View Full Version : My Anxiety is Suicide
Hi all,
I’m really going through the worst at the moment. I’m 90% sure my anxiety is my mood or depression leading to suicide. I often think of sort of how I would do it but never think about actually doing it.
In my therapy my therapist intends to give me safety statements but it’s difficult as my panic and anxiety is ‘am I suicidal?’.
With my oLd ALS worries you could ‘test’ with physical checks etc but I have no benchmark.
My therapist and I are struggling with safety statements.
(Admin: please leave this in the health anxiety section)
nomorepanic
30-09-18, 15:49
This is more about depression so why does it need to be left in the HA forum can I ask?
Because it’s an anxiety related thing. At least that’s what my therapist says and what I hope it is.
I’d like to have replies from the anxiety side of the above
nomorepanic
30-09-18, 16:15
Ok so more GAD related then?
I’m just hoping my suicidal worries are just my anxiety thinking the worst and not actual
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One safety statement is ‘just because I think it doesn’t make it true’ but she mentioned we need to work on one or two more. I guess I’m hoping the forum could help (and also to stop my panic)
MyNameIsTerry
01-10-18, 02:08
Nic, I suspect this is more about intrusive thoughts. The statements his therapist is trying would suggest this.
Ben, could you truly know with your ALS regardless of self testing as anxiety would always find some impossibility and try to panic you over it? So, perhaps you can change how you address it as your therapist is suggesting although he/she has given you a statement that could be applied to all intrusive thoughts scenarios including anything HA related.
Are you filling in the safety questionnaire? In that it asks you some questions and they help the therapist to understand the difference between someone at risk and someone struggling with the thoughts/feelings.
It asks if you have ever felt life is not worth living. I would tick Yes to that in every meeting. It asks have you been researching ways to do it. Now, you mention thinking about it but that is not quite the same as researching how to do it. Then it asks out of 10, 1 being the lowest, what would you rate your chances of acting on it? And then it asks what keeps you from acting on it.
So, for me it would look like this:
1. Yes
2. No
3. 1 out of 10
4. Family, loved ones.
My therapist said that showed how I wasn't really a risk but just sick of anxiety. She said she was satisfied I was a no risk/low risk. She also said they would be more concerned if I had been researching it so if you have please make sure you tell your therapist everything and if there are times when you are concerned you may act on these thoughts/feelings please reach out to the NHS lines, The Samaritans, your doctor, etc.
Perhaps think about whether this is because you are in pain? Have you just got sick of feeling this way? A common misconception about anxiety is that you can't be depressed because anxiety is the opposite with the heightened feelings but that's just nonsense because it implies no one with anxiety ever gets fed up and must be happy.
For instance the other day I was driving to London and I was driving fine for miles until I really took notice of a bridge randomly. I then panicked and thought about the amount of people that use bridges. I then panicked and thought ‘is that how I’m going to kill myself?!’. How you analyse that I don’t know. Then my thoughts would spiral as I imagine my daughter without a father, wife without husband etc and then I get seriously down.
I would say I’m 95% over any physical anxiety now such as MS, ALS. It’s tricky how I feel. I feel and hope I’m not suicidal. I have so many safety behaviours where I’ll shake my head when I hear the word, turn TV/Radio off whenever it’s mentioned etc.
But for I got to London and then was ‘fine’. I met up with my friend and managed to disconnect. Is this a good sign? As soon as I drove back my thoughts and feelings came back though.
---------- Post added at 06:29 ---------- Previous post was at 06:23 ----------
Terry you mentioned about the safety statement being just for generic HA has made me quite panicked as I feel it doesn’t apply to me now
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I feel very helpless
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I would give anything to going back to just believing I had MS.
And yes Terry, that is similar to the questionnaire I fill in. It just asks if you think you would be better off dead. I ticked 3 (out of 4) on that this time. My appt is later this afternoon but I’ve really regressed from last week
ankietyjoe
01-10-18, 09:45
I have known two people in my life that have committed suicide. Neither of them feared death and were in fact quite comforted by the prospect of the end.
They didn't worry about it, and weren't anxious about it.
I think Terry is 100% correct that this is anxiety based intrusive thoughts.
I've mentioned this to you before, but suicide is not an inevitable 'symptom' of depression. It's a choice that a very small number of people make. Very small.
I would imagine the fact that you're actually trying to avoid the subject and worry about it almost guarantees that you'll never actually do it. It's just an over intellectualising 'what if' scenario playing over in your mind.
MyNameIsTerry
01-10-18, 11:23
Ben, what I was saying is that the safety statement can apply to all intrusive thoughts including this one about suicide. It could be applied to HA just as it could any other theme because it is saying thoughts don't have to be reality, they can simply just be random meaningless thoughts with no insight into anything. We have them more than we realise but with anxiety we start to notice ones that we feel are more important and geared towards panic.
Your safety statement can be applied to the thoughts you are having now.
Seeing a bridge and thinking about it is a case of a trigger to the cycle. There can be many such triggers. Have you ever smelled something in a shop and had a memory? It's just how the mind works. Fight or flight does the same except it's response is in line with it's process as it works with dangers but in those with anxiety it's just that it has created irrational dangers and we have to change how we respond so it learns to change it's response to a trigger.
The fact being with people takes this away feeds more into it being intrusive thoughts, as well as how you've explained how it works. The mind is distracted. For someone depressed to the point of feeling this bad it must be a serious struggle to push such feelings away which they hide from others rather than them going away due to distraction. And there are those who are a risk because they are comforted by the thoughts as Joe said about people he knew rather than scared by the thoughts.
That's why I wondered if this is more intrusive thoughts which has self harm themes. It's less commonly seen on the HA board but more common on the OCD board. I've been through them too.
Intrusive thoughts are ego dystonic, the opposite of our beliefs. They aim to find what scares us because the greater the negative reaction the more they become reinforced in the cycle. But you will find much of what is discussed on the HA board involves intrusive thoughts which are essentially a typically scary thought that pops out of the subconscious. The trigger for it could be a twitch that triggers a subconscious "is it ALS" or seeing a bridge that triggers "should I jump" and the reaction is anxiety/panic with all the usual obsessive negative thinking that only reinforces the cycles importance.
You both make great points which I greatly have taken on board.
My therapist told me that all rational thinking is gone with panic and since Saturday night it’s all been a bit panicky. I cried on my wife as I was leaving for work this morning. But I have no additional safety statements to reassure myself and the spiral was created
MyNameIsTerry
01-10-18, 12:07
Yes, rational thinking has a fight on it's hands but it is possible and the more you learn to challenge negative thinking the more it becomes possible. Fight or flight is trying to cause the panicking and the more severe the anxiety the harder it is not to be immersed in the anxiety.
Loving father & parent = opportunity for a scary intrusive thoughts theme. Psychologists talk about how our Achilles Heal is the target for such thoughts as it's aim is to shock. What greater way for a parent than to play on their natural need to be there for their family? Another common theme is abuse of loved ones, especially children, and it again it's picking a shocking scenario that creates disgust in a parent.
The point in either is that it is seeing what is most important to you and using it against you. Why would it bother with something unimportant? It's aim is reinforcing the fear.
So some fear hurting themselves and some fear hurting others. I've been through both of these and each was about fear of hurting my loved ones whether physical or mental. The great emotional pain of losing a dad or husband obviously has the potential to create great fear in you as it must do anyone who has a physical illness. Isn't it naturally what a parent first thinks off? Don't parents spend their lives putting their kids first which makes this type of thinking totally natural to them?
You have a safety statement and your therapist will help to draft more. But I think you will find you have others that you haven't thought of. For instance, I love my family so why would I knowingly harm them? I've never done anything to harm my family so why would I now? Etc.
Your life is full of counter evidence to these thoughts. Don't you do the opposite of them on a daily basis? You work to look after and improve their lives. You try to make them happy. That's the opposite of the harm you are likely fearing is caused by these thoughts.
I've seen a few HAers on here have a shift in their fears towards intrusive thoughts of self harm and each was scared to death. That sounds like you. The catastrophizing can easily be seen just as theirs was.
My belief of these people was that this was a theme in anxiety they weren't very aware of hence it scared the life out of them. That's natural considering the content of these thoughts, the perceived impacts, perceived links to depression and the sad outcomes of some of those cases, etc. But try to see this as anxiety shifting to another theme that's within it's sphere, it's very likely the same patterns you have been through in your HA.
And HA in OCD fits into the so called "Pure O" end which is centred around intrusive thoughts. So it's possible to have a shift to a theme like this and given HAers tend to fear death, and it's ramifications, is it so different?
I'm not a HAer and I'm not bothered about my death. Death of loves ones is a different matter as I don't want them to suffer anything. My self harm and harming of loved ones thoughts always came back to the impact on them. I suspect at least some of yours will come from that, the rest probably about any other fears about death? This gives anxiety not such a big jump from you becoming ill and them losing you to self harm as both bring pain to loved ones.
Remember, counter evidence. Why would you bring harm to your loved ones? Isn't your life about doing the total opposite? It's all evidence against this theme.
Uncertainty and lack of self control are anxiety foundations. They will feed into this too. Your therapist can help you with this and intrusive thoughts techniques. Ultimately intrusive thoughts respond to certain things e.g. reducing overall anxiety levels reduces intensity & frequency, changing reactions from negatives to neutral/positive starves the feedback process, etc. And elimination of compulsions, some of which you've stated above.
Terry I cannot thank you enough for the full in-depth post. You have absolutely hit the nail on he head. I actually think I’ll refer to this when I need a positivity boost. Thanks so much
mezzaninedoor
02-10-18, 06:39
I wrote this BLOG post very recently.
I just wanted to post it somewhere where it might help someone.
Terrys words here were fantastically helpful.
So some words, hopefully helpful:-
http://tonyamis.blogspot.com/2018/10/suicidal-thoughts-thoughts-on-thoughts.html
I don’t think I’m ready to read that sorry mazzaninedoor
mezzaninedoor
02-10-18, 08:42
Ben, thats absolutely fine
The main thrust of it is I use the term YANA written on my notepads to remind me
You Are Not Alone
I nicked it from a Doctor Who episode would you believe it
Take care
Wonderfully insightful and helpful posts, Terry and Mezz.
I couldn't read all of your blog, Mezz, but for me I feel very much alone with all this as I can't share my feelings/issues with anyone in "real life" and any "weakness" is met with anger. Some people are alone unfortunately.
Ben, I hope the therapy helps you to rationalise these fears. Keep posting if we can help to support you.
My wife randomly showed me a picture of a house that in our price range on Zoopla.
As she showed me a picture of the staircase I thought ‘that’ll be where my family find myself hanged’.
I’m absolutely petrified. What’s happening to me? I’m so scared
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Just to clarify I’ve never thought about ending my life or anything similar.
My anxiety regarding suicide specifically has been fairly well subdued recently. It just randomly happened and a huge sweat and panic broke out
ankietyjoe
14-10-18, 19:11
Doesn't mean a thing. It's a single random thought.
It came, it went, and now you're the one nurturing the idea that it means anything.
Let it go.
Thanks Joe,
I went for an immediate run, did a guided meditation and I have calmed down. Thanks for the reassurance, it was obviously a petrifying image
ankietyjoe
14-10-18, 19:55
Yeah they are. Sometimes if my kids are acting up I imagine myself smacking their heads together (I'm sure you empathise lol), but it doesn't mean I'd ever do it. There are myriad thoughts that come into my head every day that I don't act on.
MyNameIsTerry
15-10-18, 02:35
Glad to help before, Ben.
What you've experienced here is just another intrusive thought. If you looked at that picture and up popped that horrible thought/image out of nowhere then that's a classic intrusive thought. It found a possible trigger and went with it.
Like much of our subconscious thinking these thoughts can be triggered like any other panic/anxiety scenario. It's no different to "see lump, thought pops up about cancer x, y z, etc".
The thing is, they are finding the mind just works like this. Other subconscious thoughts just pop up and there are subtle triggers. Think of it a bit like seeing a chocolate bar and thinking you want one because they have always been ones you liked or a smell bringing a memory with feelings with it.
It's just an overactive subconscious looking for stuff to do and an overly sensitive conscious reacting too strongly in a negative manner to it.
It's just an overactive subconscious looking for stuff to do and an overly sensitive conscious reacting too strongly in a negative manner to it.
This may be the best thing I've ever read on this board. You are spot on Terry.
MyNameIsTerry
16-10-18, 02:30
This may be the best thing I've ever read on this board. You are spot on Terry.
Thanks Nancy, I guess it's the common sense description that dominates anxiety self help from the likes of Dr Claire Weekes to creators of this or that therapy. But god is it damn hard not to do once it's in your head!
---------- Post added at 02:30 ---------- Previous post was at 02:04 ----------
I wrote this BLOG post very recently.
I just wanted to post it somewhere where it might help someone.
Terrys words here were fantastically helpful.
So some words, hopefully helpful:-
http://tonyamis.blogspot.com/2018/10/suicidal-thoughts-thoughts-on-thoughts.html
That's an insightful blogpost about your feelings on the subject, Tony. And it's not in the kind of detail that could be triggering so anyone could read it and see they are not alone.
Just had to come back to this as I've relapsed a bit.
A guy killed himself on Friday at the motorway bridge down the road from me. Furthermore, it was a close colleague's step son. It's really made me relapse.
Trying to find strength.
Need a bit of support and comfort. My head is all over the place. I had a fairly 'stable' mind for months and now it's just crazy. Cannot concentrate, have completely blank emotions
I'm sorry you're having a rough time, and the trauma your colleague is going through would affect anyone.
I have OCD and used to have very alarming intrusive thoughts. What I learned to do (with help) is to acknowledge them head-on as intrusive thoughts and nothing more.
So, if I saw a bridge and thought about suicide I would say to myself something like, "Oh, hey, OCD brain. Great to hear from you with that boring old stuff about bridges and suicide." and then I would move on. I don't try to control them; I don't try to rationalize them; I don't spend a bunch of time thinking about them as if they are in any way rational thoughts. I identify them as intrusive thoughts related to my wonky OCD brain and that's it.
If that sounds like an approach that might work for you, you might mention it to your therapist. These are weird and alarming thoughts, but that's all they are. They aren't plans or magic spells. I hope that helps even a bit and I apologize if it didn't. Lots of people have been where you are and gotten through it! Sending you good thoughts!
Need a bit of support and comfort. My head is all over the place. I had a fairly 'stable' mind for months and now it's just crazy. Cannot concentrate, have completely blank emotions
Im sorry if you have covered this however have you told your doctor exactly how you feel? Could be wrong but sounds like you need some time out of work and ideally somewhere there is always people to look out for you. My advice would be to have a couple of trusted people to receive a call from you. Whenever you start feeling really low talk to them.
I had therapy for this but it has since ended and I was ‘okay’ for months until this event. One main huge anxiety was ‘is this me wanting to do something or just the anxiety?’. My therapy helped guide me to it’s just the anxiety side but I’m back at that two road point where I don’t know what it is and I’m quite scared
I would start seeing your therapist again to help you get back on track. If that means going through you gp then just say how you are feeling to them.
I just need nudging in the right direction
It sounds as though you need a little extra help. Why not have a chat to your GP?
It sounds as though you need a little extra help. Why not have a chat to your GP?
I just really don’t want this to be my options and I imagine they’ll put me on meds which I definitely do not want
I just really don’t want this to be my options and I imagine they’ll put me on meds which I definitely do not want
So what do you want? You came on asking how to help you deal with a very challenging mental situation. Several members who are sufferers themselves give you sound advice but it's not what you want? Ben, while there are a few that have the inner fortitude to climb out of the rabbit hole, the majority need some help and that's what meds and therapy are for. It's Ok to need a crutch while you're learning to walk again.
Positive thoughts
Thank you, FMP. I spent years working out that I couldn't beat my anxiety by willpower alone.
Of course, Ben, you might be stronger than I am, but what you've posted suggests not.
Im on them. No shame in getting some help if you need it.
MyNameIsTerry
25-08-19, 01:48
Ben, you've had a big shock. Why not see it for what it is, a big trigger and not necessarily a backwards step? I would expect your GP will notice there is a traumatic element here and they know it can mean a short period of letting your body calm down. They may just monitor you.
Accept you have fallen off the wagon due to a big shock and it's time to start working on those things you learned in your therapy to get yourself back on track.
Thank you everyone. In my own opinion I see meds’ as taking a backwards step for me personally. Yes this is probably completely wrong for viewing it as such. I see it as once you’re on them you can’t come off and that’s it you’re stuck. I’d like if people told me otherwise as my view is a completely uneducated view. Especially as I thought I’d conquered it. I’m just very just scared at the moment to be honest.
As I mentioned above, before therapy I was in the same position as I didn’t know if it was my anxiety or me actually feeling this way. She pulled me towards anxiety and things calmed down so much after that but the big trigger has put me back there which is where the me being petrified comes from. It’s very hard fighting an anxiety that is actually a mental state and not a physical illness. It’s a mental illness about a mental illness. Even explaining this on here makes me feel better, actually.
Use of meds and the length of time you're on them is an individual thing. My sister has been on Prozac for years and my daughter has been on various meds for years as well. When I went through depression after my illnesses, I sought therapy and used meds. I was on Zoloft for 6 months and used Buspar when needed for around two years. Both enabled me to quell the negativity and focus on therapy and techniques.
Look at it this way. I complained to my doctor about the number of medications I need to take for my physical issues. He said, "Just be thankful we live in a time where a little pill can improve and prolong the quality of our lives". Whether it's for a physical or mental illness, if a pill can help you have a better quality of life, isn't it worth it?
Positive thoughts
WiredIncorrectly
26-08-19, 18:45
I have known two people in my life that have committed suicide. Neither of them feared death and were in fact quite comforted by the prospect of the end.
They didn't worry about it, and weren't anxious about it.
I think Terry is 100% correct that this is anxiety based intrusive thoughts.
I've mentioned this to you before, but suicide is not an inevitable 'symptom' of depression. It's a choice that a very small number of people make. Very small.
I would imagine the fact that you're actually trying to avoid the subject and worry about it almost guarantees that you'll never actually do it. It's just an over intellectualising 'what if' scenario playing over in your mind.
This! There's only been a handful of times in life where I've felt like this is it and you have to be at the lowest point possible to get to that stage. In those periods you have no issues with dying. My doc said this to me before on how to tell the difference. It's also how the mental health team grades you. If you call up asking for help because you want to die you've pretty much told them you're not suicidal because suicidal people do not reach out for help. It's seen as a cry for help and not one to be ignored because those cries can lead to feelings of helplessness which can then lead to worse things.
Sorry I'm babbling. Personal experience. But, I think you're worried over the intrusive thoughts. Maybe worried these thoughts may get worse and cause you to commit suicide? I don't think that will happen tbh. Like I said, you have to be at a very low point mentally to get to that stage.
I have intrusive thoughts. But they're not really intrusive thoughts, they're just my morbid thoughts. Like driving in the passenger seat of a car on a motorway and telling yourself "Imagine if that lorry smashes in the side of the car. I'd be dead for certain". When I'd ride my motorbike I'd be doing 90 down the road and think "What if my hand slipped and I swerve into that wall?". I think to an extent a lot of people have stupid thoughts but they don't dwell on them. I think that's the difference between normies and anxies tbh. We overthink everything.
My feelings towards it have now subsided quite a lot. I think it was a HUGE panic trigger for me
MyNameIsTerry
04-09-19, 02:37
Glad to hear you are doing better, Ben. :yesyes:
This is why doctors are wary of reaching straight for the meds unless someone looks to be going into a long term struggle. They know you can deal with it and get back and track. It's why short term meds like benzos are used rather than long term antidepressant meds that take ages to help.
See it as a learning experience about your anxiety. If it happens again you know it may just mean a few uncomfortable days/weeks but you can get back on track. If things don't change, that's when meds may be a consideration.
Hi all,
Looks like i'm struggling with EXACTLY the same thing Ben used to struggling with. For me it started with pain in my chest and it will lead to heart attack or something. Doctor checked my heart and there was nothing wrong with it. I got therapy and found out that this 'chest issues' where caused by stress. So, at a moment I wasn't fearing that anymore.
Since september '19 I've started a new study at the university and from the beginning it was really stressful. I already had this anxiety issues and the study stress made it worser. That fear of suicide started in september and I still have it now each day. Would I like to die? No. I'm pretty young and in my opinion life has so many opportunities if all of this is over. However, this anxiety is horrible. Although I continue my study, I have thoughts like: maybe I won't be there in a few weeks. Although this fear is incredibly illogical, it makes me gloomy. If suicidality did not exist or I was convinced that I would never do this, I would go through life without worry and feel great. I am currently following (metacognitive) therapy, but I still do not really know what to do if such thoughts hit my mind. What are your advice in this?
Rinkrt
Iridescentunicorn
01-02-20, 23:16
Hi all,
Looks like i'm struggling with EXACTLY the same thing Ben used to struggling with. For me it started with pain in my chest and it will lead to heart attack or something. Doctor checked my heart and there was nothing wrong with it. I got therapy and found out that this 'chest issues' where caused by stress. So, at a moment I wasn't fearing that anymore.
Since september '19 I've started a new study at the university and from the beginning it was really stressful. I already had this anxiety issues and the study stress made it worser. That fear of suicide started in september and I still have it now each day. Would I like to die? No. I'm pretty young and in my opinion life has so many opportunities if all of this is over. However, this anxiety is horrible. Although I continue my study, I have thoughts like: maybe I won't be there in a few weeks. Although this fear is incredibly illogical, it makes me gloomy. If suicidality did not exist or I was convinced that I would never do this, I would go through life without worry and feel great. I am currently following (metacognitive) therapy, but I still do not really know what to do if such thoughts hit my mind. What are your advice in this?
Rinkrt
Yes iam feeling exactly the same, I’m glad i found this post as I really didn’t want to tell anyone that these thoughts have started in my head, especially family as I think it would upset them. But as you say.. do I want to die? Absolutely not! I think I’m just getting fed up and exhausted with the constant anxiety and new symptoms. But I feel slightly comforted by this ‘intrusive thoughts’ theory as I have never heard of this in the form of suicidal thoughts I just thought I was losing control of my mind and it was out my hands I would eventually become totally suicidal whether I liked it or not.
Hopefully I can gain some control over this now
Having the same since July last year and been diagnosed with burnout in October. Sometimes you don't even know what is true or false. I still have them but they seem to have less meaning and don't feel that real anymore. Hopefully these will subside soon. My therapist says emotional exhaustion or fatigue can cause a lot of irrational thinking.
The best advice I can give is don't interact with the toughts or feelings. That is what fuels them. Notice them and go on with your day. If you give them power like stress or anxiety they will become stronger and more frequent.
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