View Full Version : Exiting lockdown. How best to do it?
Most of us in the UK are probably at a point of irritation right now as to the lack of information about this coming from our government. Personally, I don’t believe they know what to do and this is why they are refraining from having the discussion right now.
So, what are people’s thoughts on this? Do we ease gradually? Just go for broke and try to quickly achieve herd immunity? Go in and out of lockdown until a vaccine is found and distributed?
Personally, I think herd immunity is a no go. 60% of our population must become infected to achieve this, we don’t have enough evidence to suggest that natural immunity lasts for a significant enough period of time to halt transmission even if 60% do become infected.
I fully believe we have to break the UK into sections right now. Places like London and the midlands that have been hit hard should be zoned in on with a first wave of testing and contact tracing. Get transmission under control in these areas then gradually migrate testing and contact tracing to other cities that are less affected and work your way to remote areas eventually.
This would mean that lockdowns could be lifted one by one, rather than just opening the floodgates back up countrywide and starting over again. Testing should be done by designated teams visiting homes. This lessens the risk of transmission by not having folk entering medical settings.
I don’t know, I just don’t see this discussion from our government right now, so has anyone got any other ideas?
glassgirlw
27-04-20, 00:36
I don’t know too much about the U.K. and how the cities are structured - but my state in the US has developed 3D printed nasal swabs and will be starting more expansive drive thru testing over the next couple weeks. They want to get a better idea of the true percentage of the population that is infected. There are also antibody tests that have started to roll out and they want to see how many may possibly already have antibodies. Like you said though, we have no way of knowing that antibodies give you an extended length of immunity to this.
i personally think we’ll see the social distancing requirements continue until vaccine development. Restaurants may reopen but with more expansive measures to condone distancing requirements. Barber shops and salons will probably require use of masks for customers and employees. I think things will reopen in stages, all the while the expanded testing will continue.
It will be interesting to see what happens.
PanickyGuy
27-04-20, 00:51
I know this is specifically pertaining more to the U.K.'s lockdown issues, but I'll give you a U.S. citizen's perspective because it's about the same over here. Now my daughter is a health care worker, and she made some pretty good points as to why "stay at home" or lockdown is necessary until the infection rates are near the bottom of the curve. I'll repeat what she has told me.
1. Hospitals - If they get overwhelmed all over, doctors have to start making choices as to who gets to be on the ventilators and who does without. So it becomes a life and death choice. It gets worse, those who do get ventilators have a 20 - 25% chance of surviving. If by chance they do survive they may have lung scars and/or neurological issues later on. The virus will leave it's mark on you one way or another when you've gotten to that point.
2. They need this virus to spread slowly, not fast with the herd immunity BS, so they can study the virus and find better ways to combat it, if or when a second or third wave hits. By the time a another wave hits, they could be better prepared to contain the hot spots and have treatments that could help with a better outcome then the first time around.
3. If we go with the herd immunity BS, the virus is going to shut most businesses down anyway, because there will be more deaths, more sickness and a crap load of absenteeism. She pointed out what happened at Tysons recently as an example. Even though they tried to take social distancing and PPE cautions, in order to keep on working, just about all their employees got infected anyway and they had to close the plant down for cleaning. That will happen everywhere with businesses if we go the way of herd immunity. The virus will decide if we don't care what happens and let it.
4. Learn from history or be doomed to repeat it. She pointed out, what you see going on now with this virus, happened nearly the same back in 1918 with the H1N1 flu. The similarities are amazing right now, even down to how people behaved over the 1918 flu. Hospitals got overwhelmed, people didn't pay attention or agree with "stay at home" orders, got out and protested in some places, and in places like Philadelphia they even had parades. They got sick and 48 hours later their death tolls was astonishingly high. While at the same time, places like St. Louis, Missouri practiced "stay at home" orders, flattened the curve and had very low death tolls. So because some people didn't care and carried on to their normal routines, the U.S. suffered over 675,000 flu deaths and the world suffered 50 to 100 million worldwide.
So I don't know about ya'll, but she pretty much convinced me. And it's like Trump said, yeah I know he's an idiot, but he got this right at least -if he didn't start shutting things down, although it wasn't soon enough IMO, we would be looking at millions of deaths right now in the U.S. alone. His medical team were projecting that if people didn't start practicing "stay at home" and social distancing and for once in his life I'm glad he listened to them. I just wish some of these state governors over here would get their heads out of their butts and quit trying to jump ahead of the gun, just to get the economy going again. Big mistake!
WiseMonkey
27-04-20, 01:25
Most of us in the UK are probably at a point of irritation right now as to the lack of information about this coming from our government. Personally, I don’t believe they know what to do and this is why they are refraining from having the discussion right now.
So, what are people’s thoughts on this? Do we ease gradually? Just go for broke and try to quickly achieve herd immunity? Go in and out of lockdown until a vaccine is found and distributed?
Personally, I think herd immunity is a no go. 60% of our population must become infected to achieve this, we don’t have enough evidence to suggest that natural immunity lasts for a significant enough period of time to halt transmission even if 60% do become infected.
I fully believe we have to break the UK into sections right now. Places like London and the midlands that have been hit hard should be zoned in on with a first wave of testing and contact tracing. Get transmission under control in these areas then gradually migrate testing and contact tracing to other cities that are less affected and work your way to remote areas eventually.
This would mean that lockdowns could be lifted one by one, rather than just opening the floodgates back up countrywide and starting over again. Testing should be done by designated teams visiting homes. This lessens the risk of transmission by not having folk entering medical settings.
I don’t know, I just don’t see this discussion from our government right now, so has anyone got any other ideas?
We in NZ are going down to Level 3 tomorrow (Tuesday) as our new cases of Covid19 have been in single figures for a week and all our 16 clusters are contained. Those NZers who have returned from overseas are in enforced quarantine for 14 days. We will still have to do distancing of 2m or 1.5m for businesses reopening. Businesses have to have wash stations installed with hand sanitiser etc and follow safety procedures. They have to keep records of who visited, contact numbers etc in case contact tracing is required. Schools will be open to children of essential workers if required, others will remain at home with online learning. Office workers will remain working from home.
Not all business will be reopening, so not restaurants, cafes, hairdressers, barbers, salons, movie theaters, libraries etc or anywhere where people can congregate. Food outlets can do take-a-ways only.
We can extend our bubble (home living group) by one or two people but those people can only have contact with us, no one else.
These may seem extremely cautious measures but this is what it takes to eradicate the virus from our country. We don't want to go backwards. The govt health organisations are carrying out extensive testing in numerous areas around NZ and so far these tests have come up negative, showing that there is no community spread. This testing is ongoing. Today monday, NZ has just 5 new cases. All cases are related to a known source so all is contained (for now). :)
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12327755
I honestly can't see Britain coming out of isolation until the virus cases are under control so this could takes any months because of the sheer population numbers and the rampant spread of the virus.
Panicattacka
27-04-20, 02:29
This is the new normal, get used to it. You will never have the freedoms and ease of movement you had before.
This is the new normal, get used to it. You will never have the freedoms and ease of movement you had before.
That's a bit extreme isn't it?
We've survived and overcome many diseases, in time we will overcome this one too.
MyNameIsTerry
27-04-20, 05:51
I agree on the zones approach. Some areas are bad and they need a tailored approach compared to those with fewer cases. The tube is a prime example of something you just can't handle in a situation like this but it's a unique situation requiring a unique solution.
But even opening up areas will still see them impacted by neighbouring worse hit ones remaining locked down. A lot of people travel between areas in the West Midlands that vary in how they have been impacted. I wouldn't fancy a previous role where I was travelling into those places several times a week until they have been significantly reduced.
Social distancing may as well continue for some time. For many it's not that bad, as in something like shopping where it can be controlled to some extent, or can at least be reduced in various areas of their lives if not all.
MyNameIsTerry
27-04-20, 05:55
That's a bit extreme isn't it?
We've survived and overcome many diseases, in time we will overcome this one too.
Yeah, wars spring to mind. A few generations back saw people's lives change a lot more drastically than this and for a lot longer (permanent for many).
Things look pretty rosy right now compared to my grandparents & parents (the latter being young children back then) days.
I'm still a lot luckier than a lot of people in this world even if this went on for many years.
Yes Terry we are lucky,lucky we aren’t homeless and starving in countries of the D’s shithouse Africa.
My mate is still stuck in the Congo with a shortage of ventilators,masks and gloves she sent me pictures last night and they are not pretty.:weep:
ankietyjoe
27-04-20, 11:47
That's a bit extreme isn't it?
We've survived and overcome many diseases, in time we will overcome this one too.
I think the answer to this is yes and no.
The world was a very different place during previous pandemics, where global commuting was unheard of. I would say that 99% of people rarely set foot out of the area they were born in, and the 'new normal' being referred to may have to happen for the foreseeable. It's the contemporary mass movement of people between communities that may be a big stumbling block to recovery.
One of the main problems I'm seeing where I live (and I presume this to be an issue nationwide) is that measures are only effective if people follow them, and people are NOT following them here for the most part, or at least a significant minority aren't. This alone could have measures remain in place for many more months.
I can't see normal returning within 12 months, that's for sure. Depending on how you perceive 'normal'.
ankietyjoe
27-04-20, 12:09
In some respects, we may need some form of global socialism for a generation. You may scoff, but it is a legitimate solution and not really a bad thing.
This worldwide lockdown has nothing to do with stopping the "virus". It's a psychological operation being carried out on a global scale to control human behaviour, reduce world population, enforce mandatory vaccination among other things. So far, it's been a complete success for the Oligarchs with the likes of Jeff Bezos making a killing. That hasn't stopped him from begging for donations though. Around a billion people will die of starvation in places like India and Africa while corrupt rulers line up their pockets. Melinda Gates says "there will be dead bodies on the streets of Africa" so they're about to commit another genocide against the African people.
ankietyjoe
27-04-20, 12:40
This worldwide lockdown has nothing to do with stopping the "virus". It's a psychological operation being carried out on a global scale to control human behaviour, reduce world population, enforce mandatory vaccination among other things. So far, it's been a complete success for the Oligarchs with the likes of Jeff Bezos making a killing. That hasn't stopped him from begging for donations though. Around a billion people will die of starvation in places like India and Africa while corrupt rulers line up their pockets. Melinda Gates says "there will be dead bodies on the streets of Africa" so they're about to commit another genocide against the African people.
Just because some people are taking advantage of the situation, doesn't mean it's the driving conspiracy behind the situation.
Can we just accept the virus is real, dangerous and serious and stop peddling nonsensical stories about the lizard elite.
This worldwide lockdown has nothing to do with stopping the "virus". It's a psychological operation being carried out on a global scale to control human behaviour, reduce world population, enforce mandatory vaccination among other things. So far, it's been a complete success for the Oligarchs with the likes of Jeff Bezos making a killing. That hasn't stopped him from begging for donations though. Around a billion people will die of starvation in places like India and Africa while corrupt rulers line up their pockets. Melinda Gates says "there will be dead bodies on the streets of Africa" so they're about to commit another genocide against the African people.
Please provide your evidence that the lockdown is a “psychological operation being carried out on a global scale to control human behaviour, reduce world population and enforce mandatory vaccination” please.
I’m going to bet you either can’t or you’ll post a meme with a headline written in bold above it.
Pamplemousse
27-04-20, 13:02
Please provide your evidence that the lockdown is a “psychological operation being carried out on a global scale to control human behaviour, reduce world population and enforce mandatory vaccination” please.
Hang on... I thought that was what the virtually non-existent 5G was for? Although some have been saying 3G and 4G are just as dangerous.
Hang on... I thought that was what the virtually non-existent 5G was for? Although some have been saying 3G and 4G are just as dangerous.
It’s all part of the one big conspiracy I guess. I guess when you’re intellectually lazy it’s just easier to call everything a conspiracy and throw it into one big mixing bowl.
Pamplemousse
27-04-20, 13:12
I've always struggled with conspiracy theories. It's almost as if their believers find the truth just too mundane and so have to invent a fantastic 'theory' that makes them look like some all-knowing savant.
I've always struggled with conspiracy theories. It's almost as if their believers find the truth just too mundane and so have to invent a fantastic 'theory' that makes them look like some all-knowing savant.
Hollow has the floor to back up what he has said here. If it’s as obvious as he’s making out we should be getting an influx of accurate peer reviewed information from very credible sources any moment now.
If it’s as obvious as he’s making out we should be getting an influx of accurate peer reviewed information from very credible sources any moment now.
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swooooooshhhhhh rusttle swooosh (thats the sound of tumble weed blowing across the prairie, hard to recreate in a written form)
I think I hear crickets chirping.
So again we see a shouty post making all sorts of weird and wonderful claims but not one shred of evidence to back it any of it.
I personally think that the coronavirus is actually an STI started by pornhub and the “elite” are saying it’s a virus so they can continue to download anime and fake taxi videos. I can’t prove it but if you stop listening to mainstream media and do your own research without being gullible sheeple then you’ll see for yourself.
#WOKE AF
ankietyjoe
27-04-20, 14:09
I find it odd that quarantine and distancing have been the primary resource for fighting infectious diseases for centuries, but it's only now that 'the man' has created quarantine to control us all.
You'd think somebody would have thought of it sooner.
...and why do we actually need controlling anyway ? We were hardly all out there rampaging over the landscape wielding swords. Like, the economy of 'the man' is somewhat needy of us all being at work and getting on with buying things.
...and why do we actually need controlling anyway ? We were hardly all out there rampaging over the landscape wielding swords. Like, the economy of 'the man' is somewhat needy of us all being at work and getting on with buying things.
People who indulge in this type of guff like to think there’s this big guiding hand controlling us like we’re characters in a game or something. It’s stupid.
Anyone with money and power is the enemy, anyone who is a qualified expert is generally in bed with these money hungry control freaks. For me, it just looks like the manifestation of one huge inferiority complex.
You see first hand how empty these opinions are, they’re quite literally plucked out of thin air.
Pamplemousse
27-04-20, 15:11
You see first hand how empty these opinions are, they’re quite literally plucked out of thin air.
A rather more charitable place than where I'd say they were plucked from.
What's the point of posting "evidence" when you're just going to dismiss it as conspiracy nonsense because it doesn't come from MSM. That's your get out of jail free card everytime along with the usual ad hominem attacks.
It's not a conspiracy theory to suggest that coronavirus death figures are being over-estimated and official statistics are entirely unreliable. There is no distinction being made between those who die "of" the coronavirus and those who die "with" the coronavirus. This means any death can be labelled as Covid19 regardless of the cause. The range of symptoms associated with coronavirus is so large that it's impossible to make a accurate diagnosis which is why the false-positive rate is so high.
Therefore, we're being deceived into accepting these draconian lock-down measures based on fraudulent data and scare-mongering from the controlled media.
Surveillance a price worth paying to beat coronavirus, says Blair thinktank
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/surveillance-a-price-worth-paying-to-beat-coronavirus-says-blair-thinktank
“Carefully applied, technology gives policymakers a possible way through the crisis that reduces otherwise very high costs in terms of lives lost and livelihoods destroyed,” said Chris Yiu, the institute’s executive director of technology and public policy. “But this escape route comes with a price: dramatically increased technological surveillance. Under the right conditions, this is a price worth paying.
Pamplemousse
27-04-20, 19:05
What's the point of posting "evidence" when you're just going to dismiss it as conspiracy nonsense because it doesn't come from MSM. That's your get out of jail free card everytime along with the usual ad hominem attacks.
Says he, using his very own 'get out of jail free' card.
Hollow, you stated that these lockdowns were psychological ideas intended to control population and enforce vaccination. You then post about over estimated death figures as somehow being proof of that.
I agree that the figures are being over-estimated and yes, there needs to be more number crunching done in order to arrive at more accurate figures. Can you please explain to me how that in any way proves that this is some psychological operation being carried out by “them” for population control and enforced vaccination? It doesn’t, of course, all it shows is that in the short time since this virus began transmitting there isn’t a perfect model in place to track it.
You are putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 1000. You’re simply using the God of the gaps argument, whereby you find a very small hole in a certain event and fill it with all manner of nonsense with not a shred of evidence to back your assertion. Again, it’s a typically dull and transparent tactic by someone who is scraping desperately to jump to a conclusion they’ve already reached.
I couldn’t care less that your “evidence” isn’t, as you say, “from the MSM”,that’s called argument from authority and it’s not something I’d engage in. You know and I know that this isn’t a “get out of jail card”, it’s simply that you don’t have any evidence because all your doing is filling gaps with stuff that you’re plucking out of thin air.
You can’t just keep making these bald assertions with all of these fantastical stories without showing evidence. Gaps in the narrative that get filled with unsubstantiated nonsense is not proof of your assertion, all it proves is that you don’t have the slightest clue how to substantiate a claim.
You have done it in this very post above. “The numbers are inaccurate therefore we’re being deceived”. How is that more likely than it just being an inaccurate model caused by a lack of true data? How does that make the media “compliant”? In fact, the way these numbers are reported now literally says “people that have died after being diagnosed with coronavirus.” If you actually bothered to read real scientists and epidemiologists, you’d see that they are very publicly pointing this problem out. How is that some kind of cover up?
I've been reading and TBH, its those believing in the conspiracy theories and those that I see here in the US supporting a president that's having Twitter meltdowns about how unfair he's treated by the media among other things, while nearly 1,000,000 people are infected and over 55K have died! That stresses me out!
I'm in that risk group. Over 60, several pre-existing conditions. I've survived two heart attacks, a triple bypass, stents and Stage IVa Head and Neck cancer and some freakin' virus can take me out? While I'm seeing earnest efforts at social distancing, its those that feel this is a hoax or some deep state nonsense that are risking lives by ignoring the medical professionals. So yeah.... If thinking that its a deep state conspiracy helps you cope, then so be it. The reality is much different.
Positive thoughts
I've been reading and TBH, its those believing in the conspiracy theories and those that I see here in the US supporting a president that's having Twitter meltdowns about how unfair he's treated by the media among other things, while nearly 1,000,000 people are infected and over 55K have died! That stresses me out!
I'm in that risk group. Over 60, several pre-existing conditions. I've survived two heart attacks, a triple bypass, stents and Stage IVa Head and Neck cancer and some freakin' virus can take me out? While I'm seeing earnest efforts at social distancing, its those that feel this is a hoax or some deep state nonsense that are risking lives by ignoring the medical professionals. So yeah.... If thinking that its a deep state conspiracy helps you cope, then so be it. The reality is much different.
Positive thoughts
This is the point of all this. By and large these silly conspiracies are nothing but harmless nonsense. A bunch of uneducated folk back slapping about how they know better than everyone else is generally a source of amusement to the vast majority of people.
This, though, is something totally different and actually pretty sinister. Some of the footage I’m seeing from the US is quite literally mind boggling. Your president is....Jesus, I don’t even know what to say anymore. Lost it doesn’t quite describe it, does it?
Just be sure to keep as safe as you can, I guess. There are slightly agitated folk in the UK but for the most part people are doing as advised and it seems to be finally getting results. There certainly isn’t gangs of flag waving people running around with “Jesus is my vaccine” T-shirts on, that’s for sure.
Lost it doesn’t quite describe it, does it?
Something major is missing for sure, lots of major things are missing actually - its bizzare to observe LOL
There certainly isn’t gangs of flag waving people running around with “Jesus is my vaccine” T-shirts on, that’s for sure.
Nope....thats for sure. Seriously - 'Jesus is my vaccine?' - is that for real ??
I think this is a really valid point regarding conspiracy theories and one that needs to be aired. As you said in that main they are just silly and pointless, this set is dangerous and therefore they must be challenged.
MyNameIsTerry
27-04-20, 21:31
Agreed, it has to be challenged. Those thinking this is a big hoax to enforce xyz might be ignoring social distancing and through their own arrogance putting real people at risk. Those doing that might even be on the same scale as those purposely licking food in supermarkets or coughing on old people, just not quite at the extreme end.
Even if it were a hoax would social distancing be so bad that you can't just go along with it just in case?
Seriously - 'Jesus is my vaccine?' - is that for real ??
I saw it in footage of one of the protests. There was another guy saying that other people’s safety is not his responsibility.
I can understand the annoyance surrounding lockdowns, nobody likes it, but the stuff happening in the US right now is just real head in hands stuff.
MyNameIsTerry
27-04-20, 21:35
This worldwide lockdown has nothing to do with stopping the "virus". It's a psychological operation being carried out on a global scale to control human behaviour, reduce world population, enforce mandatory vaccination among other things. So far, it's been a complete success for the Oligarchs with the likes of Jeff Bezos making a killing. That hasn't stopped him from begging for donations though. Around a billion people will die of starvation in places like India and Africa while corrupt rulers line up their pockets. Melinda Gates says "there will be dead bodies on the streets of Africa" so they're about to commit another genocide against the African people.
Pretty crap way of reducing the population considering more are dying every year from how many other things? How do you think the UK's current 21k deaths compares?
MyNameIsTerry
27-04-20, 21:42
I saw it in footage of one of the protests. There was another guy saying that other people’s safety is not his responsibility.
I can understand the annoyance surrounding lockdowns, nobody likes it, but the stuff happening in the US right now is just real head in hands stuff.
Similar stuff going on elsewhere too such as the mass praying at that tree that looked like Christ on the cross in South America (can't remember where it was offhand). Years ago That's Life might have shown us that long with Elvis in my toast :biggrin:
The protests in Germany being another. Some of them weren't social distancing.
travelgirl77
27-04-20, 22:26
So, I guess this is it. The governor of the state in which I currently reside is allowing the stay home order to expire on Thursday and restaurants, retail, museums, libraries, etc. may re-open at 25% capacity. Our state is one of the largest with second largest economy and currently in an oil freefall, and I completely sympathize with the pain that this shutdown has caused for many people in my state. My family, however, will be continuing to stay at home. We are also one of the states lacking in testing. I mean schools are closed for the year, I am quite enjoying having groceries loaded into my car, I already work from home, and enjoy online shopping much more than in person. I guess we will be the guinea pigs in our state. I am hoping for the best, but expecting the worst.
Pamplemousse
27-04-20, 23:43
So, I guess this is it. The governor of the state in which I currently reside is allowing the stay home order to expire on Thursday and restaurants, retail, museums, libraries, etc. may re-open at 25% capacity. Our state is one of the largest with second largest economy and currently in an oil freefall, and I completely sympathize with the pain that this shutdown has caused for many people in my state. My family, however, will be continuing to stay at home. We are also one of the states lacking in testing. I mean schools are closed for the year, I am quite enjoying having groceries loaded into my car, I already work from home, and enjoy online shopping much more than in person. I guess we will be the guinea pigs in our state. I am hoping for the best, but expecting the worst.
I'd say that is a very sensible and pragmatic approach by yourself - as long as the ability to have your groceries loaded into your car remains. I'm doing that for the very first time tomorrow here in the UK. I must remember that I have to take the ignition key out of the lock in the steering though because the remote boot (trunk) opening is disabled otherwise!
MyNameIsTerry
28-04-20, 04:42
This worldwide lockdown has nothing to do with stopping the "virus". It's a psychological operation being carried out on a global scale to control human behaviour, reduce world population, enforce mandatory vaccination among other things. So far, it's been a complete success for the Oligarchs with the likes of Jeff Bezos making a killing. That hasn't stopped him from begging for donations though. Around a billion people will die of starvation in places like India and Africa while corrupt rulers line up their pockets. Melinda Gates says "there will be dead bodies on the streets of Africa" so they're about to commit another genocide against the African people.
They might bring in mass vaccination with an opt out. Then we can vaccinate as many as possible leaving those suspicious of the reasoning behind all these to become a new anti vaxxer crowd. That way at least the rest of us might be protected.
But we already have mass vaccination in various ways. Why not just use that? Why engineer this?
What would mass vaccination mean anyway? Are you believing it will include a tracer for sattelites to pick us up from?
Ohhh the irony.....
Leader of NC movement to re-open gets COVID-19 (https://www.newser.com/story/290160/leader-of-movement-to-reopen-nc-gets-the-virus.html?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_top_webmail)
Happens when you have shite for brains!
FMP
WiseMonkey
28-04-20, 12:47
Ohhh the irony.....
Leader of NC movement to re-open gets COVID-19 (https://www.newser.com/story/290160/leader-of-movement-to-reopen-nc-gets-the-virus.html?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_top_webmail)
Happens when you have shite for brains! FMP
Thank gawd she forced herself (or was forced) to quarantine for 2 weeks ... pillock :lac:
This is the point of all this. By and large these silly conspiracies are nothing but harmless nonsense. A bunch of uneducated folk back slapping about how they know better than everyone else is generally a source of amusement to the vast majority of people.
This, though, is something totally different and actually pretty sinister. Some of the footage I’m seeing from the US is quite literally mind boggling. Your president is....Jesus, I don’t even know what to say anymore. Lost it doesn’t quite describe it, does it?
Just be sure to keep as safe as you can, I guess. There are slightly agitated folk in the UK but for the most part people are doing as advised and it seems to be finally getting results. There certainly isn’t gangs of flag waving people running around with “Jesus is my vaccine” T-shirts on, that’s for sure.
A bit like here in the UK back in 2008 when I remember certain people believing and saying that the Credit Crunch was 'engineered' by Gordon Brown and Co, as some kind of hidden agenda in order to screw certain factions of our society and to appease the so-called 'scroungers' and immigrants, etc, despite it actually being a worldwide phenomenon. And this wasn't just right-wingers, it was the serial 'know-it-alls' from across the entire political and social spectra. Even quite a few of the more left-leaning folk in this country by then were constantly harking back to those 'less troubled times' of the 80s and early 90s, which they previously admitted were often unbearable at the time!!
I imagine there was probably a lot of virtue-signalling going on at the time as well.
Pamplemousse
28-04-20, 18:00
A bit like here in the UK back in 2008 when I remember certain people believing and saying that the Credit Crunch was 'engineered' by Gordon Brown and Co, as some kind of hidden agenda in order to screw certain factions of our society and to appease the so-called 'scroungers' and immigrants, etc, despite it actually being a worldwide phenomenon. And this wasn't just right-wingers, it was the serial 'know-it-alls' from across the entire political and social spectra. Even quite a few of the more left-leaning folk in this country by then were constantly harking back to those 'less troubled times' of the 80s and early 90s, which they previously admitted were often unbearable at the time!!
I imagine there was probably a lot of virtue-signalling going on at the time as well.
Even now people still say the recession was Brown's fault, even though his actions were praised for reducing the impact in the UK. A little like how it is conveniently forgotten that Denis Healey's 'austerity' measures were successful enough to earn praise from the IMF for the speed of repayments and that not only was the second part of the IMF loan he applied for not required, subsequent examination of the figures provided by the Treasury at the time were so wide of the actual mark that he needn't have applied for the IMF loan at all - something which actually was common practice in the 1950s and 60s.
And just for balance; whilst people hammer the current administration for their behaviour towards the disabled, 'New' Labour was just as fond of attacking the disabled as 'scroungers'. That's where my hatred for Blair started, not that I ever liked the slippery bar steward!
Sorry, rant over :flowers:
MyNameIsTerry
28-04-20, 18:57
Even now people still say the recession was Brown's fault, even though his actions were praised for reducing the impact in the UK. A little like how it is conveniently forgotten that Denis Healey's 'austerity' measures were successful enough to earn praise from the IMF for the speed of repayments and that not only was the second part of the IMF loan he applied for not required, subsequent examination of the figures provided by the Treasury at the time were so wide of the actual mark that he needn't have applied for the IMF loan at all - something which actually was common practice in the 1950s and 60s.
And just for balance; whilst people hammer the current administration for their behaviour towards the disabled, 'New' Labour was just as fond of attacking the disabled as 'scroungers'. That's where my hatred for Blair started, not that I ever liked the slippery bar steward!
Sorry, rant over :flowers:
Was this the same time that labelled the sick & elderly as 'bedblockers', an inconvenience to hospitals. Well perhaps if successive governments hadn't been closing down wards on cottage hospitals...
MyNameIsTerry
28-04-20, 19:00
A bit like here in the UK back in 2008 when I remember certain people believing and saying that the Credit Crunch was 'engineered' by Gordon Brown and Co, as some kind of hidden agenda in order to screw certain factions of our society and to appease the so-called 'scroungers' and immigrants, etc, despite it actually being a worldwide phenomenon. And this wasn't just right-wingers, it was the serial 'know-it-alls' from across the entire political and social spectra. Even quite a few of the more left-leaning folk in this country by then were constantly harking back to those 'less troubled times' of the 80s and early 90s, which they previously admitted were often unbearable at the time!!
I imagine there was probably a lot of virtue-signalling going on at the time as well.
The more left leaning would have been viewing this as blue Labour.
And then there would be the CTers...
Even now people still say the recession was Brown's fault, even though his actions were praised for reducing the impact in the UK. A little like how it is conveniently forgotten that Denis Healey's 'austerity' measures were successful enough to earn praise from the IMF for the speed of repayments and that not only was the second part of the IMF loan he applied for not required, subsequent examination of the figures provided by the Treasury at the time were so wide of the actual mark that he needn't have applied for the IMF loan at all - something which actually was common practice in the 1950s and 60s.
And just for balance; whilst people hammer the current administration for their behaviour towards the disabled, 'New' Labour was just as fond of attacking the disabled as 'scroungers'. That's where my hatred for Blair started, not that I ever liked the slippery bar steward!
Sorry, rant over :flowers:
I saw snippets of GB on TV a couple of weeks ago, airing his own views concerning the CV pandemic (IIRC) and in spite of him being much derided during his relatively short-lived tenure as PM, I couldn't help feeling a little sorry for him, as I personally don't think he was treated particularly kindly by both the media and the general public at large at the time, and he and New Labour would probably be just as much under fire over his/their perceived handling of the CV crisis as BoJo and Co are ATM, had they still been in power ten years on.
Whilst I wholeheartedly agree that New Labour had their faults and most certainly could and should have done better with many things, I don't think the disabled have ever been treated particularly kindly by any govt of any party at any time throughout history, and have always been treated with contempt by certain factions of the general public.
At least that's my view.
The more left leaning would have been viewing this as blue Labour.
And then there would be the CTers...
Correct.
PanickyGuy
28-04-20, 20:28
Ohhh the irony.....
Leader of NC movement to re-open gets COVID-19 (https://www.newser.com/story/290160/leader-of-movement-to-reopen-nc-gets-the-virus.html?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_top_webmail)
Happens when you have shite for brains!
FMP
Yeah when she found out she got it, she was like........
https://media.tenor.com/images/495c889c746a9a7cd6e09daa58c56ba7/tenor.gif
Daahuuuuuuuuh?
MyNameIsTerry
28-04-20, 20:35
Yeah when she found out she got it, she was like........
https://media.tenor.com/images/495c889c746a9a7cd6e09daa58c56ba7/tenor.gif
Daahuuuuuuuuh?
Just think later on we will have a whole new anti vaxxer bunch complaining about their freedom to practice ignorance :doh:
Yeah when she found out she got it, she was like........
https://media.tenor.com/images/495c889c746a9a7cd6e09daa58c56ba7/tenor.gif
Daahuuuuuuuuh?
I'm in essential services and deal with the public. I think I've made my tongue bleed from biting it listening to people that literally parrot the president and Fox news!
Alternate truth I guess :wacko:....
FMP
Pamplemousse
28-04-20, 22:07
Was this the same time that labelled the sick & elderly as 'bedblockers', an inconvenience to hospitals. Well perhaps if successive governments hadn't been closing down wards on cottage hospitals...
I do believe it was...
PanickyGuy
29-04-20, 00:04
Just think later on we will have a whole new anti vaxxer bunch complaining about their freedom to practice ignorance :doh:
I'd say that's enough qualification for the Darwin Awards. :D
https://darwinawards.com/
I'm in essential services and deal with the public. I think I've made my tongue bleed from biting it listening to people that literally parrot the president and Fox news!
Alternate truth I guess :wacko:....
FMP
I know man. Sometimes I think the Trump cult stupidity is more infectious then the coronavirus.
I'd say that's enough qualification for the Darwin Awards. :D
https://darwinawards.com/
I could never comment on those who like small pricks ;)
WiredIncorrectly
29-04-20, 13:43
This lockdown isn't going to end in the near future. I'll put my money on that. The economy is being crushed right now and every country is looking for "a way around" COVID-19 so business can resume to some extent. But, the numbers of infections and deaths per day isn't allowing that to happen. Germany has had to rethink it's plan after the numbers increased.
The world will never be the same again unless COVID is eradicated. I've always said humans will end up killing the planet with technology that's gone too far. This is it - A human engineered virus that escaped the lab.
I think that's the brutal reality of it.
Pamplemousse
29-04-20, 13:52
Perhaps a slight cause for optimism here.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-vaccine-oxford-university-scientists-september/
WiredIncorrectly
29-04-20, 14:35
Perhaps a slight cause for optimism here.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-vaccine-oxford-university-scientists-september/
Important to note the point at the end of the article though:
Wasting no time, the largest drugmaker in the world, based in India, will start producing millions of the Oxford vaccines by next month, even before they've been proven to work.
Currently there's no proof it will work. But, I am keeping some level of optimism because this lock down is getting stupid.
But what is to be gained by rushing out a vaccine that's effectiveness is unproven? I can't see us exiting this lockdown without either an effective vaccine or herd immunity, and the second option would cost how many lives?
But what is to be gained by rushing out a vaccine that's effectiveness is unproven? I can't see us exiting this lockdown without either an effective vaccine or herd immunity, and the second option would cost how many lives?
They are mass producing the vaccine “at risk” which basically means they’re producing it with a degree of confidence that it’ll work but acknowledge there’s a risk that it won’t. The idea is that if it is proven to work they’ll have a significant amount produced so as to not fall too heavily behind demand.
ankietyjoe
29-04-20, 18:01
In some respects a rushed vaccine is equivalent to a war of attrition. The hope will be that it saves more people than it kills. They will already know that it works, but lengthy trials are put in place to quantify percentages of severe side effects or reactions. The lengthy trial period may be a luxury that's removed in this situation.
WiseMonkey
30-04-20, 11:07
Found this online, a US article about Australia and New Zealand leading the way ...https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/world/australia/new-zealand-coronavirus.html?auth=login-facebook&fbclid=IwAR3cguEfSyis4HIrMN3g2wHt4udb3K3G1fu4PRZTg znNs89ypupcIam4N8A&smid=fb-share
Tip of the iceberg in terms of the damage done...
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-non-covid-patient-care-on-hold-as-doctors-fear-wave-of-referrals-after-lockdown-11982768
travelgirl77
04-05-20, 17:50
I do not even think that is the tip....we cannot even begin to recognize what that will look like for months. Between people not being able to get necessary or even preventative treatments to people unable to work to the full implosion of the airline industry, among others, to the negative mental impact this has had on countless people. It is overwhelming to think about.
MyNameIsTerry
04-05-20, 20:33
Imagine all the non urgent stuff that the doctors struggle to do. Now send them all away for a few months. Now imagine the backlog.
There is also criticism of government strategy to prioritise the pandemic. Some hospitals haven't been hit by it as others have. But imagine if they had? Imagine those who wouldn't have cleared the decks being swamped and people dying?
Can't beat hindsight. But rightly the strategy needs the scrutiny of a public enquiry in my opinion. But let's face it, imagine Corbyn's government dealing with this if they had got in...
Tip of the iceberg in terms of the damage done...
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-non-covid-patient-care-on-hold-as-doctors-fear-wave-of-referrals-after-lockdown-11982768
There's a culling going on of the disabled, elderly and those with serious serious health conditions. We're basically seeing eugenics in action.
Coronavirus: Sick kids' parents asked to sign Do Not Resuscitate orders if they get bug
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/vulnerable-kids-parents-covid-coronavirus-21852510
EXCLUSIVE: Shocked parents are asking if their kids' lives are thought not worth saving as most vulnerable are asked to sign don't resuscitate forms amid coronavirus crisis
https://darrellhines.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/65ad45c8-b06e-40e1-aa54-39e78fff129d.jpeg?w=525&h=394
MyNameIsTerry
04-05-20, 20:54
There needs to be an investigation into who authorised this DNR trawl. I thought the Health Secretary has already answered this in questions in the House after disabled charities questioned it? I thought it had been stopped?
But regardless who came up with this? Why on earth would beating this virus not be seen as worth it whether you are 7 or 70? Why just let people go? What is worse because of this virus than a cancer you are being treated for? It's nonsense.
It smells like a way to save money and reduce bed shortages by the NHS but it's a horrendous policy if so. Or is it incompetence of a number of GP's who have been told one thing but have chosen to go batshit crazy finding anyone they can to add to a list? I hope it's the latter, bad surgeries of which it won't be the first time we've seen such reports.
Plague of Corruption
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pp8vudvf9Ck
Very interesting interview with one of the Swedish scientists on the whole lockdown policy .... and reasons why it isn't always the best way to go. This guy also slams Neil ferguson's Imperial model and they way it was miscalculated. This chap talks rational common sense.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfN2JWifLCY
And another interview with a Nobel Prize winner Professor Levitt along the same lines.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl-sZdfLcEk
No-one listened to him either.....
There's a culling going on of the disabled, elderly and those with serious serious health conditions. We're basically seeing eugenics in action.
Coronavirus: Sick kids' parents asked to sign Do Not Resuscitate orders if they get bug
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/vulnerable-kids-parents-covid-coronavirus-21852510
EXCLUSIVE: Shocked parents are asking if their kids' lives are thought not worth saving as most vulnerable are asked to sign don't resuscitate forms amid coronavirus crisis
https://darrellhines.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/65ad45c8-b06e-40e1-aa54-39e78fff129d.jpeg?w=525&h=394
WTF....crikey Hollow what next.:mad:
Pamplemousse
05-05-20, 11:39
The point being spectacularly missed here is that by improving life expectancy by vaccination, people won't need to have such large families for replacement purposes.
But the CT'ers won't see that as their agenda is narrow, twisted and we're the sheeple.
Pamplemousse
05-05-20, 11:48
This is worth a somewhat morbid look: deaths during a period related to Covid-19 and other causes. I have seen a breakdown that goes to council/village level - it is interesting to note that the area I live in has had no Covid-19 deaths in a period from 1/3/20 to 17/4/20.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsinvolvingcovid19bylocalareasanddeprivation/deathsoccurringbetween1marchand17april
Doesn't stop my anxiety from saying "you could be the first, then."
It must be very frightening living over there and the USA I am thankful that I live in Aus.Our restrictions have been lifted where we can now go for a 50k drive and go for a walk in the parks but still social distance,this is in Queensland the borders are still closed so are interstate borders no restaurants pubs gyms and some beauty salons are open.
Our Gov,got onto this early (except some cruise ships that docked and people walked off without being tested)grrrrr.
We will all come out of this hopefully with showing more kindness and looking out for one and other and asking Are You Ok
My anxiety,when we first heard about the virus went through the roof but now “IT”has settled and I don’t let it get into my head.
That's pretty much the same here Lola. Anyone can drive as much as they want. And I've never seen more people walking in my life. In fact I've been out the last 3 days going for a good long brisk walk. Seeing plenty of face masks and social distancing going on but people are still out and about.
There's a culling going on of the disabled, elderly and those with serious serious health conditions. We're basically seeing eugenics in action.
Coronavirus: Sick kids' parents asked to sign Do Not Resuscitate orders if they get bug
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/vulnerable-kids-parents-covid-coronavirus-21852510
EXCLUSIVE: Shocked parents are asking if their kids' lives are thought not worth saving as most vulnerable are asked to sign don't resuscitate forms amid coronavirus crisis
https://darrellhines.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/65ad45c8-b06e-40e1-aa54-39e78fff129d.jpeg?w=525&h=394
So which is it, Hollow? I thought coronavirus didn’t exist? Or that 5G was causing it? Or was it not being pushed on the world by the “usual suspects”? Or is it the NHS having a “license to murder”?
So now, with this post, I’m assuming you’ve accepted it does exist but it’s now some sinister ploy to reduce population by Bill Gates?
How is anyone supposed to take you seriously when you can’t even stick to one version of nonsense? It’s just a scattergun approach with you now. It’s embarrassing.
So which is it, Hollow? I thought coronavirus didn’t exist? Or that 5G was causing it? Or was it not being pushed on the world by the “usual suspects”? Or is it the NHS having a “license to murder”?
So now, with this post, I’m assuming you’ve accepted it does exist but it’s now some sinister ploy to reduce population by Bill Gates?
How is anyone supposed to take you seriously when you can’t even stick to one version of nonsense? It’s just a scattergun approach with you now. It’s embarrassing.
Where have I said that Covid-19 exists or that it has been caused by 5G? Those people who are claiming 5G is linked with Coronavirus are spreading disinformation. Although, it's odd that 5G is being rolled out under current circumstances.
My position from the beginning has been that this is a Psychological operation which is being used to push multiple agendas including de-population. We're already seeing the most vulnerable people in this country die as a direct result of the lockdown and other policies related to this hoax. But, millions more will die in third-world countries as they don't have any form of social safety net to fall back on. As far as Bill Gates, that's a direct quote from him.
Pamplemousse
05-05-20, 16:30
It must be very frightening living over there and the USA I am thankful that I live in Aus.Our restrictions have been lifted where we can now go for a 50k drive and go for a walk in the parks but still social distance,this is in Queensland the borders are still closed so are interstate borders no restaurants pubs gyms and some beauty salons are open.
Our Gov,got onto this early (except some cruise ships that docked and people walked off without being tested)grrrrr.
We will all come out of this hopefully with showing more kindness and looking out for one and other and asking Are You Ok
My anxiety,when we first heard about the virus went through the roof but now “IT”has settled and I don’t let it get into my head.
I thought you might like to see this video clip on Twitter to demonstrate what kind of people are in our Government.
The woman is Dr. Rosena Allin-Khan, the Shadow Minister for Mental Health and additionally, a junior doctor in A&E/ED/ER in St. George's Hospital, Tooting, South London. She has lived in Tooting all her life.
The man is Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary. He studied for a BA in Philosophy, Politics and Economics (PPE) at Exeter College, Oxford, and an MPhil in Economics at Christ's College, Cambridge, as a postgraduate student.
https://twitter.com/DrRosena/status/1257644583158251522
Where have I said that Covid-19 exists or that it has been caused by 5G? Those people who are claiming 5G is linked with Coronavirus are spreading disinformation. Although, it's odd that 5G is being rolled out under current circumstances.
My position from the beginning has been that this is a Psychological operation which is being used to push multiple agendas including de-population. We're already seeing the most vulnerable people in this country die as a direct result of the lockdown and other policies related to this hoax. But, millions more will die in third-world countries as they don't have any form of social safety net to fall back on. As far as Bill Gates, that's a direct quote from him.
The most vulnerable people are dying because of a virus that preys on old and infirm people, for goodness sake! The one questionable policy, as far as I’m concerned, is one that puts off treatments of major illnesses like cancer and heart disease.
However, hospitals have been bracing for an absolute deluge of Covid-19 patients and, in that event, it’s probably not the best place for either cancer or cardiac patients to be. Why shield the most vulnerable only to compromise them by bringing them smack bang into the middle of a place stacked with contagious people? That’s a difficult choice to make, wouldn’t you say?
I’m trying as hard as I can to actually see what your position is but it’s so confused that I still can’t grasp it. You still haven’t told me, or anyone for that matter, how you could even hoax a virus. Seriously, how can that be done? There are literally hundreds of thousands of scientists and doctors worldwide studying this virus and it’s effects. Are they all in on the hoax? Have they all been briefed? Threatened? What?
That is a huge gaping hole in your argument and until you address it your position is utterly nonsensical. And when I say address it, I mean really address it. Not the usual “they’re following orders” crap because that is nothing more than an unsubstantiated cop out.
Also, what are these “other agendas” you speak of? To what end and who is the controlling hand here? You have done nothing to even begin to back yourself at all, what you do is cherry pick snipers of things and cram them into your own strange agenda. Shoehorning like crazy to fit this bizarre story.
This is a real virus. Yes, when all is said and done perhaps it may come to pass there’s been an overreaction, or the death rate isn’t as grim as suggested. I can agree that the data is fuzzy. I would also say that the data is fuzzy because you’re dealing with a real time pandemic that has to be tackled while compiling said data. I really don’t know why that’s suspicious. Perhaps you’ll tell us.
The most vulnerable people are dying because of a virus that preys on old and infirm people, for goodness sake! The one questionable policy, as far as I’m concerned, is one that puts off treatments of major illnesses like cancer and heart disease.
However, hospitals have been bracing for an absolute deluge of Covid-19 patients and, in that event, it’s probably not the best place for either cancer or cardiac patients to be. Why shield the most vulnerable only to compromise them by bringing them smack bang into the middle of a place stacked with contagious people? That’s a difficult choice to make, wouldn’t you say?
I’m trying as hard as I can to actually see what your position is but it’s so confused that I still can’t grasp it. You still haven’t told me, or anyone for that matter, how you could even hoax a virus. Seriously, how can that be done? There are literally hundreds of thousands of scientists and doctors worldwide studying this virus and it’s effects. Are they all in on the hoax? Have they all been briefed? Threatened? What?
That is a huge gaping hole in your argument and until you address it your position is utterly nonsensical. And when I say address it, I mean really address it. Not the usual “they’re following orders” crap because that is nothing more than an unsubstantiated cop out.
Also, what are these “other agendas” you speak of? To what end and who is the controlling hand here? You have done nothing to even begin to back yourself at all, what you do is cherry pick snipers of things and cram them into your own strange agenda. Shoehorning like crazy to fit this bizarre story.
This is a real virus. Yes, when all is said and done perhaps it may come to pass there’s been an overreaction, or the death rate isn’t as grim as suggested. I can agree that the data is fuzzy. I would also say that the data is fuzzy because you’re dealing with a real time pandemic that has to be tackled while compiling said data. I really don’t know why that’s suspicious. Perhaps you’ll tell us.
I'm (dare I say it) as socialist as they come and whilst I do agree that our govt were caught napping and failed to act quick enough during the initial onset of this global pandemic (e.g. they should have imposed the lockdown at least a fortnight earlier than they did), but I seriously don't buy into this 'other' CT about our govt having some 'hidden agenda', by using this pandemic to kill off certain factions of our society considered to be less worthy, and often the subject of hatred by the hard-righters (e.g. the vulnerable, disabled, ethnic minorities, etc).
Don't the hard-righters have grandparents too?
If it were so (and I'm not saying it is) I would expect that it would be the leftist/communist/globalist/socialist folks who would have an interest in killing off the weak... After all many of them a Darwinists... which of course is survival of the fittest.
Pamplemousse
05-05-20, 17:37
I'm (dare I say it) as socialist as they come and whilst I do agree that our govt were caught napping and failed to act quick enough during the initial onset of this global pandemic (e.g. they should have imposed the lockdown at least a fortnight earlier than they did), but I seriously don't buy into this 'other' CT about our govt having some 'hidden agenda', by using this pandemic to kill off certain factions of our society considered to be less worthy, and often the subject of hatred by the hard-righters (e.g. the vulnerable, disabled, ethnic minorities, etc).
It doesn't help that at one point HMG had actually appointed a eugenicist before the outrage saw him kicked out again. If you read the "below the line" comments of various newspapers and broadcasters' articles, there's always a group of people saying that overpopulation is the problem causing global warming (not their 5-litre SUVs and masses of electronic trinkets). I saw comments at the start of the Covid-19 outbreak where people were hoping the planet would have a 40% reduction in population from it.
And I suspect they had their own ideas about which people should form that 40%.:mad:
WiseMonkey
05-05-20, 19:58
The majority of Covid19 deaths have affected the elderly who have pre-existing, often multiple conditions. The countries hit the hardest have been those with vulnerable, aging populations. Covid19 mutated from an animal source to humans as did the other Covids, Sars and Mers so does not have an agenda. No government would use it as a population regulator, that equates to premeditated murder.
In saying that, I'm sure that Donald Trump wasn't too concerned about the numbers of deaths in New York, as they're largely Democratic voters!
MyNameIsTerry
05-05-20, 21:55
Don't the hard-righters have grandparents too?
Shh...that never gets answered (I don't mean by Lencoboy here) just like how all the older generations vote without caring about the younger ones because only those left leaning have children...:winks:
Perhaps you are all missing the real mission here? Speeding up deaths in older generations so we can finally have that long awaited revote on Brexit...:winks:
If it were so (and I'm not saying it is) I would expect that it would be the leftist/communist/globalist/socialist folks who would have an interest in killing off the weak... After all many of them a Darwinists... which of course is survival of the fittest.
The term “survival of the fittest” in terms of Darwinism isn’t literally meant to mean athletically fit or stronger than anything else, it describes the mechanism for natural selection. It is another way of saying the most suitable for a particular circumstance will survive and thrive.
As far as this pandemic goes, the concept of it being a hoax made up by persons unknown is utterly absurd. The existence of this virus has apparently fooled everyone, it has enveloped every specialist on earth and turned them all into devious lying criminals complicit in the murder of the worlds infirm.
Luckily, we have guys like David Icke and other random internet bloggers who are there to figure this sh*t out for us. They’re on to them, they really are. While the rest of us idiots worry about our relatives and about our long term employment, these guys are busy saving the world.
I swear, as if the actual story about this virus isn’t absurd enough. In 5 months a virus that most likely originated in a bat has brought the globe to its knees, pressurised economies and killed almost 300,000 people, whilst infecting over 3 million others. The one time the real story is actually nutty enough to be a conspiracy and these guys are now sceptical. The mind boggles, it really does.
I swear, as if the actual story about this virus isn’t absurd enough. In 5 months a virus that most likely originated in a bat has brought the globe to its knees, pressurised economies and killed almost 300,000 people, whilst infecting over 3 million others. The one time the real story is actually nutty enough to be a conspiracy and these guys are now sceptical. The mind boggles, it really does.
No, approx 300,000 people have died with CV, not directly of it, because we know over 95% have had serious pre-existing diseases/conditions. It is likely those dying of CV are less than 0.5%, which is being very liberal with the figures. But authorities aren't carrying out PMs to determine the true cause. "Symptoms" alone appear to suffice in CV going down on death certs.
And so what if millions have been "infected" by it and recovered? Billions are infected with flu every year, yet we don't have annual flu lockdowns :lac:
Lives vs. the Economy. Guess what won?
Good luck and as always...
Positive thoughts
No, approx 300,000 people have died with CV, not directly of it, because we know over 95% have had serious pre-existing diseases/conditions. It is likely those dying of CV are less than 0.5%, which is being very liberal with the figures. But authorities aren't carrying out PMs to determine the true cause. "Symptoms" alone appear to suffice in CV going down on death certs.
And so what if millions have been "infected" by it and recovered? Billions are infected with flu every year, yet we don't have annual flu lockdowns :lac:
I said earlier that in time it might be discovered we over reacted and I even went as far as to say, more than once, that the numbers need more scrutiny to find the true extent of the virus.
It’s not the flu though. We know the flu, we know for the most part who it targets, we know which treatments work and which ones don’t, and we also have vaccinations that offer high levels of protection. We don’t have any of those luxuries with Covid-19.
If we didn’t lockdown the numbers in hospital and dying would be far greater, I don’t think there’s any doubt about that is there?
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-politics-52553229
Prof Neil Ferguson
What an utter disgrace this man is with his mathematical model guess-timates. His wild predictions of 250-500,000 people dying due to CV helped initiate the UK lockdown - and he is found flouting his OWN distancing measures :lac:
This man was responsible for millions of livestock being culled in the so-called "foot-and-mouth" outbreak in 2000 and ending the livelihoods of hundreds of farmers in the process.
Anyone who understands anything about how mathematical models work knows they are guesswork based on the data you enter and axioms you start from. Yet these arrogant and elitist idiots don't think their own "rules" apply to them.
MyNameIsTerry
06-05-20, 05:02
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-politics-52553229
Prof Neil Ferguson
What an utter disgrace this man is with his mathematical model guess-timates. His wild predictions of 250-500,000 people dying due to CV helped initiate the UK lockdown - and he is found flouting his OWN distancing measures :lac:
This man was responsible for millions of livestock being culled in the so-called "foot-and-mouth" outbreak in 2000 and ending the livelihoods of hundreds of farmers in the process.
Anyone who understands anything about how mathematical models work knows they are guesswork based on the data you enter and axioms you start from. Yet these arrogant and elitist idiots don't think their own "rules" apply to them.
Dont forget the chief medical officer for Scotland. Caught out twice but still tried to make out it was all fine because there was a good reason to drag her whole family to a second home and wander around the village because she stayed 2 metres away from everyone. :doh:
She was only sorry because she was caught and would have continued breaking the very rules she is seen preaching in TV briefings all whilst the Scottish government complain at the public doing the exact same thing. And the First Minister tried to keep her in the job.
Talk about making it easy for everyone to call for her to resign.
Idiots. They just make it harder to enforce all this. But then we Cressida Dick, whoever is in charge around the hospital that thinks it's ok for paramedics to sit clapping in the middle of crowds on a bridge and mayor Khan.
MyNameIsTerry
06-05-20, 05:10
No, approx 300,000 people have died with CV, not directly of it, because we know over 95% have had serious pre-existing diseases/conditions. It is likely those dying of CV are less than 0.5%, which is being very liberal with the figures. But authorities aren't carrying out PMs to determine the true cause. "Symptoms" alone appear to suffice in CV going down on death certs.
And so what if millions have been "infected" by it and recovered? Billions are infected with flu every year, yet we don't have annual flu lockdowns :lac:
Currently it's showing about 554 infected in my city with 66 deaths. Doesn't that seem quite high? Around 13% but if you say 4 out 5 don't get detected via testing due to wildness then it's more around 2%.
Even that seems to high considering some of the data seen in the past. But it's the trouble with assuming someone dies from this when their existing condition is the reason.
I don't doubt a lot with pre existing conditions have died from it due to their weakened state and ability to combat it. However surely not 100% diagnosed died of it? (Remember that case The Guardian have had to delete?)
WiseMonkey
06-05-20, 05:11
Dont forget the chief medical officer for Scotland. Caught out twice but still tried to make out it was all fine because there was a good reason to drag her whole family to a second home and wander around the village because she stayed 2 metres away from everyone. :doh:
She was only sorry because she was caught and would have continued breaking the very rules she is seen preaching in TV briefings all whilst the Scottish government complain at the public doing the exact same thing. And the First Minister tried to keep her in the job.
Talk about making it easy for everyone to call for her to resign.
Idiots. They just make it harder to enforce all this. But then we Cressida Dick, whoever is in charge around the hospital that thinks it's ok for paramedics to sit clapping in the middle of crowds on a bridge and mayor Khan.
Yep, we've had the Minister of Health (no less) breaching the lockdown, by biking way out of his neighbourhood. The PM had stern words with him and said she's keeping him on while the covid19 crisis continues and then he'll be gone-burger :doh:
MyNameIsTerry
06-05-20, 05:17
Yep, we've had the Minister of Health (no less) breaching the lockdown, by biking way out of his neighbourhood. The PM had stern words with him and said she's keeping him on while the covid19 crisis continues and then he'll be gone-burger :doh:
What a clown.
One of the opposition party MPs outed himself on Twitter with a picture showing him socially distancing sitting having a glass of wine to celebrate his father's birthday in the garden. His father being a prominent ex politician.
People called him out on it and he came up with the excuse he was 'delivering essential supplies' :whistles:
I bet there are loads of our politicians doing stuff. So many of them don't have a clue at the best of times.
Dont forget the chief medical officer for Scotland. Caught out twice but still tried to make out it was all fine because there was a good reason to drag her whole family to a second home and wander around the village because she stayed 2 metres away from everyone. :doh:
She was only sorry because she was caught and would have continued breaking the very rules she is seen preaching in TV briefings all whilst the Scottish government complain at the public doing the exact same thing. And the First Minister tried to keep her in the job.
Talk about making it easy for everyone to call for her to resign.
Idiots. They just make it harder to enforce all this. But then we Cressida Dick, whoever is in charge around the hospital that thinks it's ok for paramedics to sit clapping in the middle of crowds on a bridge and mayor Khan.
The 'do as I say, not as I do' hypocrisy springs to mind here.
Bit like certain adults who constantly swear like troopers and sometimes even in the presence of children, but when the kids start repeating the bad language the adults start having hissy fits and harp on about 'kids today having no respect', but still defend their God-given rights to eff and jeff willy nilly in the name of free expression and the commonly-held belief that such words are the norm in today's language!!
Same with parents who constantly lecture kids that lashing out with physical violence is wrong and against the law (and rightly so), but still persist in walloping their kids willy nilly when they (the kids) do something wrong.
Sorry for going off in a tangent once again but I just couldn't help thinking of other examples of 'double standards'!!
MyNameIsTerry
06-05-20, 14:45
The 'do as I say, not as I do' hypocrisy springs to mind here.
Bit like certain adults who constantly swear like troopers and sometimes even in the presence of children, but when the kids start repeating the bad language the adults start having hissy fits and harp on about 'kids today having no respect', but still defend their God-given rights to eff and jeff willy nilly in the name of free expression and the commonly-held belief that such words are the norm in today's language!!
Same with parents who constantly lecture kids that lashing out with physical violence is wrong and against the law (and rightly so), but still persist in walloping their kids willy nilly when they (the kids) do something wrong.
Sorry for going off in a tangent once again but I just couldn't help thinking of other examples of 'double standards'!!
It must give the conspiracy theorists an orgasm as they would view it as more evidence of their hoax nonsense.
Pamplemousse
06-05-20, 18:13
Another theory being put forward by the Tory "superthinkers" as a way of exiting lockdown is to make the NHS "run hot". They do love their buzzwords, don't they?
Look that up. If that doesn't worry you, nothing will.
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-politics-52553229
Prof Neil Ferguson
What an utter disgrace this man is with his mathematical model guess-timates. His wild predictions of 250-500,000 people dying due to CV helped initiate the UK lockdown - and he is found flouting his OWN distancing measures :lac:
This man was responsible for millions of livestock being culled in the so-called "foot-and-mouth" outbreak in 2000 and ending the livelihoods of hundreds of farmers in the process.
Anyone who understands anything about how mathematical models work knows they are guesswork based on the data you enter and axioms you start from. Yet these arrogant and elitist idiots don't think their own "rules" apply to them.
This guy knows it's all BS. He won't be downloading the Mossad app on his phone either or injecting his kids with the fake vaccine.
whispershadow
06-05-20, 20:56
NHS run hot? Whats that mean?
Another theory being put forward by the Tory "superthinkers" as a way of exiting lockdown is to make the NHS "run hot". They do love their buzzwords, don't they?
Look that up. If that doesn't worry you, nothing will.
Pamplemousse
06-05-20, 21:08
To "run hot" is to operate something at maximum capacity.
Look under the "hawks" section here: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/apr/20/doves-hawks-uk-covid-19-lockdown-policy
Specifically, Michael Gove.
MyNameIsTerry
06-05-20, 22:08
This guy knows it's all BS. He won't be downloading the Mossad app on his phone either or injecting his kids with the fake vaccine.
Gary, my bingo card just got stamped. I was waiting for those pesky Israeli agents to pop up at some point since they seem to love false flagging us all. Do they even have a motive or are just cheeky little gremlins because their scattergun approach seems so wide ranging. The pesky blighters even got into my fridge and put some nasty mild on a lump of cheese I was looking forward to. :winks:
Gary, my bingo card just got stamped. I was waiting for those pesky Israeli agents to pop up at some point since they seem to love false flagging us all. Do they even have a motive or are just cheeky little gremlins because their scattergun approach seems so wide ranging. The pesky blighters even got into my fridge and put some nasty mild on a lump of cheese I was looking forward to. :winks:
I’m not even responding to him anymore, he appears to have either lost the plot completely or he’s just trolling for a reaction. The NHS are murderers, coronavirus doesn’t exist, Mossad app, fake vaccine, Bill Gates and his eugenics, I mean, what next? It gets to a point that he’s just boring to be honest.
Pamplemousse
07-05-20, 11:34
I’m not even responding to him anymore, he appears to have either lost the plot completely or he’s just trolling for a reaction. The NHS are murderers, coronavirus doesn’t exist, Mossad app, fake vaccine, Bill Gates and his eugenics, I mean, what next? It gets to a point that he’s just boring to be honest.
Indeed.
Do. Not. Feed. The. Troll.
Going back to the original question about when to and how best to exit the lockdown, I am still very much 'on the fence'.
Whatever the event it is likely to be highly controversial and pretty much every option will inevitably be met with derision.
I still believe the original lockdown was an absolute necessity and proportionate at the time (even though it should have happened at least two weeks earlier than it did), but the other side of me now believes that at some point the govt should bite the bullet and gradually relax certain restrictions, even though the number of deaths and new infections have, at worst, remained more or less stable over the past month or so, and they say one of the main reasons for the lockdown was not to overburden the NHS with excessive CV cases all in one go.
I know I'll be shot down in flames for stating the above but I was merely expressing my own POV, whilst at the same time trying my hardest to acknowledge the views and opinions of both camps who are for and against the easing of restrictions.
Going back to the original question about when to and how best to exit the lockdown, I am still very much 'on the fence'.
Whatever the event it is likely to be highly controversial and pretty much every option will inevitably be met with derision.
I still believe the original lockdown was an absolute necessity and proportionate at the time (even though it should have happened at least two weeks earlier than it did), but the other side of me now believes that at some point the govt should bite the bullet and gradually relax certain restrictions, even though the number of deaths and new infections have, at worst, remained more or less stable over the past month or so, and they say one of the main reasons for the lockdown was not to overburden the NHS with excessive CV cases all in one go.
I know I'll be shot down in flames for stating the above but I was merely expressing my own POV, whilst at the same time trying my hardest to acknowledge the views and opinions of both camps who are for and against the easing of restrictions.
I'm in agreement with what you said and for many, they feel the same. That said, the decision has been made by those we put in power. Trump has said "The cure can't be worse than the problem". That's the reality. Money is more important to the survival of our culture than human lives and in the big scheme of things, even with worse case scenarios, .05% of the world's population will die from it.
Countries will open, the virus will spread, we'll see a spike in numbers but again, the decision has been made. It comes down to what we've already been told. Common sense personal hygiene. Wash your hands often and keep sanitizer on hand, use a mask when in public places, practice social distancing etc. The rest is out of our control.
Good luck and as always...
Positive thoughts
I agree with you too, Lencoboy. It's a lottery and we have no control over what is decided. We need a united approach from the Government but that will never happen.
Pamplemousse
07-05-20, 14:47
Scotland has decided to not be as stupid as England and is extending its lockdown.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52574427
I agree with you too, Lencoboy. It's a lottery and we have no control over what is decided. We need a united approach from the Government but that will never happen.
Yes. And while I am trying to see both camps' POV within reason, and think it would most certainly be a big mistake for the whole lockdown to be suddenly lifted willy-nilly, I think certain restrictions should very gradually start to be eased on a 'trial-and-error' basis over the coming weeks, as the number of new infections appear (at the very least) to have stabilised over the past month and ATM they neither seem to be rocketing out of control, nor dropping to very low levels.
But of course that's up to the powers that be to do all the relevant risk assessments, etc, then make the appropriate decisions in due course.
Scotland has decided to not be as stupid as England and is extending its lockdown.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52574427
But surely still nothing has yet been announced for England?
I thought BoJo was supposed to be doing so this Sunday (10th May).
travelgirl77
07-05-20, 14:55
Going back to the original question about when to and how best to exit the lockdown, I am still very much 'on the fence'.
Whatever the event it is likely to be highly controversial and pretty much every option will inevitably be met with derision.
I still believe the original lockdown was an absolute necessity and proportionate at the time (even though it should have happened at least two weeks earlier than it did), but the other side of me now believes that at some point the govt should bite the bullet and gradually relax certain restrictions, even though the number of deaths and new infections have, at worst, remained more or less stable over the past month or so, and they say one of the main reasons for the lockdown was not to overburden the NHS with excessive CV cases all in one go.
I know I'll be shot down in flames for stating the above but I was merely expressing my own POV, whilst at the same time trying my hardest to acknowledge the views and opinions of both camps who are for and against the easing of restrictions.
I agree with pretty much everything you have said....and I do not think that this is a decision about money versus people's lives; it simply is not that black and white. To give some perspective, I work in human resources for an engineering firm with offices in multiple states. All of our offices and most of the construction sites are closed down. In the past month I have had to furlough 7 people throughout our company. They may have access to unemployment but it is not going to be able to match their current salaries. My firm is able to cover health insurance for these individuals for 90 days, but I imagine most companies cannot do this. In addition to people losing their jobs and income (which absolutely has an impact on a person's health) I had to sign off on an unpaid leave form for an employee who has decided that they need to go to a treatment center because being quarantined and not having the daily flux and interaction of a job has brought substance abuse to the surface. I have multiple employees calling me because they just cannot function; cannot stay motivated...it is heart wrenching. At the same time, I have had three employees with the virus and one whose elderly parents had the virus. They are all doing fine now (not to belittle the sickness at all). Yesterday I was speaking with our health and safety manager and she was saying that she was thankful that she was diagnosed with depression as a teenager because she has the tools to be able to work through some of this during this time. Her real concern is with all of those people who have never had to address it before and now these quarantines are bringing them to light and they have absolutely no outlet.
It is a multi-layered issue and I would never be so smug to say that it is ludicrous that things are opening up. I am fortunate in that I work from home and my husband is essential, but I cannot begrudge one person who has been let go from their job and is anxious to get back to work to provide for their families and just to have some sense of normalcy. I honestly feel like pretty much every country is trying to do the best they can do with the knowledge they have at hand. There is not some big scorecard out there which shows this country got it right and this one got it wrong. We all have different factors that impact the spread and the percentages. And, with the ever changing facts and figures, it is like trying to shoot at a moving target. Heck, they come out with a new symptom every single day! They have told us to stay at home and now it is coming out that most of the illnesses are reported among people who are at home or in assisted living homes. The projections have been incorrect; when it was first in any country has been way off; how it is transmitted has been wrong; treatments have been found lacking....it is incredibly frustrating. It is hard to believe anything that has come out form any one source because the next week it is overridden by something else, even among scientists and medical professionals.
All this to say, it is a catch-22 by any government right now: damned if you do, damned if you don't.
venusbluejeans
07-05-20, 17:37
closed temporarily pending admin review
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