View Full Version : Now I'm Under Lockdown Due to Protests and Looting
Anyone else?
First it was CV, now it's protests and looting. During the day, the protests have all been peaceful. But as soon as the sun starts to go down, it's been turning into complete anarchy with lots of looting. I don't need to leave the house, and i'm not near any shopping centers, so I feel safe...but it's the fact that I can't leave that is super creepy.
MyNameIsTerry
01-06-20, 04:29
Stay safe, Vee. I hope it all ends soon.
Yep, the night will bring out the criminals who can operate behind the safety of a crowd reducing the number of patrolling cops. Some here refer to these things as a good time to grab a new TV...literally after the initial deposit of a house brick. :winks:
Our protests seem confined to London, the home of protesters. I won't see this in my city, such things are rare here. Maybe Birmingham will see some but they won't attract much press so police will be less afraid to do anything as the Met always seem to be.
I hope they keep it peaceful where you are. If it's like over here there is a fringe of the problem protesters and most are happy just to be heard.
Right now, sitting at home in my living room, it's just a bunch of police sirens and a bunch of stupid people using the opportunity of the police being tied up to light off illegal fireworks. I don't know if you're been to southern California (socal) but basically, all of our cities border each other, like the different neighborhoods London border each other. It's not so bad in my city. The next city over though, I'm watching on the news, it's nuts there. There's just crowds of masked people going from store to store to store breaking in and running out with stuff until the cops can show up.
This really is not fun for my GAD :/
Oh, the National Guard has showed up now. Helicopters out now. I hope it stops the dumba$$es with the fireworks.
WiseMonkey
01-06-20, 05:57
Just reiterating Terry's post, stay safe x It's the last thing the county wanted when trying to cope with Covid19.
The policing system needs to be overhauled (either in the state of Minnesota/and other states) across USA. The issue is that the US have never addressed their cultural inequalities and this is so much more apparent in some states than others. Presidents like DT rark things up even more.
ps. Just seen in the Herald that there are peaceful protests in some cities in NZ in relation to the killing in US.
The issue is that the US have never addressed their cultural inequalities and this is so much more apparent in some states than others. Presidents like DT rark things up even more.
It's that. Many don't want to acknowledge that white privilege exists and that darker skin is unfortunately associated with crime and violence. It's this unconscious bias that seems to be deeply embedded in our culture. It's not just a police officer thing. When people lie about a crime they've committed, who do they say did it? An unidentified black man. When people see a black person walk through a non-black neighborhood, they get nervous. People who aren't black are scared to drive in mostly-black neighborhoods. Even within minority cultures here, the people with darker skin are teased or made fun of. Even other black people tease their friends and relatives with darker skin. I have family members who do it. (Even though they make fun of me for my light skin. You can't win!). It just seems so pervasive, but so many don't want to acknowledge it.
How are things now, Vee? It must be terrifying for you but you are safe indoors and hopefully by now the National Guard will have put a stop to the worst of it?
I’m sorry you’re in the middle of it, must be very scary.
I understand how this happens, and I suppose things are worse because the people who have started looting and damaging property have been cooped up and are now giddy with it.
I remember when we had a few days of riots and looting some years ago over the death of Mark Duggan. It was terrifying for a few days but over soon enough.
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I'm fortunate living in a rural area as we've escaped the large numbers of COVID-19 cases as well as the protests. My son is in Chicago and while there are large demonstrations, violence and looting going on, he lives away from the hot spots. The same with my wife's son and he's in Minneapolis where this all started. They hear the sirens and helicopters but are safe for the moment. No doubt that's very stressful and the rhetoric from leadership is not helping the situation.
If its stressful for those without anxiety, I can only imagine what its like for sufferers. Stay safe Antsy!
Positive thoughts
Well, in my city, once the Guard rolled through, everything calmed down. The dumba$$es stopped the fireworks. In the city next door, they finally got them out of there about a half hour later. My city's people respected the curfew, thank G-d, and no looting in my city. All the looting was in the city next door. It quieted down and I was able to get to sleep around midnight. There was a police chase on the freeway as I was going to bed, but I didn't stay up to watch it.
Well, I take it back. Our courthouse was tagged up last night and had windows broken. Luckily, no looting!
No doubt that's very stressful and the rhetoric from leadership is not helping the situation.
If its stressful for those without anxiety, I can only imagine what its like for sufferers. Stay safe Antsy!
Positive thoughts
Isn't that the truth? It shows you just how much certain leaders are alienated from their population and don't have a clue.
Update: Day #3
So LA county is under a curfew from 6 pm on, except for Santa Monica which had a 1:30 pm curfew. Orange county is under curfew depending on the city. My city has a 10 pm curfew, which hasn't arrived yet (it's 8:45 pm), but so far so good in my city. There are some illegal fireworks being shot off, but nothing like last night. The city next door (where they had the looting last night) is under a 5 pm curfew. Lot of people came out with brooms and trash cans to help the shop owners clean up where the looters destroyed. That was really touching to see. Unfortunately, most of the stores that got looted were small "mom and pop" shops. They were hit by CV, and now they've been hit by this.
There was looting in Hollywood today, but the police were able to get control of it much easier than the looting last night. We're now on the third police pursuit on the news. The first two pursuits were organized looters who assaulted police officers and tried to get away. Luckily, none of it no where near me so far!
The police just got the people in the third pursuit. Also looters!
So Tweety went on TV and said he would call in the military to disperse the protests. Then, he had the police clear the way from the White House, using tear gas and rubber bullets so he could walk to a church to get a photo op holding a Bible!
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."
Positive and scary thoughts
I knew it! This was part of his plan all along!
So Tweety went on TV and said he would call in the military to disperse the protests. Then, he had the police clear the way from the White House, using tear gas and rubber bullets so he could walk to a church to get a photo op holding a Bible!
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."
Positive and scary thoughts
I know. The precedent of the use of presidential force to stop violent protests goes all the way back to Washington during the Whiskey Rebellion. But the protesters that Tweety had cleared from the WH were peaceful and just exercising their first amendment rights. Now today he's bragging about his use of force on them.
That's it then. America has become a dictatorship.
Pamplemousse
02-06-20, 16:29
It's that. Many don't want to acknowledge that white privilege exists and that darker skin is unfortunately associated with crime and violence. It's this unconscious bias that seems to be deeply embedded in our culture. It's not just a police officer thing. When people lie about a crime they've committed, who do they say did it? An unidentified black man. When people see a black person walk through a non-black neighborhood, they get nervous. People who aren't black are scared to drive in mostly-black neighborhoods. Even within minority cultures here, the people with darker skin are teased or made fun of. Even other black people tease their friends and relatives with darker skin. I have family members who do it. (Even though they make fun of me for my light skin. You can't win!). It just seems so pervasive, but so many don't want to acknowledge it.
I remember listening to one of Obama's speeches where he said he got used to the sound of the central locking operating on the white folks' cars when he got near them - and we've seen enough reporting in the UK of white people calling the police because someone black has appeared in their neighbourhood.
Yes, I've also seen it first hand with my family and some of my coworkers. Because I have light skin, I've even been asked if I've needed help when surrounded by my family who have darker skin out in public.
MyNameIsTerry
02-06-20, 18:09
I remember listening to one of Obama's speeches where he said he got used to the sound of the central locking operating on the white folks' cars when he got near them - and we've seen enough reporting in the UK of white people calling the police because someone black has appeared in their neighbourhood.
We've seen some cases. How many of all colours viewed it as ridiculous?
Lots of BAME people in my area. The police would be opening stations on every street.
MyNameIsTerry
02-06-20, 18:11
That's it then. America has become a dictatorship.
Try to keep things in perspective, Frank. They wouldn't be using tear gas in countries like that as we have seen in some cases.
Pamplemousse
02-06-20, 18:16
We've seen some cases. How many of all colours viewed it as ridiculous?
Lots of BAME people in my area. The police would be opening stations on every street.
For clarity Terry, I worded it badly: my post should have read "..and we've seen enough reporting in the UK from the US of white people calling the police because someone black has appeared in their neighbourhood."
That's it then. America has become a dictatorship.
I haven't taken over yet, Frank. Patience. Keep calm for now. Catastrophizing won't help.
I haven't taken over yet, Frank. Patience. Keep calm for now. Catastrophizing won't help.
What exactly are you waiting for, old girl? :lac:
We've seen some cases. How many of all colours viewed it as ridiculous?
Lots of BAME people in my area. The police would be opening stations on every street.
In my area, the protests have been people of all colors. Whites, Asian Americans, Mexican Americans, other Latinos, blacks, African Americans... My Armenian American neighbors have a BLM sign in their front yard for support. Makes sense, socal only about 30%, non-Hispanic white. The other 70% has background from all over. At least in my area, from what I can see, and from what I've seen on the local news, pretty much everyone believes Floyd was killed by police brutality.
I know there were further protesters in downtown today, but they've all been peaceful so far. Our local police force took a knee with protesters today before they started work.
Who knows, maybe this will turn into a issue that ends up uniting us?
MyNameIsTerry
02-06-20, 21:29
For clarity Terry, I worded it badly: my post should have read "..and we've seen enough reporting in the UK from the US of white people calling the police because someone black has appeared in their neighbourhood."
I'm with you now. Yes, I remember seeing the one where the poor guy was trying to get into his apartment building and a woman confronted him then called the police. Disgraceful behaviour. The police should be slapping charges on such people, the upset they cause warrants some action.
What exactly are you waiting for, old girl? :lac:
Sigh. My shipment of nukes still hasn’t come in yet. Damn customs.
Protestors? Did someone say protestors? I saw three of them running down the street the other day. One of the protestors had a 41" Sony Smart TV. Another protestor had a Kitchen Aid 12 Speed Mixer. And the third protestor had a 16" MacBook Pro. I'm trying to figure out what exactly they were protesting with all that new electronic equipment?
Maybe the high price of electricity?
N.
MyNameIsTerry
03-06-20, 04:39
Protestors? Did someone say protestors? I saw three of them running down the street the other day. One of the protestors had a 41" Sony Smart TV. Another protestor had a Kitchen Aid 12 Speed Mixer. And the third protestor had a 16" MacBook Pro. I'm trying to figure out what exactly they were protesting with all that new electronic equipment?
Maybe the high price of electricity?
N.
Riots are always a good time to go shopping for bargains, N :winks:
I feel sorry for the small businesses. It's bad enough in normal times but right now they are already trying to stay afloat.
MyNameIsTerry
03-06-20, 04:43
In my area, the protests have been people of all colors. Whites, Asian Americans, Mexican Americans, other Latinos, blacks, African Americans... My Armenian American neighbors have a BLM sign in their front yard for support. Makes sense, socal only about 30%, non-Hispanic white. The other 70% has background from all over. At least in my area, from what I can see, and from what I've seen on the local news, pretty much everyone believes Floyd was killed by police brutality.
I know there were further protesters in downtown today, but they've all been peaceful so far. Our local police force took a knee with protesters today before they started work.
Who knows, maybe this will turn into a issue that ends up uniting us?
Vee, I hope so. It will only push things further that way I expect.
The trouble is it becoming looked on casually as your mass shootings are. Old news, America again, etc. A massive deal to you guys but to many of us it can end up as apathy watching a country that doesn't change. At least that's an attitude I see loads with any mass shootings now i.e. if they won't sort their gun issue what do they expect?
I think it's great it's a cross community thing so the rest aren't forgotten in this.
Protestors? Did someone say protestors? I saw three of them running down the street the other day. One of the protestors had a 41" Sony Smart TV. Another protestor had a Kitchen Aid 12 Speed Mixer. And the third protestor had a 16" MacBook Pro. I'm trying to figure out what exactly they were protesting with all that new electronic equipment?
Maybe the high price of electricity?
N.
Theres a difference between protesting and looting.
N, do you think that police officer should have put his knee on George Floyd’s neck?
Vee, I hope so. It will only push things further that way I expect.
The trouble is it becoming looked on casually as your mass shootings are. Old news, America again, etc. A massive deal to you guys but to many of us it can end up as apathy watching a country that doesn't change. At least that's an attitude I see loads with any mass shootings now i.e. if they won't sort their gun issue what do they expect?
I think it's great it's a cross community thing so the rest aren't forgotten in this.
Yes, tonight, in my area/county at least, the protests were all peaceful. No looting, and many officers took a knee with protesters today. We’ll just have to see how it goes.
Theres a difference between protesting and looting.
N, do you think that police officer should have put his knee on George Floyd’s neck?
No.
There is also a difference between protesting and rioting, Vee. MLK, Gandhi, they knew how to protest peacefully and properly...and with great results I might add.
Also, I don't believe police brutality by and large is racially driven. It's more of a power trip problem. How does anyone of us know that this most recent incident was done by someone who has hatred in his heart for blacks. But it's obvious he was on a total out of control power trip. Everyone of us has seen cops abusing their position. Give people a gun a badge and all that authority and a fair amount of them will behave poorly. And most of them don't care what color you are. Certainly there are racist cops...of all colors. There are racist teachers too, and racist librarians, racist house painters....
N.
I agree that there are racists of all colours in every walk of life.
Sigh. My shipment of nukes still hasn’t come in yet. Damn customs.
I have an old water cannon Bozzo gave me in my garage....is that any good? I could have DHL deliver it forthwith :wacko:
No.
There is also a difference between protesting and rioting, Vee. MLK, Gandhi, they knew how to protest peacefully and properly...and with great results I might add.
Also, I don't believe police brutality by and large is racially driven. It's more of a power trip problem. How does anyone of us know that this most recent incident was done by someone who has hatred in his heart for blacks. But it's obvious he was on a total out of control power trip. Everyone of us has seen cops abusing their position. Give people a gun a badge and all that authority and a fair amount of them will behave poorly. And most of them don't care what color you are. Certainly there are racist cops...of all colors. There are racist teachers too, and racist librarians, racist house painters....
N.
Quite right. This is about disproportionate force and abuse of power. But unfortunately divisions in society frequently become toxic after tragic incidents like these - and the US is no exception.
But to add insult to injury, innocent people suffer as a consequence of civil unrest too.
These "protests" seem to be pre-planned with pallets of bricks just lying there in the streets waiting for the "protesters". Both Floyd and Chauvin reported to be working in the same place previously for many years. Looks to be another staged event pushing the race war and divide and conquer agenda.
I think a distinction must be made between individual and systemic racism. I agree that racial prejudice exists among all racial/ethnic groups and across all walks of life. Often this manifests in one-on-one interactions. But its effects are cataclysmic when racism against specific groups is condoned and even encouraged by systems and authority figures based on faux notions of racial superiority. Saying that cops in America don't care what color you are when exercising their authority is denying the existence of systemic racism.
No.
There is also a difference between protesting and rioting, Vee. MLK, Gandhi, they knew how to protest peacefully and properly...and with great results I might add.
Also, I don't believe police brutality by and large is racially driven. It's more of a power trip problem. How does anyone of us know that this most recent incident was done by someone who has hatred in his heart for blacks. But it's obvious he was on a total out of control power trip. Everyone of us has seen cops abusing their position. Give people a gun a badge and all that authority and a fair amount of them will behave poorly. And most of them don't care what color you are. Certainly there are racist cops...of all colors. There are racist teachers too, and racist librarians, racist house painters....
N.
Wow, I think this might be the best post I've seen you write, N ;) I do agree with you, that we don't know what made that officer a tool. He had 18 prior complaints. It could have been that his next victim just happened to be black.
But I also have to agree with Pray4me that there is systemic racism going on, in general. Like you said, we don't know what made this officer do what he did, but I also know that in our country there is this racist mindset that sees black people as dangerous.
There were organized crime members just waiting to take advantage of the civil unrest. We've seen organized looters come through, especially in Long Beach on Sunday night. They weren't local people or people with the protest. They came in SUVs with the license plates covered. They were all covered in dark clothing and came prepared with crow bars and duffle bags. They broke, ran in, filled the bags and someone was waiting in those SUVs to drive them off.
I have an old water cannon Bozzo gave me in my garage....is that any good? I could have DHL deliver it forthwith :wacko:
It's a start! I also have a feeling that Hollow is preparing for the Zombie apocalypse and has a cache of weapons and supplies somewhere. I might just raid his house, first ;)
Oh, and N, I'm sorry to say, but I think Hollow has usurped your position as NMP Conspiracy Theorist. I can work on a new title for you in my regime if that's acceptable? ;)
Oh, and N, I'm sorry to say, but I think Hollow has usurped your position as NMP Conspiracy Theorist. I can work on a new title for you in my regime if that's acceptable? ;)
You can't be telling the truth these days without being labelled a "conspiracy theorist" so it's a badge of honour.
https://66.media.tumblr.com/be862494a04aed3632fd9ab55f624f17/tumblr_otk00jILBB1qmob6ro1_500.gifv
I think a distinction must be made between individual and systemic racism. I agree that racial prejudice exists among all racial/ethnic groups and across all walks of life. Often this manifests in one-on-one interactions. But its effects are cataclysmic when racism against specific groups is condoned and even encouraged by systems and authority figures based on faux notions of racial superiority. Saying that cops in America don't care what color you are when exercising their authority is denying the existence of systemic racism.
Yes it is.
N.
Wow, I think this might be the best post I've seen you write, N ;) I do agree with you, that we don't know what made that officer a tool. He had 18 prior complaints. It could have been that his next victim just happened to be black.
But I also have to agree with Pray4me that there is systemic racism going on, in general. Like you said, we don't know what made this officer do what he did, but I also know that in our country there is this racist mindset that sees black people as dangerous.
There were organized crime members just waiting to take advantage of the civil unrest. We've seen organized looters come through, especially in Long Beach on Sunday night. They weren't local people or people with the protest. They came in SUVs with the license plates covered. They were all covered in dark clothing and came prepared with crow bars and duffle bags. They broke, ran in, filled the bags and someone was waiting in those SUVs to drive them off.
Oh no Vee I've had much better posts than that...I was half asleep on that one.
I don't think all black people are dangerous do you? I don't think all white people are dangerous either do you?
And charging someone as a conspiracy theorist is just a charge to silence and marginalize someone. An educated person like yourself should know that.
N.
If a black police officer had committed the same offence on a white member of the public, would there be a similar reaction?
Wow, N. Who peed in your Cheerios?
You know I don’t think like that. I pointed it out because I’ve had family who’ve been on the receiving end of that thinking, and you know that too.
As for the conspiracy theorist thing, you know I’m just teasing you and Hollow. I’ve never told anyone on here not to express their opinions. In fact, I think I’m pretty open about the sharing of them, especially with you, even when we are pretty much polar opposites politically. But if it’s upsetting you, I’ll stop. You could have asked politely instead of trying to chastise me as if I’m a kid.
If a black police officer had committed the same offence on a white member of the public, would there be a similar reaction?
From the neo-Nazi hordes, maybe.
MyNameIsTerry
03-06-20, 21:19
You can't be telling the truth these days without being labelled a "conspiracy theorist" so it's a badge of honour.
https://66.media.tumblr.com/be862494a04aed3632fd9ab55f624f17/tumblr_otk00jILBB1qmob6ro1_500.gifv
Very much not the case otherwise we are all CTers at some point...
MyNameIsTerry
03-06-20, 21:22
Middle ground. Don't tar all with the crimes and attitudes of some. How many cops are protesting or supporting the protests? How many of them know far better than we do who the bad apples are? How many BAME cope are used to being excluded due to the old boy network just as the Met and government did here?
MyNameIsTerry
03-06-20, 21:30
If a black police officer had committed the same offence on a white member of the public, would there be a similar reaction?
Can't see it myself. The argument tends to be, like with all racism aimed at white people, that it's more about the history of oppression. One persons received abuse always trump's the other.
I can understand the view but I also dislike it. It never gets flipped for non white countries. And I question whether it puts up barriers and prevents moving forward. You see people get sick of it when someone else reduces it. This is something tied up in the white privilege debate and, in my opinion, some use it as another badge of honour for the cause just as some do it over LGBT+ issues. It's also false due to world history, again in my opinion, when we consider the holocaust and conquest times. However that doesn't mean I don't see some truth in that it meant an additional level of discrimination.
But is that the attitude of all or some? Since every group is always diverse I suspect we are back to the usual problem that is human beings being different.
Hopefully that's clear? Being white I'm aware of the irony in being privileged in my viewpoint. Racism I've experienced has been rare and it just didn't register with me (I laughed on one occasion).
MyNameIsTerry
03-06-20, 21:32
These "protests" seem to be pre-planned with pallets of bricks just lying there in the streets waiting for the "protesters". Both Floyd and Chauvin reported to be working in the same place previously for many years. Looks to be another staged event pushing the race war and divide and conquer agenda.
So do you believe it went wrong and was only meant to look like an abusive arrest but one in which Floyd lived?
If a black police officer had committed the same offence on a white member of the public, would there be a similar reaction?
Yes and No.
I suppose there would have been an outcry and appeals for the black police officer to be dismissed and tried for murder, and rightly so. (And this has happened before - https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/07/us/minneapolis-police-sentencing-mohamed-noor.html)
However, there would not have been widespread protests as (in the US at least) there is no historical and sustained pattern of white people being targeted by black cops overstepping their limits and using excessive force. Also we have not really had many post civil war leaders openly enable and encourage white supremacy, as we're seeing now.
Yes and No.
I suppose there would have been an outcry and appeals for the black police officer to be dismissed and tried for murder, and rightly so. (And this has happened before - https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/07/us/minneapolis-police-sentencing-mohamed-noor.html)
However, there would not have been widespread protests as (in the US at least) there is no historical and sustained pattern of white people being targeted by black cops overstepping their limits and using excessive force. Also we have not really had many post civil war leaders openly enable and encourage white supremacy, as we're seeing now.
Yes and no? Are you a politician?
If a black police officer had committed the same offence on a white member of the public, would there be a similar reaction?
It's a great hypothetical question.
The correct answer to it Pulisa is we wouldn't even know about it.
N.
MyNameIsTerry
03-06-20, 22:11
It's a great hypothetical question.
The correct answer to it Pulisa is we wouldn't even know about it.
N.
Or how about white cop, oriental victim? Or black cop, oriental victim?
I think it's incorrect to believe police haven't targeted other social groups e.g. drug offenders, prostitutes, LGBT+, etc. Maybe the scale differs and by country/society?
Yes and no? Are you a politician?
I am not a politician. And in case you did not read my full response. The first part expounds on the 'yes' and the second on the 'no'.
Or how about white cop, oriental victim? Or black cop, oriental victim?
I think it's incorrect to believe police haven't targeted other social groups e.g. drug offenders, prostitutes, LGBT+, etc. Maybe the scale differs and by country/society?
Two of the cops involved in the current case are Asian and have had charges against them today.
It's a great hypothetical question.
The correct answer to it Pulisa is we wouldn't even know about it.
N.
I disagree. Like I said, (and posited a link in my previous response), it has happened before and there has been an outcry about it, and rightly so.
Also Antsyvee, sorry for hijacking your thread. It really was not my intention to do so. I was only trying to contribute at first. Then many of the questions/remarks from others appeared to be in response to something I posted, so I've been responding to them. I am still trying to figure out how to do this in a single post.
Regardless, this is your thread about how you've been dealing with all of this turmoil, and I've been remiss in not asking you if you're doing alright. Are you ok? I hope it has been a bit of a distraction discussing things on here.
Two of the cops involved in the current case are Asian and have had charges against them today.
Of course in this case. Yes! But not in the hypothetical that was posed by Pulisa. And by and large police brutality cases are not racially motivated. you talk about systemic racism. That is a very grey term the left likes to use. Tell me where it exists today?
Here is an abstract from a Harvard University study done in 2016 and updated in 2019. I believe the professor who conducted the study in black.
Date Published:
2016
Abstract:
This paper explores racial differences in police use of force. On non-lethal uses of force, blacks and Hispanics are more than fifty percent more likely to experience some form of force in interactions with police. Adding controls that account for important context and civilian behavior reduces, but cannot fully explain, these disparities. On the most extreme use of force –officer-involved shootings – we find no racial differences in either the raw data or when contextual factors are taken into account. We argue that the patterns in the data are consistent with a model in which police officers are utility maximizers, a fraction of which have a preference for discrimination, who incur relatively high expected costs of officer-involved shootings.
Last updated on 06/03/2019
N.
MyNameIsTerry
03-06-20, 23:42
Two of the cops involved in the current case are Asian and have had charges against them today.
On a black victim. My point was whether it would be the same if the victim were oriental? The reason I wonder is because BAME is said to cover all but I wonder how equal they are in the same sense the LGBT+ community says this but it has its own internal problems.
Of course in this case. Yes! But not in the hypothetical that was posed by Pulisa. And by and large police brutality cases are not racially motivated. you talk about systemic racism. That is a very grey term the left likes to use. Tell me where it exists today?
Here is an abstract from a Harvard University study done in 2016 and updated in 2019. I believe the professor who conducted the study in black.
Date Published:
2016
Abstract:
This paper explores racial differences in police use of force. On non-lethal uses of force, blacks and Hispanics are more than fifty percent more likely to experience some form of force in interactions with police. Adding controls that account for important context and civilian behavior reduces, but cannot fully explain, these disparities. On the most extreme use of force –officer-involved shootings – we find no racial differences in either the raw data or when contextual factors are taken into account. We argue that the patterns in the data are consistent with a model in which police officers are utility maximizers, a fraction of which have a preference for discrimination, who incur relatively high expected costs of officer-involved shootings.
Last updated on 06/03/2019
N.
From the same artice:
"On nonlethal uses of force, there are racial differences—sometimes quite large—in police use of force, even after accounting for a large set of controls designed to account for important contextual and behavioral factors at the time of the police-civilian interaction. Interestingly, as use of force increases from putting hands on civilians to striking them with a baton, the overall probability of such an incident occurring decreases dramatically, but the racial difference remains roughly constant. Even when officers report that civilians have been compliant and no arrest was made, blacks are 21.2 percent more likely to endure some form of force in an interaction. Yet, on the most extreme use of force—officer-involved shootings—we are unable to detect any racial differences either in the raw data or when accounting for controls."
This article actually proves my point. Also Eric Garner, Rodney King, and George Floyd's deaths were not shooting deaths. Another research study you might be interested in:
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0141854
Also, I think at this point it might be more appropriate fr you to start your own thread if interested in discusisng this further.
It wasn't an article it was a study on the Harvard University website.
Actually I think that is making my point. It pretty much said the same thing as the abstract.
And this from the leftists bible The NYT:
Surprising New Evidence Shows Bias in Police Use of Force but Not in Shootings
– New York Times
11up-SUB-FORCE-master675
A new study confirms that black men and women are treated differently in the hands of law enforcement. They are more likely to be touched, handcuffed, pushed to the ground or pepper-sprayed by a police officer, even after accounting for how, where and when they encounter the police.
But when it comes to the most lethal form of force — police shootings — the study finds no racial bias.
“It is the most surprising result of my career,” said Roland G. Fryer Jr., the author of the study and a professor of economics at Harvard. The study examined more than 1,000 shootings in 10 major police departments, in Texas, Florida and California.
The result contradicts the image of police shootings that many Americans hold after the killings (some captured on video) of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo.; Tamir Rice in Cleveland; Walter Scott in South Carolina; Alton Sterling in Baton Rouge, La.; and Philando Castile in Minnesota.
It wasn't an article it was a study on the Harvard University website.
A research study once published is also called a research article. I read the whole study (the Fryer one , the abstract of which you shared) and excerpted the conclusions statement verbatim. Posting any more than that would be a copyright violation. The last statement in the abstract that you're basing your opinion on focused on 'shooting deaths' where they did not find a statistically significant difference by race . For all other forms of force (even when the victim was unarmed and compliant), they found Blacks were 21.2% more likely to be at the receiving end. Once again, Eric G, Rodney K, and George F were not shooting deaths.
I also link to another research study by Rose at al. which shows brutal force is more likely to be used with Black victims. Here it is again https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0141854 (https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0141854)
I have a feeling this can keep going on. I won't reply to any further posts from you as it's disrespectful to do so on AntsyVee's thread.
Wow it took you awhile to look that up. I'm still waiting for an example of systematic racism in America today.
Ok so I've given you the "article" and I've given you commentary from the NYT - 2 Bastions of progressivism.
Here's commentary from the right.
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/jonathan-tobin/harvard-study-debunks-police-shootings-myth/
BTW I respect Vee very much... and I hope she knows that.
I disagree. Like I said, (and posited a link in my previous response), it has happened before and there has been an outcry about it, and rightly so.
Also Antsyvee, sorry for hijacking your thread. It really was not my intention to do so. I was only trying to contribute at first. Then many of the questions/remarks from others appeared to be in response to something I posted, so I've been responding to them. I am still trying to figure out how to do this in a single post.
Regardless, this is your thread about how you've been dealing with all of this turmoil, and I've been remiss in not asking you if you're doing alright. Are you ok? I hope it has been a bit of a distraction discussing things on here.
You can hijack the thread. That's fine. After all, I have a tendency to hijack other people's threads, so it's only fair.
I think talking about racism in a safe environment is needed. I think we as Americans have always struggled to talk about difficult topics, especially concerning race and class.
I'm doing okay. Things have gotten back to normal in my city. The curfew has been lifted. I, like many people with GAD, struggle when something abruptly changes, and I worry more about the state of my life in general than I should. But once things settle down a bit, my anxiety does as well.
BTW I respect Vee very much... and I hope she knows that.
Thank you N, but I didn't find that one post very respectful, especially given what you know about me.
you talk about systemic racism. That is a very grey term the left likes to use.
Please don't dismiss this as a leftist issue. It's not something that liberals invented. It's a term that was adopted by sociologists in the 1970s to describe policies and conditions in our society's institutions that perpetuate inequality between the races and genders. Our country has had a history of systemic racism. Jim Crow Laws, Lynching, Segregation, the 20's America First Committee, all of those are historical examples of systemic racism, so one can't dismiss that "systemic racism" isn't a thing or is made up by a group to press their agenda.
Today there are many inequalities between different races and ethnicities, men and women, and those of the LGBTQ community. Individual acts of racism don't account for all the inequality. A lot of it has to do with class politics as well; however, one has to acknowledge that racial minorities make up the larger portions of the lower classes. Sociologists still argue all the time over which has more influence--race or class.
No one can argue with the statistics of inequality in our country, so what sociologists do is look at our institutions to see if they are contributing to the inequality. Unfortunately, it seems it still is the case in many institutions. The APA, the ACLU, SPLC, Dept of Ed, just to name a few have all done studies and acknowledged it exists in their respective institutions. Every year, as a teacher, we have professional development on closing the achievement gap of minorities and making sure that our disciplinary policies don't discriminate against certain groups of students.
But then you have the anecdotal stories of people of color, like my family. Every woman, every person of color, every LGBTQ community member has a story of when they've faced racism or prejudice. And when you've experienced it first-hand, whether it was an individual act or an act by an institution, it's not hard to believe that there could be policies in places contributing to the racism.
Well, tonight we just had an earthquake. Never a dull moment here! LOL
MyNameIsTerry
04-06-20, 04:33
Vee, I see what you did there. A huge STFU to any miscreants measured on the Richter scale.
I hope you and your loved ones are safe. You've got a lot factors combining when alone they can make people do silly things. There must be a lot of frightened people out there right now.
One of GADs annoying elements is the inner micro manager wanting to keep you safe from everything by looking for threatens in anything. Rather than be worried about one big outcome you can find yourself more worried about all the everyday and trivial stuff. But we need to keep it in proportion because how big a deal are so many of these things and what problems does it really cause if we have to put something back or reschedule?
One of GADs annoying elements is the inner micro manager wanting to keep you safe from everything by looking for threatens in anything. Rather than be worried about one big outcome you can find yourself more worried about all the everyday and trivial stuff. But we need to keep it in proportion because how big a deal are so many of these things and what problems does it really cause if we have to put something back or reschedule?
Yup. You said it, Terry. I use Niebuhr's quote to guide my life with GAD, "G-d, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference." Don't tell the rabbi, but I think I actually might say that one more than I say the Shema :ohmy:
MyNameIsTerry
04-06-20, 05:47
Yup. You said it, Terry. I use Niebuhr's quote to guide my life with GAD, "G-d, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference." Don't tell the rabbi, but I think I actually might say that one more than I say the Shema :ohmy:
The local charity holding walk-ins for mental health I used to attend have the groups recite that at the end of each meet (minus the God bit).
Thank you N, but I didn't find that one post very respectful, especially given what you know about me.
Which one would that be? How did I disrespect you? Because no one has a right to not be offended. That's a different matter.
"Every year, as a teacher, we have professional development on closing the achievement gap of minorities and making sure that our disciplinary policies don't discriminate against certain groups of students."
Your comment is making my point. Do you think it's only the educational institutions having these types of meetings and initiatives? Every business in America is having them constantly, including my own. If you'll read my post I asked for examples of systemic racism in America today. Also, I work with many minorities, about half my company I'd say. And particularly the African Americans are offended when a comparison is made between their past struggles and the LBGT community.
You talked about minorities being the majority of the lower economic class. I'll give you that for the most part. But there are millions of poor whites as well. But I put the blame squarely at the feet of the Democrats. They have owned lock stock and barrel every inner city of the US for 60 years. The last 3 years have seen the lowest unemployment among blacks in our nation's history. We will see what happens coming out of this covid 19 blip, hopefully. I will say the stock market has rebounded nicely. My 401k took a 20% nose dive YTD because of covid and now it's up over 3% YTD. I think that's significant.
N.
The local charity holding walk-ins for mental health I used to attend have the groups recite that at the end of each meet (minus the God bit).
The God bit is what makes it work, Terry.😁
Antsyvee, it seems like you just cannot catch a break! But I am glad to hear you're plodding along.
Regarding examples of systemic racism, here's a link to a Harvard study that shows you're more likely to get a job interview if you "Whiten" your resume: https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/minorities-who-whiten-job-resumes-get-more-interviews?cid=spmailing-25757313-WK%20Newsletter%2004-03-2019%20(1)-April%2003,%202019
There are also plenty of studies (too many to link here) about racial discrimination in rental housing and in public education (Black children are more likely to be placed in special education classrooms etc.)
I do agree though that not all marginalized groups are natural allies, and sometime hold prejudices against one another. But it's also good to see people with multiple oppressed identities (gay person of color) trying to forge unlikely alliances.
It's also good to see businesses and school systems taking concrete steps to address racial and other forms of discrimination. I personally think the way forward is by working together. Thinking in binaries (democrat versus republican, left versus right, liberal versus conservative) leads to further polarization and disaffection.
Which one would that be? How did I disrespect you? Because no one has a right to not be offended. That's a different matter.
N.
We can argue about the issues all we want. That's fine. What I don't think is cool is when you make it personally about me. If my teasing bothers you, tell me. I will stop. You don't have to make things personal.
Your comment is making my point. Do you think it's only the educational institutions having these types of meetings and initiatives? Every business in America is having them constantly, including my own.
Just because these meetings are happening does not mean that all problems are solved. Additionally, there's no harm in reminding employees about the challenges of the past either.
I'm not going to scour the internet to find you examples of systemic racism in every industry. My point was not to dismiss it's concept when historical examples prove that it's a concept in the first place. But if you want something to read, here's the NEA's article from last year on institutional racism in education: http://neatoday.org/2019/10/17/why-nea-members-are-talking-about-racism/
But there are millions of poor whites as well. I'm not denying this. In fact I alluded to this point when I mentioned that sociologists still argue over which has more impact, race or class.
But I put the blame squarely at the feet of the Democrats. I think this is short-sighted. Neither political party is innocent in this. In fact the whole two-party system works to perpetuate itself by ignoring a lot of class issues.
We can argue about the issues all we want. That's fine. What I don't think is cool is when you make it personally about me. If my teasing bothers you, tell me. I will stop. You don't have to make things personal.
Just because these meetings are happening does not mean that all problems are solved. Additionally, there's no harm in reminding employees about the challenges of the past either.
I'm not going to scour the internet to find you examples of systemic racism in every industry. My point was not to dismiss it's concept when historical examples prove that it's a concept in the first place. But if you want something to read, here's the NEA's article from last year on institutional racism in education: http://neatoday.org/2019/10/17/why-nea-members-are-talking-about-racism/
I'm not denying this. In fact I alluded to this point when I mentioned that sociologists still argue over which has more impact, race or class.
I think this is short-sighted. Neither political party is innocent in this. In fact the whole two-party system works to perpetuate itself by ignoring a lot of class issues.
No! I welcome the banter. Plus I have the hide of a rhino...so bring it on. But I still don't know what you're referring to. Or does it work this way, you tease, but I insult?
So you admit that systemic racism is something you have to scour for it doesn't leap out at you.
Fascinating topic though.
N.
Look back on page #5 and you'll see what I was referring to.
So you admit that systemic racism is something you have to scour for it doesn't leap out at you. Sigh. No N, you probably don't have to "scour" to find articles on it. It's just I'm on my summer vacation. I don't really want to research for you if you don't want to read them all.
Look back on page #5 and you'll see what I was referring to.
Sigh. No N, you probably don't have to "scour" to find articles on it. It's just I'm on my summer vacation. I don't really want to research for you if you don't want to read them all.
Ah pity...the last dying gasp of a liberal in battle.
Page 5 page 5... thumbing through them now...
I hope you enjoy your vacation Vee!😍
:wall:
Be careful there, N.
No! I welcome the banter. Plus I have the hide of a rhino...so bring it on But you were the one that got butt hurt and went after me personally when I teased you and Hollow about being conspiracy theorists.
MyNameIsTerry
04-06-20, 21:16
Antsyvee, it seems like you just cannot catch a break! But I am glad to hear you're plodding along.
Regarding examples of systemic racism, here's a link to a Harvard study that shows you're more likely to get a job interview if you "Whiten" your resume: https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/minorities-who-whiten-job-resumes-get-more-interviews?cid=spmailing-25757313-WK%20Newsletter%2004-03-2019%20(1)-April%2003,%202019
There are also plenty of studies (too many to link here) about racial discrimination in rental housing and in public education (Black children are more likely to be placed in special education classrooms etc.)
I do agree though that not all marginalized groups are natural allies, and sometime hold prejudices against one another. But it's also good to see people with multiple oppressed identities (gay person of color) trying to forge unlikely alliances.
It's also good to see businesses and school systems taking concrete steps to address racial and other forms of discrimination. I personally think the way forward is by working together. Thinking in binaries (democrat versus republican, left versus right, liberal versus conservative) leads to further polarization and disaffection.
It's always one vs another that we hear. I don't know about the US but here the 'true believers' don't win elections. The moderates and swing voters do.
So in UK terms we tend to talk Labour or Conservative. I vote either. I have issues that swing left and right. I don't align with either party. Both sides frustrate those more to the centre. The more they lurch away the worse they appear to the moderates.
I still vote, even though I feel like I'm picking between the lesser of two evils in some presidential races. Even though I think that the two-party system could use some overhauling in some areas, I still think it's my civic duty to vote. Too many people have suffered and sacrificed for my right to do so, IMO. It's only been a hundred years since women have had the right to vote in my country.
But you were the one that got butt hurt and went after me personally when I teased you and Hollow about being conspiracy theorists.
TDS: HEAR Trump lie. BELIEVE the lie. REPEAT the lie. CHASTISE anyone who doesn't believe the lie.
Positive thoughts
MyNameIsTerry
05-06-20, 04:50
I still vote, even though I feel like I'm picking between the lesser of two evils in some presidential races. Even though I think that the two-party system could use some overhauling in some areas, I still think it's my civic duty to vote. Too many people have suffered and sacrificed for my right to do so, IMO. It's only been a hundred years since women have had the right to vote in my country.
I agree. My dad told me why it was important to vote as I left school. He also explained how it can be a lesser of two evils and not to get your hopes up or be come apathetic if things don't change how you want them too. He also stressed how this is a way to make yourself heard as those who complain but refuse to vote aren't willing to put the effort in.
I've rarely voted anything other than the lesser of two evils. I once voted in a local for a man I thought was honourable, a surgeon at our local hospital, and that was in a party I would rarely go for.
We rarely even know about our MPs. But there can be important national interests that take over e.g. Brexit.
I'm pretty involved in local politics, especially making sure we don't have idiots on our school board. We just got an idiot recalled on our city's school board.
:wall:
Be careful there, N.
But you were the one that got butt hurt and went after me personally when I teased you and Hollow about being conspiracy theorists.
I wasn't hurt at all by your comment. Just because I made a salient point doesn't mean I was hurt by it.
Oh no Vee I've had much better posts than that...I was half asleep on that one.
I don't think all black people are dangerous do you? I don't think all white people are dangerous either do you?
And charging someone as a conspiracy theorist is just a charge to silence and marginalize someone. An educated person like yourself should know that.
N.
So I went back to page 5 and pulled this one up. Is this the one you're talking about Antsyvee? I still don't see the insult. You're an educator...please educate me.
I was teasing you and Hollow about being conspiracy theorists. Instead of just teasing me back like you usually do, you personally went after me implying that I'm trying to silence you, and then since you know about me being a teacher, you used that to chastise me like I'm a little kid. I find that insulting because I take my job seriously, and I go out of my way make sure all opinions are expressed. And you know that.
The thing about this modus operandi of communicating is that there is no tone.
And in regard to the teacher comment no personal attack was intended. Believe me if I were going to insult you there would be no ambiguity.
But I must say I do find it rather ironic that a teacher be so sensitive about being spoken to as a little kid when it's what they do every day...except in the summertime when they're on vacation. I mean teachers can still learn right?
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that you believe that I do respect you. If you do you'd be right. Sure, I can have an acerbic tongue now and then that's what comes from spending 20 years as a chief steward in a union...in another life. But it's rarely personal.
So what's up for the vacation?
N.
I have a pretty thick skin. I have to in my line of work. But I do have some sensitivities, as all people do. And I also believe in boundaries. My job is one of them because I take it so seriously. So I'm just letting you know that if you go after me personally regarding that, I consider it hitting below the belt.
As for summer, traveling is out. Normally on summer vacation I go and visit all the people I don't get to see during the school year. This year the aim is to get the landscaping done on the yard. But today it rained, so I get the day off :D I guess I could reorganize the garage...but I'd rather sit on my butt reading LOL
Panicattacka
06-06-20, 12:26
"Mommy, what does 'defund the police' mean?"
"It means Donald Trump gets reelected in November, honey."
And then he'll create a dictatorship and impose his will on the world!
WiseMonkey
06-06-20, 14:18
The Trumper is against a new world order so that won't happen but USA will get a lot more of the same as they've already had (which may appeal to some) :wacko:
The Trumper is against a new world order so that won't happen
Oh yeah? How do you know that?
And then he'll create a dictatorship and impose his will on the world!
The 22nd amendment to our Constitution:
"Section 1. No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of President more than once."
The 22nd amendment to our Constitution:
"Section 1. No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of President more than once."
I am aware of the 22nd Amendment, but I'm not convinced it's going to stop him running for a third term anyway.
I am aware of the 22nd Amendment, but I'm not convinced it's going to stop him running for a third term anyway.
There's a lot of speculation as to what would happen if he loses in November. From refusing to leave and being forcibly removed from the White House to refusing to show up for the inauguration. If he loses, I won't be surprised to see him leave the country and go to N Korea, Russia, Turkey or Saudi Arabia to avoid the inevitable prosecution and lawsuits that will follow.
Positive thoughts
Pamplemousse
06-06-20, 19:31
There's a lot of speculation as to what would happen if he loses in November. From refusing to leave and being forcibly removed from the White House to refusing to show up for the inauguration. If he loses, I won't be surprised to see him leave the country and go to N Korea, Russia, Turkey or Saudi Arabia to avoid the inevitable prosecution and lawsuits that will follow.
This is one thing I don't get about the US - the protracted handover between election and inauguration. In the UK, you're out the very next morning, no messing about.
I am aware of the 22nd Amendment, but I'm not convinced it's going to stop him running for a third term anyway.
I don't know how he could possibly get elected for a third term. It's against the law. You'd have to change the laws. Yes, I know he'd like to change the law in his favor, but you need 2/3rds of both houses of Congress and 3/4ths of the states to agree to it. I don't see that happening. Yes some republicans have sold their souls to support Trump to stay within party lines, but this isn't just about Trump. If you change the law, you're allowing everyone after Trump to be in office longer than two terms. I have still have faith that our populace isn't that short-sighted.
This is one thing I don't get about the US - the protracted handover between election and inauguration. In the UK, you're out the very next morning, no messing about.
The 20th amendment moved the presidential start date to January 20th. Before that I think it used to be in March sometime. So it's actually gotten shorter over the years. The transition time was put it to make the running of the country smoother as a new president takes over. Whether that is effective or not can be argued, as 1) we've never had it any other way and 2) some presidents have taken advantage or it and some have not. If you look back in history, some presidents have just showed up, and others have used the time to learn as much as possible from their predecessors. The precedent for it was established as early as Washington and Adams.
There's a lot of speculation as to what would happen if he loses in November. From refusing to leave and being forcibly removed from the White House to refusing to show up for the inauguration. If he loses, I won't be surprised to see him leave the country and go to N Korea, Russia, Turkey or Saudi Arabia to avoid the inevitable prosecution and lawsuits that will follow.
Positive thoughts
Yeah, there is a lot of speculation going on about this right now. Whatever the outcome, I know on election years it's a lot easier to teach History! I get a lot more buy-in LOL
There's a lot of speculation as to what would happen if he loses in November. From refusing to leave and being forcibly removed from the White House to refusing to show up for the inauguration. If he loses, I won't be surprised to see him leave the country and go to N Korea, Russia, Turkey or Saudi Arabia to avoid the inevitable prosecution and lawsuits that will follow.
Positive thoughts
Provided they don't get incinerated in a nuclear war first!
MyNameIsTerry
06-06-20, 21:37
This is one thing I don't get about the US - the protracted handover between election and inauguration. In the UK, you're out the very next morning, no messing about.
Or in Cameron's case you leg over the back garden fence :winks:
Update: Well, the looting started back up again in my city, and we're under a curfew again :(
MyNameIsTerry
07-06-20, 04:25
Is it more in the next city than yours, Vee? Hopefully they will get it under control swiftly like last time.
A few clashes between protesters and police here but it's to be expected with an issue like this. It's one that gat brings out those just looking for a fight with the authorities. Most are peaceful though and I feel sorry for them getting caught up against the police.
Well, it turns out I was wrong. The Starbucks and Denny's was boarded up out of precaution--not looting. They put the curfew on because there was a clash between the protesters over George Floyd's death and a group of pro-Trump counter-protesters and "defend the city" protesters. They don't want any more fighting.
Panicattacka
07-06-20, 10:38
So it's okay to gather in huge numbers now in public as long as you have a righteous cause? Covid got bumped from the MSM top spot?
Infection rates are on the way back up in many US states, and that is being linked to the protests, so brace yourselves.
This protest in London was allowed to go ahead. So does this mean that the rule of no social gatherings of more than six people has now been lifted in the UK?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8395227/Police-horse-bolts-thousands-clash-police-Black-Lives-Matter-demonstrations-London.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8395227/Police-horse-bolts-thousands-clash-police-Black-Lives-Matter-demonstrations-London.html)
Is it more in the next city than yours, Vee? Hopefully they will get it under control swiftly like last time.
A few clashes between protesters and police here but it's to be expected with an issue like this. It's one that gat brings out those just looking for a fight with the authorities. Most are peaceful though and I feel sorry for them getting caught up against the police.
The usual wallies who are out for a ruck just for the sake of it. Probably trying to re-live the Poll Tax riots of 30 years ago which in turn were also hijacked by the usual baying mobs hell-bent on anarchy and mass destruction, but that was in the pre-internet/social media era, so disturbances of that calibre (which we thankfully haven't yet seen since) were far more meaningful. Surely there were far more hot-headed police officers here in the UK back then than there are now who would just beat seven bells out of persons they simply didn't like the look of willy-nilly. Same with certain school headteachers prior to the 1986 CP ban who seemed to get kicks from caning and battering certain pupils whom they seemed to have some hatred of, especially if they were Black/Asian, or had learning disabilities.
Panicattacka
07-06-20, 12:50
Yeah, cuz hurling bikes at horses is totally justified, right. You deserve the collapse of your countries.
You deserve the collapse of your countries.
Sheesh! That was a little extreme don't you think? Having a rough day?
FMP
Yeah, cuz hurling bikes at horses is totally justified, right. You deserve the collapse of your countries.
So the UK is the 'problem' country of the world now then all over just one incident in the USA?
Totally despicable what those hooligans did in London yesterday by lobbing bikes at horses, but everywhere else in this country where BLM demos have taken place so far have been mostly peaceful with no full-on 'riots', nor even any attempted terrorist attacks.
Panicattacka
07-06-20, 13:49
So the UK is the 'problem' country of the world now then all over just one incident in the USA?
Totally despicable what those hooligans did in London yesterday by lobbing bikes at horses, but everywhere else in this country where BLM demos have taken place so far have been mostly peaceful with no full-on 'riots', nor even any attempted terrorist attacks.
But what happened to the need for social distancing and not gathering in groups of more than 6 people? Was all that countermanded?
Yeah, cuz hurling bikes at horses is totally justified, right. You deserve the collapse of your countries.
You know... maybe we do.
MyNameIsTerry
07-06-20, 16:38
Yeah, cuz hurling bikes at horses is totally justified, right. You deserve the collapse of your countries.
Every country has idiots and criminals. Why judge a country based on this?
MyNameIsTerry
07-06-20, 16:40
But what happened to the need for social distancing and not gathering in groups of more than 6 people? Was all that countermanded?
No, but perhaps they think storming crowds of protesters might look quite bad? The police didn't storm the beaches which no one a had a valid reason to be there for so breaking up a sensitive protest would look disproportionate.
Every country has idiots and criminals. Why judge a country based on this?
When they run the place.
MyNameIsTerry
07-06-20, 17:08
When they run the place.
Show me a country without dodgy politicians. Has one ever existed?
Every country has idiots and criminals. Why judge a country based on this?
Obviously has a blatant hatred of the UK.
And saying that we deserve the 'collapse' of our country is just not on.
Yes, we do have our problems but for the most part at least (apart from the odd isolated incidents that are mostly within our major cities), we aren't generally a trigger-happy culture like certain other countries. We are not a 'war zone' either.
Show me a country without dodgy politicians. Has one ever existed?
Probably. In the past. I dunno.
Probably. In the past. I dunno.
Maybe we just didn't know as much about countries with dodgy politicians in the past, like we do in this online age, apart from the likes of Germany, Russia, etc, of course.
Its said that there is truth in jest.... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2c-X8HiBng)
Positive thoughts
Yeah, cuz hurling bikes at horses is totally justified, right. You deserve the collapse of your countries.
That's not cool, dude. I realize you get angry, but when you make comments like that, you're acting just as obtuse as the some of the politicians on here that you complain about.
Its said that there is truth in jest.... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2c-X8HiBng)
Positive thoughts
LOL great scene, FMP!
Once again, I'm thankful I don't live in New Orleans. They have a tropical storm coming in on top of Covid and protests.
Churchill Next?
<strong>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qejY3gfv72s
Churchill was no friend to the mentally ill, he wanted the "mental defectives" put into labour camps.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_Deficiency_Act_1913
So Hollow, what is your opinion? Do you believe they should have kept the statue of Edward Colston or do you think it should have been torn down?
MyNameIsTerry
07-06-20, 21:50
Churchill was no friend to the mentally ill, he wanted the "mental defectives" put into labour camps.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_Deficiency_Act_1913
But then we are more enlightened now. Go back into history and weren't they all bad by today standards? Churchill is a hero figure due to WWII but some of his attitudes & actions make Trump look woke.
MyNameIsTerry
07-06-20, 21:52
So Hollow, what is your opinion? Do you believe they should have kept the statue of Edward Colston or do you think it should have been torn down?
No, not torn down by protesters or else where will it end?
With a lot fewer statues of slave traders, Terry? I fail to see how this is a bad thing.
MyNameIsTerry
07-06-20, 22:23
With a lot fewer statues of slave traders, Terry? I fail to see how this is a bad thing.
Legally removed is fine. Isn't mob rule a slippery slope?
These kind of scenes are carefully choreographed by spooks who are running things behind the scenes. I doubt if these "protesters" have any idea of who this guy was. No sign of police anywhere so obviously it's a MI5 run operation.
But you still never said what YOU think, Hollow?
But then we are more enlightened now. Go back into history and weren't they all bad by today standards? Churchill is a hero figure due to WWII but some of his attitudes & actions make Trump look woke.
Now I've heard everything.
MyNameIsTerry
08-06-20, 04:41
Now I've heard everything.
As Blue showed, Churchill was all for mental asylums. He was racist in modern terms, openly as many people were back then, and less than sympathetic to other races. He had an imperialist outlook so he didn't get on well with the Irish and is known for disparaging comments about other races. One of his shames in Ireland being the Black and Tans.
But this was all in a time when it was, and this is going to sound bad, normal in society. Even liberals back then spoke about people in terms that today's liberals would find shocking. Back then every country did the same to each other no matter what their skin colour.
A lot of the everyday racism was thankfully before my time e.g. the wording of products coloured black or brown with the N word, the 'no blacks, no Irish, no dogs' signs in boarding house windows. Around my area racism was more directed to Asian people but by then use of the P word was being stamped out.
Imagine the controversial statements that could be made back then, and earlier?
So obviously implying a woke Trump is going some but he would pale next to what older leaders said and did.
These kind of scenes are carefully choreographed by spooks who are running things behind the scenes. I doubt if these "protesters" have any idea of who this guy was. No sign of police anywhere so obviously it's a MI5 run operation.
How come spooks wasn’t in quotation marks but protestors was?
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What do you know about MI5, Hollow? Know anyone who works there?
What do you know about MI5, Hollow? Know anyone who works there?
No, not as far as I know but I've read about the kind of things they're involved in. There probably isn't a "terrorist" group or "movement" in Britain which isn't being run by the security services. Agent provocateurs such as Stephen Yaxley Lennon aka Tommy Robinson, Katie Hopkins, Anjem Chaudhary and Majid Nawaz among many others are all likely to be assets of British Intelligence.
MI5 'blocked exposure of Kincora sex abuse scandal'
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/article28375048.ece
Award-winning journalist, Chris Moore, claims British intelligence covered up years of abuse at the east Belfast hostel to conceal the fact that the house master, William McGrath, was one of its agents.
https://static-3.bitchute.com/live/cover_images/i6YoJ5cTgEzZ/VDLury9RVUEt_640x360.jpg
No, not as far as I know but I've read about the kind of things they're involved in. There probably isn't a "terrorist" group or "movement" in Britain which isn't being run by the security services. Agent provocateurs such as Stephen Yaxley Lennon aka Tommy Robinson, Katie Hopkins, Anjem Chaudhary and Majid Nawaz among many others are all assets of British Intelligence.
Sources, please?
Pamplemousse
08-06-20, 10:35
As Blue showed, Churchill was all for mental asylums. He was racist in modern terms, openly as many people were back then, and less than sympathetic to other races. He had an imperialist outlook so he didn't get on well with the Irish and is known for disparaging comments about other races. One of his shames in Ireland being the Black and Tans.
But this was all in a time when it was, and this is going to sound bad, normal in society. Even liberals back then spoke about people in terms that today's liberals would find shocking. Back then every country did the same to each other no matter what their skin colour.
A lot of the everyday racism was thankfully before my time e.g. the wording of products coloured black or brown with the N word, the 'no blacks, no Irish, no dogs' signs in boarding house windows. Around my area racism was more directed to Asian people but by then use of the P word was being stamped out.
Imagine the controversial statements that could be made back then, and earlier?
So obviously implying a woke Trump is going some but he would pale next to what older leaders said and did.
I have an interest in early technology; some of what was acceptable then in catalogues, songs, adverts would make your hair curl.
Churchill was a thoroughly unpleasant man; most of his contemporaries hated him. A frequent floor-crosser in politics, he was rather too fond of authoritarian actions. He tried to take control of the BBC during the General Strike in 1926 but was roundly told to stick his head where the sun don't shine by John Reith.
Good grief, that puts things into perspective, doesn't it?
Sources, please?
These are just a couple of examples but you can look into any of these people or groups and find connections that lead to the security services.
Half of all top IRA men 'worked for security services'
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/article16093721.ece
Abu Hamza trial: Defence claims radical worked with MI5
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-27321235
It occurs to me that Hamza's defence lawyers would have a vested interest in saying this.
As Blue showed, Churchill was all for mental asylums. He was racist in modern terms, openly as many people were back then, and less than sympathetic to other races. He had an imperialist outlook so he didn't get on well with the Irish and is known for disparaging comments about other races. One of his shames in Ireland being the Black and Tans.
But this was all in a time when it was, and this is going to sound bad, normal in society. Even liberals back then spoke about people in terms that today's liberals would find shocking. Back then every country did the same to each other no matter what their skin colour.
A lot of the everyday racism was thankfully before my time e.g. the wording of products coloured black or brown with the N word, the 'no blacks, no Irish, no dogs' signs in boarding house windows. Around my area racism was more directed to Asian people but by then use of the P word was being stamped out.
Imagine the controversial statements that could be made back then, and earlier?
So obviously implying a woke Trump is going some but he would pale next to what older leaders said and did.
You're right Terry.
Churchill, like him or loathe him, was a product of his time. And whilst much of what he stood for back then may have been abhorrent to many (and especially by today's standards), I cannot understand why certain factions of today's generation are getting so indignant about him (and other controversial 'historical' figures) right now as the man has been dead for donkeys years, and weren't even born whilst he was still with us. Why don't the protesters concentrate on what really matters in the 'here and now' rather than 'historical' events and figures. We cannot change the past but we can still change the present and the future.
Just because these people are in the past, it doesn't mean we need to carry on celebrating their memory any more.
Why would the victims of institutional racism want to see slave traders immortalised in statue form?
But then we are more enlightened now. Go back into history and weren't they all bad by today standards? Churchill is a hero figure due to WWII but some of his attitudes & actions make Trump look woke.
Definitely Terry.
As much as I (and many others) loathe both Trump and Johnson with a passion (sorry to any Trumpites and Johnsonites on here), they cannot really be compared directly to Churchill, Hitler, etc, because like I said in my other reply above, they were products of their time and it's basically like comparing apples with oranges. Similar to certain people trying to compare the current climate with the inter-war era.
Will these protesters be looking for a statue/monument of Thatcher to tear down or desecrate next? Or even Blair?
It wouldn't be the first time a Thatcher statue's been defaced. Heck, give me a bag of dog excrement and the chance to get away with it, and I'd do it myself.
People who are very dear to me have suffered systematic racial abuse for decades, and the people you're talking about helped propagate that. I don't think the fact that "things were done differently then" mitigates their pain.
Shame on the scumbags who attacked police officers in the name of racism. And as for Churchill, I suspect many of these "protesters" wouldn't have a clue who he was or what he represented. How does "justice" equate to vandalism?
Just because these people are in the past, it doesn't mean we need to carry on celebrating their memory any more.
Why would the victims of institutional racism want to see slave traders immortalised in statue form?
I kind of agree with you (re your first paragraph), but it was the way said statues were desecrated through wanton vandalism, but I suppose in perspective, it is not quite as sick and twisted as killing real living persons or animals though.
Exactly. Nobody's getting hurt, nor would I condone anybody getting hurt.
As for the vandalism, it's a display of disregard and irreverence towards people who never deserved respect in the first place.
It wouldn't be the first time a Thatcher statue's been defaced. Heck, give me a bag of dog excrement and the chance to get away with it, and I'd do it myself.
People who are very dear to me have suffered systematic racial abuse for decades, and the people you're talking about helped propagate that. I don't think the fact that "things were done differently then" mitigates their pain.
Even Blair?
Not Blair, no, not to the same extent. He was a warmonger and a raging self-publicist, but I don't think he's in the same league as the others mentioned.
It wouldn't be the first time a Thatcher statue's been defaced. Heck, give me a bag of dog excrement and the chance to get away with it, and I'd do it myself.
People who are very dear to me have suffered systematic racial abuse for decades, and the people you're talking about helped propagate that. I don't think the fact that "things were done differently then" mitigates their pain.
I can reason with you there, because I have Asperger's Syndrome (though I am White, and born in the West Midlands), and I have been on the receiving end of abuse by both staff and pupils at various schools I have attended over the years, and I have witnessed other kids like me at one of the schools (residential) receiving similar treatment to George Floyd but we daren't say nothing otherwise we would have had to face the music with something extremely nasty ourselves, such as myself being ducked under the water at the swimming pool by that very same psycho male staff member all because I 'grassed' on him to my parents about his rough treatment of us pupils. I still get traumatic flashbacks to that horrible period of 1986-87 when I was attending said school and at the mercy of that evil sadist pig. I often have fantasies about badly hurting that man, even now in 2020, even though I never actually intend to do such a thing in real life, as I hate violence and aggression.
People have suffered disability abuse for eons. And under the watch of Thatcher, Major, Blair, Brown, Cameron, May, Johnson, and all those that came before, you name them, and also during times of both boom and bust.
Sorry for straying off tangent.
I don't mind. I'm just so very sorry that you and other people with disabilities were treated in that way.
I was on the receiving end of abuse from my schoolmates too, but for some reason it was primarily about my supposed sexuality, rather than my disability. I suppose it's part of the same thing.
Yes abuse against disability was quickly swept under the table and things are a lot better now but that's no consolation for you both.
Is it more in the next city than yours, Vee? Hopefully they will get it under control swiftly like last time.
A few clashes between protesters and police here but it's to be expected with an issue like this. It's one that gat brings out those just looking for a fight with the authorities. Most are peaceful though and I feel sorry for them getting caught up against the police.
That's pretty much what happened here in the UK back in August 2011, the originally intended peaceful protests in Tottenham over the police shooting of Mark Duggan simply got hijacked by the usual baying mobs who were out for a scrap with the authorities (and also probably each other) and over the coming days virtually every major city in England was up in flames, all for the sake of the hooligan element in pursuit of their fifteen minutes of fame, and eventually not protests about racism, the poor economic conditions since 2008 or general dissatisfaction with the govt of the time.
Apart from the incidents in Central London and Bristol over the weekend, what we've seen so far here in the UK over the past week or so have been pretty tame by comparison, with no reports of any looting, burning down buildings, etc, so far. Also pales in comparison to the 1990 Poll Tax riots. And on the BBC today there have been no reports of any further incidents so far, not even any actual BLM demos.
MyNameIsTerry
08-06-20, 22:10
It wouldn't be the first time a Thatcher statue's been defaced. Heck, give me a bag of dog excrement and the chance to get away with it, and I'd do it myself.
People who are very dear to me have suffered systematic racial abuse for decades, and the people you're talking about helped propagate that. I don't think the fact that "things were done differently then" mitigates their pain.
It's not to mitigate it but part of understanding it means knowing the society of the time. It's not just this issue. Consider differing attitudes to sexual abuse.
100 years from now they will look at us and ask the same.
I can't agree on vandalism. Slippery slope to so many people feeling aggrieved doing the same. I wonder how much anger they will stoke up vandalizing the Cenotaph? Like those that urinate on war memorials.
It's not to mitigate it but part of understanding it means knowing the society of the time. It's not just this issue. Consider differing attitudes to sexual abuse.
100 years from now they will look at us and ask the same.
I can't agree on vandalism. Slippery slope to so many people feeling aggrieved doing the same. I wonder how much anger they will stoke up vandalizing the Cenotaph? Like those that urinate on war memorials.
Same here, no matter how justified the perpetrators feel.
Just like a lot of us seem to be blase about graffitists who constantly deface the sides of motorways and the like with their poxy tags and us just shrugging it off with the usual 'oh, it's the way of the world today', etc, and harping on about free expression and so on, where as in most cases, these taggers are probably just trying to act ''ard' with no real gain for themselves but spoiling the environment for the law-abiding majority.
It's not to mitigate it but part of understanding it means knowing the society of the time. It's not just this issue. Consider differing attitudes to sexual abuse.
100 years from now they will look at us and ask the same.
I can't agree on vandalism. Slippery slope to so many people feeling aggrieved doing the same. I wonder how much anger they will stoke up vandalizing the Cenotaph? Like those that urinate on war memorials.
That's why a lot of us now (and quite rightly) passionately desire to disown all things Jimmy Savile, and a lot of the other odious nonce cases like him who also fell foul of Yewtree a few years back.
I don't always agree with John Oliver, but he brings up some salient points in this. Have any of you watched this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf4cea5oObY
So the top story on the news is how many less people are out protesting today. Well, we're also in a heat wave. It was ten degrees hotter here today than in Death Valley. What do they expect?
MyNameIsTerry
10-06-20, 04:43
Same here, Vee, once the rain starts the less than committed will be heading for the pub (in normal times, at least).
You would need some medics on standby with big crowds in that heat.
Same here, Vee, once the rain starts the less than committed will be heading for the pub (in normal times, at least).
You would need some medics on standby with big crowds in that heat.
Yes, exactly. We don't need anymore people going to ERs and urgent cares. I hate to agree with anything that Trump does, but sometimes the media are idiots.
So the top story on the news is how many less people are out protesting today. Well, we're also in a heat wave. It was ten degrees hotter here today than in Death Valley. What do they expect?
Not really, it means they're beginning to accept the situation, that things are never going to improve.
Not really, it means they're beginning to accept the situation, that things are never going to improve.
I don't necessarily believe the protesters are beginning to accept the situation per se, just that (for better or worse) protests/disturbances naturally tend to peter out and exhaust themselves. And it was the grand funeral of George Floyd yesterday, which was beamed to the whole world on TV, which is bound to be having some kind of impact, coupled with some of our 'authority' figures here in the UK now having a rethink on monuments depicting controversial historical figures in various locations throughout the country that may cause offence to some.
I don't necessarily believe the protesters are beginning to accept the situation per se, just that (for better or worse) protests/disturbances naturally tend to peter out and exhaust themselves. And it was the grand funeral of George Floyd yesterday, which was beamed to the whole world on TV, which is bound to be having some kind of impact, coupled with some of our 'authority' figures here in the UK now having a rethink on monuments depicting controversial historical figures in various locations throughout the country that may cause offence to some.
Yes, protests have an expiration date, especially in the United States where I think even the strongest advocates for change feel uncomfortable with chaos after even a short time. Also, I think that the message is being heard more effectively this time around and a lot of pretty substantive reforms are taking place. New York, for example, voted to end this provision that shields NYPD personnel records from the public, meaning no one could request files on disciplinary hearings, etc... This was also a big issue after Eric Garner was killed several years ago, but got no traction. This time the legislature voted to remove it easily and the governor will sign. That's a pretty huge step.
Other states have also been moving quickly with some reform. I am the most cynical person out there so I don't expect sweeping reform, but it does seem like we've pushed the needle a lot further this time. This is how change happens. Think back to the issue of gay marriage in America. Politicians did not act until a consensus had formed throughout the public, which took many iterations of protesting and calls for change. It appears, at least based on recent polls, that the majority of Americans now support police reform and believe that institutionalized racism is real. Those in power care only about staying in power, so if siding with these issues means votes, they'll do it, but not a minute sooner!
If anything positive comes from Trump's presidency, it may be the rallying of Americans together against a common enemy to force change that wouldn't have been possible under a less polarizing president. For example, there's no way Mitt Romney would have been walking with BLM if there was a Democrat or a moderate Republican in the White House.
"Sir" Keir Starmer eats sh*t and bows down to the Oligarchs who control him.
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/06/09/16/29411558-0-image-a-19_1591717814838.jpg
Yes, protests have an expiration date, especially in the United States where I think even the strongest advocates for change feel uncomfortable with chaos after even a short time. Also, I think that the message is being heard more effectively this time around and a lot of pretty substantive reforms are taking place. New York, for example, voted to end this provision that shields NYPD personnel records from the public, meaning no one could request files on disciplinary hearings, etc... This was also a big issue after Eric Garner was killed several years ago, but got no traction. This time the legislature voted to remove it easily and the governor will sign. That's a pretty huge step.
Other states have also been moving quickly with some reform. I am the most cynical person out there so I don't expect sweeping reform, but it does seem like we've pushed the needle a lot further this time. This is how change happens. Think back to the issue of gay marriage in America. Politicians did not act until a consensus had formed throughout the public, which took many iterations of protesting and calls for change. It appears, at least based on recent polls, that the majority of Americans now support police reform and believe that institutionalized racism is real. Those in power care only about staying in power, so if siding with these issues means votes, they'll do it, but not a minute sooner!
If anything positive comes from Trump's presidency, it may be the rallying of Americans together against a common enemy to force change that wouldn't have been possible under a less polarizing president. For example, there's no way Mitt Romney would have been walking with BLM if there was a Democrat or a moderate Republican in the White House.
I think you're probably spot on there Erin. Just a shame that society on both sides of the Atlantic has previously been blase about such issues and the events of the past couple of weeks (plus the COVID-19 pandemic of course) have proved to bea wake-up call for us all and forced many of us to take our heads out of the sand.
Ironically, it is probably due to the COVID-19 pandemic and its associated restrictions (e.g, more people being at home than usual) that has finally awoken the world to the plight of inequality, in particular facing BAME persons, which perhaps may still have been brushed under the carpet once again had the COVID-19 pandemic not happened.
If anything positive comes from Trump's presidency, it may be the rallying of Americans together against a common enemy to force change that wouldn't have been possible under a less polarizing president. For example, there's no way Mitt Romney would have been walking with BLM if there was a Democrat or a moderate Republican in the White House.
Good post, Erin. I hope this is what the outcome will be as well.
Ironically, it is probably due to the COVID-19 pandemic and its associated restrictions (e.g, more people being at home than usual) that has finally awoken the world to the plight of inequality, in particular facing BAME persons, which perhaps may still have been brushed under the carpet once again had the COVID-19 pandemic not happened.
Yes, I agree with this, too. The nation's (and the world's) collective psyche is in a very different place right now than in recent history. People were ready to bust and in some ways it didn't even matter what the issue was. That along with, like you say, people being home from work and just available to protest, may have been exactly what turned the tide. People are craving togetherness and this issue allowed them to finally feel validated in seeking it despite the virus. This is going to be a REALLY interesting time in history to look back on.
MyNameIsTerry
10-06-20, 22:01
"Sir" Keir Starmer eats sh*t and bows down to the Oligarchs who control him.
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/06/09/16/29411558-0-image-a-19_1591717814838.jpg
That bloke will support anything to get brownie points and stab you in the back in the next room supporting your opposition.
A typical slimy lawyer.
I think you're probably spot on there Erin. Just a shame that society on both sides of the Atlantic has previously been blase about such issues and the events of the past couple of weeks (plus the COVID-19 pandemic of course) have proved to bea wake-up call for us all and forced many of us to take our heads out of the sand.
Ironically, it is probably due to the COVID-19 pandemic and its associated restrictions (e.g, more people being at home than usual) that has finally awoken the world to the plight of inequality, in particular facing BAME persons, which perhaps may still have been brushed under the carpet once again had the COVID-19 pandemic not happened.
I agree. Even though the issues of inequalities have been in the spotlight before during national disasters like Hurricane Katrina, those events were still localized. Covid is the first one really to effect everyone.
MyNameIsTerry
11-06-20, 04:50
The next issue gearing up here is another statue, Cecil Rhodes at Oxford uni. I had a petition pop into my email for it yesterday and it's getting some media focus.
Intetesting that Nelson Mandella tried to heal the divide by entering into a partnership with the Rhodes Trust and made his remarks about working together now. Perhaps he was able to see beyond old colonial wounds to a Trust now doing good?
It's going to be time to start censoring a lot of public galleries if it's expanded into any colonial figure given they were probably all like that.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-52990860
I assume the money is still wanted though?
Cecil Rhodes has always been controversial. I know of those who’ve turned down scholarships because of it.
Good gosh, it looks like the latest craze is hatred of statues, even those that have nothing whatsoever to do with slavery nor other controversial historical issues. Only just a few weeks ago there was a craze for desecrating 5G masts, now it's statues and monuments.
What next?
Well, the ones they desecrated over here in the US all had to do with slavery. It was Columbus and some Confederate soldiers.
whispershadow
13-06-20, 14:48
I'm hoping the restrictions are fully able to be lifted before the end of the year. We're halfway through the year now.
I'm hoping the restrictions are fully able to be lifted before the end of the year. We're halfway through the year now.
Agreed. Certain folks are starting to get a bit restless now, particularly showing in the BLM protests over the past week or so, which are probably also a manifestation of people being cooped up for so long during the lockdown and their being deprived of normality that we all otherwise take for granted. And this is even though I thought the full lockdown was necessary in the beginning, and should have happened 2-3 weeks earlier than it did, but what's done is done, and the powers that be have to bite the bullet at some point with easement, even if only on a trial and error basis.
whispershadow
13-06-20, 16:39
Agreed. Certain folks are starting to get a bit restless now, particularly showing in the BLM protests over the past week or so, which are probably also a manifestation of people being cooped up for so long during the lockdown and their being deprived of normality that we all otherwise take for granted. And this is even though I thought the full lockdown was necessary in the beginning, and should have happened 2-3 weeks earlier than it did, but what's done is done, and the powers that be have to bite the bullet at some point with easement, even if only on a trial and error basis.
yeah they're going to have to fully lift all restrictions at some point.
whispershadow
13-06-20, 17:18
Good gosh, it looks like the latest craze is hatred of statues, even those that have nothing whatsoever to do with slavery nor other controversial historical issues. Only just a few weeks ago there was a craze for desecrating 5G masts, now it's statues and monuments.
What next?
I don't agree with destroying things like statues. Its like denying history.
I don't agree with destroying things like statues. Its like denying history.
Absolutely. It's probably a tiny faction of brain dead morons who have infiltrated the BLM movement for their fifteen minutes of fame who are the ones stirring the pot and making a mockery of the original cause.
Sadly, as predicted, the protests have now been hijacked by the hard right factions in central London and the leaders of the BLM movement are now pleading with their demonstrators to give themselves up and go home for their own safety and security.
The "real' lunatics have now well and truly taken over the asylum!!
I have to disagree with you both. At least for the statues here in the US. The Confederate statues should never had been put up in the first place. If the statues were there to commemorate those lost in the war, that would be different, but the Confederate statues were put in place to keep the "glory" of the South again. For years people down there believed in "The South shall rise again." That idea of the South was built on the backs of slaves.
MyNameIsTerry
14-06-20, 04:24
Absolutely. It's probably a tiny faction of brain dead morons who have infiltrated the BLM movement for their fifteen minutes of fame who are the ones stirring the pot and making a mockery of the original cause.
Sadly, as predicted, the protests have now been hijacked by the hard right factions in central London and the leaders of the BLM movement are now pleading with their demonstrators to give themselves up and go home for their own safety and security.
The "real' lunatics have now well and truly taken over the asylum!!
Well, that's what happens when you deface Churchill's statue. The BLM leaders should have prevented vandalism.
I'm sure the BLM will have it's share of thugs who can't wait to get stuck in just as both sides have always fought in the streets under previous names.
Not all statues will be viewed the same but they will add up. Baden Powell's had a crowd around trying to stop the council removing it for it's own protection. They probably expect it will get replaced sneakily once the heat is off? :winks:
So far no reports of any further BLM related disturbances in the UK today.
Oh yeah? How do you know that?
Frank Wisemonkey is absolutely correct. Trump is a big time anti-globalist.
MyNameIsTerry
15-06-20, 04:27
So far no reports of any further BLM related disturbances in the UK today.
Sadly clashes between the far right and the anti lot. Plenty of arrests. I like how the new arrest charges are being used, whacking someone over the head with a chair becomes a curfew breach. No brownie points in the nick for that. :biggrin:
At least that got the moron who urinated on that brave constable's monument. :mad:
Today at lunch time we had a group of pro-maskers versus anti-maskers face off and close down an intersection. Lots of shouting, but no violence that we can see.
i will say that drones do come in handy to watch this sort of thing.
The government is planning to strip our rights!
MyNameIsTerry
17-06-20, 04:27
Today at lunch time we had a group of pro-maskers versus anti-maskers face off and close down an intersection. Lots of shouting, but no violence that we can see.
i will say that drones do come in handy to watch this sort of thing.
Do the anti maskers have to wear some form of uniform so we can distinguish them from those not currently wearing a mask but not aversed to it? Perhaps some form of face covering? :biggrin:
LOL most of them had signs, Terry.
Yeah, cuz hurling bikes at horses is totally justified, right. You deserve the collapse of your countries.
You may be right.
The government is planning to strip our rights!
Nonsense. As much as I dislike our current govt, I personally think you may be exaggerating a fair bit there.
If they literally were intent on stripping our rights, would have they, for example, authorised the reopening of non-essential stores here in England on Monday?
Um...but isn't it just the fact that they can open them and close them at will, Lenco?
Um...but isn't it just the fact that they can open them and close them at will, Lenco?
I suppose only time can tell with that one.
BLM have started kicking off in Brighton out of the blue today, after about 3 weeks of calm within our shores.
I wonder if there will be Disabled Lives Matter protests start up as well, as surely people with learning disabilities must also be fair game for police brutality, which is probably under-reported!!
C'mon now, Lenco. I know you don't like the disruption of protesting, but don't go there. That's not cool. Just be glad you don't have to deal with racism or disability.
BLM have started kicking off in Brighton out of the blue today, after about 3 weeks of calm within our shores.
I wonder if there will be Disabled Lives Matter protests start up as well, as surely people with learning disabilities must also be fair game for police brutality, which is probably under-reported!!
Of course disabled lives matter, and the police definitely are brutal towards disabled people as well, just google it and you will get hundreds of results, reading about it is sickening. The problem is police unfairly target black people/communities. The protests are about bringing light to police brutality and demanding it be reformed/abolished, as well as justice for all those killed/harmed/unfairly prisoned.
C'mon now, Lenco. I know you don't like the disruption of protesting, but don't go there. That's not cool. Just be glad you don't have to deal with racism or disability.
I'm not actually gonna go there, as it would probably be even more traumatic being in the thick of a mammoth protest, with thousands of angry and bitter people shouting, swearing and possibly being physically violent. I just said that last night kind of in jest, and in the heat of the moment.
As I've said before on here, I don't always literally mean everything I say.
And FYI, I do actually have a disability, Asperger's Syndrome. And whilst I have (so far) never been on the receiving end of police brutality, I have most certainly been on the receiving end of brutality and abusive treatments by school staff in the past, even after 1986, the year caning was outlawed here in the UK.
Of course disabled lives matter, and the police definitely are brutal towards disabled people as well, just google it and you will get hundreds of results, reading about it is sickening. The problem is police unfairly target black people/communities. The protests are about bringing light to police brutality and demanding it be reformed/abolished, as well as justice for all those killed/harmed/unfairly prisoned.
I'm not in the slightest trivialising the plight that many Black persons suffer the world over, and I do really feel for the vast majority of them (the innocent law-abiding ones) and racism most certainly needs addressing in a big way, but as we both agree, disability abuse (across all ethnicities) is a lot more widespread than many of us think it is. Same as (non-sexual) child abuse, which also hardly ever seems to get mentioned in the news these days, as I remember back in the late 80s and early 90s there seemed to be major moral panics fuelled by news headlines about a supposed epidemic of children being brutalised by their parents, especially when connected with unemployment and inadvertently, alcoholism.
I just said that last night kind of in jest, and in the heat of the moment.
As I've said before on here, I don't always literally mean everything I say..
Sorry, but there was no way to tell this ^^ from that post you made.
In fact there was an incident in Cornwall a couple of years back when a young man with ASD was subjected to a George Floyd type assault by a police officer but it didn't get the same degree of media coverage because ASD isn't as newsworthy as racism (I say that as the mother of 2 adult children with ASD)
If it's not perceived racism it doesn't lead.
In fact there was an incident in Cornwall a couple of years back when a young man with ASD was subjected to a George Floyd type assault by a police officer but it didn't get the same degree of media coverage because ASD isn't as newsworthy as racism (I say that as the mother of 2 adult children with ASD)
Did that person get killed? If so, it probably would have received more widespread media coverage. And most certainly if that person also happened to be Black or Asian!
Whilst on the subject of Cornwall and disability abuse (whilst at the same time not intending to single out nor stereotype said county), wasn't there a Winterbourne View-type scandal in a residential unit there for people with LDs around 2006 or so?
Of course disabled lives matter, and the police definitely are brutal towards disabled people as well, just google it and you will get hundreds of results, reading about it is sickening. The problem is police unfairly target black people/communities. The protests are about bringing light to police brutality and demanding it be reformed/abolished, as well as justice for all those killed/harmed/unfairly prisoned.
I'm not referring to any new incidents concerning the BLM thing per se, but I was thinking this morning about that incident involving David 'Rocky' Bennett who was subjected to brutality by staff in a psychiatric unit in Norwich, England in October 1998, that sadly proved fatal, and that victim was both Black and had a developmental disability.
As tragic as it was, I don't even recall the original incident when it was in the news at the time, it was only just over a decade later that I found out about it (around the time of the Winterbourne View scandal), and I don't recall that big a deal being made out of it at the time either.
I bet had that particular incident occured today in these more enlightened times there would have been a major kerfuffle, not just in this country but the world over, with both the BLM and disability rights camps taking to the streets en masse!!
MyNameIsTerry
23-08-20, 05:40
Difficult times over there with the wildfires so I'm hoping you & your family are safe, Vee :hugs::flowers:
TY. We had two wildfires last week, but they are pretty contained now. Keep your fingers crossed storms don’t start any more this week. The worst fires now are several hours north of me up in NorCal where we have the dense redwood forests. It’s pretty bad up there :unsure: The whole state is supposed to remain in the heat wave this week. 35c + temps
This isn't about looting per se, but I have noticed over more recent years the lack of mass public revolts against company closures and the resulting masses of job losses.
For example, just before last Christmas the long-running UK retailer Mothercare went bust, along with several others both before and after it, spanning pretty much from the Global Financial Crisis right through to the current COVID-19 pandemic, and barely anyone seemed to bat an eyelid and remember thinking had their demise occurred some 10-20 years earlier (and under Labour), there probably would have been mass protests, just like when the Rover Group went bust in the spring of 2000, and resulted in city-wide marches across Birmingham, and many of Rover's former employees consequently turning their backs on the Blair govt (and inadvertently blaming them for the collapse of Rover), and the then-Tory leader William Hague 'pretending' to sympathise with the redundant workers from the former Longbridge plant.
I often wonder why there aren't those big protest marches over big company closures to the same extent that there used to be nowadays (though not necessarily advocating such things).
Is it because most people just air their grievances on social media and the like these days, or is it because they believe that such old-school protest marches are now often a waste of time, or both?
Just curious.
We had protests here about a Sriracha sauce factory closing here about a year and a half ago, and they ended up keeping the factory open.
Pamplemousse
23-08-20, 20:00
I often wonder why there aren't those big protest marches over big company closures to the same extent that there used to be nowadays (though not necessarily advocating such things).
Is it because most people just air their grievances on social media and the like these days, or is it because they believe that such old-school protest marches are now often a waste of time, or both?
Just curious.
A general sense of futility, I suppose: Que sera, sera.
MyNameIsTerry
24-08-20, 00:49
This isn't about looting per se, but I have noticed over more recent years the lack of mass public revolts against company closures and the resulting masses of job losses.
For example, just before last Christmas the long-running UK retailer Mothercare went bust, along with several others both before and after it, spanning pretty much from the Global Financial Crisis right through to the current COVID-19 pandemic, and barely anyone seemed to bat an eyelid and remember thinking had their demise occurred some 10-20 years earlier (and under Labour), there probably would have been mass protests, just like when the Rover Group went bust in the spring of 2000, and resulted in city-wide marches across Birmingham, and many of Rover's former employees consequently turning their backs on the Blair govt (and inadvertently blaming them for the collapse of Rover), and the then-Tory leader William Hague 'pretending' to sympathise with the redundant workers from the former Longbridge plant.
I often wonder why there aren't those big protest marches over big company closures to the same extent that there used to be nowadays (though not necessarily advocating such things).
Is it because most people just air their grievances on social media and the like these days, or is it because they believe that such old-school protest marches are now often a waste of time, or both?
Just curious.
Probably the lack of union coordination? A company I worked later closed an office and shipped off to India. What would protesting have achieved in a company with a small % of union memberships?
Car plants, pits, steelworks, etc have a long history of strong union membership. No one cares when a high office or retailer sacks everyone as they aren't seen as traditional industry the area takes pride in.
MyNameIsTerry
24-08-20, 05:13
TY. We had two wildfires last week, but they are pretty contained now. Keep your fingers crossed storms don’t start any more this week. The worst fires now are several hours north of me up in NorCal where we have the dense redwood forests. It’s pretty bad up there :unsure: The whole state is supposed to remain in the heat wave this week. 35c + temps
I read about the redwoods. A sad loss and also local wildlife who will be suffering.
They seem to be expected some lightning storms in some areas so it must be very tense right now.
I was reading about the inmate fire fighters being released early due to the virus leaving a big hole in services. Maybe some will volunteer? I never knew they did it so fair play to them.
I read about the redwoods. A sad loss and also local wildlife who will be suffering.
They seem to be expected some lightning storms in some areas so it must be very tense right now.
I was reading about the inmate fire fighters being released early due to the virus leaving a big hole in services. Maybe some will volunteer? I never knew they did it so fair play to them.
yes, we use inmate firefighters, and lots of volunteers, like fire fighters militia and boy/Girl Scouts. My dad volunteers and clears brush up in the mountains. So when Trump gets on his high horse and tells us the fires are our fault for not clearing them, we do the best we can, many with just regular citizens. But we have a lot of forests, especially with older redwood trees that people would get mad if we allowed to burn. Sometimes we’re damned if we do, and damned if we don’t. We’ve had a scary heat wave that’s lasted a long time for us, and unfortunately lots of storms with it over the mountains.
Probably the lack of union coordination? A company I worked later closed an office and shipped off to India. What would protesting have achieved in a company with a small % of union memberships?
Car plants, pits, steelworks, etc have a long history of strong union membership. No one cares when a high office or retailer sacks everyone as they aren't seen as traditional industry the area takes pride in.
Likewise, I wonder how the general public would respond today if Boris and Co decided to reinstate the Poll Tax?
Would central London would go up in flames again just like it did 30 years ago, or would most people probably be more blasé about the whole thing now?
This is just a hypothetical scenario BTW.
You never know, Lenco. Sometimes humanity surprises me. I thought a lot of people here wouldn't pay attention to the crap that Trump and his crony DeJoy were trying to do to the USPS to stop voting by mail, but people have paid attention, protested, demanded change, and today DeJoy got grilled by Congress.
I see they are at it again across the pond in Wisconsin. It seems like many cops over there never seem to learn and still literally continue to wade in all guns blazing, despite all the global hysteria over the George Floyd incident back in May.
I reiterate that I am not having digs at the USA and Americans in general, just certain aspects of their policing culture.
I just hope (for the umpteenth time) it doesn't provoke copycat disturbances over here with our disaffected inner city youth (of all ethnicities) wilfully ganging up on the police and trashing their own communities simply because they're in pursuit of a big scrap both with each other, and the authorities.
Partake in peaceful (BLM) demos by all means, but not full-on rioting and terroristic antics on the streets of Blighty (and other countries around the world) just for the sake of it.
Yes, I think everyone shares these concerns, LB. No one wants trigger-happy cops or more violent protests.
MyNameIsTerry
27-08-20, 04:37
I see they are at it again across the pond in Wisconsin. It seems like many cops over there never seem to learn and still literally continue to wade in all guns blazing, despite all the global hysteria over the George Floyd incident back in May.
I reiterate that I am not having digs at the USA and Americans in general, just certain aspects of their policing culture.
I just hope (for the umpteenth time) it doesn't provoke copycat disturbances over here with our disaffected inner city youth (of all ethnicities) wilfully ganging up on the police and trashing their own communities simply because they're in pursuit of a big scrap both with each other, and the authorities.
Partake in peaceful (BLM) demos by all means, but not full-on rioting and terroristic antics on the streets of Blighty (and other countries around the world) just for the sake of it.
There was one in London mid July. The officer has been suspended. Where were all the protests?
One just over a week ago where there was a threat of choke. Not a peep about protests but there are protesters. Not fashionable up north?
Something I question about this is why does it seem to eminate from the US? It was the same with the election of Trump. People marched worldwide. Yet things, many far worse, are happening daily across the world and where are the protestors?
Is it the media? Is it greater mobilisation of activism in the US? (Which brings in the issue of backers)
Did you see the videos from Wisconsin, Terry?
MyNameIsTerry
27-08-20, 04:42
Likewise, I wonder how the general public would respond today if Boris and Co decided to reinstate the Poll Tax?
Would central London would go up in flames again just like it did 30 years ago, or would most people probably be more blasé about the whole thing now?
This is just a hypothetical scenario BTW.
I really don't know to be honest. I'm not sure the mood is the same. People have been sick of austerity for some time. Many are disgusted by the treatment of the ill & disabled by the DWP (both Labour then Tory). XR have shown up to add a middle class environmental movement. The UK BLM seem to have shaken off the posh white privileged types they were misrepresented by (BLM US were warning of that hijack).
But having said all that are we better off today than back then? Lots of unemployment back then, police corruption, strikes were common, etc. Would today's poll tax protestors just be our usual London types or would more working class people be kicking off?
MyNameIsTerry
27-08-20, 04:46
Did you see the videos from Wisconsin, Terry?
No, only read the news about it.
Watch them. The initial one where dad gets killed and the one with the 17 year old and the protests. You'll see why. To call it upsetting is an understatement.
MyNameIsTerry
27-08-20, 05:04
Sorry Vee I'm not sure what you mean. My post was asking why UK protest groups are silent over recent UK police injustice. Lenco has been wondering about how quiet it has gone here since recent protests yet events like a London copper being suspended over restraining a suspect with a knee on the neck should surely be the petrol on the fire?
Something I question about this is why does it seem to eminate from the US? It was the same with the election of Trump. People marched worldwide. Yet things, many far worse, are happening daily across the world and where are the protestors?
Is it the media? Is it greater mobilisation of activism in the US? (Which brings in the issue of backers)
Ohh okay. When I read this part, I thought you were asking why people started protesting again...
MyNameIsTerry
27-08-20, 05:15
Ohh okay. When I read this part, I thought you were asking why people started protesting again...
No, no way. That one is even worse, more violent to me.
I just can't get my head around what kind of psycho does that and thinks he can get away with it now. But I'm thinking of over here. How stupid are some people in the age of everyone with a camera in their pocket?
Doesn't it also re-raise the gun law issue? Some criminal running around with a rifle.
I think one element is US cases are more extreme than ours. We have our deaths too but not like the scale over there. But I do wonder why UK groups pick one case and not another. They've just been tearing down statues and wanting change yet police injustice happens in one of the most multicultural places, even in London, and it's a meh. :shrug:
Yeah, I can't really speak for people in the UK. All I can imagine is that people see others who look like them being mistreated over here, and they want to do something. I remember in the late 80s/early 90s going to protests about apartheid in SA as a kid even though my holding a sign and shouting all the way over here in the US probably did nothing.
There was one in London mid July. The officer has been suspended. Where were all the protests?
One just over a week ago where there was a threat of choke. Not a peep about protests but there are protesters. Not fashionable up north?
Something I question about this is why does it seem to eminate from the US? It was the same with the election of Trump. People marched worldwide. Yet things, many far worse, are happening daily across the world and where are the protestors?
Is it the media? Is it greater mobilisation of activism in the US? (Which brings in the issue of backers)
Perhaps the UK media opted to keep the two recent instances of police brutality here in Blighty lower key in order to reduce the likelihood of widespread mass disturbances.
In the summer of 2017 there was a bit of a disturbance somewhere in Greater London (Dulwich I think) that involved a Black person being killed in the hands of the police, but interestingly it never led to August 2011 all over again, especially at a time when tensions in this country were already running high over many other issues, such as Brexit, ongoing austerity, the then-recent Grenfell Tower tragedy, the (also) then-recent terrorist attacks in both central London itself and Manchester, and the knife crime epidemic to name but a few, but I reckon the national (and international) media might have opted to play it safe and keep it relatively low-key in order to avoid all our other major cities going up in flames once again.
MyNameIsTerry
28-08-20, 04:49
Did you see the videos from Wisconsin, Terry?
I've seen this now and it doesn't quite match what I read so I think, until we know whether correct procedure was followed, I'll have to reconsider my psycho and getting away with it comment.
If the police are being truthful about the tazering and recovery of a knife on a DV call then it's not as simple. Seven times seems crazy even then but I'm not a firearms trained officer so am unaware of where the line is. But it does seem strange in terms of proximity but there are children in the car. The other officers were further away so one firing can be explained.
As for that white supremacist idiot, glad to see him charged and hopefully a very long sentence will be awarded.
MyNameIsTerry
28-08-20, 04:52
Yeah, I can't really speak for people in the UK. All I can imagine is that people see others who look like them being mistreated over here, and they want to do something. I remember in the late 80s/early 90s going to protests about apartheid in SA as a kid even though my holding a sign and shouting all the way over here in the US probably did nothing.
S.A. was a big one here too which is not surprising considering our government's support 9ver the years. The outgoing Labour leader can be seen being arrested for protesting over there.
I guess it's the closeness of groups between our countries. I just can't see much being made of offences in other countries.
Well when things happen in other countries, people usually protest outside that country’s embassy here. Californians like to protest :) Maybe not as much as the French, though.
MyNameIsTerry
28-08-20, 05:30
Yes, same here. Plenty of anti trumping went on outside your embassy in London after he won.
Sounds like London and California share some activities then. Bizarrely your "come to California" adverts on TV just show lots of cool attractive people (and William Shatner) playing games or surfing :biggrin:
Yes, same here. Plenty of anti trumping went on outside your embassy in London after he won.
Sounds like London and California share some activities then. Bizarrely your "come to California" adverts on TV just show lots of cool attractive people (and William Shatner) playing games or surfing :biggrin:
Shatner is Canadian, so he doesn't count. That's the thing with California, we have a lot of transplants. The weather is so nice here (most of the time), people come to visit and they don't leave. Some of them make our state better, some of them are just there, and some of them need to go back under the rock they crawled out from LOL
MyNameIsTerry
28-08-20, 22:23
Shatner is Canadian, so he doesn't count. That's the thing with California, we have a lot of transplants. The weather is so nice here (most of the time), people come to visit and they don't leave. Some of them make our state better, some of them are just there, and some of them need to go back under the rock they crawled out from LOL
There must be a nod to the 'not so royal anymore' in there somewhere, maybe not to the better part though :roflmao:
They're " just here" . So far they haven't really done much. They haven't caused any freeways to shut down or caused us to spend tax dollars on their security.
Edit: I'll add that Meghan was born here, so as long as she pays her taxes to our state, we're good.
Shatner is Canadian, so he doesn't count. That's the thing with California, we have a lot of transplants. The weather is so nice here (most of the time), people come to visit and they don't leave. Some of them make our state better, some of them are just there, and some of them need to go back under the rock they crawled out from LOLPhasers on stun gentlemen :D
MyNameIsTerry
29-08-20, 00:37
Phasers on stun gentlemen :D
Captain Kirk had only two 1st contact responses: punch it or sh@g it :biggrin:
MyNameIsTerry
29-08-20, 00:38
They're " just here" . So far they haven't really done much. They haven't caused any freeways to shut down or caused us to spend tax dollars on their security.
Edit: I'll add that Meghan was born here, so as long as she pays her taxes to our state, we're good.
Yeah, watch for those 'charitable foundations' :winks:
Sadly cheeky Charlie is paying for his son which likely means we still are.
Captain Kirk had only two 1st contact responses: punch it or sh@g it :biggrin:
Shag is a bad word? Since when?
So which camp are you in Terry? Meghan is a home-wrecker or Meghan is saving Harry?
MyNameIsTerry
29-08-20, 04:50
Ah ha, another divide across the pond. Shag might relate to a carpet, tobacco or a sea bird...but over here has long meant sex as well. Screwing something to us relates to someone with a screwdriver outside of US movies :biggrin:
She's not saving him. Saving someone doesn't involve cutting them off from the positives he had in his life.
But I don't see her as a homewrecker either (woman who steals married man?). I have always wondered whether she sees him as a stepping stone to the goals she wants to achieve because she was one of many actors fighting for roles until Harry. Every step has been to exit our country so I don't feel she ever wanted to be here but saw further Hollywood opportunities opening up with her much bigger name. I also question the possibility of narcissistic traits (common in actors?) Given how every step taken seems more to her future than his. It reminds me of people I've known.
He used to be one of the most popular royals. We used to see him getting involved with para athletes and injured soldiers. He gained a ton of respect for that. Spin forward to know and he is preaching about the environment in true celebrity virtue signalling style and selling his wares to corporates. He now comes across like all the z list celebs over here turning up to any event or falling out of a nightclub drunk for the paps (but will he have his undies on? :ohmy::blush:). Now he's about as popular as Randy Andy as a guest judge on Dance Moms :winks:
It's sad really, two inseparable brothers now divided. But he's also a cheeky sod trying to hang onto others paying his way despite sitting on personal wealth 99% of us can only dream of.
I can't say I like or dislike her, I few her as I view Hollywood shallow types. I don't think it will last though.
Anyone see the protests going on in Germany over the weekend? Any Germans out there who can give us a first-hand account?
Anyone see the protests going on in Germany over the weekend? Any Germans out there who can give us a first-hand account?
There were also protests in London, Paris and Zurich, but our BBC News seemed to give the Berlin protests the bulk of the coverage and only mentioned the others (including ours in central London) very briefly, which I reckon they were erring on the side of caution in order not to give those involved in said protests their fifteen minutes of fame, and inadvertently provoke further 'copycat' incidents in Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester, Newcastle, Leeds, Bristol, etc, so kudos to them (the BBC) for keeping yesterday's London protest as low-key as possible.
There were also protests in London, Paris and Zurich, but our BBC News seemed to give the Berlin protests the bulk of the coverage and only mentioned the others (including ours in central London) very briefly, which I reckon they were erring on the side of caution in order not to give those involved in said protests their fifteen minutes of fame, and inadvertently provoke further 'copycat' incidents in Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester, Newcastle, Leeds, Bristol, etc, so kudos to them (the BBC) for keeping yesterday's London protest as low-key as possible.
From my understanding, the protests in Germany were about covid policies there, and then some right-wing neo-nazi types came and starting getting violent. What were the ones in the UK about?
FYI: I get BBC News, and French news in English, and Israeli news, but I haven't watched any of those yet today. They're usually on around dinner time.
MyNameIsTerry
30-08-20, 22:41
The German protests have been a mixed bunch of left wing activists and even football hooligans. Germany opened the door to more protest with that earlier court case and it spread across other countries, some doing social distancing protests.
As I understand it there are greater fears of losing rights compared to a country like ours due to their recent history. They fear a return to fascism. Some do, some want it back like those neo nazies.
Is it their equivalent of US paranoia about needing guns & militias to hold back federal government?
Is it their equivalent of US paranoia about needing guns & militias to hold back federal government?
What's funny is that we have several groups of those people now... We have the right wing militia types who don't support Trump and had the feds, we have the right wing militia types that do support Trump and think we're all gonna have race wars, and then we have some of the left wing anarchists who also like their guns LOL
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