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MrLurcher
02-12-18, 18:12
So, since I was a teen I have suffered with health anxiety and have probably done it all in terms of catastrophising about serious illnesses. I overcame that in my midtwenties but now it's sort of back. I'm 32 now, and I've been in a state of depression and quite severe fluctuating anxiety over the past 12 months, worried about money, house problems, jobs, and more recently again, my health. It's affected my work, concentration, and now my family.

So far in my life, I've 'had';
Testicular cancer when I was 17
Heart disease when I was 20
Developing schizophrenia around 22
Numerous worries about blood pressure
Numerous worries about types of cancer
Obsessing over cuts and grazes turning into sepsis


A month ago I ended up in A&E because I was convinced I had a sinus CSF leak. I had two bouts of leakage after bending down during the day, and I was out of control with panic. Obviously nothing was wrong.

Last week I had some tummy troubles (I think I've had IBS for a while), and I've been googling Crohn's disease, Ulcerative Colitis, Stomach Ulcers.

Past week or so, I've been compiling evidence that I'm developing Motor Neuron. Over the past few weeks I've been dropping things more often (or I think I'm dropping things more often). So far I dropped a bottle in work which broke, an ipad slipped out of my hand, dropped car keys when I opened a door, dropped my deodorant this morning, and a phone flew out of my hand while I was doing my seatbelt.

On top of that I've been having a few achy legs now and again, and when i talk to strangers for the first time I sometimes get my words mixed up, not sure if that's just the anxiety though.....

I'm convinced this is probably Motor Neuron, even though there are various sources which say that depression, stress and anxiety can cause lapses in concentration.

I'm feeling extremely scared right now, and my partner is at her wits end with me for this non-stop worrying. She's adamant that this is once again my anxiety as I've jumped from CSF leak, to serious bowel disorders to now Motor Neuron in a short space of time. However I'm not sure.

Any advice? Bordering on going to the doctor tomorrow, but I've visited three times over the year due to anxiety and depression and think they will just fob me off as another case of health anxiety.

Sosoworried
02-12-18, 18:26
Hi, i felt like I couldn't read this and not reply. You sound so much like I did. Ive had everytgimh wrong with me according ro my health anxiety but my most recent was I was convinced i had als, I had planned how I was going to tell my children and planned out my few months left in my head. The more I thought I had it the worse my symptoms got and I drive myself quite literally crazy. My partner tried to be understanding but it's hard when they just don't know how it feels. This was only a couple of months ago and guess what... I no longer think I have als. I went to my Dr and started taking anti anxiety tablets but the main reason I know I'm ok is because it is a rapid progressive disease and o know that even after a couple of months my symptoms wouldn't 'happen occasionally or come and go, they would rapidly get worse and I would be in real difficulty now. Now I don't obsess about it my symptoms have improved a lot also. Go to your Dr that's what they are there for, anxiety is as much an illness as anything else and it's that you need help with. I will bet you it's not als, its healty anxiety and you will look back on this in a couple of months and wish you hadn't wasted your life. Sorry for the long message I just want you to see there is light at the end of the tunnel

Fishmanpa
02-12-18, 20:31
READ THIS (https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=196071) as often as you need to!

Positive thoughts

Carys
02-12-18, 20:38
or I think I'm dropping things more often


I think this comment is very important. :yesyes: You know what you COULD be dropping things more; anxious people, who don't concentrate and aren't focused on the tasks they are doing are far more likely to have keys slip, ipads dropped and toilet roll put accidentally in the fridge.

Fishmanpa
02-12-18, 20:50
toilet roll put accidentally in the fridge.

:huh: Well... that actually might be helpful to those with hemmies or fissures! :roflmao:

Positive thoughts and Brrrrr!

MrLurcher
02-12-18, 21:31
Hi, i felt like I couldn't read this and not reply. You sound so much like I did. Ive had everytgimh wrong with me according ro my health anxiety but my most recent was I was convinced i had als, I had planned how I was going to tell my children and planned out my few months left in my head. The more I thought I had it the worse my symptoms got and I drive myself quite literally crazy. My partner tried to be understanding but it's hard when they just don't know how it feels. This was only a couple of months ago and guess what... I no longer think I have als. I went to my Dr and started taking anti anxiety tablets but the main reason I know I'm ok is because it is a rapid progressive disease and o know that even after a couple of months my symptoms wouldn't 'happen occasionally or come and go, they would rapidly get worse and I would be in real difficulty now. Now I don't obsess about it my symptoms have improved a lot also. Go to your Dr that's what they are there for, anxiety is as much an illness as anything else and it's that you need help with. I will bet you it's not als, its healty anxiety and you will look back on this in a couple of months and wish you hadn't wasted your life. Sorry for the long message I just want you to see there is light at the end of the tunnel

Many thanks for the reply. Yeah, even though I know I've been through this a few times on other medical conditions, and everything is fine in the end, being in the middle of it again is still as scary.

I was prescribed Citalopram a few weeks ago, but I've been too scared to take them. Long story, think I've posted it on here somewhere. Basically, my dad had an adverse reaction to AD's when I was 16, and eventually led to a diagnosis of bipolar. Another condition I fear! So there lies my reason for being scared of taking medication.

I also have some other symptoms, twinges and tingling in my legs and feet. So if it's not MND, I'm thinking MS, Fibromyalgia, Parkinsons or something else sinister than I can get my hands on online.

---------- Post added at 20:31 ---------- Previous post was at 20:28 ----------


(not allowed to post links) Read this as often as you need to!

Positive thoughts

Thank you for the link, I hadn't seen that thread pinned to the top. Apologies.

The main bit that's slightly reassured me is that pain is usually not a symptoms of MND starting, and I do have aches and twinges in my legs.

Naturally, I'll probably move on to another sinister condition that's causing this.

Would stress, anxiety and depression really cause tingling, pins and needles, aches etc?

Sosoworried
02-12-18, 22:09
100% anxiety causes so many physical symptoms! I have muscle twitches, aches, pains, pins and needles, and many many more, even when I'm not feeling anxious! You have been anxious for so long and it has to have a release some how. I understand your concerns with the meds especially with your experience with your dad but they are there to help you. Mine made me worse for a week but I got through it and now feel amazing. These guys on here helped me through it so listen to them and take your tablets but stay in touch with your Dr. Good luck, you will get through this, don't waste your life!!

Fishmanpa
02-12-18, 22:12
Would stress, anxiety and depression really cause tingling, pins and needles, aches etc?

Check this out! (https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/articles/symptoms) :winks:

Positive thoughts

MrLurcher
03-12-18, 15:49
Check this out! :winks:

Positive thoughts

I have a hard time convincing myself that those sort of symptoms can really be brought on by the mind. Currently have random leg pain over my right leg and mild tingling in my foot. One minute my calf feels tight, then my behind my knee feels tight.

I did have football/soccer training on Thursday, but can't how I've done something to have these sort of symptoms.

Fishmanpa
03-12-18, 16:13
I have a hard time convincing myself that those sort of symptoms can really be brought on by the mind.

Respectfully, having been reading and replying here for many years, your thought pattern and posts are quite familiar. Post a worry, get reassurance, comeback with more symptoms as your anxiety desperately tries to keep your fear alive. Even after a medical professional gives you the all clear, many ask strangers on the internet for more reassurance.

You're on an anxiety forum in the HA section so deep down you know this is all in your mind :whistles: The key is getting help with the illness you do have. Treating that also treats the symptoms associated with it.

Positive thoughts

MrLurcher
04-12-18, 14:29
Respectfully, having been reading and replying here for many years, your thought pattern and posts are quite familiar. Post a worry, get reassurance, comeback with more symptoms as your anxiety desperately tries to keep your fear alive. Even after a medical professional gives you the all clear, many ask strangers on the internet for more reassurance.

You're on an anxiety forum in the HA section so deep down you know this is all in your mind :whistles: The key is getting help with the illness you do have. Treating that also treats the symptoms associated with it.

Positive thoughts

Around 5% of me believes that this is all just anxiety.

Today again, I have slight tingling in my foot and I have aching around my thigh muscles, and just a general heavy/weird feeling.

Apart from MS, other things it could be are Peripheral Neuropathy or Artery Disease.

If this was purely anxiety based symptoms, surely they wouldn't last this long, and I actually don't feel that anxious right now.

I mentioned in my first post how I have been depressed / severely anxious for nearly 12 months. What if that was actually caused by a medical condition like MS?

---------- Post added at 13:29 ---------- Previous post was at 10:17 ----------

I have just remembered something else, around 8 years ago I experienced a Scintillating Scotoma, which has come and gone over the years - maybe half a dozen episodes?

Again, this points to MS, as vision problems are one of the most common symptoms.

Also, occasionally, since I was 18, I sometimes get a pulling/burning sensation when I turn my head sharply to the right. I've always thought it was perhaps a trapped/pinched nerve, but MS makes more sense now after reading up symptoms on spasms etc.

Despite my counsellor challenging me last night to sit with this till next week, I think I'm going to have to visit a doctor this week. All the symptoms are adding up at an alarming rate now.

I have had eye tests since getting the Scotomas, so surely if there was MS damage, that would show up on the eye health test?

Struggling to keep it together right now. I promised my partner I'd stop this worrying today, but all this evidence is overwhelming.

Colicab85
04-12-18, 17:45
Been there...Done that. Bought the T-shirt! NEXT!

No seriously, i was exactly where you are about 2 years ago. Terrified, crying constantly. Tingly, vibrating, twitching, perceived weakness, pain.

So worried I had MND. Definitely didn't though did I? My abject terror was causing all of the symptoms, truthfully. They have ALL gone.

Yours will too

MrLurcher
05-12-18, 13:04
I'm in full blown MS worry now. Tingling still coming and going in foot heel and leg stil suffering from random aches. It disappeared over night, but starting coming back around 9am.

What are the chances a GP will refer me to a Neurologist? I've seen it's standard practice now, but I know I will freak out completely if I do get referred.

Desperately worried this isn't MS, although a lot of symptoms are pointing towards it :-(

MrLurcher
05-12-18, 13:08
Has anyone experienced tingling and aches which have lasted a while? Even when you don't feel stressed/anxious.

Verging on going to see a doctor this week as nearly had a week of a tingly foot and random aches over my right leg. Has to be MS or something, I don't feel that panic right now, just a deep dread.

Fishmanpa
05-12-18, 17:25
READ THIS (https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=42556) as many times as you need to. And THIS TOO! (https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=196071)

Positive thoughts

venusbluejeans
05-12-18, 22:56
This is just a courtesy reply to let you know that your thread was merged with another of your threads.

Please when posting on similar topics add it onto your previous post rather than starting a new one.

It is nothing personal it is just to make it easier for people to follow your story and to give you advice as a whole.

Emmz

Colicab85
06-12-18, 11:42
Stop ruining your life.

You do not have ALS or MS. You have anxiety, which is causing the symptoms. I mean it.

MrLurcher
06-12-18, 13:42
Stop ruining your life.

You do not have ALS or MS. You have anxiety, which is causing the symptoms. I mean it.

Yeah I agree, whether it is physical or mental my life is being ruined.

I dropped my wallet while paying in a shop this morning and immediately went into panic, which my partner got very angry over.

She's now issued me an ultimatum........

FWIW, I rang the doctor yesterday, he knows about my depression and anxiety, and he suggested my leg symptoms are probably a pinched nerve or mild sciatica and told me not to worry. If it's still there in a few weeks to ring him.

My foot tingling has stopped, but now I feel like the bottom of my foot is slightly burning, and my thigh and calf muscles feel stuff. However my right hand feels a bit odd today.

Carys
06-12-18, 17:25
I dropped my wallet while paying in a shop this morning and immediately went into panic


I dropped my phone twice this morning, one time after the other, picked it up dropped it again immediately. I also slammed the fridge door into my head (no idea how, not concentrating!), toppled on a stool putting Xmas decs up and have dropped assorted other items. People drop things, have minor accidents every single day...you are putting FAR too much weight on this dropping things issue.

MrLurcher
07-12-18, 10:53
I dropped my phone twice this morning, one time after the other, picked it up dropped it again immediately. I also slammed the fridge door into my head (no idea how, not concentrating!), toppled on a stool putting Xmas decs up and have dropped assorted other items. People drop things, have minor accidents every single day...you are putting FAR too much weight on this dropping things issue.

Yeah, maybe I am, I wouldn't be too fussed if it wasn't coupled with other symptoms of a serious disorder.

My right leg muscles still feels stiff with a burning sensation at the bottom of my foot at times, and other times cold.

It's could be MS or Peripheral Neuropathy disease based on the symptoms. PN seems pretty likely right now after looking up symptoms - dear god :-(

I'm even thinking if it's my heart. Because I've been stressed out recently, I wonder if I've done damage to my heart/arteries/nerves.

My partner thinks I'm 'very unwell' with anxiety and stress, and this is all in my mind. I have have anxious stomachs before and get heart flutters, but nothing like these leg and feet symptoms.

I only spoke to the doctor Wednesday, who told me to sit tight for a few weeks but I'm frightened to death right now. I need to find out now what's going on.

Does anyone know if Peripheral Neuropathy comes and goes? Is it constant?

Colicab85
07-12-18, 13:53
Your partner is right.

What seems more likely over PN, ALS or MS is anxiety and depression.

Stop trying to convince yourself that what everyone in the world has from time to time (dropping stuff, tingly, heat patches etc) means you have a debilitating illness.

I know its hard but you have to try and allow yourself to consider that you have a mental health condition and what you're doing is making it worse.

MrLurcher
07-12-18, 14:13
Your partner is right.

What seems more likely over PN, ALS or MS is anxiety and depression.

Stop trying to convince yourself that what everyone in the world has from time to time (dropping stuff, tingly, heat patches etc) means you have a debilitating illness.

I know its hard but you have to try and allow yourself to consider that you have a mental health condition and what you're doing is making it worse.

I fully admit that I suffer from anxiety, especially health anxiety. But these symptoms are pretty consistent and nothing like I've had before. It's been a week now, and my symptoms have gone from tingling to burning, including aches and pains. There's no let up. I don't think I feel that anxious either, which doesn't make sense.

Fishmanpa
07-12-18, 15:09
There's no let up. I don't think I feel that anxious either, which doesn't make sense.

You're wound tighter than a '59 humbucker! Also, as I stated, your posting pattern is that of someone deep in the rabbit hole.


Anxiety is like a campfire. When you're in the midst of a spiral the fire is burning bright and hot. When the flames die down, there's still a bed of red hot coals burning away just waiting for some more fuel. You may not feel anxious but your body is still on high alert and has a bed of hot anxiety coals inside just waiting to flare up. Just like a campfire, the hot coals of anxiety take a long time to finally go out.

I also stand by my statement that all this is anxiety. Ohhh peripheral neuropathy? I have it in my feet from chemo. My feet are essentially numb and tingly 24/7. I also get "stabbies" which is like being stabbed with an ice pick. Extremely painful! I take meds to counter the symptoms. For me it's just part of the "new normal" as a survivor.

Listen to your partner. Get help for the illness you do have. I have issues that can put me 6 feet under. You have an illness that's doing to you above ground :(

Positive thoughts

MrLurcher
08-12-18, 14:55
Thanks for the advice Fishmanpa, and I appreciate your patience.

Unfortunately i have had to make an appt with an out of hours doctor. My leg felt very abnormal and weak yesterday and isnt much better today. He said over the phone that with my symptoms I should have made an appt this week. Nervous wreck right now.

Fishmanpa
08-12-18, 15:15
Thanks for the advice Fishmanpa, and I appreciate your patience.

Unfortunately i have had to make an appt with an out of hours doctor. My leg felt very abnormal and weak yesterday and isnt much better today. He said over the phone that with my symptoms I should have made an appt this week. Nervous wreck right now.

This is what gets to me... My wife and I have real physical issues and we can barely afford to see the doctor for normal and needed routine checks and tests even with insurance and you're running off to an out of hours doctor that typically cost more for an imaginary illness :lac:

Good luck and as always...

Positive thoughts

MrLurcher
12-12-18, 17:30
This is what gets to me... My wife and I have real physical issues and we can barely afford to see the doctor for normal and needed routine checks and tests even with insurance and you're running off to an out of hours doctor that typically cost more for an imaginary illness :lac:

Good luck and as always...

Positive thoughts

It's difficult to comprehend a life without the NHS to be honest. It's a fantastic, albeit wrongly used service at times. Even though my grandmother went gravely ill after a routine operation, which was mainly caused by some negligence due to short staffing, I still don't blame the service itself - we're lucky to have it.

My appointment went ok, and it was a paramedic I saw rather than a doctor. after a few physical tests, she determined it was sciatica - probably caused by muscle inflammation. She ran this past the doctor outside the appointment room and he was happy with that diagnosis.

I have since felt better and the symptoms have subsided a little, but today after a stressful hour my legs have felt very weak and I feel exhausted. Once again I'm back on the MS trail. I may visit a doc again tomorrow, I'm just feeling very uneasy about the whole thing. What if it is MS, what if I have a slipped disk, spinal disease. MS symptoms come and go so that seems the likely thing at the moment.

---------- Post added at 16:30 ---------- Previous post was at 14:25 ----------

Oh ****. I've just read up sciatica and long term nerve compression damage - completely freaked me out again.

Says on a lot of websites that anyone who has weakness should seek medical help immediately! Why wasn't I referred for scans when I saw the paramedic / doc and explained my symptoms.

Back to the docs tomorrow.

Colicab85
14-12-18, 14:57
Because you sought medical help by seeing the doctor and they, with their extensively training and experience, deemed it to be nothing to worry about?

MrLurcher
15-12-18, 23:13
Ive been having overactive bladder symptoms since Thursday, which is another issue in MS. Pee'd nearly 20 times today. Petrified right now, its all adding up to MS between all my recent symptoms. Im terrified and so upset.

MrLurcher
17-12-18, 14:48
Seeing a doc today at 2.50. I know he can't say if I have MS or not, but Im hoping for some reassurance or a quick referall to a neuro. Im not going to be able to enjoy xmas feeling like this and having these symptoms.

MrLurcher
17-12-18, 20:03
Well, I saw one of the older docs, he's a bit old-school.

I'm not too happy. I told him my health anxiety history and my recent leg problem, along with the current bladder problem and he said 'it looks like it may be all in you mind, and have you started the tablets?'. It's on my notes about my anxiety and depression.

I said no, and asked can I be referred to a Neuro because of these current MS symptoms. And he said he doesn't see the need to and to trust his judgement.
He was nice about it, and asked are we going to refer me to a urologist and a bowel specialist as well (my crohns / bowel cancer fears).

I'm quite annoyed, I was hoping to at least be on the path to a proper diagnosis or concrete reassurance today. i'm still peeing a lot more regularly than normal and it's upsetting, I've even began to time how many hours there are between pee's so I know what's normal for me and not.

jray23
17-12-18, 20:29
I believe he did give you a proper diagnosis. Anxiety can absolutely cause your issues and it can absolutely cause prolonged symptoms. Like you, I am no stranger to a history of "alleged" diseases and problems. Like you, I've had none of them.

I've been experiencing a chronic balance disorder (probably vestibular migraine) all year. When it first started, for 3 months I was experiencing a lot of tinglings, pins, etc like you describe. MS was even considered a possibility (though unlikely) by my doctor (and obviously by me and Google). At one point I was even hoping it was MS rather than something worse! The point is that while my balance issue remains, as soon as I had all the tests, all the "all-clears", for anything serious, and my anxiety over the problem mostly faded, and at the same time so did all the tingles and pins etc.

Now because I'm so familiar with the HA pattern, I know what you'll say. "But what about X, Y, Z, and Pee?" What about it? You're "symptom checking". You're going to find something that seems weird and latch onto it. It's exactly what HA does. You're timing the time between urinating and counting how many times you've gone. That's not a behavior of a rational person. The best thing you can do for yourself right now is to resolve to stop "checking in" with your symptoms. As far as medication and what not, figure that out with tour doctor and therapist when you can. But for now, today, just stop checking in with your bodily sensations.

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MrLurcher
17-12-18, 21:05
I believe he did give you a proper diagnosis. Anxiety can absolutely cause your issues and it can absolutely cause prolonged symptoms. Like you, I am no stranger to a history of "alleged" diseases and problems. Like you, I've had none of them.

I've been experiencing a chronic balance disorder (probably vestibular migraine) all year. When it first started, for 3 months I was experiencing a lot of tinglings, pins, etc like you describe. MS was even considered a possibility (though unlikely) by my doctor (and obviously by me and Google). At one point I was even hoping it was MS rather than something worse! The point is that while my balance issue remains, as soon as I had all the tests, all the "all-clears", for anything serious, and my anxiety over the problem mostly faded, and at the same time so did all the tingles and pins etc.

Now because I'm so familiar with the HA pattern, I know what you'll say. "But what about X, Y, Z, and Pee?" What about it? You're "symptom checking". You're going to find something that seems weird and latch onto it. It's exactly what HA does. You're timing the time between urinating and counting how many times you've gone. That's not a behavior of a rational person. The best thing you can do for yourself right now is to resolve to stop "checking in" with your symptoms. As far as medication and what not, figure that out with tour doctor and therapist when you can. But for now, today, just stop checking in with your bodily sensations.

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Thanks for your reply, and sorry to hear about your HA struggles as well. There have been things in the past whhere I've been like 'yeah this is frightening, but c'mon this is pretty silly'. However this MS worry is topping the lot at the moment, it just seems too much of a coincidence these symptoms happening all at once.

The only other issue which I forgot to bring up was Prostate. As issues with the prostate can cause urine troubles, and a part of me wants to go back to investigate that as well.

My partner think's I'm 'really quite unwell', especially when I went this morning from freaking out about diabetes (my mother in law tested me, sugar all fine), to then MS again to now thinking about serious prostate conditions.

jray23
17-12-18, 22:27
As you do know deep down, since you're experienced with HA, jumping around from disease to disease is another common pattern.

In all areas, our brains are wired to seek out evidence that fits our pre-determined conclusions. It doesn't react well if we're incongruent. It's why, for example, two completely normal people can look at the same news story and have two completely different assumptions because they view it through the lens of their preset political platform and rationalize the story as evidence to back up their platform. It especially takes root when irrational thoughts are at play - such as a guy approaching an attractive woman and she isn't interested - if his preset mind was that he is ugly and therefore not desirable, he will blame that as the cause for rejection - even though it could have been for a wild variety of reasons, including her even being attracted to him but just too busy at the moment. Then his unfortunate self-deprecating thought pattern continues.

The same thing happens with HA. We come to the conclusion that we are seriously ill, probably because we felt some unexplained symptoms, and THEN our brain goes off in search of evidence to back up that theory. That's why Google is such a problem for us. It makes it extremely easy for us to find "evidence". So now if you have reasonably countered your HA brain and say "well it can't be that", your HA brain just continues the process of searching for evidence and finds other "possible" diseases. Eventually it will find one that just seems "too good to be true".

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Fishmanpa
17-12-18, 22:35
Well, I saw one of the older docs, he's a bit old-school.

I'm not too happy. I told him my health anxiety history and my recent leg problem, along with the current bladder problem and he said 'it looks like it may be all in you mind, and have you started the tablets?'. It's on my notes about my anxiety and depression.

I said no, and asked can I be referred to a Neuro because of these current MS symptoms. And he said he doesn't see the need to and to trust his judgement.
He was nice about it, and asked are we going to refer me to a urologist and a bowel specialist as well (my crohns / bowel cancer fears).

I'm quite annoyed, I was hoping to at least be on the path to a proper diagnosis or concrete reassurance today. i'm still peeing a lot more regularly than normal and it's upsetting, I've even began to time how many hours there are between pee's so I know what's normal for me and not.

I wish more GPs were this blunt and honest concerning mental health. He's spot on! Treat your real illness (anxiety) and you treat the symptoms it causes.

The positive which you're failing to see is that there's nothing physically wrong with you! You can now enjoy the holidays knowing that :D

Positive thoughts

MrLurcher
18-12-18, 10:07
I wish more GPs were this blunt and honest concerning mental health. He's spot on! Treat your real illness (anxiety) and you treat the symptoms it causes.

The positive which you're failing to see is that there's nothing physically wrong with you! You can now enjoy the holidays knowing that :D

Positive thoughts

Thanks for the message again. Really struggling today. The weather was terrible last night here, and woke up every hour hearing things rattling outside and things getting blown about. Getting into a panic if the roof would blow off etc

Regarding that 'there's nothing physically wrong with me', I'm challenging that because a GP cannot say there's nothing wrong when he can't see inside my brain and body.

I know I may sound like a stuck record, but I'm struggling right now. Feel 'out of it' and like a zombie. Dragged myself into work, and I just want to sleep :-(

I don't want to take the meds still, and my partner and family are getting really frustrated saying I have to.

BlueIris
18-12-18, 10:11
For what it's worth, I started on citalopram a couple of months ago - I avoided medication for decades after a nasty run-in with paroxetine.

Eventually I couldn't take the HA any more and went to the GP in desperation. I was nervous about the citalopram (and I know it affects everybody differently) but for me, it's been the difference between being nonfunctional and having some semblance of a life. The first week or so wasn't easy - I got horrendous nausea and I still get tired easily - but setbacks that would have floored me for weeks are now over with in a matter of hours or a day or two.

I don't think you have anything to lose by giving it a shot.

jray23
18-12-18, 15:13
Thanks for the message again. Really struggling today. The weather was terrible last night here, and woke up every hour hearing things rattling outside and things getting blown about. Getting into a panic if the roof would blow off etc

Regarding that 'there's nothing physically wrong with me', I'm challenging that because a GP cannot say there's nothing wrong when he can't see inside my brain and body.


Perhaps instead of challenging your trained medical professional you should challenge your fears.



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MrLurcher
18-12-18, 15:23
For what it's worth, I started on citalopram a couple of months ago - I avoided medication for decades after a nasty run-in with paroxetine.

Eventually I couldn't take the HA any more and went to the GP in desperation. I was nervous about the citalopram (and I know it affects everybody differently) but for me, it's been the difference between being nonfunctional and having some semblance of a life. The first week or so wasn't easy - I got horrendous nausea and I still get tired easily - but setbacks that would have floored me for weeks are now over with in a matter of hours or a day or two.

I don't think you have anything to lose by giving it a shot.

Thanks for the helpful message.

I think it's such a bad time with xmas around the corner, worried I may feel dreadful on xmas day, worried I may develop bipolar from them (my dad is).

The fact that I need to take them is causing me a lot of stress right now, I'm almost hyperventilating with the thought of taking them. It's ridiculous.

BlueIris
18-12-18, 15:27
So why not just down one quickly with a glass of water? Believe me, any side effects you suffer will still be a piece of cake compared to the anxiety.

MrLurcher
18-12-18, 21:06
Just put the kids to bed and rang 111. I was in a panic and pee'd 5 times in the space of 20 mins earlier. And whenever I drink a glass of water, I get an urge to urinate within 5 minutes. That's not normal is it? Anxiety wouldnt make you pee that frequently.

Waiting for a ring back from the docs, does anyone know if I could get like x-rays tonight at A&E?

To be honest, again it looks like MS. Sciatica type nerve symptoms and now bladder out of control, why is this not making sense to doctors?!

I'm in a state, I told myself I was going to be strong tonight.......didn't work :-(

---------- Post added at 20:06 ---------- Previous post was at 19:50 ----------

Just rang back, she again said it's your anxiety, and very unlikely to be MS! Then the line cut off midway through conversation and she hasn't rang back! I wish I didn't mention about my health anxiety, she would have taken me seriously then!

I've looked at my local private hospital Neuro consultant, and it's £275 for a consultation. I think I may need to go down that route, I have no choice atm.

jray23
18-12-18, 22:15
I think it's such a bad time with xmas around the corner, worried I may feel dreadful on xmas day, worried I may develop bipolar from them (my dad is).

The fact that I need to take them is causing me a lot of stress right now, I'm almost hyperventilating with the thought of taking them. It's ridiculous.


The weather was terrible last night here, and woke up every hour hearing things rattling outside and things getting blown about. Getting into a panic if the roof would blow off etc

You're openly admitting that you are feeling stress from multiple angles. So why does it seem so hard to believe that this is from anxiety? You are so quite clearly extremely anxious and in prime condition to experience health anxiety at a high level.

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And it demonstrates exactly what I mentioned earlier about the brain not being able to accept incongruency. It is looking for such validation and evidence to backup or prove itself that you've decided that you are willing to reject the recommendation of medical professionals and pay a large sum of money to "keep the hope alive" that you have the illness! But where does it stop? Do you believe the next medical professional? Does it continue until you end up like Hypo and have numerous ER visits and owe payment plans from paying out of pocket?

MrLurcher
18-12-18, 23:23
You're openly admitting that you are feeling stress from multiple angles. So why does it seem so hard to believe that this is from anxiety? You are so quite clearly extremely anxious and in prime condition to experience health anxiety at a high level.

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And it demonstrates exactly what I mentioned earlier about the brain not being able to accept incongruency. It is looking for such validation and evidence to backup or prove itself that you've decided that you are willing to reject the recommendation of medical professionals and pay a large sum of money to "keep the hope alive" that you have the illness! But where does it stop? Do you believe the next medical professional? Does it continue until you end up like Hypo and have numerous ER visits and owe payment plans from paying out of pocket?

Yeah I'm feeling stress and anxiety from everything right now, from my house, money, work, family and health. It's been going on for nearly 10 months. Worrying from one subject to the next, a roof leak, a car problem, daughters' glasses prescription, dog injury......it's been relentless.

I guess in my head, a GP cannot say whether or not I have MS, as that can only be diagnosed by a Neuro using machines, so until I get that actual factual reassurance I'm not sure how I can accept there's nothing wrong. If it isn't MS, then this urinary problem must be a Kidney problem, or even I've actual caused damage to my bladder muscles by focusing so much on them.

Either I'm seriously ill with anxiety, or I'm right. I'm in the latter camp mostly.

jray23
19-12-18, 00:05
Indeed. I can only speak from my own experience that in times of stress the HA beast is much more likely to be a problem than at times of "peace".

You are right that while a GP can with reasonability suspect if MS is a problem or not, that they can't know for 100% sure until testing is done. No one can really be absolutely certain of complete health validated by clear test results and asking ourselves and our doctors to meet that requirement is quite unreasonable. Perhaps this could be a little too far for you at an early stage of trying to handle anxiety, but perhaps it might be helpful to ask yourself "why" you must be absolutely sure that you don't have disease to be calm as opposed to being able to accept reasonable probability.

For an alternate example, I doubt you have a problem with getting in a car to go drive somewhere each day, yet you can never have absolute certainty that you will arrive safely, only reasonable probability. We need to be able to accept those levels of uncertainty with our health as well.

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MrLurcher
19-12-18, 15:52
Thanks for the reply jray, was in a right panic last night. Before I went to sleep i kept having sensations of needing to pee, however I fell sleep and slept for 7 hours without waking up. However upon waking up I had a sensation to pee and went straight away, and the night before I woke up at 4.30 with an urge to go. That can't be anxiety can it?

Today I pee'd at 7am and started having urges at 10am (I hadn't drunk anything either), but I managed to distract myself a little bit until 1pm and then had to go, which was a big pee, but since going then I've had urges all the time and like a tickling feeling in the urethra lower abdomen.

Really stressed out with it right now, and it's on my mind from waking to going to bed. Problem now is I'm labelled as a hypochondriac so no doc will take me seriously.

jray23
19-12-18, 15:59
however I fell sleep and slept for 7 hours without waking up. However upon waking up I had a sensation to pee and went straight away, and the night before I woke up at 4.30 with an urge to go. That can't be anxiety can it?

Today I pee'd at 7am and started having urges at 10am (I hadn't drunk anything either), but I managed to distract myself a little bit until 1pm

This all sounds like a normal day to me and probably normal for most people.

Additionally, if you're thinking about peeing all of the time, what kind of sensation do you think you're going to have????


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MrLurcher
19-12-18, 18:07
This all sounds like a normal day to me and probably normal for most people.

Additionally, if you're thinking about peeing all of the time, what kind of sensation do you think you're going to have????


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Fair enough.

I just want physical illnesses ruled out properly before taking medication to treat my anxiety and depression.

---------- Post added at 17:07 ---------- Previous post was at 15:18 ----------

And on cue, the burning feeling at the bottom heel of my foot has started again today, along with my tinnitus being louder than usual......both MS symptoms, again.

MrLurcher
20-12-18, 10:28
Felt ok before going to bed last night, but woke up at 1am and my right arm felt very weak. What the f*ck is going on. I told my partner this morning and she just flipped and told me to start my tablets. I'm feeling so lonely right now.

So far symptom count has been:

Nerve / sciatic problems in right leg, went away after a week.

Dropping things with right hand sometimes.

Right hand and arm feeling weak, woken up a few nights with this and hand tingling.

Bladder / urinary issues.

Burning feeling bottom of right foot where heel is.

Trouble getting words out sometimes when speaking.

Very, very tired.

Should I go back to the doctor?

BlueIris
20-12-18, 10:35
If you went to your doctor, would you believe what they told you?

MrLurcher
20-12-18, 10:41
If you went to your doctor, would you believe what they told you?

If I thought they took me seriously, then perhaps yes.

Maybe If I didn't tell them I suffer from anxiety they'd listen and possibly refer me to a specialist. I have no doubt that someone who didn't have anxiety would get referred with those symptoms.

BlueIris
20-12-18, 10:44
See, and now you're attaching conditions to it. If you're only going to be satisfied with one possible option then it's not worth going unless you ask them outright for a referral.

MrLurcher
20-12-18, 10:59
See, and now you're attaching conditions to it. If you're only going to be satisfied with one possible option then it's not worth going unless you ask them outright for a referral.

What do you mean attaching conditions?

I did ask them on Monday can I be referred and the doc said he's not going to because it'll only fuel my cycle of worrying and reassurance. I have only asked 3 doctors about MS, is that excessive?

BlueIris
20-12-18, 11:02
Honestly? I think so, yes. You've been reassured repeatedly, so it's probably time to accept your anxiety is the real problem here.

MrLurcher
20-12-18, 11:16
Honestly? I think so, yes. You've been reassured repeatedly, so it's probably time to accept your anxiety is the real problem here.

You may be right. However what about waking in the night with a weak arm and tremor? I wasn't even lying on it.

Surely if you went to bed, feeling ok, you wouldn't just wake up in the night feeling anxiety symptoms.

BlueIris
20-12-18, 11:18
I do, definitely. Happens to me all the time. Either I wake up with them, or I wake up and they kick in within a few seconds.

That said, I'm not a doctor. The three doctors who've told you you don't have MS are doctors.

jray23
20-12-18, 15:22
Maybe If I didn't tell them I suffer from anxiety they'd listen and possibly refer me to a specialist.

Why would you want to purposely hide important information about your health to a doctor? That's ludicrous.

This thought is another example of your brain trying to create "evidence" out of thin air to support its own pre-determined conclusion.

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pulisa
20-12-18, 15:26
A good doctor will only refer you if there is a clinical need to investigate symptoms.

MrLurcher
20-12-18, 17:10
Why would you want to purposely hide important information about your health to a doctor? That's ludicrous.

This thought is another example of your brain trying to create "evidence" out of thin air to support its own pre-determined conclusion.

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Well what if something was seriously wrong with me one day, and the doctors refused to do anything about it because of my history of anxiety and take it as a 'the boy who cried wolf' type of attitude.

Another weird symptom I have noticed today is bubbly urine.....which could be a sign of kidney disease! Would something like that have been picked up by the simple urine test I had at the docs??

Fishmanpa
20-12-18, 17:49
Another weird symptom I have noticed today is bubbly urine.....which could be a sign of kidney disease! Would something like that have been picked up by the simple urine test I had at the docs??

Your anxiety is really reaching Mr. L. It's totally normal for urine to cause bubbles when it hits the water. Next time you go, sit down. Bet you won't see any bubbles :winks:

Positive thoughts

MrLurcher
20-12-18, 17:50
My right hand has been trembling all day today as well :-(

Why can;t I just make myself take the medication.......

BlueIris
20-12-18, 17:53
Seriously, just take the meds. I promise, they're better than feeling terrified like this.

jray23
20-12-18, 19:49
Well what if something was seriously wrong with me one day, and the doctors refused to do anything about it because of my history of anxiety and take it as a 'the boy who cried wolf' type of attitude.

This is yet another common thought that we've all wrestled with. Instead ask yourself what if nothing was seriously wrong and you ended up being miserable and wasting your life away? What's more likely? And which outcome is worse?

Basically everything you say screams that anxiety is the problem. Your doctor was absolutely correct. Your next step is to accept that.

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MrLurcher
21-12-18, 16:05
Still having weird urinary symptoms, feels like theres urine in my urethra and im om edge about it, checking I havent leaked all the time. Also feels like theres pressure in my lower abdomen whem bending over. My partners begging me not to ring the doc. This cant be an anxiety sensation

jray23
21-12-18, 16:55
This cant be an anxiety sensation

Why not? There was once a construction worker who had a big nail go through his boot, and he ran to the hospital in agony. He was in so much pain he had to be sedated so they could take care of the injury. So then they took his boot off and ... the nail had gone between his toes and had not even touched him! No injury! Look it up it's a true story.

The brain is powerful, it can feel whatever it thinks it should feel! You must challenge your thought pattern! It's the only way. If you keep going back to the doctor, even if this fear subsides, you'll just keep repeating this in the future over some other illness just as you have been doing in the past.

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MrLurcher
23-12-18, 20:26
HELP!

I've just had an episode of scintillating scotoma, which I've read can be a symptom of MS. I've had it a few times before over the past 8 years, however now I have a headache and what I think is a dull ache in my eye - OPTICAL NEURITIS.

I'm going to head down a&e, don't have another choice at the moment.

Either I have got MS, which is looking more likely by the minute, or I'm spoiling xmas for myself and everyone around me.

F*CK.

BlueIris
23-12-18, 21:04
...You do know you just had a migraine, right?

You get the sparkly lights and then the head/eye pain. Obviously, not a doctor here, but this time last year I was getting these up to twice a day.

MrLurcher
23-12-18, 21:34
...You do know you just had a migraine, right?

You get the sparkly lights and then the head/eye pain. Obviously, not a doctor here, but this time last year I was getting these up to twice a day.

Yes, I sort of understand it's a migraine. But I'm getting so many symptoms of nerve damage now it's out of hand:

Leg still hurts
Weird tingling sensation in bottom of heel.
Bladder issues - only had to have two pee's until 3pm today, but been half a dozen times in the past two hours.

Sick and tired of not knowing what's going on. Sat for two hours with the tablet in my hand yesterday, but could not take it :-(

melfish
23-12-18, 21:40
Dude, that's a classic migraine with aura. It has naught to do with MS. Optic neuritis does not present like that. It's the optic nerve that is affected, not the occipital lobe, and it causes severe eye pain on movement and an overall reduction is vision: dimmed colour and blurriness. Stopped connecting dots when there are none

jray23
23-12-18, 21:45
Hm, if you Google "scintillating scotoma" (which you no doubt must have at some point to know that term, I sure hadn't), nearly all the results mention "migraine" in their headline/opening text that shows on the results page, and only one mentioned MS. Remember what I said about our brain looking for congruency???

That said I'm certain that any visual/optical migraine is quite scary so it's perfectly normal if you're freaking out from that. I have vestibular (balance) migraine which was also scary until understood, but luckily have not experienced any optical disturbances!

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(P.S. - the associated anxiety I had with mine at first cause similar foot tingles to what you describe...not that I think reassurance is what you need, but just sayin')

Double PS - increased anxiety/stress is a common migraine trigger...

MrLurcher
23-12-18, 22:49
Hm, if you Google "scintillating scotoma" (which you no doubt must have at some point to know that term, I sure hadn't), nearly all the results mention "migraine" in their headline/opening text that shows on the results page, and only one mentioned MS. Remember what I said about our brain looking for congruency???

That said I'm certain that any visual/optical migraine is quite scary so it's perfectly normal if you're freaking out from that. I have vestibular (balance) migraine which was also scary until understood, but luckily have not experienced any optical disturbances!

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(P.S. - the associated anxiety I had with mine at first cause similar foot tingles to what you describe...not that I think reassurance is what you need, but just sayin')

Double PS - increased anxiety/stress is a common migraine trigger...

I knew it was a scintillating scotoma, because I visited my optician when i happened the first time. He said it was benign and just happens. Yes it was scary, even more so because I haven't had a headache with it before, and probably cos my MS worries.

Also last night, I started testing sensitivity in my toes, and my little toe on my right foot is much less sensitive than all the others. I could squeeze the tip of the toe and feel no pain, whereas I could feel pain on all the others....

It's looking pretty ominous tbh, I'm going to see my doc tomorrow and demand a Neuro referral.

I'm feeling sick that this is happening just before xmas, I used to love this time of year and it's all been taken away from me.

Has there anyone on this board been right when worrying about a serious illness/disease? I think I may be in that group.

jojo2316
23-12-18, 22:55
Has there anyone on this board been right when worrying about a serious illness/disease? I think I may be in that group.

To be fair we all - ALWAYS - think we are in that group! :doh:
We are, after all, members of an anxiety forum. It does what it says on the tin!

My big toe on my right foot has much less sensation than the others, and I have an ache round my right eye, and some facial pain, and a patch on my left finger is a bit numb..... maybe I have MS too.... :whistles:

MrLurcher
23-12-18, 23:10
To be fair we all - ALWAYS - think we are in that group! :doh:
We are, after all, members of an anxiety forum. It does what it says on the tin!

My big toe on my right foot has much less sensation than the others, and I have an ache round my right eye, and some facial pain, and a patch on my left finger is a bit numb..... maybe I have MS too.... :whistles:

Lol at the first sentence.

How are you coping at the moment??

I just spoke to an out of hours GP, I told him about the eye and my other problems and he said he wouldn't be interested in pushing for a Neuro referral anytime soon with my symptoms. Why can't I get reassurance from what he says. Probably a sign of how bad I've become. :weep:

jojo2316
23-12-18, 23:15
Lol at the first sentence.

How are you coping at the moment??

I just spoke to an out of hours GP, I told him about the eye and my other problems and he said he wouldn't be interested in pushing for a Neuro referral anytime soon with my symptoms. Why can't I get reassurance from what he says. Probably a sign of how bad I've become. :weep:

Yes. Your last sentence is probably true. I didnít make up the symptoms I just listed above, Iíve just never worried about them before. I expect everyone has stuff like that if they think about it....

---------- Post added at 22:15 ---------- Previous post was at 22:14 ----------

(I’m not sure why MS has never worried me especially- perhaps because it’s not deadly enough!!!)

MrLurcher
23-12-18, 23:18
Yes. Your last sentence is probably true. I didnít make up the symptoms I just listed above, Iíve just never worried about them before. I expect everyone has stuff like that if they think about it....

---------- Post added at 22:15 ---------- Previous post was at 22:14 ----------

(Iím not sure why MS has never worried me especially- perhaps because itís not deadly enough!!!)

I know a few people with MS, and growing up there was a lady in the village who had it - always walked with a stick, and I remember my mum saying how unfortunate she was because she developed MS.

Also a friend who I work with, his mother is severely disabled with MS. More or less housebound, carers, wheelchair etc. Frightening and sad to see.

jojo2316
23-12-18, 23:21
True. But I also know several women with MS (and it IS mostly women), who lead pretty normal lives. I’m not belittling their problems- the fatigue particularly- but they still enjoy their lives.

MrLurcher
23-12-18, 23:24
True. But I also know several women with MS (and it IS mostly women), who lead pretty normal lives. Iím not belittling their problems- the fatigue particularly- but they still enjoy their lives.

Yes I agree as well, a friend of my dad has MS and you'd never know by looking at him. He looks very tired some days. He even helped move heavy speakers and amps the night before at a gig, which was surprising.

Do you take meds? (Not sure if you've mentioned it before)

jojo2316
23-12-18, 23:27
Yes, sertraline. It helps. When I’m good I sometimes try to come off it, but my anxiety explodes again so...... it’s been 6 years and counting.

MrLurcher
23-12-18, 23:31
Yes, sertraline. It helps. When I’m good I sometimes try to come off it, but my anxiety explodes again so...... it’s been 6 years and counting.

Ok, does it help with obsessiveness? Googling? Body-checking etc? One doc was going to prescribe me sertraline back in the summer. But I opted for CBT first, which didn't help (I probably needed the meds as well back then). Since then I've been on a downward spiral. That doc left the practice and my current doc has prescribed citalopram. Why would they prescribe different meds?

jojo2316
23-12-18, 23:35
They are very similar actually. Both SSRI’s. They both increase seratonin levels. I’ve taken citalopram before too and didn’t notice the difference

MrLurcher
06-01-19, 19:21
I thought I was over the MS fear, but it's back.

Past few days Ive been having like chills/tingling sensations/goosebumps coming on over my right leg, head, and parts of my face.

More classic MS symptoms, and coming on when my anxiety has died down. It doesnt make sense from an anxiety point if view.

Ive also had a few moments of feeling off balance, which has been scary.

Trying to ignore them, but I havent been feeling that anxious, so to label these as possibly MS symptoms is quite plausible.

Not sure if I should really push for a Neuro referrall, it's all just too much of a coincident now. I dont feel that freaked out by it, but almost accepting that this could very well be MS with all these symptoms.

jray23
06-01-19, 20:50
Anxiety that has built up over months or even years doesn't typically just die down in a few days. Even if your mind feels calm your body will take awhile to catchup and relax after all the stress it's been put through.

Chills, tingling, etc and feeling of imbalance may or may not be "classic MS symptoms" but I do know that they are classic anxiety symptoms.

Fwiw I had a chills/goosebumps/tingling sensation in my face, leg, and head (and also sometimes hands/feet) for a few months last year. I still get it in my head and foot from time to time. I've also felt/been off-balance every day for 11 months now. I was thrown back into a world of health anxiety that I had thought I'd beaten when that started too, but after all the exams and specialists, I do not have MS (or anything else serious). So what you're assuming to be fact is not a fact.

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MrLurcher
09-01-19, 01:16
I thought my physical symptoms were improving, but Im back in the hole right now.

Since playing football, Ive started getting weakness and tingling in my right leg, along with goosbump type sensations. These are all pretty scary, and I found guillan barre syndrome on google earlier and im feeling damn scared again. Cant sleep.

Mentioned all this in passing to my partner and she just said, take the meds. Im struggling right now. Cant help but think about ms, spine problems, nerve damage, neuro stuff......

jojo2316
09-01-19, 08:57
Take the meds!

jray23
09-01-19, 19:59
Adding Guillian Barre Syndrome to the list huh? Either you're the sickest guy in the world or you have health anxiety...

(We've all been there)

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MrLurcher
09-01-19, 22:20
I cant believe this. Tonight my abdomen has flared up again, bloated, tender to touch, painful. Second bought in a month. Currently curled up on the sofa with a hot water bottle. Why the hell is this happening :-( Got crohns back on the mind now. I havent felt stressed once today, and been relaxing most of the morning and afternoon. The docs wont even entertain this right now if I visited them.

jray23
10-01-19, 00:55
The docs wont even entertain this right now.

And you shouldn't either. Stop trying to feel perfect. You almost never will.

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MrLurcher
10-01-19, 20:10
And you shouldn't either. Stop trying to feel perfect. You almost never will.

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Thanks jray, its just quite upsetting getting things all the time. Seems relentless atm.

Spoke to the doc who said ive just had bloods done and there were no markers for anything bad. Unfortunately ive read online that bloods are not reliable for crohns, colitis, etc, especially during non flare ups. Just feel im not being taken seriously.

pulisa
10-01-19, 20:52
I thought my physical symptoms were improving, but Im back in the hole right now.

Since playing football, Ive started getting weakness and tingling in my right leg, along with goosbump type sensations. These are all pretty scary, and I found guillan barre syndrome on google earlier and im feeling damn scared again. Cant sleep.

Mentioned all this in passing to my partner and she just said, take the meds. Im struggling right now. Cant help but think about ms, spine problems, nerve damage, neuro stuff......

Good that you can still play football though despite your relentless catalogue of symptoms.

Maybe your relentless reading of Dr Google's annals will be contributing to your relentless symptoms?

jojo2316
10-01-19, 21:12
Good that you can still play football though despite your relentless catalogue of symptoms.

Maybe your relentless reading of Dr Google's annals will be contributing to your relentless symptoms?

Harsh but true :roflmao:

MrLurcher
10-01-19, 22:23
Good that you can still play football though despite your relentless catalogue of symptoms.

Maybe your relentless reading of Dr Google's annals will be contributing to your relentless symptoms?

Last week was the first time I played since having my leg symtpoms at the start of december.

Just played another hour tonight with my stomach issues. Funnily, my pain went as I played, however is back again after ive come home and sat down. Serious question, would a person with crohns, colitis, diverticulitus etc be able to play sports in a middle of a flare up?

SnowyGreen
11-01-19, 01:40
;