View Full Version : Covid-19 discussion thread
WiseMonkey
01-05-20, 01:47
Latest info from Korea as some of us had suspected:
http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20200429000724 (http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20200429000724)
Great news! I knew there had to be an explanation, but it's good to see some solid studies!
WiredIncorrectly
01-05-20, 15:08
What's important to note is a virus will mutate every time it spreads. When it goes from me, to you, it has already mutated in you. So, when you pass it on it's a different virus from before. The virus now in the US may be different from the virus in Korea. I've been watching lectures from Columbia University on Virology. The lecturer has made them free, and he teaches the course for free at the University because no other University delivers a complete virology course.
WiredIncorrectly
01-05-20, 15:10
In this first lecture of my 2020 Columbia University virology course, we define viruses, discuss their discovery and fundamental properties, including whether or not they are alive, and explain why they are the most awesome biological entities on Earth.
This course will teach you more about viruses than you can ever learn from media or anywhere else. It's the only complete Virology course on the planet and the only University that teaches the complete course. The lecturer teaches them to students for free. He's employed at the University for different reason, but set up the course to teach everything there is to know about viruses.
COVID-19 is also discussed and I think it was part of the reason he made these lectures free. The first is below. Enjoy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3NhPgOoX4
MRS STRESS ED
01-05-20, 15:35
If this news is true its brilliant the problem is there's so much crap about it people struggle what to believe hopefully all good
best wishes
WiseMonkey
02-05-20, 00:05
What's important to note is a virus will mutate every time it spreads. When it goes from me, to you, it has already mutated in you. So, when you pass it on it's a different virus from before. The virus now in the US may be different from the virus in Korea. I've been watching lectures from Columbia University on Virology. The lecturer has made them free, and he teaches the course for free at the University because no other University delivers a complete virology course.
Yes, a mutation is a change in a virus's code however most mutations don't really change how the virus functions. So even as Covid19 is mutating, immunologists believe that only one strain of the virus exists, which infects cells in the throat and lungs. The fact that this pattern of infection is worldwide could show that Covid19 can't alter itself too much.
Even though everyone's experience of Covid19 is unique, it appears each person is building up their own antibodies against it thus building immunity. What isn't known yet is how long this immunity lasts. The good news is that people who were infected with the other two known Covids, Sars and Mers have gained some immunity so hopefully Covid19 will follow their pattern until a vaccine is created.
MyNameIsTerry
02-05-20, 04:42
Thanks for posting this, Lesley. Good news and ticks off one less concern. With this in mind antibody testing will now be more concrete won't it?
WiseMonkey
02-05-20, 05:48
Thanks for posting this, Lesley. Good news and ticks off one less concern. With this in mind antibody testing will now be more concrete won't it?
Yes it certainly should, I was reading that several antibody tests have been produced but so far they are variable in accuracy of which infections they can detect, ie they have to be highly sensitive to covid19 only, so they are evolving like finding a vaccine. I should imagine we'll have an accurate antibody test before a vaccine.
If this news is true its brilliant the problem is there's so much crap about it people struggle what to believe hopefully all good
best wishes
I presume you mean a lot of the sad cases who have a habit of getting all cynical and sarky at the slightest hint of any good news. And not just over any potential progress concerning COVID-19 either.
Yes it certainly should, I was reading that several antibody tests have been produced but so far they are variable in accuracy of which infections they can detect, ie they have to be highly sensitive to covid19 only, so they are evolving like finding a vaccine. I should imagine we'll have an accurate antibody test before a vaccine.
The big question is whether you’re infectious or not. It’s all well and good saying an individual is personally safe from the virus but can they still shed infectious virus to others?
It was always almost certain that infection would produce at least short term immunity, but the reason that the W.H.O, amongst others, are nervous at the prospect of antibody testing is because we are still a long way off proving that antibodies fight infection within as well as ensuring an individual is no longer contagious to others.
It’s a good first step, however, to show that individuals are protected to a certain degree. Now they need to start ensuring protected individuals are no longer infectious to others.
I presume you mean a lot of the sad cases who have a habit of getting all cynical and sarky at the slightest hint of any good news. And not just over any potential progress concerning COVID-19 either.
And I don't necessarily mean anyone on here BTW.
MRS STRESS ED
02-05-20, 17:28
[QUOTE=Lencoboy;1945969]I presume you mean a lot of the sad cases who have a habit of getting all cynical and sarky at the slightest hint of any good news. And not just over any potential progress concerning COVID-19
no l mean the press printing crap, it confuses people and isn't helpful to people as to what to believe
best wishes
[QUOTE=Lencoboy;1945969]I presume you mean a lot of the sad cases who have a habit of getting all cynical and sarky at the slightest hint of any good news. And not just over any potential progress concerning COVID-19
no l mean the press printing crap, it confuses people and isn't helpful to people as to what to believe
best wishes
I know what you mean, my apologies.
MRS STRESS ED
02-05-20, 20:39
No Lencoboy please don't apologise you done nothing to be sorry for xx
best wishes
WiredIncorrectly
02-05-20, 20:44
If it's true that you can't get it twice than herd immunity should continue. If not, the lockdown will just prolong until the NHS is able to cope. But, the NHS have hospitals they're not even using so may aswell carry on as normal no?
If it's true that you can't get it twice than herd immunity should continue. If not, the lockdown will just prolong until the NHS is able to cope. But, the NHS have hospitals they're not even using so may aswell carry on as normal no?
The problem with that is that if you just allow the virus to rip through the community, you’ll overwhelm the healthcare system.
Yes, you’ll achieve herd immunity much quicker, but the loss of life not only due to the virus itself, but indirectly due to an overwhelmed healthcare system would be unfathomable.
The UK government were actually going for herd immunity, whether they deny it or not, it was said, but imperial college drew up a model that suggested a death toll of 500,000 and, if recall correctly, 1.5 million hospitalisations. You can see why they swiftly changed tactic after that.
WiredIncorrectly
02-05-20, 20:54
The problem with that is that if you just allow the virus to rip through the community, you’ll overwhelm the healthcare system.
Yes, you’ll achieve herd immunity much quicker, but the loss of life not only due to the virus itself, but indirectly due to an overwhelmed healthcare system would be unfathomable.
The UK government were actually going for herd immunity, whether they deny it or not, it was said, but imperial college drew up a model that suggested a death toll of 500,000 and, if recall correctly, 1.5 million hospitalisations. You can see why they swiftly changed tactic after that.
I agree, but that's why I mentioned there's still those new hospitals that are not being used. Maybe those hospitals are there in case of a larger outbreak. What you say certainly makes sense.
I agree, but that's why I mentioned there's still those new hospitals that are not being used. Maybe those hospitals are there in case of a larger outbreak. What you say certainly makes sense.
Keep in mind there’s an average of about 5000 new cases in the UK every day. That figure is slowly going down but for every day that passes a fair percentage of that 5000 will need hospitalisation.
The new hospitals aren’t needed at this moment but that could easily change literally in a few days. This virus is unpredictable in that regard. Hopefully they do remain empty but it’s better to have them there just in case.
MyNameIsTerry
02-05-20, 21:18
Also it's a good idea to have treatments ready before let it out of the box...
WiseMonkey
03-05-20, 02:27
The big question is whether you’re infectious or not. It’s all well and good saying an individual is personally safe from the virus but can they still shed infectious virus to others?
It was always almost certain that infection would produce at least short term immunity, but the reason that the W.H.O, amongst others, are nervous at the prospect of antibody testing is because we are still a long way off proving that antibodies fight infection within as well as ensuring an individual is no longer contagious to others.
It’s a good first step, however, to show that individuals are protected to a certain degree. Now they need to start ensuring protected individuals are no longer infectious to others.
I've read that the higher the viral load, the longer a person is infectious so these people would be in isolation longer until they are symptom free. Generally most are considered non-contagious after 14 days from the onset of symptoms. However, some residual RNA of the virus may remain but it is considered to be not infectious. In the same way viral RNA has been found in the carpets of cruise ships, but is inactive.
It appears that infected people (who have spent 14 days in quarantine) are not passing it on to others in their families afterwards, suggesting that this time frame is accurate.
WiredIncorrectly
15-05-20, 17:50
I just tried to shield myself from news resources, I do not follow the number of people who are infected and so on. also doing creative work, it helps me a lot. Well, worries about my dog do not let you get bored.
Creative work is an excellent way to deal with mental health and worry. I fully agree. Welcome to the forum Tresten :)
I just tried to shield myself from news resources, I do not follow the number of people who are infected and so on. also doing creative work, it helps me a lot. Well, worries about my dog do not let you get bored.
I presume you mean in terms of attending to your dog's general needs rather than it being affected by anything CV-related.
Strangely, hardly anyone seems to mention CV worries concerning dogs anymore, either the likelihood of the dogs themselves catching the virus, or unwittingly spreading the virus within general environments, unlike earlier on in the pandemic there seemed to be quite a few people on here who were extremely concerned.
I presume you mean in terms of attending to your dog's general needs rather than it being affected by anything CV-related.
Strangely, hardly anyone seems to mention CV worries concerning dogs anymore, either the likelihood of the dogs themselves catching the virus, or unwittingly spreading the virus within general environments, unlike earlier on in the pandemic there seemed to be quite a few people on here who were extremely concerned.
Not sure about dogs, but goats and pawpaw fruit have tested positive for covid-19.
Tanzania coronavirus kits raise suspicion after goat and pawpaw test positive
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/coronavirus-tanzania-test-kits-suspicion-goat-pawpaw-positive-a9501291.html
https://greatgameindia.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Tanzania-Kicks-Out-WHO-After-Goat-Papaya-Samples-Came-COVID-19-Positive.jpg
Damn...Goat curry's off the menu! Always thought it had a little bit of je ne sais quoi to it
WiredIncorrectly
15-05-20, 21:12
Damn...Goat curry's off the menu! Always thought it had a little bit of je ne sais quoi to it
That's my meal out the window for the weekend. Was hoping to a do a Jamaican goat curry.
WiredIncorrectly
16-05-20, 00:18
This is a very interesting watch. MP Sara Cunial accuses Bill Gates of crimes against humanity. Can anyone tell me more about this lady? Is she credible or the Italian version of Farage?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn3EE7EMfXc&feature=youtu.be
WiredIncorrectly
16-05-20, 00:21
Ok, so her party: Five Star Movement have the following idelogies:
Populism
Anti-establishment
Anti-globalization
Direct democracy
E-democracy
Environmentalist
Soft Euroscepticism
... so a Farage type group. I had a feeling.
Humanity is one total cluster isn't it? :wacko:
Positive thoughts
WiseMonkey
16-05-20, 06:24
We've recently has a couple of cases test a 'weak positive', both were sick a couple of months ago and on further testing, threw up this result. One of these had initially tested negative and was classified as a probable case before testing a 'weak positive' two days ago. The test is picking up remnants of RNA which is not contagious anymore because of the length of time after infection (2 months).
Pamplemousse
16-05-20, 10:04
The co-founder of the Five Star Movement, Beppe Grillo, is a former comedian.
That explains a lot Pample :wacko::roflmao:
Pamplemousse
16-05-20, 10:41
That explains a lot Pample :wacko::roflmao:
Here you go - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beppe_Grillo
The party is now led by Luigi di Maio.
Pamplemousse
16-05-20, 10:51
I agree, but that's why I mentioned there's still those new hospitals that are not being used. Maybe those hospitals are there in case of a larger outbreak. What you say certainly makes sense.
The 'Nightingale' hospitals were built in case things went badly awry, and remain on standby - the Government had to be seen to be doing something. However, if it goes badly wrong in the future, my major concern is how you staff them because there's only a finite pool of people qualified to do so.
Finally, someone (in this case a female) with a pair.
Doesn't matter who she is or what political entity she "represents". Research the information she provides, esp Gates and his GAVI foundation (which is responsible for vaccination progs in Africa), Event 201/2030, mRNA vaccines (which is what COVID-19 vaccine will be), quantum tattoos and more.
The 'Nightingale' hospitals were built in case things went badly awry, and remain on standby - the Government had to be seen to be doing something. However, if it goes badly wrong in the future, my major concern is how you staff them because there's only a finite pool of people qualified to do so.
Hopefully a lot more will be known about treatment and (at the very least) effective management of CV by then in the unfortunate event of a big future relapse. Surely even now a lot more is already known about the virus than this time two months ago when it was all just starting to spiral out of control, but obviously there is still much more work to be done.
Dammit, it looks like I've opened a can of worms here!!
WiseMonkey
16-05-20, 14:25
Hopefully a lot more will be known about treatment and (at the very least) effective management of CV by then in the unfortunate event of a big future relapse. Surely even now a lot more is already known about the virus than this time two months ago when it was all just starting to spiral out of control, but obviously there is still much more work to be done.
Yes, I'm sure they know more now and it's a work in progress so lots more research to be done. Until there's a vaccine or another country (probably Australia) has control of the virus, our borders will remain closed. I read a report that they'd be closed till the end of the year but who knows on that one.
Yes, I'm sure they know more now and it's a work in progress so lots more research to be done. Until there's a vaccine or another country (probably Australia) has control of the virus, our borders will remain closed. I read a report that they'd be closed till the end of the year but who knows on that one.
Obviously something only time will tell.
Before anyone starts getting uptight over our R-rate announcement yesterday, they said it is between 0.7 and 1.0, and it is anything above 1.0 where the risk of CV infection becomes problematic. And they admitted that this is based on data from a couple of weeks ago, and bears no connection to the first stage of relaxation of certain lockdown restrictions (in England) at the start of this week.
Also, it is worth bearing in mind that although newly-recorded CV cases in the UK have edged up very slightly over the past couple of days (and still less than 4000 as of yesterday's count), it may not necessarily be due to the aforementioned relaxing of restrictions (possibly still a bit too early to have a significant impact as yet?), but probably more due to the speedy ramp-up of people being tested for the virus once again.
In addition, the underlying trend (7-day rolling average) of both CV deaths and new CV cases yesterday was still down.
Pamplemousse
16-05-20, 15:22
Hopefully a lot more will be known about treatment and (at the very least) effective management of CV by then in the unfortunate event of a big future relapse. Surely even now a lot more is already known about the virus than this time two months ago when it was all just starting to spiral out of control, but obviously there is still much more work to be done.
One of the most promising things I've seen to manage this at a late stage is the prevention and management of "cytokine storms".
https://www.newscientist.com/term/cytokine-storm/
MyNameIsTerry
16-05-20, 16:33
Does having a goatee make you more susceptible to the virus? :biggrin:
MyNameIsTerry
16-05-20, 17:02
Before anyone starts getting uptight over our R-rate announcement yesterday, they said it is between 0.7 and 1.0, and it is anything above 1.0 where the risk of CV infection becomes problematic. And they admitted that this is based on data from a couple of weeks ago, and bears no connection to the first stage of relaxation of certain lockdown restrictions (in England) at the start of this week.
Also, it is worth bearing in mind that although newly-recorded CV cases in the UK have edged up very slightly over the past couple of days (and still less than 4000 as of yesterday's count), it may not necessarily be due to the aforementioned relaxing of restrictions (possibly still a bit too early to have a significant impact as yet?), but probably more due to the speedy ramp-up of people being tested for the virus once again.
In addition, the underlying trend (7-day rolling average) of both CV deaths and new CV cases yesterday was still down.
Yes, thanks for that. I have a feeling this uptick is going to become a political weapon for some. They will jump to shut it all back down again when it may not even be connected. The same can be seen in Germany right now.
Wouldn't it be curious if they linked the dates to the times the beaches have been crowded in the hot sun...:whistles:
ankietyjoe
16-05-20, 17:13
Finally, someone (in this case a female) with a pair.
Doesn't matter who she is or what political entity she "represents". Research the information she provides, esp Gates and his GAVI foundation (which is responsible for vaccination progs in Africa), Event 201/2030, mRNA vaccines (which is what COVID-19 vaccine will be), quantum tattoos and more.
Actually, it very much does. Unless it happens to coincide with your own predisposed belief in conspiratorial nonsense.
Actually, it very much does. Unless it happens to coincide with your own predisposed belief in conspiratorial nonsense.
You're using the exact psychology of distraction I'm warning against. I asked for people to research areas pertaining to speech in video, not my so-called "beliefs". Why don't you comment on information in video, or is it beneath you to waste time on what you deem "conspiratorial nonsense"?
You're being patronising and disingenuous in your usual "predisposed" way :lac:
Does having a goatee make you more susceptible to the virus? :biggrin:
Only if you have a goatee and ahem....pass wind. Apparently reliable sources have it that farting can spread the virus so please can we all practise methane distancing?
Pamplemousse
16-05-20, 18:08
Wouldn't it be curious if they linked the dates to the times the beaches have been crowded in the hot sun...:whistles:
Well, it's just over a week since the gutter press said "Hurrah! Lockdown is over!" on that infamous Thursday and people immediately started behaving like they used to...
https://www.foxnews.com/us/colorado-lowers-coronavirus-death-count
While I can appreciate the reasons behind the spin, in the big picture, its irrelevant. When you're talking 100's of thousand to millions of people, even 25K off doesn't change a thing. Fox is just a spin machine. Heck, new cases alone topped 11000 so far today! To back this up, they're talking about a difference of 270 and again, a drop in the bucket of the big picture.
The fact is the death rate has been consistent (1500-2000 a day) for the last 6 weeks with infection rate is climbing again since restrictions eased.
Positive thoughts
ankietyjoe
16-05-20, 18:57
Fox 'news'.
Another Murdoch branded vomit pipe.
Yeah, if it's coming from Fox...
Pamplemousse
16-05-20, 19:48
Fox 'news'.
Another Murdoch branded vomit pipe.
I wonder what Times Radio will be like? It's being launched as a direct competitor to Radio 4. However, it's on DAB and I don't have a DAB radio :)
When did Nigel Farage become anti-establishment? He's been propped up by the establishment and MSM for years. UKIP was a controlled operation by the powers that be to crush genuine nationalism in Britain.
MyNameIsTerry
16-05-20, 21:17
Well, it's just over a week since the gutter press said "Hurrah! Lockdown is over!" on that infamous Thursday and people immediately started behaving like they used to...
Luckily things are no different where I am...do far. But my brother lives in Yorkshire near the coast and told me today busier beaches are getting more visitors again.
I thought allowing sunbathing was stupid.
MyNameIsTerry
16-05-20, 21:19
Only if you have a goatee and ahem....pass wind. Apparently reliable sources have it that farting can spread the virus so please can we all practise methane distancing?
:ohmy::blush: they had better ban baked beans then!
MyNameIsTerry
16-05-20, 21:30
Forgetting the source are the figures correct?
It's good to see movement towards more accurate counting. We can't understand the true picture without this and there is little point in the media lauding some countries strategy when we have been over counting and they have simply counter correctly.
MyNameIsTerry
16-05-20, 21:36
When did Nigel Farage become anti-establishment? He's been propped up by the establishment and MSM for years. UKIP was a controlled operation by the powers that be to crush genuine nationalism in Britain.
Effed that one up then didn't they? They are always telling us Brexit is nationalism. :biggrin: UKIP looked pathetic compared to what came as a result of Parliament dragging it's heals.
Nigel could never be anti establishment from such a background just as most MPs couldn't. All 'man of the people' millionaires.
WiredIncorrectly
16-05-20, 21:41
This one isn't no conspiracy BS. Worth a watch definitely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=289NWm85eas
Dr. Jay Bhattacharaya from Stanford Medicine makes his third appearance on Uncommon Knowledge in eight weeks, this time to discuss a new COVID-19 survey of Major League Baseball employees he co-authored. The survey tested more than 5,600 employees across all 26 Major League Baseball clubs across the country. The results are yet another data set showing how COVID-19 spreads across geographical and economic lines. Dr. Bhattacharya also discusses the very real health risks associated with a prolonged lockdown and answers some of the questions raised by his last survey of Santa Clara County.
WiredIncorrectly
16-05-20, 21:51
I think it's a very good idea to read all sides of a story/issue; even "conspiracy". I'm not saying take no notice of what she says, just keep in mind the views she represents; which may or may not be good. I don't know the lady much at all.
I remember the video that came out about how the Federal Reserve and money works. People would laugh and say it's nonsense. But it's now common knowledge.
To be able to freely speak your opinions and have them respected is an absolute must right now.
WiredIncorrectly
16-05-20, 21:53
:ohmy::blush: they had better ban baked beans then!
Damn Terry. You wasn't joking when you said you was living on beans. Find a way to turn that methane into electricity and you're onto something.
MyNameIsTerry
16-05-20, 22:02
Damn Terry. You wasn't joking when you said you was living on beans. Find a way to turn that methane into electricity and you're onto something.
I can't find a plug that fits :blush:
I suppose we could pipe it through the house. Stick bum up against a pipe end and 'top it up'. The slogans will be easy since we can just alter the Smart Power ones :winks: The trouble is the carbon footprint, what we save in recycling of 'emissions' we end up losing through air freshener usage...:biggrin:https://yoursmiles.org/tsmile/sex/t1588.gif
Forgetting the source are the figures correct?
It's good to see movement towards more accurate counting. We can't understand the true picture without this and there is little point in the media lauding some countries strategy when we have been over counting and they have simply counter correctly.
Ah! A reasonable voice in the wilderness.
What's wrong with accurate numbers?
Why do the lefties go insane if the numbers aren't high as they want them to be? Why do they want high numbers of covid-19 deaths?
so what the lefties are saying is because the article is on Fox the state of Colorado is lying. Why would the state of Colorado lie? It just wants accurate numbers which actually lowered the covid-19 deaths by almost 25%.
And FMP if it doesn't matter why keep count at all?
The lefties twisted logic says the more covid deaths the better chance they will have to beat Trump in November. That is a total pipe dream...and sick.
N.
WiseMonkey
16-05-20, 22:56
One of the most promising things I've seen to manage this at a late stage is the prevention and management of "cytokine storms".
https://www.newscientist.com/term/cytokine-storm/
Hi Pample, yes and it's why some countries health advisers latched onto the idea of Chloroquine as it's an immuno-suppressant. But this medication is not a quick fix and is cumulative in effect and can take up to 3 months (and sometimes up to a year) before it takes full effect. Chloroquine is an immuno-suppressant that's not a steroid like predisone so it's often a first line treatment for conditions like Lupus.
People with autoimmune conditions have an over active immune system (it runs high) and the immune's killer T cells are constantly out in force looking for perceived invaders (that usually aren't there). This can be helpful at times because when they encounter a common cold, the body can react quickly to zap the bug before it gets a grip on the body. However sometimes the opposite happens and the body can have a long incubation period (where symptoms just smoulder away) before the virus finally kicks in with full force then it sticks around for weeks afterwards, leaving the person exhausted. I've experienced both.
This is why it's uncertain whether people who have autoimmune conditions are considered at high risk when it comes to covid19.
Informative article :)
And FMP if it doesn't matter why keep count at all?
You cannot debate a Trump supporter. Its like playing chess with a monkey. He jumps on the board, knocks over all the pieces, throws poo at you and struts around like he won.
If something as irrelevant as stories like this encourage you to not wear a mask or properly social distance then more power to you!
Good luck and as always...
Positive thoughts
There'll soon be an mRNA vax: https://scopeblog.stanford.edu/2015/01/29/with-a-gates-foundation-grant-stanford-launches-major-effort-to-expedite-vaccine-discovery/
glassgirlw
17-05-20, 01:02
You cannot debate a Trump supporter. Its like playing chess with a monkey. He jumps on the board, knocks over all the pieces, throws poo at you and struts around like he won
This literally made me spit out the water I had just taken a drink of. Amazing. My new favorite quote, hands down. :roflmao:
You cannot debate a Trump supporter. Its like playing chess with a monkey. He jumps on the board, knocks over all the pieces, throws poo at you and struts around like he won.
If something as irrelevant as stories like this encourage you to not wear a mask or properly social distance then more power to you!
Good luck and as always...
Positive thoughts
Brilliant repose FMP. You've lost a little off your fastball apparently.
Brilliant repose FMP. You've lost a little off your fastball apparently.
You cannot debate a Trump supporter. Its like playing chess with a monkey. He jumps on the board, knocks over all the pieces, throws poo at you and struts around like he won.
Positive thoughts
Positive thoughts
Another lefty disposed of.
Next!
Another lefty disposed of.
Next!
You cannot debate a Trump supporter. Its like playing chess with a monkey. He jumps on the board, knocks over all the pieces, throws poo at you and struts around like he won.
Positive thoughts
WiseMonkey
17-05-20, 03:06
Fox 'news'. Another Murdoch branded vomit pipe.
So true, and DT's fav of course :wacko:
Another lefty disposed of.
Next!
N, compared to you, everyone is on the left LOL It's okay though...I know I'm your favorite ;)
WiseMonkey
17-05-20, 03:16
You cannot debate a Trump supporter. Its like playing chess with a monkey. He jumps on the board, knocks over all the pieces, throws poo at you and struts around like he won.
Oi, give the monkey some credit, he's very cunning but will share his bananas! :winks: I guess there could be some comparison here, as they can both indulge in epic feats of circuitousness!
WiredIncorrectly
17-05-20, 04:33
I don't get this left or right business. Why does one have to be put in a left or right box for their views? Does my swede in. Every discussion ends up into a political debate.
MyNameIsTerry
17-05-20, 04:41
I don't get this left or right business. Why does one have to be put in a left or right box for their views? Does my swede in. Every discussion ends up into a political debate.
I read across both sides. It's closed minded to only consider one. Exactly what is being said here about Fox is said about The Guardian, The Indy, The Telegraph, The Mirror, BBC, Channel 4...
You know it will be biased towards the owners beliefs. They all are.
As long as the core data in the article is accurate I can choose to ignore the author's wibbling. But it is interesting, and thought provoking, to hear the other side. No one would learn or change if not.
MyNameIsTerry
17-05-20, 04:48
Ah! A reasonable voice in the wilderness.
What's wrong with accurate numbers?
Why do the lefties go insane if the numbers aren't high as they want them to be? Why do they want high numbers of covid-19 deaths?
so what the lefties are saying is because the article is on Fox the state of Colorado is lying. Why would the state of Colorado lie? It just wants accurate numbers which actually lowered the covid-19 deaths by almost 25%.
And FMP if it doesn't matter why keep count at all?
The lefties twisted logic says the more covid deaths the better chance they will have to beat Trump in November. That is a total pipe dream...and sick.
N.
The facts matter no matter the source. Opinions are optional.
Same as in politics really. Boo evil Tories, boo evil Labour.
We all have our biases but it makes you wonder about polarisation when whole sources are ignored in favour of only those that fit to your beliefs? Both sides do it. They all bend the truth so sticking to one just denies you interesting viewpoints. I often found listening to the anti Brexit side revealed interesting information and prompted me to articles to make my own mind up.
I don't get this left or right business. Why does one have to be put in a left or right box for their views? Does my swede in. Every discussion ends up into a political debate.
It's easier for Noivous to deal with us if he can put us in a box...right or left LOL
WiseMonkey
17-05-20, 10:03
I don't get this left or right business. Why does one have to be put in a left or right box for their views? Does my swede in. Every discussion ends up into a political debate.
Both our main parties Labour and National are centralist so one is more left and the other more right but no extremes. National is a farmers and small business Party. We have MMP (which I've mentioned before) so we also have smaller parties who generally align themselves with the major ones to create a majority government. About 20% of the populace are swinging voters.
Pamplemousse
17-05-20, 10:14
The TL : DR version of that is "for the amount of lives it may save, the lockdown is adversely affecting the economy so let's lift it", which doesn't surprise me given the mission statement of the Hoover Institution is
"[...] the Hoover Institution seeks to improve the human condition by advancing ideas that promote economic opportunity and prosperity"
No mention of the disproportionate effect of the virus upon the obese and little mention of BAME members of society, just "the sick and old", or perhaps to give it a UK slant, the "economically inactive".
Don't get me wrong - I sat and listened intently to it with an open mind but that was my takeaway from it.
Yes, thanks for that. I have a feeling this uptick is going to become a political weapon for some. They will jump to shut it all back down again when it may not even be connected. The same can be seen in Germany right now.
Wouldn't it be curious if they linked the dates to the times the beaches have been crowded in the hot sun...:whistles:
Yes, I really hate the way all this is becoming extremely politicised right now and the so-called 'tribalism' between the pro-lockdown and anti-lockdown camps, and of course, the usual 'know-it-alls' out in full force. Bit like the Brexiteers vs Remainers, though that's another story.
Pamplemousse
17-05-20, 10:21
This literally made me spit out the water I had just taken a drink of. Amazing. My new favorite quote, hands down. :roflmao:
It's an adaptation of the older "playing chess with a pigeon" ;)
I bet had the opposite happened (undercounting of death stats), we would all be up in arms just the same, and accusing our govts the world over of 'cover-ups' and 'playing down' the impacts of the pandemic.
Sometimes I think it's better for the authorities to 'play it safe' by overestimating stuff like this rather than underestimating, even if they may inadvertently be accused of 'scare-mongering', etc.
Pamplemousse
17-05-20, 10:41
Nigel could never be anti establishment from such a background just as most MPs couldn't. All 'man of the people' millionaires.
I suppose our current government could be "of the people" if your "people" just happened to have attended a public school and went up to Oxford... ;)
Pamplemousse
17-05-20, 10:47
I bet had the opposite happened (undercounting of death stats), we would all be up in arms just the same, and accusing our govts the world over of 'cover-ups' and 'playing down' the impacts of the pandemic.
Sometimes I think it's better for the authorities to 'play it safe' by overestimating stuff like this rather than underestimating, even if they may inadvertently be accused of 'scare-mongering', etc.
I think the UK has been undercounting the death toll to be fair, and only revises it when they get found out. I thought it interesting that Johnson stumbled for words when he was asked at PMQs (which has been quite civilised when it hasn't got hundreds of braying idiots around!) why we shouldn't use international comparisons, only for Starmer to say "well, you've been using these slides of international death tolls for weeks in your daily briefings" and pulled one out on him. Oddly enough, they disappeared when they showed we were the worst in Europe.
In my profession we were taught to give the worst-case figures on measurements, not the best.
Pamplemousse
17-05-20, 10:53
Yes, thanks for that. I have a feeling this uptick is going to become a political weapon for some. They will jump to shut it all back down again when it may not even be connected. The same can be seen in Germany right now.
As a lover of the English language in all its majesty, I'm more angry at the use of that ugly word 'uptick' :mad: - what's wrong with the perfectly acceptable 'increase'? :D
I blame the BBC for adopting that one...
When did Nigel Farage become anti-establishment? He's been propped up by the establishment and MSM for years. UKIP was a controlled operation by the powers that be to crush genuine nationalism in Britain.
I personally think it was just another 'passing fad' at the time. Like over the past decade or so we have seen the likes of the English Defence League (EDL)/Britain First, Black Lives Matter (BLM), Gilets Jaunes (Yellow Vesters), Extinction Rebellion (XR) to name but a few, and most of those 'movements' now barely seem to get the intense media attention they received during their respective heydays.
I think the UK has been undercounting the death toll to be fair, and only revises it when they get found out. I thought it interesting that Johnson stumbled for words when he was asked at PMQs (which has been quite civilised when it hasn't got hundreds of braying idiots around!) why we shouldn't use international comparisons, only for Starmer to say "well, you've been using these slides of international death tolls for weeks in your daily briefings" and pulled one out on him. Oddly enough, they disappeared when they showed we were the worst in Europe.
In my profession we were taught to give the worst-case figures on measurements, not the best.
Surely we've been there before with say, the crime and unemployment stats, especially when the ways that the stats for those things are compiled also get chopped and changed every so often. And in fairness, that's been known to be happening for ages, under both the Tories and Labour.
Pamplemousse
17-05-20, 11:25
Surely we've been there before with say, the crime and unemployment stats, especially when the ways that the stats for those things are compiled also get chopped and changed every so often. And in fairness, that's been known to be happening for ages, under both the Tories and Labour.
Definitely. In the 80s during the Thatcher era there was a concerted effort to massage the runaway employment figures by putting people onto sickness benefits which of course led to its own problems in years to come. My father, then made redundant at 64, went for his usual check-up with his GP and he told him he'd been made redundant. To which the doctor replied "I'll sign you off sick, the money's better and you won't have to queue up to sign on every two weeks either". I still remember my father coming home and telling us that with quite a smile on his face!
Later of course we had 'New' Labour tackling the sickness benefits mess in a way that led to the disabled chaining themselves to railings. Was that before Blair got God? Can't remember but I remember the distress and upset it caused my late wife, who was indeed disabled - there were many sleepless nights for both of us as I tried to comfort her at her most distressed. I learned from experience to hate 'New' Labour even more than I hated the Tories.
Pamplemousse
17-05-20, 11:33
I personally think it was just another 'passing fad' at the time. Like over the past decade or so we have seen the likes of the English Defence League (EDL)/Britain First, Black Lives Matter (BLM), Gilets Jaunes (Yellow Vesters), Extinction Rebellion (XR) to name but a few, and most of those 'movements' now barely seem to get the intense media attention they received during their respective heydays.
Only because Coronavirus has pushed them off the front pages.
Definitely. In the 80s during the Thatcher era there was a concerted effort to massage the runaway employment figures by putting people onto sickness benefits which of course led to its own problems in years to come. My father, then made redundant at 64, went for his usual check-up with his GP and he told him he'd been made redundant. To which the doctor replied "I'll sign you off sick, the money's better and you won't have to queue up to sign on every two weeks either". I still remember my father coming home and telling us that with quite a smile on his face!
Later of course we had 'New' Labour tackling the sickness benefits mess in a way that led to the disabled chaining themselves to railings. Was that before Blair got God? Can't remember but I remember the distress and upset it caused my late wife, who was indeed disabled - there were many sleepless nights for both of us as I tried to comfort her at her most distressed. I learned from experience to hate 'New' Labour even more than I hated the Tories.I'm so sorry to hear that you lost your wife Pamplemousse. Reading that struck a chord with me as my own wife is beset with health problems and is being shielded upstairs. Look after yourself mate.
Pamplemousse
17-05-20, 13:32
I'm so sorry to hear that you lost your wife Pamplemousse. Reading that struck a chord with me as my own wife is beset with health problems and is being shielded upstairs. Look after yourself mate.
Thank you. It was ten years ago now, but it has defined me; at no point is she ever out of my thoughts.
Likewise, you look after your wife and yourself too.
https://windowsontheworld.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/police-state1.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH5rYlufWJU
MyNameIsTerry
17-05-20, 18:08
https://windowsontheworld.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/police-state1.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH5rYlufWJU
:yesyes:
Pity Boris never got his water cannons...two birds with one stone, arrest and a wash :biggrin:
MyNameIsTerry
17-05-20, 18:10
I suppose our current government could be "of the people" if your "people" just happened to have attended a public school and went up to Oxford... ;)
Sounds like MPs from all parties to me. :winks:
MyNameIsTerry
17-05-20, 18:13
As a lover of the English language in all its majesty, I'm more angry at the use of that ugly word 'uptick' :mad: - what's wrong with the perfectly acceptable 'increase'? :D
I blame the BBC for adopting that one...
I'm trying to be 'down with the cool kids'. I loathe the trending buzzword stuff too. I'm fine with cockwomble though, I get all immature and giggle :biggrin:
MyNameIsTerry
17-05-20, 18:15
Only because Coronavirus has pushed them off the front pages.
Yeah, XR must be sulking. The rug has been pulled from under them for some time :roflmao: I'm sure the middle classes will find something else to occupy their time though :winks:
MyNameIsTerry
17-05-20, 18:19
Definitely. In the 80s during the Thatcher era there was a concerted effort to massage the runaway employment figures by putting people onto sickness benefits which of course led to its own problems in years to come. My father, then made redundant at 64, went for his usual check-up with his GP and he told him he'd been made redundant. To which the doctor replied "I'll sign you off sick, the money's better and you won't have to queue up to sign on every two weeks either". I still remember my father coming home and telling us that with quite a smile on his face!
Later of course we had 'New' Labour tackling the sickness benefits mess in a way that led to the disabled chaining themselves to railings. Was that before Blair got God? Can't remember but I remember the distress and upset it caused my late wife, who was indeed disabled - there were many sleepless nights for both of us as I tried to comfort her at her most distressed. I learned from experience to hate 'New' Labour even more than I hated the Tories.
No, I think you mean when Tony realised he was God :winks:
Massaging the figures was just so blatant they only fooled their own people with it. But this does give me an idea...lets reclassify the diagnosed onto a new list of Virus Seekers :yesyes:
I'm a big fan of buzzwords too Terry. Knowing that we can move forward in these unprecedented times. But best of all I love making statements but with my voice rising at the end of the sentence, so it sounds like a question?
And what's with all this blank space on the right hand side folks, or is it my laptop playing up?
MyNameIsTerry
17-05-20, 18:34
And what's with all this blank space on the right hand side folks, or is it my laptop playing up?
Alex is playing around with a sidebar showing the threads with latest posts. I can see it on mine using Edge.
MyNameIsTerry
17-05-20, 18:38
I'm a big fan of buzzwords too Terry. Knowing that we can move forward in these unprecedented times. But best of all I love making statements but with my voice rising at the end of the sentence, so it sounds like a question?
Unprecedented reminds me of the use of 'since records began' some years :biggrin:
Will all that inflection you might start getting doors opened for you and caps doffed, m'lord :biggrin:
And what's with all this blank space on the right hand side folks, or is it my laptop playing up?
Just another change to process in these strangest of times? Innit?
MyNameIsTerry
17-05-20, 21:57
https://www.lbcnews.co.uk/uk-news/police-break-up-70-person-rave-amid-lockdown/
The locals must have heard all the cries of 'Coviiiiiiiiidddddd' https://yoursmiles.org/msmile/music/m0827.gif
https://windowsontheworld.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/police-state1.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH5rYlufWJU
So predictable :lac:
Pamplemousse
17-05-20, 23:43
I'm fine with cockwomble though, I get all immature and giggle :biggrin:
:roflmao:
But best of all I love making statements but with my voice rising at the end of the sentence, so it sounds like a question?
LOL When I went to the UK, this was the thing that got me the most. Are they asking me a question or telling me something?
WiseMonkey
18-05-20, 03:03
So predictable :lac:
You'd never see this in NZ, people know how to do the right thing for the good of the community in a crisis like this ... that crowd is out of control, spreading the virus around and they don't care, as the guy with the placard said, "we need to follow our American cousins who are leading the way!" :WTF: That's going to get the UK a long way! NOT :doh:
*ps Zero new cases today in NZ *
This quote by CDC Director Anthony Fauci is from Newsweek a couple of days ago in regard to the NIH testing Hydroxychloroquine:
"We urgently need a safe and effective treatment for COVID-19," Fauci said in a statement. "Repurposing existing drugs is an attractive option because these medications have undergone extensive testing, allowing them to move quickly into clinical trials and accelerating their potential approval for COVID-19 treatment.
"Although there is anecdotal evidence that hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin may benefit people with COVID-19, we need solid data from a large randomized, controlled clinical trial to determine whether this experimental treatment is safe and can improve clinical outcomes," added Fauci.
Hopefully they'll help people.
Wisemonkey,
Respectfully, how can you compare a country with only a few million people to one with almost 70 million people? Or in the case of my country 340 million? I mean I live in a pretty small state and we have more people than your entire country. It's apples and oranges...or should I say apples and kiwis?
WiseMonkey
18-05-20, 05:23
Thank you for being respectful :). IMO mixed messages from the govts is at the root of lockdown failures in many countries. Theoretically larger populations mean more resources, more feet on the ground, more hospitals, more testing, more contact tracing etc. What's obvious is that the UK and US have deep divides within the populace which is manifesting in anger and sometimes violence (due to people's perceptions of how wrongly they've been treated). Governments vying for popularity and all that comes with it, at the expense of the peoples well being. (I've mentioned this before).
I acknowledge that having many states (or UK having more countries within one) requires more organisation and this is where cooperation comes in. As you know having states at odds with one another leads to lots of mixed messages that creates confusion among the people. Australia has six states but managed to get their act together quickly.
We were watching a programme on TV about Central Park in New York where 2,000 wardens had been employed to remind people to keep 2 metres distance from one another. I found this extraordinary as surely people know this, it's been a constant reminder on TV everyday for 6 weeks straight. Surely people want to keep safe and keep others safe also. To us (NZer's) it just makes sense to do the right thing and think of others as well.
I believe that NZers and (Aust) are generally happier with their lot in life, maybe more laid back and community orientated, maybe it's the lifestyle and sunshine. Maybe it's is because we are ex-colonial countries and have had to do the hard yards and break in relatively 'new' lands so we're innovative and practical minded people and generally cooperative.
This isn't a big talk-up of NZ, it's that often we look overseas and can't believe what we see and hear, it's just so different from our reality.
I will say that when I arrived in NZ from England in 1964, as a child, I thought I'd arrived in paradise, the colours were so vibrant, the greenery, the mountains and beaches. I've been back to the UK once in 2014 and had a great time catching up with my reles and I loved the Scottish Highlands. However, it was great to be back home :)
MyNameIsTerry
18-05-20, 05:59
I would be wary of judging the mood based on protests in London. They seem to have a lot of protest types down there. You hear less about them elsewhere unless they have a specific goal e.g. Scottish independence.
Just more 'anti' types. Being arrested will be a badge of honour.
I'm trying to be 'down with the cool kids'. I loathe the trending buzzword stuff too. I'm fine with cockwomble though, I get all immature and giggle :biggrin:
5054
:D
Thank you for being respectful :). IMO mixed messages from the govts is at the root of lockdown failures in many countries. Theoretically larger populations mean more resources, more feet on the ground, more hospitals, more testing, more contact tracing etc. What's obvious is that the UK and US have deep divides within the populace which is manifesting in anger and sometimes violence (due to people's perceptions of how wrongly they've been treated). Governments vying for popularity and all that comes with it, at the expense of the peoples well being. (I've mentioned this before).
I acknowledge that having many states (or UK having more countries within one) requires more organisation and this is where cooperation comes in. As you know having states at odds with one another leads to lots of mixed messages that creates confusion among the people. Australia has six states but managed to get their act together quickly.
We were watching a programme on TV about Central Park in New York where 2,000 wardens had been employed to remind people to keep 2 metres distance from one another. I found this extraordinary as surely people know this, it's been a constant reminder on TV everyday for 6 weeks straight. Surely people want to keep safe and keep others safe also. To us (NZer's) it just makes sense to do the right thing and think of others as well.
I believe that NZers and (Aust) are generally happier with their lot in life, maybe more laid back and community orientated, maybe it's the lifestyle and sunshine. Maybe it's is because we are ex-colonial countries and have had to do the hard yards and break in relatively 'new' lands so we're innovative and practical minded people and generally cooperative.
This isn't a big talk-up of NZ, it's that often we look overseas and can't believe what we see and hear, it's just so different from our reality.
I will say that when I arrived in NZ from England in 1964, as a child, I thought I'd arrived in paradise, the colours were so vibrant, the greenery, the mountains and beaches. I've been back to the UK once in 2014 and had a great time catching up with my reles and I loved the Scottish Highlands. However, it was great to be back home :)
Ok this is just one state out of 50. Just so you don't think every place in the US is Calcutta. Enjoy.
https://www.facebook.com/punjabkesaribethere/videos/explore-natural-beauty-of-colorado-united-states/721657171695833/
I would be wary of judging the mood based on protests in London. They seem to have a lot of protest types down there. You hear less about them elsewhere unless they have a specific goal e.g. Scottish independence.
Just more 'anti' types. Being arrested will be a badge of honour.
Exactly Terry.
If it wasn't for this CV pandemic, those protesters would probably be Extinction Rebellion (XR), anti-Brexiteers, anti-Remainers, or just the usual morons out for their ritual 'ruck' in Central London.
I would be wary of judging the mood based on protests in London. They seem to have a lot of protest types down there. You hear less about them elsewhere unless they have a specific goal e.g. Scottish independence.
Just more 'anti' types. Being arrested will be a badge of honour.
I agree.
There are idiots everywhere. There are also fabulous people everywhere.
I agree.
There are idiots everywhere. There are also fabulous people everywhere.
Absolutely.
I bet had that protest in London instead happened elsewhere in England it probably wouldn't have had the same amount of national publicity, especially as our media seem to be so London-centric these days.
Not specifically having a bash at Londoners BTW.
Pamplemousse
18-05-20, 16:14
Absolutely.
I bet had that protest in London instead happened elsewhere in England it probably wouldn't have had the same amount of national publicity, especially as our media seem to be so London-centric these days.
Not specifically having a bash at Londoners BTW.
London was the largest gathering. Most other places in the UK barely attracted a dozen people.
GERMANY’S DAS BILD SAYS ‘LOCKDOWN WAS A HUGE MISTAKE’
Europe’s best-selling newspaper has announced that the lockdown was a “huge mistake,” citing a number of public intellectuals.
https://www.bild.de/bild-plus/politik/inland/politik-inland/lockdown-war-ein-riesen-fehler-wissenschaftler-kritisieren-corona-massnahmen-70517342,view=conversionToLogin.bild.html
Prof. Klaus Püschel, a respected pathologist and head of the Institute of Forensic Medicine at Hamburg University Hospital, argues that “in the end, COVID-19 is a viral disease like the flu, which in most cases is harmless and is only fatal in exceptional cases.
“It is important to look at the aftermath of the epidemic to see if COVID-19 really was the cause of death,” Püschel observes. “Of the approximately 180 deceased with coronavirus that we have now examined, all suffered from severe pre-existing conditions and were not children or adolescents. The COVID-19 infection was the straw that broke the camel’s back.”
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XVcJgkuohbA/XsDupleFdcI/AAAAAAAAwwI/Sw-gWRwwqDYdnCn_1MM0Q3JIQXIPfaa9wCLcBGAsYHQ/s320/corona%2Bgates%2Bsturgeon.jpg
London was the largest gathering. Most other places in the UK barely attracted a dozen people.
Perhaps (in the latter case) that's a good thing then. As far as I am concerned, the former event to me is just another 'incident' in London, which pales in comparison to a lot of the epic protests, strikes and disturbances that happened pretty much all over the country back in the 70s, 80s and even the 90s. Such events seem to have become less meaningful over the past decade or two IMO.
So predictable :lac:
The cops never seem to social distance or wear masks, not sure if that's because pigs are immune to covid-19 :roflmao:
GERMANY’S DAS BILD SAYS ‘LOCKDOWN WAS A HUGE MISTAKE’
Europe’s best-selling newspaper has announced that the lockdown was a “huge mistake,” citing a number of public intellectuals.
https://www.bild.de/bild-plus/politik/inland/politik-inland/lockdown-war-ein-riesen-fehler-wissenschaftler-kritisieren-corona-massnahmen-70517342,view=conversionToLogin.bild.html
Prof. Klaus Püschel, a respected pathologist and head of the Institute of Forensic Medicine at Hamburg University Hospital, argues that “in the end, COVID-19 is a viral disease like the flu, which in most cases is harmless and is only fatal in exceptional cases.
“It is important to look at the aftermath of the epidemic to see if COVID-19 really was the cause of death,” Püschel observes. “Of the approximately 180 deceased with coronavirus that we have now examined, all suffered from severe pre-existing conditions and were not children or adolescents. The COVID-19 infection was the straw that broke the camel’s back.”
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XVcJgkuohbA/XsDupleFdcI/AAAAAAAAwwI/Sw-gWRwwqDYdnCn_1MM0Q3JIQXIPfaa9wCLcBGAsYHQ/s320/corona%2Bgates%2Bsturgeon.jpg
Oh ah!!
GERMANY’S DAS BILD SAYS ‘LOCKDOWN WAS A HUGE MISTAKE’
Europe’s best-selling newspaper has announced that the lockdown was a “huge mistake,” citing a number of public intellectuals.
https://www.bild.de/bild-plus/politik/inland/politik-inland/lockdown-war-ein-riesen-fehler-wissenschaftler-kritisieren-corona-massnahmen-70517342,view=conversionToLogin.bild.html
Prof. Klaus Püschel, a respected pathologist and head of the Institute of Forensic Medicine at Hamburg University Hospital, argues that “in the end, COVID-19 is a viral disease like the flu, which in most cases is harmless and is only fatal in exceptional cases.
“It is important to look at the aftermath of the epidemic to see if COVID-19 really was the cause of death,” Püschel observes. “Of the approximately 180 deceased with coronavirus that we have now examined, all suffered from severe pre-existing conditions and were not children or adolescents. The COVID-19 infection was the straw that broke the camel’s back.”
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XVcJgkuohbA/XsDupleFdcI/AAAAAAAAwwI/Sw-gWRwwqDYdnCn_1MM0Q3JIQXIPfaa9wCLcBGAsYHQ/s320/corona%2Bgates%2Bsturgeon.jpg
So now you’re saying coronavirus does actually exist? Well done.
The cops never seem to social distance or wear masks, not sure if that's because pigs are immune to covid-19 :roflmao:
Of course, dear boy. How could the police do their job and "social distance"? Try arresting someone from 2 metres away. Just as ridiculous as social distancing any other time, unless you have the crap scared out of you by govts and media, and truly believe this virus poses an existential threat to mankind. Furthermore, no virus or infection can leap from person to person without bodily contact or direct exchange of bodily fluids/particulates - eg sneezing or coughing in one's face (like regular flu).
So the premise you begin with will dictate your paradigm and conclusions you reach. Arguing about all this becomes a circular and futile discussion otherwise.
GERMANY’S DAS BILD SAYS ‘LOCKDOWN WAS A HUGE MISTAKE’
Europe’s best-selling newspaper has announced that the lockdown was a “huge mistake,” citing a number of public intellectuals.
https://www.bild.de/bild-plus/politik/inland/politik-inland/lockdown-war-ein-riesen-fehler-wissenschaftler-kritisieren-corona-massnahmen-70517342,view=conversionToLogin.bild.html
Prof. Klaus Püschel, a respected pathologist and head of the Institute of Forensic Medicine at Hamburg University Hospital, argues that “in the end, COVID-19 is a viral disease like the flu, which in most cases is harmless and is only fatal in exceptional cases.
“It is important to look at the aftermath of the epidemic to see if COVID-19 really was the cause of death,” Püschel observes. “Of the approximately 180 deceased with coronavirus that we have now examined, all suffered from severe pre-existing conditions and were not children or adolescents. The COVID-19 infection was the straw that broke the camel’s back.”
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XVcJgkuohbA/XsDupleFdcI/AAAAAAAAwwI/Sw-gWRwwqDYdnCn_1MM0Q3JIQXIPfaa9wCLcBGAsYHQ/s320/corona%2Bgates%2Bsturgeon.jpg
Good God! Even "experts" are saying CV is no deadlier than the regular flu!
Changing the record a bit.
Today's new confirmed cases: 2,684.
Today's deaths: 160.
Both the lowest for quite a few weeks now, despite yesterday being Sunday.
MyNameIsTerry
18-05-20, 18:26
So now you’re saying coronavirus does actually exist? Well done.
Citing a handful of experts. Don't we always have differing opinions from experts? Climate change being an example.
I wonder if they asked those experts if any action should be taken at all? Some of them even mention other action. So experts that don't conform to Hollow's hoax, 5G and 'psychological warfare'.
I would be wary of judging the mood based on protests in London. They seem to have a lot of protest types down there. You hear less about them elsewhere unless they have a specific goal e.g. Scottish independence.
Just more 'anti' types. Being arrested will be a badge of honour.Agreed Terry. Here in rural Northamptonshire, where we sit on tractors and chew on bits of grass, London could be a million miles away rather than just 70. We don't understand those city slickers, we're simple folk, country bumpkins.
There was a “protest” in Glasgow on Saturday that consisted of a group of shouty idiots giving us such gems as “the cure is in old recipe irn bru” and generally just being loud about things that they clearly know nothing about. The police were literally standing laughing at them.
MyNameIsTerry
18-05-20, 21:23
Agreed Terry. Here in rural Northamptonshire, where we sit on tractors and chew on bits of grass, London could be a million miles away rather than just 70. We don't understand those city slickers, we're simple folk, country bumpkins.
Same here, fishman. Im in the Midlands which is up north to many in London. We wear flat caps, carry a pig under our arms and eat hotpots. :biggrin: (apologies to all the normal Londoners down there, we know it's only some who make you look bad just as some of our lot do).
We don't do much protesting since who would care or even know? The media only care about London. So many of us will be rolling our eyes at yet another bunch of numpties protesting in the capital.
MyNameIsTerry
18-05-20, 21:25
There was a “protest” in Glasgow on Saturday that consisted of a group of shouty idiots giving us such gems as “the cure is in old recipe irn bru” and generally just being loud about things that they clearly know nothing about. The police were literally standing laughing at them.
Were they mixed in with Saltires and freedom banners? :winks:
Maybe the iron bru chanters were false flags? Maybe someone will post us a link about them? :whistles:
MyNameIsTerry
18-05-20, 21:27
5054
:D
:roflmao:
Sounds like we need to update the dictionary putting politicians and celebs next to this entry :yesyes:
Same here, fishman. Im in the Midlands which is up north to many in London. We wear flat caps, carry a pig under our arms and eat hotpots. :biggrin: (apologies to all the normal Londoners down there, we know it's only some who make you look bad just as some of our lot do).
We don't do much protesting since who would care or even know? The media only care about London. So many of us will be rolling our eyes at yet another bunch of numpties protesting in the capital.
Terry - I'm a from the same neck of the Midlands woods - my dad did wear a flat cap and he did like his black pudding and pork scratching although I never remember us keeping pigs ...
Agree with you about London numpties though ... I've no time for them - mostly a tiny minority of left-wing, 'politically correct' ass@@@es with too much time on their hands who think that because they inhabit this cesspit of a capital that the sun shines out of their proverbial... I'm always glad to get back to the Midlands and deal with straight-talking, no-nonsense folk! The BBC never strays from its little metropolitan bubble for news stories.... in fact the rest of the country is another planet to them.
WiseMonkey
19-05-20, 02:48
Good God! Even "experts" are saying CV is no deadlier than the regular flu!
What a load of conspiratorial bullswool! So that's why (your country UK) has close on 35,000 deaths in two months (likely 50,000 before the end of June) because it's just 'the flu'!!
ps. Zero new cases in NZ again today :)
MyNameIsTerry
19-05-20, 04:34
What a load of conspiratorial bullswool! So that's why (your country UK) has close on 35,000 deaths in two months (likely 50,000 before the end of June) because it's just 'the flu'!!
ps. Zero new cases in NZ again today :)
My recollection is that experts have said it's another flu. They have recognised it's higher mortality rate and greater ability to spread but I think they were trying to inject some reality into the media circus that was making it out to be the next plague.
:roflmao:
Sounds like we need to update the dictionary putting politicians and celebs next to this entry :yesyes:
Yep I agree :D
London was the largest gathering. Most other places in the UK barely attracted a dozen people.
Perhaps because London has the higher population?
What a load of conspiratorial bullswool! So that's why (your country UK) has close on 35,000 deaths in two months (likely 50,000 before the end of June) because it's just 'the flu'!!
ps. Zero new cases in NZ again today :)
Please stop comparing my country to yours. It’s tragic enough.
It’s also a different country, every country is different. Yes your country is wonderful. So is mine.
You can't compare NZ with the UK..Completely different set of circumstances/population spread/logistics.
I'm glad I'm living in the UK too. We're going through dark times but this isn't a competition.
Right with you on this one, Pulisa. WiseMonkey, I have nothing but respect for you but it does sound as though you're gloating.
That said, I don't have much time for tribalism within the UK, either. I've lived for prolonged periods in Luton, London, Durham and Coventry, and while I've never been comfortable about Luton's racism problem or student snobbery in Durham, the vast majority of people are just people wherever you go.
Life's short and we need to look out for one another, no matter where we live.
WiseMonkey
19-05-20, 09:22
Right with you on this one, Pulisa. WiseMonkey, I have nothing but respect for you but it does sound as though you're gloating.
That said, I don't have much time for tribalism within the UK, either. I've lived for prolonged periods in Luton, London, Durham and Coventry, and while I've never been comfortable about Luton's racism problem or student snobbery in Durham, the vast majority of people are just people wherever you go.
Life's short and we need to look out for one another, no matter where we live.
Actually, I used the UK as an example because I was replying to KK's post (so nothing personal against you or UK), I could have used France, Germany, Spain (if she'd/he'd have come from there). Plus my relatives live in UK and I was born there and my grandfather lived in Luton.
In regards to gloating (which I actually wasn't doing), but come to think of it, why not? Little 'ol NZ has done what other countries with the same population haven't done. Many on here have said that NZ has done a great job and has been a shining example, but I haven't talked it up. But we are not out of the woods (to use a platitude) and are still very serious with our social distancing and hygiene and health officials have ramped up testing to look for signs of community spread. So far about 0.6 of our population have been tested.
I went into a haberdashery shop yesterday and had to wait my turn to enter, then write my name and contact details in their log book then use han-san so quite a procedure but there is a requirement for it.
In giving details of what we do here in NZ, I'm sharing info and hopefully it might helps others. This is not meant to be condescending in any way, just a practical approach :)
I honestly wish people would stop comparing this virus to the flu. Ignoring the basic differences in infectiousness and mortality rates, the most important difference is that we have vaccinations and treatments for the flu. We know how it spreads, we know it is seasonal and our health systems are familiar with the numbers expected and how best to deal with them.
Covid-19 was an unknown entity until January this year. There are no treatments, no vaccines and, unfortunately, healthcare systems worldwide had no idea how far this was going to go. Comparing an unknown novel virus to one that has been in human population for as long as records were available is utterly ridiculous.
WiseMonkey
19-05-20, 09:44
I honestly wish people would stop comparing this virus to the flu. Ignoring the basic differences in infectiousness and mortality rates, the most important difference is that we have vaccinations and treatments for the flu. We know how it spreads, we know it is seasonal and our health systems are familiar with the numbers expected and how best to deal with them.
Covid-19 was an unknown entity until January this year. There are no treatments, no vaccines and, unfortunately, healthcare systems worldwide had no idea how far this was going to go. Comparing an unknown novel virus to one that has been in human population for as long as records were available is utterly ridiculous.
I totally agree, it's a pandemic not the ordinary 'flu. Many people are reading and buying into many conspiracy theories abound in the media, it's a form of denial.
Actually, I used the UK as an example because I was replying to KK's post (so nothing personal against you or UK), I could have used France, Germany, Spain (if she'd/he'd have come from there). Plus my relatives live in UK and I was born there and my grandfather lived in Luton.
In regards to gloating (which I actually wasn't doing), but come to think of it, why not? Little 'ol NZ has done what other countries with the same population haven't done. Many on here have said that NZ has done a great job and has been a shining example, but I haven't talked it up. But we are not out of the woods (to use a platitude) and are still very serious with our social distancing and hygiene and health officials have ramped up testing to look for signs of community spread. So far about 0.6 of our population have been tested.
I went into a haberdashery shop yesterday and had to wait my turn to enter, then write my name and contact details in their log book then use han-san so quite a procedure but there is a requirement for it.
In giving details of what we do here in NZ, I'm sharing info and hopefully it might helps others. This is not meant to be condescending in any way, just a practical approach :)
Again with respect because I really enjoy your posts. I certainly would not gloat if our situations were reversed.
Your government have done a brilliant job and it has been enforced well. Would it have worked in other countries? Who knows. We won’t know until someone has had the time to research it one day.
What a load of conspiratorial bullswool! So that's why (your country UK) has close on 35,000 deaths in two months (likely 50,000 before the end of June) because it's just 'the flu'!!
ps. Zero new cases in NZ again today :)
Everything is "conspiratorial bull" to you if it deviates from the official line. Doesn't appear to matter if it's a scientist, doctor, politician etc - your brain becomes little more than a lump of concrete.
And the constant comparison of NZ, which has a tiny population of barely 5m, to countries like the UK (66m) is quite frankly absurd and crass. It comes across as an exercise in national pride above all else.
You might be a monkey but I don't see any signs of "wisdom" I'm afraid :lac:
I honestly wish people would stop comparing this virus to the flu. Ignoring the basic differences in infectiousness and mortality rates, the most important difference is that we have vaccinations and treatments for the flu. We know how it spreads, we know it is seasonal and our health systems are familiar with the numbers expected and how best to deal with them.
Covid-19 was an unknown entity until January this year. There are no treatments, no vaccines and, unfortunately, healthcare systems worldwide had no idea how far this was going to go. Comparing an unknown novel virus to one that has been in human population for as long as records were available is utterly ridiculous.Thank you for saying what I was thinking.
I would much rather believe this is no worse than the flu because it would be easier on the mind but as long as I keep seeing statistical data that tells me it's worse than the flu I will be treating it as such.
I mean no disrespect to anyone who believes otherwise Obviously, as with everything else, everyone's entitled to their own views on things but I really do hope people will err on the side of caution with this and remember that there are still so many things we don't know about it.
I have seen so many stories where people who were previous skeptics about this have been exposed and now theyre speaking out and telling people to take this seriously.
Praying that we learn all we need to know about it and SOON Stay safe everyone! [emoji40]
Sent from my moto e6 (XT2005DL) using Tapatalk
Everything is "conspiratorial bull" to you if it deviates from the official line.
I’ll let the poster you were responding to answer the rest, but I’m curious to know, what is this “official line” that you speak of?
WiseMonkey
19-05-20, 13:09
I’ll let the poster you were responding to answer the rest, but I’m curious to know, what is this “official line” that you speak of?
Good question, it could be anything that deviates from the 'official' line each govt takes, (depending on where you live), because govts have differing 'official lines. Clarification would be interesting though, especially for those of us who are not so wise :shades:
I’ll let the poster you were responding to answer the rest, but I’m curious to know, what is this “official line” that you speak of?
You know exactly what the "official line" or narrative of COVID-19 is and why I disagree. So let's not play games, Gary.
You can read back my old posts if your memory is a bit fuzzy today...
You know exactly what the "official line" or narrative of COVID-19 is and why I disagree. So let's not play games, Gary.
You can read back my old posts if your memory is a bit fuzzy today...
Or you could just answer a perfectly reasonable question. I’m aware that you feel that the death tolls are inaccurate and I actually agree with that, but other than that I don’t know what you mean when you say “official line”.
Nobody is playing a game either, I’m genuinely interested in what you think the “official line” is.
WiseMonkey
19-05-20, 13:33
Or you could just answer a perfectly reasonable question. I’m aware that you feel that the death tolls are inaccurate and I actually agree with that, but other than that I don’t know what you mean when you say “official line”.
Nobody is playing a game either, I’m genuinely interested in what you think the “official line” is.
People who accuse others of 'playing games' and expecting then to intuit what they are thinking, are the ones playing games. It's a method of deflecting off them and onto you so they don't have to answer the question, Trump does it all the time.
Actually, I used the UK as an example because I was replying to KK's post (so nothing personal against you or UK), I could have used France, Germany, Spain (if she'd/he'd have come from there). Plus my relatives live in UK and I was born there and my grandfather lived in Luton.
In regards to gloating (which I actually wasn't doing), but come to think of it, why not? Little 'ol NZ has done what other countries with the same population haven't done. Many on here have said that NZ has done a great job and has been a shining example, but I haven't talked it up. But we are not out of the woods (to use a platitude) and are still very serious with our social distancing and hygiene and health officials have ramped up testing to look for signs of community spread. So far about 0.6 of our population have been tested.
I went into a haberdashery shop yesterday and had to wait my turn to enter, then write my name and contact details in their log book then use han-san so quite a procedure but there is a requirement for it.
In giving details of what we do here in NZ, I'm sharing info and hopefully it might helps others. This is not meant to be condescending in any way, just a practical approach :)
You go for it WM:yesyes:the last thing I thought of was It isn’t a competition be proud of what NZ is doing in response with this terrible virus.Keep posting as it doesn’t upset me.:D
As far as gloating goes, there was a short segment on sky news the other day about bars in Australia opening up and a video of a guy buying a pint, taking a sip and clearly enjoying it.
I’m not kidding when I say I felt like jumping through the screen and choking him. I guess that says more about me and alcohol than it does Australians gloating, though.
People who accuse others of 'playing games' and expecting then to intuit what they are thinking, are the ones playing games. It's a method of deflecting off them and onto you so they don't have to answer the question, Trump does it all the time.
And you would know, Dear Monkey :D
Or you could just answer a perfectly reasonable question. I’m aware that you feel that the death tolls are inaccurate and I actually agree with that, but other than that I don’t know what you mean when you say “official line”.
Nobody is playing a game either, I’m genuinely interested in what you think the “official line” is.
If you believe the lockdowns - suspending people's rights to movement, gathering, protests, free speech (which has been seriously eroded and curtailed since this all began) - and social distancing etc, are justified because of COVID-19 then you are observing and accepting the "official line" - ie the version of events govts and other affiliated institutions like the WHO have expounded and propagated.
The official narrative is directly and indirectly telling people that all these changes are necessary because of the existential threat posed by this virus. Indeed if it wasn't existential no one in their right minds would allow such freedoms to be taken away from them (along with the bribery of sitting at home while earning 80% salary).
I’m genuinely happy for people who are coming out of it well. I’m also genuinely sad for countries that aren’t. I remember thinking that the UK would never have it as bad as other countries because we’re a really clever and resourceful country, but I was wrong and I still can’t quite believe it. It’s a horrible situation to be in.
WiseMonkey
19-05-20, 13:54
You go for it WM:yesyes:the last thing I thought of was It isn’t a competition be proud of what NZ is doing in response with this terrible virus.Keep posting as it doesn’t upset me.:D
Thanks Ms L and you're right, it's certainly no competition, it makes me feel really stressed when I think about my cousins in the UK, two of them are front line nurses. Of course I'm proud of what our govt. and our people have done in response to this pandemic. Australia is doing well too, take care :hugs:
I think this thread is at risk of closure.
Pamplemousse
19-05-20, 13:57
I’m genuinely happy for people who are coming out of it well. I’m also genuinely sad for countries that aren’t. I remember thinking that the UK would never have it as bad as other countries because we’re a really clever and resourceful country, but I was wrong and I still can’t quite believe it. It’s a horrible situation to be in.
Fully agree. I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the role of the Prime Minister's adviser, Dominic Cummings, in all this. A friend of mine, whom I previously thought a considerate individual, is now railing against the lockdown because he seems to view it as a terrible inconvenience to him that he can't do what he wants to do, when he wants to do it. It's not like he is desperate for a return to work - he's retired and getting a good pension. He frequently quotes Sumption's pronouncements on the matter. Yet he's in the same health situation as me (minus the anxiety and depression) and seems not to care a jot. My own view - perhaps coloured by my own mental issues, who knows? - is that if I get this, I've got a one-way ticket to the cemetery. Oddly enough, I'm not too keen on that.
WiseMonkey
19-05-20, 14:06
As far as gloating goes, there was a short segment on sky news the other day about bars in Australia opening up and a video of a guy buying a pint, taking a sip and clearly enjoying it.
I’m not kidding when I say I felt like jumping through the screen and choking him. I guess that says more about me and alcohol than it does Australians gloating, though.
Yep the Aussies are doing quite well although there are some new clusters developing! We can't go into a bar for a drink yet (if that's what people like). It's just as pleasant having a quiet drink with your partner or friend on the deck or in the garden especially if it's warm and sunny and the home made pizza goes down a treat too. :)
If you believe the lockdowns - suspending people's rights to movement, gathering, protests, free speech (which has been seriously eroded and curtailed since this all began) - and social distancing etc, are justified because of COVID-19 then you are observing and accepting the "official line" - ie the version of events govts and other affiliated institutions like the WHO have expounded and propagated.
The official narrative is directly and indirectly telling people that all these changes are necessary because of the existential threat posed by this virus. Indeed if it wasn't existential no one in their right minds would allow such freedoms to be taken away from them (along with the bribery of sitting at home while earning 80% salary).
So long story short, you don’t think this virus is a threat and it’s being exaggerated for reasons unknown? That about it?
It's just as pleasant having a quiet drink with your partner or friend on the deck or in the garden especially if it's warm and sunny and the home made pizza goes down a treat too. :)
Nice for you perhaps, but many people in the UK live in flats where they are forced to share lifts with strangers unless they walk up 10 flights of stairs. I live in a flat myself and it's impossible to social distance while passing someone on the stairs. My point is that people are under incredible stress living in densely populated areas where social distancing is impossible in most cases. Also imagine someone locked in a flat 24/7, with no garden or "deck" to sit and enjoy a "pizza" :lac:
You appear to live in a very idealistic bubble, Monkey, and show little understanding of the impact this whole lockdown and its inhumane measures has had on ordinary (esp impoverished) people.
As far as gloating goes, there was a short segment on sky news the other day about bars in Australia opening up and a video of a guy buying a pint, taking a sip and clearly enjoying it.
I’m not kidding when I say I felt like jumping through the screen and choking him. I guess that says more about me and alcohol than it does Australians gloating, though.
:roflmao:We call them schooners over here,nice cold schooner you can’t beat it on a beautiful sunny warm day.
From on Aussie gloater :winks:
and I don’t even drink:D:doh:
:roflmao:We call them schooners over here,nice cold schooner you can’t beat it on a beautiful sunny warm day.
From on Aussie gloater :winks:
So not only do you enjoy cold beer, you also have such things as “warm sunny days”?
You’re just taking the p*ss now
WiseMonkey
19-05-20, 14:27
If you believe the lockdowns - suspending people's rights to movement, gathering, protests, free speech (which has been seriously eroded and curtailed since this all began) - and social distancing etc, are justified because of COVID-19 then you are observing and accepting the "official line" - ie the version of events govts and other affiliated institutions like the WHO have expounded and propagated.
The official narrative is directly and indirectly telling people that all these changes are necessary because of the existential threat posed by this virus. Indeed if it wasn't existential no one in their right minds would allow such freedoms to be taken away from them (along with the bribery of sitting at home while earning 80% salary).
If you have to (or choose to) temporarily suspend some of your personal rights so that the lives of many vulnerable and/or elderly citizens can be saved then that's a good thing to do. It's a caring, empathetic approach that goes beyond self to others. It's simple and doesn't have to have an underlying agenda to it.
And guess what, sometimes it actually works.
I think that this is where this whole "we're in it together" concept falls down because many people here are under enormous pressure and can't"enjoy" the "benefits" of lockdown advocated by those more fortunate and less burdened by overwhelming stressors. We can't all learn a new language/exercise with the stars/bake sourdough bread..For some of us it's a gruelling nightmare dealing with issues way beyond our capability because there is no other option and we just have to keep going.
So not only do you enjoy cold beer, you also have such things as “warm sunny days”?
You’re just taking the p*ss now
Yep siree lying in my king size bed enjoying my extra money from the gov,which I’m gunna spend on another tatt.:D
taking the p.iss lol.23c it’s 11.30 pm nice and cool :yesyes:
23c
In Scotland that temperature is an urban myth. You call it “nice and cool”, I’d call that the surface of the sun.
:roflmao:Ima gunna gloat we have our issues like everywhere but wouldn’t live anywhere else apart from NZ :yesyes:
You would love it here no bloody cold rainy days and old relics:winks:
In Scotland that temperature is an urban myth. You call it “nice and cool”, I’d call that the surface of the sun.
It's 21c over here, I've got the fan on and I'm trying to avoid leaving the house until some kind person switches the sun off.
Pamplemousse
19-05-20, 14:46
So not only do you enjoy cold beer, you also have such things as “warm sunny days”?
Ahhh, cold 'beer' is invariably flavourless pish anyway. Proper beer is served at about 10 degrees C.
:roflmao:Ima gunna gloat we have our issues like everywhere but wouldn’t live anywhere else apart from NZ :yesyes:
You would love it here no bloody cold rainy days and old relics:winks:
I have relatives in Sydney and I almost went to live there myself back in 2006. I changed my mind at the last minute due to being, and I quote this from my aunt who lives there, “a total fu*king p*ssy.”
Aside from that she’s lovely.
Ahhh, cold 'beer' is invariably flavourless pish anyway. Proper beer is served at about 10 degrees C.
I try, honest I do, to enjoy real ales and beers but it just doesn’t happen. I’m from the lager generation I’m afraid.
WiseMonkey
19-05-20, 14:51
In Scotland that temperature is an urban myth. You call it “nice and cool”, I’d call that the surface of the sun.
We were in Scotland in Set/Oct 2014 and stayed in Newtonmore near Loch Laggan. It was warm and humid for 2 days then the temperature plummeted. I loved the Highlands, it reminded me of the Southern part of the South Island, very scenic :)
Ahhh, cold 'beer' is invariably flavourless pish anyway. Proper beer is served at about 10 degrees C.
I knew I liked you!
We were in Scotland in Set/Oct 2014 and stayed in Newtonmore near Loch Laggan. It was warm and humid for 2 days then the temperature plummeted. I loved the Highlands, it reminded me of the Southern part of the South Island, very scenic :)
Yeah that sounds about right. The weather here is nuts. If you don’t like the weather just hang on for 20 minutes.
I have relatives in Sydney and I almost went to live there myself back in 2006. I changed my mind at the last minute due to being, and I quote this from my aunt who lives there, “a total fu*king p*ssy.”
Aside from that she’s lovely.
I like your Aunt she sounds like me I would say the same A total fuccen
p.ussy
I will have to meet my sister from a different mister :roflmao:
If you have to (or choose to) temporarily suspend some of your personal rights so that the lives of many vulnerable and/or elderly citizens can be saved then that's a good thing to do. It's a caring, empathetic approach that goes beyond self to others. It's simple and doesn't have to have an underlying agenda to it.
And guess what, sometimes it actually works.
The "elderly and/or vulnerable"? You must be playing dumb again!
Doctors have been advised not to go into care homes and treat the elderly due to risks of COVID-19. Staff have not been "tested" as they should have and many not given vital PPE, therefore spreading COVID-19 and other bugs/infections in immunocompromised patients. Then the media talks about all the care home "deaths". Many old and vulnerable have been left to die before their time, so don't tell me about protecting the vulnerable because that really IS BS.
Furthermore, if our govts really cared about the old and infirm they would have invested billions into care homes, not systematically cut funding more and more over the years.
Many "vulnerable" members on NMP know how you're treated by govt depts like DWP when you need vital help with your mental health: You're treated like a piece of crap. So, no, I don't think my or your govt could give a flying pig's shit for us.
We were in Scotland in Set/Oct 2014 and stayed in Newtonmore near Loch Laggan. It was warm and humid for 2 days then the temperature plummeted. I loved the Highlands, it reminded me of the Southern part of the South Island, very scenic :)
WM you were told You naughty woman not too gloat and boast:roflmao:
:winks:
WiseMonkey
19-05-20, 15:08
I like your Aunt she sounds like me I would say the same A total fuccen
p.ussy
I will have to meet my sister from a different mister :roflmao:
I was teaching in a low decile multicultural school in West Auckland and got to know this family of five children, the youngest was in my class. At the end of the day all the whanau would appear at the classroom door, peas out of a pod but all with different surnames ... all brothers and sisters from different misters :)
WiseMonkey
19-05-20, 15:19
WM you were told You naughty woman not too gloat and boast:roflmao:
:winks:
Opps sorry Ms L but at least things have lightened up, there sure were some angry peeps on here this evening (southern hemisphere time). Off to climb my favourite totara tree for a nap :flowers:
Opps (naughty monkey) sorry Ms L but at least things have lightened up, there sure were some angry peeps on here this evening (southern hemisphere time). Off to climb my favourite tree for a nap :flowers:
Up you go - and stay up there :D
Opps (naughty monkey) sorry Ms L but at least things have lightened up, there sure were some angry peeps on here this evening (southern hemisphere time). Off to climb my favourite tree for a nap :flowers:
I’ve posted twice to you and both times tried to do it kindly. With the exception of KK I don’t think anyone has been angry.
I was just trying to ask you to be kind, like you yourself have posted about on other threads.
Keep posting about your wonderful life then, and keep living it well.
I think I’ll give this thread a miss from now on.
Pamplemousse
19-05-20, 15:40
I try, honest I do, to enjoy real ales and beers but it just doesn’t happen. I’m from the lager generation I’m afraid.
I'll let you off.... :D
Pamplemousse
19-05-20, 15:40
I knew I liked you!
:bighug1:
What's your preferred style, Pamplemousse? I'm a woman of extremes, I either like stouts and porters or sours and goezes.
Wait!? This convo turned to beer and I missed it!? Argh!
I love stout. I think sometimes I was born in the wrong country because of my beer preferences.
I’ve posted twice to you and both times tried to do it kindly. With the exception of KK I don’t think anyone has been angry.
I was just trying to ask you to be kind, like you yourself have posted about on other threads.
Keep posting about your wonderful life then, and keep living it well.
I think I’ll give this thread a miss from now on.
There have been many other passive aggressive/angry posts, Scass. But you stay off this thread if it makes you feel better :winks:
Pamplemousse
19-05-20, 16:50
What's your preferred style, Pamplemousse? I'm a woman of extremes, I either like stouts and porters or sours and goezes.
Porters I like; very fond of single-hop IPAs (Oakham Citra being my favourite) and unfined beers (Mad Squirrel $UMO) but also, thanks to a heatwave in Paris I discovered cherry lambics, and lambics in general. If you want sour, try Mort Subite Oude Kriek which is sour beyond belief - but once you've tried it, you want more... :emot-drunk:
Pamplemousse
19-05-20, 16:52
Wait!? This convo turned to beer and I missed it!? Argh!
I love stout. I think sometimes I was born in the wrong country because of my beer preferences.
You guys have a brilliant micro-brewery scene, get into it. The local beer festival (unsurprisingly cancelled this year) has a lot of US micro-breweries in attendance. There's one my brother loves which seems to make use of smoked hops - and it's wonderful!
Ohhh, love me some Oude Kriek!
I've decided that once we're out of lockdown, I'm finally getting passports sorted and sweeping Mr. Iris off to Bruges.
Pamplemousse
19-05-20, 17:52
Ohhh, love me some Oude Kriek!
I've decided that once we're out of lockdown, I'm finally getting passports sorted and sweeping Mr. Iris off to Bruges.
There's a company in Kings Lynn called Beers Of Europe (https://www.beersofeurope.co.uk/) which occasionally has MS Oude Kriek in stock. Bit pricey, but worth a look. At the moment, they have Timmermans's Oude Kriek (https://www.beersofeurope.co.uk/beer/country/belgium/timmermans-oude-kriek-375ml) in stock - give it a go!
Today's UK stats
545 deaths, possibly making allowances for the usual weekend recording lag, but still less than last Tuesday.
2,412 new confirmed cases, 272 fewer than yesterday. Not a massive reduction, but still heading in the right direction.
Also today I came across this interview with medical professor Karol Sikora on YouTube, who is fairly well respected, and his commentary gives us rather interesting (and possibly reassuring) food for thought.
The link is: youtube.com/watch?v=uk2YZfnsOPg
DISCLAIMER: Don't be fooled into thinking we might almost be out of the woods after watching this, as this video just represents one UK 'expert's' own opinions, rather than the absolute gospel truth at this stage, so view and interpret it with caution.
P.S. Mods, please feel free to delete/remove it if considered inappropriate.
MyNameIsTerry
19-05-20, 17:55
If you believe the lockdowns - suspending people's rights to movement, gathering, protests, free speech (which has been seriously eroded and curtailed since this all began) - and social distancing etc, are justified because of COVID-19 then you are observing and accepting the "official line" - ie the version of events govts and other affiliated institutions like the WHO have expounded and propagated.
The official narrative is directly and indirectly telling people that all these changes are necessary because of the existential threat posed by this virus. Indeed if it wasn't existential no one in their right minds would allow such freedoms to be taken away from them (along with the bribery of sitting at home while earning 80% salary).
What did they need it for that wouldn't wait? Are you concerned legislation is being pushed through without the right to have a protest march? If not then surely it doesn't matter? Surely we should be taking responsibility not to spread this and put vulnerable people at even more risk?
Surely not having a music festival or outdoor celebration of some kind isn't a big deal other than the loss of revenue?
Wait!? This convo turned to beer and I missed it!? Argh!
I love stout. I think sometimes I was born in the wrong country because of my beer preferences.
Stout? You are what you drink they say.😁
MyNameIsTerry
19-05-20, 18:01
The "elderly and/or vulnerable"? You must be playing dumb again!
Doctors have been advised not to go into care homes and treat the elderly due to risks of COVID-19. Staff have not been "tested" as they should have and many not given vital PPE, therefore spreading COVID-19 and other bugs/infections in immunocompromised patients. Then the media talks about all the care home "deaths". Many old and vulnerable have been left to die before their time, so don't tell me about protecting the vulnerable because that really IS BS.
Furthermore, if our govts really cared about the old and infirm they would have invested billions into care homes, not systematically cut funding more and more over the years.
Many "vulnerable" members on NMP know how you're treated by govt depts like DWP when you need vital help with your mental health: You're treated like a piece of crap. So, no, I don't think my or your govt could give a flying pig's shit for us.
Doctors are not even coming out to people's homes yet they are sending out district nurses to them. Something I've found out recently when one of our GPs did exactly this including sending paramedics for a non emergency chronic issue. The paramedics were excellent and very understanding, we even told them thiscwasnt our choice and an overreaction by the GP.
But imagine no lockdown. You would still need to change what people do or they would just carry on as normal. How many of the vulnerable and elderly would be infected by that?
Even now we still have idiots ignoring social distancing. Just now in a supermarket we had idiots ignoring the arrows including one with a NHS badge who was happily nipping between people as if nothing had happened. But maybe these people don't believe in it because of xyz?
What did they need it for that wouldn't wait? Are you concerned legislation is being pushed through without the right to have a protest march? If not then surely it doesn't matter? Surely we should be taking responsibility not to spread this and put vulnerable people at even more risk?
Surely not having a music festival or outdoor celebration of some kind isn't a big deal other than the loss of revenue?
But surely Terry the loss of revenue is enormous...possibly more enormous than the virus itself. Not talking about the lost revenue of a single event. I'm talking about all the lost revenue from the last ten weeks and going forward indefinitely. I don't think people realize the human toll a totally destroyed economy can have across the globe. It very well could be a case of the cure being worse than the disease itself. Time will tell.
MyNameIsTerry
19-05-20, 18:15
But surely Terry the loss of revenue is enormous...possibly more enormous than the virus itself. Not talking about the lost revenue of a single event. I'm talking about all the lost revenue from the last ten weeks and going forward indefinitely. I don't think people realize the human toll a totally destroyed economy can have across the globe. It very well could be a case of the cure being worse than the disease itself. Time will tell.
Yes, it is, N. Belts will be tightened. But many can do that, we live in an age of buying stuff we can do without...thus knackering the economy again :doh:
The economy is a very important thing to weigh up to determine how much of this we can ensure. But if we had done nothing they would have to explain sitting on their bums with their thumbs up them while the hospitals became swamped and so many vulnerable people died.
I do agree that it's not so simplistic as lives on money because the fallout from this will hammer public services leading to deaths further down the line. But is it a matter of choosing the best of a list of options including far worse?
President Tweety has been taking hydroxychloroquine, an unproven drug treatment that has side effects that are dangerous for those with pre-existing issues. Tweety will be 74 and has heart disease.... But at least his investments in the companies that make it are making him $$$ :whistles:
Positive thoughts
Stout? You are what you drink they say.
What are trying to say, N? You got an issue with tall, thick women?
Opps (naughty monkey) sorry Ms L but at least things have lightened up, there sure were some angry peeps on here this evening (southern hemisphere time). Off to climb my favourite tree for a nap :flowers:
This situation WILL make people angry though..Particularly people in the UK and Europe who may be badly affected by what is going on and can't just laugh it off and celebrate NZ's achievement with you..
MyNameIsTerry
19-05-20, 21:13
What are trying to say, N? You got an issue with tall, thick women?
I always find you very intelligent, Vee :read:
Lol, thank you, Terry :hugs: You have moved up in the empire ;)
The "vulnerable" and the elderly are being exterminated like vermin in care homes. The official government figures are 10,000 "unexplained" deaths so the real number is probably triple that. The demonisation of old people has been going on for a long time, they are portrayed as useless eaters, a burden on society and the healthcare system. Now, these sociopaths are using this fake virus to murder as many of them as possible under the false pretense of "protecting" them.
Have you just accused carehome workers of murdering old people, Hollow? Because if the virus is fake, the only other way they could be murdered is by the carehome staff.
Or is Bill Gates creeping in the window of care homes at night with a pillow?
Have you just accused carehome workers of murdering old people, Hollow? Because if the virus is fake, the only other way they could be murdered is by the carehome staff.
Or is Bill Gates creeping in the window of care homes at night with a pillow?
This is an example of why we're in the predicament we're in.....
Positive thoughts
Porters I like; very fond of single-hop IPAs (Oakham Citra being my favourite) and unfined beers (Mad Squirrel $UMO) but also, thanks to a heatwave in Paris I discovered cherry lambics, and lambics in general. If you want sour, try Mort Subite Oude Kriek which is sour beyond belief - but once you've tried it, you want more... :emot-drunk:Pamplemousse, that's not Oakham in Rutland by any chance? A lovely little place not far from me set in rolling countryside. Loads of history like the UK possesses :D And not far from that you have Rockingham Castle perched at the top of a stunning vale, built by William the Conqueror no less :shades: Not on his own of course, he had a couple of labourers and someone to make the tea.
Pamplemousse
19-05-20, 23:25
Pamplemousse, that's not Oakham in Rutland by any chance? A lovely little place not far from me set in rolling countryside. Loads of history like the UK possesses :D And not far from that you have Rockingham Castle perched at the top of a stunning vale, built by William the Conqueror no less :shades: Not on his own of course, he had a couple of labourers and someone to make the tea.
The very same - except Oakham Ales's brewery is actually in Peterborough :) Yes, I've heard of Oakham in the past.
Have you just accused carehome workers of murdering old people, Hollow? Because if the virus is fake, the only other way they could be murdered is by the carehome staff.
Or is Bill Gates creeping in the window of care homes at night with a pillow?
That's what you're saying, not Hollow.
11,000 elderly people have died as a result of "not being prioritised" and through lack of funding and care. The UK Govt is responsible for this and has serious questions to answer.
Protecting the old and vulnerable, my arse.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52721737
There's a company in Kings Lynn called Beers Of Europe (https://www.beersofeurope.co.uk/) which occasionally has MS Oude Kriek in stock. Bit pricey, but worth a look. At the moment, they have Timmermans's Oude Kriek (https://www.beersofeurope.co.uk/beer/country/belgium/timmermans-oude-kriek-375ml) in stock - give it a go!
Funny thing, Mr. Iris is into his homebrew and recently bought a kit from Beers of Europe.
I like your suggestion, but I got too enthusiastic too quickly and put in an order from Beer Gonzo - you wouldn't expect to find one of the UK's best beer shops in Coventry, much as I love the place, but I'm not complaining. Some of the prices are a bit shocking but you can find the good stuff at an affordable price if you don't mind something new.
Picked myself up a bottle of 3Fonteinen's 2018 Gose, but the real star buy was a couple of bottles of Tynt Meadow. It's the UK's only Trappist ale, it tastes incredible and if you can source it, it's cheap as chips.
Sorry for derailing, but I'm enjoying this conversation more than the arguments right now.
MyNameIsTerry
20-05-20, 05:27
Funny thing, Mr. Iris is into his homebrew and recently bought a kit from Beers of Europe.
I like your suggestion, but I got too enthusiastic too quickly and put in an order from Beer Gonzo - you wouldn't expect to find one of the UK's best beer shops in Coventry, much as I love the place, but I'm not complaining. Some of the prices are a bit shocking but you can find the good stuff at an affordable price if you don't mind something new.
Picked myself up a bottle of 3Fonteinen's 2018 Gose, but the real star buy was a couple of bottles of Tynt Meadow. It's the UK's only Trappist ale, it tastes incredible and if you can source it, it's cheap as chips.
Sorry for derailing, but I'm enjoying this conversation more than the arguments right now.
Do any of you go to the beer festivals? I know people who've been to Germany for them, my brother did many years ago and said it was great, but I've done a few of the local ones years ago. My first when I was at sixth form college...those evil little bottles of Duvel :emot-drunk:
My brother loves some good ales so I always get him a few for birthdays and Christmas. The winter warmer ones are good with caramel, chocolate, rum, etc notes to them.
Closer brewery to me is Titanic.
We go to local beer festivals, Terry, but Cov has plenty so we don't often leave the city.
Our local brewery is Twisted Barrel, and under non-lockdown conditions we go there every other Saturday. They usually have a good variety of their own and guest brews - they used to skew quite heavily towards the IPAs (not my favourite) but their range is better now, and their mild is a thing of wonder.
That's what you're saying, not Hollow.
11,000 elderly people have died as a result of "not being prioritised" and through lack of funding and care. The UK Govt is responsible for this and has serious questions to answer.
You’re an expert at deflecting for this idiot KK.
At no point have I said that the UK government have done anything like a good job in care homes, quite the contrary, and yes, serious questions should be asked about how they weren’t prioritised.
How the hell do you equate that to being murdered and a virus being used as a cover? Which is what Hollow said. He did not say anything like what you’ve put fourth to defend him.
I know you like indulging in a few whacky theories yourself but why you’d defend that statement is beyond me. In fact, how about letting tin foil hat boy speak for himself?
WiseMonkey
20-05-20, 09:18
I know you like indulging in a few whacky theories yourself but why you’d defend that statement is beyond me. In fact, how about letting tin foil hat boy speak for himself?
This is like asking DT not to tweet! Plus they're kindred spirits.
To be clear, KK’s point about the treatment of carehome residents and workers is something fully agree with. They have been avoided when they should have been prioritised. I have no problem admitting that.
There’s a world of difference, though, in saying they’ve been neglected and left to deal with this virus and insinuating that they’re being physically murdered, coronavirus used as a cover and it’s Bill Gates behind it.
That IS what Hollow said, in black and white. If the virus is fake, who is “murdering” these people? Can only be carehome staff themselves because literally nobody else is allowed in.
Good luck defending that drivel.
The "vulnerable" and the elderly are being exterminated like vermin in care homes. The official government figures are 10,000 "unexplained" deaths so the real number is probably triple that. The demonisation of old people has been going on for a long time, they are portrayed as useless eaters, a burden on society and the healthcare system. Now, these sociopaths are using this fake virus to murder as many of them as possible under the false pretense of "protecting" them.
The demonisation part I can get behind, but this clearly isn't a fake virus, if people outside care homes are dying from it.
Pamplemousse
20-05-20, 11:39
This is like asking DT not to tweet! Plus they're kindred spirits.
https://media.giphy.com/media/WPJDGY9K5AVa0/giphy.gif
What are trying to say, N? You got an issue with tall, thick women?
My wife once asked me do I have a big ass? I said yes you all do. It's how you're built. It's what we like. She said but is it too big? I said too big? 😉
N.
You’re an expert at deflecting for this idiot KK.
At no point have I said that the UK government have done anything like a good job in care homes, quite the contrary, and yes, serious questions should be asked about how they weren’t prioritised.
How the hell do you equate that to being murdered and a virus being used as a cover? Which is what Hollow said. He did not say anything like what you’ve put fourth to defend him.
I know you like indulging in a few whacky theories yourself but why you’d defend that statement is beyond me. In fact, how about letting tin foil hat boy speak for himself?
You have a habit of expounding ridicule in order to discredit and "debunk", Gary.
The existence of a virus is not necessary. Elderly people, most at the end of their lives and terminal, have had care and treatment withdrawn. This is why they have died months, perhaps even years, before their time. Funding has been massively cut too and even in the cases where treatment has been ostensibly given, it has proved too little, too late.
So none of this is "CT". The case that all these patients died even "with" COVID-19 is bunkum when vital care, treatment and support are withdrawn. If "murder" or "extermination" is too strong for you, then you must admit this is a form of eugenics and manslaughter and there will be many cases of families taking legal action.
So now the question remains: Why were we led to believe that this lockdown was needed to protect the old and vulnerable when the opposite is now the case? In fact, the elderly could have been shielded and protected in care homes without a lockdown on the rest of general society.
The mendacity and deceit is utterly staggering and all this is not even including the irreversible damage inflicted on economies, the extent of which govts are only now beginning to admit...
venusbluejeans
20-05-20, 13:24
speculative videos will be deleted... this is an anxiety forum, please remember that what you post will cause people anxiety, if it isn't relevant or 100% truthful from an accurate source then it should not be posted.
This situation WILL make people angry though..Particularly people in the UK and Europe who may be badly affected by what is going on and can't just laugh it off and celebrate NZ's achievement with you..
Excellent reply, Pulisa. One which Monkey has ignored :lac:
She is good, however, at sniggering behind other members' backs and making snarky comments. Whatever floats your boat, I suppose...
You seem to be agreeing with a of lot things we say but for some reason you're incapable of putting 2 + 2 together and reaching logical conclusions. Either, you're being intelectually dishonest and playing games or just can't see the forest for the trees. I can understand that because being a professional conspiracy "debunker", if you start connecting these obvious dots then your whole worldview falls apart. So, you resort to weak arguments like " numbers are a bit fuzzy" or that elderlry in care homes have been "neglected".
It would be obvious to anyone who is not as biased as you that by "murder" I meant the elderely had been left to die in care homes. Rather than sugar coating, I just called it out for what it is and nowhere did I say that it was care home workers. You're probably going to put this down to "incompetence" and brush it aside.
NHS management said elderly would “have to die” in care homes
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/05/19/cauk-m19.html
(https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/05/19/cauk-m19.html)Devastating evidence has come to light confirming that the Johnson government’s murderous policies have led to the deaths of thousands of care home residents.
Office for National Statistics (ONS) data shows that around 12,000 people have died in the UK’s care homes. The real figure is far higher—at least 20,000 according to the Financial Times and the Times.
speculative videos will be deleted... this is an anxiety forum, please remember that what you post will cause people anxiety, if it isn't relevant or 100% truthful from an accurate source then it should not be posted.
You're the admin so you can delete whatever posts you want but how are you going to define what is "100% truthful" and which sources are "accurate".
You seem to be agreeing with a of lot things we say but for some reason you're incapable of putting 2 + 2 together and reaching logical conclusions. Either, you're being intelectually dishonest and playing games or just can't see the forest for the trees. I can understand that because being a professional conspiracy "debunker", if you start connecting these obvious dots then your whole worldview falls apart. So, you resort to weak arguments like " numbers are a bit fuzzy" or that elderlry in care homes have been "neglected".
It would be obvious to anyone who is not as biased as you that by "murder" I meant the elderely had been left to die in care homes. Rather than sugar coating, I just called it out for what it is and nowhere did I say that it was care home workers. You're probably going to put this down to "incompetence" and brush it aside.
NHS management said elderly would “have to die” in care homes
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/05/19/cauk-m19.html
(https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/05/19/cauk-m19.html)Devastating evidence has come to light confirming that the Johnson government’s murderous policies have led to the deaths of thousands of care home residents.
Office for National Statistics (ONS) data shows that around 12,000 people have died in the UK’s care homes. The real figure is far higher—at least 20,000 according to the Financial Times and the Times.
So let me get this right. If I say that the numbers are “fuzzy”, even though I’ve went into great detail about exactly what I mean and why they are “fuzzy”, I’m apparently incapable of reaching logical conclusions? What a load of absolute tosh.
So I’ll explain again, for probably about the 5th or 6th time, what I mean by “fuzzy”.
If people die after being diagnosed with Covid-19, in the absence of autopsy then the only thing that can be said is they have died after being diagnosed with Covid-19. That’s exactly what IS said, but of course that wouldn’t fit your warped little view so you ignore that. Also, in order to get an accurate morbidity rate, the entire population would need to be tested either with a test showing current or previous infection. I’m sure even you can see that that’s impossible to achieve in a period of a few months.
Your need to make everything a conspiracy causes you to blatantly ignore such obvious things and start harping on about people being murdered, psychological warfare and other such drivel that belongs nowhere near intellectual debate.
Your use of the word “murder” is designed to get a reaction, nothing more. What would be wrong in just saying that they’ve been neglected and are dying due to a lack of care, testing or attention? Ah but see, then you’d have to admit that Covid-19 exists, and we can’t have that can we? It’s not a conspiracy then, it’s just a government making a royal arse of it.
You still haven’t even gotten as far as explaining how anyone can fake a virus. You haven’t even tried. You talk about “weak arguments” when the only attempt you’ve ever made at explaining that is to say that hundreds of thousands of scientists worldwide are “following orders”, while providing not a shred of evidence as to who it is even giving said orders. Arguments don’t come much weaker than that.
You reckon that the virus doesn’t exist and these old folk are just dropping dead for no other reason than being kept inside? I mean, seriously? That’s just absolute nonsense.
I’ve given up trying to get you to back your assertion that Covid-19 doesn’t exist because, well, you can’t. You know it and I know it. The evidence for its existence it’s staggering, and on a personal level my mother’s best friend died from it in April at 59 years of age with no underlying conditions. I watched her funeral via a video link. Perhaps I should have told her grieving sons and grandchildren that it was psychological warfare that killed her?
You said it yourself. Connecting dots. That’s all you do. They’re only “obvious” to someone who wants to think they know better than everyone and is desperate to reach a conclusion that they’ve read on tinfoilhat.com.
My position is clear. Covid-19 exists. It’s killing people. Are there deaths being attributed to it perhaps too hastily? Yes, but this is purely due to a lack of a model by which to gather data accurately. The carehome deaths are a scandal and are down to a government not doing their job. There is no fake virus, psychological warfare or evil controlling hand. This is a new virus that has seen some nations deal with it far better than others.
Your assertion that it’s fake and it’s only being put out there to control people is an embarrassing position for an adult with half a brain to hold.
You have a habit of expounding ridicule in order to discredit and "debunk", Gary.
The existence of a virus is not necessary. Elderly people, most at the end of their lives and terminal, have had care and treatment withdrawn. This is why they have died months, perhaps even years, before their time. Funding has been massively cut too and even in the cases where treatment has been ostensibly given, it has proved too little, too late.
So none of this is "CT". The case that all these patients died even "with" COVID-19 is bunkum when vital care, treatment and support are withdrawn. If "murder" or "extermination" is too strong for you, then you must admit this is a form of eugenics and manslaughter and there will be many cases of families taking legal action.
So now the question remains: Why were we led to believe that this lockdown was needed to protect the old and vulnerable when the opposite is now the case? In fact, the elderly could have been shielded and protected in care homes without a lockdown on the rest of general society.
The mendacity and deceit is utterly staggering and all this is not even including the irreversible damage inflicted on economies, the extent of which govts are only now beginning to admit...
I apologise to you for a bit of name calling.
I don’t disagree with anything you say about the carehome deaths, they are a scandal.
The lockdown? I don’t know. I personally think we will only see if it was necessary after the fact, but what I would say is that if we hadn’t went into lockdown there was a real worry that the NHS would have been completely overwhelmed. Again, this will only be shown to be true or false when all is said and done, which is a position I’ve held since day one.
Phoenixess
20-05-20, 15:07
Is this thread for all covid questions??
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Is this thread for all covid questions??
Its turned into the opinions leaning toward the socioeconomic and political ramifications of the pandemic. Real or not ;)
THIS ONE (https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?233967-Coronavirus-worries) is geared to fears of getting it and symptoms etc.
Positive thoughts
Is this thread for all covid questions??
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It seems to be more discussion. There’s is a “worried” thread that isn’t so heated.
Phoenixess
20-05-20, 15:39
Thanks guys [emoji106][emoji3590]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
MyNameIsTerry
20-05-20, 16:24
So let me get this right. If I say that the numbers are “fuzzy”, even though I’ve went into great detail about exactly what I mean and why they are “fuzzy”, I’m apparently incapable of reaching logical conclusions? What a load of absolute tosh.
So I’ll explain again, for probably about the 5th or 6th time, what I mean by “fuzzy”.
If people die after being diagnosed with Covid-19, in the absence of autopsy then the only thing that can be said is they have died after being diagnosed with Covid-19. That’s exactly what IS said, but of course that wouldn’t fit your warped little view so you ignore that. Also, in order to get an accurate morbidity rate, the entire population would need to be tested either with a test showing current or previous infection. I’m sure even you can see that that’s impossible to achieve in a period of a few months.
Your need to make everything a conspiracy causes you to blatantly ignore such obvious things and start harping on about people being murdered, psychological warfare and other such drivel that belongs nowhere near intellectual debate.
Your use of the word “murder” is designed to get a reaction, nothing more. What would be wrong in just saying that they’ve been neglected and are dying due to a lack of care, testing or attention? Ah but see, then you’d have to admit that Covid-19 exists, and we can’t have that can we? It’s not a conspiracy then, it’s just a government making a royal arse of it.
You still haven’t even gotten as far as explaining how anyone can fake a virus. You haven’t even tried. You talk about “weak arguments” when the only attempt you’ve ever made at explaining that is to say that hundreds of thousands of scientists worldwide are “following orders”, while providing not a shred of evidence as to who it is even giving said orders. Arguments don’t come much weaker than that.
You reckon that the virus doesn’t exist and these old folk are just dropping dead for no other reason than being kept inside? I mean, seriously? That’s just absolute nonsense.
I’ve given up trying to get you to back your assertion that Covid-19 doesn’t exist because, well, you can’t. You know it and I know it. The evidence for its existence it’s staggering, and on a personal level my mother’s best friend died from it in April at 59 years of age with no underlying conditions. I watched her funeral via a video link. Perhaps I should have told her grieving sons and grandchildren that it was psychological warfare that killed her?
You said it yourself. Connecting dots. That’s all you do. They’re only “obvious” to someone who wants to think they know better than everyone and is desperate to reach a conclusion that they’ve read on tinfoilhat.com.
My position is clear. Covid-19 exists. It’s killing people. Are there deaths being attributed to it perhaps too hastily? Yes, but this is purely due to a lack of a model by which to gather data accurately. The carehome deaths are a scandal and are down to a government not doing their job. There is no fake virus, psychological warfare or evil controlling hand. This is a new virus that has seen some nations deal with it far better than others.
Your assertion that it’s fake and it’s only being put out there to control people is an embarrassing position for an adult with half a brain to hold.
I don't take his point seriously about the vulnerable and elderly. His position is this is a hoax therefore he would have done nothing to shield them and just let the virus run its course killing many more of the at risk. That would have been an even bigger failure. He's just using them.
Sorry to hear about your loss. I hope your mum is coping and has plenty of support around her. :hugs:
Its turned into the opinions leaning toward the socioeconomic and political ramifications of the pandemic. Real or not ;)
THIS ONE (https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?233967-Coronavirus-worries) is geared to fears of getting it and symptoms etc.
Positive thoughts
I agree with you entirely, Fishmanpa.
Whilst I agree that BoJo and Co's handling of this crisis has most certainly been questionable, no doubt Labour or the Lib Dems probably would have been vilified just the same, especially by the 'hard-righters' and the die-hard 'know-it-alls' of this country. And also the 'foreigners', benefit 'scroungers', etc, probably would have been used as further scapegoats.
Blame culture galore!!
I don't take his point seriously about the vulnerable and elderly. His position is this is a hoax therefore he would have done nothing to shield them and just let the virus run its course killing many more of the at risk. That would have been an even bigger failure. He's just using them.
Sorry to hear about your loss. I hope your mum is coping and has plenty of support around her. :hugs:
Thanks. I was a bit upset for her more than anything.
She was in hospital for 6 days and had to say goodbye to her sons, who I’m quite close to, via zoom.
I don’t mean to add worry to anyone here, which is why I haven’t mentioned it before, but it gets even harder to listen to those claiming it’s all rubbish when you’ve witnessed the grief that it causes first hand.
As some here know my wife is a respiratory therapist directly dealing with covid 19 patients. She got home from work last night and proclaimed... "they're shutting the covid units down!" That's a great sign! They had five units that were converted from other units and now they are down to two. Probably today or tomorrow it will be down to one...and then none.
That's the latest from the trenches.
N.
Thanks. I was a bit upset for her more than anything.
She was in hospital for 6 days and had to say goodbye to her sons, who I’m quite close to, via zoom.
I don’t mean to add worry to anyone here, which is why I haven’t mentioned it before, but it gets even harder to listen to those claiming it’s all rubbish when you’ve witnessed the grief that it causes first hand.
I think what it is Gary is that many haven't seen what's going on directly. Some people have to see things for their own eyes to truly believe it. And also I do think that there is a huge oversell for various reasons...whether that's because of someone's agenda or the powers that be are just erring on the side of caution. So when people hear that kind of reaction to it and don't see much evidence of it personally they doubt.
Its turned into the opinions leaning toward the socioeconomic and political ramifications of the pandemic. Real or not ;)
THIS ONE (https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?233967-Coronavirus-worries) is geared to fears of getting it and symptoms etc.
Positive thoughtsLove this summary Fishmanpa!!
Thanks. I was a bit upset for her more than anything.
She was in hospital for 6 days and had to say goodbye to her sons, who I’m quite close to, via zoom.
I don’t mean to add worry to anyone here, which is why I haven’t mentioned it before, but it gets even harder to listen to those claiming it’s all rubbish when you’ve witnessed the grief that it causes first hand.I'm very sorry to hear this Gary, the ripples of tragedy can reach a lot of people. We all know this virus is real, a chap just along the road from us was in hospital with it for 2 weeks. Myself and Mrs F have known them for a long time. He's ok now though thankfully.
MyNameIsTerry
20-05-20, 21:49
Thanks. I was a bit upset for her more than anything.
She was in hospital for 6 days and had to say goodbye to her sons, who I’m quite close to, via zoom.
I don’t mean to add worry to anyone here, which is why I haven’t mentioned it before, but it gets even harder to listen to those claiming it’s all rubbish when you’ve witnessed the grief that it causes first hand.
It must be incredibly difficult to say goodbye remotely? It's tragic it has to be this way when it's so natural to be in the room having physical contact to show people they are loved. For many the thought of the person suffering more for this will only make their grief harder, at least I would expect that.
Yes, and as N says they aren't going through it so it's more inconvenience or the worry of money for some (including some who struggle to pay the bills) until it hits home like this. Those of us with vulnerable people in our lives have had all the thoughts about the worst and naturally despair at the attitudes of some willing to put others at risk just to have their way.
MyNameIsTerry
21-05-20, 04:36
An interesting problem for teachers:
https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/20/nursery-staff-wont-wear-face-masks-children-found-really-frightening-12732829/
I was wondering how kids with autism will respond to this? A woman at the group I used to go to has a young boy going through the assessment and one day the kids all dressed up as dinosaurs which scared the life out of the poor lad.
Another interesting issue is the hearing impaired. There is already an issue over full face coverings that can cause problems for them lip reading as employers or customers.
An interesting problem for teachers:
https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/20/nursery-staff-wont-wear-face-masks-children-found-really-frightening-12732829/
I was wondering how kids with autism will respond to this? A woman at the group I used to go to has a young boy going through the assessment and one day the kids all dressed up as dinosaurs which scared the life out of the poor lad.
Another interesting issue is the hearing impaired. There is already an issue over full face coverings that can cause problems for them lip reading as employers or customers.
A typical 'catch-22' situation.
At least children (and adults) on the spectrum are being considered and acknowledged a lot more nowadays, unlike even as late as the 90s they were often regarded as naughty and deviant, and told by both parents and teachers to 'put up and shut up', or face severe punishment. I was often on the receiving end of that attitude of sheer ignorance when I was a kid. I was even told on a couple of occasions that I probably 'asked for it' when I got bullied.
The 80s and 90s the 'good old days' for me? Over my dead body!!
I was told by a psychiatrist that now things are going the other way to compensate for the mistakes of the past re ASD and special needs..It's galling isn't it, Lencoboy..? Now no one dare say a word out of line..I put up with a hell of a lot of ignorant comments re my children and I know you suffered a great deal.
I was wondering how kids with autism will respond to this? A woman at the group I used to go to has a young boy going through the assessment and one day the kids all dressed up as dinosaurs which scared the life out of the poor lad.
Speaking as someone who has at least a variant of autism, I probably wouldn't have found face masks in themselves scary. I'd just find it scary that they're having to resort to using them in the first place.
I was told by a psychiatrist that now things are going the other way to compensate for the mistakes of the past re ASD and special needs..It's galling isn't it, Lencoboy..? Now no one dare say a word out of line..I put up with a hell of a lot of ignorant comments re my children and I know you suffered a great deal.
Thanks for your sympathetic comments, Pulisa.
I find it just as galling when certain people, even of my own age group, who seem to yearn for the days when parents, teachers, etc, had carte-blanche to beat children black and blue willy-nilly (especially with objects such as belts, slippers, etc, fashioned into 'weaponry') and boast 'it never did us no harm', etc, and treat it as some badge of honour.
Certainly did me harm, particularly in a psychological sense, though luckily I was never whacked with belts, slippers, canes, etc.
Speaking as someone who has at least a variant of autism, I probably wouldn't have found face masks in themselves scary. I'd just find it scary that they're having to resort to using them in the first place.
Seconded.
Pamplemousse
21-05-20, 16:39
Thanks for your sympathetic comments, Pulisa.
I find it just as galling when certain people, even of my own age group, who seem to yearn for the days when parents, teachers, etc, had carte-blanche to beat children black and blue willy-nilly (especially with objects such as belts, slippers, etc, fashioned into 'weaponry') and boast 'it never did us no harm', etc, and treat it as some badge of honour.
Certainly did me harm, particularly in a psychological sense, though luckily I was never whacked with belts, slippers, canes, etc.
I had the slipper twice. An old schoolfriend got hit by a wooden board rubber lobbed with alarming precision by our biology master; you could be forgiven for thinking he indulged in target practice out of hours. It's funny how the "never did me any harm" brigade are frequently deeply unpleasant and damaged people, isn't it?
MyNameIsTerry
21-05-20, 17:52
https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/21/nhs-doctor-enough-people-clapping
Ok...let's all have a disrespect campaign then? And that £33m raised can be pushed to social care.
The issues of the NHS will always be there and it's right to beware politicians trying to distract people but everyone else in a position to do nothing is showing some thanks and you are sick of them? :doh:
Now when we return to normal and the NHS is seriously backlogged I take it you want our patience and understanding? :biggrin:
Clapping fascism :roflmao:
Britain testing hydroxychloroquine on healthcare workers.
The state-run, socialised healthcare provider will be giving hydroxychloroquine to as many as 10,000 health workers at at least 20 hospitals as part of a clinical trial led by the Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit (Moru), to confirm anecdotal evidence that it can prevent people from catching the Chinese virus.
Thanks for your sympathetic comments, Pulisa.
I find it just as galling when certain people, even of my own age group, who seem to yearn for the days when parents, teachers, etc, had carte-blanche to beat children black and blue willy-nilly (especially with objects such as belts, slippers, etc, fashioned into 'weaponry') and boast 'it never did us no harm', etc, and treat it as some badge of honour.
Certainly did me harm, particularly in a psychological sense, though luckily I was never whacked with belts, slippers, canes, etc.I totally agree Lencoboy. I mentioned elsewhere on these threads that I received the slipper and the cane, the former on four different occasions. I certainly didn't enjoy it, though it wasn't so much the physical pain (that was fleeting), but the humiliation, as you said yourself. I think that's what this type of punishment is designed to do, to make you feel worthless. From the standpoint of classmates though it probably was a badge of honour.
I had the slipper twice. An old schoolfriend got hit by a wooden board rubber lobbed with alarming precision by our biology master; you could be forgiven for thinking he indulged in target practice out of hours. It's funny how the "never did me any harm" brigade are frequently deeply unpleasant and damaged people, isn't it?
I totally agree with you. Wouldn't mind betting you that, contrary to popular belief, a good proportion of today's 'wayward' kids (that all too sadly, the press seem more interested in bombarding us with horror stories about than the 'decent' majority of kids) are the ones that are frequently on the receiving end of good hidings from their parents, but seem to be more savvy at keeping schtum about it and covering up for their parents' actions when at school, etc, but obviously have a very unfortunate habit of attempting to resolve disputes with violence and aggression. I could be talking a load of old pony of course, but I am just voicing my own personal view.
Back on topic now, very little change from yesterday re CV cases and deaths. A very slight uptick in cases again today, but still within the 2,000s and conversely, a very slight downturn in overall CV deaths today, whilst still remaining in the 300s, so today's changes are probably only negligible. Today's testing, though less than yesterday, still remains within the above 1,000 territory.
https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/21/nhs-doctor-enough-people-clapping
Ok...let's all have a disrespect campaign then? And that £33m raised can be pushed to social care.
The issues of the NHS will always be there and it's right to beware politicians trying to distract people but everyone else in a position to do nothing is showing some thanks and you are sick of them? :doh:
Now when we return to normal and the NHS is seriously backlogged I take it you want our patience and understanding? :biggrin:
Clapping fascism :roflmao:
I expect this whole crisis is what'll kill the NHS.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/may/21/500-doctors-tell-donald-trump-end-coronavirus-shut/ (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/may/21/500-doctors-tell-donald-trump-end-coronavirus-shut/)
Some doctors are saying to end the shutdown. See article above:
Pamplemousse
21-05-20, 20:03
https://youtu.be/uATMbGK__Tg
MyNameIsTerry
21-05-20, 21:50
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/may/21/500-doctors-tell-donald-trump-end-coronavirus-shut/ (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/may/21/500-doctors-tell-donald-trump-end-coronavirus-shut/)
Some doctors are saying to end the shutdown. See article above:
Some are over here saying it's time to get the economy going again. I think we have to be careful even with doctors who can oppose each other because of their political or professional allegiances and as we have seen many disagree with how the lockdowns were implemented. So are those docs reliable, N? Are their concerns in our best interests?
MyNameIsTerry
21-05-20, 21:56
I expect this whole crisis is what'll kill the NHS.
They are looking at it the wrong way. When it's all over and subsequent Tory and Labour governments (Labour are not always as supportive as they expect them to be) are slashing budgets or not giving them more they can remind them of all this. The public will back them.
Pissing on the public, and those rainbows weren't originally for the NHS anyway, won't help. The doctor could discuss underfunding without poo pooing support. It reminds me of the anti poppy brigade.
But it's The Guardian so pride is ones country will always be a dirty subject :winks:
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