View Full Version : Dirty laundry germs
My mum visited my house after putting a dirty wash in she never washed her hands and she then came over and touched my table and sofa so I have been worried. I don’t worry about the germs too much it’s perfectionsim and I worry the items are spoiled now. I used an anti bacterial wipe but still worry it’s hard to control what people touch as they enter your house? :blush:
Relinquishing control is part of recovering from your OCD, Phil. This is what you need to work on, rather than trying to force the people around you to meet your unrealistic standards.
Relinquishing control is part of recovering from your OCD, Phil. This is what you need to work on, rather than trying to force the people around you to meet your unrealistic standards.
How might I do that? Would others not worry about dirty laundry germs?
No. There are plenty of people out there who don't think dirty laundry germs are a thing. I mean, I wash my hands more than most people I know, but I couldn't honestly tell you whether or not I do after handling unwashed laundry.
Coming at it from a non-germophobic view, these clothes have only been on our bodies and been where we've been - it's not as though we've been rolling in manure or anything. Not belittling your experience here, just explaining how others might see things.
How might I do that? Would others not worry about dirty laundry germs?
Real life professional help.
Positive thoughts
The last time this happened my partner touched my suitcase then my bag and I sold my iPad and camera I had to rebuy and I kept the headphones but they are in quarantine. Now she touched the table and I worry about the handles I mean I used anti bacterial wipes but through out my condition she only replacing items have solved the issue my urge is to get rid of the table. She touched the sofa too but I turned the cushions round. I am annoyed as 90% of my germs issues are false thoughts but 10% are ones that actually happen.
I can’t get my head round someone doing a dirty wash and then not washing hands the biggest issue is she touched my stuff. This could have happened in the past I have no idea where her hands have been but the issue is when I see it happen.
the biggest issue is she touched my stuff. This could have happened in the past I have no idea where her hands have been but the issue is when I see it happen.
I know you don't want to hear this, Phil, but you're planning on spending the rest of your life sharing living space with this person. This is why you need to start seriously working towards recovering from your illness.
I know you don't want to hear this, Phil, but you're planning on spending the rest of your life sharing living space with this person. This is why you need to start seriously working towards recovering from your illness.
Yes I mean it may not bother my partner dirty washing germs but for me I am to afraid to touch the handle without washing my hands due to this ocd.
So this is something you need to work at, and soon. I understand you have difficulties accessing therapy because of your location, but have you tried any self-help or online mindfulness courses?
So this is something you need to work at, and soon. I understand you have difficulties accessing therapy because of your location, but have you tried any self-help or online mindfulness courses?
No not tried that but it can’t stop the thoughts can it?
It can stop the thoughts affecting you so much, yes, absolutely.
One of my favourite analogies that helps me cope with my own obsessions is to imagine yourself watching cars on the motorway. If you just sit at the roadside, you can watch them pass and be at peace - you only get into trouble once you start chasing them.
It's the same thing with disturbing thoughts - you need to remind yourself they're just passing through, and you don't need to run after them.
https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/obsessive-compulsive-disorder-ocd/self-care-for-ocd/#.XMAi4KTTVPY
Hi Phil, as listed on this page above OCD Action offer online resources, links to local groups and various things for self-help.
https://www.ocdaction.org.uk/support-groups#zoom=5&lat=7175390.82387&lon=-291552.06131&layers=00BT
OCD Uk have some similar things...
http://www.ocduk.org/support-groups/
Both sites have telephone numbers, you could call and ask for links to self-help resources.
My solution? Learn to LOVE germs!
https://nypost.com/2016/08/20/we-need-to-stop-sanitizing-everything-and-let-bacteria-back-in-our-lives/
Just sayin' people! Open your eyes! (https://www.mentalhealthforum.net/forum/threads/dirty-washing-germs.201435/)
"You have described your worries in great detail in this thread and others. Doing so is a compulsion, as Orwell and others are pointing out. It is not helping you to do this, in fact its helping make things worse. If you want to get better you need to start taking actions to do so, and one of the most important is to start fighting back against your compulsions. That includes these detailed ruminations about the specifics of your fears. The contamination isn't real, no matter how much you describe it to us that won't change. You need to ask yourself what you are going to do about your compulsions to get better."
Sound familiar?
Positive thoughts
Phil, listen, it will make no difference where you describe your fears and how often you describe them - there is no magic fairy out there who is going to find words to sort this, no matter how many forums you post the same thing on.
"You have described your worries in great detail in this thread and others. Doing so is a compulsion, as Orwell and others are pointing out. It is not helping you to do this, in fact its helping make things worse. If you want to get better you need to start taking actions to do so, and one of the most important is to start fighting back against your compulsions. That includes these detailed ruminations about the specifics of your fears. The contamination isn't real, no matter how much you describe it to us that won't change. You need to ask yourself what you are going to do about your compulsions to get better."
:yesyes:
.....if you truly care about wanting to sort this out then take action. Follow any of my links given for self-help, or any other suggestions made by others on your many other threads!
I'll be even more brutally honest here; I'm not convinced that your GP and psychi have been unwilling to help. I just have a gut feeling because of how your behaviour changes once you are challenged, and how you view others and their actions/words towards you.....things might have been tried and failed and they too have gone in circles as we do here. (Possibly the same also with the cbt therapist.) There is no magic answer on the forums, you have to TAKE ACTION YOURSELF.
I'll be even more brutally honest here; I'm not convinced that your GP and psychi have been unwilling to help. I just have a gut feeling because of how your behaviour changes once you are challenged, and how you view others and their actions/words towards you.....things might have been tried and failed and they too have gone in circles as we do here. (Possibly the same also with the cbt therapist.) There is no magic answer on the forums, you have to TAKE ACTION YOURSELF.
BAM! I've seen that behavior change with several members. Posting and whining about this or that pain/fear/symptom and when challenged, they become a different person. It leads me to believe they're in more control of themselves and their situation than they let on and their reassurance seeking is a compulsion, a hungry dragon needing attention, that they allow to control them. When that dragon's source of food is threatened, their behavior changes. Its an interesting aspect of mental illness to say the least.
Positive thoughts
MyNameIsTerry
24-04-19, 13:39
Phil, listen, it will make no difference where you describe your fears and how often you describe them - there is no magic fairy out there who is going to find words to sort this, no matter how many forums you post the same thing on.
:yesyes:
.....if you truly care about wanting to sort this out then take action. Follow any of my links given for self-help, or any other suggestions made by others on your many other threads!
I'll be even more brutally honest here; I'm not convinced that your GP and psychi have been unwilling to help. I just have a gut feeling because of how your behaviour changes once you are challenged, and how you view others and their actions/words towards you.....things might have been tried and failed and they too have gone in circles as we do here. (Possibly the same also with the cbt therapist.) There is no magic answer on the forums, you have to TAKE ACTION YOURSELF.
To be fair it has not always been challenging. The same with al repetitive posters, they attract a crowd and some of that crowd just seem to want to vent at them. If anything I've been amazed at the patience of some when faced with pages of snidey comments.
I would agree on the challenging part in general though but also would add that anxiety makes us irritable and regardless of mental health the basis of many an argument starting is because of the language used or someone saying something not appreciated or a misperception of the intent.
Phil's psychiatrist actually offered a different form of therapy not long ago and I've asked him about it on here more than once but get no response. Whilst I applaud his willingness to pay for therapy to try to get help I think he has an unrealistic view of what it is and feel it's viewed as a conventional medical treatment i.e. it fixes you.
When I went through my CBT I was too deep inside my anxiety to get much benefit from it but once I found something that helped I revisited my old goals and had success. I think one course is going to fail with people who are really stuck and that's where meds can help remove some of the blockers by reducing the intensity.
MyNameIsTerry
24-04-19, 13:44
No not tried that but it can’t stop the thoughts can it?
Nothing can stop thoughts, thoughts are just part of how the brain works. Even if you recover from something like intrusive thoughts it doesn't mean you never have them again. I beat mine and I still have them but they zoom through without a care and come with an intuitive "how stupid" thought riding on the back of them. I've beaten my compulsions but I still get a pull at times but now I just dismiss it as nonsense. If I could beat the rest of my anxiety maybe that goes with it? I don't know. But I am certain substantial reductions can be made whilst still being an active sufferer in different ways.
So, change your views of recovery. It's not about making it all go away, it's about not being bothered by it. Imagine if you are better and a thought comes about your xyz dirty laundry item and your reaction is "who cares" and you go off on your day without any anxiety over it? Wouldn't that be enough?
As for self help, it helps everyone. Much of self help is common sense stuff a therapist covers too.
As for Mindfulness, it can and does help. But it takes practice and time committed to it. Don't expect it to work now, keep doing it for months and see how things change.
Sadly my ocd has been worse today I threw a belt away due to handing my partner a towel because she touched the bin which had a toilet plunger I threw away due to it causing me months of stress.
Also i came out shower and worried my t shirt was dirty so worried about my clothes. Seems a cycle I read online the more you respond to the thoughts the worse they come is this true? I find when it’s bad it’s really bad.
I am being truthful about the doctor refusing me Cbt. If I was lying why would I pay for private Cbt and be £300 worse off?
I can see the point about how bad the ocd is I mean I don’t replace or throw away as much so perhaps I do manage it better but it’s the inbetween anxiety and stress I struggle with.
If you ask me where I need help it’s the stress I have after having these thoughts that’s the bit I find hard the anxiety and negative thoughts.
Unfortunately, the only way to break through the anxiety is to learn to sit with it, and there's no quick and easy fix to help with that.
Unfortunately, the only way to break through the anxiety is to learn to sit with it, and there's no quick and easy fix to help with that.
Yes I mean when something becomes “contaminated” I won’t touch it for example a radiator, I won’t use the strimmer on the bottom of gardens near bins now I worry about the table. Basically I avoid using stuff and certain areas. I still won’t use a phone case that comes through the letter box. It’s avoidance behaviour however sadly this lasts for months or years. I duno how I can get over this
I duno how I can get over this
Real. Life. Professional. Help.
Positive thoughts
https://www.mind.org.uk/information-.../#.XMAi4KTTVPY (https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/obsessive-compulsive-disorder-ocd/self-care-for-ocd/#.XMAi4KTTVPY)
Hi Phil, as listed on this page above OCD Action offer online resources, links to local groups and various things for self-help.
https://www.ocdaction.org.uk/support...31&layers=00BT (https://www.ocdaction.org.uk/support-groups#zoom=5&lat=7175390.82387&lon=-291552.06131&layers=00BT)
OCD Uk have some similar things...
http://www.ocduk.org/support-groups/
Both sites have telephone numbers, you could call and ask for links to self-help resources.
Terry said this........
Phil's psychiatrist actually offered a different form of therapy not long ago and I've asked him about it on here more than once but get no response.
Terry said this........
Yes progressive muscular relaxation some use that was recommending YouTube.
MyNameIsTerry
25-04-19, 02:31
Yes progressive muscular relaxation some use that was recommending YouTube.
That's not what I thought was implied by this...
https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?218851-Therapy-not-working&p=1838064&highlight=applied#post1838064
Yep I mean the type of therapy he discussed was a psychologist to teach relaxation and said YouTube was better. I just don’t think they want to offer Cbt sadly.
I could have a few more private sessions in hope of it working eventually I’m not one for chapping in doctors doors demanding help I’m more reserved that way and don’t like to go
A psychologist is more advanced than anyone we would see in the IAPT network. They have a greater range of therapies to try.
I would imagine it would be something like Applied Relaxation. That's on the list for GAD in NICE guidelines as an alternative to CBT. Someone else on here has had it (we never seem to hear about it down here even though IAPT should be able to provide it) and said it was very helpful to them. She had OCD and she was severe.
PMR isn't something I would regard as needing a psychologist to treat. IAPT just give you a worksheet. There is very little to learn. But AR is a form of therapy that has evolved from this and would be conducted over a similar number of sessions as something like CBT. It's not just about relaxation, it's about learning to change your stress response to a calming one.
So, which did your psychiatrist mean?
That's not what I thought was implied by this...
PMR isn't something I would regard as needing a psychologist to treat. IAPT just give you a worksheet. There is very little to learn. But AR is a form of therapy that has evolved from this and would be conducted over a similar number of sessions as something like CBT. It's not just about relaxation, it's about learning to change your stress response to a calming one.
So, which did your psychiatrist mean?
Well he never told me to see anyone he told me use YouTube. He was happy for me to keep paying for private Cbt if I wanted but wouldn’t put me on nhs list.
But yes how can I deal with items or areas I won’t touch anymore due to the ocd?
But yes how can I deal with items or areas I won’t touch anymore due to the ocd?
Real. Life. Professional. Help.
https://www.mind.org.uk/information-.../#.XMAi4KTTVPY (https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/obsessive-compulsive-disorder-ocd/self-care-for-ocd/#.XMAi4KTTVPY)
Hi Phil, as listed on this page above OCD Action offer online resources, links to local groups and various things for self-help.
https://www.ocdaction.org.uk/support...31&layers=00BT (https://www.ocdaction.org.uk/support-groups#zoom=5&lat=7175390.82387&lon=-291552.06131&layers=00BT)
OCD Uk have some similar things...
http://www.ocduk.org/support-groups/
Both sites have telephone numbers, you could call and ask for links to self-help resources.
Positive thoughts
MyNameIsTerry
25-04-19, 07:48
Well he never told me to see anyone he told me use YouTube. He was happy for me to keep paying for private Cbt if I wanted but wouldn’t put me on nhs list.It's a total cop out for him to say YouTube is better. Not someone who's professional opinion amounts to much in my opinion. What was the point of him dangling a carrot knowing he would never offer it really? A case of NHS doctors trying to dissuade patients from pushing for treatment...
I'm outta your thread Phil. To explain - Its driving me to distraction that you keep ignoring several links I posted to GET HELP, and then ask again and again HOW TO GET HELP or post another ocd theme and ask how to solve it. (I suspect this happens all the time with any therapy or psychiatrist appointment also, you just don't listen or take any action yourself) It has proved to me finally that this is a waste of time me replying here, just as admin wasted their time finding 'help' for you last year, and you didn't take them up on it. Good luck with the wedding Phil, and wishing you a happy marriage and future...I hope one day you somehow find a way to take the first steps needed to solve this, for yourself and also for those loved ones around you.
Today my ocd was bad again I put the wheelie bin out for collection my mum came to the house I was watching her come in the door and despite this i still had a thought she touched the bin maybe some kind of magical thinking going on? She thinks I require more help but sadly I have no funds for more therapy until after the wedding as I still have to buy rings. I have to be careful to find the right therapist as I had 8 sessions before which got me no where. I hate to be blamed for it not working sometimes the sort of therapy doesn’t help for example I wouldn’t do exposure therapy as I don’t agree with the principles of it. I said before I got over my ocd by using relaxation and tackling the anxiety which I find strange but perhaps as ocd is an anxiety condition it can’t sit there when anxiety isn’t present?
I'm outta your thread Phil. To explain - Its driving me to distraction that you keep ignoring several links I posted to GET HELP, and then ask again and again HOW TO GET HELP or post another ocd theme and ask how to solve it. (I suspect this happens all the time with any therapy or psychiatrist appointment also, you just don't listen or take any action yourself) It has proved to me finally that this is a waste of time me replying here, just as admin wasted their time finding 'help' for you last year, and you didn't take them up on it. Good luck with the wedding Phil, and wishing you a happy marriage and future...I hope one day you somehow find a way to take the first steps needed to solve this, for yourself and also for those loved ones around you.
Thanks for your help but I will probably seek more help but with a private therapist but it has to wait a few months until I have funds so I need to try self help until the summer.
But yeah I am on that journey again thinking Someone touched the bin and the germs spread sadly this is how the ocd manifests itself it makes up stories and sometimes no matter what i do the ocd finds a way through its crazy how it does this? I can do so many safety behaviours and still it isn’t enough?
Because safety behaviours only serve validate your irrational beliefs, e.g. that there's something to be bothered about.
I can do so many safety behaviours and still it isn’t enough?
But yes how can I deal with items or areas I won’t touch anymore due to the ocd?
Real. Life. Professional. Help.
https://www.mind.org.uk/information-.../#.XMAi4KTTVPY (https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/obsessive-compulsive-disorder-ocd/self-care-for-ocd/#.XMAi4KTTVPY)
Hi Phil, as listed on this page above OCD Action offer online resources, links to local groups and various things for self-help.
https://www.ocdaction.org.uk/support...31&layers=00BT (https://www.ocdaction.org.uk/support-groups#zoom=5&lat=7175390.82387&lon=-291552.06131&layers=00BT)
OCD Uk have some similar things...
http://www.ocduk.org/support-groups/
Both sites have telephone numbers, you could call and ask for links to self-help resources.
Positive thoughts
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MyNameIsTerry
25-04-19, 14:11
I'm outta your thread Phil. To explain - Its driving me to distraction that you keep ignoring several links I posted to GET HELP, and then ask again and again HOW TO GET HELP or post another ocd theme and ask how to solve it. (I suspect this happens all the time with any therapy or psychiatrist appointment also, you just don't listen or take any action yourself) It has proved to me finally that this is a waste of time me replying here, just as admin wasted their time finding 'help' for you last year, and you didn't take them up on it. Good luck with the wedding Phil, and wishing you a happy marriage and future...I hope one day you somehow find a way to take the first steps needed to solve this, for yourself and also for those loved ones around you.
One of those links is a forum he has even left per the other thread.
I suspect you are right about why things aren't moving forward. I was pleased to see him accessing therapy but I think he has some way to go with his perceptions of what treatment is in mental health terms, a battle probably most of us go through.
The way I see it is that Phil has all his rigid thought patterns and desire for "correctness" to contend with along with his OCD and tolerating therapy would be hard. Maybe his doctors see this too?
The way I see it is that Phil has all his rigid thought patterns and desire for "correctness" to contend with along with his OCD and tolerating therapy would be hard. Maybe his doctors see this too?
If that's the case, then internet forums would be, and obviously are, totally useless for him. Essentially, like many others here, its just a compulsive OCD related behavior and serves no real purpose other than a place to document and vent. Either way, nothing has nor will change.
Positive thoughts
MyNameIsTerry
25-04-19, 17:12
The way I see it is that Phil has all his rigid thought patterns and desire for "correctness" to contend with along with his OCD and tolerating therapy would be hard. Maybe his doctors see this too?A distinct possibility. But he does manage to stop some things so there is hope. Perhaps he struggles understanding external viewpoints? He knows his anxiety isn't ok though.
Because safety behaviours only serve validate your irrational beliefs, e.g. that there's something to be bothered about.
Phil, this is so true. Until you start to ignore these thoughts you’ll get nowhere. You’re so on edge that you’re finding new things to worry about. It’s plain old worry.
Could you try googling rumination, and see if that relates to how you feel?
You need to be able to rationalise and relax. And I think once you can fully believe that your fears are not justified or true, then you can move on.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Let me be clear the Cbt thing on the Nhs years ago I was told the waiting list was too big, then I was told it wasn’t suitable for me and I was told try youtube. I can confirm I did receive some therapy on the nhs at 16 but it was a different system once you get over 18 the lists are longer. It’s not becuase I don’t try to help myself or anything like that becuase I said before the psychiatrist said he’s happy for me to keep seeing the private therapist but they never gave a reason why I couldn’t get nhs other than the above or that he feels there is just as good help on YouTube. That’s the facts so let’s not keep speculating that it’s all my fault. I was told no about 5-7 times so no I shall not keep asking and asking and asking I know some do I respect that people need to see there gp but I was told no I respect that. I did do some free therapy 3 years ago but it never worked as all they did was listen and asked how I felt. After that I did go private 2 years later.
Also let me be clear at the time I had my breakdown 3 years ago I had all the support in the world psychologists, psychiatrists, nurses to help me a home care team so that counts as nhs help? But if you are asking about CBT no the ocd wasn’t as important as having a breakdown and being off work sick. The help I got was to rid me of the anxiety i had
I am quite annoyed I shouldn’t have do justify myself to strangers on a forum. These are private issues and I am not comfortable discussing it but I did in old topic if people wish for search my posts.
Phil, this is so true. Until you start to ignore these thoughts you’ll get nowhere. You’re so on edge that you’re finding new things to worry about. It’s plain old worry.
Could you try googling rumination, and see if that relates to how you feel?
You need to be able to rationalise and relax. And I think once you can fully believe that your fears are not justified or true, then you can move on.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes that’s true but if it was that easy I would be cured right?
Do you have written confirmation of this from your doctors? Regarding the reasons why therapy isn't appropriate for you?
Do you have written confirmation of this from your doctors? Regarding the reasons why therapy isn't appropriate for you?
Usually doctors are just informal chats not written so no. And I was told at GP level to psychiatrist level no CBT surely if I was going to get it I would? I’m in Scotland resources are limited I know they are very reluctant to put people forward for Cbt. Infact fact they offer a support group instead I believe which is like a college course.
Yes that’s true but if it was that easy I would be cured right?
Yes. Have you tried?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes. Have you tried?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I ignore and forget many of the thoughts often as I find a new worry or can’t afford to replace and item.
I am quite annoyed I shouldn’t have do justify myself to strangers on a forum.
Wow! I hope people read this and take it to heart. All the time and advice given over 13 years and that's your response to the people you're asking to help you when they ask to justify your efforts?
ADVICE: Real. Life. Professional. Help.
https://www.mind.org.uk/information-.../#.XMAi4KTTVPY (https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/obsessive-compulsive-disorder-ocd/self-care-for-ocd/#.XMAi4KTTVPY)
Hi Phil, as listed on this page above OCD Action offer online resources, links to local groups and various things for self-help.
https://www.ocdaction.org.uk/support...31&layers=00BT (https://www.ocdaction.org.uk/support-groups#zoom=5&lat=7175390.82387&lon=-291552.06131&layers=00BT)
OCD Uk have some similar things...
http://www.ocduk.org/support-groups/
Both sites have telephone numbers, you could call and ask for links to self-help resources.
Positive thoughts
Wow! I hope people read this and take it to heart. All the time and advice given over 13 years and that's your response to the people you're asking to help you when they ask to justify your efforts?
ADVICE: Real. Life. Professional. Help.
Positive thoughts
No need to repeat I have had real life professional help and it was only two months ago I last seen my therapist I have a wedding in 2 months I do not have any funds to see further help and remember that therapist said I was fine now.
And no I won’t be using that ocd site in the links they locked my topic and silenced me.
Also if anybody checks ocd uk they can see my account was deleted so I was serious about quitting forums.
I'm glad that you are serious about not continuing to use forums to demand answers to all that frustrates and angers you in your life, Phil. No one can provide you with a rulebook about how to rid yourself of OCD because management of anxiety doesn't work in such a clinical and concrete way.
I'm glad that you are serious about not continuing to use forums to demand answers to all that frustrates and angers you in your life, Phil. No one can provide you with a rulebook about how to rid yourself of OCD because management of anxiety doesn't work in such a clinical and concrete way.
Yes I know a few would rather I’m not posting on here or other forums but they don’t have to reply if they feel that way.
MyNameIsTerry
26-04-19, 02:31
Because safety behaviours only serve validate your irrational beliefs, e.g. that there's something to be bothered about.
I've asked a couple of times if he accepts that compulsions are negatives, cycle reinforcers. From what he says I feel he wants the relief of them and when that doesn't come he is more questioning why he can't get the relief which is completely missing the point.
MyNameIsTerry
26-04-19, 02:36
Also let me be clear at the time I had my breakdown 3 years ago I had all the support in the world psychologists, psychiatrists, nurses to help me a home care team so that counts as nhs help? But if you are asking about CBT no the ocd wasn’t as important as having a breakdown and being off work sick. The help I got was to rid me of the anxiety i had
I am quite annoyed I shouldn’t have do justify myself to strangers on a forum. These are private issues and I am not comfortable discussing it but I did in old topic if people wish for search my posts.
Of course you don't need to justify yourself to anyone, no one on here does. Peer support isn't about attaching price tags to support and we aren't your loved ones either. But there is give & take to this, people try to support with good intentions and often whilst dealing with their own anxiety issues.
Whilst you only need discuss what you are comfortable with, and if you draw the line we have to accept that, it tends to help those trying to support you if they understand you. Working on isolated issues isn't going to sort your anxiety, it's firefighting a symptom. Any therapist will want to look at the wider aspects of your mental health and look for roots that need dealing with or they are just papering over cracks.
From my point of view I know it's up to you and you only to find your way, we can only offer guidance. These disorders are very hard to deal with and I expect resistance just as I resisted help years ago. In a Mindfulness book (Professor Mark Williams) he even says you will fail because you are learning a skill and you learn through mistakes. He says this also because he knows the pressure involved in succeeding and how large goals are unhelpful to anxious minds. If you choose not to do xyz that's up to you. Not everything we may say could be relevant or work for you and we have to learn to accept that, professionals have to learn that themselves. Therefore I have no emotional stake in this and once I click the x I'm onto the next person. Friends are obviously a different matter as there is more attachment but for the most part I find it best to treat people as I would in a job, help but don't become too involved.
I have forgotten about the fact she touched the sofa but my rumination has been how the coffee table me is dirty and when I dust that table I am spreading dirty laundry germs to other items so feel awful like my whole house is dirty and ruined?
my whole house is dirty and ruined?
Yes... yes indeed. Replace everything Phil! Or.... Review (https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?209080-Can-anybody-recommend-a-wash-basket) the (https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?224627-False-ocd-thoughts) 13 (https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?217641-Help-blocked-toilet) years (https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?217214-Water-on-bathroom-floor) of (https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?211199-How-to-feel-better-with-cleaning-contamination-issues) threads (https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?131055-OCD-with-toilet-issues-showering) on (https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?178124-Hand-washing-question) this (https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?111634-Throwing-things-away-OCD) and actually take in the advice!
Positive thoughts
I have forgotten about the fact she touched the sofa but my rumination has been how the coffee table me is dirty and when I dust that table I am spreading dirty laundry germs to other items so feel awful like my whole house is dirty and ruined?
Did you read up on rumination? If so, what’s the answer to your worry?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Have you considered moving house?
Alternatively, you could do what others here are suggesting, read the material they've linked you to and tackle the root cause of your anxiety.
Have you considered moving house?
Phil has moved house several times which IMO has contributed to the problem.
Many here know I'm a survivor. I had cancer. It wasn't my cancer, it was the cancer. It was the cancer that affected me and I had to fight it. The cancer was a part of me, literally. It's remnants still remind me of it's residency. I believe mental illness is the same.
Just an observation... I notice you as well as many other members refer to their mental illness as a separate entity. For example... "My OCD makes me do this......" "My HA makes me believe...." etc.
I call BS. Thinking that way takes the responsibility off of the sufferer. Again, IMO, that's not the case. Your mental state and health is as much a part of you as any other physical aspect of your being and you're responsible. HA, OCD, Depression etc. are a part of who and what you are. Taking responsibility for yourself is key in being able to accept who you are and work toward healing.
Positive thoughts
My latest ocd has been name badges at work one went through the washing machine so I wouldn’t use it. Got a new one and still worry as today I had to add a top to the dirty pile and I still had my work t shirt on so I worry the germs spread to the name badge and all my shopping I buy at the supermarket could now have dirty laundry germs on it?
nomorepanic
04-05-19, 21:44
Not possible - this is just the same stuff as every other time Phil
SnowyGreen
05-05-19, 03:15
What are dirty laundry germs?
Anther similar issue today
I cleaned the floor with a cloth on the area the toilet brush and plunger use to be. The toilet brush was new never used but I worry my feet are dirty as the cloth handed in shower the plunger never hit the floor directly only sat on the new brush. Am I spreading germs everywhere?
Am I spreading germs everywhere?
Yep! Everywhere we go there are germs and bacteria. Everything we touch has microscopic germs, bacteria or other organisms. Our bodies produce all sorts of nasties on a daily basis and we spread them everywhere. That's just fact.
Since you can't afford to help yourself, you'll just have to live with it :shrug:
Positive thoughts
nomorepanic
05-05-19, 14:45
Germs won't kill you or harm you in the situations you are describing - you have to learn to accept that and get on with it Phil.
....a world WITHOUT bacteria would be impossible to live in...lets stop calling them germs Phil. That biases things and indicates something that causes diseases. Lets call them bacteria.
https://www.livescience.com/32761-good-bacteria-boost-immune-system.html
What are dirty laundry germs?
(https://www.livescience.com/32761-good-bacteria-boost-immune-system.html)
Phil has had a long fear that his dirty laundry, even though it is clothes he was wearing suddenly becomes contaminated to the point of possibly causing illness.
SnowyGreen
06-05-19, 02:11
Phil has had a long fear that his dirty laundry, even though it is clothes he was wearing suddenly becomes contaminated to the point of possibly causing illness.
Ahh ok, that makes sense. Poor love. At the height of my anxiety I used to fear leaving my food and drink out of sight incase it became contaminated, even at home alone. Thankfully, with time and CBT I overcame that irrational fear.
My partner touched the contaminated area of the drawer then touched my house key my urge is to replace this I really fear these dirty laundry germs will be travelling around with me with everything I touch.
This is what bacteria do, yes, they're always on our skin and the things we touch.
...and.....we need them....
....a world WITHOUT bacteria would be impossible to live in...lets stop calling them germs Phil. That biases things and indicates something that causes diseases. Lets call them bacteria.
https://www.livescience.com/32761-good-bacteria-boost-immune-system.html
(https://www.livescience.com/32761-good-bacteria-boost-immune-system.html)
True but I believe the table is ruined and needs replacing?
Your choice, your money, but any new table you buy will also be covered in bacteria.
Yup, you can't replace the whole world around you Phil, and you can't live in a world without bacteria anyway.
The table isn't ruined, the table is the same table but you are imagining there is a problem with it, something that makes it less than perfect. I know you've not read the linked article I posted, but it tells you why bacteria are needed and so important.
"Germs" will ALWAYS be 10 steps ahead of you, so all this replacing malarkey is futile. It's "perfectionism" as you've admitted yourself many times before, and you have to learn to live with it.
Or you'll always be unhappy and miserable :lac:
nomorepanic
07-05-19, 22:18
True but I believe the table is ruined and needs replacing?
so how can you guarantee 100% the new table won't have germs on it?
we are going round in circles yet again with this
so how can you guarantee 100% the new table won't have germs on it?
we are going round in circles yet again with this
SSDD.... Notice the pattern of making it a reassurance seeking question :lac: Keep in mind that black holes suck in everything and never get enough.
Positive thoughts
nomorepanic
07-05-19, 22:36
This is another case of we can't really help - it is out of our remit and Phil has to take responsibility for his own life now - not that he will
so how can you guarantee 100% the new table won't have germs on it?
we are going round in circles yet again with this
Because it’s unlikely someone with dirty laundry germs touched it and if they did because I never seen it’s ok. I only deal with facts and I know the table is tainted now I will forever feel its dirty.
nomorepanic
07-05-19, 23:00
How do you know that Phil? According to you everyone has germs and everything is contaminated.
Ok replace it then and waste more money
How do you know that Phil? According to you everyone has germs and everything is contaminated.
Ok replace it then and waste more money
I’ve opted to use my partners key and disposed of the key ring as I fear the germs spread. I’ve not replaced the table only because I can’t afford to but it’s tainted now and causes me anxiety I tried anti bacterial wipes but no good. I even have to use a separate duster now
nomorepanic
07-05-19, 23:05
So you are still no further forward with anything then really?
When are you going to start helping yourself?
So you are still no further forward with anything then really?
When are you going to start helping yourself?
I’m not sure I can’t afford anymore Cbt the idea something is forever contaminated is something I have always battled with I fear I may never be able to control it?
venusbluejeans
08-05-19, 00:42
I’m not sure I can’t afford anymore Cbt the idea something is forever contaminated is something I have always battled with I fear I may never be able to control it?
Then contact that charity that i spent all of that time researching and contacting for you....the one that offers help for FREE
but you won't because you refuse to actually do anything to help yourself...... if you wanted to do it and recover from your OCD then you would actually do these things and be willing to try anything to help.
MyNameIsTerry
08-05-19, 01:45
My partner touched the contaminated area of the drawer then touched my house key my urge is to replace this I really fear these dirty laundry germs will be travelling around with me with everything I touch.
Because it’s unlikely someone with dirty laundry germs touched it and if they did because I never seen it’s ok. I only deal with facts and I know the table is tainted now I will forever feel its dirty.
You only deal in facts?
Fact: Your GF touched a table.
Not Fact: She has dirty laundry germs on her.
Not Fact: The table is contaminated.
Not Fact: Cleaning it won't make it clean hence no risk to spread anything, if there is anything to spread.
Not Fact: The table is permanently tainted.
Do you still deal in facts?
You don't deal in facts Phil, you are far far away from facts. If you dealt in facts your mind would be able to work out that there is nothing on the table that is hurtful or dangerous. Bacteria from the skin maybe, a greasy finger print probably, a few skin cells, a bit of dust.....nothing that every single person (yourself included) doesn't encounter perfectly safetly on every home furniture surface every single day.
How about the free information Venus found out for you ? We are yet again going in the same circle, this 13 year NMP circle.
You only deal in facts?
Fact: Your GF touched a table.
Not Fact: She has dirty laundry germs on her.
Not Fact: The table is contaminated.
Not Fact: Cleaning it won't make it clean hence no risk to spread anything, if there is anything to spread.
Not Fact: The table is permanently tainted.
Do you still deal in facts?
Read this Phil, and read it until it sinks in.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Are you worried about getting married, Phil, and having to live with someone who you'll need to monitor constantly in case she "slips up"?
Are you worried about getting married, Phil, and having to live with someone who you'll need to monitor constantly in case she "slips up"?
:yesyes:
I’ve had quite a day of it
My partner placed the key on the area my mum touched so I wouldn’t use her key so I have to get a new key cut then I went to work today there was a poo bag as I stepped off the bus I never stood on it but it was in the middle between my feet so I fear the trousers and shoes are dirty. My ocd wants me to separate the trousers from other ones in case there is a contamination risk.
So yes this table is causing quite the stress so I may replace it when funds become available. The fact she touched dirty laundry and never washed her hands caused me too much anxiety I have these patterns of thinking I am unable to clean something like the windows in my old house only replacing will help. I still won’t accept a phone case via my front door from that ocd fear months ago when I worried an envelope came from the bin.
but yes I think I need some more help with my issues of fearing something is forever contaminated maybe somebody can tell me a time when there house has got dirty and never replaced something I mean my sister had a dog and it pooped everywhere but she never moved but I’m guessing germ issues happen a lot I mean my therapist said to me she knew somebody who’s toilet flooded and they wanted to move but in the end opted to clean it up. The issue something is ruined or tainted seems to be my biggest issue I could bleach it, disinfect do all sorts and still want to replace how can I fix this?
nomorepanic
08-05-19, 22:02
That doesn't explain why you ignore all our advice?
That doesn't explain why you ignore all our advice?
Well it’s not that easy to beat these germ worries
venusbluejeans
08-05-19, 22:56
Well it’s not that easy to beat these germ worries
Maybe not but it is very easy to show some appreciation and be polite to people who are trying to help you.
It would be a lot easier for you to try to beat the germ worries if you took on board the advice you are given and didn't ignore it.... So sorry that is not a reason to ignore people at all...... infact it is probably saying to people who try to help you "hey don't give me any advice because I am not going to listen to it because it is too hard for me and I am not going to try to recover because I can't be bothered to take any advice given"
Taking notice of the advice would actually help not hinder.... hence why NMP exists
MyNameIsTerry
09-05-19, 02:35
You don't deal in facts Phil, you are far far away from facts. If you dealt in facts your mind would be able to work out that there is nothing on the table that is hurtful or dangerous. Bacteria from the skin maybe, a greasy finger print probably, a few skin cells, a bit of dust.....nothing that every single person (yourself included) doesn't encounter perfectly safetly on every home furniture surface every single day.
How about the free information Venus found out for you ? We are yet again going in the same circle, this 13 year NMP circle.
Yep, back to the circle of stating a scenario and asking what to do. The answer is in lots of pages where many have already posted. And when I see someone looking for a completely tailored reply with their own event that matches completely, often an impossibility, I think it's again about perfectionism and seeking reassurance just as many a repetitive poster suggests "anyone else" to get just that one more, then on it goes.
Phil needs to reconsider what he views as facts. His solipsism worries are certainly not based on facts, they are very much based on uncertainty and being unable to accept it.
Read these:
https://www.psychologytools.com/professional/mechanisms/perfectionism/
https://www.psychologytools.com/other-resources/other-resources-perfectionism/
https://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/Resources/Looking-After-Yourself/Perfectionism
Finger firmly on the pulse, a perceptive and enlightening understanding of Phil's condition there Terry !!
Another contamination issue has came up
My parents brought some food over to me and I placed it on the worktop but I fear that area is now contaminated because they touched the wheelie bin and never cleaned there hands this particular wheelie bin she use to empty blocked toilets in this bucket so now the risk is there is blocked toilet germs on my worktop?
Strange that they both touched the wheelie bin on the way in? Are they "testing" you?
Yep, back to the circle of stating a scenario and asking what to do. The answer is in lots of pages where many have already posted. And when I see someone looking for a completely tailored reply with their own event that matches completely, often an impossibility, I think it's again about perfectionism and seeking reassurance just as many a repetitive poster suggests "anyone else" to get just that one more, then on it goes.
Phil needs to reconsider what he views as facts. His solipsism worries are certainly not based on facts, they are very much based on uncertainty and being unable to accept it.
Read these:
https://www.psychologytools.com/professional/mechanisms/perfectionism/
https://www.psychologytools.com/other-resources/other-resources-perfectionism/
https://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/Resources/Looking-After-Yourself/Perfectionism
Have you looked at these Phil?
Strange that they both touched the wheelie bin on the way in? Are they "testing" you?
No they just don’t give a crap about touching bins I lived with her for years. They touched the bin at there house and came here. My worry is she touched the door handle on the way out so my door handle could be dirty I may have to leave via the back door for wedding and stag night?
The reality is I have lived here a year now she visits often how much has she touched the bin maybe loads? It worries me most when I witness it as I believe it’s forever contaminated?
Yep, back to the circle of stating a scenario and asking what to do. The answer is in lots of pages where many have already posted. And when I see someone looking for a completely tailored reply with their own event that matches completely, often an impossibility, I think it's again about perfectionism and seeking reassurance just as many a repetitive poster suggests "anyone else" to get just that one more, then on it goes.
Phil needs to reconsider what he views as facts. His solipsism worries are certainly not based on facts, they are very much based on uncertainty and being unable to accept it.
Read these:
https://www.psychologytools.com/professional/mechanisms/perfectionism/
https://www.psychologytools.com/other-resources/other-resources-perfectionism/
https://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/Resources/Looking-After-Yourself/Perfectionism
You are not dealing with reality, please read the above links
You are not dealing with reality, please read the above links
My door handle is ruined the door was already contaminated but now she touched the wheelie bin those germs have spread when I lock up and touch anything those bin and toilet germs are there
No they just don’t give a crap about touching bins I lived with her for years. They touched the bin at there house and came here. My worry is she touched the door handle on the way out so my door handle could be dirty I may have to leave via the back door for wedding and stag night?
So she told you that she touched the bin at her house before coming to you?
I take it you are dreading your stag night and wedding?
C'mon Phil. This is the SSDD. Seek real life professional help. It's more important than travel.
Positive thoughts
My door handle is ruined the door was already contaminated but now she touched the wheelie bin those germs have spread when I lock up and touch anything those bin and toilet germs are there
None of this is reality, this is your false thoughts
No they just don’t give a crap about touching bins
....as it should be!
So she told you that she touched the bin at her house before coming to you?
I take it you are dreading your stag night and wedding?
No I was there to see her touching the wheelie bin
No I was there to see her touching the wheelie bin
It only matters to you :shrug: There's nothing anyone can say here or on any other forum to help you that hasn't already been said Phil. If 13 years of posts and advice haven't helped then..... Seek real life professional help!
Positive thoughts
It only matters to you :shrug: There's nothing anyone can say here or on any other forum to help you that hasn't already been said Phil. If 13 years of posts and advice haven't helped then..... Seek real life professional help!
Positive thoughts
I have had CBT over 8 seasons I talked about these issues and the reality is I am still suffering. Yes I could seek further help maybe when I can afford to but that doesn’t guarantee I will stop worrying.
The reality is when I leave my house I will now fear the door handle the bin germs toilet germs as she never washed her hands the door handle is ruined
Yep, back to the circle of stating a scenario and asking what to do. The answer is in lots of pages where many have already posted. And when I see someone looking for a completely tailored reply with their own event that matches completely, often an impossibility, I think it's again about perfectionism and seeking reassurance just as many a repetitive poster suggests "anyone else" to get just that one more, then on it goes.
Phil needs to reconsider what he views as facts. His solipsism worries are certainly not based on facts, they are very much based on uncertainty and being unable to accept it.
Read these:
https://www.psychologytools.com/prof...perfectionism/ (https://www.psychologytools.com/professional/mechanisms/perfectionism/)
https://www.psychologytools.com/othe...perfectionism/ (https://www.psychologytools.com/other-resources/other-resources-perfectionism/)
https://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/Res.../Perfectionism (https://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/Resources/Looking-After-Yourself/Perfectionism)
This
This
I did all those thought records in Cbt and it made little odds.
I said months ago I needed a new front door now I do as she has touched dirty wheelie bins
I have had CBT over 8 seasons I talked about these issues and the reality is I am still suffering. Yes I could seek further help maybe when I can afford to but that doesn’t guarantee I will stop worrying.
So look at the links that Venus and Terry have posted for you
Those were Terry's links. :blush: However, there have been many many links to help sites posted on Phil's threads over the last year....if he was to look through the threads they are all there including those of the lovely Venus.
Phil, this is a serious question, when you give us another contamination/perfectionism scenario - what do you think we can do or say that will make any difference?
Those were Terry's links. :blush: However, there have been many many links to help sites posted on Phil's threads over the last year....if he was to look through the threads they are all there including those of the lovely Venus.
Phil, this is a serious question, when you give us another contamination/perfectionism scenario - what do you think we can do or say that will make any difference?
Im not sure really perhaps someone can relate to me or they can help me over come it. I am struggling right now though there are bin germs on my door handle
Yes I could seek further help maybe when I can afford to
Like when you're done traveling? :lac:
Positive thoughts
Like when you're done traveling? :lac:
Positive thoughts
I paid for Cbt whilst travelling a few months back
I paid for Cbt whilst travelling a few months back
Really? I don't recall you ever mentioning it. Still, regardless, its up to you to take personal responsibility and continue to get Real. Life. Professional. Help.
Positive thoughts
Really? I don't recall you ever mentioning it. Still, regardless, its up to you to take personal responsibility and continue to get Real. Life. Professional. Help.
Positive thoughts
The Cbt stopped in February as she said I had improved but things got worse again
venusbluejeans
13-05-19, 00:00
https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by phil06 https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1873379#post1873379)
Yes I could seek further help maybe when I can afford to
Like when you're done traveling? :lac:
Positive thoughts
The thing is I spent a lot of time finding Phil FREE help in his area...... and found him a charity where they will help for FREE. I emailed them and all he had to do was contact them. Phil seems to like to put invisible barriers in his way to getting help. If he really wanted to recover he would....but to be honest i think he is just lazy and likes to blame others for his lack of recovery.
The thing is I spent a lot of time finding Phil FREE help in his area...... and found him a charity where they will help for FREE. I emailed them and all he had to do was contact them. Phil seems to like to put invisible barriers in his way to getting help. If he really wanted to recover he would....but to be honest i think he is just lazy and likes to blame others for his lack of recovery.
Yes they never offered Cbt it was a free meeting to discuss what could help maybe could offer nothing? But since that I did go to Cbt for 8 sessions and it never helped so it’s wrong to say I’m lazy. I got help eventually it never helped comes a time when it’s possible I may not be cured of my ocd?
The fact is the door handle is ruined after she touched that bucket
nomorepanic
13-05-19, 00:10
No it isn't
venusbluejeans
13-05-19, 00:37
Hi Emma,
Thank you for your email and contacting us about your friend. **AMH is the mental health charity in this area and we do have various services, most of which are free of charge.
As I don’t know the history of your friends’ mental health it is difficult for me to recommend a suitable service, however we would be happy to see him for an assessment appointment and support him in whatever way we can. If there are no suitable FDAMH services, then we would be able to signpost or refer him to other relevant services if necessary.
If your friend feels able, we have a service called the Immediate Help Service, which offers a prompt assessment appointment with a member of staff. This would give your friend the opportunity to talk about some of the issues he is facing, and help find a suitable way forward for him. Maybe if you asked him to call the centre to book an appointment that would be helpful?
I hope you have found this information useful, however if you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact me.
Kind regards,
Jane Boyd
Looking at their website i see quite a few things which would help you on there........... In my personal opinion I don't think you contacted them at all
MyNameIsTerry
13-05-19, 01:18
Im not sure really perhaps someone can relate to me or they can help me over come it. I am struggling right now though there are bin germs on my door handle
You will need to be much more specific in this answer. We are all familiar with a lot anxiety has in it's arsenal on this forum so it would be much harder to find someone who didn't understand your issues or to be able to relate to you. Perfectionism issues are found in probably all of us but in some it's more prominent. I can easily think of one member alone who has spend many years dealing with more extreme forms of this in bringing up children with more complex mental health conditions.
MyNameIsTerry
13-05-19, 01:22
Yes they never offered Cbt it was a free meeting to discuss what could help maybe could offer nothing? But since that I did go to Cbt for 8 sessions and it never helped so it’s wrong to say I’m lazy. I got help eventually it never helped comes a time when it’s possible I may not be cured of my ocd?
What did you expect from this? What work on your recovery have you done since this?
The fact is the door handle is ruined after she touched that bucket
No, it isn't. Facts are objective, and this is entirely subjective. This is clear evidence of your faulty thinking patterns, and guess what? It's on you to fix them, not on the rest of the world to accommodate you.
No, it isn't. Facts are objective, and this is entirely subjective. This is clear evidence of your faulty thinking patterns, and guess what? It's on you to fix them, not on the rest of the world to accommodate you.
Yes but little can change my mind because all I see is toilet germs. I mean it was 3 and a half to 4 years ago so I don’t know how many germs still exist but for me that wheelie bin comes under a “forever contaminated” im not sure how I can change this thinking I have asked many times people have reassured me something can be cleaned but I used anti bacterial wipes and I felt no relief the only satisfaction I would get is ripping the door out and buying a new one. Problem is she could be likely to repeat this action of touching the bin.
Midnight-mouse
13-05-19, 08:07
The reality is when I leave my house I will now fear the door handle the bin germs toilet germs as she never washed her hands the door handle is ruined
Okay, I have OCD and I completely understand.
Let’s apply a little logic together, if your mum washed her hands after touching the bin, then that would of been enough to wash the germs away and avoid this situation.
So why don’t you take something like an antibacterial wipe that kills germs and get rid of them now? You can wear disposable gloves and wash your hands afterwards then the germs are gone and nothing is ruined. Roll your sleeves up and take off your watch then you know that nothing touched the area.
As much as this avoids dealing with the root of the issue, as I’m sure you’re aware applying logic like - they do it all the time at their house and nothing bad happens from the germs and that no one else sees the problem and then sitting with the things that make us uncomfortable. This would be more effective long term but to start with it really helped my progress in dealing with my OCD to know that I can problem solve around my issues without complete avoidance (like getting a new door or never using it) this gave me the control back enough to start working on it and making some big progress too!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Can I also just say I have started opening the door with my elbows to avoid touching with my hands
Im not sure really perhaps someone can relate to me or they can help me over come it. I am struggling right now though there are bin germs on my door handle
There is plenty of evidence on your threads which show that you are not willing to listen to or acknowledge any relevant help that is offered on here so it's pointless to claim that you are looking for someone to relate to you and your issues. Your main concern is a need to control the immediate anxiety of the day....now. Therapy won't guarantee you a "cure"..whatever that means to you and I suspect it means no more anxiety on any level which would be unrealistic and impossible/
Can I also just say I have started opening the door with my elbows to avoid touching with my hands
So how do you want people to respond to this? What is the point of telling us this?
Okay, I have OCD and I completely understand.
Let’s apply a little logic together, if your mum washed her hands after touching the bin, then that would of been enough to wash the germs away and avoid this situation.
So why don’t you take something like an antibacterial wipe that kills germs and get rid of them now? You can wear disposable gloves and wash your hands afterwards then the germs are gone and nothing is ruined. Roll your sleeves up and take off your watch then you know that nothing touched the area.
As much as this avoids dealing with the root of the issue, as I’m sure you’re aware applying logic like - they do it all the time at their house and nothing bad happens from the germs and that no one else sees the problem and then sitting with the things that make us uncomfortable. This would be more effective long term but to start with it really helped my progress in dealing with my OCD to know that I can problem solve around my issues without complete avoidance (like getting a new door or never using it) this gave me the control back enough to start working on it and making some big progress too!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes I have been unable to get any relief in using wipes or cleaning for years I’ve battled the urge to replace I am unsure why many said it may be perfectionism and possibly contamination isn’t the root of the problem. Cleaning makes little odds to me yet I don’t expect it to be perfect so I Duno what’s going on it’s become a habit my therapist said I get a buzz from buying new stuff so perhaps there is something going on there? My head treats blocks toilet germs or bin germs like radiation same with dirty laundry I believe once the germs hit everything needs disposed of
So how do you want people to respond to this? What is the point of telling us this?
Well it’s not practical to live like this but when I believe something is “forever contaminated” like hoarders won’t throw stuff away im the opposite because I have regularly gave often new stuff away believing it’s dirty.
MyNameIsTerry
13-05-19, 08:22
Yes I have been unable to get any relief in using wipes or cleaning for years I’ve battled the urge to replace I am unsure why many said it may be perfectionism and possibly contamination isn’t the root of the problem. Cleaning makes little odds to me yet I don’t expect it to be perfect so I Duno what’s going on it’s become a habit my therapist said I get a buzz from buying new stuff so perhaps there is something going on there? My head treats blocks toilet germs or bin germs like radiation same with dirty laundry I believe once the germs hit everything needs disposed of
Because you see something as tainted as opposed to unclean. You do both really but your views on germs aren't logical as you will overlook the fact those elbows you are now using to open a door are touching other things afterwards hence contaminating those.
Remember worrying about the dirty garden strimmer? A tool that cuts grass that's been pooed in by all sorts of wildlife, has soil on it, etc?
You have a need for things to be 100% untainted, an unreasonably high standard that no manufacturer ever reaches unless it's something like medical equipment.
Replacing something is a compulsion so it reassures you just as a medical test might do a HAer. If your therapist thinks your buying might be more impulse related, chasing the high, then that points elsewhere.
You don't expect things to be perfect? So why can't you learn to accept it's not and it not bother you? Maybe someone else can extract the meaning behind this because I'm struggling a bit with tallying that with why you are even worried about it in the first place?
MyNameIsTerry
13-05-19, 08:31
You will need to be much more specific in this answer. We are all familiar with a lot anxiety has in it's arsenal on this forum so it would be much harder to find someone who didn't understand your issues or to be able to relate to you. Perfectionism issues are found in probably all of us but in some it's more prominent. I can easily think of one member alone who has spend many years dealing with more extreme forms of this in bringing up children with more complex mental health conditions.^ any ideas?
Because you see something as tainted as opposed to unclean. You do both really but your views on germs aren't logical as you will overlook the fact those elbows you are now using to open a door are touching other things afterwards hence contaminating those.
Remember worrying about the dirty garden strimmer? A tool that cuts grass that's been pooed in by all sorts of wildlife, has soil on it, etc?
You have a need for things to be 100% untainted, an unreasonably high standard that no manufacturer ever reaches unless it's something like medical equipment.
Replacing something is a compulsion so it reassures you just as a medical test might do a HAer. If your therapist thinks your buying might be more impulse related, chasing the high, then that points elsewhere.
You don't expect things to be perfect? So why can't you learn to accept it's not and it not bother you? Maybe someone else can extract the meaning behind this because I'm struggling a bit with tallying that with why you are even worried about it in the first place?
Yes and sadly i still have to use two strimmers in the garden. Well I don’t expect new standards as such but when I moved here I had no memory of stuff being tainted. Now lots of ocd stuff has happened as I mentioned here last week it was the coffee table now I fear dirty laundry germs. Perhaps other people don’t wash there hands after doing laundry or bins I never have time to survey how common it is. Why do you think the anti bacterial wipes are ineffective for me? Why can’t I clean something that would be easier if I got the relief but the reality is no relief comes from that. Toilet germs bin germs and dirty laundry are my worst nightmare to give you an idea how bad it is I block toilets at my work I work in a shop so I refuse to buy anything from there in case he germs spread. I don’t fear harm from the germs I just can’t live with the anxiety that something dirty laundry germs makes it more dirty than the other shop in the other town
What happens between clothes being clean and taken off your body to make them so awful? Serious question, trying to understand here.
What happens between clothes being clean and taken off your body to make them so awful? Serious question, trying to understand here.
They become tainted have lots of body fluids but often once my head says “they are dirty” I get a tingling feeling and I have the urge to wash my hands. I avoid the clothes touching anything to avoid contamination too
I get you, I think; I have my checking rituals that relate to health anxiety and sometimes I have to give in to them no matter how much I try. I also get pretty antsy if I can't wash my hands when I feel like I need to.
That said, you need to just sit with the tingling and the urges sometimes, accept how they feel and not dwell on them, as the rituals only tend to harm us in the end.
MyNameIsTerry
13-05-19, 08:53
What you've just said is why I started thinking ages ago about it being more about Perfectionism than Contamination. Contamination would have you worrying about the potential outcomes of the germs being there but that's not what I've felt you struggle with, it's more the feeling something isn't right. What you've just said echoes how you've explained it before.
So thinking about my previous post I guess it's not that you know it has to be perfect, consciously you can understand that, but you experience feelings that make you uncomfortable and the item focused on causes irritability, uncomfortable feelings, etc and you can't shake it.
I still think there issues with your perception of the problem/solution just as thoughts are skewed in all of us dealing with anxiety.
Now imagine if you learned to feel those emotions but allowed them to pass through without you adding to them or reacting in such a way as to produce further tension?
Why you don't experience reduction in anxiety through compulsions, I've said before how many of mine didn't provide it for me and actually increased my tension. But I don't think this matters because compulsions need elimination whatever they are. But with the wipes it's a matter of what Mouse said, you do things seen as normal and regardless of whether it helps anxiety or not the rest comes from you in retraining yourself to accept it and that anxiety won't like it but you are enduring it to habituate so anxiety starts to reduce over time.
Yes right now I just see no escape just a further long list of items I believe are contaminated forever. That’s why I get a buzz from replacing but I said recently now replacing never worked for example I had to return items later believing that whole shop was contaminated. It’s like a seed imbedded into me when something is ruined it’s hard to see anything logical or it’s hard to feel happy about that item again. I struggle to change this and yes my ocd has improved in the past but the belief something is ruined has never went away that’s why I fear I may always suffer this fear? I can’t see much documentation about when somebody believes something is off limits forever?
When you're in the middle of it, it always feels as though it's going to be forever.
I was pretty sure for years that I was never going to be able to look at my husband's naked back without a full-on panic attack (he has moles, I'm phobic about melanoma) but I have that one more or less under control now.
I'm seeing a lot of black and white thinking here, but in the real world, absolutes aren't common.
MyNameIsTerry
13-05-19, 09:19
Did you ever read threads made by audi? Very similar problem just in his case it was the watches he liked to collect. The minute he got them the thoughts came about an imperfection. In some cases the watch had a physical imperfection and he was fine buying it with that.. until it arrived. Later on his anxiety spread further into the thoughts coming the minute he hit the buy button. He would feel compelled to send it back or replace it with another one. And I got the impression these were proper expensive bits of kit, submariner style watches. He has some external Contamination style thoughts about them in that the vender might damage them after the sale but such thoughts are just over thinking and "creep" that occurs the more/longer we have a theme running.
MyNameIsTerry
13-05-19, 09:27
When you're in the middle of it, it always feels as though it's going to be forever. I was pretty sure for years that I was never going to be able to look at my husband's naked back without a full-on panic attack (he has moles, I'm phobic about melanoma) but I have that one more or less under control now.I'm seeing a lot of black and white thinking here, but in the real world, absolutes aren't common.Absolutely. I spent over a year walking the same routes daily unable to change anything, looking at the same things on my journey and following the same route around the supermarket. I felt cursed, it was hell. Get out of the cycle and you look back knowing your mind was very negative and low mood was something coming & going a lot too throughout all the anxiety. Did you tell him to always have a shirt & tie on...Hyacinth Bucket style?! :winks:
No, but I'd get very anxious if he wasn't wearing a T-shirt, and I'd do all manner of things to avoid viewing his back if he wasn't shirtless. Maybe two or three times I asked him to cover up, and I don't think I've ever felt more disgusted with myself.
I can't lie, I'm not totally past it yet, but I do at least recognise the situation as a trigger rather than thinking anything is genuinely wrong.
Did you ever read threads made by audi? Very similar problem just in his case it was the watches he liked to collect. The minute he got them the thoughts came about an imperfection. In some cases the watch had a physical imperfection and he was fine buying it with that.. until it arrived. Later on his anxiety spread further into the thoughts coming the minute he hit the buy button. He would feel compelled to send it back or replace it with another one. And I got the impression these were proper expensive bits of kit, submariner style watches. He has some external Contamination style thoughts about them in that the vender might damage them after the sale but such thoughts are just over thinking and "creep" that occurs the more/longer we have a theme running.
Yes I have seen his posts and yes I can relate to what he said
Today I closed the door with my elbows it’s not ideal I mean I guess the idea is I can touch the door handle again one day?
Today I closed the door with my elbows it’s not ideal I mean I guess the idea is I can touch the door handle again one day?
Yeah.....why not just go for some exposure.....? Touch it?!
I may need a new door handle my partner touching it may spread germs
nomorepanic
13-05-19, 12:10
But your partner touches you I assume so those germs are on you already.
Sadly, this and the other forums (where they're not so forgiving and tolerant) are part of your illness. People are really spending a lot of time with some great advice and it does absolutely nothing to help. We're just feeding your dragon and he has a ravenous 13+ year appetite.
Positive thoughts
But your partner touches you I assume so those germs are on you already.
Good point, maybe a change of partner?......errr......:wacko:
Good point, maybe a change of partner?......errr......:wacko:
That's more expensive than buying a new door handle :whistles:
Positive thoughts
So is the tainted issue just related to your own personal things and your own house? Not anybody else's? You could get on a plane and not worry about your seat being tainted by someone else's body? You don't worry about what items your partner is touching when she is away from the house? How on earth do you "trust" her in your house if she's there and you're not? If you lose control over what she's doing on your territory?
My daughter has these issues but they may not apply to you. I take it that you don't have these fears at work with customers? Do you worry about people touching you?
None of this is reality, this is your false thoughts
This.
It’s not real Phil. How about you focus on how kind it was of your Mum to bring you food round. Did you eat the food?
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So is the tainted issue just related to your own personal things and your own house? Not anybody else's? You could get on a plane and not worry about your seat being tainted by someone else's body? You don't worry about what items your partner is touching when she is away from the house? How on earth do you "trust" her in your house if she's there and you're not? If you lose control over what she's doing on your territory?
My daughter has these issues but they may not apply to you. I take it that you don't have these fears at work with customers? Do you worry about people touching you?
Being honest I don’t worry about any of that. If I see something happen that’s when I start to worry so if I see somebody touching a bin that’s when I get the anxiety.
This.
It’s not real Phil. How about you focus on how kind it was of your Mum to bring you food round. Did you eat the food?
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Yeah I mean she claimed she got new wheelie bins after I moved out but I don’t believe her to be honest
Since you've not been able to take on the advice given to you the last 13+ years, what is it that the forum can truly help you with other than it being a place to voice your thoughts?
Positive thoughts
Yeah I mean she claimed she got new wheelie bins after I moved out but I don’t believe her to be honest
Well then you’ll never get anywhere, which is sad.
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Well then you’ll never get anywhere, which is sad.
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I worked out replacing the handle won’t help the door fitter may touch the old one. Same with a new door so I may never be free of these blocked toilet bin germs
MyNameIsTerry
13-05-19, 18:15
I worked out replacing the handle won’t help the door fitter may touch the old one. Same with a new door so I may never be free of these blocked toilet bin germsIf you saw him pick his nose or scratch his bum then touch the handle I take it that would be a problem? But as long as you aren't in the room to see it your intrusive thoughts don't hint at that possibility?
If you saw him pick his nose or scratch his bum then touch the handle I take it that would be a problem? But as long as you aren't in the room to see it your intrusive thoughts don't hint at that possibility?
Yes I am realistic I know the chances are she has touched the bin and my front door on many occasions without washing her hands so these germs could have existed some time ago but when I see it happen that’s when the rumination starts so not sure if that makes it easier to deal with?
If you saw him pick his nose or scratch his bum then touch the handle I take it that would be a problem? But as long as you aren't in the room to see it your intrusive thoughts don't hint at that possibility?
And yes my intrusive thoughts wouldn’t blink an eye lid. If I seen it maybe it would cause some anxiety
nomorepanic
13-05-19, 18:30
Do you actually want to get over this ? If you did you would put 100% effort into it which I can't see you doing.
We are just going round in circles really because only YOU can make the changes and get better.
Do you actually want to get over this ? If you did you would put 100% effort into it which I can't see you doing.
We are just going round in circles really because only YOU can make the changes and get better.
Unless there is a magic wand out there which can make me believe the door handle is clean then it’s not possible is it?
Beliefs can change, but you have to be prepared to interrogate them.
nomorepanic
13-05-19, 19:23
Of course it is - your thinking is skewed and that is what needs fixing.
How do you think I got over panic attacks - blooming long, hard work that's how.
Of course it is - your thinking is skewed and that is what needs fixing.
How do you think I got over panic attacks - blooming long, hard work that's how.
Yes but maybe some people without ocd wash there hands after touching bins so who is to say over coming the ocd would change my thinking.
I admit i it I would be happy to bleach the door handle if I got some relief maybe still ocd but I am not at that stage yet
Yes but maybe some people without ocd wash there hands after touching bins so who is to say over coming the ocd would change my thinking.
I admit i it I would be happy to bleach the door handle if I got some relief maybe still ocd but I am not at that stage yet
So you think it’s not worth trying? I mean what do you have to lose at this stage?
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Again I ask... and it's a serious question. What benefit can you garner from posting other than it being a journal for your thoughts? If you're not willing or able to act on your own behalf and take responsibility, what can the forum do for you?
Positive thoughts
So you think it’s not worth trying? I mean what do you have to lose at this stage?
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But I won’t get any relief from washing it. Replacing it means touching the old one. Ocd is a trapped condition?
Why are you ignoring FMP's question?
Yes Phil, please do answer FMP's question.....and its the same one I asked yesterday I think. WHAT can we do on this forum to make any difference?
Yes Phil, please do answer FMP's question.....and its the same one I asked yesterday I think. WHAT can we do on this forum to make any difference?
I have no idea I said before I like to speak about these issues I don’t expect anybody to wave a wand and say anything to change anything. Perhaps somebody can say something to reassure me I have no idea. But it’s not very pleasant having these issues to deal with
You talk as though you're the only one here who struggles with anxiety.
But it’s not very pleasant having these issues to deal with
NO, I'm sure its not, but we can do nothing to make them go away, only you can. We all have our own issues to deal with Phil, you don't know about them as never find anything out about any of us.
I can see why people on the other forums got to talking harsh exposure 'therapy' with you Phil, and suggested putting your hand down the toilet. Its hard not to get to that point, as every suggestion, every piece of advice, every piece of research done about a variety of therapies, gets nowhere. I was partially joking about going to touch the front door, properly, with your hands. I am honestly thinking it might be the best thing to do with you. Face it head on,stop adding in more avoiding strategies, as you are giving in every single time to the OCD. Every....single.....time. Yes, it might be uncomfortable, but at least it would show you that nothing happens, at least you would have achieved something personally in the fight.
I have no idea I said before I like to speak about these issues I don’t expect anybody to wave a wand and say anything to change anything. Perhaps somebody can say something to reassure me I have no idea. But it’s not very pleasant having these issues to deal with
Thank you for being honest. Its quite apparent this causes you unpleasantness and suffering and its been that way for more than half of your life. I think we all know now that any replies would be detrimental to your mental health and chances of recovery. I truly hope others see that as well.
Positive thoughts
NO, I'm sure its not, but we can do nothing to make them go away, only you can. We all have our own issues to deal with Phil, you don't know about them as never find anything out about any of us.
I can see why people on the other forums got to talking harsh exposure 'therapy' with you Phil, and suggested putting your hand down the toilet. Its hard not to get to that point, as every suggestion, every piece of advice, every piece of research done about a variety of therapies, gets nowhere. I was partially joking about going to touch the front door, properly, with your hands. I am honestly thinking it might be the best thing to do with you. Face it head on,stop adding in more avoiding strategies, as you are giving in every single time to the OCD. Every....single.....time. Yes, it might be uncomfortable, but at least it would show you that nothing happens, at least you would have achieved something personally in the fight.
I would agree no big green aliens jump out if I touch the door handle but what would happen is I worry my phone, wallet my clothes have those germs on them after touching that door handle. I touched the handle tonight but I washed my hands soon after
I touched the handle tonight but I washed my hands soon after
Well, thats a small step, but a good one Phil. Next time leave it longer before washing your hands, and touch something else before doing so ?
I'm outta the thread now. (again lol)
Well, thats a small step, but a good one Phil. Next time leave it longer before washing your hands, and touch something else before doing so ?
I'm outta the thread now. (again lol)
Yes it may be possible to do it longer I duno now this will go
MyNameIsTerry
14-05-19, 01:47
Yes but maybe some people without ocd wash there hands after touching bins so who is to say over coming the ocd would change my thinking.
I admit i it I would be happy to bleach the door handle if I got some relief maybe still ocd but I am not at that stage yet
Having OCD doesn't mean you do everything within the OCD sphere. I don't give a monkey's about Contamination. I don't need reassurance either, a common compulsion. Other than some rumination over life when feeling down I don't do much in that way and think things like Solipsism are as credible as Flat Earth.
If you overcome your themes in OCD then you will return to what is considered normal. You could wash your hands after touching a dirty bin or not, both are acceptable. But whatever you won't feel fear, anxiety or panic over it. It won't bug you, you won't care about it.
MyNameIsTerry
14-05-19, 01:51
Unless there is a magic wand out there which can make me believe the door handle is clean then it’s not possible is it?
That's negative thinking. A door handle will often be inclean because human beings use it, flys land on it, dirt from around the house lands on it...hence the point of cleaning stuff. But that's a million miles away from what you are doing, your skewed perceptions and unrealistic beliefs.
People touch dirty stuff all the time. Ever shake a hand? In more recent years some people have become a bit on the hysterical side about germs but it has been a great boon to the personal cleanliness industry who now get to flog billions of bottles of antibac that sits on desks all day long for some. Even those without anxiety disorders have started doing this and it's becoming a norm in society. Perhaps in future generations people will look back and wonder why our generations weren't all dropping dead of the Black Plague. :shrug:
MyNameIsTerry
14-05-19, 01:55
NO, I'm sure its not, but we can do nothing to make them go away, only you can. We all have our own issues to deal with Phil, you don't know about them as never find anything out about any of us.
I can see why people on the other forums got to talking harsh exposure 'therapy' with you Phil, and suggested putting your hand down the toilet. Its hard not to get to that point, as every suggestion, every piece of advice, every piece of research done about a variety of therapies, gets nowhere. I was partially joking about going to touch the front door, properly, with your hands. I am honestly thinking it might be the best thing to do with you. Face it head on,stop adding in more avoiding strategies, as you are giving in every single time to the OCD. Every....single.....time. Yes, it might be uncomfortable, but at least it would show you that nothing happens, at least you would have achieved something personally in the fight.
I think that was a bit unrealistic anyway for most OCDers. In therapy they wouldn't be telling people to do that without spending time working towards it. Older "flooding" techniques are less used these days because they are less efficient than more modern ERP style forms. I saw that as bad advice to phil when he mentioned it and OCD UK should know that...ERP is the standard first line treatment and an action like that would sit right at the top of a hierarchy, a final step which means doing someone that is not normally done by the non anxious to push you beyond the goal itself (Seen this mentioned in medical literature as a criticism of why ERP fails because therapists don't take that final step beyond).
MyNameIsTerry
14-05-19, 01:56
Well, thats a small step, but a good one Phil. Next time leave it longer before washing your hands, and touch something else before doing so ?
I'm outta the thread now. (again lol)
Agreed. You tried so you see you can do things but you have to force yourself to confront your fears.
MyNameIsTerry
14-05-19, 02:04
But I won’t get any relief from washing it. Replacing it means touching the old one. Ocd is a trapped condition?
You talk as though you're the only one here who struggles with anxiety.
Iris is right, that's negative thinking.
I've asked you before about what you want and you didn't reply. You have just replied with the same, reassurance. But I have asked you several times across threads if you are willing to accept compulsion is a negative in OCD, an OCD 1-0-1 of how these conditions work. You have stopped replacing before stopped wiping your bum getting out of the shower midway so don't you see you must somehow know this? I feel you are in a stage where you can't accept what OCD is and why you are self sabotaging yourself because it is easier to go along with compulsions. We all go through this in our own ways, some get stuck, but you have to put the work in to consciously decide what you want to believe. Until you do, you can't move forward much.
As for it being a trapped condition, you do know you aren't the only one on here with it don't you? And on OCD UK. How many of us have made improvements to our lives? Iris said before about being in that mindset, I agree from my own experience, and you need to try to accept that the it is a possibility you can recover. Try not to be as negative about it all even though it is a horrible experience. Negative thinking will only continue to trap you and this should have been part of your therapy. You need to spend more time reading about OCD, as in reading about how it works and what to do, not so much user stories which are less factual and more likely a way to seek reassurance.
And I get the impression you want that perfect person to join to say they have the same down the tiny details. That's just another perfectionist, All-or-nothing thinking and reassurance seeking issue. We could all just reply to your threads with a perfect example matching yours to give you 100% reassurance...and it would just be prolonging your disorder and lying to you. You would only question why things didn't improve anyway as it's the dance of the Doubter's Disease, as it used to be termed.
Older "flooding" techniques are less used these days because they are less efficient than more modern ERP style forms
Can I clarify Terry, I hadn't clearly identified that the toilet example was someone being asked to push themselves beyond what normal people would do. I was actually trying to use a bad example about exposure and it was a bad example as it wasn't something people generally do, I should have just said to touch the handle lol You are probably entirely correct Terry, infact I don't doubt it; but if said OP isn't doing anything AT ALL, isn't accessing anything, isn't reading up on anything and isn't taking any action themselves to follow any of the links or adive......then one wonders if they got to point of desperation in the 'flooding idea'. They had been through everything and anything for years....and then got to the old methods.
ANyway, I was actually trying to refer to challenging, exposure and desensitisation to fears. Personally (in my 30s), I had contamination issues relating to food, which I've talked about on here before. I dealt with it myself by UNCOMFORTABLY challenging myself to take small steps to return to a normal pattern. I exposed myself, so to speak (and dont you DARE LOL we are already in trouble about that other thread...:roflmao:) . I still have some checking rituals that appear from time to time, I blat them the same way. Yes, you have to have motivation, the will and strength to deal with some discomfort and create your own set of rules and boundaries. I don't know what 'floodingi is , I'm personally talking about gradual kind of desensitisation to the issue, small stages to return to normal patterns.
Its exactly as you said here
You tried so you see you can do things but you have to force yourself to confront your fears.
Phil needs to force himself to confront his fears, and maybe a set pattern of exposure type of steps might work ?!
I found exposure therapy hard she wanted me to touch a bin without washing my hands so I’m therapy I never got round to doing that. Relaxation and removing my anxiety seems to have a better effect at cutting down my ocd. I mentioned before even without my ocd I believe I’d still want to wash my hands. I have a stag night and wedding soon I look forward to neither now as I feel doomed by the front door.
The crazy thing is I let her come into the house as I never wanted to touch the food in fear of the bin germs. So I put it on the worktop and I was worried about how that area would be contaminated I was so consumed by that I never caught onto her closing my front door so basically I find alot of my ocd comes later if that makes sense? As an after thought for some reason I never thought before hand same with her touching dirty washing then my coffee table. So it seems my ocd response is often delayed why is this?
The reality yes she may have got new bins, if not how dirty would the bin be after almost 4 years. I often believe something is forever contaminated. I explained if I don’t witness the ocd issue I won’t worry as much. So given it’s a delayed response and when I don’t see it happen how can I tackle this better? Ideally without exposure therapy
MyNameIsTerry
14-05-19, 08:43
Carys, I wouldn't dream of commenting on you, food and exposure. The 9 & Half Weeks Plan? :whistles: We are in agreement over the example, I understand what you mean and your advice to touch that door is spot on and nothing like the toilet one someone gave him elsewhere. He has to go through that door so it's impractical not to push for a more direct exposure. The older flooding stuff was probably more for phobias hence why we still see them on TV programmes (spiders, buttons, etc). There are other kinds of exposure too but they all boil down to the same thing and that's motivation as you say. I suspect Phil might need someone to keep pushing him to achieve goals and hopefully his partner will eventually start to get more involved in this. It's much harder to back out of commitments when you feel you let someone else down in the process, at least that's what I've found and seen in many on here.
Carys, I wouldn't dream of commenting on you, food and exposure. The 9 & Half Weeks Plan? :whistles: We are in agreement over the example, I understand what you mean and your advice to touch that door is spot on and nothing like the toilet one someone gave him elsewhere. He has to go through that door so it's impractical not to push for a more direct exposure. The older flooding stuff was probably more for phobias hence why we still see them on TV programmes (spiders, buttons, etc). There are other kinds of exposure too but they all boil down to the same thing and that's motivation as you say. I suspect Phil might need someone to keep pushing him to achieve goals and hopefully his partner will eventually start to get more involved in this. It's much harder to back out of commitments when you feel you let someone else down in the process, at least that's what I've found and seen in many on here.
But touching that door is like touching that bin every time. I said before she could have touched the bin without me knowing many times but I worry because I seen it happen and germs could spread
I have told myself after I disinfect the door further I may touch it then my phone but I will feel anxious. When I visit my parents house her door is very dirty she picks up dog poo opens doors and probably touches bins and opens doors so her door handle is dirty I started washing my hands as soon as I visit now though but I never use to
Phil, you need to work on your compulsions. In the long run, they only lock you tighter into the OCD.
Phil, you need to work on your compulsions. In the long run, they only lock you tighter into the OCD.
For years I’ve believed the only way to get rid is to some how tolerate toilet germs and dirty laundry I have so far been unable to do this so maybe that’s why I am stuck.
It's willpower, pure and simple. It's sitting with the bad feelings and accepting them even when they feel unbearable.
It is WILL POWER. It is hard, but you can't give in every time. You mention that someone worked with you on 'exposure therapy' but you 'found it hard' - YEP, of course it is !
Yes but by touching the door it means those germs move to other stuff I may worry about other stuff?
MyNameIsTerry
14-05-19, 09:10
But touching that door is like touching that bin every time. I said before she could have touched the bin without me knowing many times but I worry because I seen it happen and germs could spreadExposure work could have you spending longer touching the bin, resisting cleaning afterwards, putting your hands in your mouth or eating without washing, etc. It builds up. Since you don't want to do exposure, and yes it's hard for all of us as that's why we are struggling with anxiety in the first place, you could look more towards working on relaxation in your reactions such as Applied Relaxation, Mindfulness, etc which we've mentioned plenty of times before. And that question about things coming to you later not only tells us it's more than things you have physical seen and that there is a likelihood of intrusive thoughts...and these mean learning not to react, elimination of compulsions, heading off negative thinking patterns and obsessing...and ll things we have mentioned. You need to invest some time into reading about OCD, this is pretty common stuff.
MyNameIsTerry
14-05-19, 09:13
Yes but by touching the door it means those germs move to other stuff I may worry about other stuff?Yes, you may. Therapy is hard. But exposure isn't just about that one item, it's teaching you to tolerate anxiety/panic feelings. These translate over into other areas where exposure becomes easier in general.
I was rushing for work today and my partner locked me in so I had to touch the door quickly to make my bus to work and I had to touch my phone so the result is I believe the germs have spread to the phone now! It’s hard to not touch a door handle sadly
WHAT can we do on this forum to make any difference?
I have no idea..... I don’t expect anybody to wave a wand and say anything to change anything. Perhaps somebody can say something to reassure me
:shrug:
Positive thoughts
Now I touched my phone and the door handle the germs will spread everything is ruined
venusbluejeans
14-05-19, 11:18
Your Fiancee seems very tolerant, she must really love you.
Now I touched my phone and the door handle the germs will spread everything is ruined
In what way is everything ruined? What counts as everything, anyway?
You have to keep on interrogating your beliefs so that you can acknowledge their irrationality.
If i touch my phone it means everything is forever contaminated spreading new germs
What's everything, though? And how long is forever?
If you want to recover, you need to work on your self-awareness.
What's everything, though? And how long is forever?
If you want to recover, you need to work on your self-awareness.
until I replace everything? My hands feel dirty and I feel anxious touching the handle makes it worse
One time my mum touched dog poo I believe she tried my door and I was out for some reason I forgot that one more quickly
So I could have been contaminating everything got months due to her
Wouldn't you like to reach a point where you don't have these compulsions? Wouldn't it be worth sitting on your discomfort for a while?
I fear this may be worse than the window fitter touching dirty laundry abs now I will want to move house again.
nomorepanic
14-05-19, 13:14
Phil you are being ridiculous now.
I feel my life is doomed I can’t enjoy my wedding due to these germs
nomorepanic
14-05-19, 14:53
cancel it then.
It's willpower, pure and simple. It's sitting with the bad feelings and accepting them even when they feel unbearable.
This is brilliant. It’s exactly that.
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I feel my life is doomed I can’t enjoy my wedding due to these germs
I’m so sorry that you feel like this. It’s heartbreaking that nothing anyone says gets through. Terry spends hours writing brilliant posts to you, so does Carys. You have had so much helpful advice and you choose not to take it or think seriously about it.
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You have had so much helpful advice and you choose not to take it or think seriously about it.
This is the point I've been trying to get across. 13+ years of helpful advice. 30 pages of threads. By his post history, more than half his life suffering with various manifestations of mental illness. Not only that but practically no participation in helping others or direct replies and active engaged participation of posts made on his own threads.
By Phil's own admission, he's seeking reassurance and we all know the deal with that. On this forum and others, there will always be someone to feed the dragon... always. I get that people reply with the hope that there will be an "Ah Ha" moment but the reality is there are some (several currently on the boards) that never will recover nor make an effort and/or are unable to do so.
Positive thoughts
Yep it’s very difficult I fear I may never recover.
But I can’t see how much can make me suddenly believe those bin and toilet germs are clean. Fact is she touched the bin so like when the window fitter touched dirty laundry it’s forever contaminated. That front door needs replacing and everything I have touched after that door.
People said touch the door? I did but only as I was in a rush but it’s made me feel ten times worse so nobody won touching me that door? Exposure doesn’t work that’s a fact never has for me
I think you're right. I don't think you will recover, because you've cocooned yourself in your OCD and some part of you doesn't want to get better.
MyNameIsTerry
14-05-19, 18:21
Yep it’s very difficult I fear I may never recover.But I can’t see how much can make me suddenly believe those bin and toilet germs are clean. Fact is she touched the bin so like when the window fitter touched dirty laundry it’s forever contaminated. That front door needs replacing and everything I have touched after that door. People said touch the door? I did but only as I was in a rush but it’s made me feel ten times worse so nobody won touching me that door? Exposure doesn’t work that’s a fact never has for meI would suggest you reread previous pages as all of this has been answered. And thanks for your kind words, Scass :flowers:
Yes I can reread over it but I am struggling to understand why people are not worried about the bin germs or the fact that bin could have contained blocked toilet bin bags of toilet paper, toilet water and so on. In my mind I treat these as forever contaminated and that no cleaning will do any good. Nobody has really explained to me why I am in this forever contaminated group why does my mind think this way and why does it not bother other people? It may help me understand more but it’s difficult because it’s imbedded into me these thoughts it’s hard for me to suddenly think that bin maybe isn’t as harmful as made out. I mean I put a plunger in my own green no it also had fragments of toilet paper and toilet water so I admit those germs already exist in my back garden these are the same germs. Had my partner not washed her hands I would think the exact same but I argue not everybody has to put dirty toilet water germs in there wheelie bin, some people’s bins are cleaner.
So what’s the deal someone said perfectionism? Is that really the reason for believing something is forever contaminated? Why do I get contradictory situations where I care less? Like when I believe she touched dog poo and tried my front door? I would generally see those germs the same as blocked toilet germs.
Perhaps its more more common than I think maybe people bin there old toilet brushes? I have been to public toilets which have been blocked so perhaps these germs exist more commonly than I think? What are people’s view on that?
venusbluejeans
14-05-19, 18:53
The real reason is because you have contamination OCD which you need to address
The real reason is because you have contamination OCD which you need to address
Yes I plan to seek more therapy after the wedding which is a matter of weeks away now. After that I will have more free funds to pay someone else.
But yes the chances are 99.9% certain the doors in my parents house have been touched by the same bins and I have touched my phone. This doesn’t trouble me what troubles me is me touching my own door handle and it being dirty but it’s very difficult to control who touched a front door
Exposure doesn’t work that’s a fact never has for me
Nothing 'works for you' Phil; any manner of therapy, cbt sheets, links to websites, advice, assistance, examples, explaining. You don't read any books, read any websites or try and understand approaches to dealing with OCD. After 13 years you should know the facts inside out and back to front, but it is clear from the question you are asking that you've looked at nothing relevant that has been offered here. This isn't about 'nothing working', this is about you not putting the effort in to make it work. Sorry, but thats where I am on this now.
BTW - You don't actually DO exposure PROPERLY. You expect it to feel like some sort of magic wand, it is uncomfortable and unpleasant and HARD WORK.....but bit by bit, step by step you can start challenging and accepting.
venusbluejeans
14-05-19, 19:32
I was replying to your questions in this post....not on about when or even if you are going to seek help..... let me answer it more clearly...
Yes I can reread over it but I am struggling to understand why people are not worried about the bin germs or the fact that bin could have contained blocked toilet bin bags of toilet paper, toilet water and so on. (Because we do not suffer from contamination OCD) In my mind I treat these as forever contaminated and that no cleaning will do any good. (Because you have contamination OCD) Nobody has really explained to me why I am in this forever contaminated group why does my mind think this way and why does it not bother other people? (Because you have contamination OCD) It may help me understand more but it’s difficult because it’s imbedded into me these thoughts it’s hard for me to suddenly think that bin maybe isn’t as harmful as made out. I mean I put a plunger in my own green no it also had fragments of toilet paper and toilet water so I admit those germs already exist in my back garden these are the same germs. Had my partner not washed her hands I would think the exact same but I argue not everybody has to put dirty toilet water germs in there wheelie bin, some people’s bins are cleaner.
So what’s the deal someone said perfectionism? Is that really the reason for believing something is forever contaminated? (Because you have contamination OCD) Why do I get contradictory situations where I care less? (Because you have contamination OCD) Like when I believe she touched dog poo and tried my front door? I would generally see those germs the same as blocked toilet germs. (Because you have contamination OCD)
Perhaps its more more common than I think maybe people bin there old toilet brushes? (I don't even have a toilet brush, I use toilet duck and then wipe round with a cloth) I have been to public toilets which have been blocked so perhaps these germs exist more commonly than I think? What are people’s view on that? (you have contamination OCD germs are everywhere your OCD is making your thoughts as they are)
OH and touching the wheelie bin and not washing my hands - yep, ALL THE TIME, every single day. Doesn't bother me AT ALL.
You keep asking questions ; how to solve this ? What does this mean ? Why does this happen and that happen? The answer is the same for everything you ask - you have a mental health problem.
I keep saying I'm leaving this thread, and keep coming back. Arrrrgghhhh. Off to reply to someone who reads what is written.....
OH and touching the wheelie bin and not washing my hands - yep, ALL THE TIME, every single day. Doesn't bother me AT ALL.
You keep asking questions ; how to solve this ? What does this mean ? Why does this happen and that happen? The answer is the same for everything you ask - you have a mental health problem.
I keep saying I'm leaving this thread, and keep coming back. Arrrrgghhhh. Off to reply to someone who reads what is written.....
Yes I mean If I could see what goes on with people’s hands yes I work in retail I defo wouldn’t wanna touch there hands.
But i have learned these responses over years so it’s hard to not respond to them. And yes I am already suffering with these exposures I touched the handle and feel awful like the world has ended and that the germs have spread.
I have only been in this house a year and I have a massive list of areas i won’t touch I shall do a list:
*The radiator (because a clean wash wash there when a dirty one passed through the kitchen)
*The coffee table (because she touched dirty laundry and never washed her hands)
*The letter box (Because I had a thought that she took an envelope from the bin so I won’t use any phone cases that come via the letter box as I carry the phone round with me
*The door handle (Because she touched dog poo and more recently the wheelie bin)
*The bathroom floor (as dirty washing goes there)
*The bottom of the garden ( as bins go there I use two strimmers)
*The cold tap and the sink cupboard handle (as a plumber touched the toilet when he replaced the flusher and touched those handles)
*The sofa (as she touched dirty laundry)
*The spare bedroom floor (as my partners sister stayed and put dirty laundry there)
*The spare bed (as I use to put dirty laundry on it so I won’t sit on it)
*Various house keys and work badges as they went near dirty laundry
*The area in the bathroom where the toilet plunger use to sit is now dirty
*The work top as my mum our food on it after touching bins
*The area of the shower basin because I used a cloth which touched the bathroom floor where the plunger use to sit
*The loft was some stuff use to be from my old house at my parents and the suitcases I walked past the bins.
*Various floor mops replaced
*The hoovers (as I had thoughts I touched the plunger) or they went close to dirty washing.
My partners parents house is off limits as I also blocked a toilet he also used a carrier bag to remove the toilet roll I have never used that bathroom since and I worry about taking my shopping over to that house.
Similar issues at my parents I use to block toilets and at work so I won’t buy from my work or I won’t take much over to my parents in fear of these blocked toilet germs.
Perhaps that explains more about the frequent battles with my contamination
Perhaps that explains more about the frequent battles with my contamination
We know about your battles Phil, the listing is unnecessary. All that list tells us is that you have contamination OCD, which we and YOU already know.
I want those following to take note of a very prominent word in almost all responses on this thread and almost all the others going back 13+ years.
but for me
but it can’t
but sadly
Thanks for your help but
But yeah
but it never
but they don’t
True but I believe
but yes I think
but that doesn’t
But since that
but I used
but when I
but often
but I said
but the belief
but when I see
Yes but maybe
But I won’t get
But it’s not
but what would happen
But touching that door
but I will feel
Yes but by touching
But I can’t see how
but only
but I am struggling
But yes the chances
But i have learned
That speaks volumes
Positive thoughts
I want those following to take note of a very prominent word in almost all responses on this thread and almost all the others going back 13+ years.
but for me
but it can’t
but sadly
Thanks for your help but
But yeah
but it never
but they don’t
True but I believe
but yes I think
but that doesn’t
But since that
but I used
but when I
but often
but I said
but the belief
but when I see
Yes but maybe
But I won’t get
But it’s not
but what would happen
But touching that door
but I will feel
Yes but by touching
But I can’t see how
but only
but I am struggling
But yes the chances
But i have learned
That speaks volumes
Positive thoughts
Yes you are always critical you say why don’t I take advice well it doesn’t help when you are always there saying I don’t take it. Never anything positive to say
venusbluejeans
14-05-19, 20:23
Yes you are always critical you say why don’t I take advice well it doesn’t help when you are always there saying I don’t take it. Never anything positive to say
He says it because it is true, he says it because you cannot and will not take responsibility for your illness... and to be honest I would say the comments are completely positive...... a positive way in which you can help yourself and a positive way in which you should be looking at your illness.
Yes you are always critical you say why don’t I take advice well it doesn’t help when you are always there saying I don’t take it. Never anything positive to say
I've been very supportive in the past. One need only look at my replies dating back to when I joined. Yes I'm very critical now. Why? First and foremost its the truth and the reality. Yes, I'm direct and to the point, very little tea and sympathy when I see no effort is being made. Secondly, this is a waste of everyone's time and good intentions. So many have spent so much time and effort to help but for what and why? Look back at your history (ohhh wait..."Yes I can reread over it but") I point out the flaws in your thinking on the premise of you acknowledging them (which you never do) and actually doing something about it (which will never happen) Also, for the hope that members recognize the futility, the replies stop, your dragon starves and you're forced to do something!
Why post here if you as you said... "Yep it’s very difficult I fear I may never recover.... But I can’t see how much can make me suddenly believe those bin and toilet germs are clean. " That's just it. We can't. No one can but YOU!
You said in a previous post you were thinking of giving up forums altogether. That's something you should give some serious thought to.
As always.....
Positive thoughts
Well, I've realised the futility.
I've been very supportive in the past. One need only look at my replies dating back to when I joined. Yes I'm very critical now. Why? First and foremost its the truth and the reality. Yes, I'm direct and to the point, very little tea and sympathy when I see no effort is being made. Secondly, this is a waste of everyone's time and good intentions. So many have spent so much time and effort to help but for what and why? Look back at your history (ohhh wait..."Yes I can reread over it but") I point out the flaws in your thinking on the premise of you acknowledging them (which you never do) and actually doing something about it (which will never happen) Also, for the hope that members recognize the futility, the replies stop, your dragon starves and you're forced to do something!
Why post here if you as you said... "Yep it’s very difficult I fear I may never recover.... But I can’t see how much can make me suddenly believe those bin and toilet germs are clean. " That's just it. We can't. No one can but YOU!
You said in a previous post you were thinking of giving up forums altogether. That's something you should give some serious thought to.
As always.....
Positive thoughts
Yes as people don’t want to read it and I continue to suffer so nobody wins surely it’s better I quit these forums healthy and because I no longer need the support than go away silenced like I was over on the other ocd forum, forced to quit and feeling alone and isolated by my suffering. You have a similar attitude to those over on the ocd forum which is fine but nobody forces you to reply if you don’t like my posts.
You're the one isolating yourself with your suffering, though, by refusing to take action. I can only imagine how upsetting it must be for the people on here you've ignored and berated for over a decade.
You're the one isolating yourself with your suffering, though, by refusing to take action. I can only imagine how upsetting it must be for the people on here you've ignored and berated for over a decade.
I have ignored nobody. Nobody here is qualified to cure me so is it any wonder im not better?
Tonight I have suddenly felt sick and had to delay having my dinner I believe it’s the ocd making me feel this way
Nobody here is qualified to cure me so is it any wonder im not better?
Oooooooooooo, now we hear the true Phil coming out. I am literally speechless. No, I'm not speechless......blaming others again, as usual, not accepting responsibility again, as usual. YOU ARE NOT BETTER BECAUSE YOU REFUSE TO TAKE ANY ACTION YOURSELF. Oh for crying out loud, i'm done.
Oooooooooooo, now we hear the true Phil coming out. I am literally speechless. No, I'm not speechless......blaming other again, as usual, not accepting responsibility again, as usual. YOU ARE NOT BETTER BECAUSE YOU REFUSE TO TAKE ANY ACTION YOURSELF. Oh for crying out loud, i'm done.
I did I was told exposure and touch the door handle I did but not because I wanted to but by accident and now I feel ill. So it seems not working if exposure therapy makes you feel ill and it’s made me worry all day and it’s made my worry ten times worse how can I possibly have faith in it? Replacing that door handle could have saved me the grief
venusbluejeans
14-05-19, 21:08
I have ignored nobody. Nobody here is qualified to cure me so is it any wonder im not better?
Just wow!! you ignore everyone... 99% of the comments which are on your threads are ignored by you..
you refuse to take ownership of your illness and you blame everyone else for your faliure to recover apart from the person who should be blamed and that is you.
I think I am going to close this thread shortly and you will then accuse the admins of trying to silence you..... that won't be the case, it will be because you refuse to take any advice and there is really no point in us posting on here trying to help you as you don't listen to any of it and just blame people trying to help!
If you feel that way my advice would be to do something which we have been advising for a long time.... Stop posting on here go get some real help! after all no one can cure you on here as we aren't qualified!!
The only person qualified to 'cure' you isYOU
Just wow!! you ignore everyone... 99% of the comments which are on your threads are ignored by you..
you refuse to take ownership of your illness and you blame everyone else for your faliure to recover apart from the person who should be blamed and that is you.
I think I am going to close this thread shortly and you will then accuse the admins of trying to silence you..... that won't be the case, it will be because you refuse to take any advice and there is really no point in us posting on here trying to help you as obviously we are not qualified to help you..... if you feel that way my advice would be to do something which we have been advising for a long time.... go get some real help!
I already explained do you money is tight I have no funds for further CBT until after the wedding
and ok I shall post elsewhere as clearly like ocd forums you don’t want me to post here. You can’t force people to miracly better I am clearly finding it difficult otherwise I wouldn’t be here
It's always all about you, Phil. That's the problem. No one else matters but you and your suffering.
It's not a great way to approach the start of married life.
venusbluejeans
14-05-19, 21:24
*****disclaimer, no one on nmp has ever said they are qualified to cure people from their illness. Nmp is a platform to ask and give advice about mental health problems..... Not a platform to give out miracle cures.... You have to be willing to help yourself to 'cure' yourself****
The issue is I have no funds for further CBT right now. It’s £40 per session sometimes more. I’m already broke
*****disclaimer, no one on nmp has ever said they are qualified to cure people from their illness. Nmp is a platform to ask and give advice about mental health problems..... Not a platform to give out miracle cures.... You have to be willing to help yourself to 'cure' yourself****
What advice do you expect me to take? I said how I feel I listened but I still believe the door handle is dirty so not much I can do it’s going to take more help
venusbluejeans
14-05-19, 21:28
The charity i pointed you towards helps for FREE.... stop making excuses.
I am closing your thread now... up to you what you do next.
just so other members know..... this is not to silence Phil as he can obviously start a new thread.... but to save other members sanity and to stop arguments that we could all do without.
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