hard to control everybody and would defeat all science so I have to remind myself of that
---------- Post added at 19:47 ---------- Previous post was at 19:47 ----------
So because I have these thoughts I’m having a breakdown? How do they differ to solispism?
MyNameIsTerry
13-01-19, 19:55
No, Phil. I was adding onto a point, KK's reasons are best left to him to explain. I'm aware you've mentioned certain periods in your mental health history which I would assume are what were being thought of.
My points are more about obsession. You are not in great control of your obsessive-compulsive cycles and adding themes like this are going to be rabbit holes to you. It's like taking one of those who struggle on the HA board (think of the long repetitive threads) and giving them a book on all the cancers. You will find most of those who have talked about these types of OCD themes on here have found it's more productive to go the acceptance route and learn not to be sucked in rather than chase an evidence route as it is more likely to suck you in. The latter might be more effective when you have a therapist ensuring you aren't veering from the path.
That's why my earlier question was whether this was a genuine need for something or another theme from your OCD. A theme just means doing what we have already been saying to you on all your threads. OCD themes have nuances which can mean an element of tailoring to strategies, counter evidence can differ, OCD isn't about all these themes to the professional it's about the cycles underneath them.
No one is saying you are having a breakdown. And I have always questioned severity because whilst there are examples in your replacement compulsions which seem extreme from a financial point of view there are considerations about work, social life, etc that are viewed by a professional when judging it. However, this is for a professional to assess and if you feel that way it's best to ask for their help. If you are able to keep working, get married, have your holidays, etc then these are positives that you can regard as keeping you going. If you see yourself struggling to keep them going then it's worth reaching out for help as daily life & routine are important to mental health.
It's a shame your mental health care is so patchy and you are limited to one psych assessment a year. You are struggling to understand such a lot and fear and uncertainty about things which don't give you a concrete answer just add to your confusion.
In my opinion you need a decent psychiatrist/psychologist who could update your diagnosis and meds regime. This could really help you see the woods from the trees. The current cursory arrangement is pretty pointless.
MyNameIsTerry
13-01-19, 20:09
It's a shame your mental health care is so patchy and you are limited to one psych assessment a year. You are struggling to understand such a lot and fear and uncertainty about things which don't give you a concrete answer just add to your confusion.
In my opinion you need a decent psychiatrist/psychologist who could update your diagnosis and meds regime. This could really help you see the woods from the trees. The current cursory arrangement is pretty pointless.
Agreed. I think the current treatment is pretty questionable. It smacks of a box ticker for the doctor.
No, Phil. I was adding onto a point, KK's reasons are best left to him to explain. I'm aware you've mentioned certain periods in your mental health history which I would assume are what were being thought of.
My points are more about obsession. You are not in great control of your obsessive-compulsive cycles and adding themes like this are going to be rabbit holes to you. It's like taking one of those who struggle on the HA board (think of the long repetitive threads) and giving them a book on all the cancers. You will find most of those who have talked about these types of OCD themes on here have found it's more productive to go the acceptance route and learn not to be sucked in rather than chase an evidence route as it is more likely to suck you in. The latter might be more effective when you have a therapist ensuring you aren't veering from the path.
That's why my earlier question was whether this was a genuine need for something or another theme from your OCD. A theme just means doing what we have already been saying to you on all your threads. OCD themes have nuances which can mean an element of tailoring to strategies, counter evidence can differ, OCD isn't about all these themes to the professional it's about the cycles underneath them.
No one is saying you are having a breakdown. And I have always questioned severity because whilst there are examples in your replacement compulsions which seem extreme from a financial point of view there are considerations about work, social life, etc that are viewed by a professional when judging it. However, this is for a professional to assess and if you feel that way it's best to ask for their help. If you are able to keep working, get married, have your holidays, etc then these are positives that you can regard as keeping you going. If you see yourself struggling to keep them going then it's worth reaching out for help as daily life & routine are important to mental health.
That’s very true we picked up on it in another topic about how severe my ocd was and I explained I still holiday and work ect.
For me I want to feel good though not feel rubbish due to the ocd. The solipsism worries made me feel awful I struggled to get through the day believing that not one person existed. How I can say these worries trouble me less but having had the thought about free will that’s just as bad as solipsism and again I go through each day analysing my thoughts thinking how awful it would be if we don’t have a choice. Each time the patterns are the same I go down the rabbit hole and feel awful worrying my mind gets bored then it’s something else. I can also find contamination crippling as I spend all day worrying feeling my house is ruined feeling I need to replace something to have relief again.
I can only stress that these if thoughts seem very real my head thinks it and decides to go with it. There may be no proof but that doesn’t seem to matter there may be contradictions where I don’t worry about the washing yet I do another time.
I wake up feeling anxious. The thoughts are just “there” in my head. Whatever the subject is I find myself starting the day believing these thoughts. I also said it’s stuff that I can’t prove stuff with no proof. It’s a bit of a compulsion and checking going on so the ocd is at work here. The fear offcourse is lack of control over the thoughts and I dwell on where they come from. Many have explained it but I sort of ignored it. I realise I need to take some responsibility for how I feel. If I was controlled by god everything would be pointless so that takes us back to those existence questions in another topic we discussed during my solipsism worries.
So what do I want? Well help with these thoughts just being “there” and I like to hear from people with similar experiences. I have went through phases where my ocd is mild and I feel Normal and well again but as I said I moved house last April and since then I have never felt well. I felt better over Xmas and then these new worries came when I tried to fight my compulsions. People said stop doing them so I did and the anxiety bit back stronger :blush:
Yep, I'm in agreement with Terry and Pulisa.
It's a shame your mental health care is so patchy and you are limited to one psych assessment a year. You are struggling to understand such a lot and fear and uncertainty about things which don't give you a concrete answer just add to your confusion.
In my opinion you need a decent psychiatrist/psychologist who could update your diagnosis and meds regime. This could really help you see the woods from the trees. The current cursory arrangement is pretty pointless.
We know I have bipolar episodes in the past and I know I have ocd and anxiety.
I have tried therapy and it’s not worked im not sure there is anything else to diagnose despite what you think.
I would agree there has been a lack of help and support and free therapy for my anxiety and ocd and it was been left to get worse but what else can I do expect to do private again :huh:
Each time I have these questions it always feels worse as someone says there is no answer for it.
So because I have these thoughts I’m having a breakdown? How do they differ to solispism?
This is my point: you're asking theoretical questions that have subjective answers based on someone's belief system. As I said, there is no objective answer or meaning. Only what you wish to believe based on models.
I didn't suggest you were having a breakdown. But as Terry put it, you will be sucked into a rabbit hole of themes which have no definitive answers. Moreover, your search for these answers is being driven by your OCD which in turn is fuelled by anxiety and ultimately fear.
You're not approaching this in an empirical way as a philosophy student would. You are emotionally involved on a deep level which is why I said it can be dangerous.
I studied all this years ago and came away with more questions than answers.
MyNameIsTerry
13-01-19, 20:28
This is my point: you're asking theoretical questions that have subjective answers based on someone's belief system. As I said, there is no objective answer or meaning. Only what you wish to believe based on models.
I didn't suggest you were having a breakdown. But as Terry put it, you will be sucked into a rabbit hole of themes which have no definitive answers. Moreover, your search for these answers is being driven by your OCD which in turn is fuelled by anxiety and ultimately fear.
You're not approaching this in an empirical way as a philosophy student would. You are emotionally involved on a deep level which is why I said it can be dangerous.
I studied all this years ago and came away with more questions than answers.
That All-or-nothing thinking issue loves themes like this. If you haven't got control of living with the grey areas in your anxiety this type of theme has got to be one of the worst in OCD for raising questions?
A busy OCD mind can take all the models you mentioned, twist them all around and blue it all, even create new models just as anyone could anyway.
It's also a way unscrupulous people get hold of those with mental health issues and with the internet there must be millions of sites out there with their own take on it all?
Like you say, it's being approached with many potential levels of bias involved from someone struggling to see where bias is already influencing their mental health.
This is my point: you're asking theoretical questions that have subjective answers based on someone's belief system. As I said, there is no objective answer or meaning. Only what you wish to believe based on models.
I didn't suggest you were having a breakdown. But as Terry put it, you will be sucked into a rabbit hole of themes which have no definitive answers. Moreover, your search for these answers is being driven by your OCD which in turn is fuelled by anxiety and ultimately fear.
You're not approaching this in an empirical way as a philosophy student would. You are emotionally involved on a deep level which is why I said it can be dangerous.
I studied all this years ago and came away with more questions than answers.
With solipsism I researched it into the ground and I agree I found no answers and no proof. I mean not saying I’m free of it the doubt is still there but I drew my own conclusions.
The issue really these type of thoughts are bad when you have anxiety as they make you feel awful it’s hard to describe but you just feel a blanket of worry you feel sick and all these anxiety type symptoms hit you and you feel your life will never be the same. It was at that point I went to see the theripst as I had to talk about it
---------- Post added at 20:30 ---------- Previous post was at 20:29 ----------
That All-or-nothing thinking issue loves themes like this. If you haven't got control of living with the grey areas in your anxiety this type of theme has got to be one of the worst in OCD for raising questions?
A busy OCD mind can take all the models you mentioned, twist them all around and blue it all, even create new models just as anyone could anyway.
It's also a way unscrupulous people get hold of those with mental health issues and with the internet there must be millions of sites out there with their own take on it all?
Like you say, it's being approached with many potential levels of bias involved from someone struggling to see where bias is already influencing their mental health.
I have learned having ocd it’s much more than checking if your door is locked you can ocd over everything and it can be crippling. In past year I have really seen ocd in a new light
MyNameIsTerry
13-01-19, 20:37
Yep, so did I, phil. I never knew much about it until I went through it. Getting intrusive thoughts about things like violence didn't seem possible to me but reading about it greatly helped me and with not being a HAer I didn't have as much skew about it being something worse than some do.
Yes, you are right to point out how your severity is situational. My anxiety started outside of the home but if anything it got worse in the home as retreated. After my relapse the experiences I had with very high levels of constant anxiety in my living room left me with more problems being able to be anything other than agitated. When I had the breakdown before that there was a similar issue with upstairs.
I don't mean to imply it's not horrible to you, I understand it is, just that it's my opinion that when it takes over everything you know it's getting more severe and it time to reach out. I can appreciate how isolated situations can worsen in severity and that too can mean it's time to seek help. I just think you can at least hang onto the situations where it's les intense and see them as positives compared to the non stop 24/7 style that becomes overwhelming and nothing seems positive, if you see what I mean?
No, Phil. I was adding onto a point, KK's reasons are best left to him to explain. I'm aware you've mentioned certain periods in your mental health history which I would assume are what were being thought of.
My points are more about obsession. You are not in great control of your obsessive-compulsive cycles and adding themes like this are going to be rabbit holes to you. It's like taking one of those who struggle on the HA board (think of the long repetitive threads) and giving them a book on all the cancers. You will find most of those who have talked about these types of OCD themes on here have found it's more productive to go the acceptance route and learn not to be sucked in rather than chase an evidence route as it is more likely to suck you in. The latter might be more effective when you have a therapist ensuring you aren't veering from the path.
T
Quite right. Just as HA focuses on symptoms and ostensible "illnesses", OCD focuses on themes. Both place greater importance in symptoms and themes because both are suffering from an anxiety disorder which is going untreated.
But when the themes enter the realms of philosophy, or any other theoretical subject, belief systems and all manner of subjective viewpoints enter the fray.
Yep, so did I, phil. I never knew much about it until I went through it. Getting intrusive thoughts about things like violence didn't seem possible to me but reading about it greatly helped me and with not being a HAer I didn't have as much skew about it being something worse than some do.
Yes, you are right to point out how your severity is situational. My anxiety started outside of the home but if anything it got worse in the home as retreated. After my relapse the experiences I had with very high levels of constant anxiety in my living room left me with more problems being able to be anything other than agitated. When I had the breakdown before that there was a similar issue with upstairs.
I don't mean to imply it's not horrible to you, I understand it is, just that it's my opinion that when it takes over everything you know it's getting more severe and it time to reach out. I can appreciate how isolated situations can worsen in severity and that too can mean it's time to seek help. I just think you can at least hang onto the situations where it's les intense and see them as positives compared to the non stop 24/7 style that becomes overwhelming and nothing seems positive, if you see what I mean?
I’m not sure if I will seek more therapy or not due to the financial side of things.
I moved house last April so I do wonder why things have not settled down again? Most of my anxiety is under control as I’m on beta blockers again but I still feel quite poor some days and the thoughts keep coming.
Some days I can continue my life feeling normal other days I feel alien and not human and have these existence questions.
Phil. Imagine looking into a mirror. You see a reflection but it is so distorted you don't recognise yourself. This is what theoretical models are like. The reflection is you but it's not an actual true reflection. So in this instance interpretation comes into play. "Interpretation" in this case can be "belief system" too because it is subjective.
Where there is interpretation there is a shift away from fact or truth because there is ambiguity.
Perhaps you can understand it better this way?
Phil. Imagine looking into a mirror. You see a reflection but it is so distorted you don't recognise yourself. This is what theoretical models are like. The reflection is you but it's not an actual true reflection. So in this instance interpretation comes into play. "Interpretation" in this case can be "belief system" too because it is subjective.
Where there is interpretation there is a shift away from fact or truth because there is ambiguity.
Perhaps you can understand it better this way?
No that seems a bit confusing :shrug:
No that seems a bit confusing :shrug:
Read it a few more times then :lac:
MyNameIsTerry
13-01-19, 21:57
No that seems a bit confusing :shrug:
The image is blurred so you seek to sharpen the image with your own interpretation.
If I draw an animal and then purposely confuse the image and ask you to complete it you may fill in gaps to make a different animal to the original I removed pieces from.
The image is blurred so you seek to sharpen the image with your own interpretation.
If I draw an animal and then purposely confuse the image and ask you to complete it you may fill in gaps to make a different animal to the original I removed pieces from.
Yes I’m a bit lost don’t get what that has so do with the anxiety or ocd :huh:
I was giving you an example of the sort of theoretical questions you've been asking - like the "meaning of life".
Thank you Terry for trying to clarify.
Is it possible we need too much into stuff? At the end of the day we try to get a diagnosis by committee? This will never happen as we're all unwell and have our own opinions and ways of coping that are unique to us.
Sometimes you just have to let go, but you can't as you need an answer, some form of validation. But this won't come.
Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk
WiredIncorrectly
14-01-19, 11:25
Is it possible we need too much into stuff? At the end of the day we try to get a diagnosis by committee? This will never happen as we're all unwell and have our own opinions and ways of coping that are unique to us.
Sometimes you just have to let go, but you can't as you need an answer, some form of validation. But this won't come.
Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk
Actually many of us are of a "sane" mind who have been through similar experiences and are offering insights on how to pull through and how to flip the perspective.
You've actually adopted the stereotypical view of anxiety. If you speak to somebody with anxiety, and they discuss other wordly discussions, it's quit to jump to the conclusion "they're mad" and nullify what they've said because they have a "mental illness".
Whereas, I view anybody who ignores such questions crazy :roflmao:
---------- Post added at 11:25 ---------- Previous post was at 11:17 ----------
This thread has been completely derailed and has wandered off topic.
If after this discussion you're still struggling, seek medical advice. There's a lot of good advice in this thread.
Over and out.
This thread has been completely derailed and has wandered off topic.
If after this discussion you're still struggling, seek medical advice. There's a lot of good advice in this thread.
Over and out.
You think I helped to derail this thread?
I have been trying to forget these thoughts not done anymore googling but the thoughts linger “god controlling thoughts and free will” similar to solipsism and it’s an existence based worry.
How can I shift it? The thing is all these worries whether its contamination or existence they are pretty awful they feel awful and make me feel bad whatever the thought it just feels bad.
The issue with the god thing is I become obsessed with the mind and where thoughts come from and free will and it lingers at the back of my head? Guess it’s because I have an ocd condition? I mean I guess we would all ask these questions surely though I have found solipsism was asked more than the god controlling us thoughts.
So can anybody give me any advice as it feels pretty awful having these thoughts ?
The issue I have is if there was no free will which can’t be proven and things are all planned out is that not just the same as being controlled I mean could thoughts exist independently in such a society I can’t figure that one out
I can’t seem to rid this idea that my thoughts are not my own though?
ankietyjoe
29-01-19, 10:01
The issue I have is if there was no free will which can’t be proven and things are all planned out is that not just the same as being controlled I mean could thoughts exist independently in such a society I can’t figure that one out
I can’t seem to rid this idea that my thoughts are not my own though?
If your experience of life is perception, and you perceive that you DO have choice and act on situations accordingly, does it matter?
Or
Nothing is planned, nothing matters, life's what you make of it and just live in the moment.
Right now you're just creating imaginary problems that don't exist. Thought, doesn't exist. It's gone as fast as it appears, and if you choose to think about something else, your reality changes.
None of this is worth thinking or worrying about.
Anybody read this?
https://www.independ...d-a6722201.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/what-is-cotards-syndrome-the-rare-mental-illness-which-makes-people-think-they-are-dead-a6722201.html)
Back in 2016 I had a breakdown my parents said “He won’t get back” since then I was sure at the time I wasn’t alive or I some how had to get better to get back to normal life.
I also get Solipsism but I wonder if all these words are out here in google just so I can read them I believe in reincarnation but nobody can like prove that life exists outside the brain.
But yeah the symptom above seem familiar because I believed I wasn’t alive and the doctors did lots of ECG tests on me at the time I was sure they would say I wasn’t alive it was scary.
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