View Full Version : Raised Anxiety after starting Ven
Hi, been on the Mirt forum for some time as on 30mg per day. Recent problems got dr to start me on 75mg of Ven which I started last week so I'm 4 days on Ven now. Noticed that my Anxiety has been worse and I kind of feel wired, on edge only feeling calm come evening. Still on Mirt but I think the plan is to come off that once Ven gets into my system. I guess im asking in general, how long this raised anxiety lasts as I have a habit of panicking when it comes to med changes and have stopped taking them before due to startup side affects. Want to give this new drug a chance so is it like Mirt where it can take a month or so to start to work.
Thanks
panic_down_under
15-07-19, 12:44
I guess im asking in general, how long this raised anxiety lasts
Unfortunately, this is one of those how long is a piece of string questions which can only be answered with, it depends.
The problem is despite the common myths that serotonin is a *'feel good' neurotransmitter and ADs work by raising brain serotonin levels, the opposite is true in both cases. Serotonergic ADs like venlafaxine do trigger an immediate increase in synaptic and general brain serotonin levels from the very first dose which is what triggers most of the unpleasant side-effects. But after a few weeks (http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=193671) they force a significant down-regulation of serotonin synthesis and expression in regions of the brain linked to anxiety and depression. However, the process can revert for a while following dose increases, though side-effects severity tends to be less each time.
*neurotransmitters don't have an intrinsic property, their action is determined by the receptors they bind to, not the neurotransmitter itself.
have stopped taking them before due to startup side affects
Speak to the prescribing doctor if they become intolerable. There are ways of minimizing them with meds such as mirtazapine, the benzodiazepines (if you can get a script), or milder anxiolytics such a hydroxyzine, etc.
Want to give this new drug a chance so is it like Mirt where it can take a month or so to start to work.
Most antidepressants take 4-12 weeks to kick-in from when a therapeutic dose is first taken. They work by stimulating the growth (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC60045) of new brain cells in the hippocampal regions of the brain and it is the new cells and the interconnections they forge which produces the therapeutic response, not the ADs directly. Mirtazapine appears to become effective sooner for anxiety because of the sedation. It is more a sedating antihistamine than antidepressant.
Unfortunately, this is one of those how long is a piece of string questions which can only be answered with, it depends.
The problem is despite the common myths that serotonin is a *'feel good' neurotransmitter and ADs work by raising brain serotonin levels, the opposite is true in both cases. Serotonergic ADs like venlafaxine do trigger an immediate increase in synaptic and general brain serotonin levels from the very first dose which is what triggers most of the unpleasant side-effects. But after a few weeks (http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=193671) they force a significant down-regulation of serotonin synthesis and expression in regions of the brain linked to anxiety and depression. However, the process can revert for a while following dose increases, though side-effects severity tends to be less each time.
*neurotransmitters don't have an intrinsic property, their action is determined by the receptors they bind to, not the neurotransmitter itself.
Speak to the prescribing doctor if they become intolerable. There are ways of minimizing them with meds such as mirtazapine, the benzodiazepines (if you can get a script), or milder anxiolytics such a hydroxyzine, etc.
Most antidepressants take 4-12 weeks to kick-in from when a therapeutic dose is first taken. They work by stimulating the growth (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC60045) of new brain cells in the hippocampal regions of the brain and it is the new cells and the interconnections they forge which produces the therapeutic response, not the ADs directly. Mirtazapine appears to become effective sooner for anxiety because of the sedation. It is more a sedating antihistamine than antidepressant.
Hi, thanks for taking the time to explain things. I guess its just a case of putting up with it until it settles then I will know how long the piece of string was😀. Yes the Mirt never really worked great with my anxiety but did help with sleep and has helped over the last few years but I think a med change was long overdue as things have been getting worse over the last year. There is also the weight gain which isn't helping my confidence or health so its one of the things I hope to address once we start the Mirt reductions depending on how well the Ven works for me.
Thanks again
God this is hard going, day 7 on 75mg of Ven and still on 30mg of Mirt pm until dr tapers it down. Anxiety is pretty intense especially in the morning. I work in the afternoons for 4 hours and am worried I'm going to lose it and not be able to go in. I really hope this intense anxiety subsides soon I'm finding it hard to deal with and my gp is not the sort to dish out a sedative. If this goes on much longer I will need to think about stopping it. An advice would be much appreciated.
panic_down_under
17-07-19, 12:58
I really hope this intense anxiety subsides soon I'm finding it hard to deal with and my gp is not the sort to dish out a sedative. If this goes on much longer I will need to think about stopping it. An advice would be much appreciated.
You are probably very close to seeing a reduction in side-effects. They usual begin diminishing as plasma levels of the drug stabilize to a steady-state which should have occurred a couple of days ago so try and hang on a little longer if you can. While your GP might not be keen on prescribing a benzodiazepine (BZD), there shouldn't be an objection to trying hydroxyzine as it isn't habit forming (not that a few days on BZDs would be either).
Thanks
It is so hard to keep calm even though I keep telling myself it will pass.
panic_down_under
18-07-19, 00:49
It is so hard to keep calm even though I keep telling myself it will pass.
Yes, it is hard. Try and distract yourself as much as possible. The first time I started on an antidepressant I rather stupidly demanded the dose be raised as quickly as possible as I wanted to speed up the process to protect my job. It was a horrendous experience, but one I got through by 'reading'. Actually, more just looking at the pages one word at a time without really comprehending what it was all about, but it got me through some very dark days. I've used the same strategy several times since with the same books when things became bleak while restarting, or switching ADs. I still have no idea what the books are about.
Another thing you can try to ease the heightened anxiety is a rudimentary form of acupuncture. Run your index finger down the back of an ear where it joins the skull until you find a hollow toward the bottom and apply firm pressure at that spot for a minute or so, though not to the point it is painful. Reapply as necessary. One ear is often more effective than the other, but this can change from day to day so you may need to experiment.
It was so bad at work yesterday I had to take half of a Zopliclone to calm down, Its been a few years since my panic/anxiety has been that bad. The odd thing is I know its panic so im not thinking im dying because I know its panic but I still have that totally out of control panic feeling. The Zopliclone calmed me down but its not the best thing to use while out driving. I will try the ear pressure, thank you.
Dying_Swan
18-07-19, 08:47
Hi Maca.
How are you doing this morning? Panic down under has given you great advice, and I'm going to try the ear thing too!
Do you think the anxiety is about taking a new medicine? Or do you feel it's a side effect? Might be difficult to tell I guess. What strategies have you used before for panic? It's really good that you recognise it's just panic and you aren't dying, and you WILL get through it just fine.
I switched from citalopram to Ven and didn't have major side effects, just a couple of mild ones. That said, when I've done dose increases I've had side effects. First time I gave up and went back to original dose, but they do subside if you can stick with it.
Out of interest, what time do you take your Ven? And is it 75mg once a day (extended release) or twice daily (37.5 immediate release)?
Hi Maca.
How are you doing this morning? Panic down under has given you great advice, and I'm going to try the ear thing too!
Do you think the anxiety is about taking a new medicine? Or do you feel it's a side effect? Might be difficult to tell I guess. What strategies have you used before for panic? It's really good that you recognise it's just panic and you aren't dying, and you WILL get through it just fine.
I switched from citalopram to Ven and didn't have major side effects, just a couple of mild ones. That said, when I've done dose increases I've had side effects. First time I gave up and went back to original dose, but they do subside if you can stick with it.
Out of interest, what time do you take your Ven? And is it 75mg once a day (extended release) or twice daily (37.5 immediate release)?
I take it am 75mg extended but can't eat am so just have it with coffee. I'm still on 30mg of Mirt pm so, yes I think its the meds causing the raised anxiety but also a little of my own startup/new med anxiety also. I have practiced mindfulness audio and deep breathing for years but when Im like I was yesterday I can't do anything but panic, also closing my eyes and meditating with headphones on while driving don't go well together 😀.
Still very early days its day 8 on Ven and I did sleep last night and evening was calm so that was good.
Hi Maca, I am on day 3 of cross tapering 10mg escitalopram and 75mg Venlafaxine and like yourself I take 30mg Mirtazapine at night. Next week my psychiatrist is going to increase me to 150mg and stop the escitalopram. She says that at 75mg venlafaxine acts as an SSRI but it starts to affect the Noradrenaline transmitter at higher doses and this is better for anxiety. Maybe you will get a better effect if you increase again? It’s a scary thought I know (I also have a small supply of diazepam to take in case the anxiety gets really bad.)
Yes I will see what dr says on next visit on Tuesday.
Hi Maca, I am on day 3 of cross tapering 10mg escitalopram and 75mg Venlafaxine and like yourself I take 30mg Mirtazapine at night. Next week my psychiatrist is going to increase me to 150mg and stop the escitalopram. She says that at 75mg venlafaxine acts as an SSRI but it starts to affect the Noradrenaline transmitter at higher doses and this is better for anxiety. Maybe you will get a better effect if you increase again? It’s a scary thought I know (I also have a small supply of diazepam to take in case the anxiety gets really bad.)
Keep posting on how your getting on, I think me raised anxiety is getting better after it went sky high @ about day 3 on Ven. Could be me being anxious about med changes but I do believe the med is a factor.
Dying_Swan
19-07-19, 10:50
So glad you had a better day. Fingers crossed you're through the worst of the side effects now. I totally understand not feeling able to control the panic when it gets like that. Have you tried the "sigh breath"? I can't remember the exact procedure but can look it up, but basically you force yourself to sigh and I think the theory is that it helps to regulate your O2/Co2 levels. Another thing I sometimes find is that when I'm anxious about a situation, I subconsciously tense a lot of muscles, and so sometimes consciously relaxing them again can help.
75mg XR in the morning sounds a good plan. Do you find the "on edge" feeling improves after you take your dose in the morning?
Hope you're feeling ok today.
So glad you had a better day. Fingers crossed you're through the worst of the side effects now. I totally understand not feeling able to control the panic when it gets like that. Have you tried the "sigh breath"? I can't remember the exact procedure but can look it up, but basically you force yourself to sigh and I think the theory is that it helps to regulate your O2/Co2 levels. Another thing I sometimes find is that when I'm anxious about a situation, I subconsciously tense a lot of muscles, and so sometimes consciously relaxing them again can help.
75mg XR in the morning sounds a good plan. Do you find the "on edge" feeling improves after you take your dose in the morning?
Hope you're feeling ok today.
At the moment the on edge/anxiety is in the morning and lasts until about an hour or so after I start work at 2pm. I didn't sleep well last night woke up in a panic so sat in summer room with my cat until it went so knackered today. I do a breathing exercise where you breath in for a count of 4 hold 4 breath out 4 and repeat. Problem is that when I'm really out of control anxious nothing helps I just let it run its course.
Can't say I feel better but I'm not feeling worse so that's a + i suppose.
Dying_Swan
20-07-19, 12:01
I'm sorry you had a rough night. Cat cuddles are always soothing :) Yes, when panic takes hold it's really hard to remember the strategies. It's positive though that you recognise it for what it is and just let it go.
When do you go back to the GP? Are they going to reduce or just stop your mirtazapine?
I hope you're having a good day today
Hi, yes I often look at my cats and wish I could relax like they can they have mastered the art.
Today not so bad so far and did sleep so feel refreshed. I think the idea is to reduce then stop the Mirt but I am going to suggest we might try a low dose of Mirt pm to help with sleep. I do have Zopliclone but that's not great long term also when my panic was so bad the other day I took half a Zop to calm down I was working at the time stuck in Southampton in the van so had to pull over and get things under control, that panic was very intense.
The panic/anxiety attacks are still intense but do not last long so I am hoping things are starting to settle down. Have been sleeping but not deeply but do not feel tired in the day so must be getting sleep. Have been able to get off my bum and do some garden work all be it just a little but still something.
Dying_Swan
21-07-19, 17:23
Hey Maca. That sounds positive and well done for sticking it out. I think managing to get with some things like gardening is a great thing to do. I find it quite therapeutic and satisfying. I'm sorry you're still having panic attacks, but it sounds like you're getting through them. I don't know much about zopiclone - took it briefly many years ago and remember getting an awful taste in my mouth, and then the GP refused to prescribe them, so that was that. I would say it's definitely worth chatting to your GP about carrying on with a small dose of mirtazapine if your sleep is still difficult.
Hey Maca. That sounds positive and well done for sticking it out. I think managing to get with some things like gardening is a great thing to do. I find it quite therapeutic and satisfying. I'm sorry you're still having panic attacks, but it sounds like you're getting through them. I don't know much about zopiclone - took it briefly many years ago and remember getting an awful taste in my mouth, and then the GP refused to prescribe them, so that was that. I would say it's definitely worth chatting to your GP about carrying on with a small dose of mirtazapine if your sleep is still difficult.
Hi Dying Swan,
Yes the Zopliclone sedates me and I take one before bed. But I do have a problem as I really shouldn't be taking half in the day when really in panic mode but they do sedate me and stop the panic. My GP knows about this and that is why we are working towards a slow reduction of Zop in the hope that the Ven starts to work. The Zop should only be taken for a few days really simply because you can become addicted to it as I have. Still on the bright side, at least I have managed to get some work done today.
Dying_Swan
22-07-19, 09:00
That's good that you've managed to get some bits done. Do you take the zopiclone every night or just as and when? I'm not sure if it's the same as benzos where you get tolerant to it and need more for the same effect? I'm really hoping that's not the case for mirtazapine but I presume not. I can see why taking the zopiclone during panic isn't necessarily ideal, especially if you're at work or driving etc, so well done for being open with your GP so that you can figure things out together. Good luck for your appointment tomorrow, and I hope today is a good day
Yes the Zop does need more of a dose the more you take it thats why they only prescribe short term so im well and truly hooked. I take one every night but take half in day if panic is severe. Mirt is not the same you wont need more its always been consistent for me.
Dreading work today as I was up at 5am in a panic so not looking forward to work.
Just got back from GP's and she has been great. Going down on Mirt to 15mg then the plan is to go up with Ven to 150mg in 2 weeks with a view of coming off the Mirt. We are going to tackle the Zopliclone once I'm stable. Its was nice to be listened to as i am not keen on GP's due to bad experiences in the past.
Hope thing are on the up.
Dying_Swan
23-07-19, 20:32
Great to hear that you've found a GP you feel you can work with, and that you have a plan in place. I hope your day at work yesterday wasn't too bad and you're starting to feel better on the Ven :)
Yes although I'm still getting panic attacks, I do feel they are shorter and my mind is dwelling on them less so I hope that is the Ven beginning to work.
Still pushing on with new meds so now the Mirt is down to 15mg at night and Ven still at 75mg. Sleep is poor I keep having to get up and go downstairs as I wake feeling disturbed/anxious, not sure what that's about. I get so tired fighting anxiety all the time I guess you all know what that's like, just waiting for relief.
DR wanted me upto 150mg on wednesday but I said I wanted to take it slow but perhaps I should have taken her advise. Wife is on holiday with my daughter and my sons away all weekend so I'm panicking being on my own, I used to love time to myself but now, when alone, my mind just turns on itself and I feel crap. Hope things will change soon.
Dying_Swan
26-07-19, 09:28
Hey Maca. Maybe the lower dose of mirtazapine will help with sleep? When I increased from 75 to 150 Ven, I did it slower than the doc wanted and did a week at 112.5mg. You could ask about that maybe?
Is there something you could do whilst your wife is away to take your mind off things? Maybe listen to some relaxation exercises? Puzzle book? Something mindless but which switches your focus.
Yes I'm going to hammer mindfulness AP this weekend. Isn't it funny, years back I couldn't wait for the weekend to come and couldn't wait fb or work to end, now its the other way round.
If you couldn't find the humor in it you would go mad.
Dying_Swan
26-07-19, 19:34
Mindfulness sounds like a great plan. Yes, humour is super important. I have a close friend who has anxiety problems and we often laugh out loud about things we've worried about. Do you have someone you can talk to about how you're feeling? Wishing you a happy and hopefully relaxing weekend.
Yes I have an emergency mate, she also suffers but has done well on meds. Feel drained today and sick of intense health anxiety, its been with me since a very young age but I can cope with a few days of it but not this just wish they would prescribe a benzo to shut my head up and give me a break.
Dying_Swan
26-07-19, 22:02
Really glad you have someone to turn to. Will they not give you any benzos? I know they aren't the long term answer but understand the feeling of needing a break from it. You're doing so well though and it's still early days. I hope you manage to sleep ok and are feeling brighter tomorrow
Really glad you have someone to turn to. Will they not give you any benzos? I know they aren't the long term answer but understand the feeling of needing a break from it. You're doing so well though and it's still early days. I hope you manage to sleep ok and are feeling brighter tomorrow
No benzo is not a thing my gp would give but I'm using up my supply of Zop so have needed to order more online. I had to take one at work Friday just to stop the panic then i got home late took 2 and was asleep by 9pm but up at 12 in a panic so its now 3am and I'm not tired. My friend does not have benzo so im stuck. Just starting to regret this med change now as i didn't think I would be feeling this bad.
Dying_Swan
27-07-19, 10:21
Oh no, I'm sorry you had a bad night. When are you next seeing your GP? I wonder if it might be worth going back sooner to explain how you're feeling?
On the 6th, problem is she is booked up and I really only want to see her as the others can't handle my HA she is very good with it, treats me with kid gloves. I will just have to wait it out but not really sure she can do anything more.
God this is getting tiring, asleep at 10pm after calming down after bath the awake at 12 feeling agitated went downstairs sat for a while. Back sleep up at 3am,same again agitated, then had light disturbed sleep until 6am when I had to get up as I was panicky. Its been like this for a few days/nights now. Does this never let up.
Dying_Swan
28-07-19, 08:33
It's horrible Maca. That's how I was for weeks until the mirtazapine. Is this still happening despite the zopiclone? What happens if you stay in bed and don't get up?
It's horrible Maca. That's how I was for weeks until the mirtazapine. Is this still happening despite the zopiclone? What happens if you stay in bed and don't get up?
Been taking 1 Zop later in evening @ 9pm. If I stated in bed I will just toss and turn and get all wound up, I just need to go downstairs and site until I've calmed down. The Zop relaxes me so I drift off in a lovely sleepy state until the agitation starts. I have given up trying to control it now I just don't have the mental energy anymore.
This sleep pattern is really weird, 9pm take 1 Zop, wake at 12 get up wired, go back to bed wake 3am get up wired, go to bed light in & out sleep till 4.30am then up for day. Don't feel tired in day at all, really weird.
Dying_Swan
29-07-19, 08:50
That does sound tough, although I guess it's good you're not feeling tired in the day at least. I wonder what would happen if you changed it slightly and took the zopiclone either earlier or later?
Yes might try taking it later but think best option is to reduce I have got to remember I'm still on 15mg Mirt 75mg Ven and Zop so they may all be fighting it out with each other. Mood is slightly better less negative so ready for the Ven increase.
Have had better sleep, still getting up a couple of times but not so agitated, took Zop earlier so that might be a factor or the recent anxiety has run its course. Have had brief but welcome windows of feeling normal so I hope this is a sign of things to come. It is very hard to put into word but I am getting moments of calm in my mind and have been able to enjoy some things more like music/diy in garden etc. I'm very aware that things change very fast with me often hour to hour but it is such a relief to get even small amounts of calm.
Definitely ready to increase dose to 150mg.
Dying_Swan
30-07-19, 17:37
That does sound positive. Improved sleep does help with mood and let's hope it will continue to get better so that you can sleep through. I think I understand the ups and downs with moods. When do you increase?
Wednesday but she wanted to start it last week i but said lets go nice and slow
Dying_Swan
30-07-19, 20:08
Tomorrow? Good luck! Do you know if the GP is planning to keep you at 150 or increase further? Hoping you get another reasonable night's sleep tonight :)
Why do I keep deleting my post when trying to edit. I ment to say I see GP next Wednesday and she did not mention going any higher than 150mg. Sleep was bad again, asleep at 9.30pm up at 12am then 4am then up dressed at 6am. Got to just put up with it and it might have something to do with Mirt drop from 30mg to 15mg the change date match my poor sleep.
Getting some real whacky dreams some not so nice. Got this on Mirt but these are on the next level.
Dying_Swan
01-08-19, 19:37
Yes, I've been having wild dreams too and assume it's due to ven increase. You could well be right about the sleep change and the mirt reduction. I guess it all takes some time to settle. Hope you are doing ok today
Them dream are mad aren't they. Yes Work was ok but busy which focused my mind so a good thing. Actually slept better last night, still up but it was 2.30am so had a glass of milk then went back to bed at 4am and had a few hours.
Dying_Swan
02-08-19, 10:50
That's definitely sounding more hopeful :) I agree that being busy can be quite helpful for distraction. Milk is supposed to be good for sleep, something to do with tryptophan I think. There's a list of foods which are supposed to be helpful for sleep. I can't remember them all but am sure it'll be online. Let's hope the sleep continues to improve, with or without the crazy dreams!
That's definitely sounding more hopeful :) I agree that being busy can be quite helpful for distraction. Milk is supposed to be good for sleep, something to do with tryptophan I think. There's a list of foods which are supposed to be helpful for sleep. I can't remember them all but am sure it'll be online. Let's hope the sleep continues to improve, with or without the crazy dreams!
Is Mc Donalds on the sleep list, I hope so 😉
Dying_Swan
02-08-19, 19:03
Is Mc Donalds on the sleep list, I hope so
Sadly not! Oh man, I want McD's now. I'm blaming the mirtazapine :shades:
Yes I keep driving past the Mc D ads and I'm so weak willed I divert to try the latest new burger. A curry is my fav but with Mirt hunger I will eat anything and it often hits about 2 hours after taking it.
Dying_Swan
03-08-19, 15:09
I haven't had McDonalds in years, but it always smells sooo tempting. I'm taking the mirt when I go to bed to try to stave off the munchies, but I do think it increases my appetite in the day too. Mmmm curry. Love it!
I haven't had McDonalds in years, but it always smells sooo tempting. I'm taking the mirt when I go to bed to try to stave off the munchies, but I do think it increases my appetite in the day too. Mmmm curry. Love it!
Be strong resist.
I used to wake up after an hour after taking Mirt and eat.
Just seen GP and she has upped the Ven to 150mg and keeping the Mirt @ 15mg for now. Zopliclone will be reduced once I'm stable on the Ven. So here we go hope it keeps getting better.
Good luck, hopefully this will be the dose for you, fingers crossed for you 🤞🙂
Good luck, hopefully this will be the dose for you, fingers crossed for you 🤞🙂
Hey thanks Jo,
Things any better for you ? Has the anxiety reduced.
It’s better this evening but then i’m always ok in the evenings! I ended up taking a diazepam at midday so that sorted me out for a little while, then my neighbour invited me over for a coffee so our kids could play...I wouldn’t have considered going if it was this time last week so just got to keep reminding myself there are lots of little improvements even though they are hard to see sometimes
Dying_Swan
06-08-19, 21:09
Good luck Maca. That sounds like a sensible route your doc is taking. Will be keeping my fingers crossed for you.
Jo - glad you're feeling a bit better. Hang on to those little improvements. Maybe write them down so you can remind yourself of them when you're struggling?
It’s better this evening but then i’m always ok in the evenings! I ended up taking a diazepam at midday so that sorted me out for a little while, then my neighbour invited me over for a coffee so our kids could play...I wouldn’t have considered going if it was this time last week so just got to keep reminding myself there are lots of little improvements even though they are hard to see sometimes
Sounds like you pushed yourself to go for a coffee and enjoyed it so that's good. Funny how we both feel better in the evenings, l never really understood why that is, maybe we have had such a hectic day of anxiety our minds just take a break. I still have the odd 1/2 a Zopliclone to calm me in the day but the need is getting less and less. Hold onto the positives.
Great idea of righting things down, I make notes every day on my phone just the date and how I feel also a score out of 10 for anxiety levels and any med changes. It can be a pain to do it if your feeling crap but it does help to look back. Problem is that we tend to remember how crap we feel and forget the feeling better bits so its a good reminder.
Dying_Swan
07-08-19, 21:01
Very true and it can sometimes feel like a hassle, but there are usually some positive things each day, even really small things. It's nice to focus on those when you can and nice to look back on, especially when you can see the improvement.
Since I increased the Ven to 150mg my sleep has gone mad again, up at 3am come 5am I just had shower and got dressed. Sure this will settle as it did before so not worried about it but I get tired at work now.
Dying_Swan
09-08-19, 16:36
Yes, give it time to settle. I think that it might settle quicker for you this time as you're not as stressed about it. Following way too many years of poor sleep, I have learned to remind myself that if I don't sleep well, I'll feel tired but nothing bad will happen. Hope you continue to do well
Sounds like you pushed yourself to go for a coffee and enjoyed it so that's good. Funny how we both feel better in the evenings, l never really understood why that is, maybe we have had such a hectic day of anxiety our minds just take a break. I still have the odd 1/2 a Zopliclone to calm me in the day but the need is getting less and less. Hold onto the positives.
I think it’s because your cortisol levels are naturally lower in the evening and high in the morning so that would explain why most people with anxiety are worse first thing. So if you’re ever having a crap day just remember it won’t last all day 🙂
Luckily i’ve had a fairly good day today...no anxiety at all until this evening as I had to take my son to the out of hours doc as he had a really high temperature (turned out to be an ear infection so nothing major) but I managed to stay pretty calm. Two weeks and 4 days on 150mg and things are looking up 🤞🙂
Lets hope its all starting to come together for us all I hope so.
Dying_Swan
10-08-19, 09:30
Absolutely agree about cortisol. If I'm going through a bout of anxiety it's always worst in the morning. Sorry to hear about your son Jo, but glad it turned out not to be too serious and you got it sorted. Well done both, looks like perseverance is paying off :)
I've done more garden work over the last couple of weeks than I've properly done over the last year. Something is changing in my brain and work has also been good, I actually enjoyed it yesterday and had abit of humor back. Still early days but if this a sign of things to come then its welcome. Had some acid reflux in my sleep last night after eating a late meal then going straight to bed at 7.30pm, woke up choking like when you have a drink and it goes down the wrong way and you lung flaps close for a few seconds. I have had this scary thing happen a few times in as many years and normally I would go into HA anxiety mode and I would be in a panic for days and scared to go to sleep but last night I got up in a panic and by the time i got downstairs I was pretty calm. Went back to bed and went to sleep. This med is blocking me from escalating things and I am much more calm. Got to give my food time to digest before lying down to sleep. So Gaviscon before bed what's next, a walking frame, O the joys of being in your 50's.
panic_down_under
11-08-19, 00:09
O the joys of being in your 50's.
Wait until you hit the 70s! :ohmy:
Wait until you hit the 70s! :ohmy:
I will report back in 15 years and we can compare notes 😉
Had the best nights sleep last night I have had in months so feel pretty good today much more in the loop of life again and able to get out with family and enjoy things. I think I am responding well to the Ven increase and hope this continues.
Dying_Swan
11-08-19, 16:11
That's so good to hear! I'm so glad you're doing so much better :yesyes:
That's so good to hear! I'm so glad you're doing so much better :yesyes:
Are you finding things any better ?. How are the teatime moods.
Dying_Swan
11-08-19, 18:06
I think a bit better thanks. Still get the ups and downs but haven't had the really awful lows at 5 for a little while, so keeping my fingers crossed.
Sounds like things are coming together. I was thinking today, while at the local cat & rabbit rescue centre summer fair, how alien the feelings of happiness and relaxation is to me. I have spent so much time in the dark side of my mind I have almost forgotten how normal feels, what is an every day feeling for most has been absent in my life for so long. I have had a glimpse of how things can be for the last few days and it is most welcome.
Dying_Swan
11-08-19, 19:59
I understand exactly what you mean, 100%. Those glimpses are lovely. I really hope they become less of a rarity and a more frequent occurrence, and it looks promising :)
Bit of an up and down day today but still feeling better and any anxiety is short lived. I think I need to just accept any moods as normal and stop trying to be this person who is always happy and stress free. I have always said to myself, one day I will be that perfect person, but he doesn't exist or ever will so I can take the pressure off myself.
Dying_Swan
13-08-19, 16:19
I agree with you about acceptance, and I think it's easy to put pressure on yourself that you should feel amazing every day, but that's not realistic for anyone and everyone has up and down days. Some sort of normality is my aim, whatever that is :wacko:
Yer normal for me is just having some time not freaking out about some silly thing and be able to engage with whatever I'm doing.
Well a gauge of my mood can be measured by my car. I am a little ocd and always keep my car clean and waxed but the last few months its just been sat in the garage dirty from when we got back from a weekend break. Today its been washed waxed and is looking like new. I'm getting an interest in things back and its so nice to be getting bits of me back 😀
Dying_Swan
18-08-19, 17:32
That's brilliant. So pleased for you! My car is covered in dust and cobwebs from a resident spider. As long as it goes I don't mind. Nice one Maca :)
Just interested in what is happening with morning anxiety. I always most anxious first thing in the morning, I take my Ven with breakfast then I pick up around 1pm and normally feel pretty good upto bedtime. Is the Ven getting low by the morning ? I ask because I thought that was the point in the slow release capsules.
Dying_Swan
19-08-19, 17:20
It's possible. I didn't get on with XR because I'd start withdrawing before the next dose. I think that's quite unusual though and it was very definite withdrawal symptoms, not a change in anxiety. Hopefully panic down under might see this and have some ideas. My guess is your morning anxiety could be due to higher levels of the stress hormones (cortisol, adrenaline) in the morning. I usually find that the sooner I get up and going, the sooner it calms down. Taking some exercise, eg walking for 20 mins, is also supposed to help. It's a horrible feeling and I sympathise
I’m exactly the same Maca, usually ok from 1 or 2pm and evenings are better. Hoping it will all settle down soon
I sometimes wonder that my brain is putting me to the test as i’ll start feeling a bit more confident and then the old intrusive thoughts I was getting a few weeks back have started to crop up again although I think i’m learning to deal with them better now so hoping it’s all part of the recovery process and not the meds pooping out on me!
No Jo I don't think it's pooping out on you, I am the same.
I get good days where I think, this is it i'm feeling OK again, then out of the blue i'm all anxious again and thinking here we go again my mind is turning in on itself again. Like you I have noticed that I am dealing with these thoughts better so I really do believe the meds are doing their stuff and I think as time goes on it will get better. It is so cruel when you get a good day then the next is crap, it's horrible isn't it, but I still see this as early days and on the whole i'm pleased with the results Ven is giving me so lets hope we are getting snippets of things to come.
I really hope so, i’m having such a bad morning and can’t stop crying. My old intrusive thoughts are back making me think maybe I don’t love my partner and should leave him. The fact that it upsets me so much tells me this isn’t true at all, I can’t imagine life without him. It was my birthday yesterday (the big 40) which always gets me a bit down as I lost my sister 13 years ago and my dad 18 months ago. My partner took me out for a really lovely meal at a very posh restaurant but I very nearly got up and left not long after sitting down as I felt so anxious and thought I was going to cry. I’m 4 weeks today on 150 and not cried so much for ages! ����
Sounds like you have alot of loss going on there Jo no wonder you feel like crying and I would say just go with it. Just get through today don't think too far ahead and I hope you feel better tomorrow, its all going to get better, I'm sure of it.
Dying_Swan
20-08-19, 14:10
Belated Happy Birthday Jo. Sorry you're having a rough day. I think birthdays, especially milestone ones, can be a bit anxiety-inducing, when there's so much pressure to have fun and you don't necessarily feel like it. I'm also really sorry to hear about your bereavements, though I'm a firm believer in allowing yourself to grieve. I paid a high price for blocking out grief, so let it out whenever you need to. Crying is a good way to release tension. As for the intrusive thoughts about your husband, you already answered that. My understanding of such thoughts is that they're all about preventing harm. You know you don't want to leave your husband because those thoughts upset you. Try not to fight them, just allow them to be. Are you staying at 150 or increasing? I also have good and bad days, and it's difficult to know sometimes if the meds are working, but everyone has good and bad days and that's ok.
I’ve got a CBT session this evening too which I’m always nervous about as it always brings stuff out. Seeing the psychiatrist on Friday so I’m kind of hoping she will tell me to increase. I’m also thinking maybe I should reduce the mirtazapine to 15mg as it’s more sedating at lower doses and i’m starting to struggle with sleep for the last few days. I’m trying to stay positive but sometimes it’s just so hard.
Yes it is hard I know but things will change I'm sure they will. Keep pushing on we will all get there.
I feel a little bad about posting when I know others are really struggling but it is always good to hear positive posts. I have had a few days now of feeling really engaged in life again, I have actually had a feeling of happiness and wake up wanting to get up and get busy rather than wanting to go back to sleep, that was my only rest bite a few weeks ago. Sure things will change but I am enjoying it while it lasts. Hope your all feeling better.
That’s brilliant Maca, fingers crossed it continues for you 🙂
I’ve had another bad morning but managed to get through it without resorting to diazepam unlike yesterday (i’ve Even found half a pack of propranolol in the cupboard so was on that AND the diazepam yesterday and still couldn’t settle 🤯)
I’m quite calm now but my mood seems to change hourly at the moment. I was content playing Lego with my boy this morning and the next thing I’m in floods of tears in the bathroom.
Seeing the psychiatrist tomorrow so will see what she thinks. I’m just going to tell her how I feel the meds have given me energy, I’m functioning and doing things but still feel a sense of panic/numbness about doing things I would normally enjoy
Dying_Swan
22-08-19, 14:25
Don't feel bad about posting Maca. I think it's really helpful for others to see people improving and doing well, otherwise we'd all just think these meds are useless. I've also found it helpful sharing journeys with you and Jo, and I'm so pleased you're feeling so much better. Compare that to a few weeks ago, and it's really clear how far you've come.
Jo, I can empathise with frequent mood changes. I get moments of feeling euphoric and moments of despair too. I overslept last night, woke up drenched in sweat and hyperventilating from horrible dreams. How did your CBT go? Good luck with the psychiatrist.
Thanks you two,
Don't get me wrong its not all fun and games but its alot better than thinking I can't take anymore and having very dark thoughts, so dark I scared myself. Just very simple things like cleaning my car is a big step forward for me, sounds daft but true. I hope your dr appointment goes well Jo and maybe you do need an increase but it might just be a little early to gauge how well the 150mg will work.
Yes same as DS, its a great help for me to read your and Jo's posts, its unfortunate we have this negative thing in common but its positive to share.
Dying_Swan
23-08-19, 21:53
I totally understand, it's a big relief when the dark thoughts start to subside. It doesn't sound daft at all - sometimes the small things are a really useful measure of progress
Really odd but expected. Had a bad sleep with loads of disturbing dreams so HA is high this morning, been feeling on edge and very anxious but I will just let it do its stuff then move on. The whole of last week was pretty good and im not long into 150mg of Ven so sure it will pick up. Dont feel so disappointed feeling abit crap as I did before, it holds less importance so things are still on the up. Have a good weekend both of you.
Dying_Swan
24-08-19, 14:00
Sorry you're not feeling so good today, but I think half the battle is just accepting the ups and downs like you are doing. I had a disturbing dream a couple of days ago and felt really anxious for quite a while after waking up, but it does pass. Last two nights I've had no dreams (that I can remember) and no night sweats, but have been wired in the day. Not a clue why, but like you I'm trying to just go with the flow. We'll get there.
Yes I have just kept busy in the garden all day so my mind has been focused on that.
Relaxed now, done loads of garden work now sitting in garden with headphones on listening to trance/dance music, I find it uplifts my mood 🤪
Dying_Swan
25-08-19, 00:31
Good stuff, glad you're doing better. Gardening is therapeutic, though I'm not keen on all those big brown spiders making their way out for autumn. Hope you get a good night's sleep
So...... how was the BH weekend for you both ?. I have not been 100% but ok so can't complain.
Same here....been feeling really wound up in the mornings but not particularly bothered by it. It’s a weird feeling really...I wish it would piss off but it’s not upsetting me like it used to.
Same here....been feeling really wound up in the mornings but not particularly bothered by it. It’s a weird feeling really...I wish it would piss off but it’s not upsetting me like it used to.
Its funny how we are getting the same feelings isn't it, you have just described my exact feelings. Its still there but I can't be assed with it but still want it to bugger off.
I spoke too soon, been really down and crying all afternoon :doh:
Dying_Swan
27-08-19, 20:37
Hi both. BH weekend not too bad thanks, just a bit warm so some lovely Ven sweats. One thing I'm noticing is some weird muscle twitches when I'm falling asleep. A while ago I kept jumping out of my skin when going to sleep but I think that was due to sleep deprivation. This is different, like suddenly my fingers or feet or mouth will twitch a fair amount, a bit like how a dog or cat twitches when they're dreaming. I'm not really worried about it but wondered if it's med-related and if you've experienced it?
Sorry you've not had such a good day Jo. It is difficult having such ups and downs, and I think all you can do is to try to be patient with yourself and take each day as it comes.
How are you doing Maca? Glad you had a good laugh with the MIL!
I get a leg twitch in that moment between awake and sleep sometimes its quiet a violent movement. When I was on Citalopram my whole body would jerk just before sleep that was horrible.
Dying_Swan
27-08-19, 21:03
Thanks Maca. That sounds exactly like it. It is most often my lower legs and feet. Very strange and I only notice it when I'm falling asleep. Guessing that's the meds then :blush:
When I first started on mirtazapine at 15mg I would get this weird twitching right on the tip of my nose and in my top lip! typically it would happen whenever I was talking to someone! It wore off once the meds settled in though thank goodness :D
Dying_Swan
27-08-19, 22:09
It's weird huh? Poor you though, I'd definitely prefer it to happen in bed than when talking to someone! I'm gonna put it down to the mirt then and hope it settles. Thank you both
Now I can't spell this right but my DR told me it was call Mycolic Jerk.
Dying_Swan
28-08-19, 19:30
Myoclonic jerk! Yep, that's exactly what I think it is. Thank you :) I mentioned it to my GP and he agreed it's probably the med combination and not to worry about it. I'll see what the psych says. I hope you're doing ok today?
Yes its harmless and can come and go. I'm doing ok and the effects of the increase are starting to kick in so feel a little odd at the moment kind of in my own world feeling, but able to function at work ok. Its like I feel calm and everyone else is in a panic while out in the van delivering my meds to care homes its a odd feeling I am just not getting all wound up when before I would be rushing around in a panic for no real reason.
Dying_Swan
29-08-19, 20:12
That sounds quite positive. I understand the feeling of being in your own world, but that's great if you're feeling nice and calm with it too. So pleased it's working well for you
That sounds quite positive. I understand the feeling of being in your own world, but that's great if you're feeling nice and calm with it too. So pleased it's working well for you
Thanks, GP has been on hols so its been a few weeks but see her Tuesday. I was going to ask to be referred to a psychiatrist did either of you have any problems getting a referral and what was the waiting time.
My doctor tried referring me to the NHS community mental health team but it took them six weeks to get back to me just to say they wouldn’t even see me, I’m not ill enough from what info the GP gave them. I find it shocking that the NHS is so lacking in mental health care.
I ended up going private as luckily it was covered on my partners insurance and I got my first appointment within a week. If I was to pay myself she would charge £170 a session.
What annoys me even more, a couple of months back I ended up going to A&E because I was in such a bad way having some really scary thoughts and they handed me over to the acute mental health team just before I started on the venlafaxine. They sent a psychiatric nurse to see me once a week for the first few weeks and called me nearly every day to check up on me and give me support and advice. I still have their number and can call them whenever I’m desperate. They were shocked that the CMHT wouldn’t see me and have told me to ask to be referred again once my sessions with the private psychiatrist run out (I suppose now that I’ve been to A&E it’s now on my records that I have been in crisis and should be classed as “ill enough”)
Dying_Swan
30-08-19, 20:07
I went private for psychiatrist too. It's really expensive but I have some very limited insurance which has covered it so far. I've found it nearly impossible to get help with mental health on the NHS, but each area is different so you may be more lucky. It's definitely worth asking about
Thanks, yes I will ask but won't hold my breath but worth a try.
How’s things with you Maca?
GP visit today so plan is stay at 150mg Ven as she says it would not of had max effect yet, been on it 4 weeks. Staying on Mirt 15mg for sleep and shes not bothered about having Zopliclone so gave me 3mths supplies of each and will see me in 5wks. Then we will talk about increase of Ven if needed but its working so well for me I doubt I will need to go up. Been good and feeling much better for longer periods. Feel very calm at work and am able to enjoy it again.
That’s great, makes no sense to increase it if you’re responding so well. Hope it continues for you 🙂🤞
Dying_Swan
04-09-19, 19:35
So good to hear Maca. I'm so glad you're doing so much better. Long may it continue!
So time to check in.
How are you DS & Jo ?.
I have had a good week just disturbed sleep wiv some horrific nightmares & now my wife tells me my snoring has got really loud, I don't care im asleep 😀. Things are not brilliant but a million miles away from how I was a couple of months ago.
Sunnysideup
08-09-19, 07:55
Hello everyone,
Following this thread. I just started out on Venlafaxine 75mg XR nearly 4 weeks ago. Very interested to watch your progress. I did a straight switch from Citalopram 20mg.
My own experience was , I felt nothing for the first 4 days ie no change.
Then about ten or eleven days of heightened anxiety.
Then seven days of feeling a bit better.
Now a few days of anxious mornings but feeling better as the day progresses.
Feeling really impatient to stabilise, but I know you just can't rush this......it happens in its own time. I think I'm a bit less obsessive than I was, and a bit more able to bat away intrusive thoughts.....
Have you guys taken different meds before? I know Macca you have taken Mirtazipine, did you find it helpful? Is there a reason you are tapering off, if you don't mind me asking.....
Mirtazapine never really tackled the anxiety but helped with sleep so I still take 15mg at night. One of the reasons for coming off is the weight gain, it can really make you want to eat junk so along with it not impacting on the anxiety was the reason to reduce and come off. Your post reflects just how starting the Ven went for me so try to relax and let it work but maybe 150mg is a better dose to help, obviously you need to have a chat with your GP about this.
Welcome to the site I hope you get the support I have so ask any questions you want.
Sunnysideup
08-09-19, 09:52
Thank you :)
Although I don't feel quite right yet, I am beginning to feel different, if that makes any sense. It's definitely energising me a bit. I'm a bit shaky, though. Will be glad when the anxiety calms down. Wondering if you also have a bit of a racing heart on Venlafaxine?
Hi sunny side up. Just like Maca I take mirtazapine for sleep, I don’t think it really helps for much else but then i’ve always taken it alongside another antidepressant, previously SSRIs sertraline and then escitalopram. I recently increased to 225 on the ven but wondering if I jumped the gun a bit too quickly as I had only been on 150mg for 4 weeks and they do say it can take 4 to 6 weeks to notice an effect. As you are doing well I would be tempted to stay on 75 for another week and see how you go, but keep in mind this is the minimum therapeutic dose so it may help to increase to 150.
Be kind to yourself and just try to accept that’s just how you feel today. Tomorrow is another day and these meds take time. I think the reason I have been so impatient with myself was because I was on escitalopram previously and this kicked in so quick for me, within two weeks I was back to my old self but it only lasted a couple of months.
Increasing to 225 had been hard work. I didn’t notice much improvement on 75 or 150 but on 225 have had the most horrendous side effects of increased anxiety and depression which are settling down now after 2 weeks. I’m now flitting between feeling down one day to feeling wired the next but it’s more bearable.
P.s regarding the racing heart - you could ask your GP for some propranolol, it’s a beta blocker and really helps for this 🙂
Yes I have had the racing heart but its calming down abit now. I wear one of those watches that measures HR and sleep, both have been affected since starting Ven but I can live with that the pro's far outweigh the con's.
Sunnysideup
08-09-19, 16:23
[QUOTE=Jo79;1893555] As you are doing well I would be tempted to stay on 75 for another week and see how you go, but keep in mind this is the minimum therapeutic dose so it may help to increase to 150.
Hi Jo, thanks for the kind words, really good to hear from others going through similar journey. Yeah, have defintiely had some benefits. This last two days have been gnarly, though. I do think my sleep and energy have improved a bit....at the moment, days are a bit weird but then after about 4pm I start to feel better.
Be kind to yourself and just try to accept that’s just how you feel today. Tomorrow is another day and these meds take time. I think the reason I have been so impatient with myself was because I was on escitalopram previously and this kicked in so quick for me, within two weeks I was back to my old self but it only lasted a couple of months.
Thank you, yes, it's hard waking up and feeling that anxious feeling. You're right, these meds and especially this one, seems to take a while to get going. When I first took citalopram many years ago, it also kicked in within the first month.....I'm really hoping this one will work. Happy to hop to 150 if that's gonna help me. I just want to feel better again.
Managed to cope with seeing elderly parents today, which was a bit stressful, but back at home and relaxing now. Just getting through the days rght now feels like an achievement. Hope you're having a good day :)
Sunnysideup
08-09-19, 16:25
Yes I have had the racing heart but its calming down abit now. I wear one of those watches that measures HR and sleep, both have been affected since starting Ven but I can live with that the pro's far outweigh the con's.
Well that's good to know Macca, gives me some hope that I will feel the benefits. Really need to hear people's successes on Ven.
Dying_Swan
09-09-19, 21:10
Hey Maca. I'm ok thanks. I'm up to 100mg quetiapine now and sticking with that for a bit, with 225 ven and 7.5 mirt. Had a busy weekend and have been super tired but ok. I'm sorry to hear about the nightmares though. The dreams are pretty full on.
Sunnyside - yes I had racing heart when I started ven, and also when I increased it. I only got it after eating, strangely. I increased propranolol which helped. After recent ven increase, it just sorted itself out. Like you, I swapped from citalopram to ven. I'm currently on a bit of a cocktail as you can see! Also tried fluoxetine a long time ago but it didn't suit me. Good luck with it and ask anything you want to.
Sunnysideup
10-09-19, 10:31
[QUOTE=Dying_Swan;1893870
Sunnyside - yes I had racing heart when I started ven, and also when I increased it. I only got it after eating, strangely. I increased propranolol which helped. After recent ven increase, it just sorted itself out. Like you, I swapped from citalopram to ven. I'm currently on a bit of a cocktail as you can see! Also tried fluoxetine a long time ago but it didn't suit me. Good luck with it and ask anything you want to.[/QUOTE]
Thank you, yep, got some propranolol here. Really appreciate that, it's good to be able to ask people what they have experienced as it can all feel like a bit of a minefield. First time I've switched from anything else so it's hard to know what's me and what are side effects at times.....
I think the Ven just creeps up on you then suddenly you start to get good days that turn into a week and you will find that any anxiety attacks have much less importance so you just move on, its so nice. Im really enjoying work at the moment, I deliver meds to care homes 4 hours a day so am on the road alot in rush hour traffic. Before Ven this would be torture my driving would be rushed I would take chances on the road and be very anxious. This has totally changed and my driving is calm no road rage its really enjoyable and my interaction with the staff when delivering is positive. Not so long ago I was ready to put an end to it as the mood and anxiety was just too much so started making plans to end it. It upsets me to read in my journal just how bad it got but at the moment its as if im a different person.
Sunnysideup
10-09-19, 12:18
Yeah, it's a sneaky little bugger. I can relate, Macca, about two weeks ago I was thinking I can't take any more of this. It's bloody awful.
So still plodding along but not without some negatives. Anxiety is at its worse am and begins to fade during the day and is gone while at work. Evenings is still the best time for me when I feel relaxed. It says take Ven with food but I can't eat am so not sure how this affects the meds, does anyone know ?.
I think this is the only med I have ever taken that I can feel it working, is this one of the stronger ones ?.
Anyway hope you all can let me know how things are I hope your feeling some benefits.
panic_down_under
13-09-19, 12:48
It says take Ven with food but I can't eat am so not sure how this affects the meds,
Taking it with food slows its rate of absorption a little, but this isn't really significant. The recommendation is about lessening potential gastro intestinal side-effects, though I'm not convinced it makes much difference to this either.
Taking it with food slows its rate of absorption a little, but this isn't really significant. The recommendation is about lessening potential gastro intestinal side-effects, though I'm not convinced it makes much difference to this either.
Thanks I just cant face food first thing and have no tummy trouble so all good.
Its been a good two weeks now and have really been enjoying work because all the stress of it has gone so I can just relax and interact with people normally, I'm not all stressed out. For some reason today my anxiety is high and HA is bad so hope that goes as the day passes. Sleep had got better but not so last night and I wonder if food is a factor because I had Mcdonalds last night and ladt time I did I had a bad night, just a thought the two might be connected.
panic_down_under
14-09-19, 23:27
I wonder if food is a factor because I had Mcdonalds last night and ladt time I did I had a bad night, just a thought the two might be connected.
There is growing evidence our gut, its flora and what we feed it can a significant affect on mental health. It could be argued that we are really just our gut's life support system.
Whether McDonalds qualifies as food is another matter. :whistles: Their coffee is pretty good, however. :emot-nod:
Sunnysideup
15-09-19, 13:15
Hi Macca, seeking your knowledge here. I had some really good days from last Monday to Friday. Was really chirpy, on the whole. Then yesterday afternoon and today, been feeling really shit, anxious and weepy. Now 4 and a half days in. Still got energy, did park run yesterday, ut had horrible nightmares last night! Had some family stress, so I think that could be the reason for the wobble.
Also, do yo stick to the same brand of meds, and do you think it makes much of a difference?
Sunnysideup
15-09-19, 13:41
Macca, is it normal 4 and a half weeks in to be getting anxiety spikes here and there? Been feeling awful today and yesterday after several good days. Also had a horrible nightmare last night.
Yes totally normal I had a bad day yesterday but have had a couple of good weeks. I think from time to time we will always get bad days no med is going to change that. I guess the key thing is I was able to get over it fairly quickly so today is ok. Im afraid I have had some horrendous nightmares but not for the last few days so I guess I will just need to put up with them. As far as the brand goes, well I don't even look who makes them so can't really comment all I can say is they are working especially at 150mg. Don't be too disappointed if your having a few crap days the meds can't make us happy everyday if they could I would be first in line to take them.
So been up & down since Friday and not really recovered back to feeling pretty good. Morning anxiety has been high but as normal I settle at work and by evening I feel ok. Wonder if the morning is where the Ven gets low but I take 150mg as soon as I get up.
Sunnysideup
18-09-19, 11:51
I always find that morning anxiety is the last thing to go on any antidepressant. Some days it's not there, but usually it is, and like you, it gets easier throughout the day. It sorts itself out in time.
I always find that morning anxiety is the last thing to go on any antidepressant. Some days it's not there, but usually it is, and like you, it gets easier throughout the day. It sorts itself out in time.
Yes I'm sure it will settle but isn't it horrible when you often feel good in the evening then it hits you when you wake up, so disappointing and cruel.
Sunnysideup
20-09-19, 12:35
Yes I'm sure it will settle but isn't it horrible when you often feel good in the evening then it hits you when you wake up, so disappointing and cruel.
It's awful and very, very cruel. Hope you're doing better today.
Yes picked up over the last couple of days. Its only when I ask people close to me how they think im doing I realize that things have improved greatly, you dont see it when the anxiety takes over do you.
Sunnysideup
20-09-19, 13:28
Yes picked up over the last couple of days. Its only when I ask people close to me how they think im doing I realize that things have improved greatly, you dont see it when the anxiety takes over do you.
Nope! Exactly right....anxiety tells you that you've made no progress at all. It's a liar! Glad you're on the up again. I'm was a bit tired/down this morning, but have noticed when the lows come, they're manageable now.
Nope! Exactly right....anxiety tells you that you've made no progress at all. It's a liar! Glad you're on the up again. I'm was a bit tired/down this morning, but have noticed when the lows come, they're manageable now.
That's when I first noticed the meds were working for me, I was able to shrug off negative thoughts more easily and they were not so important in my mind so just got on with the day as before they would manifest into total panic and could ruin the whole day or days. Im still really enjoying my p/t work now, im so calm and a few months ago I was sitting in a lay bye in the van crying my eyes out because my gp phoned me offering help.
Enjoy the sun while we can and I hope we all have a good weekend.
Sunnysideup
21-09-19, 08:54
Enjoy your weekend :) I've woken up wobbly today, but have some fun things planned, so am just gonna get on with them and let my nervous system do its thing.
Dying_Swan
21-09-19, 14:11
Just popping in to say hi! I've been having a rocky few weeks getting onto and increasing quetiapine. Very up and down, but at least some up and not all down :D Still on 225 ven/7.5 mirt.
Maca - super happy you're still doing so well. Are you sleeping better now?
Sunny - enjoy your fun things. So important to have things to look forward to.
Enjoy the sunshine everyone x
No sleep still disturbed but just got used to it now along with the whacky dreams. What a lovely day, last of the sun for this year methinks so gonna suck it up before it goes.
Sunnysideup
22-09-19, 08:27
Just popping in to say hi! I've been having a rocky few weeks getting onto and increasing quetiapine. Very up and down, but at least some up and not all down :D Still on 225 ven/7.5 mirt.
Maca - super happy you're still doing so well. Are you sleeping better now?
Sunny - enjoy your fun things. So important to have things to look forward to.
Enjoy the sunshine everyone x
Thank you, went drumming yesterday eve, it was great, so much fun I actually forgot to check my mood.
Sunnysideup
22-09-19, 08:28
No sleep still disturbed but just got used to it now along with the whacky dreams. What a lovely day, last of the sun for this year methinks so gonna suck it up before it goes.
Also still having really weird sleep. Sometimes okay. Sometimes really restless and wakeful. And the dreams....they are mad.
Also still having really weird sleep. Sometimes okay. Sometimes really restless and wakeful. And the dreams....they are mad.
Just got up after a set of 3 mad upsetting dreams my wife had to wake me while having one as I was trying to push someone away in the dream but she said I was almost thumping her. Did have a fair bit of cheese and nuts before bed so dont think that helped.
My god those dreams are disturbing.
Dying_Swan
22-09-19, 14:03
Yes, the dreams are very strange, and so vivid it takes a while to come around and realise they aren't real. I struggle with knowing whether they mean anything or not, or what they mean. There's lots of dream interpretation stuff online but I'm not sure if I believe it. Sorry to know you had a rough night Maca, and hope tonight is more peaceful for you.
Drumming sounds great Sunny, glad you enjoyed it.
Not sure I would want any of my drug induced dreams analyzed, they are so mad I think I would be sectioned 😀.
Dying_Swan
22-09-19, 14:36
Not sure I would want any of my drug induced dreams analyzed, they are so mad I think I would be sectioned .
:roflmao: Yep, I'm with you there
Sunnysideup
23-09-19, 07:27
:roflmao: Yep, I'm with you there
Oh God, me three.....I've written some down to take to counselling but I don't wanna freak the woman out! :D
Sunnysideup
25-09-19, 13:34
So Macca, just being nosey here, really. How many different antideps have you been on, and for how many years? I have only been on Citalopram before, up to 20mg, went on and off it about three times over 11 years. So Venlafaxine is only my second one. I have to say, this experience is different...I remember when I first took cit, it was very sedating almost straight away.
Was on Cit for 4 years can't remember dose but just stopped and had horrific head zaps for months after. Then a few year with no meds then total meltdown and was put on Mirt upto 30mg for the last 3 years started Ven and reduced to 15mg along with 150mg Ven. Ontop of that been on Zopliclone for 3 years as well on and off as I use it a a mild sedative. Ven is the only one that I can actually feel working with only mad sometimes disturbing dreams as a side effect.
In my younger years I used street drugs and alcohol as self medication but stopped all that in my late 20's I'm now 55yrs and not touched alcohol or street drugs since then.
Sunnysideup
26-09-19, 08:08
Was on Cit for 4 years can't remember dose but just stopped and had horrific head zaps for months after. Then a few year with no meds then total meltdown and was put on Mirt upto 30mg for the last 3 years started Ven and reduced to 15mg along with 150mg Ven. Ontop of that been on Zopliclone for 3 years as well on and off as I use it a a mild sedative. Ven is the only one that I can actually feel working with only mad sometimes disturbing dreams as a side effect.
In my younger years I used street drugs and alcohol as self medication but stopped all that in my late 20's I'm now 55yrs and not touched alcohol or street drugs since then.
I definitely modified my nervous system with street drugs in my youth......mostly herb and the fifth letter of the alphabet :D I'm fifty now.
I have officially stopped drinking alcohol since April. It really doesn't help me to stabilise, I suddenly realised that. I miss a glass of bubbly stuff, but I'd rather be sane, is how I look at it.
Yes I was told years ago that the speed I took in the rave days could affect my mood/anxiety in later years. Was fun at the time but all I have done is suppress any causes of anxiety to the point that I do not know the original cause of my problems. Therapy pulled some of it out but im sure stuff still needs dealing with.
panic_down_under
28-09-19, 00:38
My god those dreams are disturbing.
I suspect the dreams are not much different to what we usually unconsciously dream and all the meds do is alter the dreaming state enough to bring them into conscious awareness.
This hit my inbox this morning and may be of interest: The science behind lucid dreaming (https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/326496.php)
Sunnysideup
28-09-19, 12:42
I suspect the dreams are not much different to what we usually unconsciously dream and all the meds do is alter the dreaming state enough to bring them into conscious awareness.
This hit my inbox this morning and may be of interest: The science behind lucid dreaming (https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/326496.php)
Ooh that looks interesting.......
So now have been talking rubbish in my sleep and leg jerks, wife said I kicked her, no it wasnt on purpose.
Not bothered about this as im asleep but just reporting it as a side affect, on the whole my sleep is better and I no longer get up 3 or 4 times and sit downstairs wide awake.
Yey, anxiety very high yesterday and this morning not had this for a good few weeks. Gonna ride it out, will be interesting how long it lasts as normally it can go on for weeks.
Bad HA and wretching when cats were fed as the smell makes me feel sick when anxiety is high.
On a snake this morning lets hope its a short one.
Still on a snake but ladders come in the afternoon into evening. Not going jump up on meds just yet so I see my gp in 2 weeks and will have a chat about it then.
Sorry to hear you’re having a setback Maca. Did anything set it off? Hope you’re a bit better today.
I’m noticing something strange. Most days over the last week i’ve woken up calm but then my mood has been terrible all day, but the last couple of days I have woken feeling really on edge and jittery but my mood has been good. Very confusing and hoping it’s just the meds settling in still but it’s been nearly 6 weeks now on 225mg so I really don’t know. I’ve just picked up my prescription for quetiapine which I start tonight 🥴
I think I get jittery weekends now weather has changed so I kind of miss work as that is full on so my mind is focused. Not that bothered about it as I know it goes so not going to feel disappointed like I normally do. Good luck with the new med.
Dying_Swan
01-10-19, 13:18
Damn those snakes. I really don't like this time of year and just want summer to continue. I think you're right Maca, don't read too much into it. Anxiety can be so self-fulfilling, and the more you worry about it, the more anxious you get. Hopefully it's just a little blip and you'll soon be climbing the ladder again.
Jo - good luck with the quetiapine. I hope you'll find it will stabilise things a bit for you.
Sunnysideup
02-10-19, 07:20
Yes, dam those snakes....but you'll be on a ladder again soon. I always find at this time of year I get a bit blippy...the days are getting shorter, or rather, the amount of daylight is dwindling. There's a bit of an adjustment period. Good idea to just weather the storm, sending good wishes x
Yes I can see the change on my mood since summer has said goodbye. I get frustrated when I cant get out in the garden but today, although cold, Its sunny so Im sitting outside feeling better. I guess things will get better once ive adjusted to the change in seasons.
Dying_Swan
03-10-19, 00:43
Hope you had a better day Maca. I got the garden tidied a bit, and it was good to see the sun even though it was cold. A long time ago, a therapist advised me to get as much light as possible at this time of year, so candles, lighting the fire, lamps etc. It definitely takes time to adjust. Hang in there :)
Same old pattern but anxiety in mornings less so then once im at work I begin to feel ok, by 6pm when I deliver to the last few care homes I feel rather chirpy.
Sunnysideup
05-10-19, 09:43
Same old pattern but anxiety in mornings less so then once im at work I begin to feel ok, by 6pm when I deliver to the last few care homes I feel rather chirpy.
That's good to hear. I'm also having some morning anxiety again...I swear it's the darker mornings and evenings. Out to get some light and run it off. Have a good weekend xxx
Sunnysideup
06-10-19, 20:09
How was your weekend Macca? Are you looking forward to work?
How was your weekend Macca? Are you looking forward to work?
In no mans land all weekend so neither up or down just not motivated and done very little. Yes looking forward to work to focus my mind. How about yourself ?
Sunnysideup
07-10-19, 13:33
In no mans land all weekend so neither up or down just not motivated and done very little. Yes looking forward to work to focus my mind. How about yourself ?
Really anxious day yesterday has kind of spilled over into today, although I do believe it's lessening now...also looking forward to doing Weds/Thurs/Fri mornings this week. I think it'll be good to be around people and working again.
Sunnysideup
07-10-19, 13:37
Macca has your anxiety subsided again?
Macca has your anxiety subsided again?
Yes it has much more level and not taking over the day. Good to get back to work hope it goes ok its like therapy for me.
Sunnysideup
07-10-19, 19:48
I agree, I need some distraction now, as well as relax time. Actually looking forward to it.
Great to hear I think once your settled it will be good for your recovery.
Just thinking what I should do if DR suggests a Ven increase to 225mg when I see her on Tuesday. Looking at Jo & DS increase I'm not sure its going to help but on the other hand I am not sure about adding another drug so not sure what to think really.
Sunnysideup
09-10-19, 15:39
Do you feel like you need it, Macca?
Just remember everyone responds differently to increases. I react badly when I increase on anything, not just the ven. I also went up to 225 quite quickly whereas you have been on 150 for quite a while so your body is probably more used to it and the increase side effects might not be so severe for you. Maybe even just a small one to 187.5 and see how you go 🙂
Yes I might suggest a smaller increase and see what happens. I feel I could do with an increase as the intensity of the last one has leveled out so dont feel it working as much.
Dying_Swan
10-10-19, 13:51
Hey Maca. I wouldn't read too much into how Jo and I have been with the 225, as these drugs are so individual and you've done so well on the 150. Maybe you could add 37.5mg in the evening and see how you get on before going to 225.
Yes I wonder if a low dose at night might help with the morning anxiety, will see what Dr thinks on tuesday.
Dying_Swan
12-10-19, 14:01
Good luck with it and let us know how you get on. Hopefully, if you increase, you might find the night dose knocks the morning anxiety on the head.
Ven has been increased to 225mg so will see how that goes. Mirt down to 7.5mg then plan is to stop the Mirt.
Good luck with the increase Maca hope it helps 🤞
Good luck with the increase Maca hope it helps 🤞
Always get abit anxious when changing dose but im sure it will be fine I can always drop down again if it does not work out.
Dying_Swan
16-10-19, 01:12
Good luck Maca. We're all different of course, but I found 150 to 225 much easier than 75 to 150, not sure why. Really hope it gives you a boost. Keep us posted :)
Sunnysideup
16-10-19, 17:14
Good luck Macca, let us know how it goes :)
Got bloody sleeping torrets now wife says im shouting all sorts of crap. As long as I dont start doing it at work im ok with it 🤪 im going bonkers.
Sunnysideup
17-10-19, 13:53
Got bloody sleeping torrets now wife says im shouting all sorts of crap. As long as I dont start doing it at work im ok with it 浪 im going bonkers.
:D...Sorry to laugh, but just wondering what it is you are shouting out?? Yeah, you really don't wanna be doing that at work. Unless dealing with horrible people......
panic_down_under
17-10-19, 23:03
Got bloody sleeping torrets now wife says im shouting all sorts of crap. As long as I dont start doing it at work im ok with it 🤪
Do you often sleep at work? :winks:
im going bonkers.
:welcome: to the other 99.9999% of humanity. :wacko:
Its just random stuff with some swearing, I was shouting Nurse the other night it is hilarious and often I am kind of half awake so can hear it but can't stop it. Not going to read too much into it just let it happen I don't care I'm half asleep.
Do you often sleep at work? :winks:
:welcome: to the other 99.9999% of humanity. :wacko:
If I stop posting then I have started sleeping at work and im sure it will be in the local news, man crashes van into tree while shouting swear words 😀.
Dying_Swan
18-10-19, 14:03
Apart from the night time shouting, how's it going?
Ok, anxiety am but work has been great into evening. Sleep is poor but im not tired in the day so must be getting sleep.
Dying_Swan
18-10-19, 21:26
That sounds hopeful. Are you taking the 225 all at once or in split doses? I kind of wonder if a split dose might help with the morning anxiety?
Doc wouldn't split dose saying it wouldn't help but I think its due to cost of two meds of the same, who knows.
Dying_Swan
20-10-19, 14:15
As far as I know, the immediate release version is much cheaper than XR, so they could have added 75 IR in the evening, although I'm not sure if that would be metabolised too quickly to help with the morning anxiety. Still, you've done well with the once daily dose so far, so fingers crossed :)
Almost a week into increased dose and not doing too bad just the usual raised anxiety which I get but I think thats in my head more than the actual med. Feel abit wired again but that went before so early days still. Down to 7.5mg of Mirt for last week but have not noticed any changes so thats going well but I still get the munchies about an hour after taking it.
Got the sleeping thing back where I wake up after a couple of hours wide awake so its back to sitting in summer room stroking cats and drinking milk. Must be Ven increase as this is what happens before so it will fade, cats are getting lots of attention so they are happy.
Sunnysideup
25-10-19, 08:46
cats are getting lots of attention so they are happy.
I bet they love it! Jammy cats. Hows it going now?
I bet they love it! Jammy cats. Hows it going now?
Slept well last night, I get about 4 bad nights then a couple of good ones. Its not bothering me as the days are good of late.
Dying_Swan
26-10-19, 00:07
Sounds good Maca, and I think not stressing about the sleep is half the battle. Glad to hear you're doing ok.
Dreading next week as I have the week off but I really just want to work its good therapy for me. Never in my life have I felt happier at work than at home. Not sure thats a good thing.
Dying_Swan
26-10-19, 14:38
I can understand that. I've had a couple of times in my life where I've been pretty anxious during annual leave and just wanted to go back to work. I think the structure can be important as well as getting out regularly. Maybe you could plan things to do so that you make sure you still have some sort of routine?
So far to try and enjoy my A/L I have been Lamar walking, Cat cafe for afternoon tea and today its Flotation tank in Hove, just hope I dont have a panic attack in pod.
Dying_Swan
01-11-19, 09:45
Sounds like you have lots of nice plans. What is Lamar walking? And how was the flotation tank? Hope you're doing ok :)
Sounds like you have lots of nice plans. What is Lamar walking? And how was the flotation tank? Hope you're doing ok :)
You all walk on the south downs with Alpacas on a lead but I had a big Larma called Skippy. My wife didn't like the flotation tanks but I loved it, total darkness with sounds of waves it was like floating in space. When the hour was up the lights slowly come on, it took a while to get the senses to fire up once out but I felt so relaxed. Different but I prefer my local Thai massage which hurts but is amazing after.
Dying_Swan
02-11-19, 10:08
I think Id panic in a flotation tank too, but I'm glad you enjoyed it! Now the alpaca and llama walking sounds brilliant! I had no idea you could do that sort of thing. Haven't had a massage in years...love them though. So pleased you're doing lots of fun things :)
Yes but have to force myself to do these things but glad I done them. Looking forward to going back to work and getting into routine again. Hope you Jo and Sunny are ok its all up and down isnt it.
Dying_Swan
09-11-19, 13:36
Hey Maca. I'm alright thanks. How are you getting on?
It's been OK, Ven increase has kicked in at last so very happy at work just struggle at home when I have time to think.
On the whole it's going OK.
Dying_Swan
10-11-19, 15:08
Really glad you're doing ok. I think weekends are harder sometimes, something about the structure of week days seems to make things a bit easier. Distractions can be helpful I think. Is there something you enjoy doing that you could do when you're not working?
Yes things I used to like doing are coming back slowly so this weekend has been ok as I have been working with wood putting oak trim around hall floor so my mind has been occupied.
Sunnysideup
10-11-19, 18:12
Yes Macca, all good, up and down as per, but generally okay. Just been taking lots of rest after going back to work. You ok?
Dying_Swan
10-11-19, 20:07
That's fab. It sounds like you're feeling more motivated which is always a good sign :)
Yes Macca, all good, up and down as per, but generally okay. Just been taking lots of rest after going back to work. You ok?
Hey good to hear from you, yes up and down isnt it but on the whole I feel alot better. My increase with Ven kicked in after a couple of weeks so happy with this dose. Glad work has been ok for you.
Keep smiling
Hi all, glad you are doing ok. I’m much better, still have the odd blip but they don’t last long and not so intense which is great. :)
Hi Jo
Sounds positive, lets hope we are all on the ladders.
Hi all,
Very quiet here so how are you all doing. I hope your like me and post less when I feel things are better.
Still plodding along with the odd blip :). I’m in the middle of one now actually. Psychiatrist wanted me to increase my quetiapine to 100mg a couple of weeks ago but was feeling well on 75mg so stuck with it....then I applied for a job and had an interview on thursday this week via skype in front of three people in the US. I was a bit of mess with nerves for a few days leading up to it and I don’t think it went too well and have been hard on myself ever since. Perhaps it was too soon, the psychologist I saw at CMHT said she didn’t think I should look for work until at least the New Year. I decided to increase to 100mg in the end so will see how it goes :shrug:
Well you did it that's something and a good test of nerves. Maybe the stress of going for jobs at this time might not help with your recovery for now. Try to pull the positives out of it rather than be hard on yourself, going for a interview in any mental state is bloody stressful so well done. Nice to hear from you.
Dying_Swan
25-11-19, 14:20
Hey :)
nice one Jo. That must've been stressful. Good luck with the 100mg. Maca, how are things? I'm plodding along, up and down as ever, but seeing psych tomorrow so will see what they want me to do. I took myself off mirtazapine last week because it stopped helping with sleep, but was helping a lot with eating cake...:D
Hey :)
nice one Jo. That must've been stressful. Good luck with the 100mg. Maca, how are things? I'm plodding along, up and down as ever, but seeing psych tomorrow so will see what they want me to do. I took myself off mirtazapine last week because it stopped helping with sleep, but was helping a lot with eating cake...:D
O the joys of Mirt and weight gain. I stopped taking it last week after a long reduction so will not be taking it again. Like you up and down but able to enjoy work again and have more motivation to do things. I feel this is
The best its going to get so guess i can't complain but mornings are still hard.
Dying_Swan
25-11-19, 23:34
Ah well done for getting off mirtazapine. That must've been hard after taking it for a long time, and it sounds as though you're doing just fine without it. Fingers crossed that in time, the mornings will get easier.
Sunnysideup
26-11-19, 07:49
Hello all, yes, it went quiet for a bit, you all sound like you're steadily making progress. I am too, but also with ups and downs, but definitely seem to now have more days of stability than not. Well done on getting off the Mirt, Macca. I think you'll also eventually see a reduction in the morning anxiety eventually. These things can still take some time to even out.
I'm doing okay, having a mini blip these last two days but nothing too severe. Guess we can't have it good all the time, even on meds, eh?
Nothing is ever going to be perfect on the meds is it, but I am grateful for the changes so far.
Well I got the job! 😀 just proves I didn’t give myself enough credit! They were very impressed how I came across apparently.
I don’t start until 17th December and it will just be training to start with until mid January. It’s a work from home job with flexible hours, minimum 10 a week up to 37.5. I can choose what hours I work on a weekly basis so I can fit it around childcare/personal life/blips 😆
Hey congratulations, just goes to show that your perception of how the interview went was not so.
Well done
How you all doing its getting lonely in here 😉
Dying_Swan
04-12-19, 21:55
Evening all. How are things Maca? Congrats on the job Jo, brilliant news. I'm ticking along, going up and up on quetiapine and wondering if it might work sometime :blush:
Yer OK thanks.
Had abit of trouble coming off the last of the Mirt but just stuck at it and its out of my system now. At a point now where I think this is as good as its going to get so can't really complain. Have you seen much improvement DS.
Hi guys, been a bit blippy yet again these last few days but looking at my mood journal it seems the number of good days each month is improving :) here’s hoping Christmas will be a merry one and not a blippy one!
Great to keep a journal, sometimes I look back a read the early entries and its as if someone else has written it.
My view of christmas this year is not expecting too much and looking forward to getting it out of the way.
Dying_Swan
06-12-19, 12:37
I've had periods of improvement and then crashes again. Damn those snakes! I'm off mirtazapine and considering weaning off venlafaxine too, but I know it's supposed to be hard to come off so might run that one past the psych. Journals are definitely a helpful way to keep track of things, and I sometimes find it useful to write down things I'm worried about and then put it down. As for Christmas, it's just coming round too soon! Glad you guys are doing ok.
panic_down_under
06-12-19, 21:29
I'm off mirtazapine and considering weaning off venlafaxine too, but I know it's supposed to be hard to come off so might run that one past the psych
Venlafaxine has a reputation for being very difficult to discontinue. It is usually best to change to a longer half-life AD such as fluoxetine and to wean if that rather than venlafaxine directly. Or, if you want to try another AD to switch to it from venlafaxine. That shouldn't be a problem unless switching to a MAOI which is unlikely (though they often work when other ADs don't).
Dying_Swan
07-12-19, 19:06
Thanks PDU. The CPN has warned me off taking myself off ven so I'll wait to see what they suggest.
Main problem is now sleep, I just don't feel rested but I am not tired in the day so must be getting sleep. So I am still getting bad dreams and sometimes wake up sweating if its a bad dream then I have to get up and sit downstairs until I have calmed down. Daytime is better but I only feel relaxed when at work, when im in the house I feel like a cadged animal and cant sit still for long.
Guess you cant have it all perfect.
Dying_Swan
08-12-19, 17:17
That's difficult, sleep is so important, but as you say you must be getting some. Is there anything you could do when you're not at work to help with agitation? Walking, swimming, running etc? Might also help with sleep.
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