Analyse your mind

[Bill]

I realise this sounds simple when I know it's not. I just think sometimes we get sidetracked from what actually causes our anxiety symptoms.

When we experience anxiety symptoms it's because of something our mind is thinking, even subconsciously.

When we see a therapist, they'll dig deep to find the root cause of your fears but it is something you can do for yourself. Once you know Exactly what your fears are, you can actually use therapy on yourself.

For instance, if someone is afraid to go out it's normally because they once experienced an attack and so are afraid it'll happen again. So in their case it's fear of experiencing an attack.

Someone may have a dog phobia.

Someone could get intrusive thoughts which scare them into reacting to them with OCD or panic.

It could be simply we're under too much stress and need to change things in our lives.

The point is we all experience panic out of fear of something but if we identify what we're thinking that scares us into having anxiety symptoms we can Gradually confront and expose ourselves to our fears so that we no longer react to them because they no longer scare us. We can then build our confidence, our self-esteem and learn to control them rather than fear controlling us.

I know it's difficult to do alone but it really is possible to overcome your fears through proving to yourself there's actually nothing to fear, learning how to keep calm, having willpower and determination and without long term use of medication so that you can live your life again. :winks:

[Gryphoenix]

Excellent post!

I just realized that the root of most of my fears and PA's was the fear of being 'Trapped', mostly in a situation rather than a small room or area or something. Having a PA was the worst because I was trapped in my own body and had to experience the racing heart and could not run away from that.

I have no idea why I have this fear though, nothing bad really happened to me to explain it. It might be hereditary though, my dad has the same fear. Could that kind of thing be passed through genes?

I can feel trapped in 'time', like when I get ready in the mornings I unconciously get incredibly anxious and hurry because I hate the feeling of not being able to get where I'm going and I feel trapped in doing so.

I can feel trapped in situations (I had a PA once while doing the dishes cause I thought I couldn't stop doing them until they were finished because it would be 'weird', no one sits out in the middle of doing dishes just to calm themselves down).

Once I realized that the 'trapped' feeling is what's been getting to me, I've been trying to face it and tell myself that nothing bad will happen.

I still need work though. A lot. But it helps. :D

[bluebottle]

" I thought I couldn't stop doing them until they were finished because it would be 'weird', no one sits out in the middle of doing dishes just to calm themselves down".

You see, you don't know that, and even if it was true, it doesn't mean you can't. See how we beat ourselves up?

[Bill]

I honestly believe it helps to analyse yourself to find the root cause because often we get sidetracked by the panic symptoms looking for a cure to an "illness" that's actually been created deep in our minds.

Once you identify the cause it's easier to remain rational about the symptoms.

In answer to your question, yes, it can be hereditary. We carry our parents genes and so can develop the same or different fears as a result.

I'm not sure why we feel trapped but it maybe a general insecurity that we're born with. I hated being left alone in the pram. Why, I don't know. I was just born with it. The key to not panicking when you feel trapped is learning a relaxation technique. As you say, don't be afraid of giving yourself a break!!! Often when I was at work and I felt like this I'd disappear into the loo to calm myself down or get some air outside.


We always beat ourselves up because we expect ourselves to be perfect all the time when we're only human! Anything less than perfect in our expectations is regarded as failure so we focus on the negative when we should be looking at what we've achieved!

[Gryphoenix]

I've suspected it was hereditary because it really didn't make much sense. The trapped thing I agree could quite easily be some kind of insecurity born within people. I mean, if we take the flight or fight thing to it's instinctive level, our ancient ancistors would probably hate being trapped because it was dangerous. Or something, I'm just speculating.

And going to the loo to get a calming break is my tried and trusty escape plan.

After I had a PA on the top of the Washington Monument because I felt literally clasutrophobic in the tight space and the incredibly packed elevator (wall to wall people and no breathing room), when we got back down I scooted off to the bathroom, washed my face and after a short time later I felt better. Though actually most of my fear on that one was the wooshy feeling in my stomach when elevators go up fast. I had no idea why I scared myself into such a high state, I think the high anticipation for about twenty minutes while waiting for the lift didn't help.

I have a lot of problems with anticipation anxiety and I've been trying to figure out the root fear to that. Again, I think it's being trapped in that time without being able to get to the event that I'm anxious about.

Thanks for the great tips, too!

Bluebottle: Aren't those thoughts the weirdest? I know how crazy it sounds but I totally believed it at the time.

[Krakers]

Here goes me being a stick in the mud again - apologies.

I just find it difficult to accept that OCD, anxiety and phobias can be thrown into one post and glossed over so liberally.

I accept (well with my probs anyway) that 99% of it is up top in the old grey matter. Acceptance doesn't prevent PA's or anxiety, self harm or compulsive behaviour.

I'm not having a go (please bear in mind that 90% of communication is non verbal, so I might not come accross my best in posts), but I disagree that such a broad brush approach can be used.

Yes, mental attitude counts for sooooooooooo much, but circumstance, upbrigning, previous encounters and a whole host of other things go into the melting pot.

My dads been telling me to "snap out of it" for 16 months. He may just as well be asking me to click my heals twice and think of home. While I've progressed far from where I started I still can't pull a rabit out of a hat.

Big achievements are gained by a step at a time. Throwing multiple different conditions into one mixing bowl I don't believe to be constructive.

Krakers.

[Bill]

Hello Krakers and Gryphoenix,

Krakers, your post is fine and you're quite right in what you say. Anxiety is complex and there are many different causes so you can't use a broad brush to cover them all as people's anxiety differ due to different causes.

Gryphoenix, your trapped feeling Isn't your route cause. It's just another symptom. When we get anxious, our flight/fight syndrome kicks in making us want to ascape. When we can't we panic because we feel trapped! I should have realised last night! Sorry.

You say your father suffered the same so it probably is in your genes. However, for the anxiety to surface there must be a route cause which isn't your trapped feeling. As Krakers rightly says, there are different causes which could be say, too much stress at work or at home, intrusive thoughts which in turn are a source of a fear or perhaps a trauma suffered long ago that we're not aware of. Often anxiety is in "worriers" but also it affects "non-worriers" so the causes can differ.

Gryphoenix, try looking at your reasons why you feel the need to hurry in the mornings. It'll be deeper than just feeling trapped. Are you putting pressure on yourself and if so why? As Kraker also says, we sometimes pick up behaviour patterns from our parents. You need to delve deeper.

No one should Keep on delving to find the source because you can go round in circles but it is helpful to identify so that a treatment plan can be created that's of most benefit. Different things are needed by different people.

In my case, I felt panicky at work and the flight/fight syndrome kicked in. I felt the need to escape because I felt trapped but the source was that I had too much stress in my life both at home and at work which tipped me over the edge. Added to that were my already existing anxiety issues I already had which also had their own sources and so needed a different approach.

However, in All cases anxiety results from our minds but for different reasons and not because we're "ill" as such. It's just the symptoms making us feel like that. :winks:

[Gryphoenix]

Hmm, really? I wonder what it is then!

Well I had my first major big PA when I was getting ready one morning for school and thus stayed home all day, practically curling up into a ball of fear because I was so hopped up on panic and adrenaline pretty much even standing up and going to another room scared me. I hated the fact that I missed school and I promised myself to never miss school for panic or anxiety ever again. My parents were quite sympathetic though but I did feel like I dissapointed them somehow by this show of weakness. I never knew anyone then that had PAs or got stuck in the house. The next day I went to school, I was terrified but I pushed through it and then that was that. I'm guessing I still have that vestigal fear of what would happen if I couldn't handle the panic and had to stay home again? (Which won't happen again, becuase even if I do panic to the max I'm not going to crawl into bed and hide, I'm still going, its' best to face one's fears that way anyway.)

Half of my fear even then was heart palpatations before I knew that they were quite common and harmless and that a lot of people had them. So some of my anxiety stemmed from that fear, even months later on a sort of slow-boiling background fear. Now I'm starting to let myself understand that it's OKAY, I'm not going to drop dead anytime I do something strenous or get excited.

[Bill]

Hello Gryphoenix,

I've tried to piece together what you've said and these are my thoughts. See what you think?

Firstly, I feel sure that because your father has similar traits, that you carry the same genes.

As you say, it would seem that you've had an underlying fear of palpitations. I think everyone has them at some point but your mind has focussed on them because they've frightened you so much.

One morning you had this really bad panic attack which was your trauma. Although you did the right thing in going back to school next day and confronted the fear, I think this need you feel to hurry to do things is somehow connected. You say...I have no idea why I have this, nothing bad really happened to me to explain it. I can feel trapped in 'time', like when I get ready in the mornings I unconciously get incredibly anxious and hurry because I hate the feeling of not being able to get where I'm going and I feel trapped in doing so.
The bad thing that's happened was the PA and it happened when getting ready for school hence this subconscious feeling to rush.

By the way, we always think it's a sign of weakness when anxiety stops us but in fact you exhibit a lot of Strength because you've never given in. Give yourself credit!

From what you've told me I think your PA acted like a trauma which is still affecting you making you rush.

You're doing all the right things but you just need to learn to relax and slow down when doing things. Trying to do things in a hurry raises your tension.

The palpitation fear you appear to be coming to terms with.

You should be proud of yourself for what you've achieved!

How does that sound? :shrug:

[Gryphoenix]

Lovely analysis, thank you! :D I'm really glad you had a listen and I could talk with someone about this.

I had no idea that a PA would be a trauma in and of itself, I usually thought they were caused by some trauma or another. It did have a pretty big impact on me. It's weird though, for a few months afterwards I was fine but in recent months when my anxiety reared its ugly head again my fears seemed to attach themselves on 'hurrying in the morning' and that. I suppose this sort of thing comes and it goes depending on our anxiety levels.

So basically all I need to do is slow down and not listen to these niggling fears? I agree though, the more I rush the more tense I get which causes me to doubt my ability to handle the situation and then we get fear and there we go.

It really doesn't feel like I achieved all that much on the outside but on the inside--yeah, I can see how far I've come. It feels like agonizingly slow baby steps though, little teeny ones...but they're steps, after all.

[Krakers]

Well, if we're going down the analysis route I'll make it short and simple. You only have a 50% max chance of inherriting any gene from a parent even if that gene plays a contributing factor which is soooooooooo unproven.

Its better to look forward than backwards, and even though I am in no way medically trained, I certainly can provide accredited results (not by Noddys school of some State in America) to validate what I am saying.

Its so easy to look to the past for an answer. Its so much healthier to take today as a starting point to getting better. You seem to be on the right track - in taking small steps I commend you. Carry on - you're doing well. Look back in a year and see where those steps have got you.

Best wishes,

Krakers.

[Bill]

Hi there,
A trauma can be "anything" that really scares and prevents us from doing as we used to.

Often we don't see the positive things we've achieved and only focus on the negative things we want to improve.

I think you've answered your problem yourself in saying the more you hurry, the more you tense up and so induce panic.

You mustn't expect to be "better" overnight. Don't be impatient! lol It takes time and with small steps but I think you have the strength to get there and I reckon you will! :hugs:

Krakers, even we don't have our parents genes as such, we will still have some of their characteristics in differing amounts added to their upbringing.

As I said in a previous post, I agree with you it's Not healthy to continually look backwards and delve for answers but I do believe it can give people a basis in which to move forwards because it can give a better understanding on the underlying causes to a sufferers problems. Different treatments work for different anxieties so you need to know what you're dealing with.

Sometimes people suffer panic attacks without even knowing why, thinking their problem IS the panic attack when it can also just be something in their past that they need to sort which causes them. For instance, something could have happened years ago which we don't regard as a trauma but it still affecting us years later.

I agree we shouldn't look backwards. It just helps to understand the underlying causes so that they can be treated so we can move forward.

[Krakers]

I promised not to take this thread off track, so I'll PM you instead.

Wise words Bill, speak soon.

Krakers.

[Bill]

Hello krakers,
Your message was fine and I've replied to it. I hope it's ok.

It's made me think though that I ought to say to others that in everything I say, it's just "My opinion". I'm not qualified and not a professional in any shape or form. I'd never want to mislead anyone, cause harm or offence.

I Don't know everything and I'm happy to learn. I may well be wrong too and so I'd rather know because I'd hate it if I gave bad advice because like krakers I just want to Try to help.

I try to be very careful in what I say because I don't want to cause worry and I certainly don't want to be a problem on here otherwise I shouldn't be here.

I'm also happy for anyone to send me a message especially if I've said the wrong thing! I just want to offer what I know and my support in the hope I may help someone.:shrug:

[Krakers]

Bill - Sorry if I seemed harsh, it certainly wasn't my intention. You've given some solid, strirling silver, bullet proof, 100% pure gold advice in the threads I've read.

Please continue to do so.

Krakers.

[Bill]

Hi krakers,

Just wanted to say what you said wasn't harsh. It was fair comment. It just made me think that I ought to say something because I wouldn't want to mislead anyone. I'm an anxiety sufferer myself. I cope but I'm still learning and you could probably teach me a few things! There's always more than one way to look at things. I try to keep an open mind and I enjoy listening to others expertise and alternative points of view.

Thank you for your kind words. Like you, I just try my best to help.

[Gryphoenix]

I want to thank you Bill for your uplifting encouragement and I think you hit it right on the money with the analisys. Sometimes all one needs is for someone to listen. It's hard to step away and be objective, for me at least, to see these things that need to be seen. I see so many people get PAs and anxiety because something terrible or tragic has happened and then there are those who lead relatively normal lives with relatively normal upbringings (me! :D) and still get hit out of nowhere. It's not exactly nowhere cause even as a kid I've been a worrier and I can see some sort of pseudo-pa's a few years before I really did get an honest one.

For example I went to Epcot at Disney and went on the Mission to Space ride? I'm not naturally claustrophobic but that scared me because they strap you into this tiny, 4-person pod and press a video screen two inches from your eyes (no kidding) and it's a centrefuge so it's like an elephant is pressing down on your chest. I was like "I want to GET OFF NOW!" Anyway it was a fun ride in the end and I enjoyed the not-so-intense parts of it but about three weeks later on a car trip somewhere I felt closed-in inside the front seat of the car about two hours into the drive and was suddenly and instantly overwhelmed with the feeling of fear and I desperately wanted to stop the car, my subconcious feelings from that ride were surfacing or something. Anyway I thought it was interesting because I didn't react with the 'second' fear of OMgosh I'm gonna die cause I'm having a PA, I just kind of observed it even though I was scared and that was that. I did have this weird depersonalization thing that night when we stayed in the hotel but I had no idea what that was so I assumed I was just being weird for no reason and shrugged it off.

I never really got this fear that much again at least not for a couple of years until I started getting PAs for real. (I was thinking that this ride might've been a trauma too but most of the reason I got PAs before was like I said fear of the heart).

I wonder though, what the difference between something like that happening with me being able to handle it and now? I see it as actually moving along with the feelings and not tensing up against it. Of course it's much more intense now, but it's a good lesson.

Now all it takes is time and practice. And believe me, I'm sure I'm going to get plenty of practice beating anx. and panic, lol! :D

Thanks for your encouragement too, Krakers!

[Bill]

Hi again,

You remember the Epcot experience in every detail because it shook you up. You could therefore say it was a traumatic experience. However, it was also I think a good therapy for you because you were "forced" to experience the panic feelings without having an option of being able to "run" because you were strapped in.
In a way, I think that would have built your confidence because it will have shown that nothing will happen to you as a result of "panic" which is why most probably you coped in the car and then went 2 years without any.

Sometimes though because we are natural worriers the panics can return because of a new "trauma" or a new fear. However, it's the same approach to tackle each one.

You have a strength in your nature that I can see in your posts which gives me every confidence in your abilities to overcome situations you face and so it's easy to have every faith in you.

As you say, it's practice and you Are learning, and I think you've done brilliantly!

By the way, depersonalization is a common symptom of anxiety.

What do they say about phoenix's? They rise from the ashes as you are! :winks: I enjoy listening!

[Krakers]

Hi there - again can only relate my personal experinece. That depersonaliation or derealisation really freaked me out. Its only happened the once thankfully, but I do understand how surreal everything becomes.

It happened to me in Tescos (somewhere I'd been avoiding and was making an effort to change by behaviour). They have an upstairs in our one (and if its the same in them all, then let me off for not getting around as much as I should :winks: ).

Anwyways, I was coming back down the escelator, the trolley has its own brakes, and it just seemed like everything started to stretch out in front of me and I felt like I was watching myself even though I was right there.

At the bottom I used self talk (its helped me loads, things like "You've done this before, you'll be fine", "You know that this is just a symptom and you can overcome it", "Anxiety only has as much control as I let it have"), as I was probably 8 out of 10 to a PA.

It worked, I got through it, and if it ever does come back I can tell myself that I've been here before and I coped - I will cope again.

As much as its really strange, it is common as Bill said. I used to have something called (technical term coming up) Globulous Hystericus (sp?). In plain speak it means you feel like theres a lump in your throat permenantly. Had it for over a year. Once someone told me it was a common anxiety symptom it went in 2 weeks. You can't imagine the relief.

Knowledge is power - power to take the control back that anxiety tries to take from us. It seems like you are on the right track.

Keep it up ....... Krakers.

[jill]

Ohhh what a great thread :yesyes: and some great replies :yesyes:

I do what you mean Bill when you say, analyse your mind. My daughter suffered pa, anxiety WELL, before I did, she was only 3 years old at the time.( she is 14 now and doing very well) Now because of the way her panic came, it was dame hard for the gp and specialist to find out what was wrong with her. From my way of thinking back then, remember I NEVER suffered pa's, high anxiety. I am ashemed to say, I new nothing. My daughter was being sick all the time and had, what I called funny turns.

It took them 3 years to come up with panic, anxiety, ohh boy, by this time, she had what we all know as learend behavour :lac: I know full well, that we as a family, let her learn that behavour, only because we NEVER new what was wrong with her, oh boy, if I new then what I know now, I would have handled thing in a different way.

It was 1 year into my daugahter nighmare, (she was 4 years old at this time ) test after test coming up with nothing. I started to link my daughters problems into the things that she was doing, I analysed her, looked at her inside out up side down so to speak.

YES, the first Pa, WAS a truama and she lived that truama over and over again, it started in nursery, BUT then as we all know what panic can do, it went off into other parts of her life, :weep: I still think now, if I only new at the begining, but its not worth me going over that now, whats past is past.

Sooo, what to do at age 4, start to analyse, start to look at her thought patten, find out what the hell is scaring her, it was soo hard for me, I new nothing about panic, but I began.

The more I looked the more I got scared, ohh boy, I ME, her mother, the one who is supposed to protect her has let her learn avoidance, :lac: I had to undo, all that had been learned, ohh boy, it took me a hell of a long time, analyse everthing she did, asking how she was thinking, trying dame hard to put more positive reasuring thoughts into her little tinny mind, it was dame hard, but over lots and lots of time, she began to move forward, alot in some ways, but failed on others.

When I see the word analyse, I see a way forward, like this tearm, my daughter had a lttle hiccup, ohh boy long story, but she had a bee in her bonet about a certain teacther in school, her avoidence jumped in, she was avoiding her feelings, her feeling of anxiety and panic, she has put 2 and 2 together and came up with 5 with this teacher, (ohh he's probly a lovely man) but my daughters fears are sooo strong at the mo, soooo we are analysing it, trying dame hard to see just what her thought pattens are, she knows, that if she can change the way she thinks of this man, her feeling of anxiety will go.

I never new what my daughter went through when she was young, untill, mmm I think it was about 4 years ago, I suffered pa's, high anxiety myself, ohhh boy, Learning about panic, anxiety is the hardest thing I have ever had to do, but again, I analysed, just what is it I'm scared off, mmm, for me, it was panic, fear, anxiety and all the symptoms that came with it. Everytime I had a pa or high anxiety eg, in a shop, I had to analyse, ask myself a question, is it the shop, ohh no, I love shoping, Is it the outside world, Ohh no, I love going out. there were many more things I paniced about, BUT, for me, it was panic itself that scared me, NOT, anything I was doing or saying, so I had to learn, not to fear panic, ohh blinkin hard, not to fear panic.

I don't know much about CBT but have read books on it, does this not cover analyse, look more into things why you panic, eg, in a shop, outside, ask you, what do you fear, help you change your thought pattens on things, what do you all think ?

I wish I could put into one sentance how I stopped my panic, but I can't, analyse is one of many things I learned on this great forum.

My daughter and I are both doing well, I myself have moved on, my daughter anxiety are very few and far between, She moves on every day, I am soo proud of her.

This site is truely a great place to be, there is lots of great info on here and lots of great advice on the site itself and on threads.

In no way is it easy to analyse, in my way of thinking we are trying to re-programme the mind, trying dame hard to switch off the flight, flight response, which has been triggered for, mmm, everyone is different of this one, you have to find your own reasons. If the reasons are not clear, forget trying to find it, consonsrate on learning about panic, anxiety, and coping skills, changing negative scary thoughts to more positive reasuring one's.

Ohh sorry woffling here LOL, don't think I've made any sense at all LOL

TAKE CARE ALL

WISHING YOU ALL WELL

LOVE JILLXX

[Gryphoenix]

Thanks once again Bill--and yeah, phoenix's come back again and again and again, which is what I must do! :D

I was totally a natural worrier (still am!) ever since I was a kid. I can let some things go and not care, and some things just bother me and niggle at my brain to no end. It's funny--I think I'm more worried about stuff that doesn't matter than stuff that does!

I have too much imagination sometimes--it helps with making art but not so great when I can imagine in detail some future event that could go terribly wrong! I often remind myself now that the only thing that I can do anything about is right NOW. Always in motion, the future is, says Yoda from Star Wars. :D I'm like Luke--always looking off to the sunset, my mind never on what I was doing.

I read a wonderful book (still reading) about how your brain actually makes up these future scenarios so detailed and realistically we have reactions to it like they ACTUALLY happened even though they haven't yet. I got to find the name, it's a wonderful book about how the brain works in this way.

Thanks so much again, I'm glad that there is evidence that I am learning. :D It's good to look back on progress, even if it has been slow going--but it seems like from what I've read around here that it is slow going.

Krakers--Aw, I'm glad that you were able to get through it okay! Self-talk has helped me so much but sometimes I'm in such a high state or it hits me so fast I can't remember. XD There's usually one that gets to me in time though. Yeah the depersonalization thing was wacky--I felt weird that night, looking at stuff to ground me, like I wasn't actually there or something, and everything I was watching was fake. I haven't had that kind of thing in ages though, fortunately.

Jill: Wow, that's a great story to tell, and very hopeful. I'm glad you and your daughter are doing well now! I can't imagine what it would have been like to have that at such a young age. I can see how that programming works--it does take a while to unprogram ourselves. I've been anxious for years even before getting PAs, and it's like pulling teeth to get around these feelings.

[Bill]

Jill,
In answer to your questions, I've always believed that different therapies are needed for different people according to how their anxiety affects them. For instance, someone with OCD will need a certain type of behavioural therapist for a more practical approach whereas someone who experiences panic because of too much stress in their lives may need a psychologist to show options.

I've probably said this somewhere before but we only remember our anxiety symptoms and try to avoid those feelings rather than what caused them and so the cycle keeps repeating if there is more to it than just a "bad day".

I think the reason we care is because we're sensitive so have empathy towards others but we're also deep thinkers so need things to stimulate the mind. I also think that we lack confidence because sometimes parents over protect wanting to keep us safe so do things to help but by doing so we don't build confidence in our own abilities. Our sensitivity also makes us vulnerable to what we think others think of us so we feel hurt easily but can't release it which causes anxiety. We're also often worriers like phoenix says!

What I'm trying to say is that panics and anxiety don't happen without a reason which can be complex. Therapists and counsellors etc can help us to understand where it's all stemmed from and so work out an appropriate treatment plan such as CBT. You always need to have a bond with a therapist though because you need to feel you can trust them.

However, just as you say Jill, it's possible to learn to cope for ourselves by analysing ourselves or by simply talking to someone who understands.

Whatever method is used, the main thing is the result that helps us.

I think I've learnt a lot about myself by talking to my mother and gaining knowledge from various sources. I guess I created my own treatment plan as you did for yourself and are for your daughter. I think you've learnt alot! It must be really interesting to observe your daughters behaviour and be able to understand the reasons behind her behaviour. She couldn't have a better mother! :hugs: