Today’s headlines .........

[mezzaninedoor]

So today I was reading that in at least 10 councils in England, Agency Social Workers make up 30 to 45% of the Social Work work force. When you consider how bad we are are getting people into the Nursing profession currently can we ask when and why did these gaps get so big and begin to cost so much. Agency staff mean increased costs but also Agency fees meaning money not going on care but on Agency fees ?!?

Apparently £350 million was spent on Agency Social Workers in 17-18.

The Guardian carries comment from Social Workers that locum jobs just help them pay the bills better where as salaries in Council posts are just not competitive.

Now an an interesting thing I never realised about Agencies from a tax point of view, some of the biggest recruitment agencies have head companies that are registered in the Cayman Islands so I’m guessing some creative accounting is going on as well here.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Part of it is about outsourcing too. Agencies save you needing to pay for advertising and some level of weeding out of unsuitable candidates. In some jobs companies do little of the interviewing at all and even don't take responsibility for HR.

That would be unlikely in a role such as social workers.

We also pay a fortune to private mental health therapists. Then there are people like Capita for various roles that would have been civil service in the past.

A big question is what is the quality like? Is it worse when through private companies?

[mezzaninedoor]

Part of it is about outsourcing too. Agencies save you needing to pay for advertising and some level of weeding out of unsuitable candidates. In some jobs companies do little of the interviewing at all and even don't take responsibility for HR.

That would be unlikely in a role such as social workers.

We also pay a fortune to private mental health therapists. Then there are people like Capita for various roles that would have been civil service in the past.

A big question is what is the quality like? Is it worse when through private companies?

I think thats the $64,000 dollar question, what is the quality? It seems the suspicion is that its worse than directly employed staff but the information on quality seems slim. I've always been nervous of the need to ensure that the Social & Civil services can be carved up by private companies.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Yep, this is an area that should be very tightly controlled but we've seen the horrendous mistakes of Social Services in the past. I take it they have full oversight in any private social workers and their cases so it's more about ensuring they have the right qualifications & experience to do the work.

But there are major issues with social care in general that has been privatised. Care homes need much more control. I think I remember signing a petition to create a post for a minister to take this on as a distinct role. Currently it's part of the NHS in terms of ministerial remit. I wonder whether that means it gets largely ignored in favour of the NHS who are much more vocal?

Outsourcing allows them to bring people in and dump them out as demand changes. I would find it hard to believe this is an area that ever decreases though.

[mezzaninedoor]

Yes, it doesnt feel like an outsourcing model is needed as demand for Social Services appears to be increasing across the board.
Social Care for the Elderly - Increasing in need.
Social Workers for Familial problems - Increasing in need.
I think your instincts for a Minister with Oversight is probably right and proper. Im guessing its overseen by by CQC as are Hospitals and GP Surgeries.

[KK77]

Here's my photo of a black hole.
4734
If you look really closely you'll see Brexit stuck in the event horizon forever...........................:scared15:
Aye, Pain. Stretched and extended like a piece of spaghetti for ever :lac:

[mezzaninedoor]

Here's my photo of a black hole.
4734
If you look really closely you'll see Brexit stuck in the event horizon forever...........................:scared15:

All that surrounding gas from Boris, Mogg, May & Gove ..........

[MyNameIsTerry]

Here's my photo of a black hole.
4734
If you look really closely you'll see Brexit stuck in the event horizon forever...........................:scared15:

Is that BoJo's 3rd nipple? :biggrin:

[MyNameIsTerry]

It is pretty amazing we have photos of a black hole though or rather what's around it. How sad Stephen Hawking wasn't around to see it.

[KK77]

Perhaps Hawking is IN the black hole?

I fear Brexit will soon be entering its event horizon never to be seen in its "intended form" again :lac:

[MyNameIsTerry]

There are some very strange things going on in London at the moment. For instance, climate change protesters are currently bringing the place to a stand still. But what's strange about this? Look at some of the photos and see how old some of them are and mixed with with lots of young people. I thought all the oldies were to wished into death for Brexit :winks:

In other news 1 in 3 people aged 18-34 aren't even registered to vote. What? After the last 2 years? So, they are as apathetic about politics as before.

And in religious news former Pope (I thought you had to die? :ohmy:) writes about how child abuse is caused by priests not being allowed to have sex and changing attitudes in the church towards sex taking them away from traditional teachings. This follows 2 cardinals (they were senior, if not) writing exactly the same not long ago.

Will the Roman Catholic Church ever move forward from enabling child abuse? :doh:

Lots of people are celibate whether through choice or not. The traditional move of the cheater has been to find another partner or visit a prostitute and NOT to abuse children :mad:

[MyNameIsTerry]

How do you know he isn't? Perhaps he was a metaphysicist - metempsychosis...?


Perhaps Hawking is IN the black hole?

I fear Brexit will soon be entering its event horizon never to be seen in its "intended form" again :lac:

True. Maybe he uploaded himself and he's now some powerful AI? Imagine the level of memory needed for The Hawk's brain...mine would get uploaded on a ZX Spectrum. http://yoursmiles.org/tsmile/disgust/t9408.gif (http://yoursmiles.org/t-disgust.php)

I like how they called the telescope the Event Horizon Telescope. I've seen that film...:ohmy: When they develop the photos (a dark room for developing photos of a black hole :biggrin:) will some evil seep out of them? It's a future plotline for a film at least.

[mezzaninedoor]

There are some very strange things going on in London at the moment. For instance, climate change protesters are currently bringing the place to a stand still. But what's strange about this? Look at some of the photos and see how old some of them are and mixed with with lots of young people. I thought all the oldies were to wished into death for Brexit :winks:

In other news 1 in 3 people aged 18-34 aren't even registered to vote. What? After the last 2 years? So, they are as apathetic about politics as before.

And in religious news former Pope (I thought you had to die? :ohmy:) writes about how child abuse is caused by priests not being allowed to have sex and changing attitudes in the church towards sex taking them away from traditional teachings. This follows 2 cardinals (they were senior, if not) writing exactly the same not long ago.

Will the Roman Catholic Church ever move forward from enabling child abuse? :doh:

Lots of people are celibate whether through choice or not. The traditional move of the cheater has been to find another partner or visit a prostitute and NOT to abuse children :mad:

1. There are still plenty of old Hippies out there it seems, the Blackpool shale gas protests are primarily older folks when I have driven by.
2. 1 in 3 not registered to vote, I think this is really really sad, we need this apathy broken somehow ..... I dont know how to do it with integrity though. You can almost see marketing execs thinking lets use Reality TV stars and the Beckhams to get youngsters on board and that feels low rent.
3. I think the restrictions of your faith should not result in child abuse, child abuse is weak humanity and can not just be wished away as a result of celibacy. People should be stronger than that when it comes to under age sex. Attitudes to adult sex probably need to change but thats no excuse for child abuse. I agree with you, infidelity by Adults consensually is an outcome you can live with.
4. The RCC is trapped in a dialogue with itself that is like the Ourubourus worm.

[MyNameIsTerry]

1. There are still plenty of old Hippies out there it seems, the Blackpool shale gas protests are primarily older folks when I have driven by.
2. 1 in 3 not registered to vote, I think this is really really sad, we need this apathy broken somehow ..... I dont know how to do it with integrity though. You can almost see marketing execs thinking lets use Reality TV stars and the Beckhams to get youngsters on board and that feels low rent.
3. I think the restrictions of your faith should not result in child abuse, child abuse is weak humanity and can not just be wished away as a result of celibacy. People should be stronger than that when it comes to under age sex. Attitudes to adult sex probably need to change but thats no excuse for child abuse. I agree with you, infidelity by Adults consensually is an outcome you can live with.
4. The RCC is trapped in a dialogue with itself that is like the Ourubourus worm.

1. True. Plus when it comes to local protesting it's going to bring out older generations with more roots.

2. Yes, I hope we don't come to this more Americanised way to grab voters through pop star influence or siding with their reality stars who are likely seen as a cynical way to buy voters (I thought that about the Clinton vs Trump one).

How do we compare to other countries? Is it not a localised trend?

Is it because society is changing it's priorities? Maybe we have so much on the go these days we don't see voting as such a big deal anymore? It used to be a bit of a right of passage as learning to drive or moving out might be, becoming 18 and 21 key to the door stuff. Now you matter, now you have a say and people listen which was something younger people wanted.

By 34 you most likely have a family, mortgage, settled career, etc so I find it quite strange they are so low. I could understand it the closer you get to 20 as you naturally are getting out there and enjoying you freedom but not at 30.

[MyNameIsTerry]

About youth voting...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39965925


Just 43% of 18-24-year-olds went to the polls, compared with 78% of people aged 65 or over, according to Ipsos Mori. (To estimate how many old and young people vote at elections, you have to look at opinion polls). That's a huge gap of 35 percentage points. There's been a similar gulf for the past 20 years, but it wasn't always like that. As recently as 1992, the gap was just 12 percentage points. Then, 63% of 18-24-year-olds voted. The old aren't voting more now - but the young are voting far less.In some ways, the low turnout isn't surprising. Young people are mobile and many are students who live away from home - groups which have among the lowest levels of voter registration, according to the Electoral Commission. They are often voting for the first time, so haven't developed a habit, unlike many older people.

What a pathetic excuse, student mobility. As students they will be paying utility bills, have tenancy agreements, etc and yet a very quick online registration to vote is too much for them?

They haven't developed a habit yet we keep seeing them marching for their future?

I remember when I turned 18 I was encouraged by my parents not only for the right to vote as having a say but also that it would help with building my credit profile. Surely the latter at the least is worth something to young people?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42747342

So, now real change in the vocal youth groups that are complaining their future is on the line? Yet in the media we so often hear the young are mobilising to change things around. Where are they? They still aren't voting. So, are we just being misled and it's only vocal minorities?

[mezzaninedoor]

I was so incredibly keen to vote as soon as I was 18. I wonder what has seen this malaise set in with the young, is it too much to feel that they don't feel listened to or is it simply that they just don't really care about politics ??

What do we think we should do about it ? Should we have compulsory voting but you are allowed to spoil your ballot if you want none of the above ?

[MyNameIsTerry]

A rough week for poor Jeremy Corbyn, what with the protesters glued to the wall outside his house (it would have been hilarious if the media pulled up to see him telling them to clear off :roflmao:), Shadow Home Secretary Dianne Abbott flouting the no alcohol rules and then the mistake of bread at Passover when wishing the largely alienated Jewish community a pleasant time :doh::roflmao:

[MyNameIsTerry]

I was so incredibly keen to vote as soon as I was 18. I wonder what has seen this malaise set in with the young, is it too much to feel that they don't feel listened to or is it simply that they just don't really care about politics ??

What do we think we should do about it ? Should we have compulsory voting but you are allowed to spoil your ballot if you want none of the above ?

Me too, a bit of a right of passage like driving, moving out, getting your first job, etc. Perhaps not as big but another one of those things where you felt you were finally joining the world that previously saw you as a child.

It seems to have happened since 1992. I'm wondering whether it's more a cultural thing? Maybe the advent of all the new technology has shifted their focus into new areas?

I'm not sure how they would even know no one cared about their votes & views at that age as they are naïve about life as we all were. Apathy usually kicks in later when you realise it's all pointless as it's SSDD no matter what you do. I don't think they have the excuse someone closer to 30 has.

I'm not against compulsory voting, imagine how that would have helped Brexit :winks:, as long as it's sensible about why & how you can opt out. Don't New Zealand have it?

Since nothing has changed despite all the furore over youth vote mobilisation it makes you wonder whether even creating a voting app would deal with it? Perhaps you earn some Likes if you bother to vote? :whistles: The Pope seems to have embraced the new age by offering reductions in your purgatory that used to take real effort, now reduced to liking him on Facebook :doh: Talk about cheapening things.

More education perhaps? Schools do a lot more these days than we were young. Sex education was all very new when I was about 14 and other than that all we ever had were lessons about our subjects. Now they are being proactive in teaching about respect for difference, LGBT+ issues, etc. Why not politics too? But I don't mean create an opportunity for brainwashing, and teachers are more liberal in nature, and we don't want the whole pushing of activism seen at universities. But why not some awareness of why you can vote?

[mezzaninedoor]

More education perhaps? Schools do a lot more these days than we were young. Sex education was all very new when I was about 14 and other than that all we ever had were lessons about our subjects. Now they are being proactive in teaching about respect for difference, LGBT+ issues, etc. Why not politics too? But I don't mean create an opportunity for brainwashing, and teachers are more liberal in nature, and we don't want the whole pushing of activism seen at universities. But why not some awareness of why you can vote?


I would like to see General Studies make a proper return as I feel that we ought to teach children impartially about current affairs but they also need lessons on money management & budgeting etc. Maybe some lessons regards volunteering and charity and how all that works.

[MyNameIsTerry]

I would like to see General Studies make a proper return as I feel that we ought to teach children impartially about current affairs but they also need lessons on money management & budgeting etc. Maybe some lessons regards volunteering and charity and how all that works.

Yes, I agree with all that. I don't know what it's like now but in my day primary school was more important to your life in terms of getting you prepped, secondary was just about passing your GCSE's. Even the careers advice stuff was just woeful.

Considering they are doing more for sex education and sexuality/gender issues and trying to teach more inclusivity I would think they could include what you say to make it more about moving into adulthood.

I can't remember at what stage I learned how Bills become Acts, how tax works, etc. Likely it was across different subjects (we had a fantastic history teacher). But General Studies was Sixth Form for us (I opted for Business Studies instead, those who did GS said it wasn't very good though) which is too late.

Something more like this would be like other countries. The US seem to teach their constitution early on. Germany have something called Ethics which replaced any teaching of religious studies (that was the worst subject I did in secondary and I recall it was really more about Christianity) and I wonder if they cover far right stuff too as they have strict laws because of their recent history so they are more sensitive to those issues of hate.

This really wouldn't take much at all. It's a different debate to whether GCSE's are much use and whether more practical training is needed. I think for most of us are GCSE's were just bits of paper to get you to the next stage...some of this I learned I have only found myself using when answering TV game shows! :biggrin:

[MyNameIsTerry]

This is three days out of date, but never mind - there's nothing else in the news worthy of attention:shades:. *Who calls their dog ‘Jesus’?:ohmy: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-47997507 (https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjVu7HLtePhAhX9UhUIHXG6ChcQFjABegQIChAF&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk-england-birmingham-47997507&usg=AOvVaw1WB4VlrKl-0VYUvZ3hhWrs) When I saw this story I wondered why, given the dog’s name, it didn’t just walk back to dry land. Then I thought what would have been more amusing would’ve been if that dog had been trapped in a cave, but when the fire brigade rolled away the stone blocking the entrance, all they found was its collar… *Joseph and Mary Carpenter…?:noangel:No dogs were harmed in the making of these jokes!Did he emerge to cries of "he hath risen!" :yesyes:

[mezzaninedoor]

I’m 54 years old and I had General Studies alongside my O levels. It did cover a little bit of Local Government & Home Economics but then the rest of it seemed to deal with Modern History, like post 2nd World War. I think Democracy, Economics, Budgeting, Current Affairs etc would have helped more. The most political subject for me was RE O level that I took in my lunch breaks as an extra subject. To be honest that was the only subject where we ever discussed morals and rich and poor. In History we even tended to just learn by wrote, no debate.

[mezzaninedoor]

The news is saying Extinction Rebellion is the biggest civil disobedience in modern U.K. history if you base it on arrests made.

i saw a great placard from a youngster ‘If you can’t be Adults then we will’, thought that was classy

[MyNameIsTerry]

I’m 54 years old and I had General Studies alongside my O levels. It did cover a little bit of Local Government & Home Economics but then the rest of it seemed to deal with Modern History, like post 2nd World War. I think Democracy, Economics, Budgeting, Current Affairs etc would have helped more. The most political subject for me was RE O level that I took in my lunch breaks as an extra subject. To be honest that was the only subject where we ever discussed morals and rich and poor. In History we even tended to just learn by wrote, no debate.

I'm 43 and O Levels were out when I was at school. I wonder if that caused some of the change?

From reading about the experiences of others at school online it feels like it can depend on the quality of school. I went to a secondary modern but I've seen those saying they attended grammar schools found there was much more than the curriculum being taught.

[MyNameIsTerry]

The news is saying Extinction Rebellion is the biggest civil disobedience in modern U.K. history if you base it on arrests made.

i saw a great placard from a youngster ‘If you can’t be Adults then we will’, thought that was classy

I for one have just planted 2000 trees in the fields around my home to offset Emma Thompson's next film.

[mezzaninedoor]

I for one have just planted 2000 trees in the fields around my home to offset Emma Thompson's next film.

hahaha, yes I think the irony of Emma flying in for the protests was perhaps lost on her

however, the climate rebels are asking the right questions surely, Greta Thunberg for me is to be admired, has her Aspergers given her some clear sight that this is just all wrong and something needs to happen

renewables are out there to be used far more widely than we are

[MyNameIsTerry]

hahaha, yes I think the irony of Emma flying in for the protests was perhaps lost on her

however, the climate rebels are asking the right questions surely, Greta Thunberg for me is to be admired, has her Aspergers given her some clear sight that this is just all wrong and something needs to happen

renewables are out there to be used far more widely than we are

If she was flying back home anyway, and not making a special trip to offer support, then I can let her off for that. It's more that in her line of work she will be dwarfing my footprint and yet she wants me to change! :lac:

I think someone so young being passionate is a good thing but there is a lot of hysterics over all this too and that just puts them into loon territory. Storming out of interviews, acting like children spitting dummies. Their tactics are dubious and there selection of dates odd. Shut down the place when the politicians are in town, not when they are no their hols :doh:

I find their targeting of social travel strange. These methods help reduce car use. If we were at a stage where cars we out and the trains were now the problem then I could see it but their message at the moment seems to be to boycott public transport. And their reduction targets seem unrealistic. Five years is nothing.

The UK seem to be doing well in reduction targets. The trouble is, if the US & China don't want to play ball they will take us all down with them even if we had 0% of anything.

Wasn't there a recent study that said we are already past the point of no return? We can still try to slow it down at least.

But I think the issue here isn't the public but the corporations. They will keep pumping out all their plastic until they forced not too. Some companies are making efforts, I get updates about the campaign to stop making plastic rings for beer, so people are having an impact. For me though these people are taking on an issue with a reasonable head on their shoulders and not this over the top stuff that will just turn the public off them. We are limited in the choices we can make to purchase, and not all of us are as privileged as some of the people in XR :whistles:, and we will all be contributing negatively because of globalisation.

But I do hope none of these supporters are vocal against things that bring business back to the smaller business? They are aware that means higher pricing? :winks:

[Hollow]

hahaha, yes I think the irony of Emma flying in for the protests was perhaps lost on her

however, the climate rebels are asking the right questions surely, Greta Thunberg for me is to be admired, has her Aspergers given her some clear sight that this is just all wrong and something needs to happen

renewables are out there to be used far more widely than we are

TBH, she is just another useful idiot for the Oligarchs, like Malala Yousafzai and many others. Although, she does seem to be much smarter than Malala. Using children to push their nefarious agendas is a favourite modus operandi of the establishment. They have been at this for a long time.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-avPssrnaKi8/XIyoO4_oarI/AAAAAAABM1I/D5LqXF72QcwwMuRbFEapk12EkhgeXLnWgCLcBGAs/s1600/nayirah.jpg

[MyNameIsTerry]

This is something I found incredibly sad:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mum-filmed-having-row-boyfriend-14548405



A mum-of-four filmed in a Twitter video rowing with her boyfriend was found dead at her home.

Maureen Bowcock, 40, was battling depression and was 'devastated' when the footage went viral online, an inquest heard. The 30 second video appeared to show her angrily prise open the door of a moving bus before chasing her partner down the street.

An inquest heard Miss Bowcock became so worried about the effect the film would have on her children she began drinking heavily.


All for the clicks and a good laugh and a troll. She won't be the first or last to feel this way but social media will continue to allow people to act like the horrible people they are and give them a platform to take their issues out on others.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Huawei :ohmy: How many times can Mrs May make the wrong decision on any subject and still be considered competent (she’s got a popularity rating in her own party of minus 73.5% for goodness sake!)?

Reminiscent of a recent Bond film? Or maybe the US Homefront 2 game where the North Korean's put their chips into everything and when the US defaulted on their debt they pulled the plug and invaded.

GCHQ say they can monitor them by keeping them close. Given the close interests of the Chinese government in what their corporations do I wonder how they can keep them out of our security?

[MyNameIsTerry]

Placing this here for Tony (our Tony) who I believe will find this an interesting, but sad, read due to his own bipolar and love of improv as I expect he well remembers the very talented Tony Slattery:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/apr/29/tony-slattery-had-very-happy-time-went-slightly-barmy

He looks older than his years and from his frank account he still has battles with drink or at least some extra way to go in removing it from his life. Now he ahs ended his meds that must raise some further concerns especially adding the stress of work on top of it.

I always wondered why he disappeared. He was a good actor as well as comedian and I could see him doing so well in the same way the likes of Fry, Laurie, etc have. A great shame. Hopefully he can recover enough to have his later years in better health.

[MyNameIsTerry]

From the BBC:

‘Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has declared a "climate emergency" in her speech to the SNP conference.’

Yes, she certainly has the impediment of global warming in her speech. Every time she opens her mouth a waft of hot air escapes – you can see the heat shimmer. It was so bad the delegates in the front rows had to remove their jackets or remove themselves to escape heat stroke.:shades:

Indeed. Is this that political strategy known as bandwagon jumping? :winks:

Gove is meeting with XR shortly. The young activist is speaking to Parliament too. I expect in a few months it will all have returned to where it was :winks:

[mezzaninedoor]

Placing this here for Tony (our Tony) who I believe will find this an interesting, but sad, read due to his own bipolar and love of improv as I expect he well remembers the very talented Tony Slattery:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/apr/29/tony-slattery-had-very-happy-time-went-slightly-barmy

He looks older than his years and from his frank account he still has battles with drink or at least some extra way to go in removing it from his life. Now he ahs ended his meds that must raise some further concerns especially adding the stress of work on top of it.

I always wondered why he disappeared. He was a good actor as well as comedian and I could see him doing so well in the same way the likes of Fry, Laurie, etc have. A great shame. Hopefully he can recover enough to have his later years in better health.

Thanks Terry, I had seen a cut down of this in the printed Guardian I think. It makes for a very sad read, made sadder by 'Almost all his other celebrity chums and hangers-on vanished “when the money dried up, which was saddening. Yes, very saddening,” he says, quietly'
though with my own BiPolar im sometimes shocked by how many of my friends stick around for me. I've always liked Slatterys quirky character, the last I saw of him was a villager he played in Stephen Fry's 'Kingdom' tv series where Slattery still showed he was a talent.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Thanks Terry, I had seen a cut down of this in the printed Guardian I think. It makes for a very sad read, made sadder by 'Almost all his other celebrity chums and hangers-on vanished “when the money dried up, which was saddening. Yes, very saddening,” he says, quietly'
though with my own BiPolar im sometimes shocked by how many of my friends stick around for me. I've always liked Slatterys quirky character, the last I saw of him was a villager he played in Stephen Fry's 'Kingdom' tv series where Slattery still showed he was a talent.

I always loved that version WLIIA with the likes of Mike McShane, Ryan ?, Colin Mockery, etc. Drew Cary was good later but I preferred Clive Anderson who was very funny on HIGNFY and QI.

It might have been the film in the photo I once saw with Slattery in. Very good. Wasn't it about Stephen Fry's character inviting them all to a country house where he told them he had HIV?

It is sad about his friends. It's difficult to comment without knowing more. Given he was seen more as a substance misuser they may have be fighting against denial he was ready to admit the problems but he clearly did do that with the cocaine after his mum found it, to his credit. But these types of disorders, as I suspect you will know more from your journey through it seeing those around you, they come with addictive personalities or obsessive traits that can be mistaken and remain untreated until it reaches that point where the person has done enough to warrant them sitting in an assessment. But it does make me question whether he would have been supported more if they had known this?

And sometimes you have to walk away to look after yourself. There is that cliché about hitting rock bottom before wanting to change but it seems such a gamble when some just end up on the streets or prison in even worse states.

All credit to his partner for sticking by him through it all. Top bloke!

[mezzaninedoor]

Yasmin Alibhai-Brown makes an interesting point about where the anowflakes might be in UK politics at the moment

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/roger-scruton-toby-young-jordan-peterson/

I must admit I did think Roger Scrutons recent rally against the left, diversity & enemies of the west was a bit rich and yet apparently he had reason to be irked as he was misrepresented however he was apoplectic & suddenly all sorts came to Rogers aid

[MyNameIsTerry]

Yasmin Alibhai-Brown makes an interesting point about where the anowflakes might be in UK politics at the moment

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/roger-scruton-toby-young-jordan-peterson/

I must admit I did think Roger Scrutons recent rally against the left, diversity & enemies of the west was a bit rich and yet apparently he had reason to be irked as he was misrepresented however he was apoplectic & suddenly all sorts came to Rogers aid

That might depend on who you see as "the right"? That then means "the left" should be judged based on their more loony representatives to the far left.

It's valid in isolation. I guess it's part of the back & forth of the left vs right issue those further to each side engage in? Not sure if that's where she sits but I did notice her championing Lammy for having a go at far right reps so perhaps a healthy bit of scepticism about her affiliations. Regardless the whole binary you vs us stuff is likely why most people will read the celeb stories over the political ones. It's so negative. So much arguing who's way is right when there is no such thing and never has been. Until we all become clones we have to learn to accept the others sides right to have their views whether we agree of not.

When it's all back & forth in a good vs evil way you wonder how people live in the real world. :shrug:

And somewhere in the middle, the rest of us looking around thinking both sides are loons. :winks:

Steeler's Wheel time "snowflakes to the left of me, gammons to the right" but the original lyrics seem to work just as well :biggrin:

[mezzaninedoor]

That might depend on who you see as "the right"? That then means "the left" should be judged based on their more loony representatives to the far left.

It's valid in isolation. I guess it's part of the back & forth of the left vs right issue those further to each side engage in? Not sure if that's where she sits but I did notice her championing Lammy for having a go at far right reps so perhaps a healthy bit of scepticism about her affiliations. Regardless the whole binary you vs us stuff is likely why most people will read the celeb stories over the political ones. It's so negative. So much arguing who's way is right when there is no such thing and never has been. Until we all become clones we have to learn to accept the others sides right to have their views whether we agree of not.

When it's all back & forth in a good vs evil way you wonder how people live in the real world. :shrug:

And somewhere in the middle, the rest of us looking around thinking both sides are loons. :winks:

Steeler's Wheel time "snowflakes to the left of me, gammons to the right" but the original lyrics seem to work just as well :biggrin:


I think the point I was making really was that we know the alt-right likes to roll out the term Snowflake for any human rights protest or social responsibility concern from the Left that its interesting that there is much behaviour that might fit that on the right as well as the left.




I agree with you that its all part of the back and forth between the left and the right.

There is a spectrum of people that you may have political conversations with and I think in my head you only perhaps have a constructive dialogue with people who are a couple of steps from you oin that spectrum where as more than that your ideaology makes it harder to listen to their point of view.

e.g. I made this up !!!

Alt Right - Conservative Right - Centrist Right - Centre - Centre Left - Socialist Left - Extreme Left
Reactionary - Status Quo - Social Reform - Radical

???

eg Socialist Left can talk constructively to the Centrist Right but harder further along
Alt Right can talk to the Centre Left but harder further along to find any common ground

[MyNameIsTerry]

I think the point I was making really was that we know the alt-right likes to roll out the term Snowflake for any human rights protest or social responsibility concern from the Left that its interesting that there is much behaviour that might fit that on the right as well as the left.




I agree with you that its all part of the back and forth between the left and the right.

There is a spectrum of people that you may have political conversations with and I think in my head you only perhaps have a constructive dialogue with people who are a couple of steps from you oin that spectrum where as more than that your ideaology makes it harder to listen to their point of view.

e.g. I made this up !!!

Alt Right - Conservative Right - Centrist Right - Centre - Centre Left - Socialist Left - Extreme Left
Reactionary - Status Quo - Social Reform - Radical

???

eg Socialist Left can talk constructively to the Centrist Right but harder further along
Alt Right can talk to the Centre Left but harder further along to find any common ground

Yes, it's the nature of hypocrites. I think the thing about the snowflake label is more that those to the left are more likely to be viewed as "pure" or innocent whereas those to the right are less likely to be viewed in this way.

It's all nonsense. Just look at "gammon". There are as many middle aged white shouty men on the left as on the right.

Such terms focus on white. Tons of ethnic minorities are right wing. Asian cultures are big on making a success of yourself in a traditional manner and having a traditional family unit. They won't be targeted by this type of rhetoric in fear of racism being raised. I often wonder how this all works in countries where white people are ethnic minorities? Maybe they don't bother with it and it's a Western thing?

For instance, shedloads of Asian votes in the Midlands would have been for Brexit. I am yet to see people trashing them for it. We see "turkeys voting for Christmas" trotted out at the working class but I'm yet to see some version for ethnic minorities who don't vote on the left.

Due to the community aspect they tend to vote for candidates from their communities in locals too. My local councillor is Muslim, and he seems pretty good. He will likely attract more votes from the local Asian community on my doorstep and I don't see a problem with that really. Many vote in tribal ways a lot of the time if we understand the values of the candidates although it would be better if we didn't. I voted for him last time and have again in today's local elections as at least this young guy seems to care unlike the Labour woman who has a tendency not to even bother canvassing in this "donkey with a red rosette" country. Even if he doesn't, it keeps the other parties on their toes if they have to fight in marginals. I would like to see strongholds gone.

But I guess that's the point of diversity. Look at all the whining in the US about people not voting against Trump because they should be siding with the shining light of Clinton. The black vote tumbled after Obama so they clearly don't think it's like this but they did vote for someone they thought might prioritise their issues.

I agree with you about constructive dialogue. Maybe it's also a matter of those closer are more willing to listen and less likely to shout labels? But then doesn't that make those people more likely to be closer to the centre? I wonder if those they engage with to the farther edges of left & right are as willing? Perhaps they will engage ore even if they don't agree as they are less likely to have that big wall between them that is hatred?

[MyNameIsTerry]

I guess the question is whether he's a whistleblower to save us or an untrustworthy minister who could break the rukes whenever he feels like it? I'm sure some are championing his security breach because they don't want the Chinese involved who would otherwise be slating him for it. If breaching that meeting isn't enough to warrant a criminal offence, when we could breach the Official Secrets Acts in much smaller ways and face jail time, then I don't know what is? However they may take the view he has fallen on his sword for the country?

Not read about Grayling yet. Is that the contract to the company that had no ferries? If he fancies it I could pick up a few old barges, I could do with £50m! I'm sure Uncle Albert could captain one :yesyes:

Great news about the petition to get rid of that dodgy Labour MP. I doubt many could vote for her considering her arrogance and willingness to pervert the course of justice. I did laugh when the judge threw her appeal out, and what an amateur attempt it was (she's a solicitor! :ohmy:) :yesyes:

[MyNameIsTerry]

Gavin Williamson accused and sacked over allegedly letting the public know Mrs May was making yet another big mistake in wanting to allow Chinese tech firm Huawei into a position of potential national security compromise. Did Mr Williamson do the deed? If so, hero or villain? Was he set up? Did Sir Mark Sedwill (a high-ranking civil servant) metaphorically punch him out because he posed a ‘risk’ to the government/Mrs May? Is Mr Williamson now in the running for next leader of the Conservatives?

Exclusive: Special government advisor who put forward Huawei deal exposed...


https://fxtraderpaul.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/the-chinese-a-great-bunch-of-lads.jpg

:roflmao:

[MyNameIsTerry]

hahaha, yes I think the irony of Emma flying in for the protests was perhaps lost on her

And flies back to the US in business class. :doh: So, rather than flying with the great unwashed and reducing her carbon footprint she puts being away from us higher on her list of priorities.

Still, she can plant a few more trees :whistles:

It reminds me of those programmes years ago where celebs went to live with poor people in other countries. They broke down over how these people had to live...and then we shown flying back in bus/first class :doh:

[MyNameIsTerry]

Danny Baker :ohmy:...:mellow:...:huh:His next excuse..."I didn't even know we had a Royal family" :winks::roflmao: He really did make a monkey of himself :whistles: still I hear Gerard Batten is stepping down from UKIP leadership so he could land a job yet...:biggrin:

[MyNameIsTerry]

:biggrin: Or was he sacked for the worst excuse to wiggle out of a bad Tweet? Fancy aping such an old trope...and a big football fan too :doh:

[Scass]

His next excuse..."I didn't even know we had a Royal family" :winks::roflmao: He really did make a monkey of himself :whistles: still I hear Gerard Batten is stepping down from UKIP leadership so he could land a job yet...:biggrin:

He was shocking wasn’t he! And then being annoyed with the way the BBC dealt with it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MyNameIsTerry]

He was shocking wasn’t he! And then being annoyed with the way the BBC dealt with it! Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYep. Shockingly bad. His Twitter time line even showed he had been talking about them days before. People seem to forget deleting stuff on the net doesn't make them disappear. :doh:

[Scass]

Yep. Shockingly bad. His Twitter time line even showed he had been talking about them days before. People seem to forget deleting stuff on the net doesn't make them disappear. :doh:

Silly Danny, it’s a shame really.
Also, it’s kind of taken the attention away from Freddie Starr!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KK77]

Also, it’s kind of taken the attention away from Freddie Starr!




I forced myself to buy The Scummage today as a souvenir. It was a classic Sun headline after all :D

[Scass]

I forced myself to buy The Scummage today as a souvenir. It was a classic Sun headline after all :D

Oh god yes! I forgot about the hamster [emoji194][emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MyNameIsTerry]

Yeah, I saw about Freddie Starr. That takes me back to my childhood watching the Des O'Connor show. RIP.

[mezzaninedoor]

Danny was completely stupid, naive and lots else, BBC had to act

Shame as I like his broadcasting

[MyNameIsTerry]

If the BBC didn't they would get dragged into the row. I think Baker is just one of those types who think they can say what they want. I've enjoyed his appearances on many shows but there have been times where his remarks have seemed to cross over into something a bit too far. Then there was his appearance on IACGMOOH where he came across as nasty at times...and he seemed to play in his previous illness, something which he went as far as to wish on others in another Tweet.

[pulisa]

He's currently on tour so i expect he'll sell a few more tickets in view of the controversy...and of course he now has new material as a bonus.

[MyNameIsTerry]

He's currently on tour so i expect he'll sell a few more tickets in view of the controversy...and of course he now has new material as a bonus.Buy one get one free with any Tommy Robinson ticket :roflmao:

[pulisa]

Apparently he got a standing ovation on his tour last night..He's no fool and he'll milk the "adverse" publicity for all it's worth.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Apparently he got a standing ovation on his tour last night..He's no fool and he'll milk the "adverse" publicity for all it's worth.Did he work any victim hood into his act? What he could do is a Jade Goody style redemption but with football in his case with him being a big fan and how racism is starting to show more again? Danny tells all about how bad it is, looks ashamed and all is forgiven as he milks the reality TV circuit. But the BBC gave sacked him a few times before so they will probably just wake for the dust to settle as the next big media sensation hits e.g. James Argent loses one pound of weight in intense rehab in Thailand, Dyer talks cockney outside pie & mash shop, etc...

[MyNameIsTerry]

An interesting discussion concerning the offending Baker skit: If the offending tweet had referred to another of the extended royal family’s offspring, would it have been acceptable, amusing, thought-provoking, or even more condemned? You see, in a different context it becomes very ambiguous (I’m thinking here of how inter-related the royal family is and the implications of consanguinity – not racism). By the way, I’m not making excuses for Danny Baker – after all, he never makes excuses for me!I suspect not. Those now saying it's wrong to attack a child are doing so more because of the perception of the image. Let's face it, how many of us publicly yawn at anything from the royals? Jokes get made about famous people, and the rest of us if a picture of us makes it into the media, and there is a discussion to be had where the line is drawn to be respectful to the person, especially children. Perhaps if we take Baker's image and replace it with any other animal, or many inanimate objects, we can see it just becomes a general joke about royals, the privileged, rich people or celebs, etc? If history were different and terrapins had been used to dehumanise and abuse black/mixed raced people then Baker posting the same image but with a terrapin in it would have led to the same backlash.

[MyNameIsTerry]

The Jeremy Kyle Show was taken off air as one episode was due to be shown but one of the people who failed the lie detector test has later died:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/jeremy-kyle-show-guest-steve-dymond-failed-lie-detector-before-being-found-dead/ar-AABkSJ4?ocid=spartanntp&pfr=1

Whilst it doesn't state exactly the cause of death at this point it does hint strongly at what it likely is.

Condolences to those involved and their families. Very sad if the approaching airing adding more pressure to a situation he was struggling with.

Having watched this show in the past I've seen how Kyle acts to those who fail these tests and I hope there is a full investigation into the impacts of this show. The aftercare team might be doing great work but I've always taken issue with Kyle's sensationalism and obvious spleen venting at his guests.

[mezzaninedoor]

I guess Farage isn't going to blink and take Heidi up on this as he has a 20+ point lead over Change UK in the European polling:-

Change UK leader MP Heidi Allen has challenged Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage to a live TV debate ahead of the European elections.
In her party's election broadcast, Ms Allen said she thinks a debate is "overdue" as there is "so much at stake" in the vote on 23 May.
She said the leaders needed to "share with the British people our vision for the future".
But Mr Farage has declined, saying: "Who is she?"
The challenge was made on Monday night at a Change UK rally in Cardiff.
Ms Allen - who left the Conservatives to join the recently-formed party - said she wanted to discuss in a debate the "open, global, outward Britain that I know that we are".

[MyNameIsTerry]

The Jeremy Kyle Show was taken off air as one episode was due to be shown but one of the people who failed the lie detector test has later died:https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/jeremy-kyle-show-guest-steve-dymond-failed-lie-detector-before-being-found-dead/ar-AABkSJ4?ocid=spartanntp&pfr=1Whilst it doesn't state exactly the cause of death at this point it does hint strongly at what it likely is. Condolences to those involved and their families. Very sad if the approaching airing adding more pressure to a situation he was struggling with. Having watched this show in the past I've seen how Kyle acts to those who fail these tests and I hope there is a full investigation into the impacts of this show. The aftercare team might be doing great work but I've always taken issue with Kyle's sensationalism and obvious spleen venting at his guests.A better article here from The Guardian. Agree with what is said and scrapping it. And Westbrook's recent stint in rehab via Kyle is very questionable as she later proved what was said in the show wasn't being reflected in her time in rehab:https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/may/14/jeremy-kyle-itv-urged-to-ditch-show-after-guests-suicide

[mezzaninedoor]

The Jeremy Kyle Show was taken off air as one episode was due to be shown but one of the people who failed the lie detector test has later died:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/jeremy-kyle-show-guest-steve-dymond-failed-lie-detector-before-being-found-dead/ar-AABkSJ4?ocid=spartanntp&pfr=1

Whilst it doesn't state exactly the cause of death at this point it does hint strongly at what it likely is.

Condolences to those involved and their families. Very sad if the approaching airing adding more pressure to a situation he was struggling with.

Having watched this show in the past I've seen how Kyle acts to those who fail these tests and I hope there is a full investigation into the impacts of this show. The aftercare team might be doing great work but I've always taken issue with Kyle's sensationalism and obvious spleen venting at his guests.

I've rarely seen this show but when I have I think it has been obvious that Kyle plays up to his role as Judge & Jury
We can see people who are paraded on the programme being often those with bad social repartee and I'm sure mental health challenges
The show resembles a Zoo to me, just without cages

We get the TV we deserve sometimes and its watched by folks and thats why they make it
Its never appealed to me personally but it does follow in the tradition of the 'National Enquirer / Heat magazine' journalism where everything is open to our voyeuristic society.

I don't want to beat Jeremy Kyle when he is down and I'm sure he doesn't feel good about this episode but these shows should be a thing of the past
Better to have open public debates about the things that would arise in a Jeremy Kyle show trying to look at solutions and help for people than airing peoples foibles in public

[Hollow]

Massive online pedophile ring busted by cops

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/42108748/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/massive-online-pedophile-ring-busted-cops/#.XNslUxRKjIV

It said that so far 184 people had been arrested and investigations in some countries were continuing. Most of those detained are suspected of direct involvement in sexually abusing children.

They include teachers, police officers and scout leaders, AP reported. One Spaniard who worked at summer youth camps is suspected of abusing some 100 children over five years.

Europol director Rob Wainwright said Wednesday the ring, which communicated using an Internet forum, was "probably the largest online pedophile network in the world."

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-UdRzBcf6WYk/VfpeuJdavoI/AAAAAAAAO2U/vnYYdB_nP2k/s320/Sunday-Mirror-13-July-2014.jpg

[MyNameIsTerry]

Massive online pedophile ring busted by cops

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/42108748/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/massive-online-pedophile-ring-busted-cops/#.XNslUxRKjIV

It said that so far 184 people had been arrested and investigations in some countries were continuing. Most of those detained are suspected of direct involvement in sexually abusing children.

They include teachers, police officers and scout leaders, AP reported. One Spaniard who worked at summer youth camps is suspected of abusing some 100 children over five years.

Europol director Rob Wainwright said Wednesday the ring, which communicated using an Internet forum, was "probably the largest online pedophile network in the world."

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-UdRzBcf6WYk/VfpeuJdavoI/AAAAAAAAO2U/vnYYdB_nP2k/s320/Sunday-Mirror-13-July-2014.jpg

Great work by law enforcement. Utterly horrendous stuff.

As to the "who's", I think we need to hear more about this before we can form opinions. This was a massive investigation.

But I wouldn't be surprised to hear people at the top of society do such things, power is enticing to people like this. And attitudes towards abuse of children differed the further back you go...lets remember that our morals are purely a social construct, nature would have shown a different side to man the further back in history we go, and so you won't find a squeaky clean country even with things like this.

[MyNameIsTerry]

I guess Farage isn't going to blink and take Heidi up on this as he has a 20+ point lead over Change UK in the European polling:-

Change UK leader MP Heidi Allen has challenged Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage to a live TV debate ahead of the European elections.
In her party's election broadcast, Ms Allen said she thinks a debate is "overdue" as there is "so much at stake" in the vote on 23 May.
She said the leaders needed to "share with the British people our vision for the future".
But Mr Farage has declined, saying: "Who is she?"
The challenge was made on Monday night at a Change UK rally in Cardiff.
Ms Allen - who left the Conservatives to join the recently-formed party - said she wanted to discuss in a debate the "open, global, outward Britain that I know that we are".

Have you seen TBP's election leaflet? Typically UKIP style, all pointing out negatives but offering no solutions. We do need to keep sight in this that a vote for TBP can be a reaction to the inertia of the main parties as opposed to backing a no No Deal.

Farage is good at public speaking and even if he did attend it would just be the usual politician meandering where we come out knowing little more than when we sat down in the audience. I'm not sure Allen would get much more than is already known and she does need to remember there are a lot of unhappy people, and they won't be enticed to CHUK's stance...which is largely an unknown too.

[MyNameIsTerry]

I've rarely seen this show but when I have I think it has been obvious that Kyle plays up to his role as Judge & Jury
We can see people who are paraded on the programme being often those with bad social repartee and I'm sure mental health challenges
The show resembles a Zoo to me, just without cages

We get the TV we deserve sometimes and its watched by folks and thats why they make it
Its never appealed to me personally but it does follow in the tradition of the 'National Enquirer / Heat magazine' journalism where everything is open to our voyeuristic society.

I don't want to beat Jeremy Kyle when he is down and I'm sure he doesn't feel good about this episode but these shows should be a thing of the past
Better to have open public debates about the things that would arise in a Jeremy Kyle show trying to look at solutions and help for people than airing peoples foibles in public

Yes, if it didn't have good ratings it would have gone long ago. It's in the same sort of category as the likes of Big Brother who have become increasing more outrageous in how they set situations up and use people.

I had to laugh when I saw former mental health professionals off Love Island and BB criticising Kyle. Several ex Love Island contestants have committed suicide from the backlash they had when leaving and BB is, especially CH5, have no moral ground to stand on for anything.

I suggest Kyle buys a punch bag to take out his rage on and spares the guests. Given the backlash as high as government levels I expect this show will ge canned as ITV panic. ITV do have a habit of sticking to their guns though, just look at their defences of the likes of Colleen Noleen and how they parade the Katie Price types around between Loose Women and This Morning. I guess it will come down to how well in Kyle is?

[pulisa]

Vile Kyle could well be having to get off his backside soon to get a job...as far removed from the media as possible.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Vile Kyle could well be having to get off his backside soon to get a job...as far removed from the media as possible.ITV are now trying to erase everything about the show in damage limitation mode. Thankfully this rubbish has finally been axed but it's annoying to hear they still plan to use him for other programmes. His legacy will be this show whatever so hopefully it will just drag him down until he disappears off the circuit.

[pulisa]

I think he will carry the can for all vile reality shows now..Although I'd be happy to see him team up with that creep Jessen on that score..

JK can stick his polygraph where the sun don't shine!

[mezzaninedoor]

Massive online pedophile ring busted by cops

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/42108748/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/massive-online-pedophile-ring-busted-cops/#.XNslUxRKjIV

It said that so far 184 people had been arrested and investigations in some countries were continuing. Most of those detained are suspected of direct involvement in sexually abusing children.

They include teachers, police officers and scout leaders, AP reported. One Spaniard who worked at summer youth camps is suspected of abusing some 100 children over five years.

Europol director Rob Wainwright said Wednesday the ring, which communicated using an Internet forum, was "probably the largest online pedophile network in the world."

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-UdRzBcf6WYk/VfpeuJdavoI/AAAAAAAAO2U/vnYYdB_nP2k/s320/Sunday-Mirror-13-July-2014.jpg


We need to see more of this story in the UK news so that we can be objectively updated on it.
Its this that has been worryingly quiet in the news media here.

[mezzaninedoor]

Have you seen TBP's election leaflet? Typically UKIP style, all pointing out negatives but offering no solutions. We do need to keep sight in this that a vote for TBP can be a reaction to the inertia of the main parties as opposed to backing a no No Deal.

Farage is good at public speaking and even if he did attend it would just be the usual politician meandering where we come out knowing little more than when we sat down in the audience. I'm not sure Allen would get much more than is already known and she does need to remember there are a lot of unhappy people, and they won't be enticed to CHUK's stance...which is largely an unknown too.

Im sorry but even if you support Brexit then I worry if you are voting for Farage and the Brexit party. Farage has no class as a politician but he gets a free ride to some degree. I think a lot of the questions that have been asked of him from the BBC and the Guardian etc that he hasnt answered are legitimate and he should be held to account. Hes marched with the National Front in his youth, hes called the EU a gravy train, hes said he wants a Norway model not No Deal, hes asked for the NHS to be privatised, hes keen on keeping Tax Havens functioning , TBP has no answers and no manifesto. Theres lots more out there but for some reason people love him ?!?

[MyNameIsTerry]

I think he will carry the can for all vile reality shows now..Although I'd be happy to see him team up with that creep Jessen on that score..

JK can stick his polygraph where the sun don't shine!

Well hopefully the tv executive considering conception of a new Kyle show should "put something on the end of it"? :winks:

[MyNameIsTerry]

Im sorry but even if you support Brexit then I worry if you are voting for Farage and the Brexit party. Farage has no class as a politician but he gets a free ride to some degree. I think a lot of the questions that have been asked of him from the BBC and the Guardian etc that he hasnt answered are legitimate and he should be held to account. Hes marched with the National Front in his youth, hes called the EU a gravy train, hes said he wants a Norway model not No Deal, hes asked for the NHS to be privatised, hes keen on keeping Tax Havens functioning , TBP has no answers and no manifesto. Theres lots more out there but for some reason people love him ?!?

He's just riding the gravy train himself. Tory & Labour have created an opportunity for guys like him to come back. They haven't got on with it and people are getting sick of it all. Then there is all the "the public have changed their minds" stuff and you start to see people questioning whether it will ever happen.

Lets also remember it's a party, not Farage. Guy V said it would be madness to put Farage back in as a MEP but on the voting for my region I can't see his name.

Yes, he tells porkies...like them all. If he ever got in I don't think he would have a clue what to do, much like Boris.

What is there out for people? Over Brexit, nothing.



The Tories have May's deal and Common Market 2.0, the first is unpopular with both sides of the vote and the second isn't really Brexit at all. Which is worse? The ERP lot want a No Deal but I suspect the public are mostly against that anyway.
Labour are the "everyman" and it's hard to trust which way they would go if in power and want a fairy-tale Customs Union that doesn't exist and likely never will. Even his front bench are at odds with each other with the likes of Corbyn/Gardiner/Abbott one way, Thornberry/McDonnell another and Starmer doing the negotiating yet he is at odds with their leader on what to be negotiating for (Corbyn won't agree to the confirmatory vote, Starmer is pursuing it which May doesn't want to offer). Who is in charge of this party? And Starmer is making noises about leaving and maybe campaigning for leadership.
The LibDems want to cancel the whole thing so they are out straight away if you want Brexit.
UKIP have gone much further to the right into BNP territory and it's been proven by the later GE most of UKIP's vote was because of the EU issue.
SNP? Only if you are Scottish. They would cancel Brexit tomorrow.
Plaid. Same but Welsh. Not sure where they sit.
Green? Another cancel Brexit party.
CHUK? Too small and likely to be wiped out at the next GE anyway? Chukka is after the top job just as much as Boris.


If Brexit happens Farage will likely disappear. There will be no purpose to TBP.

I can't remember seeing Farage talking about the Norway model, I know he did as I have read about it but I'm talking about what pieces of the news I watched at the time but I can clearly remember Boris doing so. I remember thinking about it because it was mentioned. Cameron was saying the opposite, out means out.

I think you need to consider he is a means to an end. That's how I see it just as I did when he was in UKIP. I never voted for them, they had no policies I could see of for a start other than this one. Voting TBP now is about sending a message to both May & Corbyn not to frustrate this until it fizzles out. Sort it and you get your votes back. But at a GE it may be a different matter because there are much wider concerns...although from my point of view I have a concern if you vote for the manifesto it will be perverted into a "support for Brexit xyz policy".

If not TBP the only party is the Tories? Labour still won't come out so how can you vote for them? But then perhaps the Tories need a good kick up the backside?

As a Remainer you could go LibDem or Green. They want to ignore the issues and hope the worms go back in the can. How many Remainers agree with that policy unless there is enough to warrant it from the economic side? That can of worms will keep Farage & co very much alive campaigning and many feeling forgotten. So, are Remainers committed to these parties? I'm not so sure as despite them doing well in local elections the polling for the EP looks very different.

Would Remainers trust the Tories or Labour? I suspect Remainers could trust Labour as despite Corbyn's past there is enough evidence to suggest they will push for a Soft Brexit. Although some of them want to run a rigged confirmatory vote too and that should worry everyone. It would seem Remainers would find it harder to vote Tory but how many of them are concerned about Corbyn's competency? He's never ran anything, his policies go far beyond Brexit into changes business are concerned about.

If you vote Farage you obviously throw you lot in with others that do. That will include the racist element who I suspect will see UKIP are over. But if you think they are the same groups you must wonder about Labour too...lots of racist Labour types up this way and always have been (remember, up here it's the working man's party...historically white working man).

But if vote cable aren't you voting to frustrate a democratic vote? Someone might do this on the basis it's right to stop the damage but Cable & co have been anti Brexit no matter what, their rhetoric has been/is divisive and they chase the youth vote (which is pointless as Labour have that nailed) and they appear to have no plan on how to tackle what led to the referendum. They just want to shove it back in a drawer and let the world tick along. Less sure on the Greens but they come from a different angle on things anyway.

From my point of view Farage is a means to getting the Tories & Labour to panic and get on with the job rather than sitting in their comfort zones kicking the can down the road for years. The people had a say, but they stopped being represented later and politicians squabbled and voted tactically. Yes, he is advocating a No Deal but that's not my choice either so he doesn't work for me in something like a GE but then he never would as he is a protest type rather than a serious consideration to run anything. So my hope lies in a big short shock to "the system" and a waking up of the two main parties. Then we can all let Farage drift out of sight and get back on with everything else going on in the UK, much of which is hidden by all this.

Anything Farage wins will be touted as a win for No Deal. I agree with one of his candidates who said taking No Deal off the table was idiotic, it's negotiation and doing this automatically weakens your hand. It should remain symbolically at least even though you know you won't do it. How any win for Farage is moved from a No Deal to the spectrum of options, I don't know...but it will need to be somehow.

If May moves on her CU red line then her deal might be more palatable as a Soft Brexit and squeak over the line in Parliament as well as win enough of the middle ground voters. I suspect that will also end the Tories as it will be seen as a Labour win.

It would be good to get other thoughts on this, and a Remainers point of view on where to vote, at the moment as it's hard to know which way to go. There seem to be risks in all of it. All thoughts welcome, Tony.

[MyNameIsTerry]

*Jakobshavn Isbrae… Should have been a news headline but, strangely, wasn’t.The news refers to incontrovertible evidence that a massive Greenland glacier which had been melting away has suddenly stopped losing mass and is now getting bigger.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-48265217 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-48265217)

‘But now it's all change. Jakobshavn is travelling much more slowly, and its trunk has even begun to thicken and lengthen.

"It's a complete reversal in behaviour and it wasn't predicted," said Dr Anna Hogg from Leeds University and the UK Centre for Polar Observation and Modelling (CPOM).’

Well well! Hmm… this isn’t the first time the Global Warming/Climate Change theorists might have got it wrong, is it? I am mildly querulous at the way the scientist are trying to make this unpredicted behaviour fit in with their theories (according to their extensive and expensive computer ‘modelling’). Perhaps they should think shoehorns and pigeonholes…?

*‘More than likely, it was Jakobshavn that spawned the iceberg that sank the Titanic’

Terry, could ‘Jakobshavn’ be the new, metaphorical name for Brexit, I wonder…?:shades:

This bit is relevant...



It's a key channel for the export of ice that can then raise global sea levels.

So, it could be Brexit uncertainty slowing chief exports? Not to fear though as Wimbledon approaches and those bottles of Pimms come out :yesyes:

Jakobshavn as a name for Brexit? Not sure the Moggy will agree with foreign words :winks:

[mezzaninedoor]

In The Observer today its interesting that under the Tories since 2009 Mental Health nurses have fell by 6000 or 10.6%.
It states that investment has failed to match the rhetoric of getting Mental Health parity with Physical health.
Also the training needs will not match the needs for parity easily even if the Government does switch cash to Mental health.
There is also a huge postcode lottery when it comes to Mental health where in South Yorkshire £220.63 is spent per head comapred to £124.48 in Surrey.
They want to have an additionl 4000 trainees by 2024 yet thats 5 years hence.
There is also a lottery regards access to Psychiatry where some Mental health trusts have 0 Psychiatrists on offer in some locations.

[MyNameIsTerry]

In The Observer today its interesting that under the Tories since 2009 Mental Health nurses have fell by 6000 or 10.6%.
It states that investment has failed to match the rhetoric of getting Mental Health parity with Physical health.
Also the training needs will not match the needs for parity easily even if the Government does switch cash to Mental health.
There is also a huge postcode lottery when it comes to Mental health where in South Yorkshire £220.63 is spent per head comapred to £124.48 in Surrey.
They want to have an additionl 4000 trainees by 2024 yet thats 5 years hence.
There is also a lottery regards access to Psychiatry where some Mental health trusts have 0 Psychiatrists on offer in some locations.

And some CMHT's have responded by reverting to older practices such as only dealing with more complex mental conditions as opposed to being available as a staging service as NICE show them.

Isn't the postcode lottery due to local governance? There has been some issues in Wales where the Assembly have been stripping out funds from central allocated cash in the NHS, hasn't there? I've seen them criticised in Wales for something like this although this doesn't detract from the overall lack of investment by the government.

Where there are 0 psychiatrists I bet you they contract out as they need them. One MP asked in the House for the figures to be revealed on how much is spent on outsourced mental health to the private sector. I remember seeing it on Hansard ages ago.

This type of stuff is what we need to be seeing. Brexit is the greatest smokescreen preventing us all moving forward. I look forward to that being over and more focus on selecting a government that works for us with issues like this.

It's like with the police, we desperately need more cash injected there.

[MyNameIsTerry]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/morrissey-posters-axed-from-train-stations-over-stars-far-right-support/ar-AABRPb9?ocid=spartanntp



Posters promoting Morrissey's new album have been removed from train stations by Merseyrail after a customer complained it was publicising someone with "pseudo-racist" views.


Posters promoting Morrissey's new album have been removed from train stations by Merseyrail after a customer complained it was publicising someone with "pseudo-racist" views.Jack Dotchin, from Toxteth, told the Liverpool Echo that the singer's views "offend me and a lot of other people"."He's very far right these days, going on about immigrants and being pseudo-racist."It's just strange to think Merseyrail, being a public service for the people, is advertising someone with his views."



If the album is promoting hatred then I can understand this but if it purely because someone objects to Morrissey's views then we are going to have to start having a lot of empty billboards.

There are plenty of people who's products you can buy who hold objectional views, have said objectional things or even been convicted of crimes all the way up to murder in the entertainment world. Some get sanitised in many ways e.g. Jimmy Saville, more recently Michael Jackson is getting banned off the airwaves, etc.

Separating the art from the artist is a tricky business just as it is remembering everyone you probably have ever worked with have done or said something objectionable or illegal. Don't we all turned our blind eyes? Do I watch films produced by Harvey Weinstein or directed by Roman Polanski? Have I watched Leslie Grantham on TV and enjoyed the shows?

It's more likely a commercial decision to avoid negative publicity and brand damage which is very important these days but there seems to be a lot of this one man/woman complaint stuff where it would seem more appropriate to point out the illogical nature of the complaint and the likely hypocrisy of we human beings.

On Morrissey though, I never was a fan of his music. But I see in the EP elections comedian Lee Hurst, a man who has switched from left wing to right wing quite a bit, is up for a MEP. Will we be complaining if he appears on old shows on the BBC? I remember once seeing him live as he attended a Christmas do a company I worked for put on (they always booked a comedian earlier on).

[MyNameIsTerry]

Dispatches have been doing some investigating of The Jeremy Kyle Show and turned up some alarming issues that, if I'm honest, I'm just not surprised:https://metro.co.uk/2019/05/27/the-dark-secrets-of-the-jeremy-kyle-show-exposed-in-dispatches-from-encouraged-drug-taking-to-barbaric-prison-like-conditions-9696753/

[pulisa]

I can well believe it. Vulnerable people are just fodder for trash TV. That's why I hate Jessen with a vengeance.

[Hollow]

I can well believe it. Vulnerable people are just fodder for trash TV. That's why I hate Jessen with a vengeance.

<admin removed comment>

Dr. Christian Jessen: Kids should be shown porn in schools

https://www.femalefirst.co.uk/tv/news/christian-jessen-kids-shown-porn-schools-1141344.html


EXCLUSIVE: 'It's embarrassing but I wasn't going to go through with it': Dr Christian Jessen defends inviting stranger to his flat for 'drug-fuelled romp'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3167233/Dr-Christian-Jessen-defends-inviting-stranger-flat-drug-fuelled-romp.html

Christian's comments come after the Daily Star Sunday printed shirtless pictures of the television star in his underwear, as well as his manhood, allegedly sent to a man he met on gay site Grindr.


https://s14-eu5.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thesun.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F03%2Fej-composite-drchristiantweet.jpg%3Fstrip%3Dall%26amp%3Bw%3D750 %26amp%3Bh%3D500%26amp%3Bcrop%3D1&sp=9142bbd543f1979bf3ba03983894d220

[MyNameIsTerry]

To be fair to Jessen (I can feel pulisa's foot winding up for a good hard kick at the penalty spot that is my backside! :sofa::buttkick:) he didn't actually say that. He actually said "Not full-on porn, but images, for example, and then they could discuss whether that's a good thing or not." which could mean watching scenes that are shown on TV already to portray sexual abuse, rape, etc.

I assume he is trying to help kids understand that women don't necessarily enjoy being gangbanged by 20 blokes screaming how much they love it and porn imagery is changing attitudes to young boys which is dangerous for young girls.


Whilst there are limits to what you show I would have thought educating kids to view women better and commit less sexual crimes is a good thing? It's unclear what level of imagery he is suggesting and to what age groups.

[MyNameIsTerry]

I can well believe it. Vulnerable people are just fodder for trash TV. That's why I hate Jessen with a vengeance.

It does make you think about some of the things that happened on the show. He would often have guests who got drunk and smashed their rooms up. Now we have ex producers telling us they may have had a hand in that, again creating a storyline.

What bothers me the most about this is the aftercare team. How can they be complicit in a show like this and look themselves in the mirror? I can understand how sometimes you have to look the other way to try to do some good but not in a TV show. This isn't Schindler's List!

[Lola-Lee]

One word. Creepy.:mad:

[Hollow]

Former President of Jewish board of deputies calls for the killing of Jeremy Corbyn


https://www.thecanary.co/uk/news/2019/05/28/watch-the-former-board-of-deputies-president-call-for-jeremy-corbyn-to-be-sacrificed/

Speaking at the BoD meeting on 19 May, Lionel Kopelowitz said:

The word Corbyn is a very suitable one for him, after Corbyn in Hebrew is ‘korban’, which is a sacrifice. And I think we should sacrifice him for all the trouble that he has caused.

<strong>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=73&amp;v=FuegEcB7QgI

[MyNameIsTerry]

Interesting article about the importance of vitamin D:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/nutrition/top-uk-scientist-urges-people-to-take-vitamin-d-supplements/ar-AABWdqq?ocid=spartanntp

Posted here rather than in Natural Remedies as it is vague and mentions conditions on here many may be afraid of such as MS. Obviously he is mentioning it but it doesn't detract from the probability of risk so take this more as an article promoting supplements, something doctors are quite "anti".

Omega 3's have definitely helped me with mood balance since being on anti depressants and Cod Liver Oil was an old one used by mum's for ages.

[KK77]

Former President of Jewish board of deputies calls for the killing of Jeremy Corbyn


https://www.thecanary.co/uk/news/2019/05/28/watch-the-former-board-of-deputies-president-call-for-jeremy-corbyn-to-be-sacrificed/

Speaking at the BoD meeting on 19 May, Lionel Kopelowitz said:

The word Corbyn is a very suitable one for him, after Corbyn in Hebrew is ‘korban’, which is a sacrifice. And I think we should sacrifice him for all the trouble that he has caused.

<strong>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=73&amp;v=FuegEcB7QgI

I watched vid to determine whether that headline was justified. His comments were indeed highly offensive and inflammatory in the way he used the word "sacrifice". He had to be warned a couple of times that his comments were being "live-streamed", by which time he had hobbled off the podium.

Interestingly, kurban in Arabic also means "sacrifice", but the connection with Corbyn is just a play on words in order to attack him :lac:

[KK77]

Interesting article about the importance of vitamin D:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/nutrition/top-uk-scientist-urges-people-to-take-vitamin-d-supplements/ar-AABWdqq?ocid=spartanntp

Posted here rather than in Natural Remedies as it is vague and mentions conditions on here many may be afraid of such as MS. Obviously he is mentioning it but it doesn't detract from the probability of risk so take this more as an article promoting supplements, something doctors are quite "anti".

Omega 3's have definitely helped me with mood balance since being on anti depressants and Cod Liver Oil was an old one used by mum's for ages.

I found that a fairly positive article.

Do you still take Omega-3, and if so, what dose, Terry? I'm thinking of starting myself.

[pulisa]

Low Vitamin D can make chronic pain worse apparently.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Former President of Jewish board of deputies calls for the killing of Jeremy Corbyn


https://www.thecanary.co/uk/news/2019/05/28/watch-the-former-board-of-deputies-president-call-for-jeremy-corbyn-to-be-sacrificed/

Speaking at the BoD meeting on 19 May, Lionel Kopelowitz said:

The word Corbyn is a very suitable one for him, after Corbyn in Hebrew is ‘korban’, which is a sacrifice. And I think we should sacrifice him for all the trouble that he has caused.

<strong>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=73&amp;v=FuegEcB7QgI

Reading the quotes were enough to know what he was implying. Sacrifice of ones enemy isn't quite the same as of your own :winks: I bet if Corbyn said this the BOD would be up in arms all over the media screeching about anti Semitism.

Given his careful wording though I'm sure a clever lawyer could convince the police this wasn't incitement.

Utterly reprehensible. Something the BOD should remember next time they are complaining of hatred to the Jewish community when they didn't deal with this senior figure.

[MyNameIsTerry]

I found that a fairly positive article.

Do you still take Omega-3, and if so, what dose, Terry? I'm thinking of starting myself.

Yes, I still use it, KK. In the past I have stopped taking it and found my mood sink a bit and restarting sorting that out. What I have also found is I can go without now and it doesn't affect me much so I guess it's just taking some time to get my vitamin D levels up to a better place? These are the two I have used:

https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/257045449
https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/255352647

It's hard to get unopposed EPA other than in specialist products and I'm cost conscious. Since these have helped me I haven't kept trying other types but there are ones with higher levels out there.

The capsules are really poor value for money though, liquid contains far higher levels of Omega-3.

[Hollow]

I watched vid to determine whether that headline was justified. His comments were indeed highly offensive and inflammatory in the way he used the word "sacrifice". He had to be warned a couple of times that his comments were being "live-streamed", by which time he had hobbled off the podium.

Interestingly, kurban in Arabic also means "sacrifice", but the connection with Corbyn is just a play on words in order to attack him :lac:

It's very likely that Jeremy Corbyn is Jewish himself but just the wrong kind so they have no problem "sacrificing" him. Makes you wonder if JFK was also "sacrificed" for the trouble he had caused.

[mezzaninedoor]

Reading the quotes were enough to know what he was implying. Sacrifice of ones enemy isn't quite the same as of your own :winks: I bet if Corbyn said this the BOD would be up in arms all over the media screeching about anti Semitism.

Given his careful wording though I'm sure a clever lawyer could convince the police this wasn't incitement.

Utterly reprehensible. Something the BOD should remember next time they are complaining of hatred to the Jewish community when they didn't deal with this senior figure.


Been away in USA for 2 weeks
This story is bonkers. Are we seeing an escaltion or are we again talking about extremists that the Jewish community cant control and extremists that the Labour party cant control.
Most friends I have who are still Labour party members are deffo not antisemitic. Im not a Labour party member these days myself.

[mezzaninedoor]

Yesterday I think ( General Election Poll ) :-

BREX 26% LAB 22% CON 17% LIBDEM 16% GREEN 11% UKIP 4%

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/01/brexit-party-nigel-farage-lead-opinion-poll-conservatives-opinium

I know everyone knows Im completely anti Nigel Farage not anti Brexit voters but are we in danger of getting Farage as a PM, It would be an unmitigated disaster !!!

[MyNameIsTerry]

Been away in USA for 2 weeks
This story is bonkers. Are we seeing an escaltion or are we again talking about extremists that the Jewish community cant control and extremists that the Labour party cant control.
Most friends I have who are still Labour party members are deffo not antisemitic. Im not a Labour party member these days myself.

I take it you were visiting your son & family? Did you all have a nice time...and avoid political talk? :yesyes:

The BOD don't seem to be covering themselves in glory in dealing with this one, a former senior member. But it's a biased news source so I guess it depends what has happened since?

I don't really get this rabid fascination with Israel. Is it a metropolitan Labour thing? I would have thought more northern Labour members, and voters, would be a lot more interested in the basics that afford us a nice life. In a way it acts as a whipping stick for the Tories against Corbyn but also a smokescreen for Labour's incompetence in so many areas too.

Labour seem to be in the middle of the shift, the infiltrations and purges. I guess this is why this escalation is happening but it's being going on for some time with Corbyn's allies deselecting people and getting friendly faces into top positions. Was it the same when Kinnock purged them out before?

[MyNameIsTerry]

Yesterday I think ( General Election Poll ) :-

BREX 26% LAB 22% CON 17% LIBDEM 16% GREEN 11% UKIP 4%

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/01/brexit-party-nigel-farage-lead-opinion-poll-conservatives-opinium

I know everyone knows Im completely anti Nigel Farage not anti Brexit voters but are we in danger of getting Farage as a PM, It would be an unmitigated disaster !!!

It's all a bit strange. The first GE poll post EP elections shows the Lib Dems in front with TBP behind. I need to look up the 2nd one to see what that said but now we have this 3rd one showing they have slipped right back down again. :shrug:

I wouldn't think TBP could win an election but who knows in these strange times if both main parties sit about over Brexit. If they get that out of the way TBP will have nothing to exist for and dwindle just as UKIP did. But if not we could be in for some coalitions perhaps between Tory+TBP and Labour+Lib Dem+Green+SNP? Neither main party is set to win a majority and we all know May's last campaign was awful and Corbyn still couldn't beat her.

I also suspect the plan to go full Remain to recapture the Lib Dem vote is dodgy. All those northern Labour heartlands and marginals will be looking for a new home and it may be Tory or TBP. The Tories have always been very unpopular up here, we lost our industries under them, but they have been winning back as Corbyn just isn't popular up here. However would shifting to TBP for a time, possibly under Labour sort themselves out, be a home for them? Hmm...

[mezzaninedoor]

Don't get yourself too much in a tizzy, Mez. Yes, the Brexit Party is odds on favourite to win Peterborough come Thursday. But sadly, The Farage and our Brexit Party are not likely to win any General Elections - they're not that sort of party.

But you can most likely look forward to a period of Boris-the-berk as PM - for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health.

Wouldn't anyone who actually delivered Brexit in the spirit of the 2016 Referendum be an unmitigated disaster for remainers (rhetorical question from me, as usual:shades:)


I get what you are saying however I really have strong sentiments vs. Boris as he doesnt strike me as a Statesman, Strategist, Interlectual though he is painted as one in the Spectator. He seems the most self serving of all the candidates regardless of Brexit stance.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Low Vitamin D can make chronic pain worse apparently.

It has a strong relationship with calcium so I wonder if there is a link in that?

[MyNameIsTerry]

For years, I’ve been taking more than a passing interest in Vitamin D, particularly D3 (cholecalciferol) because I have vitiligo and have lost over three-quarters of my melanin (the skin pigment which is necessary for the synthesis of cholecalciferol). I have to take quite a high dose of supplemental D3 to keep my levels in the ‘normal’ range – after about three years of supplementation it seems to have stabilised. My GP reckons, as per that article, most folks in Britain don’t get enough sunshine; stressing that sitting in the blazing sunshine until turning into a cooked lobster won’t do anyone any good – regular small amounts of exposure throughout the year being the right thing to do. However, even small amounts of moderate sunshine will cook me to medium-rare in about ten minutes unless I slather myself in factor 50+ sunblock (which sort of defeats the object). Melanin protects against UV ‘cooking’ – the more you’ve got, the better UV protection you have.

There’s a heap of biochemical stuff about Vitamin D – how it behaves as a hormone and regulates all sorts of bodily processes… fascinating and vital to human health!

Does it help with your vitiligo? Yours sounds quite widespread so you must have spent a fortune on sunblock, hats and anything to cover up from the sun over the years.

I take it you have to keep an eye on your vitamin K3 intake then to avoid calcification issues?

I remember another member who said her GP wouldn't even bother testing for low vitamin D levels as her assumed all his patients were deficient since they lived in Northern Canada. Even though we have sun it might not be strong enough from what I remember reading so supplementing can be important. For us it can lead to a low mood thing too so very much one in the anti mental health issues arsenal. I just wish research was more conclusive as studies are contradictory.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Yesterday I think ( General Election Poll ) :-

BREX 26% LAB 22% CON 17% LIBDEM 16% GREEN 11% UKIP 4%

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/01/brexit-party-nigel-farage-lead-opinion-poll-conservatives-opinium

I know everyone knows Im completely anti Nigel Farage not anti Brexit voters but are we in danger of getting Farage as a PM, It would be an unmitigated disaster !!!

List of UK GE polls:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_genera l_election#2019

Labour are consistently in front with the exception (in recent months) of one where the Lib Dems pushed ahead (just after the EP elections) and one where TBP pushed ahead. TBP are nipping at the heals of the other 2 parties in the lead in the most recent three polls. The Lib Dems have been pushed back down again into their consistent polling % which suggests "the surge" is a bit of a non entity (tactical voting last minute?). The Greens show a similar story. The Tories are actually way ahead of the Lib Dems in all but that one poll and they are supposed to be collapsing!

If you look at the media reports throughout these times don't you get the impression there are big changes yet when you look at the polls this way it's not as major as they like to portray? For instance, Labour are supposed to be imploding yet their GE polling is the best and most consistent!

The only party showing a more (in recent polls) consistent uptrend is TBP!

[MyNameIsTerry]

Terry… I’m not sure if the supplemental D3 helps with my vitiligo. Perhaps coincidentally, the depigmentation seems to have ceased or slowed considerably over the past two years (but this has happened before, only to be followed by a period of rapid deterioration). So I couldn’t offer any evidence for D3 being a ‘cure’ – it certainly hasn’t reversed the process (to my bitter disappointment). Yes, I have vitiligo everywhere… and I mean everywhere! If you held a Wood’s lamp (UV light) in front of me I’d glow in the dark, like a whey-faced ghoul.

My GP says my last two Vitamin D blood tests were consistently normal, so I’ll assume dosage is correct and I’m not heading into any of the known unpleasant and deleterious side-effects.

No, I don’t spend a fortune on sunblock because, just to add fuel to the fire (as it were) I also have psoriasis, and sunblock makes it sting and itch. I use it on my face because, unless I’m going to wear a niqab, I’ve no other option than permanently staying indoors. I’m the bloke you’ll see wearing trousers, a long-sleeved shirt and wide-brimmed hat :shades: when everyone else is wandering around in shorts and tee-shirt.

You're right about conflicting advice - but this seems to be the case with just about everything these days. For every 'breakthrough' in research there seems to be as much contradictory 'evidence'. PAH!

I can sympathise with the need to cover up, although not to the extent it affects you, as I have plenty of scaring. I have issues with skin picking which have become more problematic as blood pressure meds have been added as they bring a lot of itching (daily anti histamines are needed). And I have issues with body confidence too so cover up for that. You will see me walking in a coat pretty much no matter how hot it is unless I'm in a more isolated area. At work I would be sitting in a jacket all day long but at least I could wear a suit, and I always wore suits anyway.

Vitamin D is in that suck and see category. There are studies that show it can work therefore it's worth a try in my opinion.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Slightly old news – the M4 ‘Relief Road’ project has been cancelled. This £1.5 billion ten miles of motorway was to have ‘eased’ road traffic congestion in South Wales’ Newport area.

Now, I don’t know what anyone else on NMP thinks about infrastructure planning in Britain, but after years of examining and protesting these sorts of schemes, I have to say this cancellation is good news. The destruction of rural countryside at hugely exorbitant financial cost for what always amounts to marginal wider public benefit is a bad thing.

It is quite unusual for national infrastructure projects to be dropped so late in the development stages (this one has already cost the taxpayers well over £100 million). Perhaps government is beginning to realise public money would be better spent on things which have some real, tangible benefit for most folks.

Next stop: HS2…?

I question the benefits when we lose the countryside. I'm lucky living in a city no one is that bothered about as our surrounding countryside is less at threat :winks: Although near where I live there was a plan for 240 houses to be built on a stretch of lovely land I've been walking past since I was a child and I was pleased to see the residents fight it off. More "executive housing" :lac:

A benefit of HS2 is said to be how it will bring jobs to more northern cities and shoppers because the commute will be an hour. I have problems with this. The wages are going to be substantially less than in London so I can't see anyone wanting to commute away from London...do people actually do that now to more southern regions? :shrug: I can see how those up north can use it to commute quicker into London and to shop but I just don't see it the other way around.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Against the odds, Labour held Peterborough. British politics becomes more topsy-turvy with each new day. A quick glance at the scoreboard shows there was less in the final result than most of the vox pop pundits predicted:


Labour – 10484
Brexit - 9801
Conservative – 7243
Lib Dem - 4159

The Brexit Party wasn’t the improvised explosive device to inflict damage all around, after all. Close, but no cigar this time for Nigel ‘I-can’t-believe-we-lost’ Farage. What is odd, coming hot on the heels of the Euro-election results, is the Lib Dems slid into fourth place

below
the Conservatives and took less than half the votes of The Brexit Party. Anyone like to hazard guesses as to what any of this might mean? Perhaps it’s the beginning of the fight-back from the political establishment to re-establish itself…?
:shades:


The answer to the Lib Dems lies in their vote share over the years. Whilst they are making a slight comeback they have bombed in more recent elections to be almost extinct.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterborough_(UK_Parliament_constituency)#Election _results


It looks like voter turnout is well down in Peterborough but they have swung between Labour and Tory over the years. Now they are Labour marginal with TBP nipping at their heals.

Poor Jezza, the Labour candidate even has a typical social media history that includes anti Semitism. :doh:All kind of hilarious given the reason for this by election being a criminal MP with a terrible attitude towards the law (and a solicitor no less!) and her constituents in taking their cash whilst banged up (all legal under Parliamentary rules, of course). At least Labour gave her the boot.

[MyNameIsTerry]

I live on the outskirts of a city. The countryside is a 5-10 minute cycle ride away in several directions for me :yesyes:

Nut my city isn't important so it's full of boarded up areas, some with a newer building near it with one of those "funded by the EU" signs plastered all over it whilst all around is the domain of rats & pigeons, so our surrounding countryside is less at threat. No one wants to come here! Even HS2 is going to pass through foot down firmly on the accelerator :biggrin:

I love the countryside and I really don't want to see it eroded further by more roads and housing estates. Remember the days of our youth when we could walk through so many more rural areas? Great memories. Much better than all the new brick shoeboxes or repetitive estate housing we see there now.

Yep, agree with you on HS2. It's another one great for the middle classes and the local economies won't be boosted by it. Even if they do it will be because areas increase in size and the likes of big supermarket chains and shopping villages start emerging. I would rather it kept for the wildlife.

[mezzaninedoor]

I dont live in a dormitory village but I live in a village that has trebled in size in the last 40 years.
We used to live on the edges of farm land but now you have to go a long way to get to the outskirts of the village and then you can almost see the next village.
The nearest City is 20 miles away, thats Norwich, which to be fair is a lovely City, it has problems but less than most. The nearest Town, pop. 70000 is Yarmouth and thats 3 miles away, Yarmouth is dieing though whilst Norwich is thriving.
We live in a semi-rural area and we do need to defend the rurality that we still have, we want to try and stop further building on green field sites which this Government unlocked.
We ave brown field sites that need to be exploited first, in fact in our locality we have some housing that was 95% finished then the Developer went bust and its been left empty for the last 4 years unfinished.

[MyNameIsTerry]

The BBC takes a big dump on one society's vulnerable groups, the over 75's. The government makes them responsible and in a matter of 5 years they effectively scrap it to make more profit. The government should take it back then to protect people from money grubbing execs: https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1138647/bbc-tv-license-fee-over-75-free-license-scrap-pension-credit-latest-june-2020

[mezzaninedoor]

The BBC takes a big dump on one society's vulnerable groups, the over 75's. The government makes them responsible and in a matter of 5 years they effectively scrap it to make more profit. The government should take it back then to protect people from money grubbing execs: https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1138647/bbc-tv-license-fee-over-75-free-license-scrap-pension-credit-latest-june-2020

Totally disagree with your reading of this story Terry, sorry.
The BBC has already had to deal with ZERO real term increases in funds for 7/8 years under the Tories.
The Tories have then stitched up the BBC by giving them the responsibility of free funding for over 75's, that should never be the responsibility of the BBC it should be a Government responsibility.
The BBC doesn't make huge profits, it commercially releases and sells overseas its ware which it ploughs back into Programming, thats why it has Oversight in the form currently of the BBC Trust.
I'm not seeing the BBC hasn't made missteps in recent years but as a public service broadcaster I still personally think it has a lot lot more positives than negatives. I would like it to step back from the repetitive nature of its daytime programming where it seems to make programmes on a template in a very narrow and not artistically rewarding band of output. Its tentpole work though in recent years has been fantastic, recently Years and Years, Killing Eve, Les Miserables, Gentleman Jack, all great stuff.

The right wing media were always going to spin this as a BBC failure. I think its an abject failure of Government and yes, they should provide the cash for it and not the £9billion Boris wants for his tax cuts for the 40% payers.

imho

[MyNameIsTerry]

Something often missed is how the BBC also get payed to maintain the network. Is this just from the government? Do people understand how radio teleswitching in the electricity market works? The distribution companies actually get charged by the BBC for maintaining that network as a daily signal has to be sent to keep teleswitching meters up to date. Yet all we hear is the BBC is funded by our licence and government funding.

When I saw the BBC pursuing the distribution companies further, over 5 years ago now, they were increasing the many millions which they explained kept all signalling equipment up to date but also planned improvement works. So I'm a little skeptical about this situation knowing millions are paid through this (and how many others) other route. Yes, the government pushed it onto them but I would rather the BBC push back than lazily push it out onto pensioners.

My parents are affected by this simply because they aren't eligible for pension credit because they won't qualify yet they are typical of pensioners balancing a budget to keep going.

Looking back at energy again many pensioners who can't claim a penny fall under fuel poverty. I would be fine with the BBC means testing but falling back on pension credit is lazy and hits a lot of less well of folk too.

I wonder if I could find the figures for the contracts with the BBC?

I realise those on "the other side" will spin it but I'm not interested in that and I'm looking at two people who will get hit with an extra bill.

[MyNameIsTerry]

The BBC doesn't make huge profits, it commercially releases and sells overseas its ware which it ploughs back into Programming, thats why it has Oversight in the form currently of the BBC Trust.

I have an issue with this though. The licence fee should only be a mechanism to pay for the network itself. Anything beyond that is up to the channel to make money.

Does the licence fee cover it? Plus government funding? Plus all the other pay outs like the one I mentioned above.

On your last point, did you see Jeremy Hunt saying he would drop taxes to "supercharge" the economy? But would it bring in enough to cover what it needs to pay for now and more?

Corporations legally dodging tax is very unpopular with the public for obvious reasons. He wants to reduce it to the ROI level which the EU are taking action against (well, it's helps Macron divert attention away from his own woes and makes him look like EU president material :whistles:). The EU are not going to be happy with a race to the bottom in tax so we may face some backlash to that from Brussels, even if ROI will look at their feet.

On a slightly better note Leadsom proposes to take people out of the negotiation equation and secure their rights. As does Gove. That's at least something for the poor sods stuck in the middle of these idiots.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Retracted free TV licences for the over-75s is another can of socio-political worms. For a start off, since the mid 2000s the TV licence has been categorised as a tax on owning and using a television receiver because it’s compulsory, regardless of whether the TV is used for watching solely commercial stations via antennae, cable and satellite or inclusively of BBC channels. It is iniquitous (because of the obscure ways in which this ‘TV Tax’ is collected, enforced and divided up amongst the various BBC departments, subsidiary companies, sub-contractors and other ‘unaccountability’). The fee is jealously guarded by the BBC – no other corporation has the level of autonomy the BBC exercises over money raised from direct public taxation, and it goes to extraordinary lengths to protect its funding, including excessive use of fines and even imprisonment for licence non-compliance. The BBC defends its monopoly of ‘national broadcaster’ and subsequent fiscal arrangements by declaring itself unique and impartial. Both of these claims are becoming difficult to sustain in the public’s opinion.

OK, so the free licence is abolished and those over-75s who’ve enjoyed freedom from this burdensome taxation now find a demand for payment shoved through their letterboxes. How many are going to pay, do you think? Some won’t even know what such a demand means, while others are going to ignore it in the hope it’ll ‘go away’ or that the TV licensing people can whistle for the money. I expect a certain number will get away with non-payment. But others may face legal action…. unpleasant!


My own opinion? I no longer believe the TV licence fee is ‘value-for-money’. There’s very little difference in the quality of general programming between the BBC and its commercial competitors, and I see that the BBC has itself become far more commercial than it once was. Folks often say ‘the BBC is a national treasure’. It might have been, once upon a time, but now it cannot in all honesty occupy that moral high ground. Abolish the licence altogether...?:yesyes:


NB: Eric-the-Idle said (sarcastically) Britain now has so many ‘national treasures’ it’s become "National Treasure Island":roflmao:

If there were Brexit counting the BBC in such a way would make you an imperialist longing for the old days of empire :winks:

For me, it's another set of channels. Good shows, bad shows. They stand out for wildlife and their new reporting is better than most. However, that doesn't mean they are an untouchable entity and should compete with the rest. Only the network itself is where tax should be applied. Does it?

What do the other broadcasters pay for the use of the network? Why is it a % of the vulnerable will be expected to pay this, a bunfight between government and the BBC, yet large greedy corporations may not? Have their network charges been increased to help cover the shortfall? If not, why not? They can pass the cost onto those who want to advertise on their channels. Wouldn't this "socialise" the costs more as the most it then hits the public is over a large % either through content change or increased pricing of their products?

Other privatised industries don't work so well as a comparison e.g. electricity where the network charges are paid for you out of what you pay for your bill. There are other industries where we pay for services we may not use such as rail which is supported via taxation whether you use it or not. Roads the same. BT charge you for network maintenance even if you don't use their service itself and you can opt not to have a line. This can be said for the BBC where you can opt not to have TV.

However I question this because I'm cynical of it. They only started paying in 2018 with full payment taking over in 2020. Along pops a survey and they pull it as much as they can get away with. If they cancelled it all they would be under more pressure due to crossing over into what can be seen as those in potential poverty. Also, their survey wouldn't support pulling it altogether as only 15% support scrapping all concessions. With 37% supporting reform they can try this. Interestingly 48% said they were in favour of continuation of the concessions. It feels like the BBC never planned on taking this on if they could avoid it. This doesn't absolve government failure but I'm more interested in the financial impacts to over 75's than I am whether the content suffers.

Hopefully this will be resolved through propping up of those who are not on Pension Credit, but I can see the government pointing the finger at the BBC whilst they do nothing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-48583487


This then is a compromise; around a third of the cost will be borne by the BBC and two thirds passed on to 'wealthier' pensioners. The elderly are by far the biggest consumers of the BBC's output, the average age of BBC TV's audience is now over 62, the question is how far younger licence fee payers should subsidise these older viewers. As consumption of traditional TV by younger viewers continues to drop there could well be questions about why they are being expected to pay for a service that the heaviest users get for free.

Hang on, I thought the youthquake was for more left leaning? But when it comes to media it's more right wing?

My parents certainly aren't wealthy. Typical working class of their generation with kids, several jobs (2 part time in my mum's case) and they aren't eligible for Pension Credit so they get lumped into the same bracket as truly rich pensioners. That's a lurch from one end to the other and will hurt the working classes.

Will they start taking pensioners to court? That comes with public backlash.

AgeUK made some interesting points about how when you are old the TV might be your only companion. At a time when they are trying to combat loneliness in the elderly.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Ah!… never mind the quality, feel the width… Terry, you wouldn’t be implying aged folks will watch any old tosh from the BBC as long as they don’t have to pay for it, would you?:winks: (Actually, the answer to my snidey question is answered in part by your concluding comment on AgeUK’s perspective.)

You can see where an element of resentment creeps in here. We’re back to ‘haves’ and ‘have-nots’ and who gets most benefit from the ‘TV Tax’, and who ‘deserves’ concessions and who doesn’t – a socio-political minefield!.

Nah, just that you are less likely to moan about not having programmes aimed at your demographic, or when they are removed, because you will just change channel. Less likely to go all faux outage on social media about it.

Yes, I've been reading comments on other forums about this and it does come back to division. The polling comes in at 52/48 amusingly and a lot of the usual supporters of slashing pensioners rights in favour of the youth (because pensioners are all well off :doh:) seems to froth out.

I see an amusing statistic that Gary Lineker's salary could fund 11k licences. Regardless of age slashing that one would be beneficial :yesyes:

Another take I noted was the entitlement that those paying for the services should be dictating where they were deployed. Another "at odds" view of many supposed left leaning people I've seen who don't realise they are displaying a more typical Tory trait they are always complaining about.

[mezzaninedoor]

My parents are definitely not wealthy but they do not get pension credit.
I think the TV licence consession for OAP's is a good one, I just dont think our public service broadcaster should fund it.
Maybe I have rose tinted specs on but I think the UK culture is much the better for us having a public service broadcaster like the BBC.
Im not sure that the TV licence has to be good value for money, though I think compared with Sky, Virgin etc I think it demonstrably is. Maybe vs. Netflix / Amazon Prime it isn't.
This sort of consession is a socio-political minefield and the young do feel that they are struggling to have stuff that prior generations have had as well so its very complex to know what the right answers are.

[MyNameIsTerry]

My parents are definitely not wealthy but they do not get pension credit.
I think the TV licence consession for OAP's is a good one, I just dont think our public service broadcaster should fund it.
Maybe I have rose tinted specs on but I think the UK culture is much the better for us having a public service broadcaster like the BBC.
Im not sure that the TV licence has to be good value for money, though I think compared with Sky, Virgin etc I think it demonstrably is. Maybe vs. Netflix / Amazon Prime it isn't.
This sort of consession is a socio-political minefield and the young do feel that they are struggling to have stuff that prior generations have had as well so its very complex to know what the right answers are.

It should be about the network, not the content. You need a licence to watch TV, not to watch the BBC. Anything over costs to maintain it should be coming from other revenue streams in my opinion. I'm not sure how much does and doesn't but since they have such a huge content level and all the costs that go with it I would be suspecting the licence fee goes on content too. These days that's contentious as it beings in value for money. Poor performance isn't challenging because it's a tax.

[mezzaninedoor]

It should be about the network, not the content. You need a licence to watch TV, not to watch the BBC. Anything over costs to maintain it should be coming from other revenue streams in my opinion. I'm not sure how much does and doesn't but since they have such a huge content level and all the costs that go with it I would be suspecting the licence fee goes on content too. These days that's contentious as it beings in value for money. Poor performance isn't challenging because it's a tax.

Im pretty sure that most of the licence fee goes on content Terry.
I thought that was the point of having a public service broadcaster that in theory isn't swayed by only ratings.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Im pretty sure that most of the licence fee goes on content Terry.
I thought that was the point of having a public service broadcaster that in theory isn't swayed by only ratings.

Those that don't watch the BBC a lot would be right to question why they get money for little service then.

They are swayed by ratings though. They aren't going to produce programmes no one watches or run on a series when the ratings are falling.

There are elements of being a public broadcaster that you can argue are for the good of the country. News (balance, unbiased...good luck on that one), education, etc. EastEnders? No so much.

So just how much of the programming is different to other channels?

[MyNameIsTerry]

Liu Xiaoming, China’s British Ambassador says:

‘….excluding Huawei from Britain's 5G network "sends a very bad signal.”’

:DOK everyone, make up your own jokes (it’s too easy!). But seriously, this is more threatening behaviour from China.

Freddie Starr’s coffin had the Elvis Presley song title Return To Sender engraved upon it. :roflmao:

Change UK changes its name again! It’s now going to be known as ‘Guess Who?’, to avoid any problems arising from a) calling themselves something they’re not, and b) confusing themselves… (Like erstwhile CHUK party member Chuka Umunna has by deserting two political parties in rapid succession – it’s fair made his head spin! It’s just a matter of time before he joins The Brexit Party – the only party truly for leavers of all persuasions.:winks:)

In Starr's case it was more a case of Payee Unknown.

CHUK are done, they will only slide into oblivion. They might as well get on their bellies and get it over with. Some already are.

Umunna is a typical opportunist politician. A couple of years ago he was stating on social media he would never trust the Lib Dems because they firmly back Remain :roflmao: The guy was too scared to go up against Corbyn for leadership and is drifting around looking for the job elsewhere. Other than gaining one seat, for now, I don't see what they gain from taking him on as he is a bit of a toxic character these days.

Do Huawei matter? Surely post Brexit we will be returning to cups & string? :winks:

[mezzaninedoor]

Those that don't watch the BBC a lot would be right to question why they get money for little service then.

They are swayed by ratings though. They aren't going to produce programmes no one watches or run on a series when the ratings are falling.

There are elements of being a public broadcaster that you can argue are for the good of the country. News (balance, unbiased...good luck on that one), education, etc. EastEnders? No so much.

So just how much of the programming is different to other channels?

Personally feel that BBC & Channel 4 are the bravest broadcasters content wise in the UK.
I didn't say not swayed by ratings I said in theory isn't swayed by ratings.
The BBC should be, I agree, still held to the Reithian principles of Educate, Entertain & Inform.

Unique things that I really treasure about the BBC are many including BBC4, BBC6, BBC Radio 4 & BBC Radio 3
I must admit that BBC News has lost its way a bit recently and needs to get back to being the impartial filter for us all again

I could quite happily do without the Daytime templated BBC content where we get endless Antique shows in various formats and makeover shows, there must be better Daytime content than that

I, though Im sure many disagree, believe that there is a quality threshold with BBC drama that means we get quality UK drama from the BBC thats unique like Years and Years, Gentleman Jack, Les Mis etc etc

[mezzaninedoor]

Boris tonight trotted out something else that he hadnt fully understood:-

Boris Johnson was challenged by Rory Stewart to detail what tariffs (taxes on imports) would be charged on agricultural goods crossing the border.


He said there would be "no tariffs or quotas" because "what we want to do is get a standstill in our current arrangements under GATT 24" until a free trade deal had been negotiated.


GATT 24 is an article of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade. Supporters of a no-deal Brexit say it would allow the UK to continue to trade with the EU without tariffs for up to 10 years, while the two sides were negotiating a permanent future trade agreement.


But you can't use it in this way - a trade agreement has to be agreed in principle before Article 24 can be used.


It also needs the two sides to agree - the UK can't just impose it on the EU.

[MyNameIsTerry]

It would have to be agreed before A50 ends. Therefore it takes us back to the WA and agreeing to terms favourable to the EU or they won't commit to trade deals anyway. Remember, the EU won't agree to even talk without the WA yet the WA itself outlines future trade agreements in principle (and more).

However, how do we know anything Boris says will be anything like it will be once PM? For all we know he could push a CU and that removes GATT24 unless it's a new form of CU in which case GATT24 comes into play. So, is he advocating Corbyn's McGuffin?

So, doesn't he understand it? Or is it a matter we don't understand what his plans are? He could unite Parliament behind a CU deal, since he's a popular Tory and the CU was popular across the House, and stitch up voters...who I don't think he's gives a toss about. I also doubt he cares about bringing down the Tories as his career is all important and will continue regardless as we are seeing already. The House will happily sign us up to a CU and brush as much of Leave under the carpet as possible.

My take? I will listen to them once we have a PM. Until then it's as valid as Corbyn and his McGuffin. They can trot out any old BS as it's all grandstanding to get the job. Only the politically naïve are going to take any of this without a border busting lorry load of salt.

May's WA has clauses to cover future relationship. That would be why the EU was said to have granted a transition period yet that's more that GATT24 allowed for it and we both agreed to it. But I find it interesting that A50 has wording to suggest a future relationship too and so it will come down to the detail in GATT24 about the minimum requirements to fulfil such an agreement.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Here is GATT24:


https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/region_e/region_art24_e.htm


Note that you cannot opt for a worse trade deal in this process unless by two thirds majority.

Looking at the clauses it would appear what May was negotiating would fit this. No Deal certainly can't other than to agree to a plan and schedule. At that point the transition period kicks in whilst you agree the new agreement.

So, what constitutes a plan? Bare in mind the WA, as published by Parliament on the legislation site, contains no information about what it will achieve other than for us to sit down and have some chats about something. So, does that constitute a plan even though it has nothing in it? Therefore can you argue you can set up a meeting schedule and still leave under A50 whilst preserving this future agreement? Yes.

Stewart wants to know actual tariff info but that constitutes the finer detail doesn't it? Had May agreed to that? Therefore, subject to interpretation by "the lawyers" as Ian Hislop would drawl, he could have passed the minimum bar there.

[mezzaninedoor]

Here is GATT24:


https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/region_e/region_art24_e.htm


Note that you cannot opt for a worse trade deal in this process unless by two thirds majority.

Looking at the clauses it would appear what May was negotiating would fit this. No Deal certainly can't other than to agree to a plan and schedule. At that point the transition period kicks in whilst you agree the new agreement.

So, what constitutes a plan? Bare in mind the WA, as published by Parliament on the legislation site, contains no information about what it will achieve other than for us to sit down and have some chats about something. So, does that constitute a plan even though it has nothing in it? Therefore can you argue you can set up a meeting schedule and still leave under A50 whilst preserving this future agreement? Yes.

Stewart wants to know actual tariff info but that constitutes the finer detail doesn't it? Had May agreed to that? Therefore, subject to interpretation by "the lawyers" as Ian Hislop would drawl, he could have passed the minimum bar there.



Youre spot on Terry.
And I get that none of them are PMs yet.
They all worry me to some degree but Boris general dishonesty worries me the most.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Another MP facing a by-election due to public petition:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/tory-mp-chris-davies-removed-and-by-election-triggered-after-losing-recall-petition-over-faked-invoices/ar-AADdqys?ocid=spartanntp

:yesyes:

If I did this I would have been sacked so I'm glad we are seeing the people having a voice in what should be an automatic by-election for disgrace in a public office.

[MyNameIsTerry]

This issue is currently raging in the US over abortion but I had no idea we had our own problems:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/20/lloyds-pharmacy-apologises-to-woman-refused-emergency-contraception

And an interesting point is how the pharmacist avoided citing the real issue, likely religious beliefs?

https://rightsinfo.org/is-it-legal-for-a-pharmacist-to-refuse-to-give-you-the-morning-after-pill-on-religious-or-moral-grounds/



In a statement, LloydsPharmacy said that it was investigating the incident to “better understand” what happened to Siani.A spokesperson said that they “adhere to the GPhC guidelines which allow pharmacists to refuse to dispense medication that goes against their personal beliefs if there is adequate alternative care available for the patient.“As part of our own guidance, we encourage our pharmacists to use their professional judgement, but they must always put the patient first. In this case, the pharmacist was a locum pharmacist, not a full time employee. However, we will be communicating to our colleagues to remind them of this guidance.

AND



The General Pharmaceutical Council’s (GPhC) guidelines state that the religion, personal values or beliefs of pharmacy professionals may influence “day-to-day practice, particularly whether they feel able to provide certain services”.This includes contraception, fertility medicines, hormonal therapies, mental health and well-being, substance misuse and sexual health.However, the guidelines also advise pharmacists to “respect cultural differences” and make sure every person is treated fairly whatever their personal views.It also states that pharmacists should “recognise their own values and beliefs but not impose them on other people” and that they should “take responsibility for ensuring that person-centred care is not compromised because of personal values and beliefs”.

Medical and religious shouldn't collide. If your religion means you cannot administer legal treatments acceptable to the patient then you shouldn't be in the job. The law trumps religion.

[mezzaninedoor]

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1141748383184556033?s=09

[MyNameIsTerry]

The Jeremy Kyle Show saga continues:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/the-jeremy-kyle-show-lie-detector-tests-are-wrong-one-third-of-the-time-mps-hear/ar-AADogaw?ocid=spartanntp

So, caring Graham looked the other way or isn't quite the man many thought?



Graham Stanier, Director of Aftercare, The Jeremy Kyle Show, said: “Some people will fail the test yet be telling the truth. They are told that before taking the test. I’m naive about the figures for accuracy.”

AND



Presented with a clip of Kyle telling a lie detector contestant definitively “You lied”, Mr Stanier said: “That’s the presenter’s style. I’m responsible for me


"I can’t be responsible for the presenter’s behaviour. It's not the language I would use.”.

That doesn't seem very ethical to me. I wonder where the money comes from into that service?

Anyone who has seen this show will know Kyle himself doesn't reflect this failure rate in his dealing with guests. He portrays them to be far more accurate (doesn't he say a certain very high figure?) and takes them as gospel when using them in the show.

I wonder how many relationships he has wrecked with this BS?

I do believe Graham's membership should be considered too since this show may contradict UKCP's Code of Ethics.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Aw how cute is this?

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/golden-retriever-trained-to-bring-tissues-to-grieving-families-at-funeral-home-a4170796.html

A dog that brings you tissues at a funeral! :woof

[MyNameIsTerry]

The Peterborough by-election rears it's head yet again https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1146638/peterborough-by-election-illegal-family-voting-polling-station-brexit-party/amp

[MyNameIsTerry]

I find Extinction Rebellion a strange lot. Here they are at Glastonbury asking people to cut down on single use plastics:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jun/27/extinction-rebellion-highlight-climate-emergency-at-glastonbury

Yet they don't seem to have an issue with the massive carbon footprint of this event in terms of electricity used, clean up operations and all the travelling??? :doh:

And now they are onto Wimbledon, again for single use plastics. An event where everyone is travelling and all the tennis players are likely jetting her with their people and then will head off to the next venue somewhere else courtesy of a highly polluting aeroplane. :doh:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/wimbledon-2019-extinction-rebellion-to-campaign-at-tournament-against-unnecessary-singleuse-plastics-a4178536.html

:shrug:

[MyNameIsTerry]

That’s just the former Andrex puppy in late middle age taking the only job he can get.

:biggrin:

Got to top up that pension some how. :yesyes:

[MyNameIsTerry]

New ‘Carry On’ films are going to be made, the first being Carry On Doctors.

"Now, as the series carries on into the 21st Century, Carry On Doctors returns to hospital with a cast crammed full of beloved comedy actors and a hilarious script that will have you in stitches! With a kiss to the past and a firm finger on the pulse, it's time to Carry On. Again," says ‘Carry On…’ historian Robert Ross (via the BBC).

Hmmm! The last time the ‘Carry On’ brand was resurrected was in 1992 – Carry On Columbus… And to be honest it would have to be a dire film indeed to come out worse than that:weep: We shall see….:unsure:

My top five ‘Carry Ons’ :yesyes::

Carry On Up The Khyber
Carry On Cruising
Carry On Screaming
Carry On Cabby
Carry On Sergeant

(Not a Barbara Windsor in sight….)

Hmm...next up Love Thy Neighbour? :ohmy:

The BBC won't touch older sit coms because of the backlash they fear they will receive. Probably mostly online and by people who often don't see many of them were taking the pee out of the protagonists and showing them up.

Can I see them resurrecting the Carry On format? No chance! Forget the poor resurrection last time, it had already had it's day and comedy had moved on, but what about the backlash from those who would take offence? So, it would have to be watered down or changed therefore no longer being a Carry On?

And aren't CH5 resurrecting All Creatures Great And Small?

[MyNameIsTerry]

How about Curry And Chips? Spike Milligan doing his best adumbrate personification. The BBC programming commissioners would call the police if anything like that turned up as a submission these days!

Just returning to the 'Carry On' films; I thought NMP's very own JoJo was directing one, to be called Carrion Crowing. But apparently, the star turned out to be the wrong type of actor, so it morphed into Crowz N The Hood:D

Don't think I've seen that, not seen much of Milligan's work to be honest. Probably a racist title now on Twitter or at least cultural appropriation :winks:

Carrion Crowing, JoJo's crow sits on here head at command, ooh er :ohmy::blush:

I'm surprised not to have heard Carry On Brexit, plenty of sequels in that one :biggrin: You wouldn't even need to make the characters goofy, we already have so many ready made candidates :yesyes:

[MyNameIsTerry]

I can only just remember seeing bits of it as a child. I've looked it up to find that it only had one six episode series (made by London Weekend Television - now defunct, like all the other regional ITV channels). Yes, it was all that you guessed!

Spike Milligan, as with most 'brilliant' comedians was only 'brilliant' in a small part of his output - the rest of the time he was just plain silly and unfunny (my wife couldn't/can't stand the bloke at all!).

I thought we were all acting in Carry On Brexit - and like a Shakespearean tragedy, we won't see how the jokes all fit together until the very end (if ever!):ohmy:

I agree with your wife.

I don't know about you but I can't wait for the series to kick off:

Carry On Brussels
Carry On Commissioner
Carry On Centralising
Carry On Sneering
Carry On Corruption (might have to be split into more than one film to make it fit :whistles:)
Carry On Leaving (said to span a number of them)

There is a backlash one also, Carry On B0ll0cks.

Finally a look back version, What A Carry On. :yesyes:

[Phill2]

The referen e to the neighbour would have to be changed to be politically correct.:weep:

[MyNameIsTerry]

You never know with the BBC, it might sneak through. For instance, for some years the naughty BBC Wimbledon cameramen have been banned from their old tricks of filming the female athletes in the breaks sitting head on. Now we even have additional laws to cover upskirting and the first thing many asked was about this issue. Wimbledon is on now and the cameramen are keeping to the respectful angles...yet they were totally the opposite when the BBC covered the Bournemouth tournament where they were bad to the old ways. No wonder the women all need a big towel for their breaks :whistles:

http://yoursmiles.org/tsmile/sport/t31100.gif (http://yoursmiles.org/t-sport.php?page=3)http://yoursmiles.org/tsmile/sport/t31106.gif (http://yoursmiles.org/t-sport.php?page=3):ohmy::blush:

[mezzaninedoor]

New ‘Carry On’ films are going to be made, the first being Carry On Doctors.

"Now, as the series carries on into the 21st Century, Carry On Doctors returns to hospital with a cast crammed full of beloved comedy actors and a hilarious script that will have you in stitches! With a kiss to the past and a firm finger on the pulse, it's time to Carry On. Again," says ‘Carry On…’ historian Robert Ross (via the BBC).

Hmmm! The last time the ‘Carry On’ brand was resurrected was in 1992 – Carry On Columbus… And to be honest it would have to be a dire film indeed to come out worse than that:weep: We shall see….:unsure:

My top five ‘Carry Ons’ :yesyes::

Carry On Up The Khyber
Carry On Cruising
Carry On Screaming
Carry On Cabby
Carry On Sergeant

(Not a Barbara Windsor in sight….)

Wasn't there a script for a Carry on London a few years back that was touted to be made?

[MyNameIsTerry]

I believe there's a boat-load of EU subsidy cash available for this:shades:

Is that the boat that travels around expecting you to tip wheelbarrows of cash to pay a "membership fee" into it as it passes your country...well, for some of us anyway :whistles:

[MyNameIsTerry]

Was that going to be the one where London was severed from the rest of Britain, towed out into the English Channel to near the French coast and the jolly old cockneys lived a life of cosmopolitan, continental bliss forever after?:winks:And to highlight what these lucky Londoners had escaped from, old opening clips from Carry On Cleo - showing Hengist Pod and wife Senna living in a cave - would represent modern day Britain:roflmao::ohmy:Causing cabbies to bring in a new policy of "we darnt go sarf o the M 25" :biggrin:

[MyNameIsTerry]

Hunt wants to bring back fox hunting. What a vile idiot. Ok, if it's about heritage then let's also bring back a certain gunpowder event, the stocks and shoving idiots like Hunt in the Tower of London :yesyes:...witches should beware too https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-hunt-fox-hunting-ban-repeal-tories-leadership-countryside-a8987406.html

[mezzaninedoor]

Hunt wants to bring back fox hunting. What a vile idiot. Ok, if it's about heritage then let's also bring back a certain gunpowder event, the stocks and shoving idiots like Hunt in the Tower of London :yesyes:...witches should beware too https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-hunt-fox-hunting-ban-repeal-tories-leadership-countryside-a8987406.html

Odious Tories showing their true selves

[MyNameIsTerry]

Leaving aside the animal abuse, for which I hope he gets a spell in prison, I couldn't help but click on this headline. Has this guy been watching Monty Python and the Holy Grail? https://www.devonlive.com/news/uk-world-news/police-arrest-meth-fuelled-trained-3028831

[MyNameIsTerry]

Odious Tories showing their true selves

Probably try to pull in those last 5 votes. Playing to any crowd who will listen.

It sends a wider message though when it comes to the rest of us as fox hunting is a very niche (sick) hobby. I was surprised, and very disappointed, to see May put it in her last manifesto.

It will give Widdecombe something to grab onto as she has been well against it through her career.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Nominative determinism:huh:???:shades:

Hmm...I wonder if he was drawn to gynaecology too given what the doctors & nurses call him :winks:

[MyNameIsTerry]

Nominative determinism:huh:???:shades:

Didn't an ex senior member of the Board of Deputies refer to Corbyn as a sacrifice due to a similarity with his name? That one could be relevant to your theory too :biggrin:

[MyNameIsTerry]

Fox hunting is obviously about toffs having a good time. I don't recall them rat hunting with a pack of sausage dogs :biggrin:

There is an issue at the moment that these idiots are skirting around the law with these "exercises". That needs stopping too.

Yes, Brexit seems to have calmed down and it's now about Hunt & Boris...and occasionally Jezza gets another bashing (usually about anti Semitism). It just further proves what we all know - that the press jump from one sensation to another to get clicks. FrankT's reaction, on his other threads, is what they aim to achieve as well as cash. It's another reason why we all seem so bat shit crazy these days panicking over everything whereas previous generations were more stoic...the fact 24 hour news tries to tell us we are panicking. Back in the days of the good 'ole chip paper, radio and a few TV channels we had wars, stand offs, major rioting and we just went and made a pot of tea (yes, back in the days of the teapot!!!) :biggrin:

[MyNameIsTerry]

Does this seem a very minor way to reduce pollution compared to the amount of oil & elec they no doubt use? How big are these poos? :ohmy: Should we start banning big human poos too? :biggrin: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-48879749

[Phill2]

My money's on Boris.
He seems like a fun guy.
Probably get on well with the Don. :yesyes:

[MyNameIsTerry]

My money's on Boris.
He seems like a fun guy.
Probably get on well with the Don. :yesyes:

He's been well ahead with MP votes and member votes from the start. You will certainly get some mad headlines from him.

Trump has endorsed him. They will get on well. It might even serve us in getting a trade deal...as long as we keep a reign on what Boris is willing to trade as he will sell anything out.

[MyNameIsTerry]

It’s not the individual size but the sheer quantity which causes the problem (bulked up by all those chips and takeaway stuff they're fed). If your main industry is tourism, I expect the grockles aren’t too keen paddling and swimming in gull faeces… Of course, to keep down the effluent pollution they could always ban the tourists:ohmy:

I'm heading onto Dragon's Den with my new range of solutions for this. Biodegradable nappies for gulls, pooper scooper attachments for snorkels, etc. :yesyes:

I guess with them being a water company they could always dump a load of chemicals in the water to break the gull poo up :winks:

[MyNameIsTerry]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/melania-trump-wooden-statue-branded-disgrace-that-looks-more-like-smurfette/ar-AADUOv2?ocid=spartannt (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/melania-trump-wooden-statue-branded-disgrace-that-looks-more-like-smurfette/ar-AADUOv2?ocid=spartanntp)

Melania Trump wooden statue branded 'disgrace' that 'looks more like Smurfette'

:roflmao:

Doesn't he just sound like he has a chip on his shoulder...



"Let's face it," he says in a short film being shown as part of the exhibition, "she owns half of America while I have nothing."

[Hollow]

Madhouse Britain:


https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-OMw8j5CIOKo/XSG3Z-F3GgI/AAAAAAAAr3I/mCMflgvW6ZYOvkuVtLXgbupZI-pVS-LJwCLcBGAs/s640/London%2Bgay%2Bpride.jpg

[MyNameIsTerry]

Madhouse Britain:


https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-OMw8j5CIOKo/XSG3Z-F3GgI/AAAAAAAAr3I/mCMflgvW6ZYOvkuVtLXgbupZI-pVS-LJwCLcBGAs/s640/London%2Bgay%2Bpride.jpg

Good on them for tackling bigotry in their communities just as Pride has for the rest. :yesyes:

Good that they raise the hysteria that is the Birmingham protests (sign on the edge of the picture) too. Lets not have religion govern education, it's a very slippery slope.

[Phill2]

Looks like parliament on a day out :winks:

[mezzaninedoor]

Good on them for tackling bigotry in their communities just as Pride has for the rest. :yesyes:

Good that they raise the hysteria that is the Birmingham protests (sign on the edge of the picture) too. Lets not have religion govern education, it's a very slippery slope.

Hear, Hear !!!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48946070 - Yesterdays Panorama was very strong in its allegations against the Labour leadership and its interference in the Labour Disputes team over anti-semitism. I don't believe that Jeremy Corbyn is an anti-semite but he definitely is not tackling anti-semitism with every breathe in his body like he has said. Labour really needs to get a grip of this issue that has been rumbling on for 3 years now and deal unequivocably with cases. Corbyn needs to make a speech that underlines that he believes that Israel has a right to exist and that he believes in a 2 state solution. This is a sore that is festering. It is however interesting that there are anti-semites that get away with that and Islamaphobia within the Tory party whilst the heat is on Labour for this issue.

Voting Intentions: The Boris Bounce !!! :- Today’s YouGov poll shows that, for the first time ever, Labour has fallen into fourth place with just 18% of the vote. The Conservative’s lead on 24%, with the Brexit party on 23%, the Lib Dems on 20%, and the Green’s on 9%.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Looks like parliament on a day out :winks:

:biggrin: I think ours would need some adult babies in there for that :winks:

[MyNameIsTerry]

Hear, Hear !!!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48946070 - Yesterdays Panorama was very strong in its allegations against the Labour leadership and its interference in the Labour Disputes team over anti-semitism. I don't believe that Jeremy Corbyn is an anti-semite but he definitely is not tackling anti-semitism with every breathe in his body like he has said. Labour really needs to get a grip of this issue that has been rumbling on for 3 years now and deal unequivocably with cases. Corbyn needs to make a speech that underlines that he believes that Israel has a right to exist and that he believes in a 2 state solution. This is a sore that is festering. It is however interesting that there are anti-semites that get away with that and Islamaphobia within the Tory party whilst the heat is on Labour for this issue.

Voting Intentions: The Boris Bounce !!! :- Today’s YouGov poll shows that, for the first time ever, Labour has fallen into fourth place with just 18% of the vote. The Conservative’s lead on 24%, with the Brexit party on 23%, the Lib Dems on 20%, and the Green’s on 9%.

Wiki has a tracker for them all which is very useful. The media jump up and down about spikes but looking at trend Labour have been doing much better than we are being led to believe :winks:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_genera l_election#2019

The Lib Dems keep having spikes and then dip straight back down to their usual %'s so they are hardly the next GE leaders we are being told.

The Tories do seem to be recovering though and challenging Labour for the top slot again. Is it a swing from TBP? Nope, some polls show both those parties near the top.

I can only think it's about who they are asking and whether the population selections are as diverse as they should be? :shrug:

[mezzaninedoor]

Cricket, I love it, ahhhh !!!!

[Phill2]

:biggrin: I think ours would need some adult babies in there for that :winks:

And raincoats :roflmao:

[mezzaninedoor]

Drink it In !!!!

https://youtu.be/R-CIggoU4VM

Jonathan Pie in Rant mode.

[MyNameIsTerry]

And raincoats :roflmao:

:biggrin: Very true http://yoursmiles.org/tsmile/sex/t1542.gif (http://yoursmiles.org/t-sex.php?page=2)

[MyNameIsTerry]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48946070 - Yesterdays Panorama was very strong in its allegations against the Labour leadership and its interference in the Labour Disputes team over anti-semitism. I don't believe that Jeremy Corbyn is an anti-semite but he definitely is not tackling anti-semitism with every breathe in his body like he has said. Labour really needs to get a grip of this issue that has been rumbling on for 3 years now and deal unequivocably with cases. Corbyn needs to make a speech that underlines that he believes that Israel has a right to exist and that he believes in a 2 state solution. This is a sore that is festering. It is however interesting that there are anti-semites that get away with that and Islamaphobia within the Tory party whilst the heat is on Labour for this issue.


I've always thought it was the problem faced by others such as Trump, you cast your net wide for voters and then don't want to lose them later.

Whilst I don't believe Corbyn is an anti-Semite I don't think he's strong. I get the impression is an inclusive people pleaser type so likely great at a local level as he is committed but terrible at leadership level where you can't please everyone. To get he votes needed he, and his backers, dragged in a load of people from the militant end of the left who come with their varying views, some of them anti Semitic. Just like with Brexit where he is stuck between Leave & Remain voters he has the problem of a left that has members who are completely fine with anti Semitism and misogyny. And there are the enablers, the ones who look the other way, which is what Corbyn is.

He makes the right noises about not tolerating it but the lack of action shows the reality. Either they or those behind them don't want the action so it's just press office statement stuff for the media.

But to be honest as a swing voter I couldn't care less about their policy on Israel! I want to know their policies on the UK!

[mezzaninedoor]

I've always thought it was the problem faced by others such as Trump, you cast your net wide for voters and then don't want to lose them later.

Whilst I don't believe Corbyn is an anti-Semite I don't think he's strong. I get the impression is an inclusive people pleaser type so likely great at a local level as he is committed but terrible at leadership level where you can't please everyone. To get he votes needed he, and his backers, dragged in a load of people from the militant end of the left who come with their varying views, some of them anti Semitic. Just like with Brexit where he is stuck between Leave & Remain voters he has the problem of a left that has members who are completely fine with anti Semitism and misogyny. And there are the enablers, the ones who look the other way, which is what Corbyn is.

He makes the right noises about not tolerating it but the lack of action shows the reality. Either they or those behind them don't want the action so it's just press office statement stuff for the media.

But to be honest as a swing voter I couldn't care less about their policy on Israel! I want to know their policies on the UK!

Totally agree, I think Corbyn is a very weal Leader. Some of his policies make sense, some don't but added to his weak leadership even with some good policies he isn't really someone I'm very comfortable voting for.

However for other reasons and similar reasons I don't find Johnson / Hunt enticing either.

Don't know how the Lib Dem Leadership contest is going to go but they have a great chance to get policies across with a good Leader, this is a key time for a key appointment for the LibDems.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Totally agree, I think Corbyn is a very weal Leader. Some of his policies make sense, some don't but added to his weak leadership even with some good policies he isn't really someone I'm very comfortable voting for.

However for other reasons and similar reasons I don't find Johnson / Hunt enticing either.

Don't know how the Lib Dem Leadership contest is going to go but they have a great chance to get policies across with a good Leader, this is a key time for a key appointment for the LibDems.

Swinson or Davey isn't it? I bet Umunna is keeping an eye with landing a big job when he joined.

Swinson is a bit tarred by the last coalition but I'm not sure that will affect her too much as it was more Clegg & Cable that seemed to take the heat. Some may question her voting record during that time though but Brexit will likely overtake it all anyway.

I'm not sure any of the Tory candidates were particularly appealing. I'm not liking their proposed tax cuts for the better off. Someone made the point it would be more appealing to raise the threshold for the lower band so the main working class get a boost, which seemed a better way without driving away voters due to the inevitable distaste of the have's & have nots issue.

I guess it's going to be a Labour/LibDem vs Tory/TBP coalition? If these can't obtain enough seats then the SNP/Plaid and maybe DUP will end up kingmakers. I would hope Brexit is over by the next GE so we can see TBP fizzle out (a coalition with them is going to drag the Tories further to the right as Farage has some nutty people in there...and even ex Communist Party members aligned over the EU).

Removing Brexit will be interesting for Labour. It will realise Corbyn from his northern shackles, unless he follows advice to ditch us al in favour of chasing southern Remain votes, and return us to the usual infighting but at least it will mean a clearer manifesto for voters.

[mezzaninedoor]

I agree that raising the lower rate band is the best way to offer tax cuts as everyone benefits equally, its been a good Lib Dem polisy to raise that during the coalition

[MyNameIsTerry]

Yes, definately. It's not so long ago it rarely moved from around 4570. Salaries weren't that much lower, at least looking at my area (lower level salaries have increased a few grand, some closer to 5/6k from what I can see) but the tax cut increase under the Tories was a massive benefit to those lower down who paid a lot in tax. You can take a far greater chunk tax free if you are on minimum wage (25+) and it will help with your mortgage applications.

I'm not so sure about the higher band reduction other than it might make the middle classes more likely to vote Tory. It certainly won't do anything for the top tier people (don't they pay more like 90%?) who can easily squirrel it away from the taxman anyway.

The thing for me is even the tax bands are out of date. Someone into the 40% in my region will be loaded! Someone in London won't be because of the housing issue.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Darroch has learnt the lesson many have, if you say something on recordable media it's only yourself you have to blame if it bites you on the bum later. :doh: I guess it's a dirty tricks shuffle and some want an investigation to sort that out? https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-party-richard-tice-darroch-18206347

[MyNameIsTerry]

What a beautiful creature. Clearly intelligent. I'm glad they could help her. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-48981458

[Phill2]

We're good like that.
On TV it was almost like the ray went to them and asked for help.

[mezzaninedoor]

Im afraid im not impressed with the political interlectual heavyweight (sic) Boris Johnsons latest stab at policy and provision for curing mental health. Hes not the deep political thinker his supporters attest to him being. If anything his view of work and mental health is a lazy view and he wants to promote tax breaks for something that should be there in organisations anyway.

Why do people support this buffoon being PrimeMinister, for me he often just be99ars belief.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/14/can-improve-mental-health-save-money-boost-economy-one-go/
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/16/boris-johnson-working-harder-mental-health-tax-privatising-nhs
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/boris-johnsons-idea-hard-work-cures-mental-illness-total-madness-telegraph-column/

[MyNameIsTerry]

Im afraid im not impressed with the political interlectual heavyweight (sic) Boris Johnsons latest stab at policy and provision for curing mental health. Hes not the deep political thinker his supporters attest to him being. If anything his view of work and mental health is a lazy view and he wants to promote tax breaks for something that should be there in organisations anyway.

Why do people support this buffoon being PrimeMinister, for me he often just be99ars belief.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/14/can-improve-mental-health-save-money-boost-economy-one-go/
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/16/boris-johnson-working-harder-mental-health-tax-privatising-nhs
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/boris-johnsons-idea-hard-work-cures-mental-illness-total-madness-telegraph-column/

Is there an original transcript (sorry, cant read Telegraph without joining) or was this all he said?

As both publications mention there is some truth in it, and mental health organisations push volunteering for a very good reason, but it's not a one size fits all problem. He may be thinking this is one way to tackle the lower level mental health cases? Employers can make these worse so putting new legislation in place (not tax breaks) would be helpful but it will never be more than a simple tool in the toolbox for the more complex cases.

I know from my own experience leaving work was only going yo make me spiral and my confidence to go. However, my employer was a box ticker when it came to health (and they were a multinational you all know as they are frequently on tv advertising) and the work environment wasn't conducive to anything other than hard chasing of targets year after year. It was keeping me up and also kicking me down at the same time and there comes the point of diminishing returns.

I'm sceptical about work placed therapy. I am more for NHS treatment. I would prefer the NHS do the treatment because the employer has a legal say in what you get. The employee is also entitled to challenge your diagnosis and even talk to counselling services about your treatment. Whilst there is data protection you are naïve if you think in house services don't chat whilst having a ciggie outside the building (the things I used to hear about people's confidential treatments demonstrated this to me and it was shocking stuff from basic to who they were trying to fire to people who had suffered sexual assaults).

I would want more legislation and more protection for the individual. Firms only care about money. Sorry to break it to The Guardian but welcome to the reality of the world we live in. Work to change it all you want but make sure you prop up "the now" with something that isn't unicorn territory.

This can easily be spun as US healthcare, something which are friends on here can access far quicker than we can and get a range of treatments we have no hope of accessing, but firms have been doing this for sometime as part of policy. The question might be whether making it more formal would start to push things too far into insurance needs that end up hitting employees? Smaller firms may not be able to support expensive treatment and this is why I favour the NHS again just as auto enrolment for pensions has meant a public scheme for those companies.

Another issue I have is the varying standards of mental health care. No one is really regulating the private industry and there are charlatans out there. There are therapists who have qualified after a few hundred study hours on the internet and never seeing a client. Who is going to ensure the quality of care? Bringing it into the NHS at least provides the basic standards they have and no they aren't enough either as they are nothing like the high standards of the rest of the medical community.

I guess they will say you can still access the NHS. But if the Tories then seek to reduce that funding...

Also, bare in mind these articles are talking about psychiatrists. Anyone on here will know accessing one of those is like trying to find the Holy Grail. And despite what those articles say mental health was woeful long before austerity, it was awful under Blair, Cameron just halted the progress. Good luck getting to a see a psychiatrist if you have anxiety, the waiting times for treatment around my city have always been 12 months (although you can be assessed fairly quickly). So, whilst I see these articles are written by people who have personal involvement in these areas I'm also aware what they are saying is not a reflection of it all either and it looks nothing like my experiences and mch of what I see on here.

[mezzaninedoor]

https://www.markpack.org.uk/159341/lib-dem-leadership-contest-result/

Well, will this have any bearing on future LibDems performance. The LibDems seem buoyed by it internally and the news media itself seems to have been positive about it.
They have to move from just being the party of 'remain' though as we will be leaving the EU regardless now, of that I have no doubt and everything will be about navigating and shaping future relationships with the EU and outside of the EU.

[mezzaninedoor]

When Boris was young he wanted to be 'World King' so his Dad Stanley Johnson shared. Today Boris is one step closer to that.

Theres a great piece in the Independant today bu Simon Kelner which looks at what Boris's base instincts are. Simon comes to the judgement that Boris has the instincts of a Journalist not a PrimeMinister/Politician. However he does admit that Boris is oft a good journalist though he points out he is still flaws even where his instincts lay:- He made up quote for the Times and got sacked, he upset the whole on Liverpool on 2 different occasions, there are many more faffs that people know where Boris has made it up as he went along, saldy one resulting in a harsher outcome for the arrested lady in Iran.

So its with sadness that I see Boris is PM. I do rather that he was entertaining me on Have I Got News for You than holding this highest office :(

[ sadtimes ]

[pulisa]

Boris was a legend on HIGNFY. 2 members of the Johnson clan have been on Celeb Big Brother-dad revels in the media spotlight and sister is desperate for attention at any cost/
It's all panto.

[mezzaninedoor]

It's all panto.

Boris is Faff the Fifth Horseman of the Borisapocalypse !

[Phill2]

Good to see you got Boris.
If nothing else he's entertaining.:roflmao:

[MyNameIsTerry]

Good to see you got Boris.If nothing else he's entertaining.:roflmao:I bet No 10's Butler is busy hiding the posh crockery, Bojo's current flame likes throwing plates at him :roflmao:

[Phill2]

Can't wait to see a vid
Memes should start soon.

[Phill2]

What about something from Fawlty Towers?

[MyNameIsTerry]

What about something from Fawlty Towers?

Well they've got the signage covered :yesyes:

https://i.imgur.com/ECWkVP9_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

[Phill2]

Well done :yesyes:

[MyNameIsTerry]

https://www.markpack.org.uk/159341/lib-dem-leadership-contest-result/

Well, will this have any bearing on future LibDems performance. The LibDems seem buoyed by it internally and the news media itself seems to have been positive about it.
They have to move from just being the party of 'remain' though as we will be leaving the EU regardless now, of that I have no doubt and everything will be about navigating and shaping future relationships with the EU and outside of the EU.

So far she has gone into full Remain fighting mode. She will be looking to steal Labour votes and keep them. The usual slippery vote rigging 2nd referendum question.

The question might be whether she will entertain a coalition or C&S agreement with Labour? I did hear something about this might be the case under terms Corbyn steps down but that won't please the Labour members who stay so why would they give into those who have fled the party?

[mezzaninedoor]

Jacob Rees Mogg in Cabinet.
Cabinet has lurched Right it seems.

[mezzaninedoor]

Why are we still going ahead with HS2, why are we going to create ecological damage at this level at this cost?
It stinks.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Jacob Rees Mogg in Cabinet.Cabinet has lurched Right it seems.Obviously a deal and about the ERG. But he can't win with just them. He's juggling balls like May. Now the interview BS is over we can see what he is really about.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Excellent news! :yesyes: She wasn't a solicitor for very long: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-49251372

[MyNameIsTerry]

This very convenient suicide will be raising some eyebrows across America :whistles: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/10/jeffrey-epstein-the-wealthy-financier-accused-of-child-sex-trafficking-commits-suicide-nbc-citing-sources.html

[Hollow]

This very convenient suicide will be raising some eyebrows across America :whistles: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/10/jeffrey-epstein-the-wealthy-financier-accused-of-child-sex-trafficking-commits-suicide-nbc-citing-sources.html

Careful, Terry, you're beginning to sound like a conspiracy nut. The FBI says there is no foul play so everything is above board.

http://www.whale.to/a/19522_330521000394680_1564719773_n.jpg

[MyNameIsTerry]

Careful, Terry, you're beginning to sound like a conspiracy nut. The FBI says there is no foul play so everything is above board.

http://www.whale.to/a/19522_330521000394680_1564719773_n.jpg

:roflmao: I think I'm one of many millions who propped up the world economy with tin foil hat purchases :yesyes:

With so many rich & powerful people involved it's hard not to assume anything else. :winks:

[Phill2]

I reckon Terry might be right about this one.
Wouldn't be the first "apparent" suicide that others benefited from. :winks:

[MyNameIsTerry]

I reckon Terry might be right about this one.Wouldn't be the first "apparent" suicide that others benefited from. :winks:Her Maj sent in the palace hit squad, informally known as The Corgis :yesyes: Alternatively, if we haven't seen a body, a man of such wealth and links could easily be on a nice private island somewhere...hopefully without the young girls :whistles:

[Phill2]

This article says a lot
https://www.couriermail.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/billionaire-paedophile-jeffrey-epstein-found-dead-in-jail-cell/news-story/5a5e3ceb7d2c4175f90a2ac06dfeeac6

[MyNameIsTerry]

This article says a lothttps://www.couriermail.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/billionaire-paedophile-jeffrey-epstein-found-dead-in-jail-cell/news-story/5a5e3ceb7d2c4175f90a2ac06dfeeac6Amazing coincidence with the cameras. I thought the same as Jamie Lee Curtis, The Godfather.

[Phill2]

Apparently there was another bloke in the cell with him but he was "sound asleep" at the time ?????

[pulisa]

Something doesn't add up in the tragic case of Nora Quoirin in my opinion. I just don't understand why she wasn't found any sooner.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Apparently there was another bloke in the cell with him but he was "sound asleep" at the time ?????

That's a pretty serious case of sleep walking, doing the deed and going out to fetch a stuffed brown envelope then retuning to your bed :biggrin:

[MyNameIsTerry]

Something doesn't add up in the tragic case of Nora Quoirin in my opinion. I just don't understand why she wasn't found any sooner.

I've not caught up on this yet. Didn't she starve to death? Poor young woman.

[pulisa]

Yes but she was found just over a mile from their hotel near a waterfall she had wanted to visit.

[mezzaninedoor]

Prince Andrew seems to have become Her Maj favourite Son all of a sudden, Shes been spotted out with him many times recently as hes sucked into the Epstein debacle. Also rumours of a Fergie/Andy reMatch ?

[MyNameIsTerry]

Prince Andrew seems to have become Her Maj favourite Son all of a sudden, Shes been spotted out with him many times recently as hes sucked into the Epstein debacle. Also rumours of a Fergie/Andy reMatch ?

Hasn't it been rumoured Fergie/Andy have been back on for some time? :winks:

Fergie is also implicated as she took money from Epstein which Andy secured for her. I think this was all after he was originally convicted.

[mezzaninedoor]

Part 1: What should the real response be to the Amazon fires?
Is £18 million lip service from the G7.
I thought we were in a 'climate emergency'

Part 2: I have noticed how a lot of right wing writers are trolling Greta Thunberg on Twitter.
Is she fair game just because shes taken a stand regardless of her young age?
It feels to me like very un-Adult behaviour. Gaslighting against something undeniably true.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Part 1: What should the real response be to the Amazon fires?
Is £18 million lip service from the G7.
I thought we were in a 'climate emergency'

Part 2: I have noticed how a lot of right wing writers are trolling Greta Thunberg on Twitter.
Is she fair game just because shes taken a stand regardless of her young age?
It feels to me like very un-Adult behaviour. Gaslighting against something undeniably true.

Part 1: That doesn't seem like very much money at all. Macron was jumping up & down about it earlier in the week and this is all they are doing? So, it's really just the issue of the week soon to be buried under the next emergency they feed us? In reality, Tony, weren't we told in our geography lessons about how we were destroying the Amazon and that was quite a while back for us? Surely what we need to be doing is stop feeding Brazil with the demand that is causing them to slash & burn?

Part 2: I'm wary of this because she is a young person and trolls will always represent the unpleasant end of human behaviour. I don't think she should be a target at her age despite her doing all this. At the same time I'm also aware of the BS the media were selling about her being just some average kid because she is very far from that and the likelihood is she is a face for those behind who can open the doors. These might be who those right wing writers are really trying to get at but it isn't the right way.

[mezzaninedoor]

headlines today.

1) Children playing in the sea in 22 degrees heat. This isn't Great Britain this is a village 700 miles North of the Arctic Circle. The normal temperature would be 8 degrees. They have had Mosquitos, something they have never experienced before.
Journies that until recently took 3 weeks in the 70's and days recently now take a single day.
Their lives are being transformed but the rest of the World will see the damage.

2) Boris has taken the Prorogue step we all knew he would. Hes dressing it up as Business as Normal but in fact its a very very clever piece of Politics that the Queen has signed off on. If HOC business doesnt deal with legislation preventing No Deal before the profogue date, legislation is dead stopped, not just picked up when they return on October 14th. i have to say Im uncomfortable with this.

[mezzaninedoor]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49584907

its a trap!!!

[MyNameIsTerry]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49584907

its a trap!!!

What are they afraid of though? They've spent ages wanting the Tories booted out and Brexit changed to a Labour one (or cancelled completely by other parties) and now they are all being so coy about it.

Corbyn has spent the whole of this year ducking a second referendum question until recently by implying he wanted a GE instead. Now he doesn't? What are you afraid of Jeremy?

I understand they want to apply for an extension first and I would imagine announcing a GE would mean the EU would extend anyway and see what party comes through.

Whilst I know it's all about strategy there is something hypocritical about whinging about wanting change all year and then when someone offers the opportunity to seize it everyone hides behind a desk. But then we all know Jeremy has been trailing Boris in the polls ever since the Tories put him in...:whistles: so it's the usual opposition BS of whinging they want in to offer anything & everything knowing they won't get the chance.

I guess the issue is whether Boris would set the GE date after the 31/10 but surely if that were the case they could just bring this Bill in anyway on the basis of him doing this? Surely MP's would be equally as outraged as now and support it? But then the way they have opted does mean Jeremy can whinge on about wanting a GE without having to step up for one. I wonder whether he will just go down as a moaner who can moan he never got his second chance as he will be to old at the next one?

[Phill2]

In all seriousness it's gone beyond a joke.
It's gotten to the stage where they've got to either exit now or not at all.
If nothing else the British parliament is entertaining on Aussie TV.

[AntsyVee]

I would just like to say thank you to the UK parliament for the entertainment today, and for making my government students actually interested (somewhat) in global affairs. The top question they asked me today: why does the House of Lords have better cushioned benches than the House of Commons?

[Phill2]

After seeing last nights news it's obviously so the head of the house gets a better rest :roflmao:

[MyNameIsTerry]

Because most of the time half of the Lords are asleep on the benches :biggrin: But seriously they may want to consider the Lords were always the rich gentry hence a nicer cushion for one's bottom (and the Queen sits in that chamber too, not with the riff raff in the Commons :biggrin:)

[AntsyVee]

That’s what I said to them Terry. They replied that’s terribly elitist...or in their words “That’s messed up”

[MyNameIsTerry]

In all seriousness it's gone beyond a joke.It's gotten to the stage where they've got to either exit now or not at all.If nothing else the British parliament is entertaining on Aussie TV.It's hilarious. In the indicative votes we had months back not a single proposal secured enough votes. So they failed to agree on alternative types of exit but hilariously they also failed to agree to cancel the exit. All they seem to agree on is extending the time to come up with a solution. I have a feeling it is going to take the EU putting their foot down on extensions to bring this to a head. If we go all Sci-Fi for a minute, considering the climate emergency, these are the idiots who would have to arrange the shuttles to another planet! "We can't agree on where to go and we can't agree on staying so we are requesting Mother Earth grant us an extension pretty please" :doh:

[MyNameIsTerry]

That’s what I said to them Terry. They replied that’s terribly elitist...or in their words “That’s messed up”Aha, so they worked out our betters then. I think people may not realise that whilst the Roundheads removed the power of the monarchy back then there was a class system that strongly kept we little people in our subservient place. That might seem strange to Americans but black Americans might find some similarity in their second class status to the working class Brit in our history? We were cattle to the middle classes and aristocracy but then it's the same in the history of every nation to an extent (we had no cake and guillotines though...I studied French history and it was so much more exciting! )

[Phill2]

:roflmao:
It's hilarious. In the indicative votes we had months back not a single proposal secured enough votes. So they failed to agree on alternative types of exit but hilariously they also failed to agree to cancel the exit. All they seem to agree on is extending the time to come up with a solution. I have a feeling it is going to take the EU putting their foot down on extensions to bring this to a head. If we go all Sci-Fi for a minute, considering the climate emergency, these are the idiots who would have to arrange the shuttles to another planet! "We can't agree on where to go and we can't agree on staying so we are requesting Mother Earth grant us an extension pretty please" :doh:

[MyNameIsTerry]

The House of Lords toilets probably resemble this...

https://img.gifglobe.com/grabs/fatherted/S02E10/S02E10-EUVXy7zA.jpg

:yesyes:

[mezzaninedoor]

The General Election is a trap for Labour because Labour would lose it and hand Boris a majority, he and Cummings know that and are hoping that Corbyn, Sturgeon will go for it. Tories will lose seats to SNP in Scotland but will gain from Labour in England. Labour need a new leader in order to win an Election.

Avoiding 'No Deal' is what the Rebel Alliance ( Star Wars !!! ) need to focus on, Boris has been lying about it going well as EU have not had a single proposal from him regards what the UK would do instead of the currently agreed withdrawal agreement.

[Phill2]

Is the bloke in white the official bum wiper :shrug:

[MyNameIsTerry]

Is the bloke in white the official bum wiper :shrug:Yes, that's why he has one hand behind his back as it's like nicotine stains once you've worked there long enough. Also, them being politicians he probably has to offer them a hand shandy as a service too, offering aftershave like many toilet attendants would be too minor a service. :winks:

[mezzaninedoor]

Its really interesting to see the main stream media still trying to demonise Jeremy Corbyn during this period where there are 20+ Conservatives who are saying that Boris Johnson is not using Conservative principles to govern the country. Hes not being fiscally responsible or being a One Nation Conservative.

It still seems that setting Jeremy Corbyn up as a dodgy Trot has more negatives than lovable rogue Boris Johnson who wants to drive the UK economy off a cliff in a No Deal.

Rees Mogg and Johnson both calling Corbyn chicken when theres no way he should go for an election that would likely deliver a No Deal but journalists just don't seem to be offering deep analysis of the Tory slide to the right. Its ignomy for Soames and Clarkes careers to end in this way.

Politics is horrible at the moment.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Its really interesting to see the main stream media still trying to demonise Jeremy Corbyn during this period where there are 20+ Conservatives who are saying that Boris Johnson is not using Conservative principles to govern the country. Hes not being fiscally responsible or being a One Nation Conservative.

It still seems that setting Jeremy Corbyn up as a dodgy Trot has more negatives than lovable rogue Boris Johnson who wants to drive the UK economy off a cliff in a No Deal.

Rees Mogg and Johnson both calling Corbyn chicken when theres no way he should go for an election that would likely deliver a No Deal but journalists just don't seem to be offering deep analysis of the Tory slide to the right. Its ignomy for Soames and Clarkes careers to end in this way.

Politics is horrible at the moment.

With much of the media being government backing, whichever party is in e.g. BBC, or having a permanent basis based on their ownership anyway so they are bound to sell Corbyn as bad. The Mirror is Labour supporting but they loath Corbyn and have from the start but since Blair intervened urging Labour not to support a GE they will leave Corbyn alone.

Boris being a write for the rags means he has his mates to back him up.

Businesses are as afraid of Corbyn government as No Deal what with McDonnell wanting to raid shares and stifle markets like private rents. And then we have the enormous spending on re-nationalisation programmes.

He's really lost his majority now though so it is difficult not to see a GE coming. Those DUP votes aren't enough anymore are they?

[MyNameIsTerry]

The General Election is a trap for Labour because Labour would lose it and hand Boris a majority, he and Cummings know that and are hoping that Corbyn, Sturgeon will go for it. Tories will lose seats to SNP in Scotland but will gain from Labour in England. Labour need a new leader in order to win an Election.

Avoiding 'No Deal' is what the Rebel Alliance ( Star Wars !!! ) need to focus on, Boris has been lying about it going well as EU have not had a single proposal from him regards what the UK would do instead of the currently agreed withdrawal agreement.

True. I just think even if Corbyn supported it and Boris set it as 1/11 they could raise an emergency Bill to do the same as now and force an extension. The EU would be willing do so do for a GE and Hammond has obviously been asking about this recently to raise this issue with the likes of Starmer and Grieve.

Doing it this way removes the chance that couldn't happen but it's hard not to see it with no Tory majority and the other parties would support it under the Remain banner.

The Tory rebels may not support a GE as they are toast in their constituencies. But it is time we start having by-elections for those who leave parties as it's getting a bit ridiculous now with the latest defection to the Lib Dems and the CHUK bunch from both parties. They can no longer claim to represent their constituents, certainly not on Brexit anyway in many cases.

Have you seen Corbyn has annoyed the SNP? He may lose their support now. He won't allow them an independence vote on the basis he wants Labour to help Scotland...but Labour is dead up there.

We seem to have no idea what they are doing with the EU but it doesn't sound good. Boris winning could justify No Deal and his strategy so it is risky. And it's not like Brexit is all we vote on. But I do find it very interesting that even despite all this, polls show Boris still beats Corbyn. Doesn't that tell Labour they need to pull their heads out of their bums? They couldn't beat a very lacklustre May and now a supposedly hated BoJo. :shrug: I do wonder whether Corbyn will moan about wanting more GE's but still back out even when this Bill comes in and one senior Labour "source" (which could mean any bloke walking past a reporting or a fictional person these days) has said he doesn't want a GE even with an extension.

[AntsyVee]

Aha, so they worked out our betters then. I think people may not realise that whilst the Roundheads removed the power of the monarchy back then there was a class system that strongly kept we little people in our subservient place. That might seem strange to Americans but black Americans might find some similarity in their second class status to the working class Brit in our history? We were cattle to the middle classes and aristocracy but then it's the same in the history of every nation to an extent (we had no cake and guillotines though...I studied French history and it was so much more exciting! )

On no Terry, they get it. All of my students, except two, are non-white.

Its just that in the US, we know there are class and racial differences, but it’s not blatantly on display by ones government. In our country, everyone knows the system is biased against the lower classes, but it’s never acknowledged by the gov’t. When the kids see yours, or even talk about your constitutional monarchy, they are amazed that higher classes are so readily acknowledged and that primogeniture still is the way of your royalty. Remember, most of them have never been off our continent before.

FYI...the cake thing is a myth. But they still have some guillotines in France. ;)

[mezzaninedoor]

I think there has been a lot written in analysis regards the Brexit vote and its roots in class.
Historian Jon Lawrence tells us that to experience class at the wrong end of the scale, where you have been economically forgotten, culturally denigrated and politically marginalised it can become a fight against visible and invisible forces. Those invisible forces partly being projected onto the EU in this recent referendum vote & immigration.
We saw traditional Labour heartlands vote for Brexit partly because of being forgotten and the belief that the coffers of Government were being spent in metropolitan areas especially London.
There was a narrative that UKIP and Leave could use to educate those disaffected people into voting for Brexit even though in many ways the people in the Leave project were part of the Elite with some of them having links with people shorting ( investment wise ) against the pound and British business.
A recent Tory thinktank has reversed the idea that people want more choice, social mobility and autonomy with the idea that people want to belong, they rallied around the Union Jack for Brexit and want to be protected by Government from the modern world and its ravages. The thing is in some industries the Government or any prospective Government has no idea how to deal with the march of Online selling vs the High Street or other such dilemmas within modern economies where the internet and globalism has really had an affect.
The Labour party appears to misread the politics of community as well and where it had a real connection with the working classes other parties have been able to begin to pick that apart and tell us a tale where Labour for some is more for recent immigrants than it is for long standing residents of the UK, that it is more about big political reforms like renationalisation than it is about all the small problems that people face in localities.
Succesful engagement with the modern working class does not seem to be about whom speaks to whom on the doorstep or about mystical working class values but perhaps its about essential needs of everyone being met. Often someone will say, how can that rich elite businessman go bankrupt to the tune of millions and yet I have to argue so long and hard just to get the universal benefits that im entitled to as teh safety net of this country.

With the housing issues that affect the young when buying into the housing market, low paid retail jobs that were in abundance dissapearing etc etc isn't it probably true that for many that a full, rich life , free of those stresses that are avoidable now feels quite hard for many to achieve?

[AntsyVee]

There was a narrative that UKIP and Leave could use to educate those disaffected people into voting for Brexit even though in many ways the people in the Leave project were part of the Elite with some of them having links with people shorting ( investment wise ) against the pound and British business.

Yes, I spoke about this in class to explain how so many people were led to vote for Brexit.


The Labour party appears to misread the politics of community as well and where it had a real connection with the working classes other parties have been able to begin to pick that apart and tell us a tale where Labour for some is more for recent immigrants than it is for long standing residents of the UK, that it is more about big political reforms like renationalisation than it is about all the small problems that people face in localities.

This has been going on in the US with our Democrat party. It’s really disillusioned many, and contributed to the election of Trump.

if one looks at the political trends across many of the developed nations right now, there is a rise of nationalism, a domination of two political parties/less choice, and a larger ratio between the rich elite and the working class. As a historian, sometimes it scares the hell outta me.

[mezzaninedoor]

There is definitely a rise in Nationalism in Europe, right across Europe.
Some political parties like the Tories seem to be addressing it by embracing it ( hence expelling the 21 rebels ) rather than fighting it.
We have lots of people who shout down human rights as just PC gone mad when human rights have in many countries been essential to people finding better lives.
I'm pretty upset with politics at the moment but I'm hoping that the recent HOC collaboration could be a move towards a more collaborative politics and also proportional representation as an election method.

[MyNameIsTerry]

How do you define the elite? Billionaires? To many working class people the bar is set far lower. Any MP is elite, big salary and insulated from the wrongs without much of a clue how things really are. People earning large salaries are middle class but can be considered elitist not only due to the financial side but how some view higher education to mean a worthier human being. These have long been working class complaints. Don't look just to the disaster capitalists and don't forget that all current systems are beneficial to the elites since they occupy both sides of such arguments.

[MyNameIsTerry]

There is definitely a rise in Nationalism in Europe, right across Europe.Some political parties like the Tories seem to be addressing it by embracing it ( hence expelling the 21 rebels ) rather than fighting it.We have lots of people who shout down human rights as just PC gone mad when human rights have in many countries been essential to people finding better lives.I'm pretty upset with politics at the moment but I'm hoping that the recent HOC collaboration could be a move towards a more collaborative politics and also proportional representation as an election method.It's nothing new really is it? Go back 10 years and the BNP were on the rise. Even so with all the shouting and marches they gained no power in anything. Then came UKIP which overlap into the far right parties and yet they gained no power. It has clearly been proven that UKIP only attracted people because they wanted a say on the EU. Once that was over they contracted greatly. Tommy Robinson is another resurgence of the likes of the BNP of the past but again they have no power, just shouting and protests. Now consider some other countries in the EU, or wider Europe, and see far right groups with real power. Italy, Poland, Austria, even Spain and Germany. I wonder if we are really so bad compared to what happens there? Or is it that our press give us less of view of the problems abroad so that we only see our own and assume we live in a very troubled country?

[AntsyVee]

How do you define the elite? Billionaires? To many working class people the bar is set far lower. Any MP is elite, big salary and insulated from the wrongs without much of a clue how things really are. People earning large salaries are middle class but can be considered elitist not only due to the financial side but how some view higher education to mean a worthier human being. These have long been working class complaints. Don't look just to the disaster capitalists and don't forget that all current systems are beneficial to the elites since they occupy both sides of such arguments.

Yes, but we must protect our systems and institutions that do support the democratic process, for they are under attack. Just today I woke up to the news that some states are considering cancelling their Republican state primaries because other candidates are running against the incumbent, Trump. These states say they are supporting Trump by cancelling their republican primaries. :scared15::WTF: The only thing they’re truly supporting is the downfall of our democratic process. They can’t see the Forest for the trees.

[mezzaninedoor]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49623727

Thats got to hurt Boris. Amber Rudd has come right out and sent him quite a feisty letter of resignation.
This is how many Remainers feel at the moment and some Leavers who don't want a No Deal.
It really feels like Boris government is not seeking a Deal seriously.

[MyNameIsTerry]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49623727

Thats got to hurt Boris. Amber Rudd has come right out and sent him quite a feisty letter of resignation.
This is how many Remainers feel at the moment and some Leavers who don't want a No Deal.
It really feels like Boris government is not seeking a Deal seriously.

She's in, she's out. :biggrin: There was speculation she would go as she was reported as considering her position but she just got drawn over the coals for it as she showed a lack of conviction and sold herself out even taking the job. I wonder how many of us really believed her when she thought she could change things from the inside? More like career first...

Do you think Boris even cares though? Click your fingers and another career minded MP drops into the slot. And Rudd is a minority constituency predicted to be booted out at the next GE.

I'm not sure what the strategy is or whether there even is one. :shrug: Cummings seems like an unpleasant bloke who just likes the fight itself.

I can only see this going to a GE now.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Yes, but we must protect our systems and institutions that do support the democratic process, for they are under attack. Just today I woke up to the news that some states are considering cancelling their Republican state primaries because other candidates are running against the incumbent, Trump. These states say they are supporting Trump by cancelling their republican primaries. :scared15::WTF: The only thing they’re truly supporting is the downfall of our democratic process. They can’t see the Forest for the trees.

Are these the same kind of conservative states that have spent the last year undermining women's rights trying to test the federal case for abortion? Some of things these people have said are beyond belief and if they say that in the media what do they say out of it? :ohmy:

The thing is Vee our far right tend to be all shouty but then little ever happens. The Tories have lurched farther to the right and Labour farther to the left. If we get Brexit out of the way, since it's so polarising, we might be able to get back to something more moderate across the parties as they move onto other issues.

There have and always will be those who seek to change politics for their own gain, whether left or right (and moderate). I guess we have to ensure they don't remove the checks & balances that can be used to hold them to account or moving things to the executive that allow to much power to a government. But certainly with the UK the media can talk about such as the Tory ERG group and their backers wanting a low regulation no workers rights state but they aren't going to get it as they will quickly get booted out of power. The danger is perhaps more in slow creep or death by a thousand cuts as our NHS could face under such people.

[MyNameIsTerry]

I think there has been a lot written in analysis regards the Brexit vote and its roots in class.
Historian Jon Lawrence tells us that to experience class at the wrong end of the scale, where you have been economically forgotten, culturally denigrated and politically marginalised it can become a fight against visible and invisible forces. Those invisible forces partly being projected onto the EU in this recent referendum vote & immigration.
We saw traditional Labour heartlands vote for Brexit partly because of being forgotten and the belief that the coffers of Government were being spent in metropolitan areas especially London.


Some will vote out of protest at our own government which is bizarre if the EU have no fault in any of it. Cameron was criticised for backing Remain but to be honest it wouldn't matter as MP's on both sides represent the elite to those that vote this way. I do believe the PM should have taken a neutral stance and been there to guide, debunk and offer facts, etc but he threw his lot in with Remain and trotted out BS with them. That would only push more to vote against his cause just as Blair popping up causing a collective groan across the country.

But that's one of many reasons Labour heartlands voted Leave, I'm in one (or was as it flipped to Tory for the first time in it's existence of over 100 years in the last GE). People are unhappy with immigration because they can see it affecting them. Businesses bussing in cheaper labour losing jobs to locals and keeping wages supressed. Struggling to get NHS appointments because of the demands of immigration (and this falls on all our governments in not keeping pace with inward investment to meet population increases). Some have seen Labour councillors prioritising immigrants or ethnic communities when it comes to housing or housing upgrades (councils being afraid to challenge positive discrimination in some cases). My local Asian community have been complaining for many years about increased racism due to European immigration.



There was a narrative that UKIP and Leave could use to educate those disaffected people into voting for Brexit even though in many ways the people in the Leave project were part of the Elite with some of them having links with people shorting ( investment wise ) against the pound and British business.


Sadly it was all a shambles. I can honestly say that whilst my vote stands in my eyes I do know more about the technical elements that I should have been informed on before. But then how many of our MP's even understand it? Some of them even now get it wrong on TV in interviews, basic mistakes.

But I think there is a danger in buying into this narrative a certain element are selling that unless you are a professor or captain of industry you are too thick to know how to vote. Not everyone is so easily guided by BS and I'm of the mind that if by the time you reach the end of your twenties and haven't worked out ALL politicians speak with fork tongues then you are naïve. This argument is used to undermine the working class by reducing them to thick bigots. It's an argument for technocracy, not democracy. You have to take the rough with the smooth or democracy goes out the window.

Besides UKIP in GE's had never put up a manifesto with any real solutions in it. They typically exist due to feelings and as we have seen without Farage they are nothing. Why would they educate anyone? That's like thinking the SNP are going to educate you on how Scotland can live outside the union when you would be putting your trust in people who are biased.

But you are right, someone should have been educated us all. Not Leave voters, all voters. But even now it's BS between the UK and the EU with speculations being put out about things when we have clear written policies that state how it is and should be. There are too many people contradicting each other over here and over there.



A recent Tory thinktank has reversed the idea that people want more choice, social mobility and autonomy with the idea that people want to belong, they rallied around the Union Jack for Brexit and want to be protected by Government from the modern world and its ravages. The thing is in some industries the Government or any prospective Government has no idea how to deal with the march of Online selling vs the High Street or other such dilemmas within modern economies where the internet and globalism has really had an affect.

The Labour party appears to misread the politics of community as well and where it had a real connection with the working classes other parties have been able to begin to pick that apart and tell us a tale where Labour for some is more for recent immigrants than it is for long standing residents of the UK, that it is more about big political reforms like renationalisation than it is about all the small problems that people face in localities.

Did this start with the Blair years? It probably predates it too. I mentioned this above but in my area people would be unhappy with prioritisation of certain minorities by Labour when they were always seen as the party of the working class. They chased minority votes. But I think minorities are vocal and press for change whereas we are just used to it coming to us. One of the dangers though has been the fear of accusations of racism and as we are seeing with child abuse scandals local authorities were afraid to challenge people and some of them will have used that to their advantage. Perception management is very important, the press love a good discrimination story. Even now companies are terrified of telling people to go away when they raise a daft complaint about their advertising.

Discussions of immigration were stifled when it came to non white immigration and especially from Islamic states. Of course some of this was completely bigoted and racist but shouting down everyone became the go-to strategy. When this happens you get backlashes and with them come the real racists riding the wave and feeling vindicated because the normal people are endorsing them in their tiny little minds.

In some ways you do have to help ethnic communities more because of the additional challenges we face but as you say our governments just aren't very good at it. They lurch from nothing to 100mph and end up offending someone.



Succesful engagement with the modern working class does not seem to be about whom speaks to whom on the doorstep or about mystical working class values but perhaps its about essential needs of everyone being met. Often someone will say, how can that rich elite businessman go bankrupt to the tune of millions and yet I have to argue so long and hard just to get the universal benefits that im entitled to as teh safety net of this country.

With the housing issues that affect the young when buying into the housing market, low paid retail jobs that were in abundance dissapearing etc etc isn't it probably true that for many that a full, rich life , free of those stresses that are avoidable now feels quite hard for many to achieve?

Changing industry needs to be met with new investment to bring in jobs. The trouble is, as my city has found, it's not an equal job that comes back. We used to have well paid pottery workers and now we have lower paid unskilled warehouse workers, call centre agents, etc. The companies that come here are tempted by low rents and lower salaries so they make their workforce redundant in one area and come here to save money.

Such issues, and many others of general unhappiness, predate the EU and take us back to Thatcher. We lost our pottery, coal and steel industries. Well paid, skilled jobs. Now we hump boxes about and get shouted at over the phone for minimum wage. But goods are cheaper as now they get made in China for a fraction of the price and we all pay less.

At what point do we decide to pay more so we have more jobs? If we don't we need new industries. We were lucky to see Japanese investment across the country but will we retain it now?

[AntsyVee]

Are these the same kind of conservative states that have spent the last year undermining women's rights trying to test the federal case for abortion? Some of things these people have said are beyond belief and if they say that in the media what do they say out of it? :ohmy:

The thing is Vee our far right tend to be all shouty but then little ever happens. The Tories have lurched farther to the right and Labour farther to the left. If we get Brexit out of the way, since it's so polarising, we might be able to get back to something more moderate across the parties as they move onto other issues.

There have and always will be those who seek to change politics for their own gain, whether left or right (and moderate). I guess we have to ensure they don't remove the checks & balances that can be used to hold them to account or moving things to the executive that allow to much power to a government. But certainly with the UK the media can talk about such as the Tory ERG group and their backers wanting a low regulation no workers rights state but they aren't going to get it as they will quickly get booted out of power. The danger is perhaps more in slow creep or death by a thousand cuts as our NHS could face under such people.

Yes, Terry, these are some of those same conservative states. It's like the people in these states are brainwashed. The towns are so small, it's like these people never get exposed to others different than they are...they never are exposed to new ideas...and when they are, it's soon denounced as "fake news" and "liberal crap". I'm sure you've seen a few of these brainwashed people here on NMP. That's really all I can give you to explain it...how people can vote for people and policies that work against them. I used to live in one of those states 20 years ago, and I never will again. It was like that 20 years ago, but they didn't have anyone in office to give them the "okay" for some of these beliefs. They wanted to be "shouty" but it wasn't accepted.

The only other theory I have is based on racism. Yes, the Civil War ended slavery, but through the "Jim Crow" laws in many of these states, most black Americans were disenfranchised from many of the rights they had gained as citizens. It wasn't until over a century later that it began to change. In many of these states, continuing racism was accepted even after the Civil Rights movement...the Confederate flag was still flown, people still said "the South shall rise again", the antebellum still romanticized, many activities were still segregated, like separate sports clubs for blacks and whites, black and white separate proms at school, etc. I remember when I lived back there, in school growing up (the 90's), they brushed over the impact of slavery causing the Civil War; instead it was about "state's rights." I remember the teacher discussing stats in class about the US becoming more and more non-white, and acting like it was scary, and all the kids being scared of it too.

Then in 2008, Obama gets elected. Now, he was not the perfect president, no president is or ever will be, but I think the message was in these states was "Look, everything that you think is wrong in our country right now, is the president's fault...but yeah, this one is different. He's black." Most presidents are usually blamed for the problems in a country, but they've always been the same color, and generally the same religion, as the people in these states. But then a president gets blamed and he's a minority. Suddenly policies once just associated with the democrat party or liberalism were now associated with being black and minority...and I think it felt like a threat to a lot of these people.

Will they ever admit it? Probably not. After all, they don't want to even admit that the war that killed the most Americans than any other war was caused by slavery, and slavery was bad for all classes, even slave holders. In fact, just to keep from admitting it, those kind of people would call what I'm writing to you right now as "revisionist history". The truth hurts.

And then a president was elected who voiced many of the racist and xenophobic sentiments that people had grown up with for years. Many Republicans sold their souls so-to-speak, to win their election. It's sad that support of one's political party has outweighed doing what's right. Even though I'm not registered as a Republican, I really respect Walsh and a few others who have chosen to run against Trump because they want to give their party a choice. The good news is, that even if Trump is re-elected, he can only serve four more years. Only time will tell though the impact on our country.

The two-party system has many draw-backs for both of our countries. While some argue that the parties can then act as watch-dogs toward each other, most of the time it just creates gridlock and a lack of choice.


The danger is perhaps more in slow creep or death by a thousand cuts as our NHS could face under such people. Agreed. Its already been done here. Look at the de-mantling of the Affordable Care Act.

[lebonvin]

Aha, so they worked out our betters then. I think people may not realise that whilst the Roundheads removed the power of the monarchy back then there was a class system that strongly kept we little people in our subservient place. That might seem strange to Americans but black Americans might find some similarity in their second class status to the working class Brit in our history? We were cattle to the middle classes and aristocracy but then it's the same in the history of every nation to an extent (we had no cake and guillotines though...I studied French history and it was so much more exciting! )

I'm a black American and that"s ......... baloney buddy and poorly expressed.

Damn, I said I'd keep off these current affairs topics. Must have OCD on top of all my other disorders

[MyNameIsTerry]

I'm a black American and that"s ......... baloney buddy and poorly expressed.Damn, I said I'd keep off these current affairs topics. Must have OCD on top of all my other disordersI meant in terms of having little or no civil rights (no vote, no working rights, etc) and the poverty the working class existed in. Society geared towards those who had status and the rest were worker drones for their benefit.

[lebonvin]

Hi Terry

Even by the odd norms of a mental forum, you're a strange one. Writing is not your strong point but I'm sure you have many other God-given talents. Nobody can be good at everything. I have to admit I get slightly embarrassed at some of your comments when it is obvious you have scant knowledge of the topic being discussed, but if you aware of that and it does not bother you, then please continue. You are doing nobody any harm. I will endeavour not to disturb you any further.

Best wishes

Charlie

[mezzaninedoor]

Bercow standing down after 10 years.
It seems hes keen to have a new Speaker elected without the Whips causing trouble post GE
So he would like a new Speaker in place before any GE
Will have to tune into Newsnight tonight to see what the mood of the HOC is?

Im guessing today is the last day before suspension of the HOC as well.
I don't know where that leaves us regards a GE or Deal or No Deal % wise?

[MyNameIsTerry]

Bercow is going on the 31st October :biggrin: He'd best keep an eye on that as it's a bit of a slippery date in politics at the moment :biggrin: The Benn Bill got Royal Assent so BoJo can't No Deal unless be breaks it and then it will only go to court (assuming the EU would reapply A50 as it would be unconstitutional on our part and A50 does mention that in a clause, that it must be in line with the states constitution) but they would have to catch it before this or everywhere would switch over and the damage would be done. Yep, prorogue comes in tonight.

[mezzaninedoor]

Yes. Please let's crash out without a deal, so that Jacob Rees-Mogg's company can avoid the incoming EU laws that will make them pay more than the £0 tax they currently pay on their £100M/year profits, and so that Boris' private donors can make millions out of our businesses failing. This is who Brexit is really for, them, the mega-rich tax avoiders and those that will make a mint selling off our public services, like Aaron Banks, not us. We are the fodder, not the beneficiary.

[lebonvin]

Hate to say this and really hope I'm proved wrong, but your BoJo guy will win an election just as sure as Trump will get re-elected. Don't underestimate the selfishness of home owner retirees and the crass ignorance of the unqualified whites. The third factor is racism. People assume that comes from whites but it's even worse among minorities. Chinese and Koreans hate blacks here. In your country it would be the Injuns and Hong Kongers.

[AntsyVee]

Hate to say this and really hope I'm proved wrong, but your BoJo guy will win an election just as sure as Trump will get re-elected. Don't underestimate the selfishness of home owner retirees and the crass ignorance of the unqualified whites. The third factor is racism. People assume that comes from whites but it's even worse among minorities. Chinese and Koreans hate blacks here. In your country it would be the Injuns and Hong Kongers.

I am also worried about a Trump re-election. I do agree that there is racism among minorities as well...but IMO, I think the racists who do vote for Trump are mostly white nationals. Wealthier Asians may be Republican, but many of them do not support Trump's views on immigration. I think whomever the democratic candidate will be s/he will need to address Asian voters.

I also think we need to combat the generalizations. I would like to point out that not ALL Chinese and Koreans hate black people. While yes, there are those who do, especially in the LA area if they were around for the riots, its not something you can assume about the whole group. I'm not sure "Injuns and Hong Kongers" are the most polite labels either. Let's not stoop to our president's level on here, please.

[lebonvin]

Thanks for the polite ticking off AV lol
You sounds like one of them scary old schoolteachers. I'm guessing you're white. I'm not. I think I know what I'm talking about.

[lebonvin]

Hey Antsy (AV means something else)

I don't know how old you are but you sound educated so I guess you know all about the Little Rock Nine? For the Brits here, they was 9 African Americans who integrated a high school in Arkansas in 1957 which was previously all white. One of them called Melba Beals published her memoirs in 2018 and how her faith in God got her through horrendous discrimination as a 15 year old.

I only mentioned that because I'm related to another of the Little Rock Nine who has since passed away.

[AntsyVee]

Thanks for the polite ticking off AV lol
You sounds like one of them scary old schoolteachers. I'm guessing you're white. I'm not. I think I know what I'm talking about.

You can call me Vee. And yes, i am a scary schoolteacher. You can clearly see that in my posts to Terry. But I’m only half white. And I don’t think it’s right to assume anything about anyone else. You know what they say about assumptions... and we see our president making enough of them. I don’t think we should add to them. It doesn’t move any of us forward.

[AntsyVee]

Hey Antsy (AV means something else)

I don't know how old you are but you sound educated so I guess you know all about the Little Rock Nine? For the Brits here, they was 9 African Americans who integrated a high school in Arkansas in 1957 which was previously all white. One of them called Melba Beals published her memoirs in 2018 and how her faith in God got her through horrendous discrimination as a 15 year old.

I only mentioned that because I'm related to another of the Little Rock Nine who has since passed away.

yes, I know the Little Rock Nine. The epitome of inspirational and courageous. I’m sorry for your loss.

[Phill2]

I saw the Melba movie.
Very accurate portrayal of the way things were back then.:yesyes:

[MyNameIsTerry]

Yes. Please let's crash out without a deal, so that Jacob Rees-Mogg's company can avoid the incoming EU laws that will make them pay more than the £0 tax they currently pay on their £100M/year profits, and so that Boris' private donors can make millions out of our businesses failing. This is who Brexit is really for, them, the mega-rich tax avoiders and those that will make a mint selling off our public services, like Aaron Banks, not us. We are the fodder, not the beneficiary.Disaster Capitalists will make their money whether they sought to drive the process or had no involvement. Stay in or leave these types on both sides make their money because that's all it is to them. They also probably want out because of the EU's attempts at levelling taxes and shutting down tax havens. But what these people want has nothing to do with the rest. Just look at the left wing Leavers who have their own reasons and obviously don't align with the far right types. The Brexit Party has an incredibly broad church considering it includes ex Communist Party members but it seems everyone is getting into bed with each over Brexit on both sides of this. We need to get beyond it soon to get back to everything else and that's where all of these strange bedfellows are going to find themselves distancing each other.

[mezzaninedoor]

Terry,
I agree that the wider Agenda has been ignored for far too long because of Brexit.
I guess thats something that a General Election will fix once Brexit is delivered.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Tony, given the major issues we already have with the NHS it would be good if a special cross party committee were set up to see through the issues of Brexit. Regardless of what happens there should never be a shortage of any drugs (some are ones we are on for mental health) and whilst they are stockpiling I think it should be given additional focus compared to many other issues. The drug companies are hiking their prices up due to stockpiling too so additional budgeting may be needed and I don't see why the NHS should squeeze this out of an already tight budget.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Jeremy Corbyn announces improvements to worker's rights. I would love to see the back of zero hour contracts and unpaid internships. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/10/jeremy-corbyn-extension-workers-rights-labour-tuc-congress

[AntsyVee]

So you all, I haven’t been to the UK in like 15 years. Are e-cigarettes and vaping as common there as it is here?

[MyNameIsTerry]

So you all, I haven’t been to the UK in like 15 years. Are e-cigarettes and vaping as common there as it is here?

Yes, it's very popular. We also have loads of shops just selling the stuff. We did have ads on TV for them for years but they seem to have disappeared now.

I remember seeing something interesting, it might have been a US article, about young people vaping who never smoked. There were concerns it was seen as cool and just creating a new problem.

And now we have some reports of deaths attributed to it, many including THC. It's going to be interesting to see where it goes.

[lebonvin]

Hi Antsy

I'm just lovin our little spat here! It's far more interesting for readers, if anyone is actually reading. This section seems to comprise the same 3 or 4 individuals including your good self who have conspired to agree on the dullest of topics which is a regurgitation of what you can read in a newspaper (I guess that's why it's called Headlines lol). If it makes you happy then great.

Glad you knew about the LR9. Did you read her book? It's actually not as interesting as the movie and appeals more to those with a Christian bent.

Enjoy

Charlie xx

[MyNameIsTerry]

Yes, Terry, these are some of those same conservative states. It's like the people in these states are brainwashed. The towns are so small, it's like these people never get exposed to others different than they are...they never are exposed to new ideas...and when they are, it's soon denounced as "fake news" and "liberal crap". I'm sure you've seen a few of these brainwashed people here on NMP. That's really all I can give you to explain it...how people can vote for people and policies that work against them. I used to live in one of those states 20 years ago, and I never will again. It was like that 20 years ago, but they didn't have anyone in office to give them the "okay" for some of these beliefs. They wanted to be "shouty" but it wasn't accepted.

The only other theory I have is based on racism. Yes, the Civil War ended slavery, but through the "Jim Crow" laws in many of these states, most black Americans were disenfranchised from many of the rights they had gained as citizens. It wasn't until over a century later that it began to change. In many of these states, continuing racism was accepted even after the Civil Rights movement...the Confederate flag was still flown, people still said "the South shall rise again", the antebellum still romanticized, many activities were still segregated, like separate sports clubs for blacks and whites, black and white separate proms at school, etc. I remember when I lived back there, in school growing up (the 90's), they brushed over the impact of slavery causing the Civil War; instead it was about "state's rights." I remember the teacher discussing stats in class about the US becoming more and more non-white, and acting like it was scary, and all the kids being scared of it too.

Then in 2008, Obama gets elected. Now, he was not the perfect president, no president is or ever will be, but I think the message was in these states was "Look, everything that you think is wrong in our country right now, is the president's fault...but yeah, this one is different. He's black." Most presidents are usually blamed for the problems in a country, but they've always been the same color, and generally the same religion, as the people in these states. But then a president gets blamed and he's a minority. Suddenly policies once just associated with the democrat party or liberalism were now associated with being black and minority...and I think it felt like a threat to a lot of these people.

Will they ever admit it? Probably not. After all, they don't want to even admit that the war that killed the most Americans than any other war was caused by slavery, and slavery was bad for all classes, even slave holders. In fact, just to keep from admitting it, those kind of people would call what I'm writing to you right now as "revisionist history". The truth hurts.

And then a president was elected who voiced many of the racist and xenophobic sentiments that people had grown up with for years. Many Republicans sold their souls so-to-speak, to win their election. It's sad that support of one's political party has outweighed doing what's right. Even though I'm not registered as a Republican, I really respect Walsh and a few others who have chosen to run against Trump because they want to give their party a choice. The good news is, that even if Trump is re-elected, he can only serve four more years. Only time will tell though the impact on our country.

The two-party system has many draw-backs for both of our countries. While some argue that the parties can then act as watch-dogs toward each other, most of the time it just creates gridlock and a lack of choice.


The two party system dominates our politics. I grew up being told we have 3 parties and one is pointless so we really vote between the two. Being in a working class city this meant Labour always dominate at local and national levels. But now both parties are declining we are seeing the possibility of more coalitions and Confidence & Supply Agreements. These might stretch beyond two parties in cooperation which is something seen across the rest of Europe on a more frequent basis (Germany are very used to it). To be honest I welcome this because the two main parties just play football with the NHS and the opposition spend their time jeering at the government when they were often no better before (and may have been introducing the very changes they are now jeering at). This is one of the reasons people see it as a load of nonsense.

From seeing what some Americans have said about the recent abortion law challenges I found it interesting that within these states there is a clash between metropolitan areas and the rest. They said religion was stronger outside of these cities but due to the voting system they were stuck until those areas see a decline in that.

We have some of this over here too with religion. You might have seen the news about the recent clashes in Scotland? They have links to Northern Island and the marches of the past still occur although more on the NI side with Scots travelling over there. It's bizarre to see this in Scotland now. It's always been there with the clashes between 2 football clubs and the areas they live in but we associate it more with NI where clashes are more common. NI's history means it will take generations to remove hatred so it's to be expected, especially in the more neglected areas, but it's dangerous mix of religion with nationalism vs unionism. We really don't want to see this coming back full swing through Brexit!

Rather weirdly we even had some Confederate flags over here at one point if I remember the news correctly. Tony might remember more. The English flag has long been stolen by the racist element such as the BNP but we seem to be gradually winning it back. Not so long ago you wouldn't display a flag even in footie season out of fear you would be considered BNP.


greed. Its already been done here. Look at the de-mantling of the Affordable Care Act.

Slow creep being one of the issues some have with the EU. Many argue to stop that you simply stay in because you can vote against it however it only takes the rest to redefine the voting to change that and if we are the only ones holding the rest back there is an argument we either get on board or take a different route.

But back to the NHS we can see how the PFI is currently crippling hospitals in interest.

Whilst there are many who are now getting private insurance through employers and happy to pull the ladder up behind them our social care is very important to us. Anyone who put scrapping it into their manifesto would be as popular as if they wanted to scrap disability benefits.

An issue you guys have to keep an eye on seems to be whether Roe vs Wade could be overturned in the SC. I find it strange that courts can be loaded with people based on politics to be honest. They will always have their bias even if the judiciary are separate but I've always had the impression the US SC is a power grab opportunity. And aren't a couple of your more liberal ones getting quite old now?

From reading a bit about the abortion law changes being enacted at state level it is interesting to see some are even advancing laws to protect women in more progressive states to combat the possibility of the federal law being overturned. It would be a massive step backwards as I'm sure you will agree.

[AntsyVee]

Yes, it's very popular. We also have loads of shops just selling the stuff. We did have ads on TV for them for years but they seem to have disappeared now.

I remember seeing something interesting, it might have been a US article, about young people vaping who never smoked. There were concerns it was seen as cool and just creating a new problem.

And now we have some reports of deaths attributed to it, many including THC. It's going to be interesting to see where it goes.

Yes, there have been a few people I've met who vape but haven't smoked an old-fashioned cigarette or only smoked them for a few months. I don't know any stats on it. There have been several deaths high-lighted in the news in the past week. My students were taking bets on what they think they're laced with today...

[MyNameIsTerry]

Yes, there have been a few people I've met who vape but haven't smoked an old-fashioned cigarette or only smoked them for a few months. I don't know any stats on it. There have been several deaths high-lighted in the news in the past week. My students were taking bets on what they think they're laced with today...

I think what I previously saw was connected to one of these:



https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/vaping-drug-testing-e-cigarettes-school-nicotine-pupils-us-a8965011.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/vaping-drug-testing-e-cigarettes-school-nicotine-pupils-us-a8965011.html)


https://ash.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/ASH-Factsheet-Youth-E-cigarette-Use-2019.pdf

ASH found it wasn't about being cool and that they try it but not necessarily continue.

It's probably an expensive hobby for someone at school when it's just a nice looking/smelling stick in your hand as opposed to those using nicotine or THC.