View Full Version : Meds or no meds
Hi
After a number of trial and error attempts to find the right med for me, I'm wondering whether to give up on them! My psychiatrist says its up to me and has a list of others I can try and my GP says if I'm functioning, to not be on them until it becomes an issue. I am functioning (although in my past there have been times when I haven't) but it can be a mission with constant anxious thoughts and rumination... yes, I can still run about my life but it can be difficult.
My plan was to take meds to 'take the edge off' but escitalopram, sertraline and pregabalin have all given me nasty side effects or just not been effective and often caused more drama due to my huge spike in anxiety when I take them.
My next script I have started yesterday is Vorioxetine/Brintellix which is meant to have a limited side effect profile. As you know, nothing is ever a quick fix and I just want to make the right decision...but it takes weeks to know if something will work or not.
Anyway, thanks for reading and any words of wisdom will be gratefully received.
L
Hi Lisa
I was on vortioxatine for 5 weeks but bailed on it. I should of given it longer.
From what I got told it's the newest AD from Denmark and supposed to be real good so I'd stick to it and see what goes down.
I think it depends on each person's response and meds certainly don't help everyone-quite the opposite in some cases.
I've been off meds for about 5 years. Agitation has always been an issue with me and I found I was very sensitive to many of the SSRIs. A lot of the time it's just trial and error with these drugs which isn't very reassuring but if you are lucky enough to find a med which makes some difference to your quality of life then it's all worthwhile. There's often a lot of hype about new improved anti depressants but they rarely fulfill their "promises".
I hope you find some improvement with the Vorioxetine. If you have faith in your psychiatrist and he/she is not just experimenting with different meds then this all helps.
ankietyjoe
22-01-20, 09:39
I never took meds and beat anxiety, so it would be important for you to know that you can do it without meds. Even with meds, the methods of beating anxiety are the same anyway.
I hope you find some improvement with the Vorioxetine. If you have faith in your psychiatrist and he/she is not just experimenting with different meds then this all helps.
Thanks Pulisa - I do trust my psychiatrist - she is lovely, however, there is part of me that feels a little like an experiment.
How have you managed your anxiety since being off meds?
Thanks so much, Ankietyjoe,
I love this forum. Makes you feel so much less alone, as anxiety is such a hard thing to explain to people who don't have it!
I would love to know how you beat anxiety - and how it was before and after whatever you did.
One of my main issues is that I can go through periods of being great, then as soon as I find myself ruminating again or feeling the anxiety feelings, I tell myself this is it - I'm going downhill, I'm never getting better etc etc and spiral myself down - rather than - oh crap, I feel anxious, nevermind it will pass...
Thanks Pulisa - I do trust my psychiatrist - she is lovely, however, there is part of me that feels a little like an experiment.
How have you managed your anxiety since being off meds?
I have 2 adult children on the autistic spectrum so need to be very organised. I'm very busy so have little time to ruminate which is helpful. I don't really think too much about anxiety and just let symptoms happen without reacting to them. i don't have any specific coping mechanisms other than not to give significance to feelings of anxiety. Some days are better than others but that's life!
ankietyjoe
23-01-20, 09:28
Thanks so much, Ankietyjoe,
I love this forum. Makes you feel so much less alone, as anxiety is such a hard thing to explain to people who don't have it!
I would love to know how you beat anxiety - and how it was before and after whatever you did.
One of my main issues is that I can go through periods of being great, then as soon as I find myself ruminating again or feeling the anxiety feelings, I tell myself this is it - I'm going downhill, I'm never getting better etc etc and spiral myself down - rather than - oh crap, I feel anxious, nevermind it will pass...
There is no single solution and it's not a fast process, but again this is true of recovery with or without meds.
My anxiety before recovery was horrendous, and tested as 'beyond severe' in 2007 using a combination of something called the Hamilton Test and another questionnaire that I can't recall the name of. At my worst I was confined to a single room in my flat for several months on end.
There are a couple of things you may do well looking into. The first is acceptance. Try to accept where you are now, and only live in the moment. Even if that moment is shitty. If you have anxiety, accept it. I learned over the years that the problem isn't the sensation, it's my reaction to the sensation that's the problem.
The second thing you may want to read up on is meditation, which for me was the single biggest factor in recovery. It's common to believe that meditation is a relaxation technique that should give you immediate relief, or a method of emptying your mind. Neither of those is remotely true. Meditation is the practice of not reacting to physical or mental stimulus. It's simply observing what you think or feel, and not judging it. At the same time you have a meditation focus that you use to steer your thoughts towards if you feel your concentration wander. If you can't focus on that one meditation focus, that's fine, and is also the point. When you meditate you WILL fail to keep focus, and that is the point. The point is to steer your thoughts back to the focus, not actually succeed in focussing...does that make sense? This helps retrain your brain to not react with panic, and it really works.
I also took stock of all the other factors in my life that were causing me stress, and stress is THE single biggest factor in recurrence of anxiety. Stress can include poor diet, smoking, drinking, work, relationships, money, illness, lack of sleep....anything really. I changed my diet massively and although I still enjoy the odd takeaway, I make sure I eat 10-15 portions of fruit/veg per day, more towards the veg. This is important.
It's really a holistic approach that works, there are no quick fixes at all. You have to make efforts to support your central nervous system both physically and mentally. Your brain is an association machine, and it learns through repetition. People who suffer with anxiety get into mental habits of feeling a trigger and reacting with panic. Your brain eventually learns that benign 'problems' need the fight or flight system to deal with, and this is when it turns into panic disorder. For example you may have been ok going to the supermarket at one point, but then one day you have a panic attack there. That event is recorded by the brain, and your reaction compounds and solidifies that recording. If you react with a downward spiral your brain will flag that event as 'DANGER', and prepare you accordingly next time. The flip side of this is you consciously going back to the supermarket after the panic attack with the mental mantra of 'I know this is not a dangerous situation, and I know I will be fine', even though you may feel anxiety your brain will lower the 'DANGER' flag a little until it relearns that it's not a place to avoid.
In essence, you have to play mental chess with yourself for the next several months until you help your brain unlearn all the learned fear responses.
My life is 95% normal now, there are few things I get truly anxious about, and I never have panic attacks any more. Even if I did, I'd be fine after 10-15 minutes and carry on an normal.
Thanks so much for your detailed reply - I appreciate everything you said.
I'm in my 40's now and have been in the anxiety game for many years - I was really helped the first time around with Dr Claire Weekes books, so I know deep down acceptance is key. I just can't seem to get there. Anxiety is scary and I can't seem to get out of that. I also used to suffer panic attacks but for some reason and some way, I lost my fear of them and since don't have them or if I do it doesn't bother me. I'd do anything to get to this point with anxiety. It's definitely the longest road I've ever been on.
I have had the Calm and headspace apps on my phone and do use them albeit intermittently and they do help - I'm just feeling rather stuck. I'm also studying Occupational Therapy and am well versed in a holistic way of healing - during the course I have studied anatomy, physiology, neuroscience and psychiatry, so I have a solid understanding but I can't seem to apply any of it to myself. Part of me feels I've been thinking this way so long, how on earth can I ever create those new neural pathways and relearn but then other people have done it...
I truly want to be ok with having anxiety. I see a therapist once a month, I eat healthily, I've increased exercise, I do meditation - I just feel a bit stuck.
Thanks again x
It IS ok to live with anxiety though. I think you are trying too hard, Lisa. You have the knowledge and you do all the right things to lead a healthy life. You sound like a very kind and decent person who just wants to get the very best out of life. There's no reason why you can't learn to modify your reactions to stressful situations whatever age you are but ultimately it's ok to accept that you struggle with anxiety. So many people do but it makes them kinder and more empathetic than those who just blast their way through life without an apparent care in the world x
This is all very true, Pulisa. I guess when I’ve had it before I’ve got over it and lead a “normal” life. This time it doesn’t seem to be going anywhere and I don’t want to accept it. I don’t want to have to live with this. I know people have it a lot worse but it feels awful to think this is it now.
ankietyjoe
24-01-20, 11:12
Do you have too much on your plate right now? Is there an underlying 'silent stressor' that could be feeding the sympathetic nervous system and keeping adrenaline high?
I found that it can take months for adrenals to come back down again if you experience chronic stress, but meditation can help massively with this. I would also suggest losing the meditation apps as I think they're a bit too passive to be fully effective. My personal belief is that they work better as relaxation aids (not a terrible thing) than a true meditation solution.
And yeah, you may well just be overthinking this too! :D
Apart from being school summer holidays here is Aus �� yep my husband and I have been going through a very rough patch that has been extremely ongoing so this could be the silent stressor. Everything has been laid on the table though so I thought now things would calm down a bit. However like you said maybe it’s taking a while for my adrenals to settle.
Not to mention the myriad of meds I have been trying in the last year. Escitalopram, pregabalin, now vorioxetine...
MyNameIsTerry
24-01-20, 11:55
Lisa, the thing about meditation is also that regardless of what you are consciously doing it is trying to make changes to areas of the brain. Scientific studies using fMRI have shown how meditation can reduce the fear centre and increase the positive areas of the brain. Not being able to do much to help yourself in anxiety is going to hamper change but what I found was months of daily meditation made changes for me when I was at a point where I was stuck in therapy.
Six months later I found a big shift and I put this down to the changes meditation made. At this point I was able to start tackling the things that were impossible for me in therapy.
On the point Joe raised about misunderstanding of meditation I will add to the reason why people think it's about emptying the mind. That's because the West was exposed to transcendental meditation for decades which does involve this. The celebs all started jumping on this new fashion and it gained ground. Later came meditation based on different influences that look to sitting with thoughts and steering them (and the celebs jumped on this instead). And the transcendental meditation industry kind of fell apart due to internal politics.
This is all very true, Pulisa. I guess when I’ve had it before I’ve got over it and lead a “normal” life. This time it doesn’t seem to be going anywhere and I don’t want to accept it. I don’t want to have to live with this. I know people have it a lot worse but it feels awful to think this is it now.
I do respect and understand your frustration and viewpoint, Lisa. I don't have expectations from life and accept that I have anxiety and I know why so I suppose this helps. My opinion is that you could try a whole range of meds and one may help a bit/be a placebo but ultimately meds don't change your thoughts or how you deal with them as you know. Psychiatrists say that anxiety is very difficult to treat with meds (non addictive ones)-I think you have to find your own "recipe" and I'm sure short periods of mindful meditation can play a part in the overall picture of what can be perceived as recovery and maintenance of that recovery. Joe and Terry know far more about this than me x
ankietyjoe
25-01-20, 13:59
I do respect and understand your frustration and viewpoint, Lisa. I don't have expectations from life and accept that I have anxiety and I know why so I suppose this helps. My opinion is that you could try a whole range of meds and one may help a bit/be a placebo but ultimately meds don't change your thoughts or how you deal with them as you know. Psychiatrists say that anxiety is very difficult to treat with meds (non addictive ones)-I think you have to find your own "recipe" and I'm sure short periods of mindful meditation can play a part in the overall picture of what can be perceived as recovery and maintenance of that recovery. Joe and Terry know far more about this than me x
This part here is quite inciteful, and very true.
And yes, meditation and mindfulness deal directly with the mental dynamic that takes place during anxiety. It allows your mind to remember how to observe sensations with immediate catastrophising.
For example, last night I was watching Oceans 12 (where is this going I hear you ask.....), and there was one scene where a character in the film folds himself into a suitcase, which was then loaded onto a coach. I'm not inherently claustrophobic, but my mind went on an autonomous imaginary tour of what that would be like, and I had an immediate surge of adrenaline. In the past this would have led me down a mental road of trying to imagine a way out of this 'problem' that wasn't actually even happening, and this would have led me to start feeling anxiety. Instead, I kind of chuckled to myself, said a mental 'nice try' and went and grabbed myself a bag of crisps. This is where meditation will ultimately lead you (freedom I mean, not crisps*).
*Chips, in freedom units.
Vegan, organic, low salt crisps/chips, I'm sure....:)
ankietyjoe
25-01-20, 19:14
Vegan, organic, low salt crisps/chips, I'm sure....:)
Or, Pringles. :whistles:
Vegan Pringles though...
Don't ever watch Silent Witness, Joe....Or go into the espionage business...
ankietyjoe
25-01-20, 19:36
Haha I don't think I ever claimed to be vegan.....
Prawn cocktail Pringles......ftw
Haha I don't think I ever claimed to be vegan.....
Prawn cocktail Pringles......ftw
#Shudderalert
This question has come up countless times on the forum. Truly, it's an individual thing. For some they're beneficial and even life saving and for some, it doesn't help or worsens the situation.
As a non sufferer that has used meds for some depression and "scanxiety", I found it helpful. They enabled me to focus on therapy and recovery. I look at meds as a crutch while you're learning to walk again.
Positive thoughts
This part here is quite inciteful, and very true.
For example, last night I was watching Oceans 12 (where is this going I hear you ask.....), and there was one scene where a character in the film folds himself into a suitcase, which was then loaded onto a coach. I'm not inherently claustrophobic, but my mind went on an autonomous imaginary tour of what that would be like, and I had an immediate surge of adrenaline. In the past this would have led me down a mental road of trying to imagine a way out of this 'problem' that wasn't actually even happening, and this would have led me to start feeling anxiety. Instead, I kind of chuckled to myself, said a mental 'nice try' and went and grabbed myself a bag of crisps. This is where meditation will ultimately lead you (freedom I mean, not crisps*).
*Chips, in freedom units.
I love this! - thank you. I've found one of your recommendations MBSR courses - Palouse - I'll check it out .... I can see it is much deeper than Headspace but these apps are also useful due to time constraints..
I've been having terrible nausea from my new med Brintellix and actually vomited this morning so a bit fed up with the whole thing right now.
Thank you and Pulisa so much for taking time out with your advice. Very insightful x
Me again
I was on a super low dose 2.5mg and had a wonderful 3 weeks of feeling normal and hopeful and accepting. I then went to 5mg and anxiety has been creeping back again.
This is due in part to Uni starting again on Monday which although anxious about I feel my physical anxiety response is exaggerated. The butterflies all day and now the interrupted sleep and waking early is back.
It’s no wonder people feel hopeless sometimes. I have a plethora of tools and knowledge behind me but wondering when all this is going to kick in and help. I remember anxiety joe saying you play a game of mental chess for a few months - this is so true but when does it come good?!
ankietyjoe
21-02-20, 13:32
Could be weeks, could be months. It's different for everybody.
One thing I will say is that I have heard (and I don't know because I never took them) over and over again that anti depressants can make anxiety worse in the short term.
The biggest trick here though is learning to accept anxiety and allow the unpleasant symptoms happen without reacting to them. This is the 'magic bullet' to beating anxiety. If you can learn not to let the symptoms bother you, does it matter than they are happening? The paradox here is that the more you allow yourself to get used to them, the less they happen in the first place.
It's really hard, because you are dealing with a central nervous system telling you there's danger, and then ignoring it. It's almost like standing in front of a bus that's hurtling towards you and not jumping out the way. It's the same physical/system response....but that's what you really need to do for recovery.
Meditation is the most fundamental tool for learning this response as it is literally teaching your brain how to just observe sensation rather than over reacting to it.
But remember you are trying to undo months or years of learned anxiety and it's hard to undo. Anybody CAN do it, it just takes perseverance.
And I shall persevere!
I’m trying to go with it much more these days and have been reading “at last a life” which echoes much of what you have been saying. I believe this is the way. Resistance clearly doesn’t work!
It’s going to be hard going but I’m up for the challenge. Thank you 🙏
WiseMonkey
22-02-20, 06:07
The experience of anxiety and stress can be very different for each person. Many need to have some medication for a while until they can function well again. If you have a chronic illness as well as (anxiety/depression/stress), it can be difficult to deal with it all without some form of medication.
Yes it's definitely OK to live with anxiety, some of us are also genetically more susceptible to it than others. I think the key is to find some happiness in each day even if it's just something small you achieve :)
For me, meds severely decrease the number of my intrusive thoughts, the length of time I dwell on them and the emotional lows I get from them. Meds do not make them completely go away, and under times of stress they will always get worse. That’s why it is imperative that you do learn comping mechanisms to deal with them when they do arise whether you are on meds or not.
For me meds helped a lot in the beginning, could say life savers. I'm off now and not feeling great lately, so thinking of starting them again
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