I hit my knee hard. What if I broke my femur and I am dying without knowing??

[Kevinor762]

Hi all.

So I gave the CBT thought record a try and I can say it slowed my thoughts down a little. Unfortunately, I am still thinking about it.
I copy pasted the record (see below). Let me know what you guys think. I dont even know how to reassure myself!!!!!!!!!!
:weep::weep::weep::weep::weep::weep::weep::weep:

Where were you?
Home
Emotion or Feeling
Worried, Scared
Negative automatic thought
I hit the right side of my knee really hard on the corner of the wall. What if I broke my femur bone and I am dying without even knowing it?
Evidence that supports the thought
It hurt to hit my knee.
My thoughts are telling me so.
It hurts a bit to walk (joints).
I can feel the pain radiating through my leg.
Evidence that does not support the thought
I can walk.
It does not hurt until I walk, and when I do it only hurts a little.
I hit my knee. Not my femur.
I would know if I broke something.
I feel mostly fine.
Alternative thought Emotion or
feeling
Less Worried, Scared?
Still worried though.
Date
May, 12, 2018

[Fishmanpa]

Good job on the thought record! So, based on the "evidence", what is the conclusion?

Positive thoughts

[venusbluejeans]

You have not broken your femur, you would know and not be able to bear any weight on it and you would be in excruciating pain

[Kevinor762]

But what if a small bone is broken inside me and is causing like a blood clot resulting in death?????????????

[Carys]

Well, good for you for trying the process....one thing...evidence isn't things like 'my thoughts are telling me so'. That's not evidence, that is the thought, an emotion and feeling that took you to the thought record in the first place. So, that part should be taken out of the 'evidence that supports the thought' section. We know your thoughts are telling you so, as that's why you are trying to log.

In the 'evidence that does not support the thought' - how about adding 'I would be in excrutiating pain' , 'I wouldn't be able to walk at all, or even bear weight of any sort', I wouldn't be able to rotate my leg', 'There would be a huge amount of bruising', 'the position of my leg might even be different'. Also...'there would be a lot of swelling', 'I am young, fit and healthy and have strong bones, this is more common in the elderly' and 'I would be probably be crying and wailing' LOL

So, a bit of fine tuning is needed, but it can work - because now if you add all the 'evidence that doesn't support the thought' from the people who have replied on this thread it should be a nice long list. You conclusion should now be clearer ??

I'm really pleased you are trying it though, its a really proactive start.

---------- Post added at 17:18 ---------- Previous post was at 17:13 ----------

Edited after I saw your next post about the blood clot -

So, now you have moved on already, and haven't reached a proper conclusion on your thought record.

The conclusion should be from what everybody has said above, if you add in all the things I also said to add in, you don't have a broken or fractured femur. Therefore this worry....


A femur fracture may cause blood clots to form within the large veins of the thigh....is irrelevant. You don't have a broken femur.

[Fishmanpa]

I read some absolutely incredibly irrational thoughts and fears posted on the forum. I don't doubt the real fear an OP has about these thoughts. I also know in some cases, these thoughts stop individuals in their tracks but in this case and many others, the OPs are going about their lives, going to work, taking care of a family, running errands etc. Also, in this case, the OP is obviously walking, talking and posting on the forum. That alone discounts the fear. It's like the heart attack posts. If indeed someone broke their femur or was actually having a heart attack, they'd be in the ER, not on the forum. Case closed!

Positive thoughts

[Carys]

I think thats a very valid point FMP- if you are questioning 'have I broken or could I have broken my femur' then you haven't. Period. You would have absolutely no doubt that you'd done something seriously damaging, if you had done so ! If you can actually sit down and do a bit of writing and then type it out on the internet, then you have not broken even a tiddly widdly anything at all.

---------- Post added at 17:38 ---------- Previous post was at 17:31 ----------

Here's some more things to add to your evidence that supports the fact you've not broken anything....(which I looked up)

The femur is a very strong bone and very hard to break.

A femure fracture is usually the result of great force, like a car accident, serious sports injury or other really severe trauma. (which you didn't have)

The leg could look deformed or even look shorter. (Neither of those will apply)

[Kevinor762]

Hi Carys and Fishmanpa

You always reassure me I don't know how you don't seem annoyed by me by now.
You must have lots of patience so again.. thank you.

I hate it when my brain says to me things like even if you didn't break your femur you might've broken something else. Or damaged your health in whatever way. Eg. I have a blood clot and will die at any moment.

Anyways. I will be continuing with my thought records. Hopefully I can give some updates to you every once in a while?

If you don't mind me asking. Do you have anxiety? Did you overcome it?

Thanks again!!!!

---------- Post added at 13:55 ---------- Previous post was at 13:54 ----------

Well based on the evidence.... my brain tells me

Even though you don't have a broken femur YOU HAVE SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOU!

Yeah I have lots of work to do

---------- Post added at 13:55 ---------- Previous post was at 13:55 ----------


You have not broken your femur, you would know and not be able to bear any weight on it and you would be in excruciating pain

Good point. I hate that I live with anxiety :(

[Carys]

Well, at least the broken femur is out of the equation. :D
Yes, you do have something wrong, you've bumped your knee badly, probably you'll have a bruise and it'll feel all stiff tomorrow. Maybe you did it hard enough to even sprain the tendons and ligaments? So, it might take a week or so to go back to normal. That's the 'wrong'. Nothing more serious.

I had health anxiety very badly in my 20s. Every now and again it rears its head (but very rarely nowadays), but only as a by product of other life stressors. It has become a symptom of feeling low or below par. I got very good at mentally doing what you are doing now - coming up with evidence to prove that it couldn't be something serious, repeating that process over and over until it came naturally to do so. I retrained my brain in how I viewed health 'blips', so that I could (mostly) rationalise and separate serious and important from minor. It takes time, and effort, so if you do both and don't give up.....it should help.


You always reassure me I don't know how you don't seem annoyed by me by now.
You must have lots of patience so again.. thank you.
The thing is, we do sometimes lose patience; but with those people who aren't at least trying to address things, who don't recognise they have health anxiety, and who don't read our posts properly. You do all the above, AND you thank us and are appreciative :)

[Kevinor762]

Hi!
Again thank you!!!!

I was twisting my leg around and I felt something in my butt legit pop (with no sound) out of place.. everything feels fine so here we go: thought record. The reason I'm typing it out is so you can help me with starting off.

I feel confused to what just happened. A bit worried.
Trigger: felt something pop out of place inside my body near my butt/leg.
What if I die. This is probably a result of me hitting my knee earlier.
Evidence: I felt it. Doesn't normally happen ever so I should get to the bottom of this.
Evidence against: I can walk. It doesn't hurt it only felt weird. I feel completely fine.
How I feel now: calm. 5/10 worried.

Conclusion: what happened to me was weird. it's okay to be uncertain about things. but anxiety makes me want to be certain that I am ok.

I'm most likely ok?

[Carys]

Hiyer,



Can't do long reply now....but will be back am to do so. You are doing really well,keep at it.....will give my thoughts am. :yesyes:

[cattia]

I broke my femur when I was eleven. It was pain on a par with childbirth (the only two really intense painful experiences I have ever had!) I almost passed out and I could not move my leg at all let alone walk. I had to be taken straight to hospital in an ambulance. I'm 41 now and I can still remember it! You honestly would know if you'd broken this bone, it's a really major bone to break. You will be fine.

[Kevinor762]

One more question

When one has health anxiety I'm sure we can agree that putting away the fear of a disease can make us think.. "I'm forgetting about this to make me stop having worry thoughts. But what if I'm putting my life at risk and not giving it attention?"

How do you know how and when to trust yourself that you're okay? Be more confident in yourself?

[Fishmanpa]

One more question

When one has health anxiety I'm sure we can agree that putting away the fear of a disease can make us think.. "I'm forgetting about this to make me stop having worry thoughts. But what if I'm putting my life at risk and not giving it attention?"

How do you know how and when to trust yourself that you're okay? Be more confident in yourself?

Of the tens of thousands of threads and members on this site, I know of maybe three that actually had something going on.

One of the things you can do is look at some of the long time members histories. Dozens and dozens of fears of deadly illnesses and none came to fruition. I can tell you as one who has had some real dangerous physical issues (heart attacks and cancer), that there's no doubt something was wrong.

The fears you've posted (look at your post history) are so fantastical in nature as to be absurd (sorry, being honest and blunt).

One difference in you compared to some, is that once the panic subsides, you actually have rational thoughts about them upon reflection and as Carys noted, you respond to members posts and pursue a dialog which is encouraging.

The bottom line is taking the steps in real life to address your HA. That means therapy and meds if needed. These are just words on a screen that go away when you click the little "x" at the top right of the screen. You have to live with yourself and the thoughts when you close the screen.

I have real life physical issues that can put me six feet under. Living in fear and reacting to the irrationality of those fears is effectively doing that to you above ground. You have choice to live or live in fear. Which will you choose to do?

Positive thoughts

[Carys]

I feel confused to what just happened. A bit worried.
Trigger: felt something pop out of place inside my body near my butt/leg.
What if I die. This is probably a result of me hitting my knee earlier.
Evidence: I felt it. Doesn't normally happen ever so I should get to the bottom of this.
Evidence against: I can walk. It doesn't hurt it only felt weird. I feel completely fine.
How I feel now: calm. 5/10 worried.

Conclusion: what happened to me was weird. it's okay to be uncertain about things. but anxiety makes me want to be certain that I am ok.

I'm most likely ok? Ah thats interesting, yes, if things happen that you haven't experienced before then it can stress HA people out majorly. You are spot on, because you are anxious in the extreme about your body you want to know what it was and finding the reason might help you eliminate nasty reasons - OR - you might start focusing on an unpleasant reason for the 'pop'. I think that thought record was interesting, and I applaud you for your conclusion. Yes, it was weird and not something you've felt before, but as you feel completely fine, as you can walk fine, as it was only momentary, you conclude that it wasn't a threat - just odd.

Thats a good conclusion.


I should think that since this knee bump you've been holding and flexing your leg a bit differently, perhaps putting more pressure on the hip joint and the ligaments, tendons and muscles there. It sounds to me like it could have been a joint pop from the fluid that has air bubbles, or have been a tendon - they can 'pop' as they pass each other or go through their sheath. This can apparently happen during exercise and yoga for some people, as they stretch and use joints and areas of the body differently to usual. So, I would suggest to you that you've probably been using your hip area differently since bumping your knee.



It is OK to be uncertain about things, yes, and I can understand why this freaked you in your current mental state. You know what though, the humand body does this, its not perfectly functioning all the time - it develops noises, blemishes and assorted minor issues that are nothing and will resolve in time. Your body isn't something that is 'against you' and of which you have to be constantly monitoring incase it fails or malfunctions, you are a heathy young male. Wait till you get to the age of FMP and me, then you'll be popping, cracking, aching, and have all sorts. ;o)



I think you did well with this record. :D

---------- Post added at 08:53 ---------- Previous post was at 08:41 ----------


How do you know how and when to trust yourself that you're okay? Be more confident in yourself?


At this point I agree its hard to know - you have trained your mind into a pattern of over highly over responsiveness to every single twinge and sniffle. It may seem that you could never know what is a genuine concern and when something is really wrong, you might miss it if you don't keep up your hypervigilance. However, the way you get to the point of knowing when to respond to something or not is by applying the same thought record type rationalising as you are currently learning to do.



As you keep practicing it, keep forming conclusions and build those skills it becomes easier to determine what is a real threat, what can be left and monitored and what is nothing to worry about. :D

[Kevinor762]

Thank you all.