View Full Version : food safety ruining my life
i am having a lot of food anxiety. food safety. it started off small, but now, it's starting to affect a lot of foods. the recalls are what used to bother me, but now, i'm afraid of a small dent in a can, or a weird smell on the chicken, brown/gray on my fresh ground beef, or an odd color on a tostito chip. the straw that i thought would break the camel's back was avocados. i love them. and was eating them everyday. (i need to gain weight, and it's a good way to do it). but then someone on fb posted an article about them having listeria on them and that we should wash them before using. well, that sounds reasonable. but in my mind, first off, putting the listeria ladened avocado in my fruit basket to contanimate the apples is not an option. then what if the cutting board gets contaminated? and then what if my dishwasher does? do you see where i'm going with this? and then, washing? like just with water? does that really remove listeria? wouldn't i need to use antibacterial soap? then, can i use that on food??? anyway, so instead of jumping through all those hoops, i am just avoiding buying/eating avocado at home. HOWEVER, i made myself go eat guacamole at a restaurant the first day after learning about this. and i'm able to eat guac at restaurants.(i think about it, but i do it anyway). why is this??
so. i'm saying all that to say. help. i have had enough therapy to KNOW that avoidance makes things worse. and i should do some exposure and response prevention. but i cannot muster up the courage. listeria and food illnesses are REAL. and I'm mildly immunocompromised. i have "mild chronic neutropenia" where my white count sits around 1.5 consistently. so i have a legitimate reason to not want to expose myself to these bacteria. it's a catch 22. i've lost weight and need to gain like 5-10 pounds to get back to a normal weight. i have got to stop avoiding foods that my husband says is fine.(aka ground beef with a little brown in the middle). i'm so sad that i have given up my avocado toast. i'm almost in tears thinking about it.
anyway. how should i go about this? start small right? something that scares me a little, but isn't my biggest fear?i just feel like there is never an opportune time to do it. for example, i don't want to start today, because my dog has had diarrhea and what if i eat an avocado, then i get sick, but it's not really from the avocado, it's actually from the dog, and i won't really know and it will likely confirm that the avocado shouldn't have been eaten. see? my brain is on overload.
has anyone else ever fallen down this rabbit hole and gotten out? i need to fix this.
not sure which forum this really belongs in....it's definitely an ocd thing, but if i wasn't scared of getting sick(HA), then it wouldn't have any hold. so, i put it here in the HA forum(they overlap alot anyway).
I just want to say I can totally relate to you. I have a ton of food safety anxiety and it's led me to avoid so many foods I love. It's really awful. Your original mention of the avocado upset me because I hadn't heard that and I'd eaten 2 avocados that day and there is another I my fruit bowl. But, I let the worry slide over me and moved on. We've been eating avocados for months lately and nothing has happened. Same with you!
But, it's hard. I had a huge botulism scare last year (not a real one, it was completely irrational) and I haven't eaten a canned good since. I used to love to cook with black beans and make dishes with canned tomatoes and such and I haven't. I also almost never cook any meat because I can always find something wrong with it and get worried and throw it away.
But, like you, I don't have any issue eating out. For me, it's the preparation and I think being the one in control of keeping things safe. Like, if I make the wrong decision about safety it'll be on me that I get sick. It's funny because a lot of my anxiety is based on a feeling like I have to be in control. But, with food stuff, I'd rather relent that control to someone else.
exactly!! i think that if it's out of my control i tend to be able to let it go more. i KNOW i HAVE to eat. and i guess it's eye opening, because it shows that the problem is actually the anxiety. let me see if i can explain what i mean. hmmm. when i have to cook at home, i'm overcome with anxiety about the food. is it fresh? is this can dented? is brown meat ok? is chicken supposed to smell? and then, the anxiety kicks in, with the what ifs, and spirals and then i can't even cook it let alone eat it because the what ifs took hold. but with a restaurant, i have to relinquish that control, and so the anxiety that is there at first, gets no fuel, and dies out.
how can i transfer that over to eating at home?
i'm sorry you suffer this as well. maybe we can help each other. i want to get over this.
Ah interesting, I didn't read this thread until after I posted a reply on your other thread. I've said something there about food safety ...
Ah interesting, I didn't read this thread until after I posted a reply on your other thread. I've said something there about food safety ...
Thus the reason I suggested keeping it on the same thread :shades:
Positive thoughts
INdeed ! Makes sense cofo
thanks carys.
but about the other thread...she was already following that thread. i wanted to reach out to others that may not have been following my doggy thread :) and i didn't realize until fishman pointed it out that the subject line had been changed. i'm sure it will get merged now since y'all are making a point. whatevs. :)
exactly!! i think that if it's out of my control i tend to be able to let it go more. i KNOW i HAVE to eat. and i guess it's eye opening, because it shows that the problem is actually the anxiety. let me see if i can explain what i mean. hmmm. when i have to cook at home, i'm overcome with anxiety about the food. is it fresh? is this can dented? is brown meat ok? is chicken supposed to smell? and then, the anxiety kicks in, with the what ifs, and spirals and then i can't even cook it let alone eat it because the what ifs took hold. but with a restaurant, i have to relinquish that control, and so the anxiety that is there at first, gets no fuel, and dies out.
how can i transfer that over to eating at home?
i'm sorry you suffer this as well. maybe we can help each other. i want to get over this.
That's exactly right how you put it. I'm the same way. I'll occasionally get a bit worried about food out - like if a burger is cooked enough, etc... but it's nothing compared to how I feel when I cook at home. My mom had this, so I know that's why I have it. She's even worse than me and will spend hours making a meal only to announce that she thinks maybe something she put in it was bad and throw the whole thing out.
I know the answer is exposure, but it's just exhausting. I have a 4 year old. I'm a stay at home mom and also work 20 hours a week doing freelance writing. I already have literally no free time to myself (which doesn't help my anxiety) so the idea of spending time and money on food that I ultimately get too scare to eat is just too much for me. So, I play it safer and safer... but that's also not the answer!
It's very frustrating.
me too!! playing it safer and safer. i have a teenager and worry about him as well. i have been known to throw out whole meals after cooking. once the doubt sets in, i cannot get past it. and the worst part of that is...let's say i did go ahead and eat it when i was scared to. i would worry and fret and probably not sleep, and probably have diarrhea the next day because of all the anxiety, but my brain would tell me that it was because of the food, and so the fear would actually be reinforced instead of squashed!! can't win.
we have alot in common. my mother (she's passed away)used to off handedly say things about food poisoning. she didn't have it like this as far as i know, but i know she did think about it sometimes. one of the things she used to tell us about food safety was "when in doubt, throw it out". :P i think i'm taking that to the extreme.
i also work from home.
so, how did you keep the avocado thing from gripping you? i wonder what you did differently. how did you keep from being so scared that you doubted yourself and started avoiding them.
so, how did you keep the avocado thing from gripping you? i wonder what you did differently. how did you keep from being so scared that you doubted yourself and started avoiding them.
I'm not sure! And to be fair, I haven't bought or eaten any since learning about it. I had just had them earlier in the day. So I didn't freak out about them, but I also haven't been faced with buying any more yet because those were my last two. My daughter LOVES avocados and we've been eating healthy, so I just need to force myself to buy them on the next trip. I'm hoping I can! One thing that a friend of mine does, that I'd never heard of, is to wash fruit and veggies with salt. It is a natural disinfectant. So, she'll soak her strawberries in a bowl of salt water for a few minutes and then rinse them off. She doesn't have anxiety or anything, she just read somewhere it was a good way to wash fruit. So, that may be a good option. Kind of scrub the skin with salt?
And, to be fair, I haven't read anything about listeria outbreaks from avocados, just that they went and tested them and found it. So, it can't be that big of a transmission risk or they'd say to stop eating them like they did with romaine.
I really do think the avoidance fuels it, so if I can nip it in the bud right away I an sometimes move through it. It works to get out of contamination worries for me, but then doesn't always work for avoidance.
When I went through the bad botulism fear I think what happened was that it was just too overwhelming to worry about it - there was no way to be sure every inch of my house was clean, so I just kind of had to stop worrying. But, it didn't stop me from not buying canned goods...
And, with my cat, I had a day where I was very anxious that his diarrhea was contaminating our house, but it was the same. He goes all over the house, lays on the couches, the rugs, etc... there was no feasible way to disinfect my whole house, so I had to just turn off the worry and move on. I think there is a tipping point for me where the anxiety becomes unsustainable. I know for people with severe OCD that tipping point is much further along. But, since I'm more anxiety than OCD I think I am able to better manage that.
When the first romaine lettuce E. coli thing hit, I stopped eating romaine until it was over and then didn't eat it for months after. Finally, I was like - this is madness and just started eating it again and immediately felt better after the first time I had it. But then like a week later there was another outbreak!! It was so frustrating, and I haven't eaten it since then.
i know what you mean about hitting the tipping point. mine used be a lot lower. back in my 40's. now, i can't say "f-this" as easily as i used to.
i read this article about avocados when it first happened, and thought that's exactly how i felt. but then, when faced with buying one at the grocery, i just couldn't even touch them.
https://munchies.vice.com/en_us/article/kzvy8e/i-will-die-of-listeriosis-before-i-wash-the-outside-of-my-avocado
with the lettuce, i avoided it for a long time too. i don't eat romaine much at home but love a good cesar when we go out to eat. i haven't had a cesar salad in a long time. because they announced it over then it came back! i have been buying spring mix lately, and it contains baby romaine. i'm kinda proud of myself for that. maybe i'll go eat a cesar next weekend!
in the meantime. maybe my first test will be to buy an avocado. i'm going to try to work up the courage to do that sometime this week.....
Good luck! I will do the same. I'll put them on my shopping list like I'd always do and do my best to buy them.
And that's great about the spring mix! I've been having other greens also and SO miss caesar salad! I haven't been out to eat in ages, but I'm going to get one the next time I go!
---------- Post added at 20:10 ---------- Previous post was at 20:07 ----------
This is a great article. AND. It says the study was conducted in 2014! So we've been eating listeria avocados for more than 4 years without incident! That actually makes me feel way better.
---------- Post added at 20:12 ---------- Previous post was at 20:10 ----------
"I will, however, abstain from licking the outside of avocados to claim them as my own from now on." :roflmao:
Thank you for sharing this. I think I feel ok with avocados now. I am definitely a statistics person, so that helped a lot. We can do it!!
So we've been eating listeria avocados for more than 4 years without incident!
Interesting........
MyNameIsTerry
04-02-19, 16:16
Interesting........
And I don't think the avocado was discovered only 4 years ago :winks:
I hope you find the help avoiding the avoidance as it were. It is good that you have recognized the problem, and have a source for the fears, that does make it easier to treat.
As an aside, we are a lot more resilient than we think when it comes to bad food. The dates on grocery store shelves have more to do with product turnover and money than they do food safety. I am not saying one shouldn't eat safe foods, and that food safety isn't important, but our bodies can handle a LOT more than we throw at them, not that I am suggesting we do so.
I cut the mold off breads and cheese, and eat them. I will gladly use the brown hamburger (unless it smells "off"). Poultry, fish and pork are the places I don't take chances. If they seem off, they go into my dogs. ;-)
Hi Cofo,
to reply to your question about ERP, yes I think it did help me. I went from being like you and Erin are talking about to being more relaxed.
I think that the ERP, doing it in a gradual way like you said is a good idea. This is what my therapist taught me; make a list of the things that scare you, start with the easiest thing to challenge then once you can do that without anxiety move onto the next thing.
Keep a diary of what you did, your anxiety rating, and any comments.
I do think something like this it's probably better to do with a therapist's help because OCD is a hard nut to crack.
For me the important thing I had to get my head around was that I had to be in a place where I could accept that if I did this; then yes there would be a risk that I may get ill. I had to accept that if I did get ill, I would cope. The time and cost that I was laying out in order to make my life as safe as possible was really quite high so I used this as motivation to get better.
Best wishes
well, i still haven't bought any avocados dangit!!
i've had a couple of small victories, but nothing major.
last night, i boiled some bagged raviolis. they looked "weird" when they were cooking. i showed my husband and he said he was gonna eat them. he said he's seen that before. i was not convinced. at all. he swore that's how they look(they were weird bubbly looking). anyway, i ate them. and i let my son eat them.
so i felt a little bit of a victory.
but tonight the ice in my in the door fridge maker was kinda wet looking, and stuck together and didn't look like it had made right. so now, i fear the fridge is not working correctly(again. the fear of the fridge not working right).
ugh. two steps forward one step back.
can't bring myself to buy an avocado. :(
Hey! I meant to come back and tell you I bought avocados because I ordered grocery delivery! But, the person who shopped for me picked bad ones and they were overripe before I ate them. But I put them with my other food, etc... And felt good about it.
I also ate romaine on Saturday! It was initially by accident. I ordered a wrap when I was out and didn't notice it until a few bites in. But, I kept eating and didn't worry about it.
My goal this week is to make something in my crockpot, which for some reason I just started worrying about out of nowhere last year.
MyNameIsTerry
12-02-19, 02:43
Something I found with my OCD is that it is like I don't trust myself. I can understand the willingness to trust someone else to do it even though before this I had a job where I had to micro manage a lot because of lack of training across the business (and it was part of why I ended up how I am now with anxiety).
Confidence takes a major battering with anxiety. That impacts onto self esteem. It's important to not only work on the things you see in anxiety (e.g. I'm afraid of x or fear I have Y) but the foundations, the things that underpin it. You can find you resolve one issue and another pops up, or it comes back later on, because the foundations are a bit "sandy".
Aim to regain your trust. Direct compassion towards yourself. Stop kicking yourself so hard.
I've often felt anxiety is like going through a childhood phase, you are learning to grow in how you do things in the world. But as kids we gained confidence through this without the spectre of anxiety, the monkey on your back.
erin- that's fantastic about the avocados, although a bummer that they were too ripe. i still haven't bought them yet. but i did eat guac last night at a restaurant. so good. :)
terry-this is it spot on. i do not trust myself. i used to be a pretty confident person. no problem with self esteem. very sure of myself. didn't give a damn what others thought. i actually trusted myself to know what was best for me, and i actually liked myself.
i don't feel that way wholeheartedly anymore. i feel bogged down with the responsibility of keeping myself alive. keeping my son alive. definitely something to ponder.
i had another small victory this week. i'm trying to add them up. i bought raw chicken to cook for my son's birthday. i haven't bought it in a very long time(i buy a cooked rotisserie, it's easier and already done, and i avoid raw meat). anyway, i bought some, got it home, smelled it(it didn't smell at all, if it did, i would have tossed it, even though everyone says that raw chicken has a smell. this did not, so it's not supposed to smell...anyway, that's a whole other thing). i marinated it and put it in the fridge. then got to worrying about the temp in the fridge. it just didn't seem like it got back down to the right temperature fast enough.(long story on that). anyway, i was pretty concerned. called my sister. she reassured me. but i was really wanting to use the rotisserie instead. i was pretty unsure about it. but i cooked it and we ate it anyway. i totally forced myself to do it. it was not pleasant, sitting with that anxiety. but i have to stop avoiding things. it's just hard to get the courage. which brings me back to what terry is talking about. if i lived with my sister, i think i'd have more courage. i would feel safer. i wouldn't feel like the burden was all on me. for some reason, i don't trust my husband to carry any of the burden, maybe because he is not really into food safety at all. :)
onward. i'm off to play tennis. even though i want to avoid it. the heart thing is weird. i'm trying not to go down a spiral with it. just have to figure out which dr to see and get the courage to do so. in the meantime, i cannot avoid tennis.
---------- Post added at 09:13 ---------- Previous post was at 08:32 ----------
updated. to add. i made a dr appt. next friday 10am. hopefully i won't cancel. ;)
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