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Jimbo
10-08-07, 09:13
This originally started after a late night of typing out some of my thoughts on my own thread, but I thought I'd start a new thread on it.

I deep question, I know.:huh:

I'm interested to know what people believe in or don't believe in. What is the point/meaning of life is, why are we here, what keeps us going through the tough times we have?

This is copied from my thread along with Happyone's reply:





Something that's been on my mind a lot since last Monday's group is religion and the meaning of life. We were talking about prayer and how it helps some people. It’s triggered a lot of thinking in me about life in general.

As a young kid I went to a C of E primary school and also was in the scouts, so I was involved and aware of Christianity and its views. I was always put off by this sort of religion, the idea that there is a 'god' in control of things and everything happens for a reason because of him. That you are expected to have blind faith in something that is ethereal seems ludicrous. The idea heaven, hell and judgement based on your faith when you die seems to be a creation of a cultish person who is trying to influence people into following that particular religion. Having people under control of a particular religion gives power and the atrocities committed in the name of religion are inexcusable. This idea completely puts me off that branch of a controlling ’god’ based religion totally. Not that I am against Christians, if they chose to accept that then that is irrelevant to me. I prefer the idea that we create our own reality.

For me I've always viewed the world in an existential way. I can only be certain that I exist, I’m only aware of myself and what I perceive as reality, there is no way for me to experience reality from another person’s perspective. Maybe I just exist solely as an individual and everything I experience is just an illusion. All I can be sure of is my own existence. “I think, so therefore I am” type thing.

The philosophers would say that there is no way to prove or disprove this so it is irrelevant and we should just accept reality as we perceive it.

I still don't know the answer to the question, what is the meaning or point of life. For me, my life seems to have been a trial, a series of tests and events that have tought me things. I've experienced some terrible and beautiful experiences in my life. I’ve learned a lot, my knowledge and ‘wisdom’ as a person experiencing this reality has grown as my life has progressed. My view of the world or ‘reality’ that I perceive, is that there must be some point to it, some purpose for this existence I am experiencing.

I find the beauty of science and the physics of this universe miraculous, in a universe of infinite possibilities, in a Darwinian way, I think the product of our existence is a result of natural selection even down to the subatomic level. Some of the latest theories of science say that all possible choices and decisions that happen could coexist in a tree like system of branches of alternate realities or dimensions. Each subatomic particle or atom could coexist in multiple dimensions and we are only able to observe them in the particular dimension we are currently experiencing in the moment.

The path our lives take and the particular branch that we exist on and perceive might be pre-determined or perhaps we chose which branch we follow in the choices we make in our lives or perhaps it is just random. Perhaps we coexist in all these realities and it beyond our comprehension to be aware which particular branch we are perceiving in each moment. As humans we cannot see the future and the past is only memories so all we truly experience is the present. We would not know if we were experiencing more than one branch of reality at once.

Having experimented with hallucinogenic drugs, meditation and altered states of mind it seems obvious that the world we perceive normally with our 5 senses, interpreted by our brain is only scratching the surface of reality.

I still struggle sometimes with wondering what would happen if I did die. Would it just be oblivion or is my life is just a part of some sort of learning experience to prepare me for something after life. I like the idea in ‘The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy’ series of books that the earth or even the universe is a great computer performing some sort of calculation with a purpose.

Who knows, cause I still don’t get ‘it’ yet.:shrug:

I still don’t feel comfortable that any religion around can truly explain life. I think the most important thing to me is that I interact with other people and learn from them and hope that they learn from me too. Creating a better world for ourselves and ultimately evolving society into something better. There is so much violence and anger in this world, it feels as though things are sliding in the wrong direction for humanity at the moment. If only we could learn to accept and not judge ourselves and other people, the world would be a better place.







However, where religion is concerned I suppose you could say I am agnostic. I don't really like religion in the organised sense as it is the tool of destruction all over the world. organised religion, for me, is social control. It is insurance.
When we were at school we used to sing a song 'the church is wherever gods people are praising' I was young but it struck a cord with me even then. Why go to a church if you don't want to? If you believe in God then why not talk to him in your kitchen whilst peeling your spuds? I also think if there is a god, then he she it, would love anyone who spends their life being a good and nice person, rather than a hypocrite that goes to church every week but is a vile person.

I have this neighbour and she is always going on about what a wonder her church is for her and it is this and that and I don't knock that as the church has helped her immensely, but a bitchier person you could never meet! I think to myself she thinks she isgood because she does all this stuff with the church, but she can't see into herself enough to see how vile she can be.

Religions in their simple form are fantastic at times, but then when people start killing each other because they are one religion or other, it seems to break down. I am also anti the idea that you go to heaven if you believe in God and Jesus Christ but you don't if you don't:wacko: So the vile person who has been cruel and nasty all their life and at the last moment says 'please forgive, I welcome God into my heart' gets past the pearly gates, but the individual who has been pretty good and kind all their life, but doesn't believe doesn't:shrug: Something wrong with that one eh?
I hate the hate in this world. It really gets to me that people want to hurt each other



For me I've always viewed the world in an existential way. I can only be certain that I exist, I’m only aware of myself and what I perceive as reality, there is no way for me to experience reality from another person’s perspective. Maybe I just exist solely as an individual and everything I experience is just an illusion. All I can be sure of is my own existence. “I think, so therefore I am” type thing.


I used to think a lot about stuff like that. I went through a phase of believing that only I existed.(maybe I was ill back then too!) That everything round the corner wasn't really there until I got there. I still find it realy weird to think of the billions of people on this planet living, breathing, thinking just as I do.

I do think that I don't need to know the meaning of life, just find a meaning to it. A meaning to exist. I think that is ultmately happiness.
With regards to when we die, I don't know if we have a soul, an inner part of of us but I do think we are energy. Our life, our brains are energy and that energy is somehow transferred to something

Phill2
10-08-07, 12:24
According to The Hitchhikers Guide To The Universe the answer is 47.
I can't think of a better one myself
Phill :shades:

eeyorelover
10-08-07, 14:11
" What is the point/meaning of life is, why are we here, what keeps us going through the tough times we have?"

My kids!!! I truely believe that they are the reason I was born and the reason I kept going even thru the toughest of times!!!!

As far as how all of humanity got here. I think the book of Genesis explains that better than I ever could :) That's what I believe.

Pink Princess
10-08-07, 14:20
i think the meaning of life is to love people and give them cuddles so they can never forget you love them.

SammiB
10-08-07, 14:21
according to monty python it ends with the TINNED SALMON

i believe in heaven, but not neccessarily god, i believe there is something out there and when we get there we're happy and we are re united with those who we lost.

but the meaning of life is to live it, you only get one as you so enjoy yourself and keep it carrying on, was the world really made for us to destroy it???

i don't think so

sam

PUGLETMUM
10-08-07, 15:01
:winks: currently i believe in everything i have read in m scott pecks 'the road less travelled'(alot of the things in his book id already worked out for myself on my life's journey anyway) the point of life is to become a person who operates from the 'higher' self, and basically that is it! so like pink said you live with alot of love:yesyes: :hugs:

Jaco45er
10-08-07, 15:12
As Billy Connolly says on a Waterboys track off the album Dream Harder, we are here to:

Makes babies and look after the place.

And of course, Football ;)

Jaco (Life Guru after a few beers)

trac67
10-08-07, 16:31
Makes babies and look after the place

Jaco, isnt that why men get married ?? so they have someone to do that for them lol

I have to agree with Sandy the meaning of life to me is my 3 girls who give me a purpose to carry on fighting day in day out

Love

Trac xxx

Jimbo
10-08-07, 17:07
I agree, I think the legacy we leave behind us is the most important thing. Whether it is our children or the memories of ourselves and the way we have influenced other people's lives.

I like the concept of becoming enlightened or a 'learned man' who is wise and able to positively influence the people I touch, and is common in a lot of religions.

I like to think that I will leave behind a positive legacy to those I have encountered and not a negative one.

Jim:hugs:

Scarlett77
11-08-07, 00:42
I don't believe that there is anything after death. I envy people who do, and wish that i could, but sadly it just isn't possible for me. I am terrified of death, though oddly i find this fear's diminishing more and more as i grow older!

If i had kids then yes i believe they would give me a reason to live, so i can understand people saying that, but that doesn't apply to me, and never will. I care too much about my family to actively seek out death yet, but i do feel that the world doesn't seem to have much left to offer to me.

I try to focus on getting by and learning as much as i can. If only the meaning of lie was 47 - would make things a lot simpler lol!!! hmmmm!?!

kazzie
11-08-07, 01:03
I think we were all born to serve a purpose.......and whatever God had in mind for us once we have served that purpose we will die!!!!

I do believe in life after death but also reincarnation cos if we all died and stayed in heaven it would be bloody enormous!!!!!

Just my idle thoughts on the subject:D

Luv Kaz x x x:hugs:

Ellen70
11-08-07, 02:50
What is the meaning of life? At this point in my own life I would say life has no meaning.
The idea of a loving God up in heaven looking after us all is nice but to me no more believable than a fairtytale. I used to be a born again Christian and studied the bible extensively and after a couple of years I could no longer ignore the gaping holes and contradictions of the bible and left the Christian faith behind me.

I was not happy to do this as it was great to pray to some superior being than could help me out of unhappy situations, but the truth for me is that what is going to happen will happen and prayer to a God who may or may not exist makes no difference.

Many people say their children is the meaning of their life. However we are all individuals and surely each individual has to have it's own reason for being on this earth and not exist for the sake of other humans. Do we need children to validate our lives? The love a parent has for their children is wonderful but that is what it is - love - and love and meaning aren't nescesarily the same thing.

And if there was a God and he created the world according to the book of Genesis, then where did this God come from?, and why did he create our world when his alleged omnipotence meant that he already knew the outcome of each individual life and of the planet itself?

Also why do we have to praise and worship this God for the life he gave us and for saving us from sin, when not one person ASKED to be on this earth, and also never ASKED for the freewill that allegedly allows us to sin? If God had asked me if I wanted to be part of humanity on his Earth then I would have answered him with a resounding 'NO'.

I am currently reading 'The God Delusion' by Hawkins (Hawkins is a horrible man, nasty personality, but at least he has questioned our existence on this earth, most people just accept the stauts quo.), he attempts to explain the scientific reason for our existence here and challenges the religions of the world on their beliefs.

As for life after death? I don't think there is one and that makes me quite happy as the 70 odd years we are each allocated on this planet is more than enough for me. The idea of taking a last breath and then ceasing to exist in any form (apart from the biological body I leave behind which will degrade) is a happy one for me. When depressed and anxious I have often wished that there was an 'off' switch for my mind, and if there is no life after death, then I will get my wish for good.

These are my beliefs at this point in my life. I believe in questioning the teachings we were brought up with, even though the likelihood of any human ever finding the 'meaning' to life is remote. And would we recognise this 'meaning' if it exists and if we found it? I don't think so.

Ellen

eeyorelover
11-08-07, 03:20
Hi Ellen:flowers:


[quote]Many people say their children is the meaning of their life. However we are all individuals and surely each individual has to have it's own reason for being on this earth and not exist for the sake of other humans. Do we need children to validate our lives? The love a parent has for their children is wonderful but that is what it is - love - and love and meaning aren't nescesarily the same thing.[quote]

I wasn't saying that all people need to have children to validate their lives. I was saying that for me - my greatest joy and best accomplishment in my life are my kids. I don't think that any other emotion has the 'meaning' that love does. After all - what is more primal than the love a parent has for a child? I know that I would die to protect my kids. I'm happy when they succeed and sad when they don't. I would kill to protect them. That instinct is the same throughout all living things on the planet!

You ask about where God came from and why he would force this life upon us (I'm paraphrasing so if I got that wrong I'm sorry).

That isn't a question that I feel comfortable answering on the forum because I know that it is one that will cause alot of differing opinions and become a heated debate that no one can actually win.

All I can say is that for me it's about faith. I walk in faith everday and believe that God has a plan for me and for everyone in the world.
What that plan is - isn't a question for me to answer.

xxx
Sandy

happyone
11-08-07, 07:49
A good reply from Sandy there:yesyes:

One belief that I hold very strongly, and I am not a militant thought person myself, is
'live and let live'
Thoughts,feelings are so unique to ourselves that they are precious. If a person is not hurting anyone then let them be.
I don't believe in organised religion but I see the comfort it brings so many people so how can I knock that? Catholocism gave my granny much comfort and while it is not a path that would bring any meaning to my life, I respected it for what it brought her.
Children I believe are an undisputable meaning to life. As humans we have lost so much of our basic instincts with 'civilisation' but the instinct to want to 'make babies' (or practice the art:winks: ) is one of our strongest urges.
happyone
xx

prism
11-08-07, 14:21
I was 6 years old when i first thought "why do i exist?"
So i looked at religon for answers but by the time i was 16 i was an atheist as i didn't believe god was a workable hypothesis.
I used existentialism to define my rules for living( ten commandments was a good starting place).
So i looked to the universe for answers but all i realised was how microscopic this planet really is.
When i was 28 realized the answer to my question.
There wasn't one.
So i exist in the ebb and flow of time hoping that my existance helps the people around me.

prism

Ellen70
11-08-07, 15:05
I was 6 years old when i first thought "why do i exist?"
So i looked at religon for answers but by the time i was 16 i was an atheist as i didn't believe god was a workable hypothesis.
I used existentialism to define my rules for living( ten commandments was a good starting place).
So i looked to the universe for answers but all i realised was how microscopic this planet really is.
When i was 28 realized the answer to my question.
There wasn't one.
So i exist in the ebb and flow of time hoping that my existance helps the people around me.

prism


Totally agree with you Prism, well said. I also believe in live and let live and it makes me happy with someone follows a god/religion they have chosen for themselves. I just know so many people who follow the religion they were born into without questioning it or even thinking about it. Still I guess in a way this is a 'choice' too.


Ellen

mico
12-08-07, 19:50
This is a question I've thought about since as long as I remember. Maybe that's the reason I was kindly asked to share my opinion in this thread, because people know I can waffle on about this stuff for weeks.

Then again, my waffling on this particular subject has eased somewhat during the past couple of years. And there's a reason for that.

There's so many questions to be asked and I've already pondered over many of them and also came up with a lot of my own answers. The trouble is, each and every time, those answers always lead to more questions. So off you go again, destination infinity. What I have learned through this constant questioning, is while I am asking myself these questions I'm missing out on life itself.

Like Prism, I don't believe in any meaning of life. The answer you will often get from people, and one that is mentioned throughout this thread, is reproduction. We're here to reproduce. And we sure are, but arn't we forgetting something? Why reproduce? I'm sure people will agree that it's a natural instinct essential to the survival of any species and extremely important to all of us. Without a desire to reproduce we wouldn't be here, there would be no life in any shape or form. But reproduction doesn't provide us with any answers as to why we're here, just that we have to do it to stay here.

The problem with the human consciousness and modern civilisation is that we have far too much time on our hands look into these questions. Any other species just gets on with living, and that is what we should be doing.

As for life after death, there's an old zen story about that.

Student: What happens after you die?

Zen Master: I don't know.

Student: But you're a Zen Master.

Zen Master: Yes, but I'm not a dead one.

No one can answer that question. And besides, if you're asking it, I would assume you're not dead, in which case you shouldn't spend time worrying about it. If you're going to worry about anything, worry about living instead.

bearcrazy
12-08-07, 22:01
I am a Christian and believe that the meaning of life is to love god with all my heart and love my neighbour as myself. At the moment I find the loving the neighbour bit hard cos i dont love myself (another thread). I believe that we are born for a purpose and during our lives the purpose may change. I am a teacher and thought I was born to teach but now feel that my life is changing and that as a disciple of God, I need to put my teaching skills to a different purpose, and am starting to train as a lay minister. I also believe that it is my duty to bring up my children with attitudes of caring and love for their fellow man, so that hopefully they will be able to live full happy peaceful :shrug: lives.

PUGLETMUM
13-08-07, 11:16
:D hi all,

maybe some of you will have read 'THE ROAD LESS TRAVELLED' and maybe some of you wont, but to me this book speaks 'the truth' and i highly recommend it to those who have replyed to this thread who havent already read it,
i think you may find answers to some of the questions youve been asking yourselves and you may also see that youd worked out the answers to some of the questions youve been asking yourselves. this book talks about god living WITHIN us, a concept i am really comfortable with, and which gives so much meaning to a life.:yesyes:

Piglet
13-08-07, 11:19
Thanks Mico hun. :hugs:

Piglet :flowers:

mico
13-08-07, 16:31
At your service, ma'am.

Piglet
13-08-07, 16:39
'What's the meaning of life'

Like Mico I used to ask these questions and also like him the answers raised even more questions and that made my brain ache.

I decided awhile ago that I was perhaps better off doing more doing rather than thinking more thinking!! :wacko:

Love Piglet :flowers:

dizzyd
15-08-07, 08:54
I love your reply Piglet :)

I felt I had to reply to this thread as it is a subject very close to my heart.

For me, the meaning of life is a God given opportunity to make a difference to the World He created. A world of such immense beauty.

I try to make a difference by loving God, people, animals and the environment. I believe my experience of panic attacks and anxiety were allowed by God to make me the person I am today. (that can be very hard to get your head around, I know!) He never gave me more than I could cope with, although at the time I did wonder!!! :winks: )

Looking back over my life I feel I now have more compassion with people who suffer with anxiety/depression and have had many opportunities to help them.

I aprreciate little things I used to take for granted - eg taking son to the cinema, a walk in the woods, freedom from fear.


I enjoy making a difference to the environment - I litter pick along our road and I enjoy the chats I have with people when I do this.


I work with children - I try to make a positive difference to a childs life every day - the rewards are huge... :yesyes:


I feel blessed that I have a gorgeous son and a very patient loving husband. :shades:


My prayer life is important to me and centres me. :emot-pray: I hand my day to God at the start of each day and ask him to use me to make a difference. I often look back on my day and realise just how many God-incidences there have been.


I respect this may not sit well with some people and I do not say that my way is the only way. All I am saying is that for me Jesus is at the centre of my life and love is the one thing I can manage even when anxious!! I get huge fulfillment from giving and receiving love. Be it my family, friends, pet, garden or strangers.

Well that's the meaning to my life :flowers:

Love Dawn x

Jimbo
15-08-07, 14:14
Some lovely replies there folks. :hugs:

I've been meaning to come back and post about some of them but not got round to it.

I think in all of us, without some meaning to our lives, life becomes pointless, it's the search for that meaning that makes us human.

As humans we have the ability above any other species to have this discussion and think these thoughts. To me, that is very special and something that should not be overlooked, but treasured.

Whatever your belief about this is, it's the values that we live our lives by that's important. Whatever your values are, they are individual to you, following what you think is right based on your experiences.

As for the paradoxical question of "Is there life after death", I like Mico's response.


No one can answer that question. And besides, if you're asking it, I would assume you're not dead, in which case you shouldn't spend time worrying about it. If you're going to worry about anything, worry about living instead.

I guess we will all find out eventually. Happy living,

Jim:hugs: