View Full Version : one thing after the other....
well it's back to anxiety land.
i was in my son's bathroom, and noticed the shower pipe looked dusty, so i wiped it off.
we have a shower in there that has a diverter. so, you can use the handheld(which you can keep in place or take off and use), or you can divert water up the pipe and use the rain shower head.
my son doesn't ever use the rain shower head.
so, i wiped it off . then i realized there was a silicone cover on the rain head, and it comes off for cleaning. so, i thought oh i'll clean this off while i'm at it. when i pulled the silicone cover partway off, water came out!
so, now i'm freaking out because who knows how long that water had been trapped in the shower head? weeks? months? years?
i'm scared we could get legionnairres or something from it? that shower steams up alot. and although it wouldn't be coming from the rain head, steam is still in the shower when my son uses it.
i don't google, but i want to know if it's ok for me to clean it off myself. and i want to know that we haven't been exposing our son to legionnaires this whole time.
this is just another thing...i didn't ask for.
nomorepanic
03-03-19, 21:40
You are posting a lot about the same issues over and over. You need to treat the real problem here of anxiety.
Please keep to one thread and post all your worries on there.
If that were the case, some of my plumbing adventures surely would have killed me. Waist deep in septic fluids, elbow deep in toilet water. I am sure you are fine.
You are posting a lot about the same issues over and over. You need to treat the real problem here of anxiety.
Please keep to one thread and post all your worries on there.
this isn't the same issue. i've actually never had this issue.
i mean, yes, of course, it's the same...as in it causes me anxiety.
maybe i'm using this board wrong. and maybe it should just be used to seek help about how to handle the anxiety....not reassurance.
but mainly i came on to ask people with anxiety if they know anything about showerheads that don't get used often, and the consequences they may have on our health, instead of googling, i came here. so that i can get some info. that's the beauty of having a forum. it's like minded people(anxious, in this case)coming together to help us get through our life's issues, knowing that we all have the same underlying problem.
as i said, i've been having issues that i just don't know anything about lately...weird crap. like battery acid and plumbing :)
i did take off the silicone, and cleaned it and the shower head. it had some little black specks on it here and there but i couldn't really tell if it was mold. they looked like tiny bits of pepper. tiny.
anyway...thanks
i did decide i was fine to clean it, and fine that the water got on me. no worries there.
i'm just concerned that it steams up when my son takes a shower, and apparently, steam is what can carry legionnairres. (even though the water is coming from a different shower head, it still steams up in there.)
nomorepanic
03-03-19, 22:49
NO it can't - you are overthinking this
ankietyjoe
03-03-19, 23:29
this is just another thing...i didn't ask for.
This isn't one thing, it's nothing. You're just creating a problem that doesn't exist.
This isn't one thing, it's nothing. You're just creating a problem that doesn't exist.
i like this. getting me thinking....
here's the thing, how do i know it's nothing? that is the problem. standing water, mold, steam....mixed together, they CAN be hazardous, but in what context. that's what i wondered.
but then, back to your statement...i do like that. i need to think about that when i feel the anxiety, am i creating a problem that doesn't exist?
but, on the contrary, i really don't think i do that.
latest worries...
water came out of showerhead that's rarely used. i didn't just make up that water came out. or that it's rarely used.
my tooth/gums bled. then i worried about abscess. i didn't just wonder if my tooth bled, it really did.
battery acid. i didn't just imagine the battery was damaged, it was.
that sums up pretty much my whole world.
i don't just pull crap out of the blue...things happen then i worry.
and that's the problem. i don't know when it's nothing, or when it's not.
ankietyjoe
04-03-19, 00:02
i like this. getting me thinking....
here's the thing, how do i know it's nothing? that is the problem. standing water, mold, steam....mixed together, they CAN be hazardous, but in what context. that's what i wondered.
but then, back to your statement...i do like that. i need to think about that when i feel the anxiety, am i creating a problem that doesn't exist?
that sums up pretty much my whole world.
You don't know, but without any evidence that you HAVE been infected with something unlikely, what's the point in worrying?
You could die crossing the road or driving your car. There has to be a point where you just let life waft you along a little bit and stop worrying about every, single, solitary 'potential' danger.
I've found that it's best to worry about something when it happens, rather than worrying about the possibility. At the moment you are literally creating scenarios in your mind that don't exist. You are playing through a scenario in your mind that hasn't happened, and is unlikely to happen.
In essence, you are torturing yourself.
Next time you feel the need to worry, stand up and say "no". Walk away, go and do something else. You have to retrain your brain to stop worrying about abstract, imaginary scenarios.
AMomentofClarity
04-03-19, 00:16
this isn't the same issue. i've actually never had this issue
The thing is, whether you realize it or not, all of your issues are IDENTICAL. It’s a combination of health anxiety + contamination ocd. Whether it’s contaminated food, contaminated water, or batteries contaminated with acid, you’re repeating the same pattern again and again and again.
Your issue is overall anxiety, not every issue du jour. Treat the root cause.
MyNameIsTerry
04-03-19, 06:50
Legionnaires Disease thrives in certain water temperatures and stagnant water. If it was something in the garden that had been stagnant and filled with muck for a year you might be more careful disposing of it but even then it's very unlikely.
With plumbing it's often more air con where we see cases of it in the UK.
I remember looking at the stats for this, since all cases are reported for public safety reasons, and the majority of cases were not from small places like dwellings or their gardens. Numbers are still very low but they are more outbreaks in communal settings e.g. public buildings where air con is not serviced properly.
Look at it from another angle. If an unused appliance attached to a water supply (shower, washer, dishwasher, taps, etc) were a risk for this wouldn't there be much stricter guidance on health & safely? For instance, anyone moving into a previously empty abode would be immediately at risk therefore all landlords/owners would be instructed to perform some servicing to check for it.
And don't forget steam isn't getting in that shower/pipe anyway.
EDIT: also remember that with a shower the water is normally fed through the shower because it passes over a heating element. Until you switch the shower on, even just for cold water, the valves for the inlet pipe will be closed anyway. So, the water is really in the pipes themselves and this is no different to your taps.
woke up this morning and thought to myself, "what if you get so anxious you get depressed? what if you get so depressed you start thinking about suicide? do you want that?"
it was, excuse the pun, quite the wake up call.
i've been pondering this all day. i'm kind of in a state of panic, but possibly it's good to feel this way. I can't keep worrying all the time. I can't sustain it anymore.
I left a message for my old therapist. she may not be what i need, but today, it's all i could do. I am overwhelmed at the thought of seeking a new one, and know that i probably wouldn't do it. so for now, i'll go see her.
i also got out my midfullness and acceptance workbook for anxiety. did some reading. something that struck me was that i am currently just spending most of my time managing my anxieties. whether i'm avoiding them(doctors, food)or I'm checking them(mold, bugs) or seeking reassurance, it's taking up alot of my time and it's not really working.
avoidance is the worst of it. the food fear is out of control. i don't know what to do about it. it's not as easy as "just do it". i literally can't. my body is way to anxious and i can't live with the feeling. i know starting small is probably better, but i don't even know where to begin. I'm really sad as i type this. mainly because it's not an easy fix. and i literally don't know what i'm going to do. like today. what can i do today to take the first step to getting past this fear?
i kinda want to try meds, but i'm too scared. so, for now, what can i do?
For now, be proud of yourself that you've decided to take action.
Would it be possible to speak to your primary care provider and maybe at least have a chat with them about your options re: medication?
For now, be proud of yourself that you've decided to take action.
Would it be possible to speak to your primary care provider and maybe at least have a chat with them about your options re: medication?
i'm just too scared to try medication. that's like at the top of the anxiety list. i like to have a couple of glasses of wine at night and i am thinking that i won't be able to do that if i start on medication. and what if the medication makes me suicidal or homocidal, or psychotic (wish i'd never heard those side effects). i know several people on a low dose of lexapro, and i'd give anything if i could try it without the fear. but....
a little on the food safety fear - mainly, a trip to the grocery gives me anxiety. my main fear is chicken or ground beef. i basically stopped buying it. raw chicken always stinks to me, and i read that it shouldn't. so i'd say 7/10 times the chicken smells like a fart when i open it. when that happens i cannot cook/eat it. i have bought it numerous times when it doesn't have a smell at all, so, now, i'm convinced that any smell means it's bad. so i throw it out. for ground beef, i cannot use it if it has any brown in it. i have been told numerous times that the brown color is from no air reaching the inside of the ground beef, but i can't get past it. mainly, because i have asked my facebook friends if when they buy ground beef is it ever brown inside and they said no. (my sister though has shown me hers a couple of times and it was, but she lives in a different state). so now every time i buy ground beef, if it has any brown i throw it out. i try every once in a while...i buy it, think i'll be able to do it, and then if it's not "perfect" i throw it away. this makes me feel awful, because i can't help it. and then i know i'm feeding the dragon(as fishmanpa)would say.
so basically i've stopped buy those 2 things. that really limits my cooking. i buy rotisserie chicken already cooked, and premade meatloafs from the grocer.
Good job for reaching out for real life help :yesyes: While I feel the forum is beneficial in knowing you're not alone in your thoughts and struggles, and its cathartic to be able to put your thoughts in writing, reassurance seeking can be and is detrimental to recovery and words on a screen are no substitute for real life help.
Positive thoughts
Good job for reaching out for real life help :yesyes: While I feel the forum is beneficial in knowing you're not alone in your thoughts and struggles, and its cathartic to be able to put your thoughts in writing, reassurance seeking can be and is detrimental to recovery and words on a screen are no substitute for real life help.
Positive thoughts
thanks. that's not to say i won't come on here and ask my crazy questions... :) i still think that getting factual information safely from here, it way better than trying to google for it. having said that....any experience with raw chicken or ground beef? :)
MyNameIsTerry
04-03-19, 17:41
Think of it this way, you are taking steps to restore balance away from the anxiety inner chimp that is happy it is winning the battle. It doesn't want to go back in it's cage so it fights you all the way. It's chief weapons are things like doubt, dripping bits of poison into your ear about "what if", heightened emotion, etc. This is why things like acceptance can work because you start calming your reactions to deprive it of that feedback banana it craves.
It's popping those intrusive thoughts into your head, the "what ifs" about depression coming or you harming yourself. We've probably all had these or something like them. But it's more of the chimp's over emotional statements because depression isn't like that, it's not a logical conclusion to move into self harm. Again, it's trying to protect you irrationally thinking what it's doing is correct.
See it as a list of possibilities. Some may have merit, others go straight in the bin. Try to remove the emotional reasoning when examining what it presents you with.
having said that....any experience with raw chicken or ground beef? :)
Have some beef defrosting for meatballs in the kitchen as I write this :shades: Fortunately, contamination issues for me are solved with the use of common sense and don't affect me in the least.
Now pass me the raw chicken tenders (I cut up and handle raw chicken daily as we feed our cat a raw diet in addition to his kibble).
Positive thoughts
Hey Cofo,
Brilliant ! I knew it, you are a fighter, someone who takes action and responsibility for your own mental health.....I could honestly see that it was a matter of time before you came to the realisation that you were going to 'do something'. It comes to the point where you get truly fed up of being scared of too many things doesn't it, the time and emotional energy used is depressing and pointless. The contamination-type fears never stay constant either, they multiply pyramid style I found. I had terrible issues with contamination like you a couple of decades ago, food/eating out/things I touched....I can entirely understand the things you are asking about (legionnaries being the most recent one) as I could have written them myself years ago. I will say this - as you push forwards and challenge yourself in small steps to deal with one thing at a time, it will be releasing, as you have small successes they will build. I won't say that I have everything sorted (still a right moron with medications lol) but at least I now don't spend time ever looking up things like 'lead poisoning' , from touching the leaded glass, and imagining that I am choking and about to keel over from using bleach lol I still need my hands really well washed before touching a sandwich, but hey thats good practice as far as I'm concerned lol
i truly appreciate your support. all of you. i'm scared. ha. go figure.
it seems like it cannot be done without medication. and that is pretty much proven here everyday. all of you are on a medication, right?
i still have to do something about it, but i have to admit, that part of it makes me wary.
fishmanpa - does your raw chicken ever stink? or does it not have a smell at all. is the ground beef ever brown?
AMomentofClarity
04-03-19, 18:57
fishmanpa - does your raw chicken ever stink? or does it not have a smell at all. is the ground beef ever brown?
Just an observation....while you’re acknowledging that you need help and that’s a great first step, you’re simultaneously beating the dead horse and keeping the negative/obsessive thoughts front and center with the above reassurance seeking.
i truly appreciate your support. all of you. i'm scared. ha. go figure.
it seems like it cannot be done without medication. and that is pretty much proven here everyday. all of you are on a medication, right?
i still have to do something about it, but i have to admit, that part of it makes me wary.
fishmanpa - does your raw chicken ever stink? or does it not have a smell at all. is the ground beef ever brown?
Let me address the meds aspect. I'm not a sufferer but there have been very traumatic events in my life from physical issues that it warranted psychotropics. I was on Zoloft for 6 months for depression. It helped tremendously. I had Buspar for the 'scanxiety' I dealt with after my cancer. Did I want to take it? No BUT... I needed it in order for therapy to be effective. My daughter takes meds, my sister too. I know many who take meds and it's helped them so? I equate it to meds for physical ailments. I'm on 7 prescription meds. If you read the side effects you'd freak out but I'm still here so ;) There are many here that resisted meds and when they finally gave in and tried, it helped them too. I think you'd find the overall consensus positive.
Concerning meat... Again, common sense food handling and precautions rule the day. Yes, raw meat has a scent and it's apparent when something is off. Your judgement is very obviously skewed thus resulting in irrational thinking and behaviors concerning this subject.
Positive thoughts
it seems like it cannot be done without medication. and that is pretty much proven here everyday. all of you are on a medication, right?
Yes, it can be done without. I wasn't put on medication years ago because of HA, GAD and OCD issues....I was put on something for a serious post natal problem. I have been on an entirely non-therapeutic dose now for 10 maybe 15 years, my doc said I might as well come off it, but its been tricky with side effects on the last step off it so I've not bothered. My issues with HA and contamination have been practically non existent for the last 10 years due to employing cbt strategies. State of mind, a positive attitude to changing your thought processes and effort are of higher importance than medication to my mind. (but then I studied psychology, so I would say that lol) You can always try first can't you.....without medication....and if you are still being troubled and having little success then maybe a med would take the edge of things and give you a chance to have some calm successes. I've said this before...I'm not anti-medication, I'm not promedication, I think it has its place but I think its over subscribed. Its a cheaper alternative to other therapies and whilst it might work for some, its not a guarantee for everyone. So, my advice to you would be to do what you are most comfortable with at this point, but bear in mind that you may be one of those people who eventually needs to try a med as clinically you are one of those who would benefit.
If mince has gone brown in the middle of the it is because of a lack of air (I looked this up years ago lol) but if its grey and yukky throughout then its gone off.
i'm just too scared to try medication. that's like at the top of the anxiety list.
My medication fear is my biggy too, and one that I've really continued to struggle with despite getting to grips with most things. I have to get to 'really ill' point before anti-biotics get taken (luckily only needed them twice in 20 years) and if I ever need to take anything new then I have to break it up into crumbs and start that way. I did manage to take tamoxifen this way a few years ago, by starting small lol (unfortunately that worked out very badly for me, so set all my positive work backwards )I needed surgery a few years ago, and having the GA and associated meds during and after was HIDEOUS, but I did it. If you want to chat on PM about this issue, I am happy to do so as I have developed a few strategies that might help you ?. I think you should take the first step and see your old therapist, and take her advice on the meds anyway.
ankietyjoe
04-03-19, 19:53
You absolutely do not need medication. I beat horrendous anxiety AND HA without medication. I had multiple hospital visits and virtually didn't leave my living room for 6 months on three separate occasions. I actually think medication has the potential to stall or slow recovery as well as it's a bit of a lottery which one will work for you, and then what do you do when you want to come off the medication? I accept that it works for some, but there is another way that's actually more effective.
All it requires is effort every single day. It takes weeks and months to break the bad mental habits YOU(ME) got into. But then it took you weeks/months to get there too, so no big deal. Don't expect immediate results (even when medication works it rarely offers instant results either), and accept where you are just today.
You absolutely do not need medication. I beat horrendous anxiety AND HA without medication. I had multiple hospital visits and virtually didn't leave my living room for 6 months on three separate occasions. I actually think medication has the potential to stall or slow recovery as well as it's a bit of a lottery which one will work for you, and then what do you do when you want to come off the medication? I accept that it works for some, but there is another way that's actually more effective.
All it requires is effort every single day. It takes weeks and months to break the bad mental habits YOU(ME) got into. But then it took you weeks/months to get there too, so no big deal. Don't expect immediate results (even when medication works it rarely offers instant results either), and accept where you are just today.
Sadly, and this is not to discount at all your incredible achievement, at least from my experience and research, you're an exception to the rule. That said, again, much admiration for having the inner fortitude and discipline to take down the dragon.
Positive thoughts
Sadly, and this is not to discount at all your incredible achievement, at least from my experience and research, you're an exception to the rule. That said, again, much admiration for having the inner fortitude and discipline to take down the dragon.
Medication alone will never 'cure' anxiety problems, as you are not learning the skills necessary to actually tackle the problem. Therapies, excercise, lifestyle changes and even self-help courses and books can be enough if you have the sort of personality to do it that way (and yes it can be done with discipline, and if you have a personal belief that you have the ability to control your own behaviours, I did it myself with stacks of books and self-help over years and lots of effort) . The problem with medication is that , as ankietyjoe alluded to above, when it is removed what then? People tend to believe that they coped only because of the medication and they've not actually addressed the underlying thought processes. A combination of meds and therapies are ideal for many, but sadly often the latter isn't offered and there is a belief that meds alone will magic things away. I've seen it on here many times, people who have started medications and are weeks in, then months, saying 'but its not making it go'. I think also, whilst there is absolutely no shame at all in taking medications and they can be a god-send for some, its worth noting that the British Medical Journal has found that they are prescribed far too often, for too long and often ineffectively.
ankietyjoe
04-03-19, 22:19
Sadly, and this is not to discount at all your incredible achievement, at least from my experience and research, you're an exception to the rule. That said, again, much admiration for having the inner fortitude and discipline to take down the dragon.
Positive thoughts
I cannot agree with you here.
I think the sad part is that people aren't sold the idea that they don't need medication, perhaps especially in the USA.
I was told by my GP that if I didn't take pills, I would not recover, period. The medical profession is simply not set up to help people help themselves. You know yourself that the vast, vast majority of anxiety and panic disorder is caused directly by the person who is suffering, in particular bad thinking habits.
The analogy with being overweight and eating habits is pretty much spot on. People don't want to be fat, but they also don't want to stop eating pizza. At some point you have to make the decision to stop doing the things that are causing you to suffer. People with anxiety don't want to feel panic, but they also don't want to give up the checking, the negative self talk, the reassurance seeking etc. I know, because I used to do all those things, and I'm fat! :doh:
Now the anxiety has all but gone, being UNfat is the next challenge....
Best of luck with getting 'unfat' LOL ! (I like that word)
The medical profession is simply not set up to help people help themselves.
Indeed ! It is empowering to actually be able to say to people, you know what YOU can change this, you can take control.....you don't need a tablet (for your anxiety), but you will need to work hard and follow a process to retrain your thought patterns. I know ankietyjoe and I have been talking about this on another thread currently running on here. People get despondent when they aren't 'cured' by taking an SSRNI, or whatever, and thats because it needs to be in combination with talking therapies....or would the talking therapies alone be sufficient? I think things are the wrong way around, it tends to be that people are offered medication and only later therapies, it should be reversed. Of course there are those who it helps, of course there is a place for meds, but does it always have to be the first port of call ?
(edited to add - I've just remembered why I stayed on the low dose -supposedly non-therapeutic-of my med, derrrr, it is prescribed for menopausal night sweats and flushes and I reckon it is keeping them at a very low level, also I've not had a full blown migraine in 20 years, and its used for that also!)
tons of good insight here. i need to re-read a lot of it. I also want to respond but need to process it all.
i have a therapy appt tomorrow. so that's a start.
unfortunately, i bought ground beef today, and when i pulled it out to cook it, it was brown/gray on one end/middle. i thought i might be able to do it, but i couldn't use it.
ugh.
ankietyjoe
04-03-19, 23:36
Best of luck with getting 'unfat' LOL ! (I like that word)
Indeed ! It is empowering to actually be able to say to people, you know what YOU can change this, you can take control.....you don't need a tablet (for your anxiety), but you will need to work hard and follow a process to retrain your thought patterns. I know ankietyjoe and I have been talking about this on another thread currently running on here. People get despondent when they aren't 'cured' by taking an SSRNI, or whatever, and thats because it needs to be in combination with talking therapies....or would the talking therapies alone be sufficient? I think things are the wrong way around, it tends to be that people are offered medication and only later therapies, it should be reversed. Of course there are those who it helps, of course there is a place for meds, but does it always have to be the first port of call ?
(edited to add - I've just remembered why I stayed on the low dose -supposedly non-therapeutic-of my med, derrrr, it is prescribed for menopausal night sweats and flushes and I reckon it is keeping them at a very low level, also I've not had a full blown migraine in 20 years, and its used for that also!)
The holistic approach is the only way imo, even if the person chooses to use medication as well, is must be backed up with alternative thought patterns.
I've mentioned this elsewhere, but other cultures deal with anxiety/burn-out/nervous breakdown in a hollistic way. In particular, Buddhist retreats offer an environment where you will go to bed early, rise early, eat basic foods, and not a lot of them, get plenty of exercise and meditate a lot. A lot, lot. These retreats are for weeks or months, because they understand that healing is a slow process. You're re-training everything from thought patterns to hormone balances. You can't un-learn years of bad habits in a week or two.
I'm not saying you need to shave your head and wear an orange curtain, but you can't ignore an alternative therapy that has more or less 100% success rates in the absence of substance abuse or trauma.
My experience with meds was positive. My mind was being consumed with negative self talk and poor attitude. It was depression and I knew it. As I've described before, I didn't notice the change, my friends did. They commented on how much more positive I came across. More like the FMP they knew. What the meds did was quiet the negativity and enabled me to focus on the self help things spoken about. It's interesting when you think about it. What does the med actually do to the brain chemistry to quell the negativity and why does it have that effect? I know about seratonin etc. but I believe it's still not proven science like the way a BP or an antibiotic works.
The thing is, what you say makes 100% sense. I agree 10,000% that it takes hard work and dedication and I'm not discounting anything you've said or done AJoe and Carys. I'm not saying that medication is the answer. Again, I'll say that sometimes one needs a crutch while learning to walk on their own again. I know you see that here as clearly as I do.
Positive thoughts
I think meds have their place in treating severely depressed or traumatised patients (eg PTSD). There needs to be a level of awareness and order of the mind to help oneself. A suicidal patient is not going to be interested in talking therapy. Everything in their mind is dead. A patient with severe agitated anxiety and panic is not going to be able to focus the mind long enough for any meaningful form of therapy. They will barely be able to function. We know how anxiety scrambles the mind.
Meds sometimes enable a person to be motivated enough to seek further help. Or for anxiety to become tolerable enough to at least function. If this happens, then recovery is truly possible. But throwing meds at a patient alone rarely works. There must be a change in thinking habits.
A crutch will not make your leg heal. That comes from within. Likewise with mental health recovery.
I think meds have their place...A crutch will not make your leg heal. That comes from within. Likewise with mental health recovery.
My point exactly. True, a crutch doesn't heal a broken leg as meds do not heal a broken mind. That said, a crutch enables you to walk until the leg heals enough to walk on your own. Meds used as a tool can and are beneficial. As we witness here daily, surely, based on your own experience with severe anxiety, they shouldn't be discounted.
Positive thoughts
I am going to discuss this thread with my therapist tomorrow.
Meanwhile, my dog has puked twice and I’m having major anxiety about it. She’s acting fine and I’m sure my husband will take her to the vet if necessary, but I worry about us getting sick from it. Contaminated house etc.
it really is one thing after another
MyNameIsTerry
05-03-19, 04:35
But we also need to remember our doctors will plaster your leg/give you a brace and a crutch. They won't give you a faulty crutch that causes you more pain because it's unsuitable for you.
My analogy of antidepressants is going to a doctor with a broken nose asking if he can help for him to reply "yes but first let me punch you on the nose".
Meds have their place and can help but they are a gamble. The science has never been there, they have been found to help but they don't truly know why. This is why other classes of drugs also work e.g. anti epilepsy, antihistamine, etc.
And the Serotonin myth was busted years ago. It is a factor but it's not the driver they thought and that's what these meds were built on. But over time even that has changed as meds even in the same class work on more neurotransmitters which can introduce even more variation between patients.
Drug companies don't do long term follow up studies. If it shows a positive effect in a trial they get licenced and sit back watching the money roll in. Only medics look into this stuff later.
I agree with Carys and Joe, they are over promoted and also a crutch for the NHS to save them offering the help you really need which they just haven't got. Some people find it gives them the breathing space to fight back but without enough research you come off the med and can sink again. That's what happened to me. I bet you won't find much out there about just how many patients go through that which would indicate big flaws in mental health care.
Go into meds with your eyes open. Expect it may be rough for a while at first. Be skeptical of doctors giving firm assurances because you won't find one in the world who can truly say until science catches up. You may get lucky first time but some have a rockier ride and doctors fail these people in my opinion as they don't understand what 6+ of messing about with these meds can be like (varies by doctor).
I also agree with Joe on holistic approach and time. Even though my second med was a very hard, and long experience due to the errors of my GP, I have found you can slowly work your way through various stages to recover your life to a certain point. This may be possible with or without meds and the same will likely be true of the course recovery takes.
In the worst patients there is an obvious need as KK says although I would add that just slowly bringing down anxiety levels may allow someone to start engaging with therapy (I resisted it but found some things that helped which got me focussed on what I couldn't before) but it's case by case. My attitude now would be to get involved in meds if I couldn't find my own way out of it.
It was depression and I knew it.
....but lets be clear we are talking on this thread primarily about anxiety states, and our opinions about how necessary meds are in that recovery process.
Terry's long post - agree entirely, put eruditely as usual.
Joe - loving the whole buddhist thing you talked about, it makes loads of sense in every regard. I have a book here called 'The Art of Happiness' by Dalai Lama, but thats the only thing I've read and didn't know all that about holistic mental health approach you mention. I TRY (being the operative word) to apply some buddhist approaches about creatures and other humans, but I keep hitting that 'imperfection' barrier lol
KKK -
Meds sometimes enable a person to be motivated enough to seek further help. Or for anxiety to become tolerable enough to at least function. If this happens, then recovery is truly possible. But throwing meds at a patient alone rarely works. There must be a change in thinking habits. Absolutely agree. The trouble is medication, as we know isn't thrown at the 'worst cases' only, its used as a first point of call with nothing else tried...and as Terry said there is no money or support to 'try' other things first for most people.
ankietyjoe
05-03-19, 10:26
I'm not saying you have to embrace a Buddhist lifestyle in order to recover, I personally don't believe in 'The Buddha' or any other religious icon. I do believe however that a spirituality can exist in the human brain in the absence of religion, and that spirituality can be a powerful tool, especially if you remove outside stresses. What I do believe is that the Buddhist lifestyle is the most prominent example of how many cultures live (Aborigines for example live in a similar way). Depression and anxiety are virtually non existent, and there is a reason for that.
I also agree with Fish, KK77 and Terry about the positive elements of taking medication, but these benefits really need to be taken with a pinch of salt. It's actually MORE likely that medication won't help in the short or long term. In the last 20 years, I have had first hand experience with people close to me taking anti depressants and every single time it made things significantly worse, one...extremely seriously. It's basically a lottery.
Terry is also correct about the 'serotonin myth', and this just illustrates that modern medicine is best left to physical trauma and dealing with infections. It's similar to the cholesterol myth which is now being massively debunked. In essence, the presence of cholesterol is not an issue, it's a side effect of a wider problem and inflammation. It's like blaming firefighters for a burning building simply because they are there every time.
Anyway........
Find your calm, practice your calm, stop eating crap, stop smoking, stop drinking, stop googling and get your ass out into the woods and trees. We are not built to sit indoors eating crap and googling about our inevitable doom.
I do believe however that a spirituality can exist in the human brain in the absence of religion
No, don't worry, I get what you were saying......the power of the mind and all that (Im agnostic). I've always liked their spirituality approaches, they made a lot of sense to me and using the positivity of nature and our own minds is something I strongly believe in. We have an epidemic in modern civilisation, of mental health issues, and humans look for a quick simple 'fix' but often it is a different approach which will bear long-term results.
MyNameIsTerry
05-03-19, 12:01
KKK - Absolutely agree. The trouble is medication, as we know isn't thrown at the 'worst cases' only, its used as a first point of call with nothing else tried...and as Terry said there is no money or support to 'try' other things first for most people.:ohmy: No More Pointy hats! :biggrin:
No More Pointy hats!
Oooppssss, lose a K methinks. :roflmao:
"I know when I'm licked.... All over" - Frank Zappa
Positive thoughts
Oooppssss, lose a K methinks. :roflmao:
I had 5 silent calls already today! :lac:
I am so sorry LOL I have literally no idea why I added another K, I must have been reading some dubious/concerning US news or something on twitter beforehand.
MyNameIsTerry
05-03-19, 17:08
It couldn't have come at a worse time really. He'd just finished his washing and was hanging out some light coloured sheets :winks:
It couldn't have come at a worse time really. He'd just finished his washing and was hanging out some light coloured sheets
:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:
Awww gawddddddd
It couldn't have come at a worse time really. He'd just finished his washing and was hanging out some light coloured sheets :winks:
Then a burning mattress came over the fence! :ohmy:
Those pointy hats should be BANNED! :lac:
y'all have gone astray! NO KKK please. :O
my appt is in about an hour.
i want to maximize my time. what nuggets should i get to first?
y'all have gone astray! ...what nuggets should i get to first?
Chicken nuggets... extra dipping sauce please ;)
Positive thoughts
ok, so, fishmanpa.
i'm not trying to argue, or really get reassurance, i just want to get to some info, and discussion.
with chicken. to me, when i open chicken, most of the time it smells. stinky. like a fart. like i said. it stinks. there are sometimes when it doesn't.
so, my thinking is, well, it should not stink. i think if it stunk all the time, i might actually feel better. but since it doesn't stink sometimes, well, then i think it shouldn't ever.
so, you say my thinking is skewed, which i'm sure it is....but if it stinks to me, and meat that has gone bad stinks, then how can i NOT make that connection? seriously? like i really want to know what smell is ok. and unfortunately, the fact that it doesn't stink sometimes, reinforces the idea that the stinky smell i sometimes get must be bad.
and i don't want to risk food poisoning my son.
ankietyjoe
05-03-19, 19:05
When meat is wrapped in plastic, it will smell. Open it up, leave it on a plate in the fridge for an hour and then see if it smells.
In the UK, plastic wrapping often has instructions to open the meat and leave it out for a while to let the smell dissipate.
ok, so, fishmanpa.
i'm not trying to argue, or really get reassurance, i just want to get to some info, and discussion.
with chicken. to me, when i open chicken, most of the time it smells. stinky. like a fart. like i said. it stinks. there are sometimes when it doesn't.
so, my thinking is, well, it should not stink. i think if it stunk all the time, i might actually feel better. but since it doesn't stink sometimes, well, then i think it shouldn't ever.
so, you say my thinking is skewed, which i'm sure it is....but if it stinks to me, and meat that has gone bad stinks, then how can i NOT make that connection? seriously? like i really want to know what smell is ok. and unfortunately, the fact that it doesn't stink sometimes, reinforces the idea that the stinky smell i sometimes get must be bad.
and i don't want to risk food poisoning my son.
Ever smell Durian fruit? How about stinky cheese? There are a lot of foods that have an odor. IMO, your aversion to raw chicken, handling it, the perceived smell etc. is purely psychological. Like I said, every night I take a piece of raw chicken breast, cut it up and feed our cat. Been doing it for over 8 years. I purposely took a big whiff of his food last night and frankly, my perception of the smell is 100% different than yours. My wife and I enjoy chicken, beef, fish and seafood regularly and I can't recall the last time either of us got sick from it. Again I go back to common sense food handling.
These are just words on a screen. No matter how much sense they make or what the reality is, your mind just can't see the trees through the leaves. This is something I'm sure will be addressed when you start therapy.
Positive thoughts
I get what you are saying about the smell actually, I've been vegetarian for like 20 years but I cook meat for the family - when I open up the packaging, particularly chicken, it smells awful to me and I've often wondered if it is 'off'. I have actually asked others to come and smell it before now, but they say 'yeah, chicken smells like that'. However, I always go with the policy that if I cook it well enough everything will be killed lol I thought that was me not understanding what meat smells like anymore. Good advice from ankietyj.
I've just done a little checking, and apparently some people say that they package it with sulphur dioxide, instead of air, in the packaging. This is to inhibit bacterial growth. So, possibly we are sensitive to smell and wiffing that ??? Mind, someone will come along shortly who is far more knowledgeable about food processing and tell me thats complete rubbish. :yesyes:
AMomentofClarity
05-03-19, 19:13
ok, so, fishmanpa.
i'm not trying to argue, or really get reassurance, i just want to get to some info, and discussion.
with chicken. to me, when i open chicken, most of the time it smells. stinky. like a fart. like i said. it stinks. there are sometimes when it doesn't.
so, my thinking is, well, it should not stink. i think if it stunk all the time, i might actually feel better. but since it doesn't stink sometimes, well, then i think it shouldn't ever.
so, you say my thinking is skewed, which i'm sure it is....but if it stinks to me, and meat that has gone bad stinks, then how can i NOT make that connection? seriously? like i really want to know what smell is ok. and unfortunately, the fact that it doesn't stink sometimes, reinforces the idea that the stinky smell i sometimes get must be bad.
and i don't want to risk food poisoning my son.
What % of the time are you suggesting chicken stinks?
Your verbiage implies often/most/more often than not. There’s no way you’re buying rotten chicken more than half the time in the US. It’s literally impossible. That would narrow it down to your perceptions.
i'm saying 80% of the time it stinks. and rationally i know that i'm not getting bad chicken that often. but i'd rather it stink all the time or not at all!! cause when i get some that doesn't stink, i think yep, those other times it really was bad.
i buy the same brand each time. i'm actually scared to switch brands(OCD)even though the brand i buys stinks!! (that's just weird, explain that one).
anyway, i think that ankie may be right. it seems like if i let it air out a minute, then it might not stink as much. and carys....sulphur dioxided sounds like it would smell like a fart! :) lol
you guys are the best. please stick with me. i'm off to therapy. xo
And now my teenage son has a fever. And we are supposed to go to Miami Thursday for my father in laws funeral.
AMomentofClarity
06-03-19, 00:38
And now my teenage son has a fever..
Me too....it’s that time of year. I’m partial to the Alka Selzer day/night depending on time of day. I’m able t pretty much go about my day mostly unaffected.
Me too....it’s that time of year. I’m partial to the Alka Selzer day/night depending on time of day. I’m able t pretty much go about my day mostly unaffected.
Can you come live with us? 😢
MyNameIsTerry
06-03-19, 01:46
This might sound like a daft question to our US folks but the whole Brexit thing has brought up lots of people moaning about US meat standards because you chrolinate. Could the smell be that?
This might sound like a daft question to our US folks but the whole Brexit thing has brought up lots of people moaning about US meat standards because you chrolinate. Could the smell be that?
no. it's definitely a fart smell, not a bleach smell. LOL
no. it's definitely a fart smell, not a bleach smell. LOL
OKaaaayyyy lets go with sulphur dioxide then lol
lol. so, today my son has the fever. low grade. we did have the flu shot this year. i wouldn't be too terribly worried(just normal worried)but we are flying to miami tomorrow for my father in laws funeral. my son's grandfather. do we still go? if me and my son don't go, then i'll be here alone for 3 days with a sick child. and worried to death.
my husband says we will still go if my son feels like going. i'm taking him to the dr at 3 for a flu test. he seems to be ok. just a low grade fever so far. no other symptoms.
so, just wondering, what would you do?
i'm just disappointed. i need some space to heal myself. i need to have a little time without illness or worry, to get a grip on myself. why can't i just have some time like that to regroup. i just feel so fragile.
i took a step yesterday, and got back into therapy....pray i get some time to take care of myself.
AMomentofClarity
06-03-19, 17:11
First and foremost, I’m very sorry to hear about your FIL. That’s obviously a difficult situation, would be for anyone.
In terms of your other “illnesses and worries”.....I don’t mean this to sound as harsh as it probably will, but I think a lot of it is things that you’ve concocted or catastrophized in your mind. You’re throwing perfectly good food away because you perceive it as bad. You’re actively seeking out things to worry about....shower water, AA battery acid, etc. The reality is these worries are illogical. As long as your mind is stirring these things up, you’re not going to get the break you’re looking for. You need to try some of the therapy techniques you’ve been taught in terms of challenging the negative thoughts and catastrophic thinking, and convincing your mind to see situations for what they really are vs what you’re worried they could be.
i hear you.
but, my mind didn't stir up a fever. :( or a funeral.
i'm just so exhausted.
These things are beyond your control, yes, but how you react to them doesn't have to be.
These things are beyond your control, yes, but how you react to them doesn't have to be.
true.
flu test was negative. still running a fever. but we are going to go. he'll wear a mask on the plane and we will try not to infect anyone else.
but i think it's important for him to go to his grandfather's funeral.
stressful to say the least.
hi i'm baaaaaack :)
i want to find out from y'all what you think i can do to focus my attention on getting over my food safety fears. these seem to be causing me the most anxiety, since we have to eat. to add to that, i am losing weight and i DO NOT need to. i need to eat more. so. i want to try to change the way i think but i'm having a hard time.
i feel like a need a food safety expert to tell me some things, so that i can remind myself that these things are ok, like the brown ground beef thing. but, i do not know any food safety experts, and i don't want to google, so i'm hoping some folks on this forum know the answers to some of my questions, just from their own research(i know some of you have food safety fears too)
i will be starting small - the meet and chicken thing may be on the end of the list.
recently, a bagged lettuce that i have bought seem to expand after i bought it. this has me convinced that this is from botulism. i know a can will bulge if it's possibly got botulism, so in my head, maybe a bag would also do that.
so, that is my first question that i need answered(not reassurance, just information), can bagged lettuce get botulism? is the bag bulging a sign of botulism?
also, pimentos and pickles and olive jars. do they have to POP when you open them? seems like they never do. can that have botulism? or jarred tostidos salsa? it has a pop up type lid, but honestly sometimes, i don't even realize if it's popped or not when i open it.
dented cans. i spend so much time in the grocery looking for the perfect can. it cannot have any dents. no matter how small. it cannot look off kilter, or have a suspected raised part(bulge), no matter how small. i actually dread the canned aisle the most.
avocado. boy do i miss avocado. the fda said to wash them now. i've always heard that rinsing/washing something does not actually remove bacteria like listeria, ecoli, salmonella. i also have a hard time thinking of that stuff being in my sink. so wash it how? with what? soap? will just water really get off the listeria that could be there? do i wear gloves? OMG. the avocado thing is the hardest. i love them. they are good for me. i used to eat one like everyday.
it's a good breakfast for me to gain weight.
so, i know some of you might think of this as reassurance seeking, (fishmanpa, i'm looking at you) HAHA - but i'm looking at it as information gathering. i would totally love to look this stuff up, and come away with the facts, but google always steers me wrong. I want to try to quit avoiding foods, but i need to know that i can trust myself and to do that, i need to have the factual information.
also. i'm sad. because the reality is, i will likely never be able to enjoy the grocery store, or an avocado again. even if i push through, and start to do it despite the anxiety, it will always lurk. just like the hotel situation i still have. i got myself a huge bed bug fear about 8 years ago....and now, even though i will go to a hotel, i do not enjoy it at all. i still dread it.
i just don't know that i can live with the dread on a daily basis.
i think that's why my anxiety is so bad. because i have to eat every day. there is not any relief.
ok. so, any help to get me started on what you think my first step should be. exposure? what CBT stuff would be relevant here?
i don't have therapy again for 2 weeks....so i'd like to get a jump start.
thanks y'all
xo
ok. so, any help to get me started on what you think my first step should be. exposure? what CBT stuff would be relevant here?
i don't have therapy again for 2 weeks....so i'd like to get a jump start.
Truly, this is a question for your therapist as he/she will have a good assessment of where you're at and what would be the most beneficial for you. There's no harm in downloading the http://cbt4panic.org/ in the mean time. Everyone is different and what one gets from it will be different than another. Do some reading and exercises and see what works for you.
Positive thoughts
pimentos and pickles and olive jars. do they have to POP when you open them?
OK, theres loads there.....I'll start lol
When you buy it look at the lid, does it have the 'pop' up circle thing on it or not. Not all jars are sealed this way, or need to be, it should say on it (on the top) if it is a pop up lid or not. If it is a pop-up one - Press it down, if nothing happens then it is properly sealed. As the jar is opened on a pop up one, you will hear a pop as you open it, then press down on the circle again and you will see it goes in and out, which it didn't do before you broke the seal.
ON other jars they use different ways of sealing, and there might be a little anti-tamper paper thing or some other 'anti-tamper' notification, those are usually used on jars that aren't vacuum sealed.
AMomentofClarity
11-03-19, 20:41
Just an observation, more to provide insight into your frame of mind.....
You ask a load of questions and ask for responses with the caveat “its not for reassurance.” You can tell yourself that as many times as you want, but it’s still reassurance. Nobody without anxiety is asking if their lettuce is changing sizes or has botulism.
the other catch to that is no matter how many people tell you it’s fine, it’s not going to matter. You’re going to throw it out if the mood strikes you. It’s classic anxiety regardless how you frame it. You should work to challenge these thoughts/fears rather than seeking input here. CBT should absolutely help with that.
i love them. they are good for me. i used to eat one like everyday.
YOu have to challenge yourself on this avocado thing! It was after you told me about the listeria thing that I started washing them, never had before and never been ill.....but once I knew it argghhhh. I use a washing sponge and washing liquid and warm water, same as I do when I was about to use an orange, lemon or lime for zest (to get wax and stuff off). Give it was a wash over, as if doing a plate and then rinse and use. DO it udner running water and you could use a kind of potato brush or something.
Just an observation, more to provide insight into your frame of mind.....
You ask a load of questions and ask for responses with the caveat “its not for reassurance.” You can tell yourself that as many times as you want, but it’s still reassurance. Nobody without anxiety is asking if their lettuce is changing sizes or has botulism.
the other catch to that is no matter how many people tell you it’s fine, it’s not going to matter. You’re going to throw it out if the mood strikes you. It’s classic anxiety regardless how you frame it. You should work to challenge these thoughts/fears rather than seeking input here. CBT should absolutely help with that.
i see where you are coming from. i just want to differienciate between the fears i have made up in my head, and factual food safety. for example, keeping your fridge at a certain temp is required for food safety. i KNOW this. there are some things, i don't know that pop up. like the lettuce thing. i thought it was weird that the lettuce bag became a little swollen. but i don't know for sure if this is a safety thing or not. and google is not my friend.
i can see where it does cross the reassurance line...but i feel like if i have these tools(facts), then maybe i can have the ability to reassure myself. and it's baby steps.now, maybe in a few weeks, months whatever, i would be able to answer these questions for myself with common sense. but my anxiety is so high these days over this topic, that i am not being rationale, and i need some good info to rely on.
i'm planning on working to challenge fears. I hope to work on that along side trying not to avoid things anymore, and doing some exposure therapy.
any input that y'all have on how to challenge fears(i've never done CBT), or anything else is welcome.
as i said, i don't see my therapist for a while and i want to get started on my own while i wait.
i can see where it does cross the reassurance line...but i feel like if i have these tools(facts)#
I do see where you are coming from on this actually, as you feel you will be better able to rationalise if you have proper facts and sometimes educating yourself (for some people) can help them understand what is real risk and what is perceived risk only. It helped me with my food contamination issues years ago - I would have thrown out (and did) mince that was brown in the middle and then learnt it was like that for a perfectly normal reason.
YOu have to challenge yourself on this avocado thing! It was after you told me about the listeria thing that I started washing them, never had before and never been ill.....but once I knew it argghhhh. I use a washing sponge and washing liquid and warm water, same as I do when I was about to use an orange, lemon or lime for zest (to get wax and stuff off). Give it was a wash over, as if doing a plate and then rinse and use. DO it udner running water and you could use a kind of potato brush or something.
i know. i'm thinking the avocado is where i need to start. it seems so scary though. i wish i had never read that stupid article. damn facebook. :) what "washing liquid" do you use? i'm thinking i could use a paper towel, so i can just throw it away after using it.
oh and thanks for the info on the popping lids. I didn't realize that they would TELL me on the lid if it needed to pop. thanks for that.
i'm planning on working to challenge fears. I hope to work on that along side trying not to avoid things anymore, and doing some exposure therapy.
any input that y'all have on how to challenge fears(i've never done CBT), or anything else is welcome.
as i said, i don't see my therapist for a while and i want to get started on my own while i wait.
You can make a (free) 'start' yourself here: https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?221967-Free-CBT-Prog-at-CBT4Panic
oh and thanks for the info on the popping lids. I didn't realize that they would TELL me on the lid if it needed to pop. thanks for that.
Well, bear in mind we are in different countries, so I don't know if the labelling is different.....but it should say it somewhere on it., around lid edge or label or something
I just tried to upload a picture of one, but it failed...anyway in a circle across the top it says ' safety button, tamper evident, pops up when seal is broken'.
AS for dented tins, no issue AT ALL.
AMomentofClarity
11-03-19, 21:08
i'm planning on working to challenge fears. I hope to work on that along side trying not to avoid things anymore, and doing some exposure therapy.
any input that y'all have on how to challenge fears(i've never done CBT), or anything else is welcome.
as i said, i don't see my therapist for a while and i want to get started on my own while i wait.
Of course what works for me might not work for others, but to me thought challenging all comes down to facts. Like the avocado thing....that study came out that says avocados have listeria on their shells. But the reality is, it was in less than 20% tested, so that automatically reduces your chances to 1/5. And the main question....how many people have ACTUALLY gotten listeria from an avocado. Few to none. You have to accept that there’s risks to anything. And while common sense should be exercised , you can’t avoid everything. That’s where the exposure therapy you mention is effective.
Here's the thing. If you really think having facts will help, you can easily Google common sense food safety (don't Google rule exception ;)) There are the government guidelines and sites filled with reputable information. Asking on the forum throws in the reassurance caveat. Inevitably, by posting, it will come back "I just read 'xyz' on foodsafety.gov and it said 'abc'. Do you think that's true?" :shades:
Positive thoughts
I'm not sure about the avocado thing; how best to approach it. I use a normal shop's own liquid, nothing special. I use my usual washing sponge, and yep, I use it again for weeks afterwards.....lol
It says in the avocado advice to wash under running warm water. I don't think it really matters how you decide to do it, just do whatever you want to do the first time, then remove a stage here and there. So, if you use gloves and papertowel first time, and eat some then thats great. Then next time don't do it with gloves etc
i have one more...olive oil and botulism.
can you get botulism from olive oil that has been opened, and sitting in a cabinet kinda near the stove top? it doesn't get hot there. tonight when i opened the olive oil plastic bottle cap tonight, it kinda popped up, and the plastic bottle felt like it had a little too much air in it.
also the oil often leaks down the bottle, and sits in the cabinet until i get tired of it about once a year and wipe it up. can you get botulism from oil that is sitting there for a long time?
yeah. i'm in a panic.
damnit.
sorry. y'all this isn't easy.
i need to know if this is ok.
olive oil and botulism.
can you get botulism from olive oil that has been opened, and sitting in a cabinet kinda near the stove top? it doesn't get hot there. tonight when i opened the olive oil plastic bottle cap tonight, it popped up,like it was expanded and the plastic bottle felt like it had a too much air in it.
also the oil often leaks down the bottle, and sits in the cabinet until i get tired of it about once a year and wipe it up. can you get botulism from oil that is sitting there for a long time?
nomorepanic
11-03-19, 23:17
I don't think we should be constantly reassuring you over all these things. You need to work it out yourself and really think about it.
Well I don’t want to google botulism. But honestly the whole reason it crossed my mind was because I read on this forum one time about someone freaking out about botulism and they were concerned because of oil being left out, and if I had never read that I guess it would never have crossed my mind. So I would at least like to get some info about this
nomorepanic
11-03-19, 23:37
So read the replies they got - what did everyone say to them?
I meant I read about it along time ago. Not recently. Maybe I should search it. Obviously they were fine.
nomorepanic
11-03-19, 23:45
Yeah search for it and then you can read what the replies were.
You do need to stop asking us for reassurance though as it is not helpful and you have to learn to find things out for yourself.
venusbluejeans
12-03-19, 00:18
This is just a courtesy reply to let you know that your thread was merged with another of your threads.
Please when posting on similar topics add it onto your previous post rather than starting a new one.
It is nothing personal it is just to make it easier for people to follow your story and to give you advice as a whole.
Emmz
Yeah search for it and then you can read what the replies were.
You do need to stop asking us for reassurance though as it is not helpful and you have to learn to find things out for yourself.
So you’re suggesting that I get reassurance but just not from this forum? So I should google? Search this forum? What’s the difference? Well I’ll tell you. If I ask here then I can get some facts. If I google or search I will get other people’s stories in a panic which is a huge trigger or on google it is a huge rabbit hole and will likely trigger something else. I’m just trying to get help from someone who maybe has been down this road.
I get what you’re saying, don’t get me wrong. But over and over reassurance about the same exact thing is different than getting facts from someone who may have some knowledge on the subject.
Thanks for your concern though. I am trying
AMomentofClarity
12-03-19, 00:47
So you’re suggesting that I get reassurance but just not from this forum? So I should google? Search this forum? What’s the difference? Well I’ll tell you. If I ask here then I can get some facts. If I google or search I will get other people’s stories in a panic which is a huge trigger or on google it is a huge rabbit hole and will likely trigger something else. I’m just trying to get help from someone who maybe has been down this road.
I get what you’re saying, don’t get me wrong. But over and over reassurance about the same exact thing is different than getting facts from someone who may have some knowledge on the subject.
Thanks for your concern though. I am trying
A couple of things....first, what you’re doing is absolutely seeking reassurance. If I say “I’ve had a sore throat for a week,I’m worried about cancer. I’d like some ‘facts’ from anyone else who’s had the same and didn’t have cancer”......it’s still reassurance. Just because I’m approaching it and wording it differently, I’m still asking for someone to tell me I don’t have cancer. Just like you’re asking someone to tell you your olive oil doesn’t have botulism.
The reason that seeking reassurance constantly is bad is it becomes a compulsion. You get dependent on it. Once there, you completely give up on trying to sort things out yourself. You run onto here at the first sign of any worry, looking for comfort. Yes, reassurance feels so good in the short term. But an inability to help yourself, where does it leave you in the long run? Until you address the negative thoughts on your own, the core anxiety will persist, no matter how many people write you words on a screen.
why not start by trying to think through the olive oil situation yourself. The answer is obvious and doesn’t require Google.
A couple of things....first, what you’re doing is absolutely seeking reassurance. If I say “I’ve had a sore throat for a week,I’m worried about cancer. I’d like some ‘facts’ from anyone else who’s had the same and didn’t have cancer”......it’s still reassurance. Just because I’m approaching it and wording it differently, I’m still asking for someone to tell me I don’t have cancer. Just like you’re asking someone to tell you your olive oil doesn’t have botulism.
The reason that seeking reassurance constantly is bad is it becomes a compulsion. You get dependent on it. Once there, you completely give up on trying to sort things out yourself. You run onto here at the first sign of any worry, looking for comfort. Yes, reassurance feels so good in the short term. But an inability to help yourself, where does it leave you in the long run? Until you address the negative thoughts on your own, the core anxiety will persist, no matter how many people write you words on a screen.
why not start by trying to think through the olive oil situation yourself. The answer is obvious and doesn’t require Google.
Thank you. I always appreciate your responses. Very well put. I do understand reassurance seeking is compulsive. But if I already knew all the facts about botulism, like how I do for day breast cancer, then yes I could handle the situation myself. But I don’t. I really don’t know anything except what I’ve been exposed to one here....hmm
There's a difference between looking up valid and reputable information (The CDC, FDA etc.) and getting other people's horror stories. There is a conscious choice on what you click and choose to read. If you choose to click on the horror stories, that's self sabotage and totally on you. If you choose to read facts and real statistics and apply them logically to your situation, you avoid the panic and hopefully can apply that to future food contamination fears.
I think the root of this fear needs to be addressed as it's clearly affecting your life and the lives of your family. Getting a tidbit of information or reassurance here isn't the long term solution... It's not really even a short term answer as it just feeds the dragon.
What AMOC said was spot on.
Positive thoughts
There's a difference between looking up valid and reputable information (The CDC, FDA etc.) and getting other people's horror stories. There is a conscious choice on what you click and choose to read. If you choose to click on the horror stories, that's self sabotage and totally on you. If you choose to read facts and real statistics and apply them logically to your situation, you avoid the panic and hopefully can apply that to future food contamination fears.
I think the root of this fear needs to be addressed as it's clearly affecting your life and the lives of your family. Getting a tidbit of information or reassurance here isn't the long term solution... It's not really even a short term answer as it just feeds the dragon.
What AMOC said was spot on.
Positive thoughts
I hear you.
I’m trying to get started on a new approach. And the root of the fear would be something nice to figure out. Actually I think Someone hit the nail on the head a few pages back when they talk about self confidence and trusting myself.
But in the meantime, I need some forms of support. I appreciate that the idea of just looking at reputable websites and trying to be specific when researching sounds reasonable. But, I’ve been there done that. I know me: and unfortunately any website has little nuggets that can trigger something. I won’t do it for this. So, i understand where y’all are coming from. I hope y’all know I’m just trying to figure things out .
MyNameIsTerry
12-03-19, 04:48
Then it would be better for you if we restricted our responses in the way a therapist would to avoid giving reassurance. You ask something, and it will be loaded with what AMOC explained in terms of language, but we respond in the form of questioning how you will find what you need, if you even need to look for it and what your re framed conclusion is.
I have't read the replies since last night, haven't got time - but I'm still going to answer the oil question, even though it looks like other people don't agree with that approach. It is expansion of air in the bottle that causes the llid to pop, warm oil and air, more space needed. Pop. I get what cofo is trying to do here and if it means she starts using things, eating properly and loses some of her fears it will give her more success in the future with rationalising. Building the skills to have more confidence in yourself to reassure can work.
I have't read the replies since last night, haven't got time - but I'm still going to answer the oil question, even though it looks like other people don't agree with that approach. It is expansion of air in the bottle that causes the llid to pop, warm oil and air, more space needed. Pop. I get what cofo is trying to do here and if it means she starts using things, eating properly and loses some of her fears it will give her more success in the future with rationalising. Building the skills to have more confidence in yourself to reassure can work.
thank you. you are right. I know i'm walking a fine line. I'm very appreciative of the responses you have given me carys.
and, it already kinda helped. with the oil, i actually wondered if maybe it had to do with warm air expansion, but of course, my brain is caught in a loop of food fears, and it's super hard to get out of that on your own. but now, since i have some facts, i can remind myself that i actually KNEW the answer to that one, and that i should start to trust myself a little.
i know that all of you are trying to help me. and everyone's input is taken to heart. my take on this forum is as a "group therapy" session. it's not to replace my regular therapy. but in support of that. I think that finding people who have had the same fears as me, or who have similar anxiety, is beneficial to know that it's "normal". Also, talking things over with people in "group therapy" to get some info on fears, (ie. like how is HIV transmitted, or in my case, is brown meat safe?)is better than going down the google train.
don't give up on me. i appreciate you all.
i know that all of you are trying to help me. and everyone's input is taken to heart. my take on this forum is as a "group therapy" session.
Yes, you are right, everything everybody says is useful.....who is to know what will 'click' and work. All the different approaches people have feed into the grand scheme of things. Good for you cofo, you are try really hard.
Nobody is going to give up on you !!!!
I honestly understand what you are feeling right now. Decades ago I got stuck in a loop of 'contamination/food poisoning' type worries, the more I gave them validity the more restrictions to my eating appeared. Avoidance didn't make things more secure, it sent another fear following right behind it....hand washing, surface cleaning, best before dates, use by dates, poisoning other people, meat that looked odd, jars that I wasn't sure about, packets that MIGHT have a tiny hole, has a can got a bump and its rusted inside and contaminated things, other people preparing food arrrgh, eating out arrrghh...the list went on and on and got longer the more I avoided. I wouldn't say I was as limited as you, but I think I would have got that way given time. I felt that my totally out of perspective fears were based on a lack of understanding of some things, so I wasn't able to rationalise as I didn't have a firm basis of understanding about what was potentially a real risk and what wasn't a real potential risk. I was lucky enough/am lucky enough to have a family who are scientific, if I asked a question (as you do here) they were able to answer with complete logic and with kinda biological facts. Once I had that knowledge I was fine with using/trying/having the item.
For example - Best before dates literally mean nowt to me now, totally useable even after years and years lol Use by dates, there is a margin of error things can't go off literally at a specified time, so I will and have used and eaten as long as I have done some smell and sight checks. I use my senses now and trust them to make judgements, far too much food is wasted worldwide and it is partly people following dates too closely when they don't need to. I follow good food hygiene rules (and no I don't use antibacterial sprays or bleach on things!), and will only eat out at places with a 4 or 5 start food hygiene rating LOL but am no longer affected by concerns about contamination that could cause illness. This didn't all happen overnight that I was able to move forwards, and sometimes I literally had to force myself to eat/do something that felt uncomfortable - but as I had successes and didn't fall ill, my eating world got larger and I regained the ability to make reasonable judgements which I had lost over time. My choices were so out of perspective, that I felt that I needed outside input to bring them back into some sort of reasonable persepctive, which is why you ask the questions you do.
The key to it though is never ask twice (about a specfici thing)! Thats where the process can be delayed. Once you have an answer/opinion, you then need to use that yourself and internalise it. No matter how uncomfortable it feels, how much you want to ask again as you 'still aren't sure', you need to move on and use the facts to reassure yourself.
I need to read this thread, I have so many of these worries about food. I didn’t realise how common it was. Hugs cofo, you’re not alone x
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I honestly understand what you are feeling right now. Decades ago I got stuck in a loop of 'contamination/food poisoning' type worries, the more I gave them validity the more restrictions to my eating appeared. Avoidance didn't make things more secure, it sent another fear following right behind it....hand washing, surface cleaning, best before dates, use by dates, poisoning other people, meat that looked odd, jars that I wasn't sure about, packets that MIGHT have a tiny hole, has a can got a bump and its rusted inside and contaminated things, other people preparing food arrrgh, eating out arrrghh...the list went on and on and got longer the more I avoided. I wouldn't say I was as limited as you, but I think I would have got that way given time. I felt that my totally out of perspective fears were based on a lack of understanding of some things, so I wasn't able to rationalise as I didn't have a firm basis of understanding about what was potentially a real risk and what wasn't a real potential risk. I was lucky enough/am lucky enough to have a family who are scientific, if I asked a question (as you do here) they were able to answer with complete logic and with kinda biological facts. Once I had that knowledge I was fine with using/trying/having the item.
For example - Best before dates literally mean nowt to me now, totally useable even after years and years lol Use by dates, there is a margin of error things can't go off literally at a specified time, so I will and have used and eaten as long as I have done some smell and sight checks. I use my senses now and trust them to make judgements, far too much food is wasted worldwide and it is partly people following dates too closely when they don't need to. I follow good food hygiene rules (and no I don't use antibacterial sprays or bleach on things!), and will only eat out at places with a 4 or 5 start food hygiene rating LOL but am no longer affected by concerns about contamination that could cause illness. This didn't all happen overnight that I was able to move forwards, and sometimes I literally had to force myself to eat/do something that felt uncomfortable - but as I had successes and didn't fall ill, my eating world got larger and I regained the ability to make reasonable judgements which I had lost over time. My choices were so out of perspective, that I felt that I needed outside input to bring them back into some sort of reasonable persepctive, which is why you ask the questions you do.
The key to it though is never ask twice (about a specfici thing)! Thats where the process can be delayed. Once you have an answer/opinion, you then need to use that yourself and internalise it. No matter how uncomfortable it feels, how much you want to ask again as you 'still aren't sure', you need to move on and use the facts to reassure yourself.
I love this response, Carys. I have very similar fears and they also limit my eating over time. I have found, too, that if I force myself to eat something I will be able to quickly get over the fear, so I try to do this in small steps over time. I also try to think back to when I didn't have anxiety. I spent most years of my life eating everything without worry and never got food poisoning, so there's no reason to think I would now other than my anxiety.
ok, so not once during my son's illness of just a fever/headache for 5 days did i wonder if maybe he had a brain eating amoeba. But now, i'm wondering if he may have. I have just put two and two together, so hear me out. sometimes my water smells like what we call "pond" water. . we are on the county/city water supply, not a well or anything. we've been at this house for over 20 years and we've always had this issue. it's not all the time, but maybe once a month or so.
is this normal? when it does happen, we only smell it when we unload clean dishes and they just smell like pond water...or occasionally i'll notice it when my housekeeper wipes the counters with just water, it makes my counters smell. i wiped my counter today and didn't smell it. I've never noticed it anywhere but the kitchen. does this happen to anyone else at their house? now, i'm scared maybe it's our water pipes and they are compromised(old house)and somehow "bad" water is getting into my pipes. is this even possible? i didn't dream up the smell, and honestly, it's never worried me too much. i don't like it, but didn't think it was harmful. but maybe i'm wrong.
or occasionally i'll notice it when my housekeeper wipes the counters with just water
I suspect it far more likely that it is the sponge/cloth that smells odd and is transferring that smell to the surfaces.
You have a 1 in 20 million chance of contacting the 'brain eating amoeba'.
I suspect it far more likely that it is the sponge/cloth that smells odd and is transferring that smell to the surfaces.
i wish that is what it was, but it's not. it's the clean dishes from the dishwasher that smell. and she uses a clean rag to wipe down, not a sponge. we've always just kinda laughed it off. and we redid our kitchen about 5 years ago, and asked the plumber and he said he thought it was just an old dishwasher. so i thought it would go away when we got the new kitchen. it didn't. but what if our water is compromised? this literally just dawned on me. i didn't even think about our pond water smell when i was scared cause i got the water in my ear a couple of weeks ago. we are just so used to it, just another quirky thing about our house, that i don't like, but i didn't think was harmful, until i connected it to brain eating amoebas just now.
AMomentofClarity
12-03-19, 18:59
Yes, reassurance feels so good in the short term. But an inability to help yourself, where does it leave you in the long run? Until you address the negative thoughts on your own, the core anxiety will persist, no matter how many people write you words on a screen..
I wrote this yesterday at 8:47p. It didn’t take long to repeat the reassurance cycle did it?
ok, so not once during my son's illness of just a fever/headache for 5 days did i wonder if maybe he had a brain eating amoeba. But now, i'm wondering if he may have. I have just put two and two together
I don't know where you learned math but 2 plus 2 doesn't equal 237,487,543. Here's a calculator (https://www.online-calculator.com/) if you don't believe me. You're continuing the ruminations, irrational thoughts and coming here for more reassurance. This is not group therapy as you considerate it. You're using it as your dragon's feeding trough :lac: Have you started feeding your dragon the meds you were prescribed?
Positive thoughts
AMomentofClarity
12-03-19, 19:07
This is not group therapy as you considerate it. You're using it as your dragon's feeding trough :lac:
Absolutely this. Therapy implies an attempt to improve ones condition. Collecting reassurances for the fear de jour is precisely the opposite of that.
Why help yourself when you can hop on here for free pats on the back and rainbows and lollipops?
yep. needing reassurance is a big thing with anxiety isn't it? i'm not surprised that you brought this up. i knew you would. and i wish i was cured already. I'm still working on my other stuff. i haven't abandoned it. i'm actually about to go to the grocery and see what my anxiety has in store for me there. and yes, i wish i had never heard of brain eating amoeba. and i actually wish that the thought of my pond water smell and my son's fever didn't cross my mind. i didn't ask for it to. everyone on this board is asking for reassurance. everyone. and in this case, yep i'm asking for it, AND i'm also trying to face some fears. i can only handle so much at a time. i'm about to break. i want to set aside the BRA/pond water fear and concentrate on getting past my food anxiety. why not just give me some facts instead of pointing out the obvious.
so, let's just leave the brain amoeba fear aside, and let me ask, so, have any of you ever had a pond smell in your water? or your dishes after them coming out of the dishwasher? is this normal occasionally? what could cause this? would you think it could be compromised? would this be something just at my house? could a pipe have a hole in it in the ground and rain water be seeping in somehow?? i just don' t know how these things work really.
i always tell my husband that i wish we had a different house. half of my fears are because i hate my house. it's got asbestos tile, crappy hvac, very humid, which makes it moldy, pipes are really old, we get brown water from georgia clay sediment in the pipes about twice a year because the fire hydrant gets flushed and is right at the end of our driveway, needs new windows, because they are so drafty they get condensation, the ac won't cool it down well in our hot summers because we have vaulted ceilings and big windows and it heats up so much that my fridge cannot rebound during the hot months when the door is open often, the fireplace has some weird thing that made smoke come inside so we had to stop using it.....the list goes on and on. these are things that we live with on a daily basis because we don' t have the enough money to fix it.
and this pond water thing was just one of the many.
I know exactly where you are in your anxiety cycle right now. I'm so sorry that you're spiraling. I've been there and it's awful. My mom's therapist likened anxiety to a bird flying from branch to branch. When you get into this cycle it will just keep finding somewhere new to land, and it seems you're (hopefully) getting to the end. Mine always goes to more and more unreasonable places until it peaks and I finally break the cycle. Botulism and brain eating amoebas are the furthest down the line because they are absolutely not going to happen to you or anyone you know. Even if there were brain eating amoebas all over your house (which they ARE NOT) they'd have to be forcefully shoved up your son's nose for it to be even possible for them to affect him. But, there's absolutely no way he has one. I promise.
My dishwasher smells like pond water sometimes (I liken it to the smell of a fish tank). I read online a while ago that it's most likely from the dishwasher retaining the smell of food left over on the dishes. Look up how to clean your dishwasher with vinegar. This usually takes out the smell. When my dishes smell fishtank-y I usually just run another cycle and they're fine (because that second time there's no food particles on them to make the smell.)
Do you currently have a therapist you can get an appointment with? I usually need to see mine to break this cycle.
Water would have to be "stagnant" for weeks, months, to smell like "pond water", which I assume is what you mean? It would be impossible for this to occur with a chlorinated mains water supply - unless you draw water from a well? :shrug:
Even with a dishwasher - you'd have to not use it for months for water "inside" to smell like pond water.
Have you started the meds?
Positive thoughts
Water would have to be "stagnant" for weeks, months, to smell like "pond water", which I assume is what you mean? It would be impossible for this to occur with a chlorinated mains water supply - unless you draw water from a well? :shrug:
Even with a dishwasher - you'd have to not use it for months for water "inside" to smell like pond water.
well it does. :) i use it every day. we are not on well water.
Is there an expert on plumbing here? Lol. Hey hear are the times when I miss my dad so much. He would be able to tell me what I need to know.
ErinKC - thank you for your response....i really appreciate that you recognize this(sorry you've been there), and are willing to empathize with me. i just started back to therapy last week. so, i'll go again next week. as far as your dishwasher, really? we have another thing in common there? :) i used to only think it was the dishwasher and was related to the food somehow, or maybe the dishwasher filter, but then when i smelled it after my housekeeper had cleaned the kitchen a couple of times, it made me realize it was probably the water, not the dishwasher.
so, just getting water up your nose when you shower wouldn't cause it? like the stream from the shower?
right. (yep, reassurance. ) mic drop. HA.
well it does. :) i use it every day. we are not on well water.
ErinKC - thank you for your response....i really appreciate that you recognize this(sorry you've been there), and are willing to empathize with me. i just started back to therapy last week. so, i'll go again next week. as far as your dishwasher, really? we have another thing in common there? :) i used to only think it was the dishwasher and was related to the food somehow, or maybe the dishwasher filter, but then when i smelled it after my housekeeper had cleaned the kitchen a couple of times, it made me realize it was probably the water, not the dishwasher.
so, just getting water up your nose when you shower wouldn't cause it? like the stream from the shower?
right. (yep, reassurance. ) mic drop. HA.
Yes my dishwasher sometimes smells of water. I don’t call it pond water but I know exactly what you mean.
And no, stop thinking about the brain eating amoeba. Just let that thought go [emoji846]
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Have you started the meds?
Positive thoughts
I think you have a very overly sensitive sense of smell Cofo, lol, what with your 'pond water' and 'off meat' and stuff. I'm being light-hearted and to be truthful I am terrible with having a very acute sense of smell myself, things that don't bother other people always drive me a bit potty - trying to find what is causing certain smells !
Have you started the meds?
Positive thoughts
Not yet. See my other thread on the ocd board ;)
I do hear y’all by the way. I’m listening. It may take some time for me to be able to put your advice to work. I’m not being hard headed I swear. I know y’all know what you’re talking about. Thanks. Thanks for being here for me
I think you have a very overly sensitive sense of smell Cofo, lol, what with your 'pond water' and 'off meat' and stuff. I'm being light-hearted and to be truthful I am terrible with having a very acute sense of smell myself, things that don't bother other people always drive me a bit potty - trying to find what is causing certain smells !
I do!!! It’s a curse. Lol. But the pond water is a known smell in my house, my husband can even smell it. And his nose is not a strong as mine!
Not yet. See my other thread on the ocd board ;)
When you have a physical illness, meds are often used to alleviate symptoms and help to cure the disease. Sometimes, those meds can cause discomfort or side effects but without treatment, things could get really bad or worse. As a survivor of two heart attacks and cancer, I know this intimately. Seems to me your illness is getting worse just based on the written account here.
I have actual physical issues that can put me 6 feet under and I literally take 7 prescriptions and 6 additional OTC meds and supplements. Some of which have unpleasant side effects. If I don't take them, it puts my life at risk. You have a remedy within arms reach... USE IT!
Sadly, there are some here that are truly beyond help and some so deep in the rabbit hole that they can't see the light of day. I can clearly see how deep in the rabbit hole you are but I can also see a glimmer of rationality that's trying to get out. I'm blunt and to the point because I believe you know better and can do better. I believe you have the inner fortitude to sit down and rationalize away these ridiculous and numerically impossible fears.
Prove me right! Start taking the meds! The hell with your glass of wine in the evenings. You need your life back!
Positive thoughts
I do!!! It’s a curse. Lol. But the pond water is a known smell in my house, my husband can even smell it. And his nose is not a strong as mine!
I also have a CRAZY strong sense of smell. I like it because it makes me enjoy food so much (which I suppose is also kind of a curse, haha) but it makes me nuts because I can smell EVERYTHING. It's so hard to find cleaning products that don't give me a headache. I have to use unscented for most things because otherwise the smell overwhelms me.
I have to use unscented for most things because otherwise the smell overwhelms me.
Yes, same here! Perfume gives me a headache if other people wear it, or it just drives me kind of NUTS as I can't stop smelling it. Everything has to be scent free, and my nightmare scenario would be being trapped in a room with one of those plug in electrical airfreshner thingies.
AMomentofClarity
12-03-19, 20:50
Not yet. See my other thread on the ocd board ;)
I do hear y’all by the way. I’m listening. It may take some time for me to be able to put your advice to work. I’m not being hard headed I swear. I know y’all know what you’re talking about. Thanks. Thanks for being here for me
My observation is that you don’t really seem to even try to work through things on your own, you instantly jump on here for reassurance. I mean, just look at the number of different fears that have been covered in the last few days. I would have a very different perspective of you/your post history if you approached things from an angle of having thought about and tried to challenge your fears...such as the fact that brain eating amoeba is EXTREMELY rare, and even rarer in tap water. But instead your posts have more of a “this thought popped into my head, tell me it can’t happen” vibe.
By anyone caving and just telling you what you want to hear, it’s just reinforcing that behavior which does nothing to quell the real issue.
Its exactly why despite all the reassurance given from Carys and Erin today, predictably (although I hope for your sake not), you will most likely be back with a new fear soon.
Yes, same here! Perfume gives me a headache if other people wear it, or it just drives me kind of NUTS as I can't stop smelling it. Everything has to be scent free, and my nightmare scenario would be being trapped in a room with one of those plug in electrical airfreshner thingies.
Omg, yes. Air freshener is horrendous!! It's inconceivable to me that people can spray aerosol air fresheners in their homes. I feel like I'd be smelling it for days!
My observation is that you don’t really seem to even try to work through things on your own, you instantly jump on here for reassurance. I mean, just look at the number of different fears that have been covered in the last few days. I would have a very different perspective of you/your post history if you approached things from an angle of having thought about and tried to challenge your fears...such as the fact that brain eating amoeba is EXTREMELY rare, and even rarer in tap water. But instead your posts have more of a “this thought popped into my head, tell me it can’t happen” vibe.
By anyone caving and just telling you what you want to hear, it’s just reinforcing that behavior which does nothing to quell the real issue.
Its exactly why despite all the reassurance given from Carys and Erin today, predictably (although I hope for your sake not), you will most likely be back with a new fear soon.
I 100% see where you're coming from, but I don't always completely agree that just blurting out the next worry is all about reassurance. For me, just saying outloud the things I'm worrying about - like "I just got terrified of this thing, that's crazy right??" - is, in and of itself, therapeutic. Cofo and I are anxiety soul sisters. We have so, so much in common, and I know - just like me - she knows what she's asking is ridiculous, so sometimes just asking it helps calm the fears. Anxiety is something that takes many tools and approaches to work through, at least for me, and being able to throw our most ridiculous fear out into the ether is absolutely one of them. Since I know some of the things I end up obsessing about are crazy I'm not comfortable talking about them with most people in my real life. That's why this forum can be so beneficial. Often, all it takes is just saying something to see it for what it is. But, often, we don't have anyone to say these things to.
Yes, reassurance is only a temporary fix. But, sometimes temporary fixes are necessary. I have TMJ that causes migraines sometimes. It took a while to work out what was causing the migraines, so at first the only thing I had was taking pain meds to stop them each time they came on. In the longer term, with the help of both my doctor and dentist, I was able to determine the underlying cause and treat it. Surely, no one would have said to me - the Excedrin you're taking isn't solving the root cause of your migraines, so you should stop taking it and focus on finding and stopping what is giving you the headaches. Just like physical medical problems, sometimes you need to focus on both short and long-term solutions simultaneously in order to survive.
When you have a physical illness, meds are often used to alleviate symptoms and help to cure the disease. Sometimes, those meds can cause discomfort or side effects but without treatment, things could get really bad or worse. As a survivor of two heart attacks and cancer, I know this intimately. Seems to me your illness is getting worse just based on the written account here.
I have actual physical issues that can put me 6 feet under and I literally take 7 prescriptions and 6 additional OTC meds and supplements. Some of which have unpleasant side effects. If I don't take them, it puts my life at risk. You have a remedy within arms reach... USE IT!
Sadly, there are some here that are truly beyond help and some so deep in the rabbit hole that they can't see the light of day. I can clearly see how deep in the rabbit hole you are but I can also see a glimmer of rationality that's trying to get out. I'm blunt and to the point because I believe you know better and can do better. I believe you have the inner fortitude to sit down and rationalize away these ridiculous and numerically impossible fears.
Prove me right! Start taking the meds! The hell with your glass of wine in the evenings. You need your life back!
Positive thoughts
it's not just about the wine...
i'm not beyond help, but i'm caught in that loop like Erin said. for sure.
i am trying to squash those new fears that are kinda like gnats, with info(or reassurance as it were :O), so that i can keep them from escalating.
if i didn't have the pond water smell, i think i'd move on from the amoeba pretty quickly. but....anyway.
I view Cofo asking questions about the tops of jars and the colour of meat as education and not reassurance.:winks: I did add that asking once about one issue must be enough, and following that you need to repeat the information to yourself to reassure.
Its all very well us saying that we must 'find self reassurance' 'do self-talk' and the like, but when people don't have any of those skills, don't actually know how to logically work through and rationalise, or feel they have lost the ability to rationalise then showing them how it is done is also valid.Cofo seems very aware of how her questions come across, the first part of her battle is won as she accepts she has some irrational anxiety problems, is seeking therapy and most importantly is keen to proactively work on it and very receptive to all advice given. I get the point Erin is making, at the height of your fears sometimes all logic leaves you, and you are consumed and at a point in your 'illness' where you can't fight your way out just to get by and function. Some 'reassurance' has a place for people who are really low and struggling, the paracetamol to temporarily hit the headache to give you time to take stock and get yourself back in order.
I 100% see where you're coming from, but I don't always completely agree that just blurting out the next worry is all about reassurance. For me, just saying outloud the things I'm worrying about - like "I just got terrified of this thing, that's crazy right??" - is, in and of itself, therapeutic. Cofo and I are anxiety soul sisters. We have so, so much in common, and I know - just like me - she knows what she's asking is ridiculous, so sometimes just asking it helps calm the fears. Anxiety is something that takes many tools and approaches to work through, at least for me, and being able to throw our most ridiculous fear out into the ether is absolutely one of them. Since I know some of the things I end up obsessing about are crazy I'm not comfortable talking about them with most people in my real life. That's why this forum can be so beneficial. Often, all it takes is just saying something to see it for what it is. But, often, we don't have anyone to say these things to.
Yes, reassurance is only a temporary fix. But, sometimes temporary fixes are necessary. I have TMJ that causes migraines sometimes. It took a while to work out what was causing the migraines, so at first the only thing I had was taking pain meds to stop them each time they came on. In the longer term, with the help of both my doctor and dentist, I was able to determine the underlying cause and treat it. Surely, no one would have said to me - the Excedrin you're taking isn't solving the root cause of your migraines, so you should stop taking it and focus on finding and stopping what is giving you the headaches. Just like physical medical problems, sometimes you need to focus on both short and long-term solutions simultaneously in order to survive.
this. i feel like this.
:)
I view Cofo asking questions about the tops of jars and the colour of meat as education and not reassurance.:winks: I did add that asking once about one issue must be enough, and following that you need to repeat the information to yourself to reassure.
Its all very well us saying that we must 'find self reassurance' 'do self-talk' and the like, but when people don't have any of those skills, don't actually know how to logically work through and rationalise, or feel they have lost the ability to rationalise then showing them how it is done is also valid.Cofo seems very aware of how her questions come across, the first part of her battle is won as she accepts she has some irrational anxiety problems, is seeking therapy and most importantly is keen to proactively work on it and very receptive to all advice given. I get the point Erin is making, at the height of your fears sometimes all logic leaves you, and you are consumed and at a point in your 'illness' where you can't fight your way out just to get by and function. Some 'reassurance' has a place for people who are really low and struggling, the paracetamol to temporarily hit the headache to give you time to take stock and get yourself back in order.
wow. i am feeling understood here. thank you.
i know that reassurance is not the answer long term, and it can fuel the fire. i do know this. i really do.
i promise i'm not trying to abuse it. i'm just trying to use it
My observation is that you don’t really seem to even try to work through things on your own, you instantly jump on here for reassurance. I mean, just look at the number of different fears that have been covered in the last few days. I would have a very different perspective of you/your post history if you approached things from an angle of having thought about and tried to challenge your fears...such as the fact that brain eating amoeba is EXTREMELY rare, and even rarer in tap water. But instead your posts have more of a “this thought popped into my head, tell me it can’t happen” vibe.
By anyone caving and just telling you what you want to hear, it’s just reinforcing that behavior which does nothing to quell the real issue.
Its exactly why despite all the reassurance given from Carys and Erin today, predictably (although I hope for your sake not), you will most likely be back with a new fear soon.
i have been jumping on here pretty quickly lately - you are right. in my experience dealing with myself and my anxiety over the years, it does kinda start to spiral, and the fears start adding up. two of the fears that i've come on here about, i actually learned about here, botulism and amoebas. wish i hadn't. my anxiety level is already so high, with the food stuff, and amped even higher because i'm trying to figure out how to start exposing myself to those fears, that anything like that is going to trigger more anxiety. it's like my bucket is already full, and when i get a thought popping in, like the amoeba and my pond water smell, my anxiety is already so high, that yes, i need some logical person to tell me to calm the *#(# down. :) i am just in a bad spot. trying to help myself the best way i know how, trying to listen, take everyone's position into account and get on with things. to me, asking once for some information isn't that bad. asking twice even, probably ok....
and please can i NOT have a new fear tomorrow????! i have plenty. thanks
nomorepanic
12-03-19, 22:33
Why are you not talking to real people in the real world?
Why are you not talking to real people in the real world?
She is - She is seeing a therapist.
When I'm anxious I talk to my husband, my friends, my therapist, and this group. All offer different forms of comfort.
Why are you not talking to real people in the real world?
Are you not real?lol. Why does this board exist?
Support comes in a lot of forms. I don’t know many people with anxiety in real life. It’s helpful to come here and talk with like minded people, like erin, for example. ❤️
Anyway, I have 4 sisters that I talk with, my husband, a couple of close friends and a therapist, like erin said.
nomorepanic
12-03-19, 23:31
We are not real people in the real world though
I would never post my worries on here - I would talk to family
We are not real people in the real world though
I would never post my worries on here - I would talk to family
Wait. What? What's the point of an online forum about anxiety if not to talk about anxiety? I can talk about my anxiety to my husband until I'm blue in the face. But, he doesn't have anxiety so he can never truly understand where I'm coming from or offer the same type of advice or empathy that someone else with anxiety can. Isn't that the point of a forum designed around a specific topic?
I feel like cofo and I have clicked on here and even though I've never met her in person the connection we've made on here is real and meaningful. I'm also in a moms group on facebook. I've never met any of the women in that group, but we've been talking and supporting each other through the challenges and joys of parenting for years and I feel I know them. I get something from those women that I can't get anywhere else.
Anxiety can be a very isolating thing and something that's hard to talk to with people. The great thing about an online forum is that it takes away some of the anxiety associated with opening up and being vulnerable. Admitting what we almost always know are irrational fears can be a really difficult and exposing thing to do. Sometimes a place like this is the only place someone feels comfortable doing so. I think the first reaction should be empathy. And, if someone is bothered by other people's reassurance seeking or repeated posts, then scroll by.
Anxiety can be a very isolating thing and something that's hard to talk to with people. The great thing about an online forum is that it takes away some of the anxiety associated with opening up and being vulnerable. Admitting what we almost always know are irrational fears can be a really difficult and exposing thing to do. Sometimes a place like this is the only place someone feels comfortable doing so. I think the first reaction should be empathy. And, if someone is bothered by other people's reassurance seeking or repeated posts, then scroll by.
The thing with anonymity is that it also allows someone to say or post things that in the real world would never happen. Saving poop, describing self examination too vividly and the list goes on. While it's beneficial knowing your not alone and it can be cathartic typing it out, to do so publicly in such detail is questionable.
The name of of the forum is "No More Panic" not "Feed Your Dragon". Not that there's anything wrong with a bit of empathy but there comes a time when real life action needs to replace virtual tea and sympathy.
Good luck and as always....
Positive thoughts
AMomentofClarity
13-03-19, 00:11
I think the first reaction should be empathy. And, if someone is bothered by other people's reassurance seeking or repeated posts, then scroll by.
Presumably people are posting to a public forum because they’re not happy in their anxious state, no? And they’re trying to be less anxious, no? So I don’t see what’s wrong with providing advice from experience.
if I post on a fishing forum and say “I never catch anything”...presumably I’m looking for some feedback on places to try, lures to use etc.
I can take your above statement and turn it 180 degrees....If you’re bothered by the advice given, don’t post your issues on a public forum.
We are not real people in the real world though
I would never post my worries on here - I would talk to family
Why are you here?
Wait. What? What's the point of an online forum about anxiety if not to talk about anxiety? I can talk about my anxiety to my husband until I'm blue in the face. But, he doesn't have anxiety so he can never truly understand where I'm coming from or offer the same type of advice or empathy that someone else with anxiety can. Isn't that the point of a forum designed around a specific topic?
I feel like cofo and I have clicked on here and even though I've never met her in person the connection we've made on here is real and meaningful. I'm also in a moms group on facebook. I've never met any of the women in that group, but we've been talking and supporting each other through the challenges and joys of parenting for years and I feel I know them. I get something from those women that I can't get anywhere else.
Exactly!! I’m also on a Facebook page for young survivors of breast cancer(diagnosed u see 40). I mostly give out advice based on my past experience, because I’m a 15 year survivor and had an 18 month old when I was diagnosed(stage 2b) originally. I don’t know any of those women but we talk about a lot of things that come up because of breast cancer at a young age. It’s a really close nit group.
I don’t want this thread to go astray. If you feel like helping me, I really appreciate it. I’m going to keep posting here with my trials and hopefully my successes.
Because I believe that even though we might have never met in real life, this is beneficial to me.
venusbluejeans
13-03-19, 01:21
Why are you here?
If Nic/Nomorepanic wasn't here then the forum wouldn't be here..
If Nic/Nomorepanic wasn't here then the forum wouldn't be here..
Her point was - why is she on (or why did she create) a forum about anxiety if she thinks it's ridiculous or counterproductive to come onto the forum and talk about your problems with anxiety?
The thing with anonymity is that it also allows someone to say or post things that in the real world would never happen. Saving poop, describing self examination too vividly and the list goes on. While it's beneficial knowing your not alone and it can be cathartic typing it out, to do so publicly in such detail is questionable.
The name of of the forum is "No More Panic" not "Feed Your Dragon". Not that there's anything wrong with a bit of empathy but there comes a time when real life action needs to replace virtual tea and sympathy.
Good luck and as always....
Positive thoughts
Coming on here and posting about our most private and seemingly ridiculous fears is humiliating. Utterly humiliating. But, in the throws of a severe panic attack there are few places to turn. Yes, there are doctors and therapists and medications. But, in the middle of the night when you're alone in your room, in the middle of the day when a stay at home mom is trying to push through a panic attack while also taking proper care of a child, when you're sitting at your desk at work and the panic starts coming on and you can't just run out the door and into your therapists office, etc, etc, etc... there are really few places someone can turn. Nobody wants to come onto a forum and expose themselves in this way. I know because I've posted questions about some very personal things on here and I absolutely hate every second of it, but talking to someone - anyone - helps me. Hearing someone say, "I understand what you're going through and no, you don't have to worry about that," can break me out of a panic attack when that's all I need at that moment. When I'm ignoring my daughter, crying on my couch with no one to help me. Sometimes someone saying, "no, you don't have to worry about this fear" is a game changer. I see a therapist twice a month and it's a life saver, but it doesn't mean I never fall back into panic any other days of the week.
The other problem with anonymity is that it's easy to shut someone down or mock or tell them all the ways they're treating their anxiety incorrectly. If someone came up to you on the street in the middle of a severe panic attack begging for help and just a little bit of reassurance that they aren't going to drop dead, would you look them in the eye and say, "Well, reassurance isn't really in your best interest. What else are you doing to treat your anxiety?" and walk away? Probably not.
When I'm in the middle of a panic attack and someone on here helps me see that I'm being irrational it stops my panic... which is perfectly in line with a forum called no more panic.
Of course it's also helpful to make constructive suggestions on other ways to help people through their anxiety, and perfectly fair to get frustrated with people who refuse other help. But, cofo has said many times that she's in therapy. I think she's doing her best and just using this forum to get a little bit of support and reassurance in the face of spiraling anxiety, which most people on here should be familiar with.
AMomentofClarity
13-03-19, 01:38
Her point was - why is she on (or why did she create) a forum about anxiety if she thinks it's ridiculous or counterproductive to come onto the forum and talk about your problems with anxiety?
I think you’re completely misunderstanding/misrepresenting what people are saying. Nobody said it’s counterproductive to use this forum to discuss anxiety. Literally, not one person said that.
What has been said is that seeking reassurance, especially in a daily repetitive manner like this OP has is detrimental to overcoming anxiety because it it creates bad habits and only lasts a short time.
Nomorepanic said "I would never post my worries on here - I would talk to family"
The whole point of this forum is to post your worries.
AMomentofClarity
13-03-19, 01:55
Nomorepanic said "I would never post my worries on here - I would talk to family"
The whole point of this forum is to post your worries.
So what, it’s personal preference. Ive never posted a worry on here, but I never said the forum shouldn’t be used. I find that when you get beyond thevfear/reassurance cycle, there’s some very beneficial discussion. Like this one....balancing short term reassurance and long term anxiety treatment. Including experiences from people across a wide spectrum of situations. That’s extremely valuable.
MyNameIsTerry
13-03-19, 04:52
It's too simplistic to argue you shouldn't benefit from anonymity. I suggest you think outside the "HA box" for a minute about the wider themes in anxiety. A good one is always POCD, it's one hell of a gamble to talk to people in real life about thoughts of a sexual nature regarding children and why many sufferers won't even approach a doctor. Post on Facebook with your real name and see what kind of a trolling you get for it.
Post about your HA openly on Facebook and you are going to get abuse, social media is a cesspit.
More openness, more peer support (real life groups are first name only and you discuss your personal problems) and breaking down stigma is the way mental health is going for a reason so I'm a bit surprised by the last couple of pages to be honest. :shrug:
It's too simplistic to argue you shouldn't benefit from anonymity. I suggest you think outside the "HA box" for a minute about the wider themes in anxiety. A good one is always POCD, it's one hell of a gamble to talk to people in real life about thoughts of a sexual nature regarding children and why many sufferers won't even approach a doctor. Post on Facebook with your real name and see what kind of a trolling you get for it.
Post about your HA openly on Facebook and you are going to get abuse, social media is a cesspit.
More openness, more peer support (real life groups are first name only and you discuss your personal problems) and breaking down stigma is the way mental health is going for a reason so I'm a bit surprised by the last couple of pages to be honest. :shrug:
Me too.
I have some very close mum friends that I’ve never met who I talk to daily.
I have some very good work friends who I wouldn’t dream about telling them my anxiety issues.
I don’t often tell my closest family my worries because I don’t want to worry them.
Some very odd points of view on here.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Why are you not talking to real people in the real world?
We are not real people in the real world though
I would never post my worries on here - I would talk to family
I'm struggling with these responses, they make absolutely no sense coming from Admins who created a public forum for people with anxiety to post 'worries on here'.
More openness, more peer support (real life groups are first name only and you discuss your personal problems) and breaking down stigma is the way mental health is going for a reason so I'm a bit surprised by the last couple of pages to be honest. :shrug:
I'm actually beyond a bit surprised, I am quite shocked.
I think, for some reason, everyone is piling in on Cofo and overwhelming her at a time when she is reaching out, very low and feeling so tense and vulnerable. She already understands the long-term, short-term implications of behaviours and anxiety !
I have to admit, I'm a bit baffled by some of the things the admins have said here. I understand completely that reassurance seeking isn't a healthy behaviour on its own, however, if a person's doing everything they can to recover, surely it's not unforgiveable to wobble every once in a while?
i have to admit i was taken aback by the comment that steered the conversation away.... "why are you not talkiing to real people in the real world" by Nicola. First, she assumed I wasn't(I am), and second, I thought y'all were real people :) then for her to say that she would never post her worries on here, was even more confusing. Maybe someone hacked her computer:shrug:
anyway, it sure did spark some interesting comments, and very insightful ones(especially from Erin).
so, the support i receive here far outweighs the negatives, so i want to get this thread back on track, if y'all don't mind.
i need a little push to get started with something today. i am about to start avoiding something that I love to eat, and eat regularly...jarred salsa.
I threw one out the other day because when i opened it, i heard the top pop, but then it made another weird sound, like a click of the glass or something.
i couldn't bring myself to eat it. so, i need to NOT avoid it.
how do i do it? like physically and mentally - how can i force myself to NOT avoid it.
this is a somewhat small step, because i have the safety net of a pop top, and i eat this all the time, but, a giant one if i can keep from avoiding something.
The internet turned 30 years old yesterday. Those of us that have been around longer than that know what it was like before the technological advances of the last 30 years. It's part of our real lives but at the same time it's not. Here, and many other places on the internet, we're just names on a screen. While I see the benefits and points clearly and its helpful, that's fantastic. Carry on. For many, due to circumstances beyond their control, the internet is their only lifeline. The reality is a click of the mouse or a change in your settings can make you or someone else disappear. Click, Swipe left, block and POOF... gone... And people go on with their lives with nary a thought. Anymore, if your internet service goes out, you're dead in the water, people freak out and business comes to a grinding halt! I got sent home early last month because a power outage knocked out the internet and I literally could not do my job as EVERYTHING was on the cloud including phone service.
On the positive side, the information available is unlike anything I've ever seen. "Hey Siri" has become a phrase that's part of our culture and the instant gratification we have available. Having access to such common sense information on food safety makes me question why someone doesn't know why the top pops on jarred/canned foods or the fact that meat, when deprived of oxygen, can turn greyish. A discussion of techniques to overcome fears is positive as long as you take in what's being said and out it into practice. Seeing positive steps forward validates the advice and information. Coming back with a variation on a theme and asking the same questions repeatedly shows the negative side to reassurance and how it affects recovery. The real life aspect in the big picture is the most important part. If you become too dependent on virtual reality, how will you function if that's not available in a time of need?
Positive thoughts
fishman,
the internet has good and bad. yep.
one of the bad for me, is that no matter how hard i try to help myself by googling something, i run across the darndest things. so, for ME, i have learned that googling, doesn't work. it may seem innocent, but even in times when i'm not distressed, it can trigger something. last year, i was really worried about the flu, because social media and regular news media were constantly saying how bad it was. I did use the CDC website to check REAL statistics, but, they list the mortality rates on there too. something i didn't want to think about. so, my mind blew them out of proportion. that's the problem, to YOU, since you don't have anxiety, reading things on a reputable website seems reasonable, because you would read the mortality rate and be able to feel better about it, but not me(or most of us with anxiety). So, for ME, i have to be careful about triggering myself right now.
i need a little push to get started with something today. i am about to start avoiding something that I love to eat, and eat regularly...jarred salsa.
I threw one out the other day because when i opened it, i heard the top pop, but then it made another weird sound, like a click of the glass or something.
i couldn't bring myself to eat it. so, i need to NOT avoid it.
how do i do it? like physically and mentally - how can i force myself to NOT avoid it.
this is a somewhat small step, because i have the safety net of a pop top, and i eat this all the time, but, a giant one if i can keep from avoiding something.
If I find myself about to start avoiding something the best thing for me to do is just eat it as soon as possible. The longer I go without the easier it is to avoid and the more difficult it is to start back up again. I literally take a breath and then just do everything as fast as possible - open the jar, pour in a bowl, dip a chip and eat. It's like ripping a band aid off. Then, before I can worry I've eaten it and I almost instantly relax. With each bite I feel less stressed out about it. It works even better if I'm eating with someone else because then I can even more objectively see that they are just fine after eating it.
If I find myself about to start avoiding something the best thing for me to do is just eat it as soon as possible. The longer I go without the easier it is to avoid and the more difficult it is to start back up again. I literally take a breath and then just do everything as fast as possible - open the jar, pour in a bowl, dip a chip and eat. It's like ripping a band aid off. Then, before I can worry I've eaten it and I almost instantly relax. With each bite I feel less stressed out about it. It works even better if I'm eating with someone else because then I can even more objectively see that they are just fine after eating it.
ok. that's good constructive advice. i'm going to do it tomorrow :)
i did eat some rotisserie chicken last night that i was skeptical about(irrationally)i knew in my heart nothing was wrong with it, but my brain was throwing in some curve balls and some what if's for some reason. i was so anxious i wanted to avoid it, and i didn't. i even let my son eat it.
today, i ate hummus that was not being kept cold. (2 hour rule). and also, tahini was on recall not too long ago, so that crossed my mind. but my friends were all eating it, so i did too.
little victories
nomorepanic
14-03-19, 20:15
I think what I said was not said in the best way I could have done.
I meant if I have worries I would rather talk to my mum or family than post on here as they are real people that know me.
Of course you are all "real" but you don't know me and what I go through so sometimes I think it is better to sit with someone close and actually talk to them rather then post messages on a forum.
That is all!
ok. that's good constructive advice. i'm going to do it tomorrow :)
i did eat some rotisserie chicken last night that i was skeptical about(irrationally)i knew in my heart nothing was wrong with it, but my brain was throwing in some curve balls and some what if's for some reason. i was so anxious i wanted to avoid it, and i didn't. i even let my son eat it.
today, i ate hummus that was not being kept cold. (2 hour rule). and also, tahini was on recall not too long ago, so that crossed my mind. but my friends were all eating it, so i did too.
little victories
Great job!! Those invasive thoughts are so pushy sometimes and I definitely find if I can push them away the first time around they usually won't come back. The more times I let them in the more they set up camp. You know those Mucinex commercials with the gross snot people moving into the sinuses? And then the person takes Mucinex and they get kicked out and can't find their way back? That's how I picture invasive thoughts - trying to move into our brains. And, every time we ignore them they get pushed further away. It almost feels like and out of body experience when I sit there eating something while I can hear the voice in my head telling me not to. Then I finish eating and it's silent.
so, i could not stand the waiting any longer, and even though i'm not eating it right now, i went ahead and opened my new jar of salsa. the safety button was down, and the top popped just fine. I put it in the fridge to eat later. of course, my anxiety is trying to trick me right now. just like an ocd thing of "did i really turn off the stove?", i'm feeling the anxiety and it's trying to make me start questioning it. i know i heard it pop. but yet, i'm not relaxed about it. maybe it's because now i stuck it into the fridge that i never trust. which is actually really cold right now. :)
i'm just writing this out, because i need to work it out. i opened a new jar, the top was sealed, i put it in the fridge. all done correctly. why am i questioning myselft so much with this stuff? i've been eating for 53 years!! :) i'm gonna have it for lunch.
Great job on pushing your boundaries, Cofo. Proud of you.
Well done Cofo, you are really working hard on this.......good work!!!!
Way to go! Enjoy it! As you explained, you know everything is on the up and up and all your doubts are your anxiety trying to latch on to something. You can definitely do it! My parents are coming down to visit this afternoon and we'll go to lunch at California Pizza Kitchen where I plan to have my favorite salad - romaine lettuce and all!
How's it going, cofo? Did you eat the salsa? My parents are in town and we went out to eat last night. I had planned to get my favorite pizza/salad with romaine, which I haven't eaten since the last romaine scare. I'm so proud of myself. We were sitting looking at the menu, and my mom (who I inherited my anxiety from and still struggles with it non-stop), said, "I really want a salad, but I am afraid to eat it. All the lettuce is always contaminated." Instead of letting this bother me and make me question my dinner decision, it made me angry and determined. I was angry that I got my anxiety and all it's specific manifestations from her (even though I know it's not her fault) and determined to not let my anxiety run my life like she has been for decades.
I've only had serious anxiety for 5 years and the majority of that time it's been under control with therapy. My mom has struggled with it since she was in her 20s and she's 66 now. She finally has been seeing a therapist for the last few years, but I really think she needs meds because therapy alone doesn't control it at all for her. This morning when I called to see when they were coming from the hotel she said she'd been up from 3am to 4:30am worried there would be a shooter in the hotel because she heard people talking. Then, she woke up and hadn't taken a shower yet because she forgot her shampoo and was afraid she'd be allergic to the stuff in the hotel. It makes me sad that her anxiety is so debilitating and also empowers me to avoid this situation in myself.
Anyway, I got what I wanted to eat last night and didn't give it a second thought! I hope you were about to enjoy your salsa!
erin - i'm so sad for your mom. she sounds like me! :) and i'm sad for myself. but, i'm happy that you are sharing your story with me, and that your determination is help you to overcome your anxieties. it's motivating for sure. i had a little blip with the salsa....for some reason, my head was trying to convince me not to eat it. i opened it at 1030am, and it was already 1230pm, and had been in the fridge for 2 hours. but it wasn't really cold. it was just cool. so, my head started saying that it had been at room temp for 2 hours, and again i was questioning my fridge. but i reasoned with myself.."my fridge is cold. just like everyone elses. you open something, and put it in the fridge. it can't INSTANTLY get below 40. it takes some time, and that HAS to be ok". and although i didn't believe myself, i made myself eat it anyway. i didn't eat it all, because it was a little anxiety provoking, but i ate half of it.
yesterday we were at a track meet, and someone had picked up sub sandwiches for the team. i had no idea how long they had been sitting there, not in a cooler, but i knew it was probably an hour. maybe 2. but, i let my son eat one. NOW, when it was 6 hours later, and someone said to us "hey, there's a ton of sandwiches left if anyone wants to take them home" i turned to my friend and said - "don't eat those, they've been sitting out for 6 hours" :) she agreed. then proceeded to tell me that her husband got mad at her the other night because her son had left out the meat sauce for spaghetting from the night before, he left it out all night, and her husband said it was ok to eat if you just heat it up. he's a grown man! in his 50's! and he doesn't understand that you have to keep things in the fridge??? this just fuels my fear. especially about eating at other people's houses. LOL
i have been thinking alot about my food fear. i'm trying to change my thinking, but i wanted to write out, just for clarity's sake, how i got hooked on this, and maybe see how i can go back to my old self. my mother always said "when in doubt, throw it out". so i applied that over my years. but, i'm always in doubt now, so that doesn't work anymore.
anyway, this food thing kinda had a seed for my whole life, and somehow it got fertilized. i'm trying to figure out what did it, and i think it's all the food recalls that we have in the US now. people go really sick from the romaine one, and before that, i used to eat at chipotle 2-3 times a week, but then they had a huge scare like 6 year ago, and i haven't eaten there since. seems like a recall every other day. i think this made me start to think about food as being dangerous.
then, my fridge decided to not be able to handle the summer heat. well, it's not really the fridge, it's the house. my house a/c cannot keep up with our late summer temperatures. we try, but it just can't. and right now, i can't do much about it. so, when the fridge isn't cooling down fast enough after being opened, or whatever it does even when it is closed, i just don't trust it. last year, i bought a flank steak and some chicken breasts. i had done a big grocery trip and loaded the groceries into the fridge. then i did a marinade and a rub to the chicken and meat. and added those to the fridge in a tupperware(separately). then we fixed some lunch....so, the fridge was opened and closed alot during that hour. well, i have a thermometer in my fridge and it said like 60. an hour later, it still was like 50, and then an hour later it still wasn't below 40(safe temp). so, i got concerned that maybe it wasn't working right because it just would not cool down. I wasn't worried about the stuff that had already been in the fridge, i was just worried about the new stuff. the new stuff had been at above 40 degrees now for over 2 hours. i decided to check the temp of the meats with a thermometer and they were still above 40(can't remember exactly), but even after 4 hours, they had only gotten to 44. so, i threw them away....then i went into checking the temp of all my foods for about a week to see how long it would take things to get below 40, and stay there. ....and since then,during the hot months, i would only buy meat close to the time of cooking it, and use a cool bag to bring it home. i had my fridge checked twice. i still don't trust it.
so that's one part...it's only lingering now, because it's not hot here...YET. i'm dreading that.
the other part is that chicken smell and beef color that i can't seem to find anyone else that this happens to! i asked some friends the other day where they buy their ground beef(we were talking about what to cook for dinner), and they told me and i ask if it was ever brown in the middle, they all said no. wtf? they even shop where i shop sometimes. and i asked about chicken smelling and they said no. i'm gonna have to go to their houses one time after they shop and find out for myself LOL
i used to cook a lot. on sunday, i used to make a lasagna, put it in the fridge and have it on monday night, when i had tennis night, for them to eat. now, i can't make lasagna at all because of ground beef, and i dont' want to put it in the fridge cause it won't cool down fast enough. i want to get back to this. isn't this what other people do?
anyway, i just wanted to put it out there....how this kinda came about. i am trying to change my way of thinking. i'm trying to tell myself...it's food. you've been cooking and eating for a long time. you know what to do. you are not the guy who thinks you can leave food out all night. you know the right things to do. also, i'm trying to remember that other people eat and cook and do this stuff all the time. and i used to as well. i liked what someone said earlier in this thread about letting life just kind of waft you along.
i have to beat this. or go on meds. and i don't want to go on meds.
not sure yet what my next challenge is. suggestions?
xo
i have been thinking alot about my food fear. i'm trying to change my thinking, but i wanted to write out, just for clarity's sake, how i got hooked on this, and maybe see how i can go back to my old self. my mother always said "when in doubt, throw it out". so i applied that over my years. but, i'm always in doubt now, so that doesn't work anymore.
anyway, this food thing kinda had a seed for my whole life, and somehow it got fertilized. i'm trying to figure out what did it, and i think it's all the food recalls that we have in the US now. people go really sick from the romaine one, and before that, i used to eat at chipotle 2-3 times a week, but then they had a huge scare like 6 year ago, and i haven't eaten there since. seems like a recall every other day. i think this made me start to think about food as being dangerous.
then, my fridge decided to not be able to handle the summer heat. well, it's not really the fridge, it's the house. my house a/c cannot keep up with our late summer temperatures. we try, but it just can't. and right now, i can't do much about it. so, when the fridge isn't cooling down fast enough after being opened, or whatever it does even when it is closed, i just don't trust it. last year, i bought a flank steak and some chicken breasts. i had done a big grocery trip and loaded the groceries into the fridge. then i did a marinade and a rub to the chicken and meat. and added those to the fridge in a tupperware(separately). then we fixed some lunch....so, the fridge was opened and closed alot during that hour. well, i have a thermometer in my fridge and it said like 60. an hour later, it still was like 50, and then an hour later it still wasn't below 40(safe temp). so, i got concerned that maybe it wasn't working right because it just would not cool down. I wasn't worried about the stuff that had already been in the fridge, i was just worried about the new stuff. the new stuff had been at above 40 degrees now for over 2 hours. i decided to check the temp of the meats with a thermometer and they were still above 40(can't remember exactly), but even after 4 hours, they had only gotten to 44. so, i threw them away....then i went into checking the temp of all my foods for about a week to see how long it would take things to get below 40, and stay there. ....and since then,during the hot months, i would only buy meat close to the time of cooking it, and use a cool bag to bring it home. i had my fridge checked twice. i still don't trust it.
so that's one part...it's only lingering now, because it's not hot here...YET. i'm dreading that.
the other part is that chicken smell and beef color that i can't seem to find anyone else that this happens to! i asked some friends the other day where they buy their ground beef(we were talking about what to cook for dinner), and they told me and i ask if it was ever brown in the middle, they all said no. wtf? they even shop where i shop sometimes. and i asked about chicken smelling and they said no. i'm gonna have to go to their houses one time after they shop and find out for myself LOL
i used to cook a lot. on sunday, i used to make a lasagna, put it in the fridge and have it on monday night, when i had tennis night, for them to eat. now, i can't make lasagna at all because of ground beef, and i dont' want to put it in the fridge cause it won't cool down fast enough. i want to get back to this. isn't this what other people do?
anyway, i just wanted to put it out there....how this kinda came about. i am trying to change my way of thinking. i'm trying to tell myself...it's food. you've been cooking and eating for a long time. you know what to do. you are not the guy who thinks you can leave food out all night. you know the right things to do. also, i'm trying to remember that other people eat and cook and do this stuff all the time. and i used to as well. i liked what someone said earlier in this thread about letting life just kind of waft you along.
i have to beat this. or go on meds. and i don't want to go on meds.
not sure yet what my next challenge is. suggestions?
xo
Oooh Chipotle. I still mourn the loss of Chipotle since (because we're like the same person) I used to eat it several times a week and then stopped after the big e coli scare. My husband still eats it and I get so tempted by the smell, but still haven't done it. I sometimes think of that as the last thing I'll finally eat when I make it through all my food fears.
Our food story is very similar in that mine slowly build up over time as well. My fridge is also somewhat unreliable. We've had to have it fixed twice because it will stop cooling randomly. So, now I have a thermometer in there so I can be sure. It also doesn't always close all the way, so just this week I had to throw away a ton of stuff I'd just bought because someone left it half open and it was 60 degrees in there when I finally realized.
I also encounter people who no sense of food safety! Someone posted in my FB mom group recently asking if it was ok to still eat meat she'd put in the crock pot in the morning and forgot to turn on (so it had been sitting in there all day) and some people said it was fine! But, instead of making me more worried, these stories always make me feel a bit better. There are so many people who are clueless and even they don't get sick! So, people like us who are careful are in a great position.
My food safety concerns were also like a seed that was just sitting there waiting to blossom. Even before my bad anxiety I was a little weird about food since I grew up with my mom who was always afraid of food. she planted the seed. She never thought anything was cooked enough and would throw stuff out all the time if it looked weird. So, I have a very hard time cooking raw meat.
I will say - I absolutely have seen ground beef that's brown inside! Your friend are crazy if they say they've never seen that. I read that it's because it's not exposed to the air - so the outside is pink and the inside layer is brown. I've always cooked and eaten this without any issues.
As far as smelly chicken is concerned, that may be your hypervigilence. I always smell meet before cooking it and always think it smells weird, but my husband always says its fine. I think I just think raw meat smells gross. There was only one time that he agreed on a piece of meet smelling bad and it was very obviously off. Also, most meet will smell weird right when I open it and then after a minute smell fine. I think it's just the concentrated meat smell inside the packaging.
I get so jealous of all the moms in my mom group who talk about meal prepping and having all this stuff ready for the week ahead, because I just can't make myself make food ahead of time and leave in the fridge or freezer. And, for some reason I stopped trusting my crockpot last year! For no reason! I really need to get over that because I start school in 5 months and I'll have to have a better plan for dinners since I'll be going to class right as my husband gets home around 5:30, so I want to try and have a dinner ready so I can eat something before leaving and my husband and daughter have something to eat.
I'd definitely recommend a fridge thermometer if you don't have one yet, and trying to trust that without testing the temp of the food. For me, as long as the fridge is cold when I put something in and cold when I take something out I assume it's fine.
Oh, and I had another good victory on Friday. I was the volunteer at my daughter's pre-school. It was PJ day and they were making a special snack of pancakes and strawberries. The teacher handed me a tub of strawberries and asked me to cut some up. They were not a tub of strawberries I would have ever eaten or kept in my house because so many were bumped or slightly bruised and one on the very bottom was all shriveled up. It's even possible one had a tiny bit of mold. I 100% would have thrown the whole thing out if it was at my house. But, the teacher had clearly brought them in and looked right at them when handing them to me and thought they were fine. So, I pulled out all the ones that looked best, washed them well, and chopped them! It was a really big struggle for me, but I got through it and as I was chopping them I realized most of the ones I was cutting were totally fine.
Oooh Chipotle. I still mourn the loss of Chipotle since (because we're like the same person) I used to eat it several times a week and then stopped after the big e coli scare. My husband still eats it and I get so tempted by the smell, but still haven't done it. I sometimes think of that as the last thing I'll finally eat when I make it through all my food fears.
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THIS !!! LOL hahaha
Our food story is very similar in that mine slowly build up over time as well. My fridge is also somewhat unreliable. We've had to have it fixed twice because it will stop cooling randomly. So, now I have a thermometer in there so I can be sure. It also doesn't always close all the way, so just this week I had to throw away a ton of stuff I'd just bought because someone left it half open and it was 60 degrees in there when I finally realized.
--------i
do have a thermometer....and i would have thrown things out too. my husband wouldn't have though. i did learn that the air temp goes up quickly if left open, but that is not the same as the food temp. it takes longer for the food to get warm....but new stuff...nope. would've tossed it. and had a bog fight about it with my husband. :(
I also encounter people who no sense of food safety! Someone posted in my FB mom group recently asking if it was ok to still eat meat she'd put in the crock pot in the morning and forgot to turn on (so it had been sitting in there all day) and some people said it was fine! But, instead of making me more worried, these stories always make me feel a bit better. There are so many people who are clueless and even they don't get sick! So, people like us who are careful are in a great position.
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hmm . that's an interesting way to look at it. i wonder if that will reinforce my thinking that my diligence is working though? something to think about. i'm definitely not going to eat something that is sitting out all day. but, if i use my reason, and my knowledge - in a normal way, this is good.
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As far as smelly chicken is concerned, that may be your hypervigilence. I always smell meet before cooking it and always think it smells weird, but my husband always says its fine. I think I just think raw meat smells gross. There was only one time that he agreed on a piece of meet smelling bad and it was very obviously off. Also, most meet will smell weird right when I open it and then after a minute smell fine. I think it's just the concentrated meat smell inside the packaging.
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yes, earlier in this thread there was talk about the chicken and leaving it open for a few minutes before smelling it...i'm gonna try that when i get the courage to buy chicken next :)
I get so jealous of all the moms in my mom group who talk about meal prepping and having all this stuff ready for the week ahead, because I just can't make myself make food ahead of time and leave in the fridge or freezer. And, for some reason I stopped trusting my crockpot last year! For no reason! I really need to get over that because I start school in 5 months and I'll have to have a better plan for dinners since I'll be going to class right as my husband gets home around 5:30, so I want to try and have a dinner ready so I can eat something before leaving and my husband and daughter have something to eat.
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seriously? it's like a parallel universe. i too stopped using my crockpot last year. i decided there is no way it could get a huge chunk of meat out of the danger zone (to 140 degrees)within 2 hours. yet. i had used and eaten crock pot meat ALL MY FREAKING LIFE!!! - i want to get back to it too. i think i'm gonna buy a new one and try it sometime soon. I did eat a pot roast that my sister cooked in her crockpot when i was visiting her last month. why do i trust her and not myself? Hmmm...
I'd definitely recommend a fridge thermometer if you don't have one yet, and trying to trust that without testing the temp of the food. For me, as long as the fridge is cold when I put something in and cold when I take something out I assume it's fine.
right. this is normal. that's what everyone else is doing. i'm trying to tell myself that too. i drove myself crazy testing the temp of the food last year, and finally had to just stop.
Oh, and I had another good victory on Friday. I was the volunteer at my daughter's pre-school. It was PJ day and they were making a special snack of pancakes and strawberries. The teacher handed me a tub of strawberries and asked me to cut some up. They were not a tub of strawberries I would have ever eaten or kept in my house because so many were bumped or slightly bruised and one on the very bottom was all shriveled up. It's even possible one had a tiny bit of mold. I 100% would have thrown the whole thing out if it was at my house. But, the teacher had clearly brought them in and looked right at them when handing them to me and thought they were fine. So, I pulled out all the ones that looked best, washed them well, and chopped them! It was a really big struggle for me, but I got through it and as I was chopping them I realized most of the ones I was cutting were totally fine.
and congrats to you!!! the little victories add up. and way to kick the romaine's ass!! i have yet to buy romaine by itself, but i have been using mixed lettuces which contain romaine. and i've yet to have a cesear salad from my favorite restaurant.. in due time i guess. right before i go to chipotle!
:)
Oh - and that was a success with the salsa! A minor blip in your thought process, but the important part is that you still pushed through and ate it!
Too bad we don't live closer. We could have a cesaer salad and Chipotle challenge!
I'm going to try to plan a crockpot meal for this week. I was all ready to make one two weeks ago. I'd chopped up potatoes and everything and then realized I didn't have celery and used it as an excuse not to make it. This recipe is just a potato corn soup, so no meat. That should be a good place to start.
And my husband wants tacos with ground beef this week. I haven't bought ground beef in a while. So I'm going to try to do those two things this week!
and some people said it was fine! But, instead of making me more worried, these stories always make me feel a bit better.
I think that is a very important point to take from everything actually......how other people live...and still don't get ill. The media and the food agencies bombard us with fear stories, and yet some people eat any old rubbish, cooked any old way without a clue of even basic food handling standards and don't get sick. I think its really not that easy to make yourself ill, not as easy as we are led to believe. Of course, anywhere preparing food to sell needs thoroughly checking and regulating, but at home following some simple good practice rules like hand washing and keeping things cold etc will do the job. What about years ago when people had pantries and understood the rules then of how to store without making people sick ? As for meat......cook it right through and anything is DEAD...its those shocking chicken bbqs where meat is still bloody in the middle that are risky. I've never worried about my fridge actually, as long as the eggs feels cold that'll do me. lol
isn't this what other people do?
Yes, it is what other people do! I can't really comment on the meat thing, as I personally have only eated fish for 20 years (but not for reasons about being concerned about meat!) However, when there are only two of us at home I will make something and fridge it and have it the next evening.
i am having the monday blues today. i'm feeling bogged down by all of this anxiety stuff. i keep telling myself that this food anxiety is just not worth getting depressed over, but honestly, today, i feel depressed.
i just feel kinda blah. a little bit of dread. and i'm a little worried about becoming depressed.
i just keep telling myself that it's the usual monday boredom. work. laundry. cooking( ugh).
i played some tennis this morning, and that helped. but i'm back at home, trying to figure out what to cook for dinner, and trying to get a leg up on my work stuff and my housework stuff.
no wonder i'm depressed. LOL
Can you plan yourself a treat for the weekend, maybe?
That just seems so far away, the weekend! I am feeling pretty weak about my struggle today I don’t want to cook at all I even thought I would just make a simple pasta dish that feels safe, but I’m having anxiety about the chicken broth already. The brand I buy is Swanson and they have it in a carton and the foil seal inside breaks when you twist the cap. Well you can’t see it until you take off the cap. So I am thinking it could’ve been broken before I even opened it. Ugh. Just a crappy day
That just seems so far away, the weekend! I am feeling pretty weak about my struggle today I don’t want to cook at all I even thought I would just make a simple pasta dish that feels safe, but I’m having anxiety about the chicken broth already. The brand I buy is Swanson and they have it in a carton and the foil seal inside breaks when you twist the cap. Well you can’t see it until you take off the cap. So I am thinking it could’ve been broken before I even opened it. Ugh. Just a crappy day
If we were the same age I would be certain we were twins separated at birth. I loaaaathe those chicken broth containers for that exact reason. But, I realize there are very small little bits of plastic that connect the top when it's sealed that snap when you open it, so you can look and see that those are still intact before opening.
And, "trying to figure out what to cook for dinner, and trying to get a leg up on my work stuff and my housework stuff.
no wonder i'm depressed. LOL". <--- this is my exact mood right now. I had a meltdown this morning because I'm so sick of feeling like I'm always behind on everything. I wish I could just not care about the house being messy, but because I have anxiety I hate being in a messy space all day. I do freelance work from home and I have SUCH a hard time managing my time since I'm my own boss, so I always end up feeling like I'm behind or feeling like no matter what I'm doing there's something more I should be getting done. It's exhausting!
If we were the same age I would be certain we were twins separated at birth. I loaaaathe those chicken broth containers for that exact reason. But, I realize there are very small little bits of plastic that connect the top when it's sealed that snap when you open it, so you can look and see that those are still intact before opening.
And, "trying to figure out what to cook for dinner, and trying to get a leg up on my work stuff and my housework stuff.
no wonder i'm depressed. LOL". <--- this is my exact mood right now. I had a meltdown this morning because I'm so sick of feeling like I'm always behind on everything. I wish I could just not care about the house being messy, but because I have anxiety I hate being in a messy space all day. I do freelance work from home and I have SUCH a hard time managing my time since I'm my own boss, so I always end up feeling like I'm behind or feeling like no matter what I'm doing there's something more I should be getting done. It's exhausting!
get out of town!!! now you're just making up stuff to make me feel not so alone!!! LOL - are you serious? i am dying laughing at the fact that i never thought anyone would have any feelings whatsoever about the swanson chicken broth, yet you do. that is hilarious.
those little tabs are hard to tell if they are sealed or not though... :P - edited to add....i watched when i opened it, and the ring drops to the bottom after the tabs are broken. if feel better about it now. :)
i am going to have to cook and deal with it.
tomorrow is another day. afterall.
and i just convinced my husband to eat out tomorrow night...so i have tennis in the morning and that at night. already feel better. :)
get out of town!!! now you're just making up stuff to make me feel not so alone!!! LOL - are you serious? i am dying laughing at the fact that i never thought anyone would have any feelings whatsoever about the swanson chicken broth, yet you do. that is hilarious.
No joke! And it's not just Swanson, I feel like every brand has converted to that type of lid! It's so hard to find any that aren't like that. I miss the old ones where you flip open the lid and pull the little foil tab. I literally questions myself every single time I use them. But now I check the ring, like you said, and make sure it's first attached before I open.
I'm pretty sure I started worrying about these a few years ago when my daughter was smaller. I caught her once with the pantry drawer pulled out just opening all the broth tops! Then I was like - wait - which ones were open and which were closed? And I realized it's almost impossible to tell!
I'm pretty sure I started worrying about these a few years ago when my daughter was smaller. I caught her once with the pantry drawer pulled out just opening all the broth tops!
that's hilarious!! so funny. i bet she was having fun :)
i miss those days of having a little one.
i actually think that the root of my anxiety/depression right now is that my son will be going off to college soon, no more little one. :)
i have not really been that concerned about it, he's only going to be 1.5 hours away, and he will be running cross country and track, in a large Division 1 program, so he will be surrounded by adults, like coaches, trainers, their own doctor, etc. He will be living in a dorm with other teammates, so it's actually a really good transitional thing for me. It will still be hard, but at least he has that.
but now, i'm starting to think that my dread feeling is actually the idea of him leaving. all the things i fear, i fear for him...food safety, flu, bedbugs, etc....and now i will have no control at all. i think the feelings i'm having now are anticipatory anxiety manifesting itself in this way.
i really want to try lexapro. but i'm terrified. my ocd thoughts about "what if i hurt someone or myself" cannot be convinced. i read that side effect ONE TIME, many many years ago, and now, i feel doomed. I've always been a little fiesty - my mama said i had a "temper" - very southern. but i hate violence. i can't watch those kind of movies, can't stomach any of that stuff. I think guns are terrifying. and i'm a huge chicken...scared to stay alone, etc. I'm a 53 year old petite woman, with anxiety and a short fuse.
I was on paxil when i was in my 30's and it worked great. however, i remember not being sensitive to things. i felt a little bit like it was hard to cry. a little flat. i don't want that feeling. the short fuse and lack of feeling ideas make me think, what if it's just sitting there waiting to be triggered. and although i know that these types of thoughts are really common ocd themes, i can't seem to find anyone with this "fear" of medication. so, that reinforces it even more.
however, I don't want depression. -
that's hilarious!! so funny. i bet she was having fun :)
i miss those days of having a little one.
i actually think that the root of my anxiety/depression right now is that my son will be going off to college soon, no more little one. :)
i have not really been that concerned about it, he's only going to be 1.5 hours away, and he will be running cross country and track, in a large Division 1 program, so he will be surrounded by adults, like coaches, trainers, their own doctor, etc. He will be living in a dorm with other teammates, so it's actually a really good transitional thing for me. It will still be hard, but at least he has that.
but now, i'm starting to think that my dread feeling is actually the idea of him leaving. all the things i fear, i fear for him...food safety, flu, bedbugs, etc....and now i will have no control at all. i think the feelings i'm having now are anticipatory anxiety manifesting itself in this way.
i really want to try lexapro. but i'm terrified. my ocd thoughts about "what if i hurt someone or myself" cannot be convinced. i read that side effect ONE TIME, many many years ago, and now, i feel doomed. I've always been a little fiesty - my mama said i had a "temper" - very southern. but i hate violence. i can't watch those kind of movies, can't stomach any of that stuff. I think guns are terrifying. and i'm a huge chicken...scared to stay alone, etc. I'm a 53 year old petite woman, with anxiety and a short fuse.
I was on paxil when i was in my 30's and it worked great. however, i remember not being sensitive to things. i felt a little bit like it was hard to cry. a little flat. i don't want that feeling. the short fuse and lack of feeling ideas make me think, what if it's just sitting there waiting to be triggered. and although i know that these types of thoughts are really common ocd themes, i can't seem to find anyone with this "fear" of medication. so, that reinforces it even more.
however, I don't want depression. -
I think it makes total sense that the huge impending change of your son going to college is triggering your anxiety. Before I had chronic anxiety I had a few blips through my life and they were always associated with big changes. The first was the summer between graduating high school and going to college and the second was right after my boyfriend (now husband) and I first moved in together. Then, the big one was after becoming a mother. Change is a huge anxiety trigger because it throws us off kilter!
I'm afraid of meds, too. Not for the same reason or really any specific reason, I guess. Just the fact that new medication always makes me anxious and I guess I fear them not working and throwing me more off balance and then how long I'd have to be on and if it would be hard to get off them, etc... So I get you! I'd definitely talk to your doctor about your worries. I feel like most of those scary side effects have been associated with younger men specifically, but I could be wrong!
I'm terrified of medication also - have been my whole life. I think there is some link to the contamination/poisoning fears that also manifest with food. I worry about side-effects, anaphylaxis, changes to my well-being/mental state, everything that I could fear about them I fear lol
I'm terrified of medication also - have been my whole life. I think there is some link to the contamination/poisoning fears that also manifest with food. I worry about side-effects, anaphylaxis, changes to my well-being/mental state, everything that I could fear about them I fear lol
i think i could get passed all the "normal" fears about medication that i have and take lexapro if i could just shake this one. I have talked to my therapist about it and she said she didn't think it would be any problem, and she knows me pretty well. but i can't help but think, what if it just causes some weird brain trigger and i become a different person. some inner demon thing or something. i'm actually a pretty nice person normally :) LOL
today is going a little better than yesterday. i think it's because i don't have to cook tonight :)
i did get some dishwasher water in my nose when i was putting clean dishes away today, so that is giving me some stupid anxiety.
and get this....i accidentally drank from an old lime lacroix(in a can), that had been sitting out for over 24 hours. didn't realize it was one i had left on the counter from yesterday, until i took a big swig. if it was in a plastic bottle, or if it had been refrigerated, i probably wouldn't care, but something about it sitting there room temp in a can.......:scared15:
lastly, i'm trying to cut back on my wine consumption. I have 2 or 2.5 glasses(5 ounce glasses, i measure)of red wine every night. i have been doing this for years. it's not progressing, but i know that i should give my liver a break several nights a week. i just really like it. :) And, trying to cut back is not easy. i do use it for anxiety relief, and that's probably exacerbating the problem. but, i know it's a depressant, so since i'm feeling kinda low, i know i should cut it back.
the problem is, i have been doing it for so long, that i'm now scared i'll get withdrawals if i stop cold turkey. i don't weigh very much, and i have been doing it for years, so even though it's not an all day drinking hard liquor thing, my brain is fixated on alcohol withdrawal. i've skipped nights here and there over the years, and nothing has happened, but now that's it's been longer, i feel like my fear is justified.
anyway, i'm cutting back. trying to aim for 1.5 glasses during the week, at least. for now. did it last night. but, i'm kinda bummed about it for tonight.
it'll be fine. i really think it is increasing my daytime anxiety/depression and while it's nice to have the relief at night, it would be best not to have the anxiety during the day.
anyway. geez. i hope i don't scare y'all off. i sound like a mess when i write that out. it's all just little stuff, adding up in a big way.
Lastly, i'm trying to cut back on my wine consumption. I have 2 or 2.5 glasses(5 ounce glasses, i measure)of red wine every night. i have been doing this for years. it's not progressing, but i know that i should give my liver a break several nights a week. i just really like it. :) And, trying to cut back is not easy. i do use it for anxiety relief, and that's probably exacerbating the problem. but, i know it's a depressant, so since i'm feeling kinda low, i know i should cut it back.
the problem is, i have been doing it for so long, that i'm now scared i'll get withdrawals if i stop cold turkey. i don't weigh very much, and i have been doing it for years, so even though it's not an all day drinking hard liquor thing, my brain is fixated on alcohol withdrawal. i've skipped nights here and there over the years, and nothing has happened, but now that's it's been longer, i feel like my fear is justified.
anyway, i'm cutting back. trying to aim for 1.5 glasses during the week, at least. for now. did it last night. but, i'm kinda bummed about it for tonight.
it'll be fine. i really think it is increasing my daytime anxiety/depression and while it's nice to have the relief at night, it would be best not to have the anxiety during the day.
anyway. geez. i hope i don't scare y'all off. i sound like a mess when i write that out. it's all just little stuff, adding up in a big way.
I definitely think my anxiety is higher the day after I drink. Wine gives me heartburn so I don't drink it often, but I used to have a beer sometimes in the evening. I think it's reasonable to ween yourself down slowly. Maybe replace it with tea eventually? I love having a cup of tea at the end of the night. It's relaxing and it also helps keep me from snacking after I put my daughter in bed!
I so feel you on drinking old drinks. Between my husband and my daughter there are always like 5 different cans laying around the house - store brand seltzer because we're cheap :roflmao:. I've totally drank from an old one and been grossed out. Meanwhile my husband will drink days old water without a second thought! And don't get me started on his gym water bottle that sits half full and closed up all day and then he just dumps the old water out and refills it without washing! :scared15:
Meanwhile my husband will drink days old water without a second thought! And don't get me started on his gym water bottle that sits half full and closed up all day and then he just dumps the old water out and refills it without washing! :scared15:
Well, this made me laugh, because I do this too. I have a water bottle (tap) by the bed and once it runs out, which can be a few days , I refill it. I wash the bottle once every few weeks if and when I remember LOL What your husband is doing is ok. There are quite a few articles doing the rounds right now, and have been for a few years, that the damage we actually do ourselves, with regard to germs, is to NOT expose ourselves. Some people have weak immune systems and all sort of problems from a lack of 'interaction' with germs.
Yep, I drink days-old water, too, and I mostly only rinse the bottle. I'll occasionally do this with cups of (black, unsugared) tea or coffee, too.
well, i'm mostly rambling on here now.....but it's been cathartic.
i got a little reassurance about the lacroix and managed to not think about it again until i came on here this morning :) gym water bottles gross me out. my son runs cross country/track and at their team camp he takes a water bottle and uses it the whole week without washing it!! i did not know this until this past year(his final year :) yuck. blue, i can't believe you drink old coffee. lol - not because of germs, but because fresh coffee is the only way to go! ;)
mornings are a little rough for me lately. i wake up with a sense of dread. but i am trying to change my morning thoughts. think about what i have to be grateful for, and try to think of something to look forward to. I'm feeling ok today.
i have a therapy appt today. so that'll be good.
i also have team tennis practice tonight.
i think i'm going to try to make some chicken enchiladas ahead of time today, and put them in the fridge for my husband to cook when he gets home since i'll be at practice. this is a little step, as i haven't been making things ahead of time lately, because of trust issues with my fridge. but i think i'm going to try it today.
as far as the wine goes, Erin, do you think i NEED to wean down because of withdrawals or just because of my anxiety relief?
I'm going to try for less wine again tonight. stopped at 1.5 monday night, 2 last night. gonna shoot for 1.5 again tonight. my plan is to have tennis practice, come home at 8 and eat dinner with a glass of wine, then take a hot bath and go to bed early and read my book club book that i'm so behind on.
i am not a huge hot tea fan. it tastes like hot water to me :0 i wish i liked it. my husband drinks it often.
thanks for sticking with me -
I suggested weaning just for your own anxiety concerns. I drink coffee every day and get a headache by midday if I haven't had any! Anything habitual can give you a bit of a withdrawal, so since you're already anxious it would make sense to ease out of it if that's what you want.
The mornings are always so hard for me when my anxiety is high. I've read about it, and it's common because cortisol levels rise to wake us up, but that can also cause anxiety in some people. The best thing to do is get right out of bed (easier said than done!)
What book are you reading? I'm always looking for something but so bad at choosing!
Cofo, once you're stuck on de-caf it doesn't really matter what temperature it is, it's all so much glitter on a turd ;)
just updating to let y'all know i haven't fallen off the face of the earth. :)
had a few good days. had some stresses though....my son got windburn last weekend on his nose/cheeks from being at a track meet all day. it was really red. i didn't think much about it, but on wednesday evening i noticed his nose was swollen, lumpy and had tiny oozing blisters on it. did some neosporin, and watched it the next day.but by friday morning it was a little worse, so i took him to the dr. he has impetigo: basically a staph infection. i'm proud of myself that we didn't run to the dr on thursday, but i wish i had. not because of danger, but because it would've been a day sooner for the prescription antibiotic ointment. he's had this a few times throughout his life. it really sux because it's on his handsome face, and it will be a gross scab before it's all over. :/
haven't pushed myself too much on the food thing. i am just too scared. i did eat something at tennis, which i usually never do, even though it was sitting out. it was still cold, but normally i would just not eat the food at all. small victory. this week is a really busy week, i have something every night, so i likely will not be testing myself this week.
but, we leave for the beach for spring break on saturday. i have been dreading this since we booked it. we are going with 7 families and their teen boys. 5 of the couples and all of the boys are staying in a really big penthouse condo, and 2 couples (us and another family) are staying in a separate unit, same building.
my son will be in the big condo without me. and i keep thinking how the fridge in that condo cannot possibly hold food for that many people and keep it all cold. and so many people opening and closing it, there is no way it will work right. that's one concern. #2, is that several of the moms are going to make lasagna and freeze it and bring it down to eat the first night. well, it's like a 7 hour drive, and i am trying not to call all of them and make sure they know that the lasgnas have to be kept cold the whole time. what if they think they can just stick a frozen lasagna in their car and drive 7 hours with it?
#3 the bed bug fear is alive and well. i always check our hotel/condos for bedbugs before we settle in. i'm not sure that i'll be able to do that for the room that my son will be in.
#4 - lastly, and this is really a circumstantial fear, not an ocd thing. the police on the beaches(panhandle florida)have decided that spring breakers have gotten out of hand the past few years. so, instead of just giving tickets for underage drinking, they are actually arresting them and they are having to spend the night in jail, go to court, mugshot, etc. while i don't condone underage drinking, i think that arresting them is extreme. that aside, my son doesn't drink, and i know he won't. he has no interest. he is a track/cross country athlete, and has a spot on a D1 college team starting in the fall. it's a BIG DEAL. it's his dream. he's a really responsible kid. anyway, i heard from many parents that kids were getting arrested and it was so crazy down there blah blah blah. i have always told him that he could request a breathalyzer if he wasn't drinking, to prove it. but, i read that you can actually get arrested for just being around alcohol if you are underage. one girl that got arrested said she was not drinking but her friend was and she got arrested because the cooler had alcohol in it. it's called constructive possession of alcohol. what the f? so, if you are at a party and the cops show up, they basically just arrest everyone. they don't sift through and determine who was drinking and who wasn't. they don't have to.
so, now, my son and i both are dreading the whole situation. if he gets arrested he'd lose his spot on the college team. we have to go. so, i'm just picturing this whole beach thing to be 40 million kids drinking and them all getting arrested. anyway... that's where i'm at.
i've got a good busy week of track meets and tennis and my sister coming in town to go to a concert with me on my birthday thursday night. so, i'm looking forward to it.
good distractions leading up to the trip - we leave saturday.
thanks for listening...as always, i welcome your support, thoughts and advice on how to manage all of this.
xo
AMomentofClarity
24-03-19, 15:06
Have you ever discussed control issues with your therapist? Obviously control plays a big role in any OCD/anxiety type behaviors, but you seem especially affected.
Specifically the part about lasagna....I’m assuming your friends are in their 40s/50s who have successfully raised children of their own. Do you really think that they don’t know you can’t keep lasagna unchilled in a hot car for 7 hours????
Have you ever discussed control issues with your therapist? Obviously control plays a big role in any OCD/anxiety type behaviors, but you seem especially affected.
Specifically the part about lasagna....I’m assuming your friends are in their 40s/50s who have successfully raised children of their own. Do you really think that they don’t know you can’t keep lasagna unchilled in a hot car for 7 hours????
I sort of agree with this, because yes look at that last sentence, it makes perfect sense. I also understand your fear. But maybe drop it, it’s one less thing to worry about. Let your son eat the lovely homemade lasagne worry free.
The fridge will be fine, they are built to withstand being opened and shut a fair few times.
I think you need to work on your joint worry about the arrest though. It’s not fair to share this with your son. You are going on what sounds like a fantastic holiday, it’ll be what you make it.
I share so many of your worries, I really understand your thought process. But dig deep here, find ways to relax & keep yourself calm.
Well done for trying the food at tennis. Enjoy your birthday.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I sort of agree with this, because yes look at that last sentence, it makes perfect sense. I also understand your fear. But maybe drop it, it’s one less thing to worry about. Let your son eat the lovely homemade lasagne worry free.
The fridge will be fine, they are built to withstand being opened and shut a fair few times.
I think you need to work on your joint worry about the arrest though. It’s not fair to share this with your son. You are going on what sounds like a fantastic holiday, it’ll be what you make it.
I share so many of your worries, I really understand your thought process. But dig deep here, find ways to relax & keep yourself calm.
Well done for trying the food at tennis. Enjoy your birthday.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
i am surprised at how many people don't know much about food safety :) one mom was telling me that her son had left their meat tomato sauce(spaghetti sauce)out all night, and the next day when she was throwing it in the garbage, her husband told her that was silly that it would be fine to eat because they would heat it up. :O no. just no. :)
anyway, yes, control is a huge issue, and i've realized it much more lately. oddly, the reason that i realized it, was because when i DON'T have control, i actually have less anxiety. For example, if i go to a restaurant, i don't worry much about it....that's why i'll eat quacomole there :) so, i'm just forced to let go, and it kinda feels good. so, i will have to do the same thing for the lasagnas.
something to ponder....
as far as the arrest goes, i'm not pushing that anxiety on to my son. he doesn't have anxiety about it. he knows it's actually somewhat of a reality. he's heard the same stories. i've talked to him about it, and he knows that he's responsible, and that he may have to choose to forgo a house party, even if his friends are going, because his spot on the team means more to him then the party. it's up to him to make the right choices. i just hope he isn't in the wrong place at the wrong time.
my therapist is out of town for a month. ugh.
Hi
This is just a courtesy reply to let you know that your thread was merged with another of your threads.
Please when posting on similar topics add it onto your previous post rather than starting a new one.
It is nothing personal it is just to make it easier for people to follow your story and to give you advice as a whole.
Elen
Hi
This is just a courtesy reply to let you know that your thread was merged with another of your threads.
Please when posting on similar topics add it onto your previous post rather than starting a new one.
It is nothing personal it is just to make it easier for people to follow your story and to give you advice as a whole.
Elen
nevermind. this sux. i am not going to have just one freaking thread. that's ridiculous.
nomorepanic
26-03-19, 15:08
It is the best way for people to get a whole picture of your concerns.
nevermind. this sux. i am not going to have just one freaking thread. that's ridiculous.
You actually have 32 threads!
3-12-2019 - Have you started the meds?
Two weeks have passed. So?.....
Positive thoughts
You actually have 32 threads!
yes. but all my latests posts are all combined to one thread now, no matter what. so. we should just all have one thread? like per member? i'm no longer allowed to ask any questions about health stuff on here. EVERY OTHER person on this forum can do that but not me. i don't get it.
i read a ton of posts about everyone else's concerns, but i don't get the same treatment
you have 41 posts KK. why don't you just have one too?
and fishmanpa - i am in therapy. you don't get this shit over with overnight. i usually take your advice, because you are a normal intelligent man, who usually offers some words of wisdom, but lately it's just been like this. and maybe you're tired of it.
i'm trying and can do without your popping in with one liners. you don't even have anxiety from what i understand.
you have 41 posts KK. why don't you just have one too?
.
I have been on NMP for 10 years. You've been here for one and a half. So I don't think you can compare.
You made it sound as if you only have ONE thread which is why I mentioned that you have 32.
Threads are merged by Admin as per NMP rules so can't comment on reasons. I don't think it is personal though.
nomorepanic
26-03-19, 16:08
EVERY OTHER person on this forum can do that but not me. i don't get it.
Well that is just not true.
Cofu this post was merged with your previous post as it shows a pattern, You do have other posts that have not been merged. As previously stated this is not personal It is not the number of posts that count, it is the content. You are far from the only person who has posts merged.
i was part of the anxiety zone forum before this one.
i have 32 posts over 1.5 years. so what? that's my point. this is an anxiety forum, a health anxiety forum. where people come to talk about health anxiety. and yep, turns out alot of people want reassurance about their latest concern. also, people want to hear from other's who may have worried about the same issue. to know that it is something that could possibly be benign. to know that others have had something similar. i already made an appt with my son's dermatologist, so i wasn't asking for medical advice.
i was merely asking here because i know so many people have the same freaking issues, and thought someone might know. i could go to google and ask, but google is not what i need to do. i was just trying to use this board the way other people do. but i don't get to do that anymore. i'm not hysterical. i'm not panicked, i was just wondering.
and i'm not even allowed to do that anymore.
i have gotten alot of advice on this thread and i'm really thankful for it. but i wanted it to be a thread about my main fears and my struggles to overcome them, and etc...
i merely just had a simple question about a freckle ...i wasn't hysterical or anything. can't even do that cause "it's a pattern". duh. it's health anxiety. there's the pattern.
geez. i'm so over this crap.
Cofo, take a breath? None of this is worth getting upset over.
Cofo, take a breath? None of this is worth getting upset over.
it's just ridiculous. i'm breathing fine :) thanks
Cofu this post was merged with your previous post as it shows a pattern, You do have other posts that have not been merged. As previously stated this is not personal It is not the number of posts that count, it is the content. You are far from the only person who has posts merged.
i can understand merging threads that are about the same issues over and over, but to merge threads because they are all about health anxiety doesn't make any sense.
everyone would only have one thread(like what mine is becoming).
But these posts are all similar, as I have already said you have other posts that have not been merged because they are totally different. Please do not get angry with us, we are sufferers too.
and fishmanpa - i am in therapy. you don't get this shit over with overnight. i usually take your advice, because you are a normal intelligent man, who usually offers some words of wisdom, but lately it's just been like this. and maybe you're tired of it.
i'm trying and can do without your popping in with one liners. you don't even have anxiety from what i understand.
Obviously, you're really having a bad day :weep:
It's interesting... You started therapy earlier in the month. I don't know how many sessions you've had but you were prescribed medication to help. You just posted that your therapist is out of town for a month so where does that leave you? No, you don't just get over it overnight but the journey to healing starts with taking small steps. You have something that can help you take another step and sadly, it's apparent from your reply, you haven't done so.
Its true, I don't suffer from anxiety. I have/had worries and concerns like anyone else but they don't manifest themselves into anything close to what I see on the boards. I did have a bout with depression for which I took Zoloft for 6 months while in therapy and I did suffer from "scanxiety" after my cancer and I took Buspar for a few weeks prior to the check ups as the real legitimate fear of it coming back was 50/50 for the first two years post treatment. The "scanxiety" manifested itself into extreme irritability. I thought I was doing Ok but when I was flipping out over the stupidest things, I knew I needed help. The Buspar had no side effects for me and I could start and stop as needed. It took the edge off. I called it my F off pill because it enabled me to tell my negativity to F off. My daughter is a severe sufferer of anxiety and depression so I do have some insight. I also recognized when these mental issues were manifesting themselves, sought help, took the meds and worked my ass off so I could move on and live my life. The difference was for me it was real due to actually having heart attacks and cancer vs. the fantastical nature of what you and others post about here.
I'll refrain completely from responding to your threads or posts from now on. I truly wish you healing and as always....
Positive thoughts
Obviously, you're really having a bad day :weep:
It's interesting... You started therapy earlier in the month. I don't know how many sessions you've had but you were prescribed medication to help. You just posted that your therapist is out of town for a month so where does that leave you? No, you don't just get over it overnight but the journey to healing starts with taking small steps. You have something that can help you take another step and sadly, it's apparent from your reply, you haven't done so.
Its true, I don't suffer from anxiety. I have/had worries and concerns like anyone else but they don't manifest themselves into anything close to what I see on the boards. I did have a bout with depression for which I took Zoloft for 6 months while in therapy and I did suffer from "scanxiety" after my cancer and I took Buspar for a few weeks prior to the check ups as the real legitimate fear of it coming back was 50/50 for the first two years post treatment. The "scanxiety" manifested itself into extreme irritability. I thought I was doing Ok but when I was flipping out over the stupidest things, I knew I needed help. The Buspar had no side effects for me and I could start and stop as needed. It took the edge off. I called it my F off pill because it enabled me to tell my negativity to F off. My daughter is a severe sufferer of anxiety and depression so I do have some insight. I also recognized when these mental issues were manifesting themselves, sought help, took the meds and worked my ass off so I could move on and live my life. The difference was for me it was real due to actually having heart attacks and cancer vs. the fantastical nature of what you and others post about here.
I'll refrain completely from responding to your threads or posts from now on. I truly wish you healing and as always....
Positive thoughts
if you feel like i've offended you i'm sorry. i'm just frustrated with what i see as a ridiculous way to handle posts about different topics and probably lashed out at you because of that. so i apologize. sorry.
i'm actually not having a bad day at all. i'm just tired of my posts getting merged. i think it's a stupid rule. ever since this thread was started on 3/3 i can no longer post anywhere but this thread. which means unless someone has been following this thread they are not likely to read it.
also, i get it. a pattern is a pattern. but honestly, this whole board is a pattern. that's my point.
actually i was not given medication. i have had 2 sessions and am working in a workbook while my therapist is out of town. and i have been taking lots of steps.
i too have had a real bout with my health. i had stage 2b breast cancer when i was 37 years old. i had surgeries, chemo, radiation and 10 years of medication. so i've been there too. i also have had scanxiety because of that. it's not the same.
AMomentofClarity
26-03-19, 16:36
Every Anxiety sufferer (myself included) thinks that every fear is different/independent of the rest. Today it’s this, tomorrow it’s that. But eventually, with treatment, you realize they’re all the same. Every “issue” is just part of an overall pattern of actively finding new things to worry about. When you treat the core issue, all the individual fears go as well.
I remember when my own HA was much worse than it is now; every time a new fear arose I can clearly remember telling my husband Yes, but this time it's different.
I remember when my own HA was much worse than it is now; every time a new fear arose I can clearly remember telling my husband Yes, but this time it's different.
yes, i get that. i understand that theory. and i subscribe to it.
but that's not where i'm coming from.
i don't know how else to explain myself. i'm frustrated with the way threads are merged.
merge all threads if this is the case. everyone's. all health anxiety sufferers would have ONE thread. one.
AMomentofClarity
26-03-19, 16:59
Here’s my overarching question....
you’re worried about thread merging because you don’t think someone will see the latest post about the freckle. I get that. But in the big picture/grand scheme of things, who cares?!?! Is a handful of Google University medical graduates telling you he’s fine going to make that big of a difference? Are you going to feel that much better better because some internet stranger with 0 formal medical training tells you it’s normal???
nomorepanic
26-03-19, 17:07
Please stop making such a big issue out of this and accept we will merge threads where we feel it is appropriate. Thanks
Please stop making such a big issue out of this and accept we will merge threads where we feel it is appropriate. Thanks
really. now you are telling me what i can make a big deal out of and what i can't? i feel pretty strongly about this. but that's not allowed?
i'm just dumbfounded here.
Here’s my overarching question....
you’re worried about thread merging because you don’t think someone will see the latest post about the freckle. I get that. But in the big picture/grand scheme of things, who cares?!?! Is a handful of Google University medical graduates telling you he’s fine going to make that big of a difference? Are you going to feel that much better better because some internet stranger with 0 formal medical training tells you it’s normal???
true. but i'm looking for someone who can relate to it. someone who may have had the same thing recently. someone who knows more about it first hand than i do. etc.
isn't that what every other person on this board is doing? i just don't see why i am not allowed to.
i truly appreciate your advice terry. i think you have very practical and hands on advice and i'm grateful. just fyi :)
nomorepanic
26-03-19, 17:59
really. now you are telling me what i can make a big deal out of and what i can't? i feel pretty strongly about this. but that's not allowed?
i'm just dumbfounded here.
I am not arguing with you over this. You have an issue with me anyway so I am not going to get into a long discussion about it.
my issue isn’t with “you” . I totally didn’t understand that one time when you said for me to go talk to real people. And I don’t care for the merging . So Don’t argue. .. I’m still dumbfounded over this merging theory.
I feel singled out for sure. But I’m tough. I’ll get past it.
I get some good advice here and so I guess I have to continue taking the good with the bad .
nomorepanic
26-03-19, 18:17
Please believe me we do it all the time - just have a look around at other threads that we merge a lot.
You have not been singled out as other members will tell you as they know how many threads we merge as some of them report them to us suggesting we merge them.
It was myself that merged your thread and I can assure you that you have not been singled out.
As I have said previously you have other threads that have not been merged due to their content.
Please do not take this personally, it is the our way of trying to make the forum manageable and usable for all.
I totally see how you’re feeling a bit singled out cofo.
Its done now though and there’s no point adding more stress to your already stressful week. If you think we may be able to help then let us know?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
nomorepanic
26-03-19, 18:36
Sorry but how are we singling cofo out over anyone else who's posts we merge and move every day?
I totally see how you’re feeling a bit singled out cofo.
Its done now though and there’s no point adding more stress to your already stressful week. If you think we may be able to help then let us know?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
thanks....:) i'm sure we'll get back to the regularly scheduled program soon HAHA.
Sorry but how are we singling cofo out over anyone else who's posts we merge and move every day?
It’s not just that, although I haven’t seen any of Helen’s posts merged today? Although to be fair I’m trying not to read them. The attacking is by pointing out how many threads she’s made (really helpful for someone with health anxiety), by just casually asking her if she’s taking her medication, by saying that she has a problem with you (I’m sure your job is very hard, but that kind of comment should maybe be in pm). By telling her to basically get over it. By telling her she must be having a bad day...
It’s not giving a good message to someone who is going through a rough patch. She’s got some valid points but there’s no discussion, just mostly finger pointing or telling her to get over it, or just implying that it’s not a big deal.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
AMomentofClarity
26-03-19, 18:57
It’s not just that, although I haven’t seen any of Helen’s posts merged today? Although to be fair I’m trying not to read them. The attacking is by pointing out how many threads she’s made (really helpful for someone with health anxiety), by just casually asking her if she’s taking her medication, by saying that she has a problem with you (I’m sure your job is very hard, but that kind of comment should maybe be in pm). By telling her to basically get over it. By telling her she must be having a bad day...
It’s not giving a good message to someone who is going through a rough patch. She’s got some valid points but there’s no discussion, just mostly finger pointing or telling her to get over it, or just implying that it’s not a big deal.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Just my 2 cents here.....
I don’t believe that the vast majority of that is “attacking.” It’s thought challenging, a key component of the CBT framework. Pick any frequent posters thread and read through it....how often does a cyber pat on the head and a “there there now now, you’ll be ok” really accomplish anything??? Most of those replying to posts have battled their way out of anxiety, and know what helped them. The OPs are presumably those stuck in an anxiety rut, trying to overcome it. So what’s wrong with replies that challenge the OPs thinking, framing answers in a way that would have helped them at their worst??? I consider that much more productive than feeding an insatiable need for constant reassurance myself.
If I post to an online fishing forum, “I go fishing every weekend and don’t catch fish”, presumably I’m looking for advice to change that no? And not just “there there, you’ll be ok.”
And finally, if having a thread merged in a volunteer use anxiety website is such a life altering event, you need to take a step back and evaluate yourself.
There’s a time and a place for a sympathy post, I agree. She wasn’t looking for sympathy. She was upset, and quite a few people barrelled in and made it worse. Well, that’s how I viewed it anyway.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Just my 2 cents here.....
I don’t believe that the vast majority of that is “attacking.” It’s thought challenging, a key component of the CBT framework. Pick any frequent posters thread and read through it....how often does a cyber pat on the head and a “there there now now, you’ll be ok” really accomplish anything??? Most of those replying to posts have battled their way out of anxiety, and know what helped them. The OPs are presumably those stuck in an anxiety rut, trying to overcome it. So what’s wrong with replies that challenge the OPs thinking, framing answers in a way that would have helped them at their worst??? I consider that much more productive than feeding an insatiable need for constant reassurance myself.
If I post to an online fishing forum, “I go fishing every weekend and don’t catch fish”, presumably I’m looking for advice to change that no? And not just “there there, you’ll be ok.”
And finally, if having a thread merged in a volunteer use anxiety website is such a life altering event, you need to take a step back and evaluate yourself.
woah. it's not a life altering event, to be clear. just because i was pushing back, and stating how i felt about merging threads and feeling singled out, does not mean that i'm slitting my wrists over this. not the case at all. so let's just be clear on that.
you have valid points about advice. i'm not asking anyone to stop giving me advice. i haven't said that at all. i welcome it. i want help. i want support.
There’s a time and a place for a sympathy post, I agree. She wasn’t looking for sympathy. She was upset, and quite a few people barrelled in and made it worse. Well, that’s how I viewed it anyway.
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and that's how it felt. thanks for understanding.
nomorepanic
26-03-19, 19:39
I was upset too as the admins were accused of singling her out and that is not the case but then we are admins so that is ok to have a go at us.:lac:
This is a free website run by volunteers as was said above.
She was upset, and quite a few people barrelled in and made it worse. Well, that’s how I viewed it anyway.
"Barrelled in..."? :roflmao:
Cofo was being belligerent so I clarified her statement of having all her posts merged into just ONE thread when in fact she had many more that weren't merged.
And I believe you are being a hypocrite, Scass, because you yourself can be direct and very blunt when the mood takes you :lac:
I was upset too as the admins were accused of singling her out and that is not the case but then we are admins so that is ok to have a go at us.:lac:
This is a free website run by volunteers as was said above.
It’s not ok to have a go at anyone on this site or any others, it’s just not fair. But.... Cofo was questioning your decision which she should be allowed to do. In my opinion it escalated because others got involved. Cofo has apologised to lots of people, I don’t think anyone but you have apologised to her.
"Barrelled in..."? :roflmao:
Cofo was being belligerent so I clarified her statement of having all her posts merged into just ONE thread when in fact she had many more that weren't merged.
And I believe you are being a hypocrite, Scass, because you yourself can be direct and very blunt when the mood takes you :lac:
Yes barrelled. Just like you’re calling cofo belligerent and me a blunt hypocrite. Any more choice insults?
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It’s not ok to have a go at anyone on this site or any others, it’s just not fair. But.... Cofo was questioning your decision which she should be allowed to do. In my opinion it escalated because others got involved. Cofo has apologised to lots of people, I don’t think anyone but you have apologised to her.
Yes barrelled. Just like you’re calling cofo belligerent and me a blunt hypocrite. Any more choice insults?
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YOU are the one now "escalating" this argument. Why did you even get involved?
And to accuse me of "attacking" another member by questioning an incorrect statement isn't inflammatory?
So what have you gained from your self-righteous intervention, Scass? :lac:
venusbluejeans
26-03-19, 21:10
Woah.... chill.... I think it is time to get the thread back on course again now.... there really is no point in stressing yourself about it (any of you)
Have a good evening all :)
"Barrelled in..."? :roflmao:
Cofo was being belligerent so I clarified her statement of having all her posts merged into just ONE thread when in fact she had many more that weren't merged.
And I believe you are being a hypocrite, Scass, because you yourself can be direct and very blunt when the mood takes you :lac:
i wasn't being belligerent. at all. i wasn't hostile. i was/am frustrated.
i've posted about this forum merging posts before, and i stand by what i'm saying. i don't agree with it. and i felt singled out. that doesn't make me hostile. or aggressive. i was expressing my frustration.
i never insulsted anyone. and i wasn't having a "go" at anyone. i am sorry if you felt that way. i just really hate the merging of the threads and i still don't think it makes any sense. it's my opinion. you are welcome to yours, but i don't have to agree with it. and that doesn't make me belligerent.
and venus you are right. let's move on.
so. has anyone ever had a freckle on their lip? :shrug::doh:
AMomentofClarity
26-03-19, 22:19
so. has anyone ever had a freckle on their lip? :shrug::doh:
What does that have to do with this thread.........:shrug:
JUST KIDDING!!!!!
LouiseAndy
26-03-19, 22:23
My best friend had loads, she recently got them removed because they were dark shade of brown and she didn't like how they made her look
venusbluejeans
26-03-19, 23:02
yeah it is quite normal to have freckles/moles and new freckles/moles anywhere on the body especially on areas which are exposed to the sun
From what I've read, it's especially common in young people - at that age, the body is in a state of flux, anyway.
At a young age I had them on my lips, my face was freckle-covered and here in 'celtic lands' its really common so I don't think you'd even think twice about it to be honest. They appeared one by one over years and oddly from 30 onwards started disappearing.
At a young age I had them on my lips, my face was freckle-covered and here in 'celtic lands' its really common so I don't think you'd even think twice about it to be honest. They appeared one by one over years and oddly from 30 onwards started disappearing.
interesting. especially that they disappeared.
my son, 18, is half latino(cuban), so he has naturally dark hair, skin, eyes....but he has had weird moles from day 1. he was born with a couple of weird moles and they were removed when he was five, the one op was totally benign, but onewas atypical. so, he sees a derm yearly, and has a history of weird moles.
he just saw the derm in october. i made an appt for 2 weeks from now, and i'll try to just wait and see.
it's just odd that he's not fair skinned at all, but has this issue.
Cofo, I know you're probably not identifiable, but for your son's sake, maybe don't discuss his intimate anatomy on a public forum? If my parent had done something like that to me at that age, I'd have found it hard to forgive them.
Cofo, I know you're probably not identifiable, but for your son's sake, maybe don't discuss his intimate anatomy on a public forum? If my parent had done something like that to me at that age, I'd have found it hard to forgive them.
it's not intimate, it's part of the body. but since it came across that way, i have edited it.
ankietyjoe
28-03-19, 21:02
Cofo, I know you're probably not identifiable, but for your son's sake, maybe don't discuss his intimate anatomy on a public forum? If my parent had done something like that to me at that age, I'd have found it hard to forgive them.
I disagree. No harm at all here.
so. long story short. got to condo, checked bed for bedbugs. found casings and droppings on box springs. this is what you look for, cause you will not always see live bugs, they hide. freaked out. management came and moved us to another condo in the same building(all that was available)and it's the one right above the one with bedbugs.
pest control can't come out til monday to verify, although i KNOW that's what they are. i'm just hoping maybe it was an old infestation or something.
i'm so uncomforable and upset because now we have to stay at the one right above the one with bugs.
i'm not sure how i'm going to do this. we slept here last night. 3 more nights to go. my fear is bringing the bugs home wiith me, not necessarily the bugs themselves. i walked all in the other condo, and even stood on the box spring at one point to pickup the mattress. i hope i didn't get their eggs on my shoes.
i am at a loss here.
You’re ok, it’s ok. It’s so unlikely that you’ll bring them home because you know what to do and will be vigilant. Please don’t let this ruin your break ok? I know it’s very unpleasant but it’s not tragic and nobody is ill or hurt. Not long to go until you can get it all checked out properly & get some advice from the fumigators x
You’re ok, it’s ok. It’s so unlikely that you’ll bring them home because you know what to do and will be vigilant. Please don’t let this ruin your break ok? I know it’s very unpleasant but it’s not tragic and nobody is ill or hurt. Not long to go until you can get it all checked out properly & get some advice from the fumigators x
thanks. i am trying to keep it in mind that it is not life threatening. i'm trying not to let it ruin my break, but i do feel sad. i feel like "why me" and i hate that feeling.
my friends have a gorgeous condo, 3 floors up, very clean and bed bug free and i feel very jealous. thankfully, my son is staying with them and we've been spending alot of time there. but i have to sleep here, and my stuff is here. just one floor right above the bedbug condo. which just creeps me out. i want to go home, but i dread trying to make sure that all my stuff isn't contaminated with bed bugs and their eggs.
i actually got up close and personal to the bed and mattress and had my body, and shoes and etc, all over it, trying to lift the mattress with my husband and checking it so thoroughly that i feel like the eggs probably got on me. i washed my clothes but, with ocd, you know how that goes...
anyway, i think the pest control is coming today. she said they would check my current condo too. so i think that will make me feel better....or well, worse. !
if they are in this condo, i will die, since i spent two nights here already!
thank you for your advice. i've read it over several times. :)
Here is hoping that Pest Control have good news for you.
At the worst they should be able to give you advice on how to ensure that you do not take them home with you.
Here is hoping that Pest Control have good news for you.
At the worst they should be able to give you advice on how to ensure that you do not take them home with you.
Thank you. Still waiting. Talk about exposure therapy. I keep trying to figure out how to use this to get my self better.latelt I have made a conscious effort to try to get my anxiety under controlZ I was trying to expose myself to small things to help myself gradually to desensitize and all that , But it’s my biggest fear...I didn’t realize I would be facing it right now. But since I am, what can I do mentally to help myself. Now. In this moment?
But since I am, what can I do mentally to help myself. Now. In this moment?
Answering my "what ifs" with "so whats" can help me stop spiraling. It helps me see the logical and reasonable steps that I can take in the instance any of my catastrophizing comes to be, and it makes it all seems like less of a catastrophe.
What if there were bed bugs in the first room?
So, what if there were - the chances of bringing them upstairs with you are slim.
What if you did bring them upstairs and they got on your stuff?
So, what if you did - you will ask the exterminator what actions to take to avoid bringing them home with you.
What if you bring them home with you anyway?
So, what if you do - you will bring in an exterminator and take action against them. People get bed bugs and survive. They are gross but nothing more than an expensive nuisance.
This exercise always knocks my fears down a notch - like, bring it on! I have an answer for you!
Answering my "what ifs" with "so whats" can help me stop spiraling. It helps me see the logical and reasonable steps that I can take in the instance any of my catastrophizing comes to be, and it makes it all seems like less of a catastrophe.
What if there were bed bugs in the first room?
So, what if there were - the chances of bringing them upstairs with you are slim.
What if you did bring them upstairs and they got on your stuff?
So, what if you did - you will ask the exterminator what actions to take to avoid bringing them home with you.
What if you bring them home with you anyway?
So, what if you do - you will bring in an exterminator and take action against them. People get bed bugs and survive. They are gross but nothing more than an expensive nuisance.
This exercise always knocks my fears down a notch - like, bring it on! I have an answer for you!
this is an excellent exercise. i already do this naturally of course, but to see it written out this way, is so helpful.
my therapist told me a long time ago that i needed to just say "#@&! it". kinda like saying "so what". i do sometimes get to that point with some things, but haven't been able to with BB. also, all of my friends here are not helping much with that. they are telling me things like i have to bleach all my stuff, and go to the laundrymat, and you can't get rid of those things if you get them, and what a nightmare, etc. they are NOT helping with the so what game.
anyway, i have managed to have some fun while i was here. i'm dreading going home now tomorrow because of all the work and anxiety of making sure i'm not bringing these bugs home with me. i'm really concerned about the clothes and shoes i had on. i washed them and then i put them in with my other things. so that's kinda making me cringe.
maybe i got some eggs on my clothes when i was fooling with the mattress/boxsprings/sheets, etc. of course, i walked into this new condo with those clothes on too. anyway, i guess that's why i'm going to take precautions.
the pest guy came and checked my bedrooms in the current condo and they checked out so that's a relief. he confirmed that what i found in the original condo was in fact bed bug casings and droppings though. of course i already knew that. he didn't find any live bugs, so he's not sure if it is a new or old infestation.
i wish i could use this as an exposure therapy somehow. but i fear that this is just going to reinforce the need for checking and worrying about them.
i'm not sure how i'll be able to go to hotels again. how can i spin this to help me, instead of hurt me with this fear?
I’m glad you’ve been enjoying yourself.
I imagine that when you get home you’ll was everything again anyway? Maybe if you have a steam cleaner you could use that on your cases.
The important thing is that you managed and you did well.
cognitive behavioral therapy - anyone here have specific steps that they would use in my situation? is it really just changing the negative thoughts to positive ones? does anyone find it scary to do that? like, somehow my negative thoughts are keeping me safer than the positive ones would? i can't quite explain what i mean, but i'm actually afraid to think positively.
i do feel so alone. my sisters are 4 hours drive away, and while i talk to them daily, it's not the same as having someone here. my husband lives in his own little world, and is sick of my anxiety. my closest friends don't live here either. the friends i do have here are more like "surface" friends. so, i feel so responsible for my son by myself. my sister asked me what the worst thing would be if i got bedbugs, and i said that i was scared we would have a really hard time getting rid of them, and it could take weeks or months and we wouldn't be able to go to anyone else's house, or have anyone else come here, and my son would have bites all over him and have to attend school and graduation like that, and then we would all be ostracized from everyone else, and it would just be us three and since my husband lives in his own little world, it would really just be me and my son, and i'd have to be the sole person trying to make his life ok, when i would be feeling so alone in my life. so, while i do not want the bugs, it's really the anxiety and aloneness that they create that i'm afraid of.
how's that for some psychoanalysis? ;)
so, i have washed and washed and dried and dried and inspected and vacuumed most of our stuff. i have yet to be able to bring the shoes inside. i didn't see any bugs on them, but i'm afraid maybe some eggs might have traveled home with us, and since they are so hard to see, it's making me scared to bring anything inside.
i kept my duffle bag on top of the ironing board(makeshift luggage rack), adjacent to the bedroom(the bedroom and bath vanity/closet didn't have a door, just open to each other(the toilet shower area was separate), so that part was basically in the bedroom, is my point. and when i was unpacking i noticed that the duffle had a smudge on the seam of the zipper. it looked like the smudge signs of fecal matter. it was on the top and bottom seam. so, of course, that freaks me out. the pest control guy checked my bed in the new condo. he said if they were there they'd be in the bed cause they are basically lazy and want to stay close to their hosts, so if we had bugs in there we would have been bit, since we stayed 4 nights. although once i read that it can take 2 weeks for bites to react. but i'm scared that i carried a bug in from the luggage cart when it was in the other condo. it got on my bag then and who knows where it went!! or if there were more!
if i could have a plan just in case i get them. but i can't research it because no matter how hard i try to avoid the fear mongering it always shows up when i google.
oh, and of course yesterday, i got an itchy bug bite on my forearm. i have had on long sleeves so i'm not sure what it is. that's not comforting at all.
So, one of my favourite things from CBT is the worry diary and worry tree.
Worry diary - write down your worries as they pop into your head through the day, don’t spend any more time thinking about them after you’ve written them down. Schedule a time every day (not right before bed) to spend half an hour on your worry diary. Read through it, add to it, categorise the worries (see worry tree). Then after your half an hour, go off and do something that will consume & distract you. Cooking or cleaning, exercise, watch tv.... anything to reset yourself.
Worry tree: our worries should be able to be categorised into hypothetical and practical.
Eg. Worrying you may have picked up bedbugs is a hypothetical worry because you have no idea if you have. Plus you’re then catastrophising that worry.
Worrying that you don’t have enough money to pay a bill is kind of a practical worry. It’s something that you can apply problem solving to, like discussing with the supplier etc.
Once you have categorised your bedbug worries into hypothetical worries, you need to let them go. You need to realise that there is nothing else you can do, you have done everything you can and you are doing no good worrying about something that may never happen. So let it go. Strike it off your list of things to worry about. Every time the thought pops up, write it down to think about later in your allotted worry time, then again, decide if it’s a worry you can do anything about? You will hopefully eventually make it so unimportant that it’ll disappear.
I think that’s it anyway....
AMomentofClarity
05-04-19, 17:40
The CBT question.....
Its not about changing negative thoughts to positive, it’s about challenging the realisticness of the negative thoughts and the worst case scenarios you create in your mind.
First it’s ok, what are really the odds that you picked up bed bugs and brought them home with you. In your anxious mind it’s 90%, in reality it’s probably like 10%. Then challenging the worst case scenario....moving from the anxious “it’s going to ruin my life” to the realistic “here’s what it would look like and here’s how we’d address it.”
Its essentially trying to get your mind into a similar place as a non anxious person.
As such, granted I don’t know the details, when you say “my husband lives in his own little world”, I read:
My husband doesn’t have anxiety so he won’t indulge my catastrophic thinking.:shrug:
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