Talk to me about intrusive thoughts

[Suziewuzie]

I'd really like to hear peoples experience of this - I'm not even sure if that's the correct name for what I'm experiencing. I've always assumed intrusive thoughts were an OCD thing but Dr Google tells me it's also an anxiety thing.
My panic attacks & general feelings of dread have subsided since I re-started citalopram 2 weeks ago, I look fine outwardly and am able to act and function like a 'normal' person. But I've got a constant stream of thoughts running through my head, always the same; you're going mad, this is more than anxiety, you're not okay, you're going to end up getting sectioned, something is wrong with you.
Sometimes I can ignore them & rationalise them. Sometimes I have to stop what I'm doing and give them all of my attention, I think this isn't a normal way to think, there must be something else wrong with me and I need to get help.
Can anyone relate to this?! I have a GP review today to discuss how I'm doing on the meds so I do plam on discussing it with him. I get worried that it might be bipolar or borderline personality disorder.

[Scass]

Yes I can relate, it’s so hard to cut them off. It’s like a little devil on your shoulder arguing back at you, or just piping up every so often with some criticism or something scary.


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[Suziewuzie]

Ahh thanks for the reply Scass, it's really good to know it's not just me. Why do our brains do this?!

[Scass]

I don’t know! Perhaps they thought we were getting too complacent?!


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[MyNameIsTerry]

Brains do it because it's just how brains work. Intrusive thoughts are part of normal brain functioning, just as Mind Pops are, anxiety and many other things. Like anything else, it's about balance and normalisation i.e. are we reacting as we should be?

Intrusive thoughts happen to potentially all human beings, as studies have shown, because it's normal brain functioning. Therefore anyone with anxiety can have them despite their diagnosis but they will likely react to them in negative ways unlike someone without anxiety who just experiences a very weird thought but gets on with their day.

If intrusive thoughts become problematic enough to warrant a diagnosis of their own they fall into two main categories; OCD or depression. Obviously those disorders are more diverse and may be more prevalent or less so in some of the sub disorders and that may again depend on whether they are enough to warrant being the diagnosis.

But yes, whenever you see them discussed it will mainly be OCDers talking because they form a large number of categories in OCD or "themes " or "flavours" that they are often termed. They get their labels (e.g. ROCD, HOCD, POCD, etc) but these are just sufferers labels and not used by doctors. Those themes are larger than just intrusive thoughts as they will contain the cycles themselves and OCD isn't contained by a made up label and has the freedom to wander around hence so many people label themselves with many of them but it's really still OCD. OCD in the WHO manual splits into only a small number of labels that look at which part of the obsessive-cycle is the most prevalent i.e. mainly obsessions, mainly compulsions, mixed, other/undefined. etc.

It could be that you also have a lot of overthinking going on. Intrusive thoughts pop in but we can also consciously obsess over them. Intrusive thoughts can also have subtle triggers.

I think I read you had recently started a new med? That alone can cause intrusive thoughts and they should hopefully settle down. Starting/adjusting meds can also spike anxiety and intrusive thoughts may be because of that hence as anxiety settles, so do they.

OCDers tend to agree, from my experience, that increased levels of anxiety for any reason push up their issues with intrusive thoughts (intensity, frequency, strength of the obsessive-compulsive cycle) but once it fades, so do they.

[Suziewuzie]

Thanks Terry, a really helpful reply as always. You're right that I'm day 12 of Citalopram & if I wasn't such an anxious mess I would know that any heightened anxiety is being caused by this. I had been quite good at not paying attention to them but when it's always the same thoughts about my sanity it gets a little harder to ignore. It's also really hard to explain to people, when I tell them I'm having a bad day they assume I'm feeling down in the dumps but really I'm sitting on the sofa arguing with myself that I'm losing my mind & will be carried away in a straight jacket soon. I have to laugh when I see my 16 year old niece post memes about 'anxiety' and wish I had the more socially acceptable form of anxiety where people feel a tad awkward at parties.

[MyNameIsTerry]

No probs, Suzie.

Yes, intrusive thoughts are scary enough but when you are knew to them, and already struggling hence needing some support, it's only going to be more fuel to fire. But if the med is raising your underlying anxiety levels that could even be the reason why you are getting them and once that subsides they may just go.

It's worth keeping your GP informed on this. If they don't go they may want to consider the merits of a switch. Sometimes one med does this to someone and another doesn't.

It's too early at the moment but obviously if the side effects are too unbearable there is no shame in asking your GP is it's best to change strategy.

I'm sure you well know that starting meds can be a matter of just sitting it out until it fades. Until then it can be hard to address as our techniques are more keeping us afloat each day than reducing much of anything.

Are there any themes in there about mental illness or harming? The only reason I ask is because fear of things like schizophrenia are quite common in intrusive thoughts. And so are the harm based ones. So, you can take some reassurance from the fact they are well known and nothing unusual that could make you worry about things other than OCD.

I've had intrusive thoughts about going mad. I remember having days where it felt so intense, the agitation, that I had intrusive thoughts about bashing my head in on the wall.

But then many without intrusive thoughts have conscious thoughts of going mad with anxiety too, it's just part of the constant bombardment of symptoms. I read elsewhere that you work in healthcare so I'm sure you understand all this better than I and the stuff about how those who do lose control don't know it's happening.

Yeah, we can only hope they don't experience what an anxiety feels like and that they become more educated in the differences.

[Suziewuzie]

The theme just tends to be none-specific "madness" with me. I know I can't 'become' schizophrenic - but did fixate on this for a few weeks previously until I was able to rationalise and rventually ignore it. Now it's just the thought that I won't be in control; I'll have a really OTT breakdown where I'm screaming & I have to be sedated and live out my days shuffling around a MH hospital dribbling. Extreme, I know! In my calm moments - like now - it sounds hilarious, but in anxious moments it's as if it's literally about to happen, this is the moment I finally lose control & have to be hospitalised.
I am actually feeling 100% more normal today day 15 on Citalopram and I think it's been quite a drastic improvement so I'm happy to put up with any heightened anxiety for now. I just went to give my sick note into my boss and she very casually said that she used to have intrusive thoughts, if she was holding a knife she'd think "Imagine stabbing my family right now" it must have been awful but actually hearing that helped A LOT! As she's really not the type of person I ever imagined could relate to this.

[Anaximenes]

Thoughts are constantly popping into our minds. We can not stop them but we can decide what to do about them. I try to notice them, acknowledge them and then think of them as speech bubbles that pop into existence and just like a bubble pop out of existence. The trick is not too follow them and recognise that they are not real. They are ones set of possibilities so I try to offer them a different set. Try to treat them with kindness but not inevitability

[Suziewuzie]

Wow thank you for that lovely reply. That is something I learned about in my Mindfulness course & I'm managing to follow it most of the time, it's just sometimes so hard to remember it.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Thoughts are constantly popping into our minds. We can not stop them but we can decide what to do about them. I try to notice them, acknowledge them and then think of them as speech bubbles that pop into existence and just like a bubble pop out of existence. The trick is not too follow them and recognise that they are not real. They are ones set of possibilities so I try to offer them a different set. Try to treat them with kindness but not inevitability

Yes, that's a good dispelling technique. :yesyes:

I remember with mine I would try to view them as a lost of options, nothing more, being blurted out. I could choose which were nonsense and which could have more thought.

It's hard to do as these thoughts are so scary by their nature but once you get progress it gets easier.

Also, background anxiety is worth attacking. This only keeps this stuff on high alert so things like relaxation work to calm your body do have their place rather than just direct work on OCD.

---------- Post added at 02:39 ---------- Previous post was at 02:38 ----------


The theme just tends to be none-specific "madness" with me. I know I can't 'become' schizophrenic - but did fixate on this for a few weeks previously until I was able to rationalise and rventually ignore it. Now it's just the thought that I won't be in control; I'll have a really OTT breakdown where I'm screaming & I have to be sedated and live out my days shuffling around a MH hospital dribbling. Extreme, I know! In my calm moments - like now - it sounds hilarious, but in anxious moments it's as if it's literally about to happen, this is the moment I finally lose control & have to be hospitalised.
I am actually feeling 100% more normal today day 15 on Citalopram and I think it's been quite a drastic improvement so I'm happy to put up with any heightened anxiety for now. I just went to give my sick note into my boss and she very casually said that she used to have intrusive thoughts, if she was holding a knife she'd think "Imagine stabbing my family right now" it must have been awful but actually hearing that helped A LOT! As she's really not the type of person I ever imagined could relate to this.

Sounds like you've got a good boss there. Such thoughts can easily be seen as something more insidious unless you are familiar with them. I think your boss having been through it remembers full well how scary it is and wanted to help you see you're not alone and it's nothing odd or indicative of anything sinister in you.