Walkin' on rabies

[MothFir]

Hi, new to the forum, but a veteran of the anxiety. I've had OCD for over 35 years but just got started on the rabies flavor a few years ago after a dog bit me and I read more than I ever should have about the disease. At the time I had a couple months of OCD-ish rabies anxiety, then it went away. Now I'm in the middle of a relapse of contamination fears, with rabies at center stage. I do feel I'm making progress as I've quit researching various disease-transmission scenarios and have moved into ways of combating what is clearly an anxiety issue. (No one on earth genuinely has the number of rabies exposures I've worried about in the last 4 weeks.) I've increased my SSRI, joined a local support group, and have my first-ever OCD therapy session next week. I've also taken some comfort in the advice here, especially this thread (https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?231792-Real-rabies&highlight=real+rabies).

However, I was just curious if anyone with rabies anxiety ever had this specific issue: I'm really afraid of hiking/walking/running and unwittingly stepping on a downed bat that recently died of rabies, getting still-infectious tissue or saliva on my shoes, and somehow transmitting the virus to myself or someone else via open wound, mucous membrane, etc. Now, I've come to the point where I acknowledge that although this is not impossible, it is infinitely less likely than the probability of me being killed in a car crash or kidnapped by terrorists on the way to the trailhead (risks I freely take). I am trying to learn to live with that uncertainty, like I live with so many other uncertainties. Unfortunately, I am still on edge whenever I'm outdoors (and I love the outdoors), and constantly check 'suspicious'-looking leaves and twigs in my path to make sure they're not bats. And let me tell you, a lot of leaves look like bats, at least to the anxious mind.

I suspect the best ERP treatment for this is going hiking/running and not doing the compulsion of checking 'suspicious' objects, and I'm currently working on that. But if anyone has any other suggestions or encouraging words, I'd love to hear them. Thanks!

[Carys]

Hi,

I'm afraid I'm not going to be helpful with your query, but I can do the encouraging words; I genuinely wanted to congratulate you on your proactive approach to tackling your OCD and contamination fears. You really have taken ownership of the situation and deserve nothing but success as an outcome of your awareness and effort. I have to admit that this though -
And let me tell you, a lot of leaves look like bats, at least to the anxious mind....did make me laugh...a lot!

[MothFir]

Thanks - I wish I'd been more proactive years ago, as I've wasted a lot of time and energy with this disorder. Better late than never!

[user007]

I certainly respect any fear, but definitely wouldn't worry about this one unless you go out bare foot. From what I've read, the rabies virus seems like your typical fragile virus. First, your shoes would prevent a bat from biking you. For extra protection, you could always wear hiking boots to better protect your ankles so you know you're completely covered. Next, if you did somehow get the virus on your shoes, you would quickly walk it off. Either it would dry or come off onto the ground as you walked. Lastly, sunlight kills the virus, so just being outside would cook it fast, too.

I've wondered about the random stepping on a bat thing from time to time but only worried about the chance for it to bite at that moment. That's why I like wearing boots. Eases my mind a lot. I had something scurry by my foot one day going in my house and worried for a second then realized nothing could get through my boot.

[MothFir]

Thanks - your points are all valid, of course. In fact the rational part of me would say that even going barefoot is no big deal, as it would be easy to know that something unusual had been stepped on. (Barefoot hiking/running isn't my thing, but I know some people do it, and I've never heard "rabies from infectious stuff on the ground" as reason not to.)

Funny story: Since my original post I went on a trail run and was doing pretty well ignoring the urges to investigate "bat-like" objects. Then at a junction I paused and watched a leaf fluttering down from a tree...which then leveled off and flew by at eye-level about 10 feet away. A bona fide bat! I've seen lots of bats during my time outdoors but this may have been the closest. I quickly fixed in my mind that there was no contact so my OCD wouldn't question it later, and that seems to have worked, as I look back on it as a cool wildlife sighting and not something to ruminate on for the next week. It's also a good reminder to quit worrying about the ground and watch where I'm going so I don't really run into something.

[Carys]

I look back on it as a cool wildlife sighting and not something to ruminate on for the next week.

Good for you ! Such a great attitude. Nearly every bat sighting IS a cool wildlife sighting - unless you are trying to handle them, which is a BIG risk of course. As for the running barefoot, is that for real ? Shoes were invented for a reason, protection for our flimsy easily damaged human feet. I can't imagine why people would do that, I mean you'd not get very far before hurting yourself ?

[Carys]

Whats your name about MothFir ? Just interested.

[MothFir]

Oh yeah, it has a bit of a cult-like following: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barefoot_running

There is validity to the argument that highly-engineered, cushioned running shoes can mask poor practice (stride length, 'landing' position of the foot, etc) that leads to chronic injuries, while a less-protected runner can tell that his/her technique is wrong right away. A lot of people have gotten into trouble going from shoes to barefoot overnight, though. Some people compromise with minimalist shoes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimalist_shoe).

I like running on sandy beaches with no shoes, but otherwise like to have normal running shoes (rabies fears or not). I will say that after running a few times a week for almost twenty years I started to have some arch and achilles tendon issues, which I first treated with cushioned inserts. That felt better in the short term but the problem persisted. When I ditched the inserts and worked on improving my stride and posture, things improved for good. So I think there's something to be said against over-reliance on fancy shoes and orthotics.

And some people even hike the 2,100-mile Appalachian Trail barefoot! https://www.amazon.com/Barefoot-Sisters-Southbound-Adventures-Appalachian/dp/0811735303. I haven't read the book, but I'm guessing that stepping on rabid bats was not a problem they regularly encountered :)

MothFir: I like moths, and I like fir trees, and MothFir made me think of a big furry moth...

[Carys]

I haven't read the book, but I'm guessing that stepping on rabid bats was not a problem they regularly encountered :smile:

:roflmao:

I'm guessing you are right !

I've seen people in those minimalist shoes, and I get that, but I just think you could get cut to shreds on rocks and glass and things with nothing.


I like moths, and I like fir trees, and MothFir made me think of a big furry moth...

That's why I asked, as it made think the same and I'm a moth-lover.

[MothFir]

Cool - moths often get overshadowed by butterflies, but they’re actually more interesting (to me).

[MyNameIsTerry]

Wearing shoes fearing stepping on rabid bats is a bit like being fine running barefoot but wearing a helmet to avoid those flying snakes :winks:

Now a hybrid fir tree moth, considering the size of fir trees, that's one for a monster movie! :ohmy::yesyes:

[golddustgirl1000]

I understand the concern :/ I went running on the beach 2 days ago and on my way back came about 3 feet away from some sort of dead animal that was washing up on the beach... as I was approaching it just looked like a lump of seaweed so I didn’t think it was a big deal... then as I was right above it (about 3-4 feet) I noticed a lump of dark grey/ black hair, no head...maybe an opposum but I didn’t stay around long enough to check- and I was right in the path of water that was being washed back and forth..I skirted it, but now my anxious mind is telling me what if I stepped in fluids that were being washed around barefoot? I didn’t notice any cuts but I mean... I wouldn’t notice a tiny break in skin on my calloused feet....Uh I don’t know what to do- and out of nowhere my toe was itching like crazy yesterday..

[Fishmanpa]

Since when can rabies survive in salt water? :huh:

Positive thoughts

[golddustgirl1000]

I’m hoping it can’t lol

[DustingMyselfOff]

Just thought I'd add: you can get a rabies shot BEFORE you get rabies if that would make you feel safer. It's a series of 3 shots, painless. I was required to have them when I started working at the animal shelter. That won't help with overcoming the phobia, but it might lower the anxiety a bit.
Sue

[golddustgirl1000]

Lol thanks, but now I’m questioning ...

[golddustgirl1000]

My foot has been itching all week- vets in area don’t think I need to work That much about it :/

[Fishmanpa]

Again I ask... Since when can rabies survive in salt water? :whistles:

Positive thoughts

[golddustgirl1000]

I don’t know? I mean I wouldn’t think it could... but other bacteria’s do... they always tell us to not go in the ocean for a few weeks after A rain... so I’m guessing clearly something can live...

[Fishmanpa]

so I’m guessing clearly something can live...

Try again.....

Positive thoughts

[golddustgirl1000]

“Rabies can’t live in salt water.”- does that work for
You?

[Fishmanpa]

“Rabies can’t live in salt water.”- does that work for
You?

How hard was that? :shrug: Sorry to make you face facts and reality... There are no possible "yeah buts" or "what ifs" either ;)

Positive thoughts

[golddustgirl1000]

Lol it would be easier if all of me believed it...🤦🏼*♀️

[MothFir]

Lol it would be easier if all of me believed it...臘*♀️

One of the best realizations I've had during my latest OCD flare-up is that I should give up on total certainty. My brain will always find a way to doubt.

I've read through most of the rabies threads here, including yours, and I really do feel your pain. I've had the rabies obsession for about 7 months now and during that period I've been "exposed to rabies" hundreds of times. Every time I spend anywhere from seconds to days ruminating, replaying events, and a few times calling someone (who I am now on a first-name basis with) at the health department for advice. Every time I've finally concluded I probably haven't had a real exposure and I'm relieved, until the next "exposure." It really stinks because I love the outdoors and enjoy photography, which often includes camping and hiking in the dark. Now I'm on edge whenever I'm in the woods.

I am seeing a therapist, taking medication, doing ERP and all that, and overall I'm making progress. I'm trying to instantly blame my feelings of doom and dread not on real external triggers but on the same mental disorder that has in past decades caused me to obsess about house fires, relationships, and religion. As so many experts say, "It's about the anxiety, not the content."

I know it doesn't help to be told that bats don't live on the ground, or don't come out in the day, or that the virus can't survive outside the host, because I've read all the terrifying things you probably have. Sick bats might be floundering around on the ground during the day, and the virus can survive for variable amounts of time in saliva and dead tissues.

So, here's what's helped me: The fact is that almost nobody in the US dies of rabies. One to 3 people a year out of 328,000,000. And those are usually because the person ignored an exposure that you or I would never ignore. Everybody else is either not exposed or is exposed in such an obvious way that they know to get treated -- and that includes kids, apathetic people, people who know nothing about rabies or bats or anything. People like I was just a year ago: I'm 45 and since childhood I had explored the outdoors without ever thinking about rabies. Some adult probably once said, "Yeah, if you're ever bitten by an animal, let us know," but that was it.

True, every couple years someone dies of rabies and no one knows how they got it. Assuming those really are unrecognized exposures, that means your odds of getting rabies and not knowing it in any given year are about 1 in 656,000,000, if I'm calculating it right. (Scroll halfway down this page (https://waitbutwhy.com/2014/11/from-1-to-1000000.html) to help visualize one million.) So if you behave like a normal person and do not obsess about every conceivable exposure, there's a 655,999,999 chance out of 656,000,000 that you'll be just fine. Given that there's a much greater chance I'll choke to death on my next meal, I can live with those odds regarding rabies.

Bottom line, if I have a strong trigger, I try to honestly consider whether a normal person would run off and get vaccinated. If I'm not sure, I ask my poor wife, and one eyeroll is usually all I need. For a really tough one, or a truly questionable one where even an average person is not sure, I'll call my new friend at the health department to see what the protocol is. And then I take her at her word, accepting but ignoring the intrusive thoughts that try to tell me she doesn't understand the situation, or I didn't present it accurately, or she doesn't know what she's talking about, or whatever. I accept that I've done what the average citizen would do and there's a 1 in 656,000,000 chance I'm making a mistake.

Of course most of this is probably a form of reassurance-seeking and I don't want to live the rest of my life doing it. My goal is to get comfortable with uncertainty and once again be able to discern what's a real rabies exposure and what's not on my own. I'm getting better at doing that for small triggers, but for really upsetting ones this line of reasoning has helped me move on and not spend days ruminating. I hope maybe it helps you some too.

[golddustgirl1000]

Moth, thank you for understanding and fo approaching from an angle of not necessarily fighting off the thought completely, but rather embracing the likelihood- there is a chance a meator could come through my roof right now but I don’t worry about that.

Yes I’m a full-time photographer and specialize in editorial portraits specifically within nature... so yes trapsing our into a field in knee high grass- that I just found out is a home to rattlesnakes in the spring ( good thing we went in winter)....

You are right in what your conselor said- the first thing mine ever said was “anxiety had to have something to attach itself too”.

I think I struggle with numbers and statistics because I tend to be the 1%... I never have anything super bad happen- but over the past ten years I’ve had many conditions that are hard to diagnose, Benign, and what Drs tell me are 1/1000... I have 4 off and on health conditions that are “rare” but happen to be one....so much of the time ( even with this coronavirus, which I’m actually controlling my anxiety quite well on) even Id the odds are in people’s favor.. I’m usually the 1%..... but they do still help.. I just need to get my brain to not think I will be the 1%.

Lol my husband is so gracious too- now when I tell him about my rabies scare he just stares at me for a few seconds and says... “really?” 😂