View Full Version : Frequent urination
Hi everyone, I am new to this site and wanted to share my story and hopefully get some insight. I am a 29y/o male, and during my college days I experiment with stacking anabolic steroids (tren, sust, deca, anadrol, Test E,) as well as peptides (HCG, HGH, and a whole lot more) and some how fathered a child which I truly and grateful for. I made the decision to stop all my substance abuse and start a clean life. As a result of coming of all substances, I developed a nasty OAB (frequent urination) which has been haunting me for over a year now. I have had every blood test to ADH, Testosterone, Free Testosterone, Bioavailability Testosterone, SHBG, LH, FSH, DHT, DHEA-S, Estradiol-S, ACTH, Corrisol, Thyroid Panel, PSA, IGF-1, Prolactin...etc. I have also had an abdominal ultra sound, MRI of the brain and pelvis, colonoscopy, 24 urine analysis, a few surgeries. One called a Lateral Internal Sphincterotomy, and a Fistulotomy. The only scans I have not had are Cystoscopy and urine dynamics. Pretty much all doctors have told me I am healthy. We have ruled out Reneal issues, prostate, IC, UTI, STD’s, kidney stones, diabetes, diabetes insipidus, Lymes, Epididymis, BPH, Pituitary, infections/parasites and hepatitis. From all the tests it shows I am clean and I don’t get it.
As a result I am on TRT, 100mg Cypionate a week, and 1050iu a week of HCG prescribed by a doctor and regulated. I have tried my best to stay of testosterone and restart my HPTA system using Clomid, yet it failed so I think I am on testosterone for life which I do not care. I am more concerned and fixated on my bladder and what manifested from my testosterone abuse in the past. I am lost, confused, feel hopeless and have not found an answer why I urinate every 15-30 minutes, 20-30 times a day for almost a year now. A lot of my family members think it is anxiety, yet I truly believe I messed up my leydig cells and receptors and my body cannot find a homeostasis.
I have made a lot of positive lifestyle changes. For one I have seeked help in seeing a psychologist. I do not take any anti-depressants, nor benzos. Ativan did help me a lot but it started to fade away. I now take CBD oil to help calm me down and practice mindfulness when I can. With mindfulness and CBD I have changed my ways of thinking. I also cut caffeine out, alcohol and have changed my diet to eating healthy foods and foods that do not irritate the bladder.
The downside is that I do not drink a lot of water for my weight, yet my urine flow is steady and clear as glass. I do not show any signs of dehydration. I do not have nocturia and sleep just about 8 hours a day. I have lost my appetite and rarely feel hungry and have been very light headed lately.
Hey, firstly well done, that's amazing that you've decided to take control and look after you - amazing story and amazing that you've had all those tests done.
Here's my theory but firstly i suffer from the same, it flares with me, it's slightly different to yours but I believe the underlying cause may be the same.
I think the bladder, bowel, and gut are very sensitive in the body and when they get thrown out of whack such as with anxiety, overuse of drugs, depression, etc etc it's then hard for them to find their balance, hence not being able to find your homeostasis.
Just because YOU - your brain, your mind has decided to make the change doesn't mean your body suddenly finds it's balance again, this can and will take a while and a year seems like a long time but it's not - not for the body. I had a twitch for a year, it's finally ONLY now - after 8 months of me doing meditation, trying really hard to find control over my anxiety - only now is it starting to go away and like you I did blood tests, went to see a neurologist three times, etc and all was clear. That's just a muscle in my eye, let's take a fairly complex part of our organ system like the bladder, but not just the bladder, the gut to the kidneys to the bladder, to the brain and back now your body is thinking the bladder is full when it's not, you've probably also patterned your body too as you're going when you feel the urge. I go every 2 hours, unless I know I've drunk a fair amount of water I will go sooner then I will let myself go sooner but I had to train my bladder again -it took about 3 months and i still get flares because, well that's my sensitive body - and it will stay sensitive I'm sure but this too shall pass. I"m not a DR not even close, I"m a single Mum with hypochondria and few 'real' ailments. Can anxiety cause an OAB yep but not for a year so I think there is some truth in the fact that your body needs more time to heal, do what you can but be gentle - you will get there ... hold on for longer, 2 hours if you can or start smaller - 30 minutes, then 1 hour and then 2 hours ..... drink the right amount of water for your body ... celebrate your body but you are NOT alone, there is a thread called ... bladder cancer or .... (i can't quite remember it - but ) - read that ..... you'll laugh and find people just like you ... I probably haven't helped much but I do believe that the bladder, gut and bowel are super sensitive to our moods and emotions and they take a while to heal, especially if they have been abused by substances - you'll be fine..... you're healthy! You just need to flush out the waste perhaps that accumulated in your cells!
xo
Hey, firstly well done, that's amazing that you've decided to take control and look after you - amazing story and amazing that you've had all those tests done.
Here's my theory but firstly i suffer from the same, it flares with me, it's slightly different to yours but I believe the underlying cause may be the same.
I think the bladder, bowel, and gut are very sensitive in the body and when they get thrown out of whack such as with anxiety, overuse of drugs, depression, etc etc it's then hard for them to find their balance, hence not being able to find your homeostasis.
Just because YOU - your brain, your mind has decided to make the change doesn't mean your body suddenly finds it's balance again, this can and will take a while and a year seems like a long time but it's not - not for the body. I had a twitch for a year, it's finally ONLY now - after 8 months of me doing meditation, trying really hard to find control over my anxiety - only now is it starting to go away and like you I did blood tests, went to see a neurologist three times, etc and all was clear. That's just a muscle in my eye, let's take a fairly complex part of our organ system like the bladder, but not just the bladder, the gut to the kidneys to the bladder, to the brain and back now your body is thinking the bladder is full when it's not, you've probably also patterned your body too as you're going when you feel the urge. I go every 2 hours, unless I know I've drunk a fair amount of water I will go sooner then I will let myself go sooner but I had to train my bladder again -it took about 3 months and i still get flares because, well that's my sensitive body - and it will stay sensitive I'm sure but this too shall pass. I"m not a DR not even close, I"m a single Mum with hypochondria and few 'real' ailments. Can anxiety cause an OAB yep but not for a year so I think there is some truth in the fact that your body needs more time to heal, do what you can but be gentle - you will get there ... hold on for longer, 2 hours if you can or start smaller - 30 minutes, then 1 hour and then 2 hours ..... drink the right amount of water for your body ... celebrate your body but you are NOT alone, there is a thread called ... bladder cancer or .... (i can't quite remember it - but ) - read that ..... you'll laugh and find people just like you ... I probably haven't helped much but I do believe that the bladder, gut and bowel are super sensitive to our moods and emotions and they take a while to heal, especially if they have been abused by substances - you'll be fine..... you're healthy! You just need to flush out the waste perhaps that accumulated in your cells!
xo
Thank you for the feedback, it is greatly appreciated and makes me fell like I am not alone. I agree our body’s our extra sensitive, I have noticed an increase in bowel movements as well. And these bladder issues are relatively close to flare ups. Since I quit steroids body builders have this period where we deflate like a balloon during our PCT cycle due to the water retention with our high levels of estrogen. Because I was an idiot I took Arimadex during that moment and crashed my estrogen which made it nearly impossible to bounce back. Where I was a year ago, an emotional wreck, with chills, frequent urination every 15-30 minutes, body hair failing to grow, nails not growing... on top of the medication the doctors gave me, Lexapro, amitriptyline, Ativan, Valium, Cipro & Flagyl. Compared to where I am now, which is just about 1-2 hour frequency bathroom trips, better bowel movements, a bit better eating habits, sleep has increased. I do see progress but I worry. I worry about my job, my fiancé, my child. I want to be around for them, and I am fortunate my job allows work at home but I am close to using that up.
I guess what all anxiety users seek, is a way to be normal, or go back to the way things are. I have been looking for that easy fix yet I cannot find it. But I guess time will tell. I know I am healthy, yet my mind needs fixing I guess. The pathways are all messed up. It bothers me I am missing important days with my 2 year old boy. All I want is for him to connect with me... yet I am emotional, depressed, and have lost my patience. Frustrated with all the things I have went through on top of the money spent for medical expenses.
Not to end on a depressing note seeing everyone researches and wants to search for hope, I have started kegel exercises which I do 10 rapid burst, quick flexing of the pelvic floor muscle, then relax for a minute, then do 10 reps of holding the muscle for 10 seconds, with a 1 second pause. Kegels have helped, long baths help, also showers. I don’t believe in SSRI’s nor benzos, if I am depressed or have anxiety I always go back to my blood work and evaluate my endocrine system. Just an imbalance of your pituitary axis to your adrenal function can change the way you feel. It is always best to evaluate hormone levels. Also mindfulness meditation does sound silly for a guy like me but 20 minutes once a day has greatly helped me. Research has shown 8 weeks of mindfulness meditation will change brain density and improve cognitive awareness.
Thank you @tan235, for your post, I truly hope one day we will all get better, and be normal again. Especially when we have been trying so hard to improve our lives. But on the upside I have done so much research in endocrine system I could become an endocrinologist. I am an expert at interrupting blood work and have become my own doctor in balancing my hormones. I know which medication to stay away from. Also one last thing, SSRI’s and benzo have been proven to numb the pituitary, over time users will experience changes in hormones due to these medications. CBD has greatly helped me calm down, worth looking into if anyone wants to break away from anti-depressants and anti-anxiety meditation.
I have also learned that we should consume half our body weight in ounces (live in the states, our measuring system sucks I know). So I weight 215lb / 2 = 107.5, so 108oz a day should be my cut off. Remember foods we eat have fluids as well so depending on how active you are you have a 20% threshold. So I can drink around 86.4ounces a day and still fulfill my need for hydration. Also the trick with biofeedback is how you consume your water. I sip my water throughout the day rather than chug it all at once. Also adding water with lemon during a meal helps me retain fluids a bit longer. Biofeedback is key, try not to fixate but monitor your desire. Do not relay on what scientists and researchers (they, who is they really) say is the right amount of water to consume.
I guess the ultimate question is, seeing I have pursued almost all possibilities of diagnosis.... is this an anxiety? I feel like trying DDVAP for diabetes insipidus may help me slow down my urine production, but will increase BP. TRT brings it up to 130/80’s, last year I was 160/90 without testosterone. Just shows you shutting down LH which stops progesterone and pregnolone in men can cause higher cholesterol and BP. Our hormones are vital to us, everyone.
So is this really an anxiety or should I keep pursuing this?
My biggest concern is dehydration.
It's a very common anxiety symptom (http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/articles/symptoms#Kidneys_urgency_to_urinate_frequent_urina tion_sudden_urge_to_go_to_the_toilet).
Positive thoughts
I think you’re overthinking this to be perfectly honest. As you have been proven not to have diabetes insipidus it is highly unlikely that you will dehydrate yourself. The kidneys are incredibly smart - they know how much fluid you need to pee & how much you need to keep to keep your blood volume fairly constant.
It sounds like you have had a lot of investigations. What help are you having for your health anxiety? I see you don’t like medications - have you tried psychotherapy? Mindfulness will certainly be beneficial but I don’t think it will be enough for you ...
I think you’re overthinking this to be perfectly honest. As you have been proven not to have diabetes insipidus it is highly unlikely that you will dehydrate yourself. The kidneys are incredibly smart - they know how much fluid you need to pee & how much you need to keep to keep your blood volume fairly constant.
It sounds like you have had a lot of investigations. What help are you having for your health anxiety? I see you don’t like medications - have you tried psychotherapy? Mindfulness will certainly be beneficial but I don’t think it will be enough for you ...
Just CBD hemp oil I vape throughout the day, and Cypionate 100mg once a week and HCG 350iu three times a week. My grandpa is a very smart vascular surgeon who has been following me closely. He believes at this point all that is left is a cystoscopy, urine dynamics, CT scan, and rectal ultrasound. Which if I got these done I am sure will come back okay. The only thing they found in my MRI was free fluid floating in the pelvis. Not quite sure what that is?
A vascular surgeon won’t be of much help either for your urological issues or your psychiatric ones ...
I’m wondering if anyone has ever overcome an anxiety like this? What steps they took, and if this is for life, finding the right support to adapt to a change like this.
I’m sure plenty of women experience something like this after pregnancy. IF there was nerve or tissue damage which is triggering false signals. Can this be corrected?
What is the best method for treating fight or flight mechanism?
In terms of something like anxiety driven or anxiety related frequent urination then the worse thing you can do mentality is to try to overcome it. The fight-or-flight system, or more generally the limbic system of the brain, is a self-delusional paranodial self fulfilling part of your brain which paraodxically is also vital for your survival. See the model of the brain that Steve Peters develops in the Chimp Paradox where he personifies the fight-or-flight system as a wild chimpazee running free in the dangerous surroundings of the jungle.
You once lived your life without focusing on your bladder or urniary system and thats the state of play you need to revert to. "Trying" here is like a fly trying to escape from a web. The more you battle with this in your brain the more hold the brain will have on you. The urniary system relies on hormones to help void and hold urine. The more cortisol and the more stress related hormones you have in your body the more the brain will work to empty the bladder more frequently. You need to learn to relax, de-stress, and simply not care about your bladder issues. The bladder issues are a symptom of a problem elsewhere. You can control the symptom with meds but to cure or heal you must look elsewhere for the issue. It's like losing weight. We think we exercise and diet to lose weight and to get healthy but in reality the body responds to such by getting healthy in order to lose the weight. Weight is just the symptom...not the problem or cause here. When you eliminate the cause then the symptom will go away by itself
In terms of something like anxiety driven or anxiety related frequent urination then the worse thing you can do mentality is to try to overcome it. The fight-or-flight system, or more generally the limbic system of the brain, is a self-delusional paranodial self fulfilling part of your brain which paraodxically is also vital for your survival. See the model of the brain that Steve Peters develops in the Chimp Paradox where he personifies the fight-or-flight system as a wild chimpazee running free in the dangerous surroundings of the jungle.
You once lived your life without focusing on your bladder or urniary system and thats the state of play you need to revert to. "Trying" here is like a fly trying to escape from a web. The more you battle with this in your brain the more hold the brain will have on you. The urniary system relies on hormones to help void and hold urine. The more cortisol and the more stress related hormones you have in your body the more the brain will work to empty the bladder more frequently. You need to learn to relax, de-stress, and simply not care about your bladder issues. The bladder issues are a symptom of a problem elsewhere. You can control the symptom with meds but to cure or heal you must look elsewhere for the issue. It's like losing weight. We think we exercise and diet to lose weight and to get healthy but in reality the body responds to such by getting healthy in order to lose the weight. Weight is just the symptom...not the problem or cause here. When you eliminate the cause then the symptom will go away by itself
Understood, but believe me and i’m sure others who experience this anxiety can say, it is very very tough not to think about peeing when we all naturally have to go to rid of waste in our body. It’s like I would have to use a catheter daily for a few weeks and not realize i’m going before I can say I really do not care anymore.
I’m still looking for a biofeedback specialist in my area but it is a bit difficult in my area. Seems doctors do not have the right equipment.
I think it’s partially a mental issue & partially that we’ve simply trained our bladders to feel full far earlier than they should do we need to retrain both the mind to tolerate the feeling of needing to void & the bladder to physically hold more urine before sending the signal that it needs to be emptied.
I think it’s partially a mental issue & partially that we’ve simply trained our bladders to feel full far earlier than they should do we need to retrain both the mind to tolerate the feeling of needing to void & the bladder to physically hold more urine before sending the signal that it needs to be emptied.
I’d say it is a very tough mental block and requires a lot of dedication and support.
If anyone has beaten this curse and minds sharing their process I would greatly appreciate it.
Also what fuels this anxiety is I do not drink a lot of water. If i’m lucky I get around 40-50oz a day and I weigh in at 215lb this morning. Also my doctor gave me 5mg Oxtbutynin to try out. Take it 3 times a day or if needed.
When I was between meds my anxiety started to focus on my bladder. I had hesitancy when I tried to go, horrendous false urgency, and if I drank more than a few sips of anything, I needed to go every 20 minutes or so about 6 times in a row.
After seeing a urologist, we put the problem down to anxiety, new meds eventually kicked in and the problems all went away.
My anxiety had never presented in this way before. My psychiatrist tells me that my brain fixates on my preoccupations, so if I'm concerned about my bladder then the urge to urinate, something we normally don't think about, is at the forefront of my mind all the time and becomes a real physical issue.
When I was between meds my anxiety started to focus on my bladder. I had hesitancy when I tried to go, horrendous false urgency, and if I drank more than a few sips of anything, I needed to go every 20 minutes or so about 6 times in a row.
After seeing a urologist, we put the problem down to anxiety, new meds eventually kicked in and the problems all went away.
My anxiety had never presented in this way before. My psychiatrist tells me that my brain fixates on my preoccupations, so if I'm concerned about my bladder then the urge to urinate, something we normally don't think about, is at the forefront of my mind all the time and becomes a real physical issue.
I couldn’t agree more. Having an anxiety to the bladder is very difficult to break. And the oxybutnin didn’t work. But 50mg of Amitriptyline has been helping. Also my doctor gave me .5mg of Arimadex because my estradiol was too high.
Today I have an anxiety towards my hydration. I really do not drink much water
I was worried about drinking because of the constant running to the loo, but the urologist told me I was drinking far too little - some days only about 1.5 pints. What worked for me was to take small regular sips rather than drinking a glass down in one go.
All my problems were triggered by a particular drug which gave me hesitancy, and then my brain got hold of it and went to town. I felt the urge to go all the time, and had to ignore it, gradually increasing the number of minutes between loo visits.
A sure sign it was anxiety was that I didn’t have the symptoms during the night. Do you? Hopefully your meds will sort it all out.
I think you’re overthinking this to be perfectly honest. As you have been proven not to have diabetes insipidus it is highly unlikely that you will dehydrate yourself. The kidneys are incredibly smart - they know how much fluid you need to pee & how much you need to keep to keep your blood volume fairly constant.
It sounds like you have had a lot of investigations. What help are you having for your health anxiety? I see you don’t like medications - have you tried psychotherapy? Mindfulness will certainly be beneficial but I don’t think it will be enough for you ...
Thought exactly the same about overthinking it,the more you think about it the more youll keep needing the toilet i had frequent urination when i had fears i had bladder cancer due to them finding traces of blood in my urine.it turned out to be nothing and when i forgot about it i started urinating normally
I had a bad flare up today, I had very little to drink yet I went about 15 times. 6-7 at work and at home 7-8. I decided to stop taking my 50mg of amitriptyline the last few days but it seems I will have to take this for the rest of my life :(. I have been gaining weight due to this drug. Just about 5-6lb.
I don’t know what to do anymore. There isn’t a doctor who has a clue, and I am very dehydrated. My snap back on my skin is very delayed.
I have thought long and hard about whether to post this reply because I’m not a doctor, and I don’t want to discredit a drug that has been prescribed for you and which may not be causing your problem at all.
However, as I said in an earlier post, my urinary problems were triggered by a drug, and that drug was amitriptyline. Now I don’t know if your problems pre-date the ami, in which case it is clearly not the cause.
I had no bladder issues at all, but was crippled by anxiety after coming off trimipramine. My doctor thought it best to prescribe a close relation of this drug, amitriptyline. It helped with the anxiety, but I need a higher dose, and when I reached 50mg, the trouble started. I noticed one day (when I was not focused on these issues at all) that I had significant hesitancy before urinating. I had had urinary retention after a general anaesthetic the year before and knew this was a possible side effect of ami, so was concerned. After a couple of days the hesitancy continued, accompanied by constant false urgency: my bladder felt full when it was empty. I of course jumped to the conclusion that my bladder was in fact full, I just couldn’t empty it, and I spent all my time on the loo terrified that I was going to have to go to A&E and be catheterised. The next symptom was the frequent urination. I was afraid to drink, and when I did, I was running to the loo every few minutes.
I was beside myself, and the doctor agreed I should come off the ami. The bladder problems didn’t go away for about 6 weeks, when my anxiety began to be controlled by my next drug, escitalopram
Of course, your problem may purely be anxiety, and perhaps you just need a higher dose and it will go away, but when I saw which med you were on, I felt I had to comment given my experience.
This symptom is a horrible curse, and I hope you get relief from it soon ( forgive the terrible pun).
damo123ie's advice is spot on, you will not overcome this until you can detach your brain from the cycle it has developed. I found through my recent Prostate fears that when you stop thinking about it the frequency gradually disappears. Very hard to retrain the bladder and it takes time, but can be done
Kark
It’s very difficult to detach from something we naturally have to do every day. I guess my brains trigger for this anxiety is that actual feeling.
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