View Full Version : I don't agree with lockdown easing.
WiredIncorrectly
10-05-20, 21:43
So it looks like Boris is set to get the country back to a functioning state. My only concern with this is it feels like the Government's own concerns are restoring the economy. The number of cases hasn't decreased as yesterdays figures would suggest. The Government had to send off 100,000 samples to the USA for testing so we don't know the true numbers of yesterday.
Which all seems a little convenient. My partner, and all the neighbors, were going on about how the numbers had dropped significantly. Yet they haven't.
I'm worried it may be too much, too soon. Anyone else share the same fears? No doubt my agoraphobia will go through the bloody roof again with fears over catching this now that most people are going to be thinking things are returning to normal.
Don’t agree I feel we need to get things opening again. I have been working as a key worker through out this crisis we have had to deal with the extra measures social distancing ect I believe others need to go back to work. Paying 80% isn’t viable. My frustration in Scotland is Sturgeon won’t lift the lockdown.
It's already too late. Too much economical damage has built up over the years and correction is doubtful.
Pamplemousse
10-05-20, 22:05
I'm with you on this, WiredIncorrectly.
Economies recover. The dead, however, do not.
I can't believe this is happening. I can't believe these people would willingly send us out to our deaths!
WiseMonkey
10-05-20, 23:42
I can't believe this is happening. I can't believe these people would willingly send us out to our deaths!
The issue is the govt. takes a chance ... and lives are expendable :weep:
The issue is the govt. takes a chance ... and lives are expendable :weep:
Yeah! That's the way it's always been! But I won't stand for it anymore! You know what - let's just ignore the easing! We stay as we are!
ankietyjoe
11-05-20, 00:02
Don’t agree I feel we need to get things opening again. I have been working as a key worker through out this crisis we have had to deal with the extra measures social distancing ect I believe others need to go back to work. Paying 80% isn’t viable. My frustration in Scotland is Sturgeon won’t lift the lockdown.
Good job on never being more wrong. Well done.
Social distancing is still in place but you can always remain in your homes if you prefer. You can't keep others locked up forever though. Life needs to continue.
Pamplemousse
11-05-20, 00:18
Yeah! That's the way it's always been! But I won't stand for it anymore! You know what - let's just ignore the easing! We stay as we are!
I intend to hold out for as long as is reasonably practicable.
Pamplemousse
11-05-20, 00:20
Social distancing is still in place but you can always remain in your homes if you prefer. You can't keep others locked up forever though. Life needs to continue.
Indeed. If you wish to die for some mass social experiment, feel free to do so.
Indeed. If you wish to die for some mass social experiment, feel free to do so.
What "mass social experiment"? Is that a conspiracy theory? I didn't think you believed in them, Pample.
And why should anyone die if you think social distancing works?
I don’t know how anyone can say it’s ending. They’ve basically said only go to work if you truly can’t work at home and you can go out for a walk more than once a day.
The whole “work from home if you can” thing has been the rule from the first day. Remember, you were only ever allowed to leave your house for essentials, one bit of exercise per day and work purposes. What’s changed from that? We’re allowed to exercise as much as we want, as far as I can see.
I don’t know how anyone can say it’s ending. They’ve basically said only go to work if you truly can’t work at home and you can go out for a walk more than once a day.
The whole “work from home if you can” thing has been the rule from the first day. Remember, you were only ever allowed to leave your house for essentials, one bit of exercise per day and work purposes. What’s changed from that? We’re allowed to exercise as much as we want, as far as I can see.
Social distancing measures are not being eased so what difference does it make whether people are at home or outside? I see people projecting their fears onto others and it is manifesting as rage and hate, unfortunately.
Do what is best for yourselves as you cannot control the behaviour of others.
ankietyjoe
11-05-20, 01:05
I don’t know how anyone can say it’s ending. They’ve basically said only go to work if you truly can’t work at home and you can go out for a walk more than once a day.
The whole “work from home if you can” thing has been the rule from the first day. Remember, you were only ever allowed to leave your house for essentials, one bit of exercise per day and work purposes. What’s changed from that? We’re allowed to exercise as much as we want, as far as I can see.
The new 'stay alert' image is green. It's a subliminal 'GO'.
There will be a LOT of people who now choose to believe that it's back to normal. You watch, this weekend will be mayhem everywhere.
WiseMonkey
11-05-20, 01:07
I don’t know how anyone can say it’s ending. They’ve basically said only go to work if you truly can’t work at home and you can go out for a walk more than once a day.
The whole “work from home if you can” thing has been the rule from the first day. Remember, you were only ever allowed to leave your house for essentials, one bit of exercise per day and work purposes. What’s changed from that? We’re allowed to exercise as much as we want, as far as I can see.
Yes, this is the same as our Alert level 3 and it does take a concerted effort from everyone, the same with social distancing. Actually more people will be working permanently online at home as a result of Covid19 and the lockdown. My fiance is one, he's been told to stay working from home plus he's saving $70 per week in petrol :)
At 4 pm today (Mon) our PM is making the decision on whether we drop down to Alert Level 2 on Thursday. It will be a live speech from the podium. I'll update on my NZ thread.
MyNameIsTerry
11-05-20, 04:54
I can't believe this is happening. I can't believe these people would willingly send us out to our deaths!
Do you think this might be an overreaction born out of emotional reasoning?
MyNameIsTerry
11-05-20, 04:58
I don’t know how anyone can say it’s ending. They’ve basically said only go to work if you truly can’t work at home and you can go out for a walk more than once a day.
The whole “work from home if you can” thing has been the rule from the first day. Remember, you were only ever allowed to leave your house for essentials, one bit of exercise per day and work purposes. What’s changed from that? We’re allowed to exercise as much as we want, as far as I can see.
It's very vague at the moment in my opinion. What happens in reality comes down to the implementation of it I.e. how do you get to work? The private sector now have to plan how to do that with social distancing which is tricky. Just because the government lift a restriction doesnt mean employers will bring all their staff in.
I want to see what companies intend to do.
I do think the sunbathing bit is crap though. Pointless and sends a signal you can do things and they cave in. A consequence of this might be other activities as long as you keep your distance as a protest thinking they will cave in again. Take the issue of a signal out and it's still pretty pointless but it might be more to do with stimulation of small businesses in the vicinity...get ready for more photos of large groups wandering along seafronts?
Social distancing measures are not being eased so what difference does it make whether people are at home or outside? I see people projecting their fears onto others and it is manifesting as rage and hate, unfortunately.
Do what is best for yourselves as you cannot control the behaviour of others.
Too true, KK. I'm going to be careful and try to avoid people as far as possible; there's not a lot else any of us can do really. We're all dealing with this entirely new situation in our different ways; I might not particularly like it if other people in my area seem either unaware of or unbothered by the pandemic, but that just means I'll steer a wide berth.
As anxiety sufferers, I really think we need to guard against our fear transmuting into anger or hatred; I've been there myself once or twice and I don't ever want to be that person again.
No one is forcing anyone out onto the streets to die. We make choices based on our own circumstances. People will inevitably flout the rules because there will always be idiots out there who think they know better and there will always be people who think they are qualified to dole out their opinions based on fear.
We all need to look out for ourselves and be sensible and some of us need to stop catastrophising.
No one is forcing anyone out onto the streets to die. We make choices based on our own circumstances. People will inevitably flout the rules because there will always be idiots out there who think they know better and there will always be people who think they are qualified to dole out their opinions based on fear.
We all need to look out for ourselves and be sensible and some of us need to stop catastrophising.
Exactly there has been no new cases in my area now so nobody is on the street to die people are just getting on with there business as usual. Do people want to hide away forever? Thousands of diseases are out there from TB to heart disease and we all have to go out and get on with life. Same goes for this virus Germany has opened up don’t see them going full lockdown again.
Honestly, Phil, I'd rather hide away a bit longer until people aren't dying, purely because it only takes one person making a bad judgement call for things to slide out of control again.
That said, I'm aware that I'm coming from a position of privilege here, and I'll allow that if I wasn't able to work from home I might be more enthusiastic to go back. Don't get me wrong, I really miss going to the shops and the pub, but I don't want to endanger myself, my friends or my family.
Pamplemousse
11-05-20, 10:42
Phil only thinks about himself, I thought you knew that.
https://twitter.com/Fashionicide/status/1259753600470994944
If people want to hide away longer so be it but ease the lockdown so people who want to work or business owners can salvage there business. Look at Germany things are open hair dressers, shops, football back. They are leading the way I notice they have masks and PPE ect to keep safe. If we want to get the UK no if we have to follow the lead. Being in Scotland Sturgeon will do anything to do different to the UK so she can blame Westminster. Sure we can wait for a vaccine but pubs will never open, cinemas will be gone and we will have nothing for the future generation. That’s what I can thinking of others we want to have jobs and businesses for the younger generation we seen the disaster the 2008 recession caused.
You are lucky you have a job a lot over there don’t,you have a home a lot don’t.You might get paid chicken shit a lot can’t even buy food,you have a mortgage well stiff bloody shit so do a lot of other people your not Robinson Crusoe,you seem too have money for your holidays so you are a lucky boy.
I lived a life where I had it all but now I live a simple life.
MRS STRESS ED
11-05-20, 11:24
This is very tough this one really as we do have to get the country back some how, however it needs more clarity because as usual people have been left asking questions, l work in care sector and believe me l want it to be eased back but slowly with definite ideas inplace, this is a very unclear set of guidelines and very confusing, in the real world it would be great if everyone stuck to the rules whatever they are :lac: but as we all know people won't this is the danger but for anyone who is worried don't go out simple only when its essential
best wishes
Germans are leading the way as usual, when will the British take to the streets? Only a mass uprising will put an end to this or we better get used to living in a open prison like the Palestinians.
Germany: Thousands of protesters slam isolation measures
https://m.dw.com/en/germany-thousands-of-protesters-slam-isolation-measures/a-53382891
Germans are leading the way as usual, when will the British take to the streets? Only a mass uprising will put an end to this or we better get used to living in a open prison like the Palestinians.
Germany: Thousands of protesters slam isolation measures
https://m.dw.com/en/germany-thousands-of-protesters-slam-isolation-measures/a-53382891
Will you be leading this mass uprising? What will your slogan be?
What a load of bullshit:mad:
Living like Palestinians geezus :wacko:
Will you be leading this mass uprising? What will your slogan be?
Boris Must Go
https://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/aAgzZYE_460s.jpg
ankietyjoe
11-05-20, 12:06
Well if anything, this thread proves that Darwin was right once again.
Selfish, arrogant, ignorant, morons.
Geez, it just keeps getting worse and worse!
WiseMonkey
11-05-20, 12:29
The countries to follow are Australian and New Zealand ... they are leading the way out of the Covid19 crisis and reopening their economies.
Please do not call members Trolls on the forum.
[B]Boris Must Go[/B
Catchy. You should lead the way. Take to the streets shouting your new slogan whilst dressed like a power ranger.
Pamplemousse
11-05-20, 13:31
Having cited Deutsche Welle, this is also on the site:
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-restrictions-eased-despite-climbing-infection-rate/a-53383279
Germany’s infection rate jumped for the second day in a row, the country’s center for disease control announced on Monday. The latest numbers from the Robert Koch Institute (RKI) came on the same morning lockdown measures were being significantly relaxed across the country. The RKI said that the coronavirus reproduction rate in Germany is now 1.13, up from 1.1 the day before and .83 on Friday.
So how do you square that with this, from https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/terms-and-conditions
Asking for a friend.
Apologies if I'm stepping on admin toes here, but there's a very big difference between discouraging a behaviour and making outright accusations of named individuals. I know I've been guilty of this in the past, but you're being disingenuous.
This thread is bringing out some nasty comments.
This is a mental health forum and no one here needs anger directed at them.
BE KIND or we will close this thread.
This thread is bringing out some nasty comments.
This is a mental health forum and no one here needs anger directed at them.
BE KIND or we will close this thread.
Absolutely, Elen.
I think projecting fear is the driving factor here, and this is after all a site full of anxious people, but that is NO excuse for the vitriol and nasty personal attacks :lac:
MRS STRESS ED
11-05-20, 13:50
This thread is bringing out some nasty comments.
This is a mental health forum and no one here needs anger directed at them.
BE KIND or we will close this thread.
Well said its about being sensible and safe not hurting each other there's enough of that outside
best wishes
Germans are leading the way as usual, when will the British take to the streets? Only a mass uprising will put an end to this or we better get used to living in a open prison like the Palestinians.
Germany: Thousands of protesters slam isolation measures
https://m.dw.com/en/germany-thousands-of-protesters-slam-isolation-measures/a-53382891
Mass protests and riots are the last thing we need in this country ATM, which IMO only breed even more fear and resentment.
As for the lockdown situation here I am still very much on the fence in the grand scheme of things, but what BoJo announced last night is still very minimal in terms of 'easing' of our lockdown and is very much a 'trial-and-error' thing, which I am all for exploring within reason, whilst still not going the whole hog and easing everything willy-nilly, which would still be most inappropriate and irresponsible right now.
And it does currently seem like certain factions in both Scotland and Wales (and no doubt also NI and the Channel Islands) are using this pandemic as a vehicle to fulfill their anti-England agendas. Not referring to anyone on here specifically but there is this person from Wales who keeps posting sneering, snide remarks about England's current role in this crisis on some of the CV-related threads on the Digital Spy forum, which I won't dare repeat on here.
Makes my blood boil.
Makes a mockery of the "We're In It Together" mantra, doesn't it?
It would be good if we were though. All political parties united, no backbiting just for the sake of it, no tribal warfare, no "competitions" between countries as to who has done "best" when no country is out of the woods yet..But that's not human nature.
Agreed, Pulisa. We're all human beings, life's too short to waste on hatred and one-upmanship.
MyNameIsTerry
11-05-20, 16:11
Mass protests and riots are the last thing we need in this country ATM, which IMO only breed even more fear and resentment.
As for the lockdown situation here I am still very much on the fence in the grand scheme of things, but what BoJo announced last night is still very minimal in terms of 'easing' of our lockdown and is very much a 'trial-and-error' thing, which I am all for exploring within reason, whilst still not going the whole hog and easing everything willy-nilly, which would still be most inappropriate and irresponsible right now.
And it does currently seem like certain factions in both Scotland and Wales (and no doubt also NI and the Channel Islands) are using this pandemic as a vehicle to fulfill their anti-England agendas. Not referring to anyone on here specifically but there is this person from Wales who keeps posting sneering, snide remarks about England's current role in this crisis on some of the CV-related threads on the Digital Spy forum, which I won't dare repeat on here.
Makes my blood boil.
Lencoboy, the Digital Spy politics board is a very unpleasant place. They are always fighting with each other. Even other members say on other board they avoid that one as attracts a lot of very unpleasant people looking for an argument
MyNameIsTerry
11-05-20, 16:12
Having cited Deutsche Welle, this is also on the site:
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-restrictions-eased-despite-climbing-infection-rate/a-53383279
The trouble is he also said it can't be assumed it's anything right now.
Lencoboy, the Digital Spy politics board is a very unpleasant place. They are always fighting with each other. Even other members say on other board they avoid that one as attracts a lot of very unpleasant people looking for an argument
I know full well and not only do I tend to avoid that board like the plague even in normal times, these people were spewing their venom on threads in the 'General Discussion' board. Another thing that's doing my head in there ATM is the amount of CV-related threads popping up that are asking 'When do you think so-and-so will reopen', etc? I mean, what's the point in even asking members of an online forum such questions when and where even only the govt are only able to keep waiting and seeing before doing risk assessments, etc, and then acting accordingly when and where considered appropriate?
It's not all hostility and venom all the time on that forum though, some of the threads and individual posts can be quite amusing and entertaining on many occasions. I guess in fairness there's good and bad on the vast majority of online forums, and the like, the world over.
WiredIncorrectly
11-05-20, 17:21
Makes a mockery of the "We're In It Together" mantra, doesn't it?
It would be good if we were though. All political parties united, no backbiting just for the sake of it, no tribal warfare, no "competitions" between countries as to who has done "best" when no country is out of the woods yet..But that's not human nature.
You're a wise owl Pulsia. Completely agree with you.
Thanks for leaving out the "old" re owl, James!:D
MyNameIsTerry
11-05-20, 21:32
Phil, further guidance that clarifies the use of masks:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/government-says-children-two-years-22010181.amp?utm_source=upday
You will need to see what Sturgeon says about it. Probably everyone has to wrap a saltire around their faces.
whispershadow
11-05-20, 22:24
What I would really like to see is them giving the okay for vets to fully reopen again. At the moment they are only allowed to deal with emergencies, they cant even do routine stuff.
It's interesting.... many threads including this one have morphed from mostly fear, to fear and politics. Everyone has their opinion and beliefs just as we all have our ways of coping with it.
We really do have a choice. The countries will be opening up again. We truly have no idea what's going to happen concerning the virus, our health or the economy. We're all dealing with different scenarios concerning that. I'm fortunate that I'm in essential services and the company truly is 100% on board with the CDC recommendations. Regardless, its stressful. Being in the high risk group and having to deal with customers (and fellow employees) that ignore the protocols, especially those that do it for political reasons or believe the conspiracy theories is maddening!
While the state I live in does not "require" we wear masks, it is recommended. The company said they "expect" us to wear them in our interactions and practice proper social distancing. We have co-workers from another location at our location due to the fact they were shut down for now. One of those co-workers has blatantly refused to wear a mask or follow the guidelines. He's one of those "They can't tell me what to do... I'm a 'Merican!" kind of guys. He sits at the desk next to me and it drives me bonkers! Well... Today, corporate issued a statement that they will "require" all regional employees to wear masks. We either wear a mask and follow the guidelines or stay home and use PTO. Looks like he's going to use his PTO and I won't have to deal with him :D
Anyway... if you can afford to do so, no one is making you go back to work or do anything else really. We really have no choice as the decision has been made for us. We do have a choice in how we handle it. For me, I'm wearing my mask, washing my hands and following the guidelines. That all I really have control over. The same goes for everyone. Do what you feel is best for you. This is survival of the fittest both physically and mentally.
Positive thoughts
WiseMonkey
12-05-20, 00:05
Yes, lots of differing views and information about the use of masks.
We're (in NZ) just coming out of lockdown and it's not recommended for the general populace to wear masks. A surgical mask needs changing every 3 hours because of the moisture it gathers so could create more problems than it's worth. A sick person should stay home but wear a mask if they're going to the Dr's etc. All healthcare workers will be wearing masks and also hairdressers and beauty therapists who come into close contact with peoples heads/faces.
Social distancing and hand washing are the 2 procedures most recommended by our health officials.
MyNameIsTerry
12-05-20, 04:18
What I would really like to see is them giving the okay for vets to fully reopen again. At the moment they are only allowed to deal with emergencies, they cant even do routine stuff.
Yeah, my neighbours agree with you, Whisper. Their old cat died earlier in the year, they always have rescue cats, but they heard of someone who couldn't keep theirs so took her on. The only problem is she needs to be spayed. They can't find anyone including the charities who will do it. One charity have said they will take the kittens if it happens.
So they are having to keep an eye on her and she has aroused the attention of one male across the streets. He was chasing her all over a few nights ago :roflmao:
Our vet is still giving us the medications our dog needs. They book people in and there is a cage outside where the animals are transferred.
MyNameIsTerry
12-05-20, 04:23
Yes, lots of differing views and information about the use of masks.
We're (in NZ) just coming out of lockdown and it's not recommended for the general populace to wear masks. A surgical mask needs changing every 3 hours because of the moisture it gathers so could create more problems than it's worth. A sick person should stay home but wear a mask if they're going to the Dr's etc. All healthcare workers will be wearing masks and also hairdressers and beauty therapists who come into close contact with peoples heads/faces.
Social distancing and hand washing are the 2 procedures most recommended by our health officials.
Here they are saying it is not required. They are simply saying if you wish to you can wear a face covering. They have stated not PPE as they need reserving for those who need them. Also anyone with a condition that may be exacerbated by a covering his exempt with respiratory conditions as an example.
No doubt we will hear of some firms who go over the top and unions kicking off. I can think of past employers who would have reacted like that.
I don't wear mask outside. but if I need to go in somewhere to buy something I just put the mask on because I don't want any hassles. So I just go with the flow.
In the United States 150,000 people are diagnosed with cancer each month. Those people have been unable to get to a doctor to get their proper diagnosis, which of course time is of the essence for them. And it's not only cancer patients but many patients who are on hold right now.
Eventually and probably sooner rather than later we are going to have to get people back to work even if there is some risk involved because the risk of not doing anything to get the economy going, which is vital to a healthy society, outweighs the risk of getting coronavirus.
The ills of a totally destroyed economy are incalculable.
N.
I heard a clip this morning of Dr. Birx, who is a top doctor on the national coronavirus task force, say that they are listing deaths of people who had coronavirus as coronavirus deaths even if they didn't die of the coronavirus. So that is to say if somebody died of a heart attack and were asymptomatic of covid 19 and actually had the virus then it is listed as a coronavirus death. That's why you really can't believe any of these statistics.
I heard a clip this morning of Dr. Birx, who is a top doctor on the national coronavirus task force, say that they are listing deaths of people who had coronavirus as coronavirus deaths even if they didn't die of the coronavirus. So that is to say if somebody died of a heart attack and we're asymptomatic of covid 19 and actually had the virus then it is listed as a coronavirus death. That's why you really can't believe any of these statistics.
Lets say you're correct and a person has a heart attack, goes to the hospital, tests positive for the virus and dies. How many of the 80+K who died so far in the US are in that category? What about cancer patients? Their bodies are already compromised by cancer and weakened immune systems due to treatment. So if one contracts the virus, there's a strong chance that will be the catalyst that puts them over the edge. Was it the cancer or the virus that killed them? If you have pre-existing conditions, you're on precarious ground as it is. I know... I'm one of them! If I were to contract the virus, my odds suck! If a person with health issues gets the virus and dies, its the virus that was the catalyst and cause. To claim you can't believe "any" of the statistics because of that is frankly ludicrous.
Anyway.... as I said. The decision has been made. Time will tell for all of us regardless of statistics.
Positive thoughts
Lets say you're correct and a person has a heart attack, goes to the hospital, tests positive for the virus and dies. How many of the 80+K who died so far in the US are in that category? What about cancer patients? Their bodies are already compromised by cancer and weakened immune systems due to treatment. So if one contracts the virus, there's a strong chance that will be the catalyst that puts them over the edge. Was it the cancer or the virus that killed them? If you have pre-existing conditions, you're on precarious ground as it is. I know... I'm one of them! If I were to contract the virus, my odds suck! If a person with health issues gets the virus and dies, its the virus that was the catalyst and cause. To claim you can't believe "any" of the statistics because of that is frankly ludicrous.
Anyway.... as I said. The decision has been made. Time will tell for all of us regardless of statistics.
Positive thoughts
Due to the CV "crisis", the guidance for completing death certs has been altered (in many countries apparently). A patient who dies from a long-term chronic disease or condition and tests positive for CV, dies with the virus, not necessarily of it. Let's take someone with advanced stage AIDS. They die of complications due to a highly compromised immune system. The common flu could kill them. Yet we don't record cause of death as "influenza" - although that can be added as a contributing factor. So when a cancer patient dies, and either tested positive for CV or had "symptoms" of CV, the primary cause of death should be recorded as "carcinoma of...", not CV, although it could have been a contributing factor and listed as such.
Also, without a postmortem and/or further testing, like ascertaining the viral load in the patient, you simply CANNOT attribute the cause of death to any virus. We all have virions/bacteria within our bodies and the test used to "diagnose" CV (RT-PCR test) cannot determine the viral load threshold - and in many cases, due to amplification cycles, has an 80% false positive result.
So, no, I wouldn't trust these stats either. It has already been established by many virologists that the mortality rate of the CV is likely to be 0.1-2%, which would be in keeping with other coronavirus strains (like SARS and the common flu).
I personally think the mortality rate for the virus is miniscule. I think there are quite literally upwards of fifty to a hundred million people in the United States that have been infected. Most have recovered without issue in fact the vast majority of them. The virus is hitting nursing homes hard. Why should that be those people aren't out walking around anywhere. It means millions that have visited nursing homes or deliveries or people that work there have brought the virus in.
N.
Another thing I heard earlier today was in Ohio they have traced five cases back to January. I myself was sick in late January with a fever chills a nasty headache and slight nausea. A friend of mine has a sister-in-law, whose a nurse, that just got over covid-19 and had the exact same symptoms that I had. I will not be surprised if there are eventually confirmed cases of covid-19 dating back to 2019.
I will not be surprised if there are eventually confirmed cases of covid-19 dating back to 2019.
It does date back to 2019, which is why they named it COVID-19. I had "symptoms" in Dec so it must have been CV :lac:
I personally think the mortality rate for the virus is miniscule.
How... is a 6% death rate... minuscule?
It's not 6%
Sorry KK... You are right. I stand corrected. I meant in the United States.
You know us Americans KK... We're so provincial.
I've been around long enough to remember covid-69!😀
I've been around long enough to remember covid-69!😀
Holy Poo! Did they have a lockdown then too? :ohmy:
The only thing that was locked down then was the poo in my diapers!
'69 had a great Summer though...
How is your Dad, N?
Hi Pulisa. Thanks for asking.❤️
Well he's asymptomatic for covid as of yesterday... which is good of course. However he's not eating much at all. He's taking in fluids though. He may be shutting himself down we don't know yet. Of course the worst part is we can't go see him. Poor guy. they have told me though three or four times over the last year that he's in decline and not eating well and he's bounced right back. But someday he won't bounce back I'm aware of that.
I'm wondering now though If he was tested with a swab up the nose or he was simply tested for the antibodies. I'm going to try to find that out today. Because if he was just tested for the antibodies and was found to have them then he may have had the virus 8 weeks ago.
You don't think of all the questions to ask right away they just come to you as you ponder on everything. Anyway thanks again for checking in I can't tell you how much it means to me... That goes for everyone else as well.
N.
It would be unlikely for him to have been tested for antibodies in a medical setting, they need to know what they’re dealing with so they would surely be assessing what he currently has.
Maybe Gary... But a nursing home is a different animal than a hospital. my wife tells me that every one of her patients in the hospital are on hydroxychloroquine and yet nobody in the nursing home is. I question why.
Maybe Gary... But a nursing home is a different animal than a hospital. my wife tells me that every one of her patients in the hospital are on hydroxychloroquine and yet nobody in the nursing home is. I question why.
I read about this drug being a potential treatment but it all went quiet after Trump mentioned "trials" :shrug:
All the best to him, Noi.
I read about this drug being a potential treatment but it all went quiet after Trump mentioned "trials" :shrug:
All the best to him, Noi.https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2012410
All the best to your dad, Noivous.
Scary times for the elderly, the lockdown policy we have in the UK is basically a death sentence for them.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2012410
Interesting that Bill Gates is not funding clinical trials into this drug instead of throwing his money at vaccines. But then, there isn't money to be made with an old drug like this, whereas vaccines will sell for billions.
MyNameIsTerry
12-05-20, 21:40
I've been around long enough to remember covid-69!😀
Wasn't that a summer bug causing too much sexual activity and had to be treated through smoking joints? :winks:
MyNameIsTerry
12-05-20, 21:46
All the best to you and your dad, N. He obviously keeps fighting with bouncing back all those times so he can keep doing it.
How is he mood wise? Is he doing ok? I think the elderly need their spirits keeping up to will them on in bleak times. :hugs:
All the best to your dad, Noivous.
Scary times for the elderly, the lockdown policy we have in the UK is basically a death sentence for them.
How so?
You do know we have older people who will read that comment and be upset?
Interesting that Bill Gates is not funding clinical trials into this drug instead of throwing his money at vaccines. But then, there isn't money to be made with an old drug like this, whereas vaccines will sell for billions.Now that's something Dr John Campbell noticed about hydroxychloroquine and he's not a CT. Ditto vitamin D https://www.youtube.com/user/Campbellteaching
Reason why he recommends vitamin D supplements https://campbellteaching.co.uk/covid19/
Note - the paper from NEMJ found no noticeable efficacy for hydroxychloroquine in the treatment of COVID-19, which Dr Campbell was addressing in his video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XCP1WzOY6M&t=620s
WiseMonkey
12-05-20, 23:40
As I understand it Hydroxychloroquine is an anti-malarial but also an immmuno-suppressant drug. It's often the first line of treatment for those who have autoimmune conditions. Plaquenil is brand used in NZ. It's not a quick fix, it works slowly and has a cumulative effect so doesn't reach it's full effectiveness till between 1-3 months and sometimes up to 1 year. So flooding someone system with mega doses of this drug isn't going to do much at all.
Personally I think it's a diversion tactic.
Well I can tell you that my wife is a very experienced respiratory therapist in a very large hospital. They have 5 covid units at her hospital. Respiratory therapists handle ventilators. They handle intubations and extubations. Assist in tracheostomies... Among other things. So they are on the very front lines of this covid-19 virus. She is usually assigned to a covid-19 unit and dealing with 12 to 15 patients all on ventilators. I asked her last week if any of her patients were taking hydroxychloroquine and she said yes all of them. It's not a diversion tactic.
BTW...a diversion from what?
MyNameIsTerry
13-05-20, 05:06
Now that's something Dr John Campbell noticed about hydroxychloroquine and he's not a CT. Ditto vitamin D https://www.youtube.com/user/Campbellteaching
Reason why he recommends vitamin D supplements https://campbellteaching.co.uk/covid19/
Note - the paper from NEMJ found no noticeable efficacy for hydroxychloroquine in the treatment of COVID-19, which Dr Campbell was addressing in his video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XCP1WzOY6M&t=620s
I hope he also talks about vitamin K if he gets into larger doses. Otherwise it causes calcium deposits that can be harmful to health.
There are many D3 supplements out there that go beyond that threshold where you have to apply a ratio to K and it can be hard to find information about it. Plus not all K sources are equal, some pass through the body very fast and don't provide enough coverage.
Some good threads on here about from the days Marie, the vitamin queen (SADNoMore) was here.
MyNameIsTerry
13-05-20, 05:08
How so?
You do know we have older people who will read that comment and be upset?
I'm assuming he means declining physical and mental health due to being stuck inside considering only days ago he was telling us a mass protest is needed to end the lockdown before we become another Palestine :winks:
I'm assuming he means declining physical and mental health due to being stuck inside considering only days ago he was telling us a mass protest is needed to end the lockdown before we become another Palestine :winks:
Quite!
At least be consistent with your prophecies, Hollow?
How so?
You do know we have older people who will read that comment and be upset?
It's just reality. This is psychological warfare on a scale we've never seen before and older people are most vulnerable to it. They won't be allowed to live a normal life until the "alert level" reaches 1 which is only possible when the fake vaccine comes out. Some of these people supposedly fought for our "freedom" and now they've been imprisoned for their trouble. The way Tom Moore is being paraded around is sickening, as Kissinger said, "military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy".
It's just reality. This is psychological warfare on a scale we've never seen before and older people are most vulnerable to it. They won't be allowed to live a normal life until the "alert level" reaches 1 which is only possible when the fake vaccine comes out. Some of these people supposedly fought for our "freedom" and now they've been imprisoned for their trouble. The way Tom Moore is being paraded around is sickening, as Kissinger said, "military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy".
You keep going off on these big tangents about psychological warfare and fake vaccines but you’ve yet to even try to explain what it is about this virus that makes it fake.
Please, try to make me understand. How could a virus be faked? How do you get literally hundreds of thousands of scientists and medically trained people to go along with it? How do you create so many excess deaths? How do you manage to get so many nations, some of which utterly despise each other, to collude like this?
For your theories on fake vaccines and psychological warfare to make any sense, you need to first take a stab at proving your original claim of a hoax virus. You can’t just keep making these claims, throwing in a sarcastic meme or random quote and expecting that to be classed as proof.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Your claims are extraordinary, let’s see this evidence. If it’s as obvious as you say it is, you should have no difficulty pointing it out.
You keep going off on these big tangents about psychological warfare and fake vaccines but you’ve yet to even try to explain what it is about this virus that makes it fake.
Please, try to make me understand. How could a virus be faked? How do you get literally hundreds of thousands of scientists and medically trained people to go along with it? How do you create so many excess deaths? How do you manage to get so many nations, some of which utterly despise each other, to collude like this?
For your theories on fake vaccines and psychological warfare to make any sense, you need to first take a stab at proving your original claim of a hoax virus. You can’t just keep making these claims, throwing in a sarcastic meme or random quote and expecting that to be classed as proof.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Your claims are extraordinary, let’s see this evidence. If it’s as obvious as you say it is, you should have no difficulty pointing it out.
You have been given evidence but you either completely ignore it or brush it aside by saying "the numbers are a bit fuzzy". That's a massive cop out since the whole thing is being driven by data which is fraudulent.
Deaths are being mis-labelled as Covid-19 when people who die already have one or more serious underlying health conditions. Death certificates are being manipulated. That's where the died "with" and died "of" coronavirus deception comes into play. Some are too afraid to go to the hospital in life and death situations, life-saving treatments are being cancelled. Not to mention the deaths being caused by stress due to the lockdown. The symptoms for coronavirus can be anything from a cough to a coma so that's how they're generating the number of cases. The tests are completely unreliable with up to 80 percent false positives. So, as it happens, it's pretty easy to fake a virus.
"How do you manage to get so many nations, some of which utterly despise each other, to collude like this?"
Don't you think that's pretty suspicious in itself? The WHO is bypassing governments in these countries and driving their policies. In return, they get huge loans from the likes of IMF and the Gates foundation. Corrupt politicians in these countries are making a killing right now. There are so many conflicts of interest when the billionaire Bill Gates is bankrolling organisations like the WHO and Imperial College London.
Bill Gates and his coronavirus conflicts of interest
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/2/bill-gates-and-his-coronavirus-conflicts-of-intere/
On March 11, one day after Business Insider reported how Gates had been pushing for a WHO declaration of pandemic on the coronavirus — one day after Gates announced the infusion of millions of dollars into a WHO-partnered venture called COVID-19 Therapeutics Accelerator, that dangled the prospect of putting more regulatory powers into the hands of the global elitists — one day after that, WHO’s director-general made an interesting announcement.
On March 11, at a press conference on the coronavirus, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said this: “We have therefore made the assessment that COVID-19 can be characterized as a pandemic.”
I think you're onto something with this one Hollow. there is no doubt that the covid-19 deaths are being inflated. Even Dr. Birx admitted that. She's a top doctor on the national task force for coronavirus.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/birx-says-government-is-classifying-all-deaths-of-patients-with-coronavirus-as-covid-19-deaths-regardless-of-cause
You haven’t answered the question. The question was, how do you fake a virus? It is quite a difference to say that the numbers aren’t 100% accurate and saying that the virus simply doesn’t exist. Again, you have stated that you think this virus is fake. That’s not to mention that you’re explaining it away with numbers that you’ve pulled out of thin air.
Tests are giving false positives at 80% are they? Says who? How do you know what’s determining deaths “from” and “with”? How can you put that across the board globally? Who is manipulating death certificates? These are all empty claims that, even if they were true, STILL wouldn’t back up the claim that the virus is fake.
As for the WHO bypassing governments, you must be joking right? The US government has withdrawn funding to the WHO for goodness sake! The government in the 4 nations of the UK don’t even agree on one policy. What about nations like Sweden who have literally avoided any such lockdowns? Again, just another empty statement that doesn’t match up with what we see.
As for this WHO stuff, it wouldn’t at all surprise me if there was indeed someone calling the shots by the way of large funding. I don’t know if that’s even a secret, is it? I mean, look at the very public reports of the WHO failures due to pandering to China. Look at the withdrawal of US funding when they believed their voice wasn’t heard. Would it surprise me if they buckled a bit to the words of their backers? No.
Would you say that they’re wrong about it being a pandemic, regardless of timing? Again, you’ll need to prove the virus doesn’t exist for that to be the case. If you can’t prove that the virus is fake, then you’re basically trying to add bricks to a building that’s already fallen apart at the foundations.
Very simple. How do you literally fake a virus? How do you get hundreds of thousands of scientists and doctors worldwide to go along with it?
I think you're onto something with this one Hollow. there is no doubt that the covid-19 deaths are being inflated. Even Dr. Birx admitted that. She's a top doctor on the national task force for coronavirus.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/birx-says-government-is-classifying-all-deaths-of-patients-with-coronavirus-as-covid-19-deaths-regardless-of-cause
I think that article explains exactly what I’ve been saying all along. The numbers require better attention but there’s always going to be mix ups whilst trying to do that smack bang in the middle of the pandemic.
There isn’t even a cover up involved here. When deaths are announced in the UK, they literally say “people who have died after testing positive for coronavirus.” They do not say “died of coronavirus.”
If you listen to any statistician, they all agree that the true number will be excess deaths in accordance with an average year.
That’s the point. Literally everyone is saying that the numbers are not going to be 100% accurate but there is very good reason for that. It’s a problem that’s been pointed out many times. I don’t see the conspiracy and secrecy involved when it’s very publicly being pointed out.
Remember there are still quite a few unknowns concerning this virus, and it still remains a huge learning curve for the powers that be and scientists the world over, though quite a bit more is known now compared to a month or two ago.
We can still all keep spewing out venom, angst and animosity, and keep playing the 'blame game' till we're blue in the face, but it still won't solve any of the issues we currently face.
Whilst I agree that many politicians worldwide were seemingly caught napping during the initial onset of this global pandemic (including our PM), we still need to give them a chance in sorting out this chaos, whether we like them or loathe them, and also give those who are painstakingly working flat out to come up with some kind of cure, be it vaccines or other forms of medication, a chance too before cynically dismissing them and saying 'it'll never work', etc. And this virus definitely hasn't been faked.
Please try and treat each other with kindness, courtesy and respect. And everywhere, not just on here.
That's why when I do my own math in regard to the mortality rate I use the entire population of the world and then I use covid-19 stated deaths, which many of them aren't from covid-19 but let's not split hairs. That's the actual mortality rate no?
MyNameIsTerry
13-05-20, 15:47
That's why when I do my own math in regard to the mortality rate I use the entire population of the world and then I use covid-19 stated deaths, which many of them aren't from covid-19 but let's not split hairs. That's the actual mortality rate no?
Yes, but what Hollow is claiming is that every doctor everywhere is colluding to tell us this virus exists when it doesn't. So that includes your other half.
And every government including ones that don't work together the rest of the time.
It's nonsense. And despite him saying he has provided evidence, just like his other claims, he hasn't.
MyNameIsTerry
13-05-20, 15:51
I think you're onto something with this one Hollow. there is no doubt that the covid-19 deaths are being inflated. Even Dr. Birx admitted that. She's a top doctor on the national task force for coronavirus.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/birx-says-government-is-classifying-all-deaths-of-patients-with-coronavirus-as-covid-19-deaths-regardless-of-cause
I think Germany are one doing things properly by not counting all deaths as related. Maybe that explains why their rates are much lower?
Gary has been disputing these numbers all the way from what I've seen. He thinks the same as you that they are too high due to this counting of anyone with it dying from it. But Hollow believes someone is manipulate g death certificates and that this virus never existed.
MyNameIsTerry
13-05-20, 15:57
It's just reality. This is psychological warfare on a scale we've never seen before and older people are most vulnerable to it. They won't be allowed to live a normal life until the "alert level" reaches 1 which is only possible when the fake vaccine comes out. Some of these people supposedly fought for our "freedom" and now they've been imprisoned for their trouble. The way Tom Moore is being paraded around is sickening, as Kissinger said, "military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy".
That doesn't answer the question. In what way is it a death sentence for the elderly? Explain the reality you claim.
Oh.
Well I believe of course the virus exists mainly because of my wife having a front-row seat to the whole thing. But there's no doubt that there is a lot of co-opting going for various reasons by different entities.
MyNameIsTerry
13-05-20, 16:06
The BBC page is currently talking about this at the top:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274.com
In the post code search if I look at my city it says 13% and for the county 23%. That's obviously far too high.
I think Germany are one doing things properly by not counting all deaths as related. Maybe that explains why their rates are much lower?
Gary has been disputing these numbers all the way from what I've seen. He thinks the same as you that they are too high due to this counting of anyone with it dying from it. But Hollow believes someone is manipulate g death certificates and that this virus never existed.
You're probably right in the sense that there have been a lot of people dying in spite of CV (e.g, due to the lack of spare capacity within the NHS to treat other potentially life-threatening ailments), rather than directly from it, and obviously adding those to the official CV death stats artificially inflates them.
Then again, the authorities probably would probably have come under fire just the same had they just counted the deaths directly attributed to CV, and been accused of under-counting and playing down the stats.
Basically damned if do, damned if don't.
You're probably right Lenso. they would rather scare the crap out of everyone and have them stay in then to under sell it and have everybody out.
But by underselling it I mean telling the truthful numbers... Which is what they should be doing in my opinion. Because I believe there is great damage being done to the entire world right now and it's based on fear.
The actual mortality rate for covid 19 is:
287/65000ths of 1%
But by underselling it I mean telling the truthful numbers... Which is what they should be doing in my opinion. Because I believe there is great damage being done to the entire world right now and it's based on fear.
The only way to truly gauge the exact degree of infection and therefore death rates would be to diagnose every past and present case, which is impossible at this moment.
You can get a fairly accurate estimate by antibody testing a percentage of a particular population, but even that throws up challenges. It’s also difficult to carry out autopsies on people who are probably still infectious.
So, in the absence of all of these things, all they can do is tell us people have died after testing positive. They then have to deduce a death rate using the only number they have, which is known cases.
There is no conspiracy here, it’s merely a difficulty in gathering real time data due to the circumstances involved. In time those numbers will become more accurate, but right now the numbers are being produced using the only tools available. If the conspiracy crew have a better way of gathering data, I’m sure we would all listen.
But by underselling it I mean telling the truthful numbers... Which is what they should be doing in my opinion. Because I believe there is great damage being done to the entire world right now and it's based on fear.
A typical catch-22 situation, as per what Gary explained above.
It's just reality. This is psychological warfare on a scale we've never seen before and older people are most vulnerable to it. They won't be allowed to live a normal life until the "alert level" reaches 1 which is only possible when the fake vaccine comes out. Some of these people supposedly fought for our "freedom" and now they've been imprisoned for their trouble. The way Tom Moore is being paraded around is sickening, as Kissinger said, "military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy".
It’s not reality, it’s your opinion. It’s not psychological warfare, it’s science.
Those who fought for our freedom have likely been through much worse and would rather stay safe.
This is all your opinion Hollow. Not facts or truth.
I bet you think Katie Hopkins makes a lot of sense too.
I bet you think Katie Hopkins makes a lot of sense too.
No way :roflmao:
Katie Hopkins is a professional agitator and a complete shill. She's very likely working for MI5/6 along with the likes of Anjem Chaudhary, Tommy Robinson etc.
MyNameIsTerry
13-05-20, 21:04
No way :roflmao:
Katie Hopkins is a professional agitator and a complete shill. She's very likely working for MI5/6 along with the likes of Anjem Chaudhary, Tommy Robinson etc.
Will you be answering the question?
MyNameIsTerry
13-05-20, 21:15
You're probably right in the sense that there have been a lot of people dying in spite of CV (e.g, due to the lack of spare capacity within the NHS to treat other potentially life-threatening ailments), rather than directly from it, and obviously adding those to the official CV death stats artificially inflates them.
Then again, the authorities probably would probably have come under fire just the same had they just counted the deaths directly attributed to CV, and been accused of under-counting and playing down the stats.
Basically damned if do, damned if don't.
The ONS figures are even higher. The above expected death rates per season even higher still. But we've already learned a lesson with the ONS when they merely changed their flu counting methodology and the media went mad 50k extra deaths from flu when the ONS were doing the same we are debating now
Are they counting all deaths because they do that with the flu? If we counted as Germany have would we be so bad? If we drop back down the leader board it will give us something to be positive about rather than being told we are the worst.
MyNameIsTerry
13-05-20, 21:21
It’s not reality, it’s your opinion. It’s not psychological warfare, it’s science.
Those who fought for our freedom have likely been through much worse and would rather stay safe.
This is all your opinion Hollow. Not facts or truth.
I bet you think Katie Hopkins makes a lot of sense too.
Good luck, Scass. You are asking for evidence from the guy that thinks Malala shot herself in the head for her cause :doh:
... Seriously, Terry? Wow.
Terry is outright lying about things I've said or taking them completely out of context. Pretty sad to see that from someone who is supposed to be a "senior" member.
Terry is outright lying about things I've said or taking them completely out of context. Pretty sad to see that from someone who is supposed to be a "senior" member.
Yeah, I mean making outrageous and wacky claims is something you generally shy away from.
He’s got you all wrong.
MyNameIsTerry
13-05-20, 21:51
... Seriously, Terry? Wow.
Make what you will of this, Blue.
Trump deserves the Nobel peace prize since he's been a very loyal puppet of the military industrial complex just like the evil Henry Kissinger. Kissinger should have died a long time ago but is being artificially kept alive with organs stolen from murdered Palestinians. The Nobel prize was also given to Malala Yousafzai, a mind-controlled slave of the Oligarchs. Her whole life is a fraud, carefully orchestrated by her handler/father who has whored her out to satan.
Attack on Malala was staged, claims PTI MNA
https://tribune.com.pk/story/1414861/pti-mna-musarrat-ahmad-zeb-claims-attack-malala-staged/
“I was approached for the same drama but refused as I was not interested in seeking asylum in another country,” she told The Express Tribune.
She alleged that those who had conducted Yousafzai’s medical examination after the attack were all allotted plots by the government.
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/78128000/jpg/_78128086_016332936-1.jpg
Oh and Hollow, senior member means nothing since it's all based on how many posts you make.
Sorry, Hollow, but I think you maybe have bigger problems than can be helped by a bunch of well-meaning Internet strangers.
More likely he deserves the Nobel WAR Prize, but that's just me.
venusbluejeans
13-05-20, 22:21
Seriously not in the mood to deal with you all picking at each other this evening.
I am going to close the thread for now as you have been warned by Elen on here as well about picking at each other.
Come on all of you, play nice.
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