A Little Bit of Politics ...........

[mezzaninedoor]

I thought maybe we needed a misc. thread that isn't about Trump or Brexit so we can talk about general politics. I know politics can be divisive so I thought a very obvious titled thread would mean that folks can avoid if they hate politics though Im pretty keen that people don't hide their head in the sand regards politics.

This week I've noticed a couple of different things: -
#1 George Osbourne appears to have changed his views on a lot of things. He thinks that all the following were wrong. He was wrong over the banking crisis, immigration targets, EU referendum, & to wish Theresa May ill. He also thinks that the Philip Hammond budget was wrong footed, trying to our Corbyn Corbyn by spending on public services etc in an unsustainable manner. So basically he thinks his Tories under Cameron & himself were wrong & he thinks the current Tories under Theresa May are wrong.

#2 Tony Blair thinks that Jeremy Corbyn is wrong, he thinks that Brexit is wrong, he thinks that Corbyn & Momentums leadership of the Labour party & of impact on policy is ending up with an unelectable party though he did vote Labour & for Corbyn in the last election. He doesn't apologise for getting things wrong though in his 10 years as PM. Though to be fair he did some good stuff until he went puppy dog into George W Bushs outstretched arms.

But this leaves us in a situation where half the Tory party are not behind the Tory leader and half the Labour party are not behind the Labour leader, but also any alternative Leadership would likely have the same problems.

it feels like we are going through huge change in the country & we are in a position where a lot of our political leadeship is very weak. Theresa May under siege, Jeremy Corbyn under siege, now Nicola Sturgeon is under siege as well, Vince Cable & the Lib Dems have huge finance and membership problems ........... It all just feels very messy amongst the political classes

[MyNameIsTerry]

Blair being a narcissistic person will mean apologies will be sparse and even then used for his gain. Those emotional teary speeches don't do the same nowadays.

He did some good, some bad. He's known for the bad over Iraq but the hospitals are royally screwed over PFI for years to come which is only colliding more with austerity.

He also enjoyed massaging the figures as they all do just in his case it was reducing standards so we now have every man & his dog with a degree to show how educated we British are yet how many of them mean anything? Employers got into a habit of seeing them as a useful standard meaning some potential employees just get sidelined for not having a completely irrelevant degree.

The forcing of equality was also prevalent in his time. X bodies needed regardless of better candidates as long as they tick some equality boxes.

I think Osborne is just an opportunist. I'm not sure he's so different to Boris other than sounding more appropriate.

Cable is just flushing the LibDems further into obscurity. He seems stuck on Brexit and trying to steer the youth vote from Corbyn. He has no chance on the latter.

I agree with you, more politics that are useful to people. Less ideology. Sadly Brexit has taken over and the NHS remains every party's political football. Push for standard of living, that benefits many of us.

One of the problems with this polarisation is that the country also becomes more fractured. Many of the Labour brass now are metropolitan politicians and their causes are often less important outside of the South. They seem to be more interested in Israel not realising a lot of their voters aren't and are more interested in things like minimum wage.

[mezzaninedoor]

US midterms

Though the poll has rated 57-42 to the Democrats its likely that the voting will narrow to more likely 53-46/47 or some such on the day, which might not deliver the House or the Senate for the Democrats due to Democrat voting pooling in some States, that which cost Clinton the election though she won the popular vote with Trump.

Lots of little battles over social media as well
Rhianna wants Trump to stop playing here music at MAGA rallys
Trump is saying that the Democrats are stealing the election with facebook ADS
Obama has recorded one or two appearances where he is effectively ridiculing Trump
Michael Bloomberg has spent $5million very late on in the campaign
Democrats are hoping there is a Youthquake, Republicans are hoping not

in UK news Raab has said that he WILL NOT shift on Irish backstop which could point to a No Deal Brexit if thats the case. Im not sure what the drop dead date is for any pre agreements to meet the March 2019 date are?

USA midterm timelines:-
19:00 EST (midnight GMT): Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, New Hampshire, South Carolina, Vermont, Virginia
19:30 EST (00:30 GMT): North Carolina, Ohio, West Virginia
20:00 EST (01:00 GMT): Alabama, Conneticut, Delaware, Florida, Illinois, Maine, Maryland, Massacheutts, Mississippi, Missouri, New Jersey, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Tennessee
20:30 EST (01:30 GMT): Arkansas
21:00 EST (02:00 GMT): Arizona, Colorado, Kansas, Louisiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Nebraska, New Mexico, New York, South Dakota, Texas, Wisconsin, Wyoming
22:00 EST (03:00 GMT): Iowa, Montana, Nevada, Utah
23:00 EST (04:00 GMT): California, Hawaii, Idaho, North Dakota, Oregon, Washington
01:00 EST (06:00 GMT): Alaska

[MyNameIsTerry]

Oh no, the US is set for a Brexit split then. :biggrin: That will only result in lots of shouting matches for years then...:whistles::winks:

I would have thought it's up to the record company that own Rihanna's music to decide? Can't he use some of "Ye's"? :biggrin:

[MyNameIsTerry]

Republicans strengthened in the Senate and the house flipped to Dems.

Several years of recrimination in the house and frustration of legislation to follow?

[mezzaninedoor]

Sounds like the House will frustrate the President.
Sounds like the Senate will frustrate the Democrats.
Sounds like the President will continue to crow on Twitter.

:)

[MyNameIsTerry]

Brexit it is then :winks:

[mezzaninedoor]

Im not actually sure how genuine this is.
The Guardian doesnt really intimate the value of the source?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/06/leaked-plan-to-sell-brexit-deal-measured-success-is-the-narrative

[MyNameIsTerry]

Im not actually sure how genuine this is.
The Guardian doesnt really intimate the value of the source?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/06/leaked-plan-to-sell-brexit-deal-measured-success-is-the-narrative

I read recently we are now entering a period of secrecy known as "the corridor".

I wonder if this is the same kind of secrecy that involves the many leaks to the media where we are told "an official source said" or "we have been shown a document?

I would argue we've had the best secrecy there is so far by way of misdirection. Has anyone got a bloody clue what the hell is going on?

[mezzaninedoor]

my Brexit poem in full:-

https://tonyamis.blogspot.com/2018/11/twas-night-before-brexit-poemparody.html

[mezzaninedoor]

so EU gives us an incredible consession in phase 2 of the withdrawal
staying in the customs union without freedom of movement

phase 3 is the prize for Brexiteers but they dont seem to want to compromise at all to get there

Rather F@*K up the Uk economy in a No Deal or straight to very hard Brexit

[MyNameIsTerry]

Isn't that just like an emergency brake? We already could do that with EU approval.

I'm presuming phase 2 is a few years given the brake lasts 7.

FoM is Single Market. I think the issue is no one is in the Single Market without being in a CU or with a bilateral agreement. Countries only in CU's don't get SM market benefits...I think.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Here's another reason why I'm grateful we have the NHS:

https://www.wddty.com/news/2018/12/hospital-refuses-to-treat-children-who-havent-been-vaccinated.html?utm_source=Boomtrain&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=enews_04122018&utm_term&utm_content&bt_ee=KZ0AHk%2BZtmfpRc%2BHwsdL21zNMoAZ4%2BhF8YdKmi TYBUsBsjqCpUvPD60Hod9JSNDQxItY6ZBAXKSmXnd2rlozmg%3 D%3D&bt_ts=1543922315501

A major pediatric hospital in the US is refusing to treat children who have not been vaccinated or haven't followed the proper schedule.
The Johns Hopkins All Children's Hospital in St Petersburg, Florida has given parents a 90-day notice to get their children fully vaccinated or find a different hospital. The hospital says it won't recognise the usual religious exemptions, even though it's an exclusion that is permitted under Florida state law.

In a note to parents, the hospital's medical director, Rachel Dawkins, says it won't accept any new patients who aren't vaccinated, and existing patients who have not been vaccinated, or not completed the schedule, must comply within 90 days.

"Our practice believes that vaccinating children and young adults is a crucial step to promoting healthy lives and futures," she wrote in a letter dated November 1st.

"Unvaccinated children are at higher risk for becoming ill with a host of preventable diseases that can have serious and sometimes devastating consequences. In addition, unvaccinated children can potentially spread a preventable disease to another child who may be too young to be vaccinated or who is immune compromised."

She says the vaccines have been "thoroughly tested" for their safety and effectiveness.

The ban hasn't been universally welcomed, even among doctors. One, Dr Robert J Rowen in California, describes the notice as "the next phase of the systematic destruction of your healthcare rights emanating from the vaccine industry."

:doh:

I don't thinking pushing people out leads to them tackling the issue and what of the poor kids stuck in the middle of issues their parents are causing? Doctors are usually more interested in treating the patient rather than moralising about their choices...they will happily treat a murderer but not a child who hasn't been vaccinated and that just seems bizarre thinking to me. :unsure:

[mezzaninedoor]

Absolutely.
The NHS, with its faults, is a National gem.
Just like the BBC, with its faults, is a National gem.

If you lose either of them, they would never come back.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Yes, if the NHS went if there came a time for it to return I suspect we would have the battles the US are having over it. It would just be set up to line the pockets of those doing so and not about providing care to those who can't afford it.

[mezzaninedoor]

I like this TED talk, I struggle with understanding economics, this makes sense to me

https://www.ted.com/talks/kate_raworth_a_healthy_economy_should_be_designed_ to_thrive_not_grow?

[mezzaninedoor]

........... a few things I cant quite get my head around:-

Elizabeth Warren is a favourite to get the Democrat nomination for President, there was a lot of polling that suggested that a female Presidential candidate was unlikely to unseat Trump so this all seems odd.

The continuing inability to find a Deal that commands the majority of MPs for Brexit. No Deal does and 'No Deal' doesn't.

Why is Corbyn not nicking at the Toires in the Polls.

Why are the Remain party Liberal Democrats not doing anything in the Polls.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Like Brexit, Corbyn doesn't have a solid winning majority. Add Brexit and he can't win. He can't keep his metro luvvies happy and his northern working base as they are at odds with each other. But he is trying to be the everyman and some see it just fence sitting. Some say Labour should let the Tories have a free reign because they can use that to bounce back into government. But some, clearly more intelligent people, see that as a really stupid idea that is just about getting in to government at any cost and rightly wouldn't support that policy.

It's just two torn parties.

I guess some of the press stuff plays it's part in anti-Corbyn feeling but even before all this he was viewed as what many don't want in anyway.

Both parties need to get back to having a solid leadership with backing. Until then, it's just going to be hung Parliaments and all this nonsense we keep seeing.

As for the Lib Dems, they are kidding themselves chasing the youth vote. The youth remember they betrayed them a few years back, it was Cable himself, but they just don't have the grassroots campaigning of Momentum to try to steal votes from Corbyn. Between a poor strategy targeting the youth and opposing Brexit at any cost they just end up reducing any possible vote share.

Both they and UKIP have become pointless.

The only people who may vote for the Lib Dems are surely those who want Brexit cancelling at any cost? I've seen some say that and others saying they won't vote for them as it lets the Tories back in as it takes votes away from Labour. And some just don't vote at all.

Scrapping a vote they gave us is unpopular with sensible Remainers who know it's not only going to light a bigger fire but also set precedents for other failed pledges.

[Richard1960]

Im afraid if the government want to get the "Brexit' shambles through they are going to have to reach out .

Sure Corbyn's vote of no confidence is going nowhere ,and I say that as a member of the Labour Party myself.

However in order to get it over the line the Conservatives will have to give ground on worker protections employment rights ,so when its over the lovely people who bought us illegal £1200 industrial tribunal fees ,and 2 years wait before employment protection comes in ,cannot do the same with EU employment law protections after we leave .

To that end Caroline Flint Labour MP indicated as much tonight ,hers is the cross party support Mrs may needs but thus far failed to attract.

[MyNameIsTerry]

It's all questions with not many answers. The PM could did her (expensive :biggrin:) heels in and we crash out anyway. The blame would get spread about although she & her cohorts would take a lot of it.

The funny thing is it's sometimes best to pick a side and stick with it. This is so all over the place neither side is confident...or should that be quarters, fifths, sixths, etc :winks:

---------- Post added at 04:30 ---------- Previous post was at 04:27 ----------


........... a few things I cant quite get my head around:-

Elizabeth Warren is a favourite to get the Democrat nomination for President, there was a lot of polling that suggested that a female Presidential candidate was unlikely to unseat Trump so this all seems odd.



Does this mean they are picking any woman as they want a woman? That's how they ended up with Hillary.

I've heard better things about Warren, not that I follow US politics, but I hope it's not about the right candidate over the best one again.

Why were they polling badly? It doesn't make sense that it was gender based.

[mezzaninedoor]

The PM has got to go cross party to sort this out.
She can't keep Corbyn outside the tent in order to sort this out.
She will also need to extend article 50 by 3 months Im guessing.

[MyNameIsTerry]

When she mentioned A50 extension for a short period the EU stated it would be 12 months each time to cover financial years. Seems fair enough to me otherwise they would be stuck in our ridiculous "another 2 weeks should do it guv" scenario.

Way to late for cross party stuff. The MP's who said it should be cross party from the beginning were right at the time although I bet those meetings would have needed a strong chairman and lots of gavels would have been gone through :biggrin:

[mezzaninedoor]

stream of conciousness and partly from reading the book 'Factfulness'

In a perfect fact driven world journalists would always present the News in a completely accurate way and theyd give us plenty of relevant context to ensure that the News has the impact and heft it requires. We live in the real world though where journalists are in the job of attracting readers & viewers, we as readers love things to be simple, not complex, also we seem to quite like drama. As a result the worldview we have is more often than not skewed - a poor representation of what the worlds really like. At the heart of our messed up world views seem to be the belief that things are far worse than they have ever been, at least that’s what it feels like sometimes. Regarding global warming Im sure theres some truth to that but some things couldn’t be further from the truth. There are far less people living in poverty than ever before across the world which makes the use of food banks in the UK seem ridiculous as a country that’s in the G7 of Nations. That’s probably amazing as 200 years ago 85 percent of the world was living in poverty, we’ve come a long way, that doesn’t mean we stop addressing the areas where poverty is still a horrible trap that people fall into.

People are living longer the world over, is that a good or bad thing? Far less countries are ruled over by sexist and oppressive patriarchies, the world isn’t really divided by east & west anymore, natural disasters are less deadly than they have ever been. I guess if you are in the eye of the storm the general picture isn’t really a salve for you though. I guess my takeaway at the moment is that the world is full of have & have nots & that is subjective and perhaps drives some of the behaviours we see.

[MyNameIsTerry]

That's the important point though isn't it, Tony? Who is in the eye of the storm and who is melodramatic. We have people saying a small % using food banks makes us third world. I wonder if people from poor countries would laugh or cry at that nonsense?

What was that BBC article not long ago, something about the worst pay rises since Napoleonic times? :roflmao: Things are so bad all the kids with the nice clothes and choccie bars are worse off than my parents & grandparents who had sod all. I often wonder whether they base this poorness on middle class comparisons because anyone with any remote awareness of the past knows just how poor poor actually was.

Human beings. Let the machines or the ants report on the news and we will get it how it is. It's full of bias due to the owner, the business statement of purpose, even the individuals.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Tony, did that book mention anything about how the media seem to flit from story to story?

Given todays events that probably mean the Saltire has gone to half mast :winks: I was wondering what happened to all those MeToo Parliament cases? Not long ago we had a resurgence when the Labour ones came out but it just seems to drift away for nothing to be heard.

It's like how a mass shooting in the US dominates our news for days and then we never here of it again. We don't get follow up. Our US members must see such cases for ages and get follow up but our news just seem to forget about them.

[mezzaninedoor]

Terry, it didnt really mention the medias fleeting interest in story or narrative.

Its interesting as the TV media rarely seems to get under the nails of a political story these days and Panorama exposes etc seem rarely to look at politics like they used to. It seems we have the worst bunch of politicians in generations and yet they are under less of a microscope than ever

Its especially odd that politics doesn't get the analysis it should at the moment, bearing in mind that geopolitically there is a lot to wonder/worry about dependant on your political persuasion. A lot of people would say that NATO, EU, G-20, G-7, WTO, US-China, Russia-West are all potentially going in the wrong directions to salve the problems of the World economically. Africa though richer than its ever been is still denied equal footing on the world stage.

Cyber, 2019 is expected to be the year that the USA & the West start to retaliate to the Chinese & Russian et al Cyber threats, what might this mean to any integrity that the West wants to have when it looks like under the covers the West will start to exploit the tools that other nations do already with Cyber. Will Russia and the West contest Cyber battling over the Ukraine elections in March for example. Ukraine feels like a blue touch paperin world relations.

The EU has to deal with populism and nationalism, sometimes the man in the street cant see the difference between patriotism and nationalism, I for example feel Im a UK patriot but Im not a Nationalist. It feels like the nationalists/populists will score victories across the EU & possibly a No Deal Brexit in the UK in the coming months and this will mean a torrid political time for Europe.

I dont have any answers but I have lots of questions and though I read around lots of stuff I dont find that the Main Stream Media or the non Main Stream Media are providing the analysis that I need these days. Theres huge gaps in the political narrative at the moment across the world.

& all the above is without understanding where Syria, Yemen, non EU Migration will take the World in 2019

[jray23]

It's like how a mass shooting in the US dominates our news for days and then we never here of it again. We don't get follow up. Our US members must see such cases for ages and get follow up but our news just seem to forget about them.

Nope, it's the same here too. It's an endless cycle of hype and emotion-driven broadcast, every few days is a new topic hit on over and over again. And as you say, instead of using that time to really dive deep into complex situations, it all just focuses on surface-level headlines designed specifically to pit one side against the other. It's quite sickening really.

It's quite predictable, even. This weekend it's about the (temporary for now) end of the US shutdown, by mid-week next week I guarantee it will be on to something else, if not a news event like a big mass shooting (since there's small ones every day here) then it will be about some new political or social squabble, perhaps Trump will call California socialist or a new study will unveil that immigrants get in more car accidents than natural citizens, and everyone will weigh in, first the pundits, then after the politicians see the reaction they weigh in, and in a few days some actors and singers will post crying on Instagram that it's a horrific story as if they knew anything about it in the first place. If it's especially marketed as "us vs them" there will be angry people holding signs outside and yelling a lot. Then the other side will say they were paid to do so by their opposing side. Everyday people will post on Facebook that they either support or hate the topic, and feel like they changed the world somehow, even though half of them don't vote and 90% of the half that do vote can't even write three logical paragraphs explaining their political views. Then rinse and repeat the next week all over again.

It's not even just in the Trump-era, it's been like this for a solid 10-15 years at least.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

[MyNameIsTerry]

The sewer continues to breed rats:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/jailed-labour-mp-fiona-onasanya-will-continue-to-receive-taxpayer-funded-salary-in-prison/ar-BBSTrCd?ocid=spartanntp

A former whip. But then we've seen the behaviour of whips recently with their dirty tricks when we saw that nonsense list of sexual offences they compiled to blackmail MP's into doing what they want...sorry, persuade. Given this MP's opinion of the law it's easy to see how the whips may be quite vile unscrupulous people.

So, expelled by Labour. 1922 Committee I'm guessing. Hold a by-election so we can boot her arse out and strip that pay. Or do what any employee would and give her a proper sack where you stop being paid for the job you aren't even doing...because you are in jail. I wonder, if she decided to run as an independent, whether she would have her team in the next cell with full broadband and phones rather than someone having to smuggle one up in their backside?

You have to despair at Westminster.

Good to see a judge apply a custodial sentence in this case though, not only a MP but a solicitor too. Hopefully they will look to her professional memberships next. Plenty of lag looking for bent solicitors about though so she will be ok. :winks:

[Lola-Lee]

That car! doesn’t look like it would go very fast.:roflmao:You name it Terry I have seen it all when it comes to what people stick up their asses while visiting inmates.:D:whiplash:

[MyNameIsTerry]

That car! doesn’t look like it would go very fast.:roflmao:You name it Terry I have seen it all when it comes to what people stick up their asses while visiting inmates.:D:whiplash:

Yeah, but has anyone ever tried to smuggle in a load of election campaign stickers up their bum? :roflmao: I bet you have seen it all. I used to work in the mobile phone industry when I was young and saw some pretty shit phones...but nothing like the shit phones you see :winks: /asking "does it come with a plug" means a whole different thing in your line of work :roflmao: It is a testament to the quality of them though and they should use it on big posters in their ad campaigns. "The new iPhone. So tough you can carry it around up your bum and still get a signal afterwards :yesyes:

Perhaps she supped it up with a V8? :yesyes:

[mezzaninedoor]

Have always felt that MPs should be dealt with more severely than they have been when they break the law or break the parliamentary rules.

There should have been far more convictions when they were fiddling their expenses as well

[mezzaninedoor]

Just been reading in Politics First about how the success story of 2019 in the NHS will be the parity of Mental Health with Physical Health due to the new £2.3 billion of additional mental health funding. However it still feels to me from my dealings with my Mental Health that nothing had changed / is changing. Apparently by 2023 we will have a round the clock mental health crisis line on a par with 111 , probably roled out through 111. The one thing that really does need to happen is more patient access to talking therapies but at the same time these need to be qualified practitioners and not cardigan counsellors whom dont have the insight that those navigating mental health need.

Parity of esteem is an interesting phrase to use as we have seen that eroded by this same Government since 2010 and in my local area the Norfolk & Suffolk Mental Health Trusts have been in special measures 3 out of the last 4 years and are currently in special measures.

All party commitees on Social Media, Young Peoples Mental Health and Wellbeing have got to look beyond the cash injection to get parity of esteem, its the attitudes of Health Professionals & Occupational Health teams in Businesses that need to en educated as well in order to deliver change in this.

Mental Health has been on the Agenda for several years now, reports have happened often on TV News and in the 4th Estate but in the last 4/5 years veryt little has changed for the better, does the billions ensure that things will change in the next 4/5 years ????

[MyNameIsTerry]

Tony,

I really can't see that being anything but a token gesture. And there is no way it will achieve parity with physical care, we are a long way off that. As you say, the services themselves just aren't there and like the arguments over the shortages of doctors this will take years to sort out.

Our disorders can take years to sort out. The charity & voluntary sector take up much of the strain and they understand it's not just about what is considered illness but about healthy living. Some of these issues are related to our place I society and they are not easy to address when you consider they spill over into substance misuse, homelessness, crime, lack of social mobility, education failures, etc.

Chronic illness on physical care is not exactly that great either.

How is the money spread? One year or across several? It doesn't seem that much to me considering the costs the NHS has flagged about mental health. There is also the question of money saved by better services but who is joining this up?

Having a 111 you can call for mental health support seems a bit odd in a way. We could call them now and tie up their lines like a crisis line. But 111 are very patchy, I've heard doctors admit they are a poor service causing them problems! It may be a lifeline to those who need phone support but what will they do? Just tell you to go to A&E as they often do now as a disclaimer?

[MyNameIsTerry]

I'll add the sleave in here that is Lord David Steel. The man who has said to the current enquiry he suspected Sir Cyril Smith was guilty of child abuse yet decided it wasn't his concern because it happened before he joined the party and even put him up for a knighthood. And has even gone as far as saying he may do the same again today if it happened.

:doh::wall:

What is wrong with these people? How can they retain positions like this were they can influence the protection of the vulnerable through policy and voting when they seem to see little wrong in such such abuse?

[mezzaninedoor]

so in the last week we have Boris decide that historical child abuse investigations were 'spaffing' money up the wall, what a moron and what a pitiable turn of phrase !!!

& David Steel, someone I admired, thinks that it wasn't on his watch to deal with because if was before his time !!!

be99ars belief

We have so many mental health problems to deal with today because of the historical treatment of todays adults by yesterdays adults

[MyNameIsTerry]

BJ's comments were just incredible. The choice of words was unbelievable. Why don't we just stop investigating all past crimes and let everyone off? :doh:

[MyNameIsTerry]

A very serious far right terrorist attack in New Zealand. RIP to those lost and support wished to those who remain with us. The statement by the Australian senator made me just :doh: It's not the time to raise political concerns about immigration, if that's what they can be termed?

[mezzaninedoor]

The Oz senator was really out of order.
We have family in Oz & NZ.
In NZ they are amazed as the local community where Muslims & Christians & Atheists live together is a really positive one.

They are really in shock that this could have happened where it did.
Also the Bangledesh cricket team were only minutes away from being caught up in it, makes you wonder if that was the target at the Mosque.

RIP and Sympathies to all those impacted in NZ

[MyNameIsTerry]

I really hope the videos are removed as best they can be. Another misuse of technology . They will always be out there but hopefully most of us won't see what these monsters did. We don't need to, we can understand events without seeing the excitement of the perpetrators.

[mezzaninedoor]

Im putting this in here as its a different strand of thought that there was an article in G2 of the Guardian published today that dealt with looking at how Brexit was affecting peoples mental health. A poll of 2000 folks by Britain Thinks ( I dont know who they are so i better google them at some point ) saying that 83% of people sick of Brexit and 64% think its negatively affecting Mental Health. I guess for some Brexit is an existential threat to them, to the UK ?!?

Wasn't it Cameron who introduced Happiness indices for the UK measuring optimism and peccesmism.

I think the below is an online article earlier in the week on the same subject:-
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/02/six-in-10-britons-say-brexit-uncertainty-bad-for-mental-health

BritainThinks are an international insight and strategy consultancy. Im none the wiser having found their website !!!

[MyNameIsTerry]

To be honest, Tony, it's very subjective. What do they believe mental health means? People getting anxious or stressed isn't good or people like us who are in the system? The latter I would need to see from someone like the NHS discussing this as a root cause.

Generally any stress is bad for your health. Social media, poor employment conditions, anything...

But there are a lot of people who conflate clinical with normal levels of stress, anxiety and depression. The break up teens who are depressed, the people who clean a lot who make comments about OCD, etc which are far away from disorder levels.

But I would agreed about the whole sick of it issue. The trouble is the inertia and squabbling. If they had sorted all this a year ago the mood would be better because at least we have something to go on. It dominates TV but then it's such a far reaching issue it is going to dominate our economy for years to come so how can it be any other way? We just have to ensure other domestic issues don't suffer for it or it gets used by politicians/media to distract away from other failures.

They could put the same to businesses and it would be as predictable.

It's worth knowing though.

There is also the danger of trivialising mental health. It's trendy in celeb circles to label oneself without diagnosis and it's something many of us with be unhappy with. So many celebs, here and in the US, have got it totally wrong in claiming they have something e.g. I have OCD and it makes me more productive at work so I'm more successful :doh:

I think they may be more stringent in criteria if asked if it is affecting their physical health.

[mezzaninedoor]

Rees Moggs Somerset Capital Management is managed via subsidiaries in the tax havens (https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/09/brexiters-put-money-offshore-tax-haven) of the Cayman Islands and Singapore. Rees-Mogg has defended the use of tax havens, saying (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/sep/20/tory-treasurer-make-uk-tax-haven) “I do not believe people have any obligation to pay more tax than the law requires.” But as Rees-Mogg might have quipped himself, crescit amor nummi, quantum ipsa pecunia crevit – the love of wealth grows as the wealth itself grows.

I looked this up as a friend said 'I really like that Rees Mogg, a real man of principal'

I believe he has also set up a post Brexit fund management vehicle in Ireland

[MyNameIsTerry]

As far as Brexit goes, they will all be protecting their assets regardless of whether they steered the ship or lost a Remain vote.

But this whole tax haven and avoidance stuff needs stopping. We can't do it because we aren't the rich. It's legal currently.

A point raised against this is that the rich contribute more tax than many of us so shouldn't they be allowed to earn more? It would be hypocritical to argue I wouldn't feel that way and if any government raises our taxes we complain (ask people if they would add a few % to their taxes to help the NHS or they want to have their holidays and TV's and you will see a lot complaining) but it just feels wrong and set up for the friends of the rich or the politicians whilst services are being slashed.

[mezzaninedoor]

So you thought we had finished with the Expenses scandals.
That these MPs had learnt their lessons and things were all hunky dory in HOC land.
..... well think again !!!!

160 MPs are said to have benfefitted from the taxpayer funded mortgage perk, to the tune of at least £42 million pounds, in fact probably more than that.

Michael Gove had made £870k , Maria Miller £1.23 million, David Treddnnick £2.85 million

Martin Bell, not sure of hes currently an MP, says that all the 160 MPs should pay these profits back.

6 Tories and 1 Labour MP have made £1 million at least each.

...... however under Parliamentary rules they are allowed to keep the gains !?!?! This seems to be a real odd loophole when you consider that they are given the benefit to help them dispense their Parliamentary obligations not to turn a profit by wheeling and dealing around these homes. It feels like the Commons ethics committee needs to tighten up something around these rules with regards to this mortgage perk.

This mortgage perk came in after the Expenses scandal and was meant to make things more transparent and controlled. in fact it has seen things get worse it seems. Average money made by Tories £417,000 each and Labour £193,000 each.

The expenses scandal 10 years ago only hauled back £1.3 million for the public coffers, have things got worse ??? Is this another experience for the public that we have greedy MPs at the trough ???

[MyNameIsTerry]

It sounds like the ended one scheme and just started up another knowing it could be exploited. :mad:

Whilst Nick Clegg have £40k back, which is great, I question why he seemed to profit far less than anyone else? Did he invest in a less lucrative property?

It seems to me that MP's may have access to inside information about improvement schemes that increase housing value hence can exploit a scheme like this further.

There could be a valid argument for MP's in here in that they are investing their own money so should expect some level of return but at the same time, as the ex MP campaigning to change this noted, there is the possibility they are claiming far too much because they are able to finance a more valuable property. There should be caps. And there should be guidelines on what is acceptable.

To be honest, why give them a free reign? Give them an allowance value and expect them to find something within a price range. Just because Gove may be able to afford a palace doesn't mean we should allow him more than someone willing to slum it with the rest of us.

Work out what they need to pay back and force them too. Perhaps we can crowdfund a big red bush with "we can save £42m" on it? :yesyes:

[mezzaninedoor]

Work out what they need to pay back and force them too. Perhaps we can crowdfund a big red bush with "we can save £42m" on it? :yesyes:

I really love the idea of a big red bush ;) How do you see this working? Painting individual leaves to show your slogan or projecting the slogan on to it. Hopefully the big red bush isn't on someones personage ?!? ;)

[MyNameIsTerry]

Oops, I meant to write big red bus! :doh::roflmao: Although perhaps a big red burning bush with "thou shalt not steal" on it would be appropriate too? (coveting your neighbours ass too, we mustn't forget those Westminster sex scandals :winks:) :yesyes:

We could get "the People" to write a leaf to reflect our thoughts. Some might need to be high up on the bush though so juniors can't read them :ohmy::blush:

No, probably not on someone's personage (what a dirty mind :biggrin:) but it could spark political vagazzles!!! :roflmao:

[mezzaninedoor]

So.... House of Lords.
What should happen?
Citizens Assembley where we sequestor people like for Jury service?
Do we need a Royal Commission to decide what happens with the UK's second House?

With Brexit delayed are there any big ideas that could fix Politics in the medium/long term?

Is an election the only way out of the impasse? Is it the only way to shift the actuall parliamentary numbers which don't seem to stack up for any option at the moment?

I'm not really sure what I'm saying here but as the MP's are on holiday do we see any way that Theresa May is likely to move things forward or will we see meaningful vote #4 then #5 then ......................

[MyNameIsTerry]

Jury service yes please...as long as I get all their cash payouts! :yesyes:

A Royal Commission sounds a good idea. The Lords was Cromwell's way to feather the nest for our "betters" and it is long out of date. An elected upper house of some kind would make more sense now. Also it is a dumpuing ground for mates of politicians and they use it to make money. I used to work for an insurance company many years ago and they had a Lord on their board who, according to the MD, was only there for purposes of making a smaller company look good and opening doors.

I really don't believe a GE will resolve anything. The most it can do is return a majority for...someone :shrug: Since a GE is about a lot more than Brexit it's sad they will be blighted by it so everything else is on hold.

Time is that great healer, I suspect. Whether we stay or go eventually people will move on. For some time the average person in the street has been sick of hearing about something they voted on ages ago and just want to dealt with. The more distance, the more normal life and everything else that is a problem will push it off the frnt pages.