Holistic health - An excellent video.

[ankietyjoe]

I came across this video on Youtube and it mirrors everything I've been trying to say (rant....repeat.....shout about....:D) on these forums for the last couple of years.

The answer isn't in pills or secrets, but rather the answer is TOTALLY within your own control.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfR445ymujk

[Confusion]

Different things work for different people. If these techniques work for you fine, but telling people medication isn't the answer is a dangerous precedent to set. For myself, therapy and counselling never worked. Finally, finding the right medication changed my life significantly for the better.

[ankietyjoe]

Different things work for different people. If these techniques work for you fine, but telling people medication isn't the answer is a dangerous precedent to set. For myself, therapy and counselling never worked. Finally, finding the right medication changed my life significantly for the better.

Good for you. However, I can tell from the speed of your response you haven't even watched the video, let alone tried the lifestyle choices contained.

Are you saying that taking a pill is a better solution that fixing things by living the way your body and mind is supposed to live?

[MyNameIsTerry]

Not had chance to watch it, Joe, but from reading the content list below it looks interesting.

I don't believe in single methodologies. When people talk about acceptance only I've always seen it as a passive strategy. I don't agree with drugs only as they are like pain killers, they don't resolve what's going on underneath. They may in some, but it's such an unknown area that it's a gamble.

For me a holistic approach or a toolbox is the way. It's very often we have multiple areas that require evaluation. One element creates other factors. For instance, a naff workplace might mean more drinking and eating poorly as well as taking less exercise. I see acceptance as a tool in the toolbox but without challenging yourself through exposure and applying the acceptance you end up hoping to get better rather than doing it. And this is why I'm critical of therapy such as CBT as it tends to look at the reaction and thoughts well but forgets about general healthy living. I guess they depend on the GP to handle that end...good luck with that.

In professor Williams Mindfulness book it talks about evaluating your nurturing activities vs those that sap you. That can apply to people too. Your work is a big element of your life and being unhappy in it can have a big impact on your quality of life, especially if you don't have a great life outside of work.

It's obvious really if you take this place as an example. Those struggling more are owned by their current anxiety, those living a better quality of life are less overwhelmed by it.

Drugs certainly have their place. And it's not always about being able to fix yourself either as environment factors can play their part. Life is forced onto many people with little escape so it's not so simple but I realise that's not what you are saying here.

Even if you forget about anxiety, healthy living is important to so many other areas of life anyway. All doctors agree on that surely.

[ankietyjoe]

Not had chance to watch it, Joe, but from reading the content list below it looks interesting.

I don't believe in single methodologies. When people talk about acceptance only I've always seen it as a passive strategy. I don't agree with drugs only as they are like pain killers, they don't resolve what's going on underneath. They may in some, but it's such an unknown area that it's a gamble.

For me a holistic approach or a toolbox is the way. It's very often we have multiple areas that require evaluation. One element creates other factors. For instance, a naff workplace might mean more drinking and eating poorly as well as taking less exercise. I see acceptance as a tool in the toolbox but without challenging yourself through exposure and applying the acceptance you end up hoping to get better rather than doing it. And this is why I'm critical of therapy such as CBT as it tends to look at the reaction and thoughts well but forgets about general healthy living. I guess they depend on the GP to handle that end...good luck with that.

In professor Williams Mindfulness book it talks about evaluating your nurturing activities vs those that sap you. That can apply to people too. Your work is a big element of your life and being unhappy in it can have a big impact on your quality of life, especially if you don't have a great life outside of work.

It's obvious really if you take this place as an example. Those struggling more are owned by their current anxiety, those living a better quality of life are less overwhelmed by it.

Drugs certainly have their place. And it's not always about being able to fix yourself either as environment factors can play their part. Life is forced onto many people with little escape so it's not so simple but I realise that's not what you are saying here.

Even if you forget about anxiety, healthy living is important to so many other areas of life anyway. All doctors agree on that surely.

I agree with all of this, there is wisdom here.

A couple of points in particular.

1) I'm not against medication per se, but for most people it's not a long term fix. Anxiety wasn't a short trip for me, it took over a decade for me to find out what worked. During that time I'd seen 5 people close enough to me take medication and it either failed, made things worse or they're still in the loop of 'seeing how things go'. I'm aware that for some people it does work...but for how long? There are numerous stories of efficacy reducing after X amount of time, so I stand by my comment that it's not the answer.

2) Therapy IS useful and does work, but as you point out it's just one branch of the larger holistic tree. Acceptance is part of therapy (in my opinion) and the reason why I preach it often is that it is the absolute first response action that will change your relationship with anxiety.....but perhaps won't stop the constant reason WHY it keeps happening in the first place. You won't go into full panic as much (or at all), but you might still feel constantly 'wound up' and anxious.

I think people can misinterpret the word 'holistic' as something that represents sandal wearing, candle burning and chanting at the moon. It's nothing of the sort. It just means a multi faceted approach at improving your overall health. Diet, exercise, reducing stress and actively increasing the time you spend in a relaxed state.

And....time. It takes time. I think that's the single biggest hurdle for most people.

[Darksky]

My problem is quite 'simple' I have fear of fear. I fear the sensations in anxiety and definately in panic.
Very early on I discovered Claire Weeks so I never been mystified by the symptoms, I've known exactly what causes them. I need to lose my fear of fear.
I think I 'put up with ' rather than accept and there is a vital difference I think.

I do believe in acceptance but dispite attempting for 40 years it's obvious I'm doing something very wrong. I think is simply 'how' to accept. I've read PaulDavid...really feel it in the pit of your stomach, let go, fall into the anxiety hole.....I just don't seem to be doing it right...I think my fear is so entrenched after all these years and the fact that I put up with, rather an accept is a problem. Quite simply how do you accept?

[ankietyjoe]

My problem is quite 'simple' I have fear of fear. I fear the sensations in anxiety and definately in panic.
Very early on I discovered Claire Weeks so I never been mystified by the symptoms, I've known exactly what causes them. I need to lose my fear of fear.
I think I 'put up with ' rather than accept and there is a vital difference I think.

I do believe in acceptance but dispite attempting for 40 years it's obvious I'm doing something very wrong. I think is simply 'how' to accept. I've read PaulDavid...really feel it in the pit of your stomach, let go, fall into the anxiety hole.....I just don't seem to be doing it right...I think my fear is so entrenched after all these years and the fact that I put up with, rather an accept is a problem. Quite simply how do you accept?

When did your anxiety start?

I notice from one of your other threads saying you haven't left the house alone for a number of years. I think another component of acceptance is that you need to face those fears and sit with the panic in a situation where you'd normally run away from. If you have panic attacks in big shopping centres, go there and let it run it's course. I had to do that with going to Tesco for about 2 years, I went 3 times a week at least even though I hated being there.

[Darksky]

Well, it stated with a panic. Nothing at all up til then. I was a confident person, go anywhere, do anything. Nothing bothered me. Then I had a serious chest pain. Looking back I know it was muscular but at the time it terrified me. A panic followed. The pain diminished over time but the panic took a life of its own. Then general anxiety followed. In short I became terrified of the fear symptoms,
I went to the Drs. He gave me diazepam, which I didn't take. I figured even then that it would still be there after I'd finished them. A couple of years later I found a Claire weeks book and discovered what was wrong with me and started on the acceptance route. Failing each time.
It isn't just going out alone that's an issue. It's general anxiety anytime and panic anytime, I can be sat watching the tv. I know a micro thought starts it but it's also a micro second that escalates it. I suppose my main problem is GAD, the daily stomach churns, general anxiousness. That's what I would like to get on top of by accepting but I have no idea how to ' really' do it

---------- Post added at 21:06 ---------- Previous post was at 21:01 ----------

Basically what's going on in your head when you accept. I just get on with my day but that little voice pops up...god I hate this...then I am putting up with, rather than accepting.

[KatiePink]

Ive had many people who seem to scoff when I mention the word holistic or natural, as if it offends them somehow or its some sort of witch craft!

[Confusion]

No i didnt watch the video before my response because I've seen it before. I don't necessarily disagree with anything Chatterjee says. I just want it to be clear that for some people, the answer very much lies in medication. I've suffered from anxiety for the majority of my almost 40 years. For me, anxiety seems to be an inherent outcome of my biological make up. I've tried countless lifestyle changes, exercise regimes, relaxation techniques, you name it. Only after finally finding the correct medication relatively recently, has there been any significant improvement. I'm now able to hold down a job and I'm happier than I've been in a very long time.

Again, everyone suffers from anxiety for countless different reasons. Be they physiological or psychological. Some people respond to therapy without the need for medication, some people use spirituality and faith, some use lifestyle changes and exercise regimes. Others like me require the correct medication to make a difference. And some benefit from a mix of all of the above. I'm simply concerned about the notion that people don't need medication at all. I've seen people in my own life suffer after being told via questionable people and methods to throw away their pills. It's extremely dangerous.

[ankietyjoe]

Well, it stated with a panic. Nothing at all up til then. I was a confident person, go anywhere, do anything. Nothing bothered me. Then I had a serious chest pain. Looking back I know it was muscular but at the time it terrified me. A panic followed. The pain diminished over time but the panic took a life of its own. Then general anxiety followed. In short I became terrified of the fear symptoms,
I went to the Drs. He gave me diazepam, which I didn't take. I figured even then that it would still be there after I'd finished them. A couple of years later I found a Claire weeks book and discovered what was wrong with me and started on the acceptance route. Failing each time.
It isn't just going out alone that's an issue. It's general anxiety anytime and panic anytime, I can be sat watching the tv. I know a micro thought starts it but it's also a micro second that escalates it. I suppose my main problem is GAD, the daily stomach churns, general anxiousness. That's what I would like to get on top of by accepting but I have no idea how to ' really' do it.

Basically what's going on in your head when you accept. I just get on with my day but that little voice pops up...god I hate this...then I am putting up with, rather than accepting.

Ok so the anxiety has become incredibly habitual. Do you remember what triggered it in the first place? One thing I realised after mine started was that there was a series of events and habits in my life that 'wore me down'.


Ive had many people who seem to scoff when I mention the word holistic or natural, as if it offends them somehow or its some sort of witch craft!

I know, I think we've become too reliant on a medical solution to problems that don't need a medical solution. Even Chaterjee alludes to this in his talks, saying that medicine is very good for acute problems such as an infection, a broken leg or a hernia. You can't meditate yourself out of these situations. Medicine usually fails with chronic medical issues such as diabetes and anxiety though. I equate anti-depressant use with giving insulin to diabetics. You are treating a symptom, but doing absolutely nothing about the cause. Sadly in both cases, you may be saving the patients life in the short term, meaning that a more holistic (and expensive) approach remains unnecessary.


No i didnt watch the video before my response because I've seen it before. I don't necessarily disagree with anything Chatterjee says. I just want it to be clear that for some people, the answer very much lies in medication. I've suffered from anxiety for the majority of my almost 40 years. For me, anxiety seems to be an inherent outcome of my biological make up. I've tried countless lifestyle changes, exercise regimes, relaxation techniques, you name it. Only after finally finding the correct medication relatively recently, has there been any significant improvement. I'm now able to hold down a job and I'm happier than I've been in a very long time.

Again, everyone suffers from anxiety for countless different reasons. Be they physiological or psychological. Some people respond to therapy without the need for medication, some people use spirituality and faith, some use lifestyle changes and exercise regimes. Others like me require the correct medication to make a difference. And some benefit from a mix of all of the above. I'm simply concerned about the notion that people don't need medication at all. I've seen people in my own life suffer after being told via questionable people and methods to throw away their pills. It's extremely dangerous.

Don't get me wrong, I'm genuinely pleased that medication works for you, and I can see the need for it in your life...but that still doesn't mean I think it's the answer long term.

I have studied anxiety intensely for the past 5 years, to the point where I plan to make the solving of anxiety a job in the near future. I'm actually very passionate about this and I hate to think of people suffering, because I know exactly what it's like. It is hell. I'm not sure exactly how yet, but I will do as much of it for free as I can. I live with a partner who has incredibly severe trauma based mental health problems, which I've also had to study in order to be her carer. I hate seeing suffering, I hate it.

One thing I've learned is that anxiety is not a normal state to be in, and in the absence of a physical abnormality to a part of the body that creates the hormones responsible for anxiety, things can be done. For example, a few years ago I came into contact with a dude who had suffered anxiety for at least 15 years and had 'tried everything'. He eventually ended up in a retreat in Thailand. It was run by Buddhist monks as a non profit enterprise. He remained there for six months in total on a regime of very early nights (9pm-4.30am), very sparse diet with regular fasting, lots of exercise (wood chopping, walks, digging etc) and 3 daily meditations. He said it was extremely hard for the first couple of weeks, but then his body adapted. Everything they do in these retreats is pretty much what Chaterjee preaches, and they have been doing this for centuries. Sometimes people need to retreat for even longer periods, but their success rate is virtually 100%. The mind and body WANT to find equilibrium. The rare exceptions to success are drug addicts and severe trauma victims.

The problem WE have, is that it's very difficult to apply the techniques that are needed on a daily basis. It requires immense willpower to switch your phone off at 9pm AND eat well every day AND exercise every day AND meditate every day AND not get involved in the internet AND not get stressed about work deadlines AND do it for prolonged periods of time....months on end.....etc.....you get the picture. Our society just isn't set up for people to take mental pit-stops.

[sammiej123]

Can I ask you what anxiety medication you have been taking ? I have been struggling with anxiety for years... I am aware of the acceptance and riding panic attacks out - although I don't think I accept more like put up with it and grin and bear it.. I have become really depressed with it and find myself consumed with fear around my symptoms and health. My GP advised Sertraline but I am so scared of the side effects!!! I cant cope with any other strange feelings..

[pulisa]

So what happened after your friend came back from Thailand? Has he remained able to manage his anxiety?

[Darksky]

Yes I do agree with you. It is habitual. My go to state of being. I'm not like it all the time, but any stresses in life, of which I have loads at the moment, certainly bring it on.
Before that first panic, I had nothing at all. No stress, a happy carefree life. No bad life events. Then the first panic, then the fear of panic, then the GAD. I know my thoughts cause it, a tiny micro thought maybe, but it's there.
I just want to learn 'how' to accept these feelings. I'm sure it's the key, because if we cease to fear the sensations, what is there for anxiety to feed on...nothing.

[ankietyjoe]

So what happened after your friend came back from Thailand? Has he remained able to manage his anxiety?

There's no anxiety to manage any more. Before the trip to Thailand he used to run a business from home and struggled with even minor personal confrontations. He used to self medicate regularly (booze, drugs etc) to cope with social situations. He's now moved away from his home town and has a job in IT.

My experience with anxiety mirrors that, in that I don't HAVE to manage it any more because for the most part it's simply not there. Maybe once every couple of weeks I'll feel a small twinge, but it's gone as fast as it appears. My CNS has all but stopped reacting. I do know that I'm still prone to stress, I know that physically I still have a couple of years recovery ahead of me, but that's fine.


Yes I do agree with you. It is habitual. My go to state of being. I'm not like it all the time, but any stresses in life, of which I have loads at the moment, certainly bring it on.
Before that first panic, I had nothing at all. No stress, a happy carefree life. No bad life events. Then the first panic, then the fear of panic, then the GAD. I know my thoughts cause it, a tiny micro thought maybe, but it's there.
I just want to learn 'how' to accept these feelings. I'm sure it's the key, because if we cease to fear the sensations, what is there for anxiety to feed on...nothing.

If you follow the video again, it's illustrated that life doesn't have to be obviously bad for the stress to take hold. In particular not enough sleep and/or a poor refined carb rich diet can seriously wear you down over the years. I for example have to take probiotics on top of eating really well. If I don't, I start to feel jittery and nervous. The state of your gut bacteria seriously effects the way you feel. I ran out of them over Christmas and went about 4-5 days without them and by day 3 I could feel it. I hadn't even thought about it until I had a lightbulb moment and remembered that I had to order some more.

[KatiePink]

I really like your approach and it's what I've thought for a long time, I do believe there are cases where in the short term some form of medication may be necessary. Or let's say we all have different lives and if someone is suffering to the point they can no longer function, and all of the above just isn't possible for them, the change of lifestyle isn't possible for whatever reasons, then I'd rather they be medicated if it means less suffering. It's all about being happy and at peace and I do believe the majority of the time that could be accomplished with these approaches you've mentioned, lifestyle and diet changes, learning how to manage stress and an understanding of what anxiety is and what it does.

I've thought for a long time that I'm not beyond help, I need something like a retreat mentioned above. I manage to get myself half better, then life happens and I'm back deep in it again, then I get half better and the same again, like their isn't enough headspace in my day to day life to do everything I know I should be doing to take care of my mind and body.

I've suffered with stress as long as I can remember, even as a child my parents said I would be emotionally very effected by things, I would over think and worry from a young age, lie in bed at night worrying about things, worry about my mum, my dad, the world, not understand why there are bad people and why bad things happen, I was a very sensitive child but very strong too. I found I developed a lot of bad coping habits over the years, as a child and through my teenage years, the physical effects of stress and anxiety didn't show, although I had severe constipation issues when I was younger which could be attributed to stress, my late teens it started with chronic tense muscles, neck pain back pain, jaw clenching jaw troubles migraines, hives, muscle twitches, insomnia etc. Which I do fully believe we're all caused by my chronic stress and anxiety.

[Confusion]

Can I ask you what anxiety medication you have been taking ? I have been struggling with anxiety for years... I am aware of the acceptance and riding panic attacks out - although I don't think I accept more like put up with it and grin and bear it.. I have become really depressed with it and find myself consumed with fear around my symptoms and health. My GP advised Sertraline but I am so scared of the side effects!!! I cant cope with any other strange feelings..

Sertraline. I was terrified of switching my medication for so long because of the side effects but I finally switched to Sertraline after hitting rock bottom and it was one of the best decisions I ever made in my life. I was on seroxat/paroxatine which is awful awful stuff. One night I stopped taking it and started taking Sertraline instead. I was terrified of how it would affect me. I shouldn't have been.

Do it. Sertraline had quite literally changed my life. I was lucky enough to experience zero side effects. I can't guarantee that you won't but with the consent of health professional, please please PLEASE do it.

[ankietyjoe]

I really like your approach and it's what I've thought for a long time, I do believe there are cases where in the short term some form of medication may be necessary. Or let's say we all have different lives and if someone is suffering to the point they can no longer function, and all of the above just isn't possible for them, the change of lifestyle isn't possible for whatever reasons, then I'd rather they be medicated if it means less suffering. It's all about being happy and at peace and I do believe the majority of the time that could be accomplished with these approaches you've mentioned, lifestyle and diet changes, learning how to manage stress and an understanding of what anxiety is and what it does.

I've thought for a long time that I'm not beyond help, I need something like a retreat mentioned above. I manage to get myself half better, then life happens and I'm back deep in it again, then I get half better and the same again, like their isn't enough headspace in my day to day life to do everything I know I should be doing to take care of my mind and body.

I've suffered with stress as long as I can remember, even as a child my parents said I would be emotionally very effected by things, I would over think and worry from a young age, lie in bed at night worrying about things, worry about my mum, my dad, the world, not understand why there are bad people and why bad things happen, I was a very sensitive child but very strong too. I found I developed a lot of bad coping habits over the years, as a child and through my teenage years, the physical effects of stress and anxiety didn't show, although I had severe constipation issues when I was younger which could be attributed to stress, my late teens it started with chronic tense muscles, neck pain back pain, jaw clenching jaw troubles migraines, hives, muscle twitches, insomnia etc. Which I do fully believe we're all caused by my chronic stress and anxiety.

Have you ever tried meditation, really studying what it is and how it works? For me it was the single most powerful thing that I did to overcome anxiety, but it takes a lot of practice. It resolves precisely the kind of thinking you describe.

I went through the same false start scenario you did for about 5 years. I would get better, then crash again. But eventually I found the combination of tools that worked for me. I'm still working on my sleep habits, which in turn will help me eat and exercise even better than I do now..but the anxiety is pretty much gone and has been for over a year.

This is the place my pal went to, it operates on a donation basis and I think you can stay for as long as you want.

http://vipassanameditation.asia/

[pulisa]

Is it available on the NHS?:D

[ankietyjoe]

Is it available on the NHS?:D

It's available free, every day, everywhere, any time :yesyes:

Unless you're talking about the retreat.....then no :weep:

[pulisa]

I meant the retreat! Didn't think so..

[ankietyjoe]

I meant the retreat! Didn't think so..

Considering they work on donations, even if the NHS subsidised it by paying/donating £200 a week it'd probably still be cheaper than regular NHS treatment.

My partner has a serious mental health issue (that the retreat would NOT be suitable for), and we fought for 2 years to get the specialised treatment required, and it's costing £7k.....per month.

Anyway, that's another story. I just wonder how much it costs the NHS to constantly re-evaluate patients that go in for anxiety 5-10 times a year.

[MyNameIsTerry]

I've seen meditation retreats run on a donation basis in the UK.

The thing for me is always the level of time needed to calm down someone who has been like this daily for years.

[ankietyjoe]

I've seen meditation retreats run on a donation basis in the UK.

The thing for me is always the level of time needed to calm down someone who has been like this daily for years.


Well I found that you can do it without a retreat, at home, with all the stresses of life.

You just have to commit the time you'd usually spend googling problems on something far more constructive. In terms of meditation though, I rarely committed more than 20 minutes a day to it for it to be extremely effective.

Although I probably read about it for three times that long on average :D