View Full Version : How to change overthinking.
Hi,
As many of you know this overthinking of everything is part of anxiety but I just wondered how you all deal with it? For me the thought pings in my head then I dwell on it until eventually I either totally avoid the situation or try it and panic which then leads me to want to avoid it again. I'm on 30mg of cit, done CBT, counseling, been hypnotized and now feel like I am running out of things to try and help me.
Sometimes I can be ok and push through but then I dwell on it for days and make myself anxious all over again!!
I am so sick of feeling like this. Any ideas would be truly gratefully recieved. Xx
ankietyjoe
15-08-19, 11:09
Meditation deals with this directly and effectively. It's not an overnight cure, more of an ongoing re-training of the brain.
I use a breathing technique to interrupt the thoughts, the more you use it the more effective it becomes.
I've been on meds a while. I have been reading up on the breathing and relaxation it takes me ages to relax. Probably need more practise. Thanks for your responses x
ankietyjoe
15-08-19, 13:24
Meditation and relaxation techniques do take a long time to practice and perfect. They are slow burn cures, but they ARE cures. Think of it as something you have to practice for weeks/months rather than minutes and then give up.
DustingMyselfOff
15-08-19, 18:39
Thanks for the reminder, Joe. I'm still working on my meditation practices and have been slacking the past few days. Even though I have got to be somewhere in an hour, I'm going to take 15 minutes right now and DO IT!
Sue
ankietyjoe
15-08-19, 23:01
It can be 60 seconds if that's all the time you have. Once it becomes habitual and part of your life, you can do it for any amount of time, anywhere. Even in a life (or elevator in Freedomunitsİ)....
DustingMyselfOff
16-08-19, 03:45
I know you've explained it before, as have several other people, but I still am not clear on how to know if I'm on the right track with meditating. I know there are several different types with several different practices and end results, but what is it I'm trying to accomplish? I originally thought it was to totally clear my mind, but I would have to be brain dead for that to happen. the last time I saw my hypnotherapist he told me to "meditate on . . . "whatever subject we were talking about at the time. I thought I wasn't supposed to think while I was meditating so how can it have a subject matter?
When I listen to binaural beats, I get totally relaxed and even when the music stops I like to stay in silence for a while, but is that meditation? How will I know when I'm doing it right, and how will I know if what I'm doing now isn't just a waste of time if I'm doing it wrong? There probably is no "wrong" way as long as we keep trying, but I can't handle one more book that tells me to focus on my breathing. There is nothing exciting or audible or noticeable enough about my breathing to keep me focused on it for more than 30 seconds. :doh:
Sue
May I recommend downloading the Headspace app? As well as the pay components it has a really good free introduction to meditation that provides a very easy, stress free entry point. I tend to worry a lot about getting things wrong, and I found it immensely reassuring.
DustingMyselfOff
16-08-19, 06:56
Thanks! Heading there now.
Sue
Hi, I know this takes time. I settled down last night with an app on my phone but I find it so difficult to shut my brain off. Practise practise practise I suppose. I never really know if I am doing it right either.
Full of anxiety this morning again. Morning suck.
Thanks for answering me. Xx
Sorry you're feeling rough. Mornings can be awful.
I hate them at time luckily today not starting work until 11am although sometimes it's better to be up and about getting ready to start the day makes you think less xx
ankietyjoe
16-08-19, 10:47
I know you've explained it before, as have several other people, but I still am not clear on how to know if I'm on the right track with meditating. I know there are several different types with several different practices and end results, but what is it I'm trying to accomplish? I originally thought it was to totally clear my mind, but I would have to be brain dead for that to happen. the last time I saw my hypnotherapist he told me to "meditate on . . . "whatever subject we were talking about at the time. I thought I wasn't supposed to think while I was meditating so how can it have a subject matter?
When I listen to binaural beats, I get totally relaxed and even when the music stops I like to stay in silence for a while, but is that meditation? How will I know when I'm doing it right, and how will I know if what I'm doing now isn't just a waste of time if I'm doing it wrong? There probably is no "wrong" way as long as we keep trying, but I can't handle one more book that tells me to focus on my breathing. There is nothing exciting or audible or noticeable enough about my breathing to keep me focused on it for more than 30 seconds. :doh:
Sue
I'll try and do this in quickbit fashion!!
1 - Meditation isn't about emptying the mind. That's not possible, unless you're dead.
2 - Your hypnotherapist is really asking you to be mindful, not meditative. He/She may have their wires crossed.
3 - Listening to binaural beats isn't meditation, unless you decide to make it meditation......although any activity that relaxes you is hugely beneficial in the short and long term.
4 - Don't worry about success, this is corporate Nancy talking. Meditation is about just doing it, not winning it.
5 - Meditation is (and this is the big one) just the practice of re-focusing your attention on the subject of your meditation. That's it.
So, going back to this issue you have with focusing on breathing. You say that there's nothing exciting, noticeable or audible? You could put your hand on your stomach and focus on the movement. You could focus on the sensation of air passing through your nostrils, or even count during in breaths and out breaths...slowly. Or, you could focus on something completely different. Your meditation focus could even be on the binaural beats you listen to, although I would recommend perhaps finding another aural source of meditation as you're already getting benefit from what you're doing in terms of relaxation.
During the meditation, all you have to do is slowly re-focus your mind on the subject matter each time your mind wanders (which it will, repeatedly, probably hundreds of times). There's no need to mentally 'FFS I can't do this', as success is irrelevant. Remember, this is just practice. The point, is the re-focusing. It's the non judgemental re-focusing that is the 'magic' of meditation. I wouldn't even worry about knowing if or when it's working, because the response to meditation is a fundamental human response, but it's misjudged in modern times because it isn't an instant response that we're used to. The analogy I usually use is losing weight. If you spent 10-15 years becoming overweight, you would never expect to lose all that weight in a month no matter how hard you tried. Most people take a year or so? Some people take even longer...if they keep repeating that habits that got them there in the first place.
MyNameIsTerry
16-08-19, 14:13
To add to what Joe has explained, in Professor Williams book he says you will fail at first. It's a skill to be learnt and like any skill it's trial and error.
Also, trying to achieve non thought is more Transcendental Meditation. Within the context of anxiety trying to achieve this might mean you might be trying to push thoughts away to achieve this state and that tends to be counterproductive. The aim is to sit with the thoughts that are there without being sucked in by them, be the curious observer. You can steer thoughts back but you aren't trying to push them away or eradicate them. Such changes will come to the subconscious the more you study and areas of the brain change.
Learning not to be afraid of thoughts is like learning not to be afraid of symptoms. You can't eradicate them as they are part of being human, just as any thought can be, but you can change how you deal with them.
ankietyjoe
16-08-19, 14:31
To go even deeper, traditional meditation cannot have success or failure. It's merely a practice where you transition from one way of processing thought and sensation to another. It's the practice that matters, so if you practice you can't fail.
DustingMyselfOff
16-08-19, 18:12
Thanks Joe and Terry.
That helps a lot, but my novice mind already has one question for you: before I start meditating, should I consciously choose a topic to meditate on, or should I just relax and see where my mind goes? And then wherever it goes, do I try to stay on one of those dozen thoughts or do I let it keep having random thoughts and see if it (my brain) chooses to focus on one more than the others?
Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I feel like I should choose a visual, or a mantra, or a subject matter to keep steering my thoughts back to. Otherwise I will have dozens of thoughts in my 15 minute session and then my meditation would be nothing more than my normal state of mind except I'd be sitting still and my eyes would be closed.
Sue
ankietyjoe
16-08-19, 18:25
No it's best to pick ONE thing to focus on, and for that to be your go to subject of focus. The reason breathing is usually used is that it's always there, wherever you are.
When your mind wanders, you gently re-focus on the subject of your meditation.
It's best to have one spot where you meditate for most of the time, and it's also good to get into a routine of doing it at specific times of the day. Once in the morning and once in the evening for example. You'll only need to do 5-10 minutes to start with, but that routine is the core foundation to build on. You can choose to do it anywhere else at any time as well, but keep that routine you set for yourself.
I would still urge your breathing to be the subject of your attention, unless there's something specific about it that really bothers you.
DustingMyselfOff
16-08-19, 18:49
Well since the majority of meditators suggest breathing to be the focus, apparently it must be successful and the preferred method of those who teach meditation, so I will try, yet again, to let that be my focus. But I don't hear my breathing, and I don't feel the air passing through my nose, and I find my mind wanders within 15 seconds when I try to focus on the rise and fall of my stomach and chest. So I guess THAT is precisely what I need to practice..... bringing my focus back to my boring breathing even though I get frustrated with it and look for something more stimulating to focus on.
I'm going to be a hard nut to crack on this breathing technique, but all the successful meditators can't be wrong.
Sue
ankietyjoe
16-08-19, 18:57
Your mind wandering every 15 seconds is completely normal. Even wandering after 5 seconds is normal. Remember, it's the practice of re-focusing that's the point, not the actual focus itself. If you get frustrated, acknowledge the frustration and simply re-focus. Your awareness of that frustration is part of the process, and probably a source of historical anxiety.
DustingMyselfOff
16-08-19, 19:11
Your mind wandering every 15 seconds is completely normal. Even wandering after 5 seconds is normal. Remember, it's the practice of re-focusing that's the point, not the actual focus itself. If you get frustrated, acknowledge the frustration and simply re-focus. Your awareness of that frustration is part of the process, and probably a source of historical anxiety.
That may be one of the most reassuring, instructional suggestions I've heard, thank you!
Sue
Think I might try this myself, thanks guys.
Just tried 10 minutes of laying back with eyes closed, focused on my breathing and if nothing else, it has brought my attention to just how tense my body is. We become inured to our bodies being like a taut spring, it's our normal but hopefully with some practice...
ankietyjoe
17-08-19, 00:09
Just tried 10 minutes of laying back with eyes closed, focused on my breathing and if nothing else, it has brought my attention to just how tense my body is. We become inured to our bodies being like a taut spring, it's our normal but hopefully with some practice...
It's an interesting observation because the body can effectively work in a feedback loop. If you're used to being tense you won't notice it, but your CNS will. Therefore your CNS will react, making you more tense...etc etc.
You may find the 'Body Scan' by Mark Williams useful. It's a guided mindful meditation that just observes bodily sensation.
MyNameIsTerry
17-08-19, 01:57
Well since the majority of meditators suggest breathing to be the focus, apparently it must be successful and the preferred method of those who teach meditation, so I will try, yet again, to let that be my focus. But I don't hear my breathing, and I don't feel the air passing through my nose, and I find my mind wanders within 15 seconds when I try to focus on the rise and fall of my stomach and chest. So I guess THAT is precisely what I need to practice..... bringing my focus back to my boring breathing even though I get frustrated with it and look for something more stimulating to focus on.
I'm going to be a hard nut to crack on this breathing technique, but all the successful meditators can't be wrong.
Sue
When I started my therapist gave me some by their supervisor. There were 3 different breathing inductions that you can start with for a few minutes each and then you enter a longer period of just sitting observing your thoughts. If you thoughts starting dragging you into thinking about things or into areas you want to steer them back but can't you redo some of the breathing induction to stop your mind thinking about thoughts and distract it by focussing on a part of the body again. The same can be achieved with anything and is used in other distraction techniques.
The mind will wander more because a) you are in an overthinking state in general and b) you notice your thoughts more now than you did before being anxious. Professionals have been saying for a while that the mind is much busier than they realised (the more recent 'Mind Pops' springs to mind) and we largely don't hear this background noise. Anxious people notice is for the same reasons they notice every buzz or ache in their body, sensitisation due to the CNS being in a higher state.
Has anyone heard of TRE (tension and "trauma" releasing exercises)? It's a new relaxation technique for those who have no patience with mindfulness and who are too fidgety to meditate (not my words). It comprises a series of movements that encourage the muscles to shake with the idea that this will help to release the tightness in the body which is caused by stress.
TRE workshops are apparently springing up everywhere (at £80 an hour!) I'd better start saving up!!:D
ankietyjoe
17-08-19, 19:39
Has anyone heard of TRE (tension and "trauma" releasing exercises)? It's a new relaxation technique for those who have no patience with mindfulness and who are too fidgety to meditate (not my words). It comprises a series of movements that encourage the muscles to shake with the idea that this will help to release the tightness in the body which is caused by stress.
TRE workshops are apparently springing up everywhere (at £80 an hour!) I'd better start saving up!!:D
Those that are too fidgety or impatient to meditate are ironically the ones that should probably practice it the most.
It's the idea that there's a quick fix out there that keeps people in a state of anxiety for decades as they're always chasing something that doesn't exist.
TRE may well offer some kind of physical release/benefit, but that very core psychological issue that you believe prevents meditation being right you is the same mental habit that keeps you anxious in the first place.
How do you fit meditation into your busy lifestyle as a carer, Joe? Especially when your partner and children are all demanding your time.
ankietyjoe
17-08-19, 22:05
How do you fit meditation into your busy lifestyle as a carer, Joe? Especially when your partner and children are all demanding your time.
10-15 minutes in the morning and 10-15 minutes in the evening just before bed. I think there's a misconception that it takes hours to be beneficial.
This is why I mentioned to Sue that it's best to have a portable and quick focus point (breathing) and a regular spot to meditate in. It takes me 30 seconds to sit down and prepare myself.
I will also take the odd moment here and there when the opportunity arises. For example if I'm picking my partner up from work and I'm sitting in the car I can start to take some deep breaths and close my eyes. Even 30-60 seconds of doing this can be remarkably beneficial once your brain learns what you're trying to do. I especially like to do this if it's raining!
Being self employed helps too I guess. I'm often home alone when the kids are at school and the misses is at work.
Something else to ponder about meditation is that it has been practiced for thousands of years across multiple continents. A lot of the therapies you see crop up are (as you pointed out) trying to monetise or speed up treatment. The 'problem' with meditation is that it's free, so it's commonly pushed as an overly spiritual 'woo-woo' solution, but it's actually remarkebly scientific. You are simply undoing all the nonsense that your brain learns to respond to in modern life.
MyNameIsTerry
18-08-19, 01:45
Has anyone heard of TRE (tension and "trauma" releasing exercises)? It's a new relaxation technique for those who have no patience with mindfulness and who are too fidgety to meditate (not my words). It comprises a series of movements that encourage the muscles to shake with the idea that this will help to release the tightness in the body which is caused by stress.
TRE workshops are apparently springing up everywhere (at £80 an hour!) I'd better start saving up!!:D
I tried relieved tension in a muscle through shaking...they will never let me in that library again :ohmy::blush:
Not heard of it but all you need is an acronym and off you go in mental health circles :winks:
Oh I agree, Terry! Rip Off "Therapy" is flourishing but the very best treatment is free and available around the clock. I also think common sense plays a big part too-it doesn't have to be complicated.
I suppose that I follow the same principles as you, Joe and try to make the most of those quiet moments.
ankietyjoe
18-08-19, 10:01
The core is the scheduled meditation, even if it's once a day. I find it to be most beneficial just before bed when you're most likely to have that 10-15 minutes.
Hi,
Sorry I haven't been on been to work all weekend just able to grab 10 mins now.
I downloaded an app and have been doing it the last couple of nights. Enjoyed it to be honest. But I'm a bit confused. Do I focus in on my breathing or concentration on the guy talking to me? Sorry if this seems like a stupid question.
When my mind has been thinking of other things I have brought it back in to focus but wasn't sure what to focus on more.
I think I need to have this continuously in my routine everyday and now I understand it's not a quick fix and takes time and practise.
Do you guys listen to the same one or change it up a bit? So many questions.
Thanks for all the info. Xx
ankietyjoe
18-08-19, 20:29
Guided meditations are just that, guided. Usually you'll have the find one that works for you.
Solo meditation is something you do without the guidance of anything pre-recorded. And in my experience, is more effective but harder to practice.
If you're doing a guided meditation, listen to the voice. If you're not, focus on your breathing (or whatever you've chosen to focus on).
MyNameIsTerry
19-08-19, 01:48
Usually the guide will be telling you what to focus on e.g. now do this breathing exercise and notice xyz, now sit and notice your thoughts as they come & go. The voice then gives you breaks so it doesn't interrupt your attempts to perform the exercises.
That makes sense now thank you. I'm going to do this at least once a day. I can easily do the evening but I am going to try to fit in another time too. X
ankietyjoe
19-08-19, 11:19
Good luck, it should really help over time.
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