To get the vaccine or not

[Panicandpeace]

Hey all! If y'all know my back story from my other post, skip to the second paragraph (or keep reading if you want a refresher!) So long story short, if you've read my other posts, you may be familiar with my fear of rabies, but to summarize, I was initially worried about a possible, non-bite exposure from several years ago. After I was assured by my doctor that I'm "most likely" fine, my brain, I think, decided to latch onto other ways I could get rabies. I've always been afraid of bats, even though I've never seen one in real life (that I'm aware of) other than at the zoo. My brain started to have anxiety about simply being outside because, obviously, I thought, I'll get bitten by a bat, whether in the middle of the day or not, and not know it. This has caused me to retrace my steps and walk around looking to make sure there are no downed bats where I've been walking. The other day, when I came inside my toe was hurting and I panicked and thought a bat had bitten me without me knowing, and again, I went outside and retraced my steps looking for bats (at noon), although I'm pretty sure I didn't see anything, there are always a lot of leaves in the yard, and I'm afraid I may have missed a bat by mistaking it for a leaf. Anyway, later that day, a vivid image of a bat lying on the sidewalk in front of my house popped into my head, and basically, as weird as it sounds, I am confused as to what my real memory is. Did I or did I not see a bat? I even have an image of me pushing a bat aside with my foot. So weird. Why can I so clearly see an image of a bat on the sidewalk? Did I get bitten/touch a bat and in some dissociative state ignore it? Rationally, I think if I were bitten by a bat, I would've driven right to the hospital or taken a photo of it, called and told my mom or somebody, etc. But my brain is playing the what if's. Also, my toe is tingling, just that one toe (it's been 5 days), which I know can be a beginning symptom (and yes I know, in a few days, we'll know if this is truly a symptom or not because I'd be dead). This has only heightened my worry.

Anyway, long story long, I'm thinking about getting the pre-exposure vaccine for peace of mind (granted that my toe is, hopefully, tingling because of anxiety). I know this would NOT be an end all, solve all solution, and I do have a psych appointment later this month to address my anxiety. I sincerely want to get to the root of the issue and work on the way my brain thinks and responds to anxiety and intrusive thinking with CBT. However, this vivid bat imagery is throwing me and messing with my memories and sense of reality. I'm inclined to get the PrEP because I'm outside a lot during the day, and obviously I can't keep assuming I'm getting bitten every time I step outside. However, there is also a part of me that wants to go to the ER and get the full on post-exposure series just in case that image in my brain is real. I'm really struggling with making a decision.

[NervUs]

There is absolutely no way you should go to the ER and get RPEP. My lord, that would be succumbing to OCD entirely.

You know you are having intrusive thoughts. DO NOT VALIDATE THEM.

[Panicandpeace]

There is absolutely no way you should go to the ER and get RPEP. My lord, that would be succumbing to OCD entirely.

You know you are having intrusive thoughts. DO NOT VALIDATE THEM.

I agree, however, there is just the "WHAT IF this isn't a false memory? What if that image of a bat on the sidewalk is real, and not the other way around? Why does my toe still hurt, and why is it tingling?" I've gotten tingly limbs and stuff from anxiety before but not in one toe, in the specific area I felt pain/had a mark. It's maddening to not be able to trust which memory is real.

[Fishmanpa]

I agree, however, there is just the "WHAT IF this isn't a false memory? What if that image of a bat on the sidewalk is real, and not the other way around? Why does my toe still hurt, and why is it tingling?" I've gotten tingly limbs and stuff from anxiety before but not in one toe, in the specific area I felt pain/had a mark. It's maddening to not be able to trust which memory is real.

I understand that to you, this may seem real but the reality is, it just isn't :lac:

Positive thoughts

[NervUs]

I agree, however, there is just the "WHAT IF this isn't a false memory? What if that image of a bat on the sidewalk is real, and not the other way around? Why does my toe still hurt, and why is it tingling?" I've gotten tingly limbs and stuff from anxiety before but not in one toe, in the specific area I felt pain/had a mark. It's maddening to not be able to trust which memory is real.

For myself, I go by the rule, if I am not sure, it means the outlandish thing did not happen.

People who come into contact with bats KNOW it. You are wavering and unclear. That means you err on the side of no RPEP. You do know it often ends up costing $10K or more out of pocket in the US...and there is a fairly high vaccine injury rate, like 10% having not minor reactions to the vaccine. Does that change your thinking at all?

[Panicandpeace]

For myself, I go by the rule, if I am not sure, it means the outlandish thing did not happen.

People who come into contact with bats KNOW it. You are wavering and unclear. That means you err on the side of no RPEP. You do know it often ends up costing $10K or more out of pocket in the US...and there is a fairly high vaccine injury rate, like 10% having not minor reactions to the vaccine. Does that change your thinking at all?

I guess, that is a good rule to go by. And that is exactly what my rational side thinks... like, "duh, you wouldn't have just walked by a bat, touched it with your foot, and thought, hmmm," and kept going like it was nothing. Certainly, I would have called somebody and told them about it/called animal control/taken a photo/something... I know I keep repeating myself, but I'm just concerned that that image of a bat in my head is real because of the things I've read about people getting bat bites without knowing it. I just feel as though, if I make the wrong decision, it could obviously end up costing me my life. I know that may seem dramatic, but it's honestly how I feel.

As far as the vaccine side effects, I guess I've read that side effects of the modern vaccine are rare, at least the "severe" ones, kind of along the lines of other vaccines. You can technically get things like Guillain-Barre from the flu shot. All vaccines have risks. Certainly it's an important thing to consider, I don't disagree at all. Oh, and long story short, I've hit my out of pocket max for the year, so the shots wouldn't cost me anything, as they are covered.

---------- Post added at 20:09 ---------- Previous post was at 20:08 ----------


I understand that to you, this may seem real but the reality is, it just isn't :lac:

Positive thoughts

I just wish I were confident in my recollection. It's very frustrating to not trust your own memory.

[Fishmanpa]

Just wish I were confident in my recollection. It's very frustrating to not trust your own memory.

Again, respectfully, I know your OCD is grabbing you by the ca-hones and I can see the struggle in your words but we're talking about black and white fact here. The image in your head is just not real. :shrug:

Positive thoughts

[MyNameIsTerry]

In OCD you can have themes that collide with each other. AS seen here you've got the original theme about rabies from a health perspective which is now colliding with false memory OCD, a separate theme. Magical Thinking often appears with other themes, I found.

Question. Person A is terrified of rabies. Person B doesn't have any such concern, maybe doesn't even have anxiety.

Person A is walking down the street and a bat is on the floor. Does person A go near to the bat or away from it? Do they attempt to touch the bat? Do they expose their skin to it?

Person B is walking down the street and a bat is on the floor. Applying the same questions what do they do?

If you want to, remove bat and add in spider. Person A has Arachnophobia. Person B isn't bothered by spiders.

Would person A help that struggling spider out or be repelled by it? Would person B just walk up to the spider and pick it up to help it? Even if person A felt strongly enough about helping the spider how would they feel throughout the experience? Would person A feel the same as person B.

Now think about how that would apply to memory. Would person A remember this event? Would person B remember it? How would they differ in remembering it?

[Panicandpeace]

Again, respectfully, I know your OCD is grabbing you by the ca-hones and I can see the struggle in your words but we're talking about black and white fact here. The image in your head is just not real. :shrug:

Positive thoughts

I appreciate that you can see my struggle! I really wish I could think of it as a black and white fact. The problem is that I'm now worried that the bat memory isn't the false one, and I'm actually trying to convince myself the bat wasn't there. It's a pretty vicious cycle. It also does NOT help that my brain is focused on that one toe, and it seems to be tingling.

---------- Post added at 22:31 ---------- Previous post was at 22:27 ----------


In OCD you can have themes that collide with each other. AS seen here you've got the original theme about rabies from a health perspective which is now colliding with false memory OCD, a separate theme. Magical Thinking often appears with other themes, I found.

Question. Person A is terrified of rabies. Person B doesn't have any such concern, maybe doesn't even have anxiety.

Person A is walking down the street and a bat is on the floor. Does person A go near to the bat or away from it? Do they attempt to touch the bat? Do they expose their skin to it?

Person B is walking down the street and a bat is on the floor. Applying the same questions what do they do?

If you want to, remove bat and add in spider. Person A has Arachnophobia. Person B isn't bothered by spiders.

Would person A help that struggling spider out or be repelled by it? Would person B just walk up to the spider and pick it up to help it? Even if person A felt strongly enough about helping the spider how would they feel throughout the experience? Would person A feel the same as person B.

Now think about how that would apply to memory. Would person A remember this event? Would person B remember it? How would they differ in remembering it?

This is very interesting and helpful. Obviously, as person A, I would have tried to stay clear of the bat (or spider), and my memory of the event would be terrifying/memorable to say the least and would differ from person B's memory in its significance. The rational part of my brain agrees with this line of thinking.

[MyNameIsTerry]

This is very interesting and helpful. Obviously, as person A, I would have tried to stay clear of the bat (or spider), and my memory of the event would be terrifying/memorable to say the least and would differ from person B's memory in its significance. The rational part of my brain agrees with this line of thinking.

That's correct. So, consciously you have world through the problem and framed a conclusion. The subconscious though takes more time to make changes and therefore it's important to keep on being rational/logical and not falling into it's traps of making you panic and spiral into obsessive-compulsive cycles.

Another trick it might try on you is "what if I repressed the memory?". But you have to consider how this wouldn't being a massively traumatic event that the mind tries to escape from in the same way people who go through that have experienced. It's just another "what if" doubt anxiety poses knowing you can't get an absolute answer.

Tolerating the "shades of grey" is important as these disorders thrive in needing 100% solid answers, known as All-or-nothing thinking in Cognitive Distortions.

The inner chimp wants to know everything is perfect so we are safe. It can't always get that so it just keeps throwing a wobbly even more.

In many ways it's like seeing a toddler throwing a tantrum in a shop. :D If only the mother's old favourite saying of "stop crying or you'll get something to cry about in a minute!" worked on this stuff. :winks:

[Panicandpeace]

That's correct. So, consciously you have world through the problem and framed a conclusion. The subconscious though takes more time to make changes and therefore it's important to keep on being rational/logical and not falling into it's traps of making you panic and spiral into obsessive-compulsive cycles.

Another trick it might try on you is "what if I repressed the memory?". But you have to consider how this wouldn't being a massively traumatic event that the mind tries to escape from in the same way people who go through that have experienced. It's just another "what if" doubt anxiety poses knowing you can't get an absolute answer.

Tolerating the "shades of grey" is important as these disorders thrive in needing 100% solid answers, known as All-or-nothing thinking in Cognitive Distortions.

The inner chimp wants to know everything is perfect so we are safe. It can't always get that so it just keeps throwing a wobbly even more.

In many ways it's like seeing a toddler throwing a tantrum in a shop. :D If only the mother's old favourite saying of "stop crying or you'll get something to cry about in a minute!" worked on this stuff. :winks:

This----> Another trick it might try on you is "what if I repressed the memory?" is exactly what my fear is. Nail on the head. Because that image is so vivid, I keep going in circles of, "Of course there wasn't a bat. Wait, yes there was a bat. Was there or was there not a bat?! Why can I see a bat in my brain, when before that day, I had never seen a bat in real life (again, other than at the zoo)?! I must have seen a bat!"

I talked to my primary care physician today. I had a follow-up appointment, and it just happened to be good timing as these fears have heightened. He's always so kind and patient, even though I know what I'm saying out loud is irrational. I did ask about the pre-exposure vaccine, just for peace of mind being outside. He said they don't stock it in his office and that I'd have to go to a travel clinic or back to the ID doctor, but if it would "scratch that itch" I could look into it. I was honest in saying, it might help but it might not, and that even if it did I would probably just go down another wormhole, which is why I'd asked him for the psych referral. I told him the soonest appointment I could get was in 2 weeks, and he offered me this really cool option in the meantime, of a newish program that links patients with therapists basically through Facetime/Skype and it's all covered by insurance and is totally CBT focused. I'm pretty excited about it. He said they would most likely get in touch by the end of the week.

[MyNameIsTerry]

That's good news. Well worth pursuing this therapy route.

You're absolutely right about the vaccine. All it will possibly do is allow you to move past this current cycle of anxiety but it shouldn't be there in the first place so will just find itself another target to start it off again. And then we have those who start to doubt tests & vaccines (look at the HIV threads) where it can range into the remotest possibilities like staff tampering/errors or a sociopath in the manufacturing process tainting things. I've seen exactly those "what ifs" on more than one HIV thread in my time here.

This is why it's useful to try to remove the emotion by observing thoughts just as thoughts that have the right to exist. In Mindfulness it teaches you to act as the curious observer that let's thoughts just be and doesn't necessarily get involved in them.

Try to see these subconscious "what ifs" as merely a load of brainstorming. In a brainstorming session it's common to write down stuff you know is rare or unlikely as a way to close of those avenues of investigation. Try to see the subconscious this way, it's blurting out stuff that may be useful or nonsense asking the conscious mind to decide which is which.

As for the imagery with your false memory issue, I can understand it. I'm not the only person on here (I bet there have been loads of us but I've spoken to some members who've said what I'm about to) who's seen graphic images in their intrusive thoughts. In mine, which a large proportion were about harming loved ones or strangers, I would see myself performing the act itself.

To back up my own experience I know of another person who was very disturbed by these graphic images. They got into therapy where they were told it's just their OCD and they greatly improved to the point of beating those problems.

I beat mine a few years ago.

So, if there are people who can see themselves physically harming a person in an intrusive thought doesn't that prove that your mind could do the same with a bat? And let's not forget we dream & daydream where imagery is conjured up by the subconscious.

Therefore the subconscious can conjure up that imagery of your bat.

[Panicandpeace]

That's good news. Well worth pursuing this therapy route.

You're absolutely right about the vaccine. All it will possibly do is allow you to move past this current cycle of anxiety but it shouldn't be there in the first place so will just find itself another target to start it off again. And then we have those who start to doubt tests & vaccines (look at the HIV threads) where it can range into the remotest possibilities like staff tampering/errors or a sociopath in the manufacturing process tainting things. I've seen exactly those "what ifs" on more than one HIV thread in my time here.

This is why it's useful to try to remove the emotion by observing thoughts just as thoughts that have the right to exist. In Mindfulness it teaches you to act as the curious observer that let's thoughts just be and doesn't necessarily get involved in them.

Try to see these subconscious "what ifs" as merely a load of brainstorming. In a brainstorming session it's common to write down stuff you know is rare or unlikely as a way to close of those avenues of investigation. Try to see the subconscious this way, it's blurting out stuff that may be useful or nonsense asking the conscious mind to decide which is which.

As for the imagery with your false memory issue, I can understand it. I'm not the only person on here (I bet there have been loads of us but I've spoken to some members who've said what I'm about to) who's seen graphic images in their intrusive thoughts. In mine, which a large proportion were about harming loved ones or strangers, I would see myself performing the act itself.

To back up my own experience I know of another person who was very disturbed by these graphic images. They got into therapy where they were told it's just their OCD and they greatly improved to the point of beating those problems.

I beat mine a few years ago.

So, if there are people who can see themselves physically harming a person in an intrusive thought doesn't that prove that your mind could do the same with a bat? And let's not forget we dream & daydream where imagery is conjured up by the subconscious.

Therefore the subconscious can conjure up that imagery of your bat.

*You're absolutely right about the vaccine. All it will possibly do is allow you to move past this current cycle of anxiety but it shouldn't be there in the first place so will just find itself another target to start it off again.*

So, I've had trouble even finding a place that offers the vaccine... maybe it's a sign? haha. Although my insurance covers it, I can't find anywhere that offers the vaccine other than travel clinics that don't accept insurance.

You're right, the anxiety probably shouldn't be there, and I've calmed down a bit since last week, but I sometimes can't help but think that I'm calming down because the memory is fading... and again, the what if's: what if that memory is real? You don't want it to fade away before you know for sure if it's real or fake. And my toe is tingling nonstop and driving me insane!

Try to see these subconscious "what ifs" as merely a load of brainstorming. In a brainstorming session it's common to write down stuff you know is rare or unlikely as a way to close of those avenues of investigation. Try to see the subconscious this way, it's blurting out stuff that may be useful or nonsense asking the conscious mind to decide which is which.

This is a great way to look at it!!

So, if there are people who can see themselves physically harming a person in an intrusive thought doesn't that prove that your mind could do the same with a bat? And let's not forget we dream & daydream where imagery is conjured up by the subconscious.

Absolutely!! I have a vivid imagination for sure. I guess, again, I'm just kind of in the process of determining if that memory is in fact false because I unfortunately, just can't remember... or better said, I'm remembering two different versions of the same day. One with a bat and one without.

I kind of felt better after I asked the neighbor if there were bats in the neighborhood, and she said she hadn't seen bats in years, which isn't the same as no bats, but did make me feel a bit better.. . However, then I thought, well my aunt had a bunch of bats in her attic, and I never once saw them around her house. So much for that fleeting moment of comfort haha.

Thanks for all of your input. I think you put things into perspective really well! Good for you for overcoming your intrusive thinking. I've had that for a long time, forget about the current bat situation. My earliest one included me driving off a bridge into a lake when I would make the 2 hour drive back and forth from college. Not because I was suicidal in any way, shape, or form, but just because I thought my body would somehow, involuntarily just veer off of the bridge into the water. I got over it eventually.

[Panicandpeace]

Feeling a bit anxious today. Just the usual, confusion/questioning of whether I saw a bat that day a couple weeks ago. I've been pretty good because I just decided not to think about it, but every once in while, I still do, and it freaks me out. Getting further and further away from the memory (the one which I can't decide is false and there was actually no bat OR real and there was a bat), while it has kind of calmed the anxiety, also makes me worry occasionally that I'm tucking away an important detail... my brain goes, "don't forget about this! You need to go get the shots. Sure, you're fine now, but what about in a month or two?! Or a year from now?! OR LONGER since you *think* you got bitten on the toe?!" It doesn't help that I was watching Instagram stories today, and one of my friends posted a video of a raccoon out and about in broad daylight. She was like, "Does the fact that this raccoon is out in the middle of the day mean it has rabies?" ...and I'm like UH YEAH, MAYBE... STOP GETTING SO CLOSE TO IT! Anyway. Just feeling the anxiety today. My foot was buzzing yesterday.

[textsfromthemoon]

Sometimes our anxieties surge on us but don't let that erase the progress you've made, remember to keep challenging your anxious/intrusive thoughts, keep yourself distracted and remind yourself that your symptoms are anxiety...NOT RABIES

[Panicandpeace]

Sometimes our anxieties surge on us but don't let that erase the progress you've made, remember to keep challenging your anxious/intrusive thoughts, keep yourself distracted and remind yourself that your symptoms are anxiety...NOT RABIES

Thank you for the encouragement. I sometimes can't shake the feeling that I did get bitten by a bat, and for whatever reason, didn't have a reaction, and just kept going about my day as if nothing happened. Like I repressed the memory. Also, today, I'm having another episode of feeling like a bat bit me while I was walking to my car. I have on jeans and sneakers and a bit of my ankle/lower calf is exposed and am worried that a bat bit me on that part of my body. Feeling quite panicky at the moment. I have very fair skin, so I tend to always have redness or marks, plus all the things I've read (not recently, I'm trying to stay away from Google) about bat bites not being visible... not in a good place today.

[textsfromthemoon]

Thank you for the encouragement. I sometimes can't shake the feeling that I did get bitten by a bat, and for whatever reason, didn't have a reaction, and just kept going about my day as if nothing happened. Like I repressed the memory. Also, today, I'm having another episode of feeling like a bat bit me while I was walking to my car. I have on jeans and sneakers and a bit of my ankle/lower calf is exposed and am worried that a bat bit me on that part of my body. Feeling quite panicky at the moment. I have very fair skin, so I tend to always have redness or marks, plus all the things I've read (not recently, I'm trying to stay away from Google) about bat bites not being visible... not in a good place today.

I've been there but keep reminding yourself that this is your anxiety causing you to think these things, most people go their entire lives without ever having any interactions with bats, the odds that you would have had all of these bat exposures within a matter of weeks are slim to none, its your anxiety creating this feeling of "exposure", I've gone through the same thing a few times myself, just keep focusing on tackling your anxieties and rationalizing your thoughts and definitely no visits to Dr. Google :hugs:

[Panicandpeace]

I've been there but keep reminding yourself that this is your anxiety causing you to think these things, most people go their entire lives without ever having any interactions with bats, the odds that you would have had all of these bat exposures within a matter of weeks are slim to none, its your anxiety creating this feeling of "exposure", I've gone through the same thing a few times myself, just keep focusing on tackling your anxieties and rationalizing your thoughts and definitely no visits to Dr. Google :hugs:

I definitely am trying to stay away from Dr. Google!! I have just been going through a phase of assuming every time I've been outside that I've been bitten by a bat and have worried myself that it's because I'm traumatized from getting bitten a few weeks ago...

I went and saw a psychiatrist this week. He told me that he does more of medication assessment/management and not therapy. While I know medication can be helpful, I really think CBT is what is truly going to help me. I also didn't really like the doctor. He was nice, but I just don't think we connected, if that makes sense. I've heard from a few different people that with therapists, it's almost like dating, in that you need to find the right personality match. I'm going to keep looking.

The other day, I walked outside by a garbage bag my employer left outside and immediately had thoughts/"false memories" (I think) of a raccoon being by the garbage bag and biting me on my leg, but just barely enough to go through my jeans (thus no noticeable puncture wounds). Later that day, I dropped my keys on the street and I picked them up quickly and got in the car. I was parked on a busy street, so I was hurrying and not paying attention to my surroundings ar all. It wasn't until I was driving that I noticed my hand bleeding. When I got home and washed the blood off, it looked a bit like a bite mark to me... one very clear puncture looking mark and another smaller one right next to it. Of course, now I'm worried that a bat bit me and because I was rushing to get into the car I didn't notice. I was in an area with lots of trees and lots of leaves on the ground. I mean, the wound definitely hurt, which is why I noticed it while I was driving, so that makes me uneasy because, you know, we all reassure each other, if you get bitten you would know it, but I got this wound without immediately realizing it...

Sometimes, I worry that because of all the times my mind has supposedly "cried wolf" that either I, or family/friends won't take me seriously if I ever do get bitten.

[NervUs]

I definitely am trying to stay away from Dr. Google!! I have just been going through a phase of assuming every time I've been outside that I've been bitten by a bat and have worried myself that it's because I'm traumatized from getting bitten a few weeks ago...

I went and saw a psychiatrist this week. He told me that he does more of medication assessment/management and not therapy. While I know medication can be helpful, I really think CBT is what is truly going to help me. I also didn't really like the doctor. He was nice, but I just don't think we connected, if that makes sense. I've heard from a few different people that with therapists, it's almost like dating, in that you need to find the right personality match. I'm going to keep looking.

The other day, I walked outside by a garbage bag my employer left outside and immediately had thoughts/"false memories" (I think) of a raccoon being by the garbage bag and biting me on my leg, but just barely enough to go through my jeans (thus no noticeable puncture wounds). Later that day, I dropped my keys on the street and I picked them up quickly and got in the car. I was parked on a busy street, so I was hurrying and not paying attention to my surroundings ar all. It wasn't until I was driving that I noticed my hand bleeding. When I got home and washed the blood off, it looked a bit like a bite mark to me... one very clear puncture looking mark and another smaller one right next to it. Of course, now I'm worried that a bat bit me and because I was rushing to get into the car I didn't notice. I was in an area with lots of trees and lots of leaves on the ground. I mean, the wound definitely hurt, which is why I noticed it while I was driving, so that makes me uneasy because, you know, we all reassure each other, if you get bitten you would know it, but I got this wound without immediately realizing it...

Sometimes, I worry that because of all the times my mind has supposedly "cried wolf" that either I, or family/friends won't take me seriously if I ever do get bitten.

I am no expert, but this sounds like OCD to me. If you are thinking you've been exposed to rabies literally just walking outside, those are intrusive thoughts. It sort of seems like a contamination issue to me (I have experienced that with parasite fear, so I am not judging, just observing).

People show up with puncture marks all the time without knowing what caused them. If people had to get rabies shots everytime something like that happened, well, WOW! The fact is, you need to live with uncertainty. You won't know what caused that wound. Could it have been a bat? Yes, there is like a 1 in a billion chance (and, yes, someone actually did the calculation on bat rabies from completely unknown exposure). But, there is no medical recommendation for a shot if you have an unexplained puncture wound which means.....

IT IS NOT A RISK.

If rabid bats were a leading cause of unexplained puncture wounds the recommendations would be totally different than they are. Rabies transmission is actually pretty well studied!

You are backing yourself so far into a corner with these intrusive thoughts until you are going to have no space left for yourself.

I would say, finding the right therapist is a must. You have no more time to play. I would also say, find someone with experience with OCD. For me, I dealt with my fear of parasite contamination with exposure, and it does help to see nothing bad has happened after walking in the area or letting my kids play in the area that I feared was contaminated). I'm not sure how you expose yourself to what you fear, but CBT plus desensitizing yourself to real bats might help you make progress.

Good luck!!!

[Scottyboy]

I am no expert, but this sounds like OCD to me. If you are thinking you've been exposed to rabies literally just walking outside, those are intrusive thoughts. It sort of seems like a contamination issue to me (I have experienced that with parasite fear, so I am not judging, just observing).

People show up with puncture marks all the time without knowing what caused them. If people had to get rabies shots everytime something like that happened, well, WOW! The fact is, you need to live with uncertainty. You won't know what caused that wound. Could it have been a bat? Yes, there is like a 1 in a billion chance (and, yes, someone actually did the calculation on bat rabies from completely unknown exposure). But, there is no medical recommendation for a shot if you have an unexplained puncture wound which means.....

IT IS NOT A RISK.

If rabid bats were a leading cause of unexplained puncture wounds the recommendations would be totally different than they are. Rabies transmission is actually pretty well studied!

You are backing yourself so far into a corner with these intrusive thoughts until you are going to have no space left for yourself.

I would say, finding the right therapist is a must. You have no more time to play. I would also say, find someone with experience with OCD. For me, I dealt with my fear of parasite contamination with exposure, and it does help to see nothing bad has happened after walking in the area or letting my kids play in the area that I feared was contaminated). I'm not sure how you expose yourself to what you fear, but CBT plus desensitizing yourself to real bats might help you make progress.

Good luck!!!

You have OCD and intrusive thoughts. I suffered from similar delusions and got diagnosed with OCD. You have to begin CBT and perhaps ACT and ERP.

I seriously can relate. I have the exact same contamination worries. Nearly identical.

[Panicandpeace]

I am no expert, but this sounds like OCD to me. If you are thinking you've been exposed to rabies literally just walking outside, those are intrusive thoughts. It sort of seems like a contamination issue to me (I have experienced that with parasite fear, so I am not judging, just observing).

People show up with puncture marks all the time without knowing what caused them. If people had to get rabies shots everytime something like that happened, well, WOW! The fact is, you need to live with uncertainty. You won't know what caused that wound. Could it have been a bat? Yes, there is like a 1 in a billion chance (and, yes, someone actually did the calculation on bat rabies from completely unknown exposure). But, there is no medical recommendation for a shot if you have an unexplained puncture wound which means.....

IT IS NOT A RISK.

If rabid bats were a leading cause of unexplained puncture wounds the recommendations would be totally different than they are. Rabies transmission is actually pretty well studied!

You are backing yourself so far into a corner with these intrusive thoughts until you are going to have no space left for yourself.

I would say, finding the right therapist is a must. You have no more time to play. I would also say, find someone with experience with OCD. For me, I dealt with my fear of parasite contamination with exposure, and it does help to see nothing bad has happened after walking in the area or letting my kids play in the area that I feared was contaminated). I'm not sure how you expose yourself to what you fear, but CBT plus desensitizing yourself to real bats might help you make progress.

Good luck!!!

You make excellent points. Excellent/rational points. I don't feel judged at all, I appreciate the input. I think part of the problem with OCD and health anxiety is that it's hard (sometimes nearly impossible) to be reassured. "Living with uncertainty" I've heard before. It's something I'm trying to work on. I'm sure a theme that runs in OCD is a fear of losing control, so uncertainty drives me crazy. I am looking in CBT, I just haven't found a therapist yet. There are actually a couple of OCD clinics where I live, but neither of them are covered by my insurance. I'm searching for other options.

I do think that these are intrusive thoughts. It's a symptom of OCD that I've had for years that has come and gone in waves. Never anything that I felt interfered with my life in any way until recently. But again, that part of my brain that is on high alert, thinks maybe the intrusive thoughts have come from an actual experience a few weeks ago with a bat. If you've read through this post, you'll have seen that I just haven't been able to gain confidence in my memory of what actually happened, as absurd as that sounds. It's terrifying to think that I don't know which memory is real. Not trusting your own memory... I mean, it's been really, truly exhausting and frustrating. And frightening.

I'm going to keep looking into my options for therapy!!

---------- Post added at 22:54 ---------- Previous post was at 22:53 ----------


You have OCD and intrusive thoughts. I suffered from similar delusions and got diagnosed with OCD. You have to begin CBT and perhaps ACT and ERP.

I seriously can relate. I have the exact same contamination worries. Nearly identical.

Definitely looking into my options for CBT!

[Panicandpeace]

Every time I kind of settle down, it's something new... I think the wound has started to look even more like a bat bite as it has scabbed over, which is unsettling. I attached images.

[Panicandpeace]

So, I've calmed down a bit about the "bite" on my hand, but my brain has circled back to the squirrel exposure from several years ago and the bat (is it real or isn't it real?!) from a few weeks ago. Now that it's been a few weeks since the bat incident, I that worry that the memory has now become quite vague in addition to originally being questionable, if that makes sense. Going into cold and flu season, I'm worried that the next time I catch a cold, I'm going to go into a tizzy, or obviously that it will in fact be rabies.

Update on CBT: I called my insurance company, and low and behold, they actually have a "telemental" health service, where I can video conference with a therapist. They gave me phone numbers of a few different therapists, all who specialize in CBT and OCD/anxiety.

Also, yesterday, I stepped on a small plastic bag the had a hole torn out at the bottom. My brain said "There was a needle in there. You stepped on a drug addict's needle, and now you're going to get a disease from it." No puncture marks on the soles of my sneakers. I was able to pretty quickly calm myself down from that one, even though my brain kept saying the WHAT IFS and "needles wouldn't make a noticeable puncture mark..." I think I was able to calm myself down because honestly, I just got preoccupied with rabies again. Does anybody else do this? Switch from one thing to another, like your brain is searching for something to be worried about?

Also, I asked a question about bats/phobias/false memories on Quora and got this answer from a psychotherapist, which has FREAKED me out:

"You pose an interesting question. I’d like to suggest that the symptom you describe is often a compromise a person makes with themselves to manage what I assume in relation to these critters is horror, terror, and dread.

The symptom you describe might be a way for you to not only feel a bit of those feelings which in all probability were the result of something having gone terribly wrong in your earliest years for which you have no language to shape into a coherent memory. Your current fears are likely a reflection of those terrifying feelings from deep in your past for which there is no memory.

Your conscious worry that you have already come into contact with one of these critters is likely an unconscious recognition that the terrifying event(s) have, indeed, already happened.

You would do well with a well-trained therapist(someone who can help you listen for your unconscious) who could not only help you with your current fears but also help you come to terms with a past for which your current fears point.

Good luck to you. What you suffer from is treatable which can help you overcome these very real fears."

Is this psychotherapist saying that I'm having false/intrusive memories about bats because I probably did, at some point, come into contact with one?? This is literally my EXACT fear. That the memories are a result of a traumatic experience aka the bat bite...

[Scottyboy]

So, I've calmed down a bit about the "bite" on my hand, but my brain has circled back to the squirrel exposure from several years ago and the bat (is it real or isn't it real?!) from a few weeks ago. Now that it's been a few weeks since the bat incident, I that worry that the memory has now become quite vague in addition to originally being questionable, if that makes sense. Going into cold and flu season, I'm worried that the next time I catch a cold, I'm going to go into a tizzy, or obviously that it will in fact be rabies.

Update on CBT: I called my insurance company, and low and behold, they actually have a "telemental" health service, where I can video conference with a therapist. They gave me phone numbers of a few different therapists, all who specialize in CBT and OCD/anxiety.

Also, yesterday, I stepped on a small plastic bag the had a hole torn out at the bottom. My brain said "There was a needle in there. You stepped on a drug addict's needle, and now you're going to get a disease from it." No puncture marks on the soles of my sneakers. I was able to pretty quickly calm myself down from that one, even though my brain kept saying the WHAT IFS and "needles wouldn't make a noticeable puncture mark..." I think I was able to calm myself down because honestly, I just got preoccupied with rabies again. Does anybody else do this? Switch from one thing to another, like your brain is searching for something to be worried about?

Also, I asked a question about bats/phobias/false memories on Quora and got this answer from a psychotherapist, which has FREAKED me out:

"You pose an interesting question. I’d like to suggest that the symptom you describe is often a compromise a person makes with themselves to manage what I assume in relation to these critters is horror, terror, and dread.

The symptom you describe might be a way for you to not only feel a bit of those feelings which in all probability were the result of something having gone terribly wrong in your earliest years for which you have no language to shape into a coherent memory. Your current fears are likely a reflection of those terrifying feelings from deep in your past for which there is no memory.

Your conscious worry that you have already come into contact with one of these critters is likely an unconscious recognition that the terrifying event(s) have, indeed, already happened.

You would do well with a well-trained therapist(someone who can help you listen for your unconscious) who could not only help you with your current fears but also help you come to terms with a past for which your current fears point.

Good luck to you. What you suffer from is treatable which can help you overcome these very real fears."

Is this psychotherapist saying that I'm having false/intrusive memories about bats because I probably did, at some point, come into contact with one?? This is literally my EXACT fear. That the memories are a result of a traumatic experience aka the bat bite...

Hi

I am by no means a professional or a doctor but I can relate to you because I go through this daily. Your mind jumps from one worry to another and doubts whether something happened or not. This is called intrusive thinking. The fear transforms and morphs daily. One fear constantly supplants another.

What you are describing seems to be indicative of OCD and intrusive thinking. You take your thoughts way too seriously and you are imagining all sorts of scenarios that you take very seriously. OCD is often called the doubting disease and it sounds like you suffer from a lot of doubt (did I step on a needle etc). I suffer from similar imagined scenarios. A lot of people do but they just don’t take their thoughts so seriously.

CBT would work this way:

Antecedent (triggering event): step on a bag

Belief (these are automatic): I stepped on a needle. Did I step on a needle? The world is a dangerous play. If I step on a needle I’ll become contaminated and I’ll lose everything.

Consequence: anxiety worry and most importantly reassurance seeking (which you seem to be doing a lot of since you post here often).

You need to break the cycle. CBT can help and so can mindfulness. A great podcast that I found helpful is OCD Stories.

Anyways, best of luck. I hope this helps. I am having similar challenges and this approach has provided some improvement with me so far.

[Panicandpeace]

Hi

I am by no means a professional or a doctor but I can relate to you because I go through this daily. Your mind jumps from one worry to another and doubts whether something happened or not. This is called intrusive thinking. The fear transforms and morphs daily. One fear constantly supplants another.

What you are describing seems to be indicative of OCD and intrusive thinking. You take your thoughts way too seriously and you are imagining all sorts of scenarios that you take very seriously. OCD is often called the doubting disease and it sounds like you suffer from a lot of doubt (did I step on a needle etc). I suffer from similar imagined scenarios. A lot of people do but they just don’t take their thoughts so seriously.

CBT would work this way:

Antecedent (triggering event): step on a bag

Belief (these are automatic): I stepped on a needle. Did I step on a needle? The world is a dangerous play. If I step on a needle I’ll become contaminated and I’ll lose everything.

Consequence: anxiety worry and most importantly reassurance seeking (which you seem to be doing a lot of since you post here often).

You need to break the cycle. CBT can help and so can mindfulness. A great podcast that I found helpful is OCD Stories.

Anyways, best of luck. I hope this helps. I am having similar challenges and this approach has provided some improvement with me so far.


I agree, I need to break the cycle... I know reassurance doesn't go far in people with OCD. However, I struggle with not knowing if the OCD triggered the bat scenario in my mind or if the bat scenario was real and has triggered the anxiety because I repressed the memory. I know it's so often said, to live with OCD you have to accept uncertainty, but I just can't help but feel that uncertainty in this case, is life or death. It doesn't help that I tend to be very intuitive, sometimes just freaky, psychic haha. So, while yeah, it would be a crazy coincidence, if after being so preoccupied with the squirrel/rabies incident from several years ago, I got bitten by a bat a few weeks later, but I do feel like I kind of predict a lot of things in life...

Also, while I've had a few OCD tendencies in the past, it's never been full blown, and again, I wonder if maybe I've been traumatized by the bat, and that is, in fact, what set everything off. Because, I'm like, well, why on earth would you be so preoccupied with this otherwise?!

Also, today, my tongue is tingly and my glands are feeling a kind of burning, not painful, just odd, sensation. Of course, I'm thinking, okay, this is it... it's been a month. It's starting. What you're feeling is the virus invading your salivary glands.

[Panicandpeace]

Oh my goodness. Why?! Every time I calm down a little, it's something else... So this morning, as I got out of my car, a bird *I think* flew right by me. Right in front of me, from one tree into another tree/bush area. I think it was a bird, but of course, now I'm thinking, maybe it was a bat. It could've also been a bat. Maybe it bit me. I had a jacket and turtleneck on, jeans and boots, so essentially I was covered from head to toe, except my hands and my head. I'm worrying that it bit me on my scalp or ear and hand without me knowing it. Unlikely yes, but am I worried, yes... I just can't catch a break.

This is just even more worrisome than the other incidents because I actually saw something fly past/near me. And I'm sure we've all read the many number of articles that say a bat's teeth are so small, it could bite you without you knowing/feeling it.

[Scottyboy]

Oh my goodness. Why?! Every time I calm down a little, it's something else... So this morning, as I got out of my car, a bird *I think* flew right by me. Right in front of me, from one tree into another tree/bush area. I think it was a bird, but of course, now I'm thinking, maybe it was a bat. It could've also been a bat. Maybe it bit me. I had a jacket and turtleneck on, jeans and boots, so essentially I was covered from head to toe, except my hands and my head. I'm worrying that it bit me on my scalp or ear and hand without me knowing it. Unlikely yes, but am I worried, yes... I just can't catch a break.

This is just even more worrisome than the other incidents because I actually saw something fly past/near me. And I'm sure we've all read the many number of articles that say a bat's teeth are so small, it could bite you without you knowing/feeling it.

Watch this video:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ufqFO5B1vQY

Does this what it sounds like in your head? Based on your post history, I would imagine it does. That’s how my internal ramblings sound. OCD morphs, it is an incessant monster that attacks you. It loves to ruminate. Mental ruminations are a form of ritual. Trying to deconstruct an event and assess and evaluate the what if’s is OCD too. Your posts seem to be doing that.

It thrives on uncertainty. Even the 0.0000000001% it will take advantage of. It’s what your brain demands because once it finds reassurance you’ll get that little jolt of relaxation and certainly. It’s kind of an addiction.

Try checking out the book “you are not a rock” or any of the OCD workbooks online. Also the “man who couldn’t stop” is a good read too.

[Panicandpeace]

Watch this video:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ufqFO5B1vQY

Does this what it sounds like in your head? Based on your post history, I would imagine it does. That’s how my internal ramblings sound. OCD morphs, it is an incessant monster that attacks you. It loves to ruminate. Mental ruminations are a form of ritual. Trying to deconstruct an event and assess and evaluate the what if’s is OCD too. Your posts seem to be doing that.

It thrives on uncertainty. Even the 0.0000000001% it will take advantage of. It’s what your brain demands because once it finds reassurance you’ll get that little jolt of relaxation and certainly. It’s kind of an addiction.

Try checking out the book “you are not a rock” or any of the OCD workbooks online. Also the “man who couldn’t stop” is a good read too.

This video is a pretty accurate representation of how my mind is currently working. I wouldn't say it's always been like this though, at least not until recently. Definitely have the mental ruminations. I do try and deconstruct the events... like this morning: "something flew past me. It was a bird. It didn't touch me. Are you sure it was a bird? It could have been a bat... Are you sure it didn't touch you? It could have touched you, even bitten you, and you wouldn't necessarily have known. Should I go get the shots just in case? You aren't sure if it was a bat or a bird. Is that something you want to take a chance on?"

Certainly the uncertainty is awful, but my mind keeps saying, "okay, yeah, live with uncertainty, blah blah blah, but NOT uncertainty about rabies. You don't know if it was a bat or a bird. You don't want to be uncertain about that."

And, again, it's just that I don't know if this bout of anxiety and OCD was caused by a real life interaction with a bat, or if it was the OCD that conjured up the image and then the obsession...

And I certainly don't want my brain to be the little boy who cried wolf, and then when something actually happens, me just write it off... like in today's case, I don't want to just dismiss it as a bird if this time around it was a bat.

[Scottyboy]

This video is a pretty accurate representation of how my mind is currently working. I wouldn't say it's always been like this though, at least not until recently. Definitely have the mental ruminations. I do try and deconstruct the events... like this morning: "something flew past me. It was a bird. It didn't touch me. Are you sure it was a bird? It could have been a bat... Are you sure it didn't touch you? It could have touched you, even bitten you, and you wouldn't necessarily have known. Should I go get the shots just in case? You aren't sure if it was a bat or a bird. Is that something you want to take a chance on?"

Certainly the uncertainty is awful, but my mind keeps saying, "okay, yeah, live with uncertainty, blah blah blah, but NOT uncertainty about rabies. You don't know if it was a bat or a bird. You don't want to be uncertain about that."

And, again, it's just that I don't know if this bout of anxiety and OCD was caused by a real life interaction with a bat, or if it was the OCD that conjured up the image and then the obsession...

And I certainly don't want my brain to be the little boy who cried wolf, and then when something actually happens, me just write it off... like in today's case, I don't want to just dismiss it as a bird if this time around it was a bat.

The genesis is irrelevant. Where it came from is as well. OCD is the doubting disease - you keep feeding it by engaging in “trying to figure things out” and to control and establish certainty. I personally am challenged with an identical situation nearly. I have those intrusive thoughts all the time. Sometimes they ruin my day sometimes they don’t. They’re going to keep coming up. You have to accept that and then focus your energies on something important. Something you value. You seem like an intelligent person because you’ve managed to create a fantasy in your head step by step of how you could have been contaminated (which is btw one form of OCD - fear of contamination by animals). Surely you could put that mental energy towards something more productive.

[Panicandpeace]

The genesis is irrelevant. Where it came from is as well. OCD is the doubting disease - you keep feeding it by engaging in “trying to figure things out” and to control and establish certainty. I personally am challenged with an identical situation nearly. I have those intrusive thoughts all the time. Sometimes they ruin my day sometimes they don’t. They’re going to keep coming up. You have to accept that and then focus your energies on something important. Something you value. You seem like an intelligent person because you’ve managed to create a fantasy in your head step by step of how you could have been contaminated (which is btw one form of OCD - fear of contamination by animals). Surely you could put that mental energy towards something more productive.

OCD is the doubting disease - you keep feeding it by engaging in “trying to figure things out” and to control and establish certainty.<--absolutely

you’ve managed to create a fantasy in your head step by step of how you could have been contaminated <---just worried it isn't a fantasy

I guess, I think the genesis is important because if the memory is real, I would need to go and get the shots, and that is what I keep circling around to. I can live with the intrusive thoughts, and learn how to cope with them, and want to learn how to cope with them, but I can't just not get the vaccine if indeed, I did get bitten. Believe me, I would love to focus my energy somewhere else, and am actually getting ready to start a couple of online classes, which should accomplish just that. I also had my first therapy session with a psychologist yesterday and set up weekly appointments to start CBT which I'm really thrilled about. She was very nice, and I'm hoping we're going to be a good fit! I already like her better than the psychiatrist I saw. Again, I want to move on, but I also want to be sure that I'm not just repressing an important event (getting bitten) in order to do so.

Also, I woke up this morning feeling pretty calm. I had talked myself down from yesterday, telling myself, "okay, worst case scenario, even if it was a bat that flew past you at 8am yesterday morning, it didn't even touch you. But it was a bird. There are so many birds around this house. It glided right past you into another tree/bush. Bats don't glide, birds glide." Then, into my head pops a vivid memory of whatever it was yesterday morning, flying directly into my head, fluttering around in my hair, and me swatting it away. Brain says, "It was a bat and it fluttered around in your hair, bit you on the scalp, and flew away." Now, I don't want to be the girl who cried wolf, and my fears not be taken seriously, although I'm sure I've already earned that title... but now I'm worried that I've remembered important details from yesterday.

[Scottyboy]

OCD is the doubting disease - you keep feeding it by engaging in “trying to figure things out” and to control and establish certainty.<--absolutely

you’ve managed to create a fantasy in your head step by step of how you could have been contaminated <---just worried it isn't a fantasy

I guess, I think the genesis is important because if the memory is real, I would need to go and get the shots, and that is what I keep circling around to. I can live with the intrusive thoughts, and learn how to cope with them, and want to learn how to cope with them, but I can't just not get the vaccine if indeed, I did get bitten. Believe me, I would love to focus my energy somewhere else, and am actually getting ready to start a couple of online classes, which should accomplish just that. I also had my first therapy session with a psychologist yesterday and set up weekly appointments to start CBT which I'm really thrilled about. She was very nice, and I'm hoping we're going to be a good fit! I already like her better than the psychiatrist I saw. Again, I want to move on, but I also want to be sure that I'm not just repressing an important event (getting bitten) in order to do so.

Also, I woke up this morning feeling pretty calm. I had talked myself down from yesterday, telling myself, "okay, worst case scenario, even if it was a bat that flew past you at 8am yesterday morning, it didn't even touch you. But it was a bird. There are so many birds around this house. It glided right past you into another tree/bush. Bats don't glide, birds glide." Then, into my head pops a vivid memory of whatever it was yesterday morning, flying directly into my head, fluttering around in my hair, and me swatting it away. Brain says, "It was a bat and it fluttered around in your hair, bit you on the scalp, and flew away." Now, I don't want to be the girl who cried wolf, and my fears not be taken seriously, although I'm sure I've already earned that title... but now I'm worried that I've remembered important details from yesterday.

You would know if a bat flew in your hair.

[Fishmanpa]

Are you getting any real life help with this? I ask because your thoughts are so fantastical in nature that its concerning. Respectfully, what you describe is just not realistic nor fact based. It's also concerning because they might cross over into other parts of your life and affect you negatively there too :(

Positive thoughts

[Panicandpeace]

Are you getting any real life help with this? I ask because your thoughts are so fantastical in nature that its concerning. Respectfully, what you describe is just not realistic nor fact based. It's also concerning because they might cross over into other parts of your life and affect you negatively there too :(

Positive thoughts

your thoughts are so fantastical in nature that its concerning

They definitely concern me too, but more so because I don't trust which memories are real anymore... this hasn't ever been a problem until very recently.

what you describe is just not realistic nor fact based

I think part of it is also that I've always tended to be quite intuitive, and almost scary psychic at times... so that sort of thinking doesn't help because I'm like, yeah, so you probably didn't get rabies from that squirrel 7 years ago, but you're going to get in some other way or you've gotten it some other way... Then we have the phobia of bats... Then we have the bat on the sidewalk, the bat flying into my hair, etc... I can't shake the feeling that I've come into contact with a bat. Today, I almost emailed a vet I used to take my boss's dog to, when I lived in another state for a few years, because while I was there one day, I was petting one of her cats (she ran her office out of her house) and it kind of scratched/bit me. I remember right before that, she had asked if I was a cat person, because that cat was usually weary of strangers, but it had come up to me being very friendly... naturally, I now think there was something wrong with the cat. The house was in a very woodsy area. I'd seen just about every wild animal you could think of while living there. I know that's ridiculous.

Are you getting any real life help with this?

I am starting CBT with a psychologist. I had my first appointment this past week, which was really just her getting a lot of intake information, but we've set up weekly appointments. I'm hopeful about this. I've also ordered a few books/workbooks that I've seen mentioned on here and elsewhere. I have to have surgery in a month (if I haven't died of rabies by then...), and I really want to get this at least somewhat under control before then.

[Panicandpeace]

You would know if a bat flew in your hair.

You would think...It's like the bat on the sidewalk. I can see it happening in my mind, and I can replay the incident. It seems/feels real. So is that what happened? And it's just wishful thinking that it was a bird that flew past me? The only part of my body that was exposed was my head and hands (cold day), so of course, there is a spot on my scalp that hurts.

I can also see the same scenario in which whatever it was, just flew right past me. So, now my brain is saying, which memory is real? If you pick the wrong memory, you're a goner. Believe me, it's infuriating and frustrating, and obviously anxiety inducing.

[Panicandpeace]

So today, as I was changing, I noticed two small pin prick marks on my hip, about 2-3mm apart. A little redness around the marks. I mean, it's pretty random. I have pretty clear skin, and there's no other redness anywhere else. I'm worried this is a bat bite mark that I overlooked/didn't notice on Friday when whatever it was flew in front of me. I'm worried because I was wearing a thin sweater, so maybe I got bitten superficially through the sweater, but not enough to feel anything. I mean, there are so many sources that say you can get bitten by a bat and not know it because their teeth are so small and sharp... I might call the health department tomorrow and see what they think. The thing is, this time I did see something fly past me.

Photos attached for reference

[NervUs]

You can't a shot everytime something flies near you.

[Panicandpeace]

You can't a shot every time something flies near you.

I totally agree... and I wouldn't be tempted to get a shot every time something flies by me if I got the vaccine. I called the health department. The doctor there was less reassuring (surprise surprise...nothing can reassure us, can it?) than I'd hoped. He said that while it didn't sound like anything had bitten me if it just flew past, it was a bit weird that I had marks like that on my skin, and recommended seeing my PCP to get assessed. He then gave me his name and direct number so that my doctor could call him. My doctor has no availability today...

Also talked to my therapist today. It's helpful to have someone to talk to about it, but I mean, this was only my second session, so it's not like I'm feeling particularly less anxious yet.

I'm just so upset because, I was calming down, and then these damn marks presented themselves. If it were three marks, 6 marks, any other number, I'd be fine. It just looks like a perfect little bat bite.

---------- Post added at 13:00 ---------- Previous post was at 12:20 ----------

Update: I did a teledoc phone call, and sent in the photo of the bite, and the doctor I spoke with said, he didn't think it was any cause for concern.

[NervUs]

Outsiders Perspective- you are working really hard to substantiate that a bat bit you, even though you KNOW your brain concocts stories about bats from simply walking outside the door.

You need to get yourself to a point that seeing two marks on the skin does not cause you to phone the health department and teledocs and make appointments with real docs. Most people do not make doctors appointments because of completely trivial marks. And, in all honesty, a doctor can NOT tell you what caused a mark like that. It's not possible. You have to find a way to live with not knowing. Ideally, you would get to a point of seeing a mark and not thinking bat. In the story, you mentioned the BIRD flew by your head so why is it now a bat that bit your hip? Nothing adds up and you need to find a way of looking inward to come to your answer rather than trying to find an authority figure who can do it for you. My two cents.

[Panicandpeace]

Outsiders Perspective- you are working really hard to substantiate that a bat bit you, even though you KNOW your brain concocts stories about bats from simply walking outside the door.

You need to get yourself to a point that seeing two marks on the skin does not cause you to phone the health department and teledocs and make appointments with real docs. Most people do not make doctors appointments because of completely trivial marks. And, in all honesty, a doctor can NOT tell you what caused a mark like that. It's not possible. You have to find a way to live with not knowing. Ideally, you would get to a point of seeing a mark and not thinking bat. In the story, you mentioned the BIRD flew by your head so why is it now a bat that bit your hip? Nothing adds up and you need to find a way of looking inward to come to your answer rather than trying to find an authority figure who can do it for you. My two cents.

you are working really hard to substantiate that a bat bit you, even though you KNOW your brain concocts stories about bats from simply walking outside the door.
I don't disagree with you at all. You basically said what my therapist said, which is that, you have this phobia of bats/rabies so your mind is primed to that, and that then leads to your mind filling in the blanks... and always filling in those blanks with situations with bats, but deep down you know that you haven't seen a bat. I am working on believing that, and I know that's going to take some work. It was just unfortunate timing that something flew so closely to me, an again quite unfortunate to have mark on my body shortly thereafter. I know my mind is searching and reaching, but it doesn't have to reach far when things like that happen and push me right back over the edge.

Most people do not make doctors appointments because of completely trivial marks. And, in all honesty, a doctor can NOT tell you what caused a mark like that. It's not possible. You have to find a way to live with not knowing. Ideally, you would get to a point of seeing a mark and not thinking bat.
Yes, I'd love to get to this place, and was obviously in this place not that long ago. I just called because if there was any concern, they'd tell me. Which is what the health department did, and why I scheduled a teledoc appointment. Since he looked at the photos, and I explained the situation and didn't seem concerned, I'm trying to accept that and move on. And yes, I'd love to not see a mark and think "bat bite," but again, it was the timing of the marks (and the fact that there are 2) and the fly by on Friday.

In the story, you mentioned the BIRD flew by your head so why is it now a bat that bit your hip?
To clarify, I said whatever it was flew in front of me or past me, but the "filling in the blanks" memory was giving me an image of a bat in the hair. So when I saw the marks, I thought, okay with the first memory of it flying more in front of you, that trajectory was more in line with that area of your hip, and deep down you know that is the real memory (the thing flying in front of me), not the bat in your hair. That's why I started to panic. Again, I didn't think anything touched me at the time. I know there are articles saying you might not feel a bat bite, but surely, if you're wide awake and one hits you in the hip, you'd at least feel it flapping. Not to mention, don't bats have to catch some air under their wings to start flying, so if they flew into something and landed, wouldn't they have to significantly take off again? And I think to myself, why would you notice a mark two days later? A two day old mark wouldn't be that red/irritated. You've pinched yourself or something. Anyway, these are the rational thoughts I've tried to calm myself down with.

I'm really trying. I am.

[NervUs]

I know you are trying. Intrusive thoughts are really hard to fight. I went through this with bats, after finding a dead one in the house, and for awhile I thought I saw them everywhere. It is very hard, but you have to remind yourself you are unwell when these thoughts flood. And NOT go to the doctor. I know it feels like a real risk to your life, which is what makes it so hard....but unfortunately, this is the cross we have to bear.

[Panicandpeace]

I know you are trying. Intrusive thoughts are really hard to fight. I went through this with bats, after finding a dead one in the house, and for awhile I thought I saw them everywhere. It is very hard, but you have to remind yourself you are unwell when these thoughts flood. And NOT go to the doctor. I know it feels like a real risk to your life, which is what makes it so hard....but unfortunately, this is the cross we have to bear.

NervUs, thanks for your supportive words. At least you had a true reason to be so fearful of bats. Did you get PEP after finding the dead bat? How did you get over "seeing bats everywhere"? I'm constantly looking around. When I see birds fly, I say to myself, okay those are birds... so many birds in my neighborhood... you'd think that would be reassuring, like, look at all these birds. You've never seen bats, but you see birds all the time. I've been doing better the past couple of days. I bought a couple of workbooks, and as somebody on here suggested: You Are Not a Rock and The Man Who Couldn't Stop. I've also tried to accept the answers the doctor and my therapist gave me... of course, with OCD being the doubting disease, I still have the occasional inner monologue, "Geez that doctor seemed overly confident in his assurance that that mark was not a bat bite... He did seem to know a lot about bat bites, but there doesn't seem to be a consensus on what a bat bite looks like. He said the marks looked too close together and that it seemed to look like more of a pinch to the skin than anything else... but should I have gone to another doctor, just to have a second opinion? It was a teledoc appointment, so he didn't see the mark in person. Was the photo you sent good enough for him to judge?... Okay. Stop. You did what the doctor at the health department told you to do. You had a doctor look at the mark. You told him what you were worried about. He assured you, you're fine." BUT I am trying to just let those thoughts pass. I keep reminding myself that I would have to be the unluckiest person in the world for a bat to somehow fly down, bite me through my shirt, and fly away again without me noticing at all. I'm sure they can be stealthy, but that stealthy? My therapist said, "It's hard to unlearn something. So even when you've stopped the Googling, you've still got a lot in your brain from previous Googling." Which is so true. Wouldn't it be so easy to trust that doctor, if I hadn't already read several accounts of people barely getting brushed by a bat and seeing pinprick marks that prompted them to get the vaccine?

I also just registered for some online school classes. I was worried to do it for a long time because, I was worried I wouldn't be able to focus my energy properly because my mind was so absorbed in this fear. My therapist thought it would be a great idea to shift my focus. I think the psychiatrist I saw put it really well when he explained that often times ADD and OCD go hand in hand, and while it may not be that a person with OCD can't pay attention, like what you classically think of with ADD, it's that they can't shift their attention. That was a big lightbulb moment. When I get absorbed in something it can be very hard for me to shift my attention. Obviously haha. I'm trying. I'm going to keep trying, trying, trying. I've had a stiff neck the past few days, which really never happens to me, but I just keep telling myself, "You're hyperaware of your body right now. Thinking about the stiff neck is just making your neck more stiff. This is anxiety."

I also have surgery soon. I know that this fear is probably a way to distract me from that in a way. Now I've been thinking about that a lot... Anybody else with intrusive thoughts terrified to go under anesthesia because of what they might say?! That's my latest worry.

[Scottyboy]

NervUs, thanks for your supportive words. At least you had a true reason to be so fearful of bats. Did you get PEP after finding the dead bat? How did you get over "seeing bats everywhere"? I'm constantly looking around. When I see birds fly, I say to myself, okay those are birds... so many birds in my neighborhood... you'd think that would be reassuring, like, look at all these birds. You've never seen bats, but you see birds all the time. I've been doing better the past couple of days. I bought a couple of workbooks, and as somebody on here suggested: You Are Not a Rock and The Man Who Couldn't Stop. I've also tried to accept the answers the doctor and my therapist gave me... of course, with OCD being the doubting disease, I still have the occasional inner monologue, "Geez that doctor seemed overly confident in his assurance that that mark was not a bat bite... He did seem to know a lot about bat bites, but there doesn't seem to be a consensus on what a bat bite looks like. He said the marks looked too close together and that it seemed to look like more of a pinch to the skin than anything else... but should I have gone to another doctor, just to have a second opinion? It was a teledoc appointment, so he didn't see the mark in person. Was the photo you sent good enough for him to judge?... Okay. Stop. You did what the doctor at the health department told you to do. You had a doctor look at the mark. You told him what you were worried about. He assured you, you're fine." BUT I am trying to just let those thoughts pass. I keep reminding myself that I would have to be the unluckiest person in the world for a bat to somehow fly down, bite me through my shirt, and fly away again without me noticing at all. I'm sure they can be stealthy, but that stealthy? My therapist said, "It's hard to unlearn something. So even when you've stopped the Googling, you've still got a lot in your brain from previous Googling." Which is so true. Wouldn't it be so easy to trust that doctor, if I hadn't already read several accounts of people barely getting brushed by a bat and seeing pinprick marks that prompted them to get the vaccine?

I also just registered for some online school classes. I was worried to do it for a long time because, I was worried I wouldn't be able to focus my energy properly because my mind was so absorbed in this fear. My therapist thought it would be a great idea to shift my focus. I think the psychiatrist I saw put it really well when he explained that often times ADD and OCD go hand in hand, and while it may not be that a person with OCD can't pay attention, like what you classically think of with ADD, it's that they can't shift their attention. That was a big lightbulb moment. When I get absorbed in something it can be very hard for me to shift my attention. Obviously haha. I'm trying. I'm going to keep trying, trying, trying. I've had a stiff neck the past few days, which really never happens to me, but I just keep telling myself, "You're hyperaware of your body right now. Thinking about the stiff neck is just making your neck more stiff. This is anxiety."

I also have surgery soon. I know that this fear is probably a way to distract me from that in a way. Now I've been thinking about that a lot... Anybody else with intrusive thoughts terrified to go under anesthesia because of what they might say?! That's my latest worry.

It's obviously good to challenge the thoughts but don't get too far down the rabbit hole of rumination - the mental gymnastics can be a form of ritual as well that only strengthens those connections in your brain!

[NervUs]

It's obviously good to challenge the thoughts but don't get too far down the rabbit hole of rumination - the mental gymnastics can be a form of ritual as well that only strengthens those connections in your brain!

Great insight, Scotty!

---------- Post added at 10:23 ---------- Previous post was at 09:47 ----------


NervUs, thanks for your supportive words. At least you had a true reason to be so fearful of bats. Did you get PEP after finding the dead bat? How did you get over "seeing bats everywhere"? I'm constantly looking around. When I see birds fly, I say to myself, okay those are birds... so many birds in my neighborhood... you'd think that would be reassuring, like, look at all these birds. You've never seen bats, but you see birds all the time. I've been doing better the past couple of days. I bought a couple of workbooks, and as somebody on here suggested: You Are Not a Rock and The Man Who Couldn't Stop. I've also tried to accept the answers the doctor and my therapist gave me... of course, with OCD being the doubting disease, I still have the occasional inner monologue, "Geez that doctor seemed overly confident in his assurance that that mark was not a bat bite... He did seem to know a lot about bat bites, but there doesn't seem to be a consensus on what a bat bite looks like. He said the marks looked too close together and that it seemed to look like more of a pinch to the skin than anything else... but should I have gone to another doctor, just to have a second opinion? It was a teledoc appointment, so he didn't see the mark in person. Was the photo you sent good enough for him to judge?... Okay. Stop. You did what the doctor at the health department told you to do. You had a doctor look at the mark. You told him what you were worried about. He assured you, you're fine." BUT I am trying to just let those thoughts pass. I keep reminding myself that I would have to be the unluckiest person in the world for a bat to somehow fly down, bite me through my shirt, and fly away again without me noticing at all. I'm sure they can be stealthy, but that stealthy? My therapist said, "It's hard to unlearn something. So even when you've stopped the Googling, you've still got a lot in your brain from previous Googling." Which is so true. Wouldn't it be so easy to trust that doctor, if I hadn't already read several accounts of people barely getting brushed by a bat and seeing pinprick marks that prompted them to get the vaccine?

I also just registered for some online school classes. I was worried to do it for a long time because, I was worried I wouldn't be able to focus my energy properly because my mind was so absorbed in this fear. My therapist thought it would be a great idea to shift my focus. I think the psychiatrist I saw put it really well when he explained that often times ADD and OCD go hand in hand, and while it may not be that a person with OCD can't pay attention, like what you classically think of with ADD, it's that they can't shift their attention. That was a big lightbulb moment. When I get absorbed in something it can be very hard for me to shift my attention. Obviously haha. I'm trying. I'm going to keep trying, trying, trying. I've had a stiff neck the past few days, which really never happens to me, but I just keep telling myself, "You're hyperaware of your body right now. Thinking about the stiff neck is just making your neck more stiff. This is anxiety."

I also have surgery soon. I know that this fear is probably a way to distract me from that in a way. Now I've been thinking about that a lot... Anybody else with intrusive thoughts terrified to go under anesthesia because of what they might say?! That's my latest worry.

Medical procedures are definitely hard when you have HA. You will get through it.

Interesting about OCD being like ADHD. It is DEFINITELY hard to shift your thoughts when you have OCD. I experience that, as well as the hyperawareness of myself and my body. I think part of the struggle is teaching yourself not to react when your mind is screaming for you to react (as in obsess and panic) to something like a kink in the neck or a headache. One thing you can do is immediately substitute a thought for a panic thought, just do whatever you can- when your brain says your neck hurts- to adjust to thinking about something different, ideally something creative. I find that having a long term project that requires planning and thinking through can compete with health worry, esp if it engages you. Are you in college? Even thinking about papers you have to write or books you are reading can do the same.

My bat situation was a bit of a strange one in that the bat had been dead for some time once I found it so we could not have it tested. I am going to spare you all the terrible details, but we ended up giving my daughter the RPEP (the bat had been in her room), but my two sons, my husband, and I did not take the PEP. My daughter, husband, and I fell under the CDC guidelines as we all sleep in the room. My husband and I decided against doing it because the cost is astronomical (we paid about $5K out of pocket for our daughter, and it would have cost more out of pocket for us) and we figured we most likely would have woken up. I read every case study I could find about bat rabies, and most of the victims actually DID wake up. The only known case of someone sleeping through a bat encounter was a 4 year old girl (my daughter was 4 when I found the carcass). Plus, it had been a long time (as I said, the bat had to have been there at least 6 months. I was emailing everyone in town, including a forensic anthropologist and the former head of the rabies program at the CDC. They both felt like the true period of risk had passed already, given the state of the carcass.

I can also say, I have seen a bat skull very up close and personal. In fact, I still have the skull in a box out in my flowerbox because I don't want that nasty thing in my house, lol, but I can't bring myself to dispose of it. Anyway, you would be amazed at how small these things area. The teeth are tiny, so tiny I am not convinced they could even penetrate through a sweater. Even though I don't believe there was a bat involved in this incident you are fearing, even if it was a bat, clothing would be like armor to these teeth. They are really really tiny.

How did I stop seeing bats everywhere? I am not entirely sure. I know, for a while, I was checking my house for bats nightly, since one had gotten into my house undetected. It is actually impossible to do that because they are small and, as I learned, can wind up anywhere, and the typical house has so much material in it that I think I finally just accepted that we are part of nature and, if this happens to us, we will have no choice but to accept it. I stopped checking and, now, I don't see or think much about bats. I said "much" because they do still cross my mind at times. But, the thought is fleeting and doesn't consume me like it used to. Finding that bat (I was actually a rabies worrier BEFORE this incident, given that we had a bunch of raccoons all up in our grill for a little while) was the BIGGEST FREAKOUT I have ever experienced in my 6 year career as a hypochondriac. I was too afraid even to write about it in an anxiety forum, I was so convinced my daughter was going to die, or one of my sons since I didn't know where the bat had been, or even myself or husband. But, I think knowing that a lot of time had passed since the bat would have been alive in the house-- and also seeing that each time we got sick was actually NOT rabies-- let me get the emotional distance I needed to come to acceptance that there is a small risk in life of being taken out by "nature" and that is just the way it is. I don't know if that comforts you at all, but I guess I found comfort in it somehow.

[Panicandpeace]

I did really well over the past weekend! I will admit, I've been worrying about my upcoming surgery so that's been a distraction... a worry to replace another worry. Not the best, but it was nice to not worry about rabies for a few days. Then, this morning, what I think was a leaf fluttered down in front of me. I think fall (autumn) and all of the leaves on the ground has been particularly hard for me because my brain just thinks they look like bats/you could easily miss a bat among the leaves. So, anyway, I stopped, paused to "check" which I know isn't helpful and probably makes everything worse even though I think it's going to be reassuring, didn't think I saw a bat. However, after I'd left the house, my brain kept saying, "Are you sure it wasn't a bat?" And of course, my answer is always, "Well, I thought so but now I'm not sure." It's just so frustrating because I really don't want to be the girl who cried bat so many times that if I actually ever encounter a bat, I brush it off and say, no it was a leaf... It's hard not trusting yourself. I know that probably sounds stupid. I'm trying not to get worked up like I did about the marks. I'm trying to reassure myself, but not overly so. It's cold and sprinkling outside. I'm like okay, bats are hibernating and bats don't like rain and it's daytime. BOOM. You'd think that would do the trick.

---------- Post added at 11:00 ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 ----------


Great insight, Scotty!

---------- Post added at 10:23 ---------- Previous post was at 09:47 ----------



Medical procedures are definitely hard when you have HA. You will get through it.

Interesting about OCD being like ADHD. It is DEFINITELY hard to shift your thoughts when you have OCD. I experience that, as well as the hyperawareness of myself and my body. I think part of the struggle is teaching yourself not to react when your mind is screaming for you to react (as in obsess and panic) to something like a kink in the neck or a headache. One thing you can do is immediately substitute a thought for a panic thought, just do whatever you can- when your brain says your neck hurts- to adjust to thinking about something different, ideally something creative. I find that having a long term project that requires planning and thinking through can compete with health worry, esp if it engages you. Are you in college? Even thinking about papers you have to write or books you are reading can do the same.

My bat situation was a bit of a strange one in that the bat had been dead for some time once I found it so we could not have it tested. I am going to spare you all the terrible details, but we ended up giving my daughter the RPEP (the bat had been in her room), but my two sons, my husband, and I did not take the PEP. My daughter, husband, and I fell under the CDC guidelines as we all sleep in the room. My husband and I decided against doing it because the cost is astronomical (we paid about $5K out of pocket for our daughter, and it would have cost more out of pocket for us) and we figured we most likely would have woken up. I read every case study I could find about bat rabies, and most of the victims actually DID wake up. The only known case of someone sleeping through a bat encounter was a 4 year old girl (my daughter was 4 when I found the carcass). Plus, it had been a long time (as I said, the bat had to have been there at least 6 months. I was emailing everyone in town, including a forensic anthropologist and the former head of the rabies program at the CDC. They both felt like the true period of risk had passed already, given the state of the carcass.

I can also say, I have seen a bat skull very up close and personal. In fact, I still have the skull in a box out in my flowerbox because I don't want that nasty thing in my house, lol, but I can't bring myself to dispose of it. Anyway, you would be amazed at how small these things area. The teeth are tiny, so tiny I am not convinced they could even penetrate through a sweater. Even though I don't believe there was a bat involved in this incident you are fearing, even if it was a bat, clothing would be like armor to these teeth. They are really really tiny.

How did I stop seeing bats everywhere? I am not entirely sure. I know, for a while, I was checking my house for bats nightly, since one had gotten into my house undetected. It is actually impossible to do that because they are small and, as I learned, can wind up anywhere, and the typical house has so much material in it that I think I finally just accepted that we are part of nature and, if this happens to us, we will have no choice but to accept it. I stopped checking and, now, I don't see or think much about bats. I said "much" because they do still cross my mind at times. But, the thought is fleeting and doesn't consume me like it used to. Finding that bat (I was actually a rabies worrier BEFORE this incident, given that we had a bunch of raccoons all up in our grill for a little while) was the BIGGEST FREAKOUT I have ever experienced in my 6 year career as a hypochondriac. I was too afraid even to write about it in an anxiety forum, I was so convinced my daughter was going to die, or one of my sons since I didn't know where the bat had been, or even myself or husband. But, I think knowing that a lot of time had passed since the bat would have been alive in the house-- and also seeing that each time we got sick was actually NOT rabies-- let me get the emotional distance I needed to come to acceptance that there is a small risk in life of being taken out by "nature" and that is just the way it is. I don't know if that comforts you at all, but I guess I found comfort in it somehow.

That is so great. I know the checking makes people with OCD think they're going to be reassured, but it never does. I know it's something I need to stop, but every time anything flutters by, I just feel like I have to check and make sure it wasn't a bat. No matter how many times I check, it's never enough to convince me that it wasn't. The hyperawareness definitely gets exhausting. Your acceptance of nature is really inspiring. I hope to get there one day.

[Panicandpeace]

Two perfect new little "bite" marks on my knuckle today. Y'all know the drill, the mental gymnastics I go through... it can never be anything but a bat bite in my brain. Pretty sure it's just chapped hands from the cold weather. However, the what ifs are strong today. "what if a bat bit you while walking to you car last night?..." Come onnn brain. A bat cannot bite your hand without you having a clue. These marks showing up in twos is not helpful. Really trying to just go about my day, and tell myself those marks are nothing. I have a therapy appointment today, thank goodness.

[NervUs]

Good luck with your surgery, Panic. Let us know how to goes.
I know you can stop self- checking. Just put little limits on it until you find you aren't doing it anymore. When people have run ins with wildlife, they know it. They don't have to stop and check. Maybe if you feel something flutter by, you can literally say to yourself, I don't have to check that and let your brain know who's boss. Everytime we give in, we are actually just strengthening that pathway in the brain that makes us so miserable. And, truly, you do not need to check!

---------- Post added at 12:20 ---------- Previous post was at 12:16 ----------


Two perfect new little "bite" marks on my knuckle today. Y'all know the drill, the mental gymnastics I go through... it can never be anything but a bat bite in my brain. Pretty sure it's just chapped hands from the cold weather. However, the what ifs are strong today. "what if a bat bit you while walking to you car last night?..." Come onnn brain. A bat cannot bite your hand without you having a clue. These marks showing up in twos is not helpful. Really trying to just go about my day, and tell myself those marks are nothing. I have a therapy appointment today, thank goodness.

Oh no...just saw this. The lesson to take is marks show up in twos. Even before the vaccine, rabies was pretty rare. And you have had what? Three exposures to rabies in 3 weeks? You know that is not possible. Marks come in twos, nothing more nothing less.

[Panicandpeace]

Good luck with your surgery, Panic. Let us know how to goes.
I know you can stop self- checking. Just put little limits on it until you find you aren't doing it anymore. When people have run ins with wildlife, they know it. They don't have to stop and check. Maybe if you feel something flutter by, you can literally say to yourself, I don't have to check that and let your brain know who's boss. Everytime we give in, we are actually just strengthening that pathway in the brain that makes us so miserable. And, truly, you do not need to check!

---------- Post added at 12:20 ---------- Previous post was at 12:16 ----------



Oh no...just saw this. The lesson to take is marks show up in twos. Even before the vaccine, rabies was pretty rare. And you have had what? Three exposures to rabies in 3 weeks? You know that is not possible. Marks come in twos, nothing more nothing less.

You're absolutely right about the checking strengthening the pathway to the brain. That marks show up in twos sometimes should be the takeaway lesson here, and I'm trying to resist the urge to call the doctor. You're right that would be 3 "exposures" in three weeks, and I know that's impossible. I'm not worried that all three of them happened, just that one of them might have happened. It's the crying wolf (in this case bat) thing... maybe the first instances weren't exposures, but this one is, and maybe I need to consult a doctor... I know, I know... eye roll. Trying.

[Panicandpeace]

I have a pretty calm few days... Like I've thought about bats, but it hasn't been the only thing I can think about. I've had a couple of "was that a bat?!" moments: seeing a shadow fly in front of me (made me think a bat flew behind me), still checking the ground a lot (trying not to), the doctor I spoke to at the health department a week or so ago had told me about some guy who had to get the shots because a bat was hiding out under his car, so now I get a little freaked out getting in and out of my car. I walked outside last night under some trees, and I didn't freak out, which I thought was good. I took the trash out the other day when it was kind of dark outside and was able to stay calm. Yesterday, as I was leaving my apartment, the wreath hanging on my door got caught in my hair which I didn't like because I imagined it felt like what a bat would feel like if they got tangled in your hair, but I calmed myself down pretty quickly. I think it's also a bit helpful that this is the time of year bats are hibernating. That eases my mind a tiny bit. Baby steps, right? My foot is kind of buzzing today, especially that toe. Trying to stay calm though.