Is this normal questioning of sexual orientation or GAD/OCD? May be graphic, not sure

[youwillwin]

Hello forum users, I just joined.

Firstly, thank you for this platform, I've been reading some posts on here and really wish you all ease in whatever difficulties you are going through.

I just want to acknowledge that I know that no one can give me a formal diagnosis on if I have GAD or OCD or any other suggestions but because I cannot trust my mind so just looking for objective responses. My situation is quite complex (or maybe not) so I'll understand if people read this and think "don't know". If you respond, thank you. If you choose not to, I completely get it because this is long and draining.

I am also aware that forum rules say something about sexual content not being allowed, I am a 30 year woman who is a (happy) virgin so don't have much to disclose about anything I have engaged with other than thoughts of which I'll be sensitive in my word choice. If this isnt appropriate and my post is removed, totally fine.


The issue

I have been analyzing my sexual orientation for 2 years now. I have hit real lows, real bad lows (never suicidal) that have kept me for the most part indoors. I lost a promotion and a job due to this mental stress and basically I wouldnt wish this type of mental agony on anyone as I am sure many of you relate.

What started out as an analysis of my life for self awareness purposes ended up turning into a 2 year non stop analyzing of what my sexual orientation is. As stated as a 30 year old woman I have never been with anyone romantically or physically. I have never dated, kissed or been on a date. These have all been for deliberate purposes. I like being alone and I have very little motivation for romantic or physical intimacy with anyone. I could analyse why, maybe there are deep fear there. I grew up in a decent home but didnt grow up learning any emotional development. Feelings are not discussed in my family and I started daydreaming and acting out daydreams from age 14 and onwards. I pretended to be someone else (an actress, a singer etc) and in a moment in the privacy of my own bedroom I'd escape my reality. I still daydream now and its unfortunately a very hard habit too break.

Back to the point of this post, whilst I have never been with anyone I can identify an attraction more romantic to the opposite gender. My thing is though I just have little motivation to do anything with that attraction because around real people I have a low libido and also do not want any romantic companion, im good you know. Around actual women, no I have never felt any desire or attraction. Seems really straight forward, I would say I was close to being asexual and hetroroantic (romantic attraction to the opposite gender).

But I then pondered on my long history (15 years on and off but not always frequently) watching lesbian content online, being aroused and then switching it off to fantasize about women sexually. I never analysed why I did it and frankly I got exposed to lesbian erotic movies at around aged 14 and it stuck kind of. I then in the midst of this analysing got anxiety and stress and then started watching more lesbian content, switched it off to then have more lesbain fantasies and then my first orgasm to such fantasies and then got addicted. I then thought back to being a teen aged 14 and having an innocent chat with a girl on teen chat and then her turning the conversation to asking if I wanted to have a sexual chat (just text, no pictures,videos). I said sure, it lasted a few minutes and then it ended. Whilst I was aroused to the chat, it never continued after that one time I guess I just wasn't interested enough to go back to it. I also thought back to being aged 15-17 around that time maybe 2 or 3 times I private messaged girls in chat rooms and pretended to be a boy and chat them up romantically I think not sexually but it was those few times and ended, I guess it didnt sti whatever that was.

For 2 years I have nit picked everything and yet the desire for women in acutal flesh who exist is not there. I went to lgbt sites and some straight forums and was told I was bisexual or most likely a lesbian for only being able to orgasm to thoughts of women not men (I can think of men and be aroused but its hard to imagine what it would feel like to be with a man do to the different biology). They also said that it was not normal for people who have no same sex desires to watch sexual content online and then switch it off to fanatsize and for the time length that I have and that I was in denial when I explained to them that my thoughts about making out with a woman only ever occured when I first watched content online and then switching it off to think of women. This is important because if I do not watch lesbain content online my lesbian fantasies disappear and this has been the pattern for 15 years.

For the past 2 years life has been on hold. I wake up most mornings trying to figure out what I am? I really do mind calling myself bisexual or lesbian, what my issue is how do I explain it "ohh hello I am bisexual/lesbian but I dont date or feel attracted to women in flesh only mostly imaginary women in my fantasies of which only appear after I am aroused from watching lesbian content online?". I've also developed paranoia around women, anytime I do talk to them I think "am I feeling attraction or no?". The answer is always no but because I have been told I am bisexual or a lesbian I am now walking around confused and keep thinking well if I am why am i not feeling attraction. I've been told to experiment, but I have no desire to. I am also paranoid that if I ever do get with a guy and can't orgasm then it will mean I am bi/lesbian because I did orgasm to lesbian thoughts.

I think my issue has been exaggerated by the lack of coherent information online of what someone base's their sexual orientation on because in one sentence I am reading articles by sex therapist saying its how you feel around actual people that matters when understanding your sexual orientation and in the other internet forum users say that my fantasies is my sexual orientation but then can you see how this is very confusing for anyone like me who has such a clear seperation between how they feel around actual people and fantasy to understand because they are both in conflict. In the same way that my long term non sexual fantasies of being an actress is not reflective of my real world desires and I do not therefore call myself an actress, I am not sure if what lgbt and straight forum users have told me is factually correct, atleast for me but the problem here is my mind is unstable so where a reasonable mind would deduce and come to their own conclusion my mind is just fuzzy from all the feedback. If I base my sexual orientation ony my fantasies then I am bisexual. If I base my sexual orientation on how I feel around actual people then I am asexual hetromantic.

So anyway I have reasoned that 2 years later from when I started analyzing my sexual orientation, I have not got any better. Everyday a new path opens up for more analyzing of my sexual orientation. Everyday I think "ohh I didnt think of the time I got aroused by a picture of a naked woman but later on I looked at the same picture and was not aroused, is that attraction? That must also be analysed and added to any already exhausting mental list of other thiings I need to analyse". My brain is never satisfied with a "okay, you got, you can stop analyzing and move forward with your life now". Just when I think I have my final question and receive a final answer, it may be a couple days or a week but inevitable a new question forms in my head, a new memory of a time I got aroused or a time this or that happened, a new opportunity to fall back down into the darkness I have been in for so long.

Is this a mental health problem or normal questioning?

I dont know if this is a normal process of questioning one's sexuality, GAD, OCD or whatever else there is out there. Before this sexuality issue developed I have had numerous anxiety over various things (health, sleep, performance anxiety over bad acne). I have never seen a professional I have had a very cold reception from most who give the air of "I have patients with life threatening problems and you're here conjuring up an issue". Maybe its my energy but I seem to attract those types of professionals.

I do know this is not HOCD because my situation actually is more about analyzing my fantasy life and the feedback I have got from others and analyzing what to base my sexual orientation on (especially when a long history of fantasy does not crossover over to real desire and especially because of the confusing feedback I have got). Do I think if there was just ONE answer to this question made available online for free from sex experts that my issue would disappear? Maybe. I am not sure. Its hard to say. Most of my previous health worries has always been cleared up by running to the doctors office. There was no confusing feedback, there was just one answer.

Its rough but posting here is a sign that I am not giving up. I can't actually, its not in me to despair completely. I know I am the cause of my own suffering and that there must be a way out of this issue.

For anyone who may read this and decide to respond, thank you. I compltely get it if people don't respond though, even I am overwhelmed by what I have jsut wrote.

[NervousKel]

Hi, Youwillwin!


I'm no doctor, but the constant questioning about your sexual orientation seems to me to be a definite sign of GAD. I think many of us with GAD get thoughts going around and around in our head, and end up overanalyzing it. If it's a thought that can cause us anxiety, then we really get going. If you weren't constantly thinking about your sexual orientation, then I suspect it would be something else, especially since you said in the past you've had these thoughts about other things, too.

I've been overanalyzing my anxiety lately, which means most of my day is spent researching anxiety online, thinking about, going for a walk and thinking about it some more, then back online again ;-). I'm trying to break out of it by distracting my mind, such as with reading or watching TV. I've had other topics that have gotten stuck in my brain over the years, and caused me anxiety: everything from relationships and analyzing every detail, to jobs. I'm very introverted, and spend a lot of time inside my head, and, yes, I do a lot of daydreaming:-). I think those of us who are inside our brains a lot are prone to this type of repetitive thinking.

If I were you, I would make an appointment to see a doctor, and tell him/her about your anxiety and your repetitive thoughts. It won't hurt to go, and will probably help:-). They may consider putting you on an antidepressant, or having you go to therapy. I've found medication to be helpful for me most of the time, as well as reading a few self-help books about anxiety, or biographies about other people dealing with anxiety (some of them are quite humorous, and I find myself nodding as I remember myself dealing with similar predicaments).

[Daedalus]

Hey YouWillWin

I'm sure you already know, but it's incredibly common for straight women to fantasize about other women.

It's one of the most common sexual fantasies.

Check out Nancy Friday's groundbreaking, "My Secret Garden", if you haven't seen it before.

Plus, the fact you fantasize doesn't necessarily mean anything at all about your sexual orientation. Lots of people have rape fantasies, but it doesn't mean in the least bit - obviously - that they actually want to be raped.

You probably already realise all this. Sorry!

To me, it just sounds like an OCD thing, and, as you say, you're happily more or less asexual.

[MyNameIsTerry]

For 2 years I have nit picked everything and yet the desire for women in acutal flesh who exist is not there. I went to lgbt sites and some straight forums and was told I was bisexual or most likely a lesbian for only being able to orgasm to thoughts of women not men (I can think of men and be aroused but its hard to imagine what it would feel like to be with a man do to the different biology). They also said that it was not normal for people who have no same sex desires to watch sexual content online and then switch it off to fanatsize and for the time length that I have and that I was in denial when I explained to them that my thoughts about making out with a woman only ever occured when I first watched content online and then switching it off to think of women. This is important because if I do not watch lesbain content online my lesbian fantasies disappear and this has been the pattern for 15 years.

It sounds like those on the LGBT sites were more interested in determining you fit with their labels than what you actually experience. For a start, what about people who have trouble with intimacy yet can orgasm to porn? It's not all about sexuality, it can be about the pressure of sexual relationships.

What they have told you just feels too binary to me. And that is strange considering just how diverse the LGBT community is but there are elements within that community who don't even agree with the existence of some of their groups so just being within LGBT doesn't necessarily mean there is not ignorance.

I could be a philia of some kind but this is really the realm of a professional and with what sounds like asexuality involved, something I'm not very knowledgeable of, I'm really just guessing in the hope it helps to remember there could be more quite normal possibilities that do not need to be feared. Like Daedalus mentioned, some people get sexually excited by things such as rape (both men & women) and may act this out in the bedroom yet it doesn't mean they are sexual predators in the making...otherwise the whole BDSM movement would be a real problem for the police & courts! How many wives slap on a school uniform? Does that mean their husbands are paedophiles in the making and they are supporting this behaviour? And then we have the MP's that like being whipped in dungeons or being dressed up & treated as babies. :blush::biggrin:

[Daedalus]

It sounds like those on the LGBT sites were more interested in determining you fit with their labels than what you actually experience.

Also, lgbt people are in many ways the wrong people to ask here, because if they generalize from their own experiences then clearly same-sex fantasy is going to be suggestive of being gay or bisexual.

More relevant is how many straight women have exclusively (or near exclusively) lesbian fantasies. And I bet the numbers are much higher than one might suppose.

Two of my past partners (women), if they were going to watch porn, tended to watch lesbian porn (one of them, exclusively lesbian porn). They were straight.

My view, for what it's worth, is that it would probably benefit the OP to talk to a professional about this stuff, because the ruminating does seem to veer into OCD territory.

[youwillwin]

@nervouskel, @daedalus and @mynameisterry

Thank you all so very much for the kindness of your time in replying back to me, truly grateful. I hope you are all doing well and feel free to give me a shout if you ever need support with anything.

Thank you for the suggestions to see doctor/professional: I unfortunately avoid the gp (nhs) because of past experiences of being too eager to administer pills before really pointing me to support with what I believe is less chemical imbalance issue as it is a faulty way of thinking. When I had sleep anxiety the doctor gave me sleeping pills, it worked for a few hours and I woke up still anxious. I went online and researched ways to help me sleep and learnt about guided imagery through visualizations and my problem was solved. I didnt need the meds, I just needed an understanding of techniques to reduce anxiety. I am happy to see a professional therapist to pay for as I find my experience with the NHS very cold but as I lost my job due to this stress I will have to wait to get the finances first. But thanks for the suggestions.


Porn: I didnt clarify this but I only started watching lesbian porn two years ago when coincidentally I developed the anxiety over understanding my sexual orientation. Before that it was lesbian erotic movies, which is a similar thing anyway but just wanted to underline that. The past two years, I truly feel my increase in lesbian content has not been a natural one but rather
I access it whenever I am stressing over my sexual orientation. When I am not stressing, I have never needed and still do not need to watch lesbian content regularly. If I never view lesbian content in my life again I'd be
happy. I have an addictive personality so I may have due to experiencing climax for the first time thinking of lesbian thoughts wired my brain to such thoughts which explains why stressing over my sexual orientation will remind me brain of lesbian thoughts but in any case it doesn't crossover to an actual desire or want for a real woman.

LGBTt: Yes I made the error of assuming lgbt individuals would know more on sexuality and its complexities that I and others. Its been an incredibly humbling experience because it has taught me to not assume that. A lot of lgbt forum users I have spoken to have just t as much of a narrow understanding of sexuality as some straight forum users in various platforms. And yes many have been trying to tell me that I am in denial. I am not mad at them I can see clearly how my story can read denial but when someone isn't in denial and is in a vulnerable mental space it can only further isolate them so my experiences in lgbt forums have been very hard indeed.

Fetish/kink: The fact that my fantasies of being with a woman sexually have only ever come up by firs watching erotic movies or
lesbian porn and then switching the lesbian content off to then think of such a lesbian encounter and that without watching such content my lesbian fantasies disappear and do not crossover to real desire or attraction to women who exist in flesh, I can conclude from that this may be a kink of sort. I don't want to cause offence to lgbt peope by calling lesbian fantasies as an unusual thing but I for me I guess it would be unusual and more realistically the furthest thing from my core.

---------- Post added at 14:37 ---------- Previous post was at 14:14 ----------

I did some thinking and had some real insightful moments today. Please feel to ignore. I am positing this as just a way for me to put my thoughts together for some self reflection (feel free to add any feedback if anyone has any)

My sexual orientation and the analyzing:

I know how I feel around actual people. Logically I know I can never date my thoughts nor would I want to. The only being able to orgasm to thoughts of women and not men? I dont know, I have researched online but can't find an answer but either way it doesnt change the fact that I do not desire or feel attraction to women in actual flesh. Logically, asexual hetroromantic as a definition fits my real feelings around real people. It fits like a glove. Its feels authentic. But why isn't this enough of a confirmation for me that I have my answer to my own question? I have come to realise that its because:

1.The obsessive need to analyse others feedback especially when its confusing/conflicting ]because I need to know everything. The conflicting feedback from lgbt and straight users (my fantasy life and only being to orgasm to thoughts of women made me bisexual or a lesbian) didn't allign with my truth (I have no attraction or esires for women in flesh). There feedback made me think "why did they say that, where are they getting their information from? Do I need to now call myself bisexual or a lesbian? I know the logical answer to this question for me is no, it makes no sense to define my sexual orientation on thoughts I do not want to make real not because of denial but because there is no genuine attraction or desire for real women in flesh. It makes no sense to me to connect fantasies that only occur after I watch lesbian videos and do not occur unless after I have watched such content.

2. Reassurance seeking/Validation: But somewhere deep inside there is a profound need to have my conclusion and my truth validated from an outside source, preferably by academic research. Somehow it will make me feel less alone that others have gone through what I have gone through and came to the same conclusion that indeed one's sexual orientation is based on how one feels around actual people. Somehow hearing it from others and not from my own voice alone makes me feel assured and confident that yes I was right all along and the noise made from others slowly dies down.

[Daedalus]

Well, for what it's worth, I don't find anything at all in your story suggestive of the fact you might be gay or bisexual.

Nothing, not a jot! :)

You just sometimes found lesbian content arousing, which is totally normal for straight women, but you got anxious about it, and started to test yourself, and it escalated.

In my view, there is nothing here that is surprising or odd or suggestive you're not straight. (Of course, it doesn't rule out you being gay, but you're not aroused by women in real life, you don't crave a relationship with a women, you don't want to experiment, so... well, there's nothing to suggest you're gay).

As an outsider, I'm not sure why any of this really matters - if you're happy being alone and have a low sex drive. But I guess I'm talking from a position of privilege given that I've never had any doubts about my sexuality! :)

[youwillwin]

You just sometimes found lesbian content arousing, which is totally normal for straight women, but you got anxious about it, and started to test yourself, and it escalated.


Thank you for replying, your amazing!

I'm anxious about making sure everything is clear from my end but just to clarify I don't think I watched the porn from a place of testing. I am just making sure this isnt bein confused with hocd or anything else. Yes sure the addiction to lesbian porn if I can even call it that did start at the same time as my anxiety but because there was already some voluntary familiarity and history with this lesbian sexual content viewing, I think the anxiety just brought those memories back to the forefront and because arousal was already there from previous viewings mix this with anxiety it led to a situation where it occupied my thoughts and made me view these things and triggered what was for most part of my life an occasional viewing (if that-once or twice a year-equaling 1 or 2 days for over 15 years but huge gaps in between those years) to then become a consistent viewing and then after viewing fascinating and then paired with my first orgasm it created a sort of strong association that actually isnt hard to break as I am on a non porn journey and only ever feels hard when I stress over my anxiety, anxiety which ironically is the very reason I ended up viewing lesbain porn more than ever/having more extreme fantasies and then first orgasms to. I hope this all makes sense and clarifies it.

I just wanted to make this clear so as to not get mixed up with "testing" especially as it pertains to hocd sufferers as I know they do alot of this and I didnt do any testing.

Also I really do think that the confusing feedback and rush to label forum users messed me up but I obviously take responsibility for allowing this to drag on for as long as it did.

Why do I care about this if I like being single and alone and happy to stay like this for life? Very good question and it goes back to my last post on the need for reassurance. I don't know? I am a perfectionist. I don't like uncertainty and not knowing my behaviors. This is all linked to a self awareness journey I started two years ago. I was getting close to achieving my dreams, had graduated from my second degree. I then from nowhere developed performance anxiety around this time and then as soon as I got reassurance from that family/friends started to analyse my sexual orientation as I wanted to know myself better and also quit the occasional lesbian erotic movies that stumbled and in many cases intentionally watched as I wasn't interested anymore, I realized i had been viewing it for most of my life unconsciously and it wasn't aligned to my actual interests. Then from nowhere my mind took a hard left and this spiraled into what it is. So much of knowing answers to these sexual orientation questions is linked to my self awareness and consequently my self confidence. Its not easy to just let it go to be honest.

Again thank you for your input, it's really helped :yesyes:

[Daedalus]

Hey YouWillWin

Ah, so it's anxiety leads to preoccupation which leads to viewing because of the associations with sporadic arousal when you were younger and then first orgasms.

Still doesn't remotely suggest you're gay. It just doesn't!

The fundamental point here, which I'm sure you appreciate, is that imagination doesn't necessarily tell you anything about your real world desires - even if it's a preoccupation, etc.

And in the absence of anything in the real world to suggest you're interested in people of your own sex, when you add in that it's entirely normal for straight women to be aroused by lesbian content (it's certainly one of the most common sexual fantasies for straight women), there's no reason to suppose you're gay.

I understand the desire for self-knowledge, but the irony here, as I'm sure you appreciate, is the only reason you're questioning is because you became anxious about something that shouldn't have led you to question your sexuality in the first place. It's not in the least bit odd for straight women to be aroused by lesbian erotica - it's orthogonal to the question of whether they're straight or gay.

For what it's worth, which probably isn't much given I don't know you, I reckon your original judgment was probably about right. Asexual (or low libido), not wanting a relationship, but if you were to get involved with somebody, it'd be a man.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Just passing through so will add a better response later.

You mentioned testing & HOCD and how you don't see it as this. I would agree from what you say. But you do say you get anxious about your sexuality and then access porn. This could be a compulsion due to that anxiety.

When it comes to OCD it's about the behaviours & cycles. The themes (such as HOCD) are just labels sufferers use to discuss popular flavours of OCD. The medical world don't use them at all in their diagnosis, they have very few forms of OCD.

So it can just be a theme of OCD that hasn't had a popular name created for it. OCD can likely be about anything, it's the cycles & behaviours that matter more.

[AnxiousinCali]

I've been down this rabbit hole and it is AWFUL, not because I minded being gay, but because I couldn't for the life of me figure out what I was. For me, the constant questioning, analyzing, and lack of connection to my inner voice was the surest sign that anxiety rather than a sexual crisis was afoot.


One thing that really helped me was that I stopped trying to figure it out. I was so preoccupied with the label and the question that I couldn't really get underneath the questioning to my own answer. Plus, I think most of this stuff is on a spectrum anyways. It must be really hard to figure out if you do feel asexual or less inclined to experiment physically, but I'm sure you will get there eventually.



If it helps, my final answer was this - I'm drawn to men physically and for romantic companionship. That said, there seems to be some part of me that is physically attracted to the idea of women, but not to sexually being with them, if that makes sense. I have lots of gay friends, have had lots of opportunities to explore the horizon, and I guess I'm just not inclined to go that route. So, straight with some fantasy-based curiosity?

[youwillwin]

Thanks @daedalus and @mynameisterry :flowers:


Hey YouWillWin

Ah, so it's anxiety leads to preoccupation which leads to viewing because of the associations with sporadic arousal when you were younger and then first orgasms.


Spot on! Only thing I'll add to further clarify is that those associations were not only there from when I was younger- viewings occurred here and there up until the anxiety occurred. When the analyzing began and then anxiety ( because of not having a clear understanding on sexuality and feeling like I was going through an identity crisis) I started focusing a lot on lesbian themes in my head and overanalysing and because of past associations and arousal patterns with lesbian erotic movies the preoccupation with lesbian themes, due to anxiety, resulted in viewing lesbain porn and then it was during this time in the past 2 years that led to my first orgasms thinking about making out with with a imaginary woman sexually and then going deeper down the rabbit hole of what felt like a porn addiction

I realized I was not accessing lesbian porn healthily. The only reason I wont call it addiction is because I have only had this porn problem whenever I have anxiety over my sexual orientation. When I do not have anxiety over my sexual orientation, the desire to view porn or fantasize about women goes away. Because I believe in the brain working in such as a way as "what fires together, wires together" I do feel there is a susceptibility to want to view lesbian content due to my history and the release of dopamine and so forth but the reason I know its not addiction is the desire to view such content is really small. Its always been that way and the times Ive noticed an increase in such a desire to view lesbian porn has directly been related to the times I have been anxious. It creates a "I need a hit" as opposed to "I need to test to make sure I am not aroused by lesbian content" as is the case with HOCD Sufferers so its slight more complicated in that way and actually ahs made me reluctant to talk about my anxiety and how it led to a preoccupation with lesbian thoughts and how that led to viewing of more lesbian porn because I have been paranoid of my issue being confused as HOCD.

Yes, I do feel asexual probabally not even worth saying hetromatic because whilst I am attracted to the opposite gender, the attraction is not strong enough to motivate me to be in any relationship or desire physical or romantic intimacy. I recognise this can change but based on those who've known me for the past 30 years, my odd ways hasnt changed one bit lool.

My mind zooms into that tiny bit of uncertainty caused by others feedback: Other forum users have said me only orgasming to women and not men is a strong indication, others have noted my long history pattern
with lesbian sexual content and someone have said that straight people (and I want to be clear that I do not care to be straight at all anyway)
may fantsize whilst watching porn but do not switch the porn off then fantasize after. I truly think in all 30 years of my life because I have no real world experience and never thought or studied about sexuality I was left with "okay, I don't know why I cant orgasm thinking of men other than its harder to imagine what it would feel like due to different biology but if I am bi/lesbian, which is cool why am I not experiencing real world attraction around real women in flesh"? I had so many questions like "so bisexuality includes those of us who have fantasies we do not desire to act out and only occur after we watch lesbian content and then switch it off to fantasize?". And because it was hard finding answers like this from an expert on the subject online, I naturally turned to forums and was hoping for some clarity and off course this led to several back and forth and only further confusion.
I don't know why my mind is not okay with not having answers to the questions forum users gave me. This is less about my identity to be honest as it is a quest for continually having answers for everything.

It is ironic that 2 years ago I decided I wanted to analyse my life for self development purposes and it was this analysis that ultimately despite having good intention ended up pulling me into a very dark road.

@mynameisterry I hope this post clarifies a few things in regards to your last post particularly the relationship between my anxiety and porn/fantasies. Its hard for me to really see this as an OCD issue as there is no fear attached to it. The compulsion is definitely there in terms of new questions for analyzing popping up just when I think I have clarity on everything and the need for reassurance. But ultimately isnt OCD about fear? Mine is definitely an issue of needing concrete answers to make sense of the feedback. I think thats why I haven't thought of my issue as an OCD.

---------- Post added at 09:48 ---------- Previous post was at 09:36 ----------


I've been down this rabbit hole and it is AWFUL, not because I minded being gay, but because I couldn't for the life of me figure out what I was. For me, the constant questioning, analyzing, and lack of connection to my inner voice was the surest sign that anxiety rather than a sexual crisis was afoot.

If it helps, my final answer was this - I'm drawn to men physically and for romantic companionship. That said, there seems to be some part of me that is physically attracted to the idea of women, but not to sexually being with them, if that makes sense. I have lots of gay friends, have had lots of opportunities to explore the horizon, and I guess I'm just not inclined to go that route. So, straight with some fantasy-based curiosity?

Thank you so much for replying to this post, its so great to know others have been where I am. It is AWFUL.

For me its weird in that I am not questioning how I feel around actual people, I just know I am asexual because of the opportunities I've had too date/be with someone and in those very real moments knowing deep down that it wasnt a case of the person not being attractive enough, not being lovely enough, not being amazing enough, there was just no desire at all sexually and then because I can feel romantic attraction to men but because that desire is too small for me to enter into a relationship and everything that comes with it, I know that being on my own is my truth.

The issue for me though has been analyzing deeply the feedback of others and then wondering well which label applies to me then? You know. Its a label issue. Some have said I am bisexual or a lesbian, which is fine but its like okay are other people calling themselves bi/lesbian based on fantasy and orgasm history (only being able to orgasm to thoughts about women and not men)? So its not really figuring out what my real feelings are around actual people but more so which label applies to me considering both my reality and my fantasy//orgasm history, you know? Its like figuring out what others are using to base their sexual orientation on? How much does a fantasy life/orgasm history override real life feelings when self identifying? When choosing a label and a way to self identify, does fantasies/orgasms that do not crossover to real life matter? I think this is the crux of my concerns.

I hope I am making sense haha but thanks again.

[Daedalus]

My mind zooms into that tiny bit of uncertainty caused by others feedback: Other forum users have said me only orgasming to women and not men is a strong indication, others have noted my long history pattern
with lesbian sexual content and someone have said that straight people (and I want to be clear that I do not care to be straight at all anyway)
may fantsize whilst watching porn but do not switch the porn off then fantasize after. I truly think in all 30 years of my life because I have no real world experience and never thought or studied about sexuality I was left with "okay, I don't know why I cant orgasm thinking of men other than its harder to imagine what it would feel like due to different biology but if I am bi/lesbian, which is cool why am I not experiencing real world attraction around real women in flesh"? I had so many questions like "so bisexuality includes those of us who have fantasies we do not desire to act out and only occur after we watch lesbian content and then switch it off to fantasize?". And because it was hard finding answers like this from an expert on the subject online, I naturally turned to forums and was hoping for some clarity and off course this led to several back and forth and only further confusion.

In my view, none of those things are remotely reasons for thinking you might be gay.

1. It simply isn't true that orgasming to women, rather than men, indicates you're gay. If you've been told this in a lgbt forum, it's likely because people are generalizing from their own experience. But they're all gay so of course it's true for them! It's Karl Popper and white swans (Google it if you don't know it). You don't prove that all swans are white by counting white swans. You've got to look for black swans, because one black swan falsifies the proposition that all swans are white. Similarly you don't prove that exclusively gay fantasies means you're gay by looking at what gay people fantasize about. You've got to look at what straight people fantasize about. And straight women fantasize about other women, sometimes exclusively about other women.

2. The long history isn't relevant, because straight women fantasize about other women, sometimes exclusively and sometimes exclusively over their entire sexual lives. (If a person is turned on by the thrill of the forbidden, for example, or by that which they wouldn't do in their real life, then...).

3. Of course straight people sometimes watch porn to get aroused, and then switch it off to fantasize afterwards. Doesn't everybody do that (at least sometimes)?

The final bit - why can't you orgasm thinking of men - only becomes relevant if you think that because you're straight you ought to be able to orgasm thinking of men. But that doesn't follow. I've had straight women partners whose fantasies have been exclusively about women. (I think I remember one of them saying that men weren't quite soft or gentle enough to work in her imagination, but in the real world the harder edges of men were good because of her feelings of love, etc., for the person).

Anyway, there's definitely no reason to suppose you're anything other than straight (and largely asexual). That might change, of course, but you've been misled those other forums.

[youwillwin]

Thank you Daedalus for your time and insight. It really helped:) I do think you have a very valid point in regards to lgbt forums and their feedback (not always at all) coming from their own personal perspective. I get that, its a very human thing to do but not always the most helpful when someone like me comes alone with a very bizarre fantasy/real world feelings disconnection and looking for a more of a objective feedback. Can't thank you enough for all the help. I have quite a way to go to settle these 2 years of non stop ruminating and get better but I have hope.



I apologise if my reply is quite short, but I wanted to let you know that I share your same sexual preferences. I however didn't gain an anxious attachment to my orientation so there was no questioning. But I thought it might help if I share how I label myself. I just say, "I am romantically attracted to men, but sexually attracted to women."

Absolutely no need to apologie raindrops, I appreciate the time you have taken to reply and share both insight and your journey. Thank you!

You are free to not reply (don't want to take up you or anyone's time here as the support from all has been so very helpful) but if you do have time, a few things:

-Do you feel attraction to real women in flesh?
-If you are sexually attrcated to women, what is the cause for you not wanting a sexual relationship? Is the desire for a same sex sexual relationship there?

I ask because I am just trying to gauge how similar our stories and also because:

1: I am not and have never felt any attraction to real women in flesh at all so the fantasy aspect would need to be emphasised if I chose a bisexual label because I am not and have never been attracted to real women, saying I am sexually attracted to women would give an indication to others that I was attracted to real women, since I am not so the fantasy would definitely need to be emphasised so to remain true to myself and how I define myself to others so I do not confuse other people as to who I am and who I am attracted to when around real people (not thoughts). There's no moral code or shame that is holding me back from experimenting with women, it really is the good old case of thinking of women that when presented in real form is not attractive and not arousing.

2: My fantasies can only occur (and this has been a long pattern) if I first watch porn/erotic content. I am now on a no porn/erotic movie journey and as has always been the case without erotic content my fantasies are not there. The desire to even think of women has always needed a sexual video as stimulus. I imagine quitting will mean my fantasies of making out with a woman sexually will leave permanently so I am not sure about self identifying as "sexually attracted to women" will be authentic to my truth. It seems now in quitting watching lesbian sexual (just like all those years when I didn't watch lesbian stuff online) both my inner and outer world is fully aligned in that I no longer have any thoughts about women and only a small portion of my mind thinks of men, which reflects how it is in real life (attraction to men but very low desire to actually ever do anything about that attraction). Granted its been less than a week but I know quitting lesbians sexual content online is easy for me so long as I do not dwell on my sexual orientation.

[youwillwin]

Thank you Raindrops, your reply has helped me out. I figure everyone is different. For me, since the fantasies do not crossover to how I feel around actual people in flesh and since never finding a woman attractive in real flesh form, I feel confident in leaving it out of my sexual identity but I appreciate that for some their fantasies do play a part in their sexual identity and that's cool too.

I forgot in my initial post to include this question that was also bothering me for some time but I guess I didn't want to overwhelm others with my questions and this is my last one:
Basically for over a year and a half the sexual fantasies I have revolve around a specific imaginary woman every-time. So she basically looks the same and its the same woman I am making out with in all my fantasies. Thing is, when I am around actual woman in flesh that look similar to the imaginary woman I feel no attraction or desire at all. I guess I am wondering is having specific fantasies of a imaginary woman the same time every-time for over a year is indicative of something despite no real world attraction to the those who look very much like the imaginary woman?

Sorry if this is a silly question especially since all the feedback I got but my mind is still in a very fragile state having spent 2 years putting it under stress due to the confusion caused by various feedback. To be honest, I am not sure at this point if this is a compulsion question or a reasonable one. My mind just zones in on stuff really hard to make sense of it all.

[Daedalus]

Hey YouWillWin

A straight woman friend of mine once told me that when she fantasized about women it was always with a specific type/person.

Not a silly question, but your forensic examination of the details of your imaginary world does I think suggest a compulsive element to all this.

You've never, not once, ever, fancied or desired a woman in real life. In the real world, you've not been aroused or attracted by a woman; you've not developed obsessional thoughts surrounding a particular woman; you've not developed a crush on a woman (which is a perfectly normal thing in straight women); you're not frustrated by a lack of female company; you don't fantasize about being romantically involved with a woman; etc; etc.

What does this tell you? :)

My view, which doesn't count for anything, I realise, is that you should just carry on enjoying your occasional fantasies, very occasional if you're not accessing porn, and accept them for what it seems overwhelmingly likely they are - just normal fantasies.

[youwillwin]

You opinion means a lot, thank you so much daedalus, really words are not sufficient to describe just how brilliant you have been :bighug1:
I feel like I am coming to a slow end to this confusion. Maybe I just needed to read diverse opinions on this subject to feel confident in what I already know as my truth.

Really don't want to take up anymore of your time but just wanted to say though that I did have a few (maybe 2-3) romantic fantasies last year of being in a romantic relationship with a female athlete and a female actress. It was weird because no I do not find these women desirable in that way and don't even follow their social media or anything. They are both lesbians I believe. Anyway, it lasted those few 2-3 times and the fantasies never returned. I figured it was just my curious mind. I just wanted to note that because I know your reference not having romantic fantasies.

[Daedalus]

Again, all this stuff is totally normal (for straight women). It's only taken on any significance because you're anxious about your sexual orientation.

In order to make the proposition that you are gay even remotely likely you'd need to have some indication outside of the realm of the imagination that you find women sexually desirable, attractive, romantically intriguing, etc. But there is none. Not even normal straight women crushes on women!

Even if it turned out in 10 years time that you developed feelings for a woman, it *wouldn't* mean that you were gay all along but didn't realise it. (There's evidence to suggest that sexual orientation is more fluid for women than men, more likely to change over time, etc.)

Right now, there's nothing here to suggest you're gay. Imagination doesn't cut it, because lots of straight women fantasize about women. (Even if we factored out the fact that you don't find women attractive in the real world, Bayes' Theorem would show that a woman drawn randomly from a group of women who fantasized about women would be more likely straight than gay - because lots of straight women fantasize about women, and there are many more straight women than gay women).

If I've helped at all then that's great. :)

[youwillwin]

Thanks a whole lot and didn't know about Bayes' Theorem so thanks for that!

I got it and I assume your use of the word "gay" here includes bisexuality/lesbian? Sorry to be so particular about understanding word choice, my mind is over-analytical.

That really is my last request for clarification as I am now as of today making a promise to myself to move on from this topic. Its taken 2 years for some context and clarity and I feel more than ever that this is it. I have been looking into whats the underlying reason behind this anxiety and the fear of not being perfect I think sums it up (which for me includes having perfect understanding of everything including this topic of sexual orientation). I have always been a perfectionist I just didn't think this was an example of that problematic problem but nevertheless will work on minimizing this problematic way of thinking so I don't end up leaving the anxiety of sexual orientation and then finding something else to over-analyse and spend another 2 years pondering on.

I also talked to some asexuals and really they said the same thing as you Daedalus. That its real life feelings that matter and that alot of asexuals can fantasize about whatever but still not feel anything in real life and hence why some choose aromatic and asexual as a label, which perfect sense really as you can't date your thoughts especially if the thoughts are about a made up person.

In the end I believe asexual hetroromantic works best as a label for me and feels like it really perfectly sums up how I feel around actual people. I may end up just being heterosexual but I don't know at this point in my age as I feel pretty much the same way I've always felt about sexual intimacy and thats "nah, i'm fine". Thank you again for helping me out here. I've really been struggling and just getting to this point of clarity feels like a huge surprise to be honest.

[Daedalus]

Yes, bisexual + lesbian.

And yes, it's real life that counts. Not least plenty of people have fantasies, and sometimes roleplay, etc., about things they'd be horrified if they occurred in real life.

As you say, who knows what will happen in the future, but asexual heteroromantic certainly fits all the evidence.

Good luck with it all!

[youwillwin]

Good luck with it all!

Thank you so much! Really inspired by how much support you've offered, hopefully, I can get to a place where I can do the same for others.

Wishing you all the very best :)

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