View Full Version : The vaccine
I’ve been thinking of starting a thread on this for some time now. I’m growing more concerned by the day, going through my own social media, to see the vast amounts of misinformation surrounding vaccination and, more alarmingly, folk swallowing it all.
My own mother has decided that she will not be taking a vaccine if and when it arises, and she is a healthcare worker who’s best friend died from Covid-19 in April. I discussed this with her and was alarmed at the amount of stock she seemed to put on anti-vax propaganda that’s being circulated on social media. As I said, she’s a frontline healthcare worker who has witnessed first hand what this disease does, both in a personal and professional setting.
So what is giving such concern? Why are folk all of a sudden turning against the idea of vaccination? Is the science actually flawed? Are people genuinely suffering horrific effects of vaccination worldwide?
My intent here is to welcome all views and, I promise, not to turn this into anything other than a discussion aimed at clearing the waters when it comes to vaccination. I feel this forum sees large amounts of folk who have difficulty trusting medicine and doctors so I think it’s a discussion worth having.
If you have doubts, what are they? Let’s see if we can have an open dialogue about this and get to the correct answer.
ankietyjoe
26-10-20, 13:36
People are swallowing it because society has turned into the herd like fvcking stupidity that was described in the film 'Idiocracy'.
Doesn't matter if you're related to them, they're fvcking idiots.
Just tell them to go read up on smallpox. 30% fatality rate for around 3000 years, and then a vaccine was discovered. If a vaccine hadn't been discovered, probably half of us here wouldn't even exist.
A vaccine is accelerated herd immunity. That's it. It stops people dying, but 'may' be a problem for a minute percentage of people. It's a numbers game, just like crossing the road.
Panicattacka
26-10-20, 13:47
I think the growing anti-vax movement is part of something much deeper and wider that goes back decades. Ever since JFK's assassination, the lies of the Vietnam War and Watergate, there's been growing distrust in Western countries about elites, leaders, institutions, etc. Look at the massive growth in conspiracy theories since the 1960s. 9/11 and the dubious Iraq War of 2003 only added fuel to the fire. Basically nobody trusts anyone anymore, and the rise of the internet and social media has only increased the paranoia.
I think the growing anti-vax movement is part of something much deeper and wider that goes back decades. Ever since JFK's assassination, the lies of the Vietnam War and Watergate, there's been growing distrust in Western countries about elites, leaders, institutions, etc. Look at the massive growth in conspiracy theories since the 1960s. 9/11 and the dubious Iraq War of 2003 only added fuel to the fire. Basically nobody trusts anyone anymore, and the rise of the internet and social media has only increased the paranoia.
I think you've hit the nail on the head there Panicattacka.
I think there's far too many know-it-alls in today's society, exacerbated by the Internet and social media and those who will just believe any load of old pony, regardless of whether it's true or false. I mean, look at all the big global kerfuffle over toilet rolls back in March due to some imbecille down under posting misinformation online about (false) shortages with possible anti- China agendas added to the mix!
MyNameIsTerry
26-10-20, 15:47
People are swallowing it because society has turned into the herd like fvcking stupidity that was described in the film 'Idiocracy'.
Doesn't matter if you're related to them, they're fvcking idiots.
Just tell them to go read up on smallpox. 30% fatality rate for around 3000 years, and then a vaccine was discovered. If a vaccine hadn't been discovered, probably half of us here wouldn't even exist.
A vaccine is accelerated herd immunity. That's it. It stops people dying, but 'may' be a problem for a minute percentage of people. It's a numbers game, just like crossing the road.
The interesting additional point I'd like to add is that such vaccines were discovered in far less scientific times. We are far more likely to create a safe controlled one now than back then.
But I think part of the problem is the 'big pharma' paranoia (whether warranted or not) and some people's politics. Nancy Pelosi's stunningly ignorant remarks over a UK derived vaccine being one example. People are very suspicious.
MyNameIsTerry
26-10-20, 15:49
What is her reasoning, Gary? You don't need to answer this but it's a curious one since she is closer to medicine.
Is she concerned about a rushed poorly tested vaccine?
What is her reasoning, Gary? You don't need to answer this but it's a curious one since she is closer to medicine.
Is she concerned about a rushed poorly tested vaccine?
Pretty much that Terry, yes.
I feel I need to point out, as I did to her, that while most vaccines take decades to approve, you have to take into account the prevalence of a particular virus that you’re testing against.
If you vaccinate 10,000 people for an efficacy trial you need to wait until a certain percentage of that 10,000 are infected before you can decipher an efficacy result. It’s a lot easier to do that with a virus that’s seeing tens of thousands of new infections per day worldwide than it is a virus seeing small events in remote parts of the planet.
Pamplemousse
26-10-20, 16:24
I understand that the UK is looking into deliberately infecting volunteers with the virus and then using the vaccine to see how well it works.
I understand that the UK is looking into deliberately infecting volunteers with the virus and then using the vaccine to see how well it works.
Yes, challenger trials. You vaccinate then expose the person to the virus to see if they fight off the virus. This is due to start in January.
The interesting additional point I'd like to add is that such vaccines were discovered in far less scientific times. We are far more likely to create a safe controlled one now than back then.
Exactly this Terry. Edward Jenner and his curiosity over why milk maids never seemed to contract smallpox. He found that when they contracted cowpox from the cows, a milder disease than smallpox, this provided cross immunity. Jenner died in 1823, so unless CTs go back as far as this, I don't see why people are so fearful of a Covid jab. Covid the disease or Covid the vaccine, I know which one I'd choose.
Exactly this Terry. Edward Jenner and his curiosity over why milk maids never seemed to contract smallpox. He found that when they contracted cowpox from the cows, a milder disease than smallpox, this provided cross immunity. Jenner died in 1823, so unless CTs go back as far as this, I don't see why people are so fearful of a Covid jab. Covid the disease or Covid the vaccine, I know which one I'd choose.
Not only that, he literally took pus from an open wound and applied it to someone to give immunity.
My thoughts on it are mixed. Just based on previous vaccine timelines and even taking into account the accelerated timeline of development is that its possible to have a vaccine out by the end of the year. That said, there's a lot of "IFs" involved. The key is that it doesn't cause ill effects. Even if its 50% effective and doesn't cause serious side effects, that's a positive. There's no way they're going to manufacture millions and millions of doses that quickly so initially, the front line workers will be the guinea pigs. They'll be able to tweak it from there and we're realistically looking at Spring or Summer of '21 before its widely available.
Concerning if I'll get it?.... I'll listen to the medical and scientific experts.
Positive thoughts
ankietyjoe
27-10-20, 16:31
I think what a lot of people are missing here is that the ramifications of not having a vaccine aren't actually about public health as they are 'the end of civilisation as we know it'.
It might sound melodramatic, but without the vaccine the kind of lockdowns we are seeing now will have to occur on an ad hoc basis for several years. I'm not one to worship the economy, but without the vaccine life as we know it WILL be over. It might be better on the other side, who knows, but changes will be enormous.
But, to just poo poo vaccinations because 'I'm anti vaccination' is just pure, concentrated ignorance.
MrLondon86
27-10-20, 17:25
Thankfully the anti-vax movement is losing a lot of steam with a bunch of science/medically-literate Youtube channels debunking their claims with thoroughly explained videos and evidence. I've yet to see a virologist or microbiologist saying vaccines don't work or cause all these problems these ct's claim they do, however these anti-vaxxers love to peddle disinformation from people that have bought their fake doctorate and their pseudo homeopathic medicines. Just like flat-earthers, anti-vaxxers will fizzle out.
I think what a lot of people are missing here is that the ramifications of not having a vaccine aren't actually about public health as they are 'the end of civilisation as we know it'.
It might sound melodramatic, but without the vaccine the kind of lockdowns we are seeing now will have to occur on an ad hoc basis for several years. I'm not one to worship the economy, but without the vaccine life as we know it WILL be over. It might be better on the other side, who knows, but changes will be enormous.
But, to just poo poo vaccinations because 'I'm anti vaccination' is just pure, concentrated ignorance.
The most ill informed argument I’ve witnessed amongst friends of mine and work colleagues is the whole “they have a flu vaccine but people still die from flu, so what’s the point.”
Guess what folks, when we have a Covid vaccine people will still die from Covid. This all or nothing “thinking” is just another piece of propaganda pushed by the anti-vax movement.
Vaccines aren’t magic, they are literally a trick played on your body to make it think it is being invaded by a particular pathogen when in reality it isn’t. How your body responds is an absolute minefield. Generally, if a vaccine causes little to no adverse effects and is around 50% effective then it is approved.
In what universe is 50% protection equated with no protection at all? It’s pretty much accepted that the early Covid vaccines will offer protection as far as reducing symptoms but may fall short in fully blocking the virus itself. Again, if this virus infects you while only being capable of producing mild symptoms at worst, then that’s an absolute win isn’t it?
The most ill informed argument I’ve witnessed amongst friends of mine and work colleagues is the whole “they have a flu vaccine but people still die from flu, so what’s the point.”
Guess what folks, when we have a Covid vaccine people will still die from Covid. This all or nothing “thinking” is just another piece of propaganda pushed by the anti-vax movement.
Vaccines aren’t magic, they are literally a trick played on your body to make it think it is being invaded by a particular pathogen when in reality it isn’t. How your body responds is an absolute minefield. Generally, if a vaccine causes little to no adverse effects and is around 50% effective then it is approved.
In what universe is 50% protection equated with no protection at all? It’s pretty much accepted that the early Covid vaccines will offer protection as far as reducing symptoms but may fall short in fully blocking the virus itself. Again, if this virus infects you while only being capable of producing mild symptoms at worst, then that’s an absolute win isn’t it?Precisely Gary. The 50% figure makes it sound as though its half-baked but is misleading. I'd take a 50% effective vaccine any day when, as you say, symptoms and damaging effects will likely be much reduced.
In today's DM was an article about levels of antibodies falling rapidly and the possibility of being re-infected as with the common cold. This got me on a real downer until Dr Campbell's video today when he reminded us that people infected with Sars Cov 1 in 2002/03 still have memory and killer T-cells to this day. He expects our Covid to be no different as the two are very similar. I hope he's right.
Precisely Gary. The 50% figure makes it sound as though its half-baked but is misleading. I'd take a 50% effective vaccine any day when, as you say, symptoms and damaging effects will likely be much reduced.
In today's DM was an article about levels of antibodies falling rapidly and the possibility of being re-infected as with the common cold. This got me on a real downer until Dr Campbell's video today when he reminded us that people infected with Sars Cov 1 in 2002/03 still have memory and killer T-cells to this day. He expects our Covid to be no different as the two are very similar. I hope he's right.
I personally wonder whether or not the very few alleged Covid reinfections might actually have been more to do with 'long Covid', which we have only recently started to become more aware of and possibly mistaken for reinfections, or at least some of them?
Precisely Gary. The 50% figure makes it sound as though its half-baked but is misleading. I'd take a 50% effective vaccine any day when, as you say, symptoms and damaging effects will likely be much reduced.
In today's DM was an article about levels of antibodies falling rapidly and the possibility of being re-infected as with the common cold. This got me on a real downer until Dr Campbell's video today when he reminded us that people infected with Sars Cov 1 in 2002/03 still have memory and killer T-cells to this day. He expects our Covid to be no different as the two are very similar. I hope he's right.
The antibody studies and the sensationalistic headlines attached to them are utter drivel. The immune system has so many different arms that to instantly dismiss longer term immunity due to declining antibody levels is just amateur hour, it really is.
The only way to confirm longer term immunity is to test for reinfection. Think of how many millions of infections there have been worldwide. How many cases of reinfection have been reported? And I mean true reinfection, not reactivation. 4? 5 maybe?
Naturally acquired immunity to this virus is almost certain to last at least a year, possibly longer, but what would happen if that was made public? People who assumed, without confirmed testing, that they had the virus would flout any rules because they would believe they were immune.
Very few viruses give short term immunity, and it’s almost always the case that the milder the virus the shorter term the immunity is. When the media compare SARS-COV-2 to coronaviruses that cause common colds they’re being utterly disingenuous.
I personally wonder whether or not the very few alleged Covid reinfections might actually have been more to do with 'long Covid', which we have only recently started to become more aware of and possibly mistaken for reinfections, or at least some of them?
There have been around 4 or 5 actual reinfections, whereby the offending virus was sequenced and confirmed as a different strain than the previous. If the two strains and sequences are the same that’s not reinfection, that’s reactivation.
It’s really not a question anymore, reinfection from SARS-COV-2 within one year at least is almost an impossibility.
Thankfully the anti-vax movement is losing a lot of steam with a bunch of science/medically-literate Youtube channels debunking their claims with thoroughly explained videos and evidence. I've yet to see a virologist or microbiologist saying vaccines don't work or cause all these problems these ct's claim they do, however these anti-vaxxers love to peddle disinformation from people that have bought their fake doctorate and their pseudo homeopathic medicines. Just like flat-earthers, anti-vaxxers will fizzle out.
It does seem like a lot of the anti-vaxxers and CTers in general are like crazed religious lunatics with extremist agendas.
There has already been speculation about security being beefed up at major hospitals that may be the first to administer the first Covid vaccines in order to keep the places from being hijacked by baying mobs of protesting antivaxxers and CTers.
I will definitely get the vaccine, but I will probably wait a little bit until more individuals have had it. I work with biosafety researchers and they are all pro-vax, but not being at the front of the line when a new vaccine comes out.
As for conspiracy theories surrounding the vaccine, I've seen so many. My favorite is those who think the government will be putting trackers in them via the vaccine. It's just absolutely impossible.
I will definitely get the vaccine, but I will probably wait a little bit until more individuals have had it. I work with biosafety researchers and they are all pro-vax, but not being at the front of the line when a new vaccine comes out.
As for conspiracy theories surrounding the vaccine, I've seen so many. My favorite is those who think the government will be putting trackers in them via the vaccine. It's just absolutely impossible.Hi Poppy, I have a friend who believes this. The trouble is that these ridiculous theories are believed by an alarmingly high number of people.
Pamplemousse
30-10-20, 20:12
People are already tracked: well, anyone with a mobile phone is. How many will give up their mobiles to become anonymous? Their bank cards? In the UK, ANPR cameras track their cars, if they have them. Will they solely use public transport? Oh no, that's got CCTV.
Oh sorry - the vaccine? Definitely.
What I don't understand is the need for volunteers to be infected with the virus to then act as Guinea pigs to be tested when there are already people infected that they can ask to volunteer. Isn't this just infecting more of the virus into the community. If someone says a small dose for testing purposes. A dose is a dose. And what might be small to one person, is massive to another.
Remember not so long ago we were not to touch any plastic, cardboard or paper for x amount of time.
But in answer to the post.
I know many people that will not take the vaccine, purely because they are afraid to take it and uncertainty of its reactions. Nothing to do with anti this or that or a rebellious movement of sorts.
What I don't understand is the need for volunteers to be infected with the virus to then act as Guinea pigs to be tested when there are already people infected that they can ask to volunteer. Isn't this just infecting more of the virus into the community. If someone says a small dose for testing purposes. A dose is a dose. And what might be small to one person, is massive to another.
Remember not so long ago we were not to touch any plastic, cardboard or paper for x amount of time.
But in answer to the post.
I know many people that will not take the vaccine, purely because they are afraid to take it and uncertainty of its reactions. Nothing to do with anti this or that or a rebellious movement of sorts.
Well I guess in fairness, whether or not people take the vaccine is their prerogative, no one is forcing them.
We no longer bother to sanitise our shopping anymore either, we just wash our hands thoroughly after touching anything coming in from outside, using the toilet and before eating/drinking.
People are already tracked: well, anyone with a mobile phone is. How many will give up their mobiles to become anonymous? Their bank cards? In the UK, ANPR cameras track their cars, if they have them. Will they solely use public transport? Oh no, that's got CCTV.
Oh sorry - the vaccine? Definitely.
Exactly, and hardly anyone seems to bat an eyelid over the gazillion other ways of potentially being tracked.
And I'm sure it's still not even possible to insert super-intelligent microchips into ones own blood via a brand new vaccine. Nothing like that's even been invented yet AFAIK.
ankietyjoe
31-10-20, 12:16
Maybe it's all a double bluff to eliminate stupidity.
"Sure, you have a choice to not have the vaccine. RIP"
Pamplemousse
31-10-20, 12:19
What I don't understand is the need for volunteers to be infected with the virus to then act as Guinea pigs to be tested when there are already people infected that they can ask to volunteer.
There aren't enough of them (!!) and it cannot be observed in a controlled manner.
What I don't understand is the need for volunteers to be infected with the virus to then act as Guinea pigs to be tested when there are already people infected that they can ask to volunteer. Isn't this just infecting more of the virus into the community. If someone says a small dose for testing purposes. A dose is a dose. And what might be small to one person, is massive to another.
That’s not really how it works. The challenger trials vaccinate people then expose them to the virus. This allows precise tracking of protection, or lack thereof, from the virus.
The trials going on right now rely on a certain percentage of volunteers contracting the virus out in the public, so clearly a trial which directly exposes vaccinated folk in a controlled setting will give results within days rather than weeks or months.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QvvMDw6YQw
I can't believe this. I get the feeling this is just going to go on forever.
You know what though? If this really is ground zero again, square one, then we as a species are entirely responsible. If we didn't exploit our fellow creatures, crush entirely different animals into tiny cages on an industrial scale, then we might be able to co-exist with nature in harmony. I keep hearing that this virus is not man made, but it is completely. By human infringement on and simultaneous destruction of the planet's ecosystem, year after year, decade on decade.
Pamplemousse
07-11-20, 13:27
This is worrying me intensely.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54851042
ankietyjoe
07-11-20, 13:46
"The coronavirus, like all viruses, mutates over time, but there is no evidence that any of the mutations pose an increased danger to people".
Guys, worry about it when there's something to actually worry about. It's something for scientists to keep an eye on at this point, to for you to jump to conclusions over.
MyNameIsTerry
07-11-20, 13:58
Perhaps it might encourage Denmark to ban their fur farms... :whistles:
Viruses mutate, that’s just what they do. Some viruses, like influenza, mutate with such regularity that the vaccines used to combat them change from year to year.
Coronaviruses don’t mutate with the same consistency, and they also don’t mutate enough to render vaccination useless.
The body defeats coronaviruses with the use of antibodies that bind to spike proteins on the viral spores. These proteins are on literally every coronavirus viral spore. Indeed, it is only named a “coronavirus” as it looks like the solar corona, the outer layer of the suns atmosphere.
Any mutation that changes the shape of that protein will obviously pose a problem, but scientists know that possibility and they know that if and when it happens, they’ll have to adapt along with it.
Chill out, in all likelihood this new strain has been contained and as mentioned above, there’s not a shred of evidence to suggest it’s either a more infectious or deadly strain.
MyNameIsTerry
07-11-20, 16:17
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1107/1176584-coronavirus-mink/
Let's hope this leads to something good. Other countries to finally ban fur farming.
It's long overdue the EU banned all fur farming. We banned it in 2000.
Are these the countries that have been taking the moral high ground over China recently? :whistles:
Whilst this current scare about mink in Denmark is most certainly a cause for concern, at least the authorities both there and here are responding to said scare swiftly by both culling all mink in Denmark, imposing strict lockdowns there and the UK has swiftly removed Denmark from its travel corridor plus also ordered everyone returning from there to self-isolate for at least 14 days.
At least the authorities are acting pronto and haven't been caught napping this time round, even though there will no doubt be some smart alec somewhere that will assume otherwise.
Also, the WHO urged us all not to jump to conclusions at this stage over this Danish Covid mink scare.
MyNameIsTerry
07-11-20, 17:01
Sorry, Lencoboy but it's easy to cull. The farmers will perhaps get compensated. The trade goes on.
Lots of dead animals. Perhaps the only small mercy is they are no longer suffering.
Sorry, Lencoboy but it's easy to cull. The farmers will perhaps get compensated. The trade goes on.
Lots of dead animals. Perhaps the only small mercy is they are no longer suffering.This was my primary concern Terry, there are pictures of bulldozer buckets full of dead mink being buried in landfill. Like so much trash and just so people can say their hat or coat is made of real fur. Its the industrial scale exploitation of animals and the natural world that nobody IMO should 'chill out' over.
Some good news on the Pfizer vaccine.
(See BBC News website for details).
www.bbc.co.uk/news
Pamplemousse
09-11-20, 17:49
My big worry is that with this news, people will be lax now and cases will go up rapidly.
My big worry is that with this news, people will be lax now and cases will go up rapidly.
Or maybe they won't as the "as near normal as possible" Christmas carrot was dangled..
Pamplemousse
09-11-20, 18:46
Or maybe they won't as the "as near normal as possible" Christmas carrot was dangled..
I'll believe it when I see it.
Pity I still don't have a working freezer - the M&S Christmas Dinner For One looks lovely :)
I'll believe it when I see it.
Pity I still don't have a working freezer - the M&S Christmas Dinner For One looks lovely :)
Could you try and book an Ocado delivery?
This is good news about the vaccine, I’m so pleased. Hang in there PM x
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Pamplemousse
09-11-20, 21:10
Could you try and book an Ocado delivery?
This is good news about the vaccine, I’m so pleased. Hang in there PM x
Thanks, Scass.
I could try and book a delivery, I suppose.
I'm trying very hard to keep an even head on this but in reality I am still going to work and still spending much of the day thinking "is today the day I catch the disease that will kill me?" :weep:
I may not even see Christmas...
90% efficacy is absolutely amazing for the first vaccine to produce results. It really bodes well for other vaccines as most are targeting the same spike protein that this vaccine does.
It also gives another boost to the idea of naturally acquired immunity as the antibodies produced in response to infection also latch on to the coronavirus spike protein.
This truly is the best news we’ve had since the beginning of this pandemic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RSAfRMrd8w
Dr Campbell is excited :D Let's hope this is a turning point.
PM - is there no way you can shield until this vaccine hits the streets?
Pamplemousse
09-11-20, 21:51
PM - is there no way you can shield until this vaccine hits the streets?
In a word, no. I owe a lot of money and I've no other means of support.
MyNameIsTerry
10-11-20, 03:07
This was my primary concern Terry, there are pictures of bulldozer buckets full of dead mink being buried in landfill. Like so much trash and just so people can say their hat or coat is made of real fur. Its the industrial scale exploitation of animals and the natural world that nobody IMO should 'chill out' over.
It's awful. Whenever we do this with cattle or birds it's the same. But there is no justififation for the fur trade in this day & age other than to adorn rich women.
They aren't living creatures to them. Just widgets on a spreadsheet. Next week back to putting them in horrendous conditions.
ankietyjoe
10-11-20, 09:28
Thanks, Scass.
I could try and book a delivery, I suppose.
I'm trying very hard to keep an even head on this but in reality I am still going to work and still spending much of the day thinking "is today the day I catch the disease that will kill me?" :weep:
I may not even see Christmas...
Dude, cut out the hyper negative self talk.
You might get it (we all might), but it's highly unlikely to kill you.
Pamplemousse
10-11-20, 11:37
Dude, cut out the hyper negative self talk.
You might get it (we all might), but it's highly unlikely to kill you.
BMI >40;
Hypertension;
Type II diabetes.
You still sure it ain't gonna kill me?
BMI >40;
Hypertension;
Type II diabetes.
You still sure it ain't gonna kill me?
He didn’t say he was sure, he said it’s highly unlikely to kill you, which it is. Considering the good measures you put in place in protecting yourself and the odds of even catching it still fairly slim, you’re literally jumping hurdles to go from having a slim chance of contracting Covid-19 to it instantaneously killing you.
We should all be vigilant and we should all do our bit to reduce spread, but you aren’t being hunted by a monster. There’s a slim chance of dying in a car crash, so you put on your seatbelt and drive carefully. Clearly that doesn’t guarantee your safety, but it sure helps. There’s a slim chance of contracting Covid-19, so put on your mask and wash your hands. Again, that doesn’t guarantee your safety, but it helps.
If you go through life trying to be sure that things won’t hurt you then you’ll be a rather unhappy man. Just try your best to stay safe and for goodness sake stop telling yourself that your life is at risk. All of our lives, for various reasons, are at risk when we step foot out of the door. All we can do is try to reduce those risks and get on with it.
BMI >40;
Hypertension;
Type II diabetes.
You still sure it ain't gonna kill me?
I know this doesn't help with your immediate fear of Covid PM, (and it's understandable that you are worried) but if these conditions are due to you being overweight, isn't it the case that it's possible to reverse them?
Pamplemousse
10-11-20, 13:10
I know this doesn't help with your immediate fear of Covid PM, (and it's understandable that you are worried) but if these conditions are due to you being overweight, isn't it the case that it's possible to reverse them?
If dieting was easy everyone would do it. People simply do not understand the major impact that depression and low self-esteem has upon diet - anyone who says "it's easy - eat less, move more" is a simpleton who deserves a beating.
Sure, I could try but every other attempt has failed miserably so why should this be different? As for the "but you could cure your diabetes" stuff - you can't cure diabetes, you can only put it into remission.
WiredIncorrectly
10-11-20, 13:19
I've just been doing some research on the Pfizer vaccine. Am I correct that it's an RNA vaccine?
I don't want to scare, or talk rubbish crap, but there has been no approved RNA vaccine ... ever. If it is RNA vaccine I won't touch it for personal reasons; and for reasons why an RNA vaccine has never been approved.
I was reading this: https://www.barrons.com/articles/everything-we-know-about-pfizers-covid-19-vaccine-51604935908 ... it mentions a few times about their stock price increasing and investors. It's stupid that even during a pandemic people want to make a profit :roflmao:
Just my 2 cents.
If dieting was easy everyone would do it. People simply do not understand the major impact that depression and low self-esteem has upon diet - anyone who says "it's easy - eat less, move more" is a simpleton who deserves a beating.
Sure, I could try but every other attempt has failed miserably so why should this be different? As for the "but you could cure your diabetes" stuff - you can't cure diabetes, you can only put it into remission.
I don’t doubt that dieting is extremely tough, but surely it’s not nearly as tough as going around telling yourself that today might be the day that you contract a virus that could kill you.
The whole “eat less do more” argument might be a bit simplistic, but it is the answer. Of course it isn’t easy, of course saying it is a lot easier than doing it, but I honestly feel it may actually do your mental health some good. At least it might make you feel that you’re in control rather than at something else’s mercy.
I won't be having one neither will my son, not sure whether my Partner will.
Not read the thread all through, but that's my personal opinion about the vaccine.
I won't be having one neither will my son, not sure whether my Partner will.
Not read the thread all through, but that's my personal opinion about the vaccine.
I honestly think it’ll be the best part of two years before people under the age of 50 will be offered it.
I've just been doing some research on the Pfizer vaccine. Am I correct that it's an RNA vaccine?
I don't want to scare, or talk rubbish crap, but there has been no approved RNA vaccine ... ever. If it is RNA vaccine I won't touch it for personal reasons; and for reasons why an RNA vaccine has never been approved.
I was reading this: https://www.barrons.com/articles/everything-we-know-about-pfizers-covid-19-vaccine-51604935908 ... it mentions a few times about their stock price increasing and investors. It's stupid that even during a pandemic people want to make a profit :roflmao:
Just my 2 cents.
Chances are that by the time younger folk are offered it it’ll be the AstroZeneca vaccine, which isn’t an mRNA type, that’s on offer.
Pamplemousse
10-11-20, 17:58
We should all be vigilant and we should all do our bit to reduce spread, but you aren’t being hunted by a monster.
[...]
If you go through life trying to be sure that things won’t hurt you then you’ll be a rather unhappy man. Just try your best to stay safe and for goodness sake stop telling yourself that your life is at risk.
In reverse order: that's pretty much how I have spent the last 30 years of my life. Be it heavy metal exposure, asbestos, cancer (not helped by reading of the case of a 39 year old local today with bowel cancer), heart trouble or hernias, one soon replaces the other in the carousel.
The former? It's exactly how I feel. Everywhere I go, everyone I see, everyone who talks to me - I feel like they're the attack vector for this disease purging the world of the weak, sick and elderly.
You're still here despite all the pessimism. My bet is that you'll outlive all of us
If dieting was easy everyone would do it. People simply do not understand the major impact that depression and low self-esteem has upon diet - anyone who says "it's easy - eat less, move more" is a simpleton who deserves a beating.
Sure, I could try but every other attempt has failed miserably so why should this be different? As for the "but you could cure your diabetes" stuff - you can't cure diabetes, you can only put it into remission.PM, I completely understand the effects of depression, low self esteem and of course anxiety on motivation. Almost everyone on these boards do. They grind you down, day in day out. So we're all in similar boats.
But do you know what? I see you going off to work, holding down a job and find myself thinking 'I wish I could do that'. I'm a carer for Mrs F but its not a 'real' job as I see it, more a duty of love. And that brings me to the loss of your wife. That is my own worst nightmare too and yet you are surviving it. I won't say survived because you won't fully get over it and wouldn't want to. What would our wife be saying now? Could you use such an awful tragedy as a spur to turn your health around? Would she be telling you to live your life to its greatest potential?
Two years ago I weighed 23st. I would shovel cakes biscuits and chocolate into my mouth without a second thought. Those big chocolate trifles they do at Asda and other supermarkets, I'd sit in front of the TV and eat the lot even though it serves 6. But after an obsession that I had heart disease which saw me on a treadmill at our hospital's cardio unit, I decided I had to do something. So I started walking, choosing the steepest streets. After making this a habit I weighed about 21st in January this year, then 20 by May after I added an exercise bike. The bike, combined with a calorie counting app and still walking, has got me to 16st 3.5lbs today. Though the bike packed up so am doing cardio workouts on youtube.
The thing about exercise though is it gets easier the more you do it. Once you push through the apathy towards fitness, you find yourself beginning to enjoy it. Even addicted which I really thought I would never say. Diet can be changed too, I don't miss all the junk now but still allow myself 'treats'. I know there's nothing more annoying than somebody saying you can change your life around, but you're stronger than you realise mate, I really believe that.
WiredIncorrectly
10-11-20, 19:45
The thing about exercise though is it gets easier the more you do it. Once you push through the apathy towards fitness, you find yourself beginning to enjoy it. Even addicted which I really thought I would never say. Diet can be changed too, I don't miss all the junk now but still allow myself 'treats'. I know there's nothing more annoying than somebody saying you can change your life around, but you're stronger than you realise mate, I really believe that.
It's the opposite for me. I can exercise for a month and feel ontop of the world. The exercise at some point becomes normal to the point where doesn't help my anxiety and I end up with exercise anxiety. It's a constant circle, a few weeks later I end up back on the exercise.
:shrug:
PM, I completely understand the effects of depression, low self esteem and of course anxiety on motivation. Almost everyone on these boards do. They grind you down, day in day out. So we're all in similar boats.
But do you know what? I see you going off to work, holding down a job and find myself thinking 'I wish I could do that'. I'm a carer for Mrs F but its not a 'real' job as I see it, more a duty of love. And that brings me to the loss of your wife. That is my own worst nightmare too and yet you are surviving it. I won't say survived because you won't fully get over it and wouldn't want to. What would our wife be saying now? Could you use such an awful tragedy as a spur to turn your health around? Would she be telling you to live your life to its greatest potential?
Two years ago I weighed 23st. I would shovel cakes biscuits and chocolate into my mouth without a second thought. Those big chocolate trifles they do at Asda and other supermarkets, I'd sit in front of the TV and eat the lot even though it serves 6. But after an obsession that I had heart disease which saw me on a treadmill at our hospital's cardio unit, I decided I had to do something. So I started walking, choosing the steepest streets. After making this a habit I weighed about 21st in January this year, then 20 by May after I added an exercise bike. The bike, combined with a calorie counting app and still walking, has got me to 16st 3.5lbs today. Though the bike packed up so am doing cardio workouts on youtube.
The thing about exercise though is it gets easier the more you do it. Once you push through the apathy towards fitness, you find yourself beginning to enjoy it. Even addicted which I really thought I would never say. Diet can be changed too, I don't miss all the junk now but still allow myself 'treats'. I know there's nothing more annoying than somebody saying you can change your life around, but you're stronger than you realise mate, I really believe that.
Losing almost 7 stones in two years is absolutely brilliant, well done.
It's the opposite for me. I can exercise for a month and feel ontop of the world. The exercise at some point becomes normal to the point where doesn't help my anxiety and I end up with exercise anxiety. It's a constant circle, a few weeks later I end up back on the exercise.
:shrug:Oh I'm not saying exercise is any kind of cure Wired. I get anxiety triggers if my arms or legs feel wobbly after exertion. I won't do exercise in the morning when I have things to do, its always the evening where aches/shakiness will have dissipated by morning. So do you mean that thinking about exercising causes anxiety?
Losing almost 7 stones in two years is absolutely brilliant, well done.Thanks Gary. I certainly don't want to return to how I was and being 55 now, I need to look after myself.
It's the opposite for me. I can exercise for a month and feel ontop of the world. The exercise at some point becomes normal to the point where doesn't help my anxiety and I end up with exercise anxiety. It's a constant circle, a few weeks later I end up back on the exercise.
:shrug:
Exercise can become addictive very quickly.
ankietyjoe
10-11-20, 20:46
I've just been doing some research on the Pfizer vaccine. Am I correct that it's an RNA vaccine?
I don't want to scare, or talk rubbish crap, but there has been no approved RNA vaccine ... ever. If it is RNA vaccine I won't touch it for personal reasons; and for reasons why an RNA vaccine has never been approved.
I was reading this: https://www.barrons.com/articles/everything-we-know-about-pfizers-covid-19-vaccine-51604935908 ... it mentions a few times about their stock price increasing and investors. It's stupid that even during a pandemic people want to make a profit :roflmao:
Just my 2 cents.
We've had this conversation before dude.
None of us are qualified to second guess the efficacy or safety of a vaccine, especially not off the back of yet another online article.
Medicine has a long history of using new techniques to provide cures for disease.
Your research isn't research. Reading articles online is simply not research.
WiredIncorrectly
10-11-20, 21:34
We've had this conversation before dude.
None of us are qualified to second guess the efficacy or safety of a vaccine, especially not off the back of yet another online article.
Medicine has a long history of using new techniques to provide cures for disease.
Your research isn't research. Reading articles online is simply not research.
I get what you're saying Joe and I completely understand your position. But the fact remains that no RNA vaccine has every been approved for human use.
Pfizer's vaccine is mRNA are they're not hiding it, it's no conspiracy mate. Here's Pfizer's very own press release from back in July. That's what I was reading from during our last discussion: https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-choose-lead-mrna-vaccine-candidate-0
I'm not trying to install fear. I am not saying nothing of conspiracy. I'm just pointing out the important part ... no RNA vaccine has ever been approved because of the unknown risks of RNA vaccine's long term.
All love "broski". Friends can have different opinions and be able to discuss :bighug1:
Ps. I only deal with facts when it concerns COVID. If something isn't factual I will not say it.
WiredIncorrectly
10-11-20, 21:42
Oh I'm not saying exercise is any kind of cure Wired. I get anxiety triggers if my arms or legs feel wobbly after exertion. I won't do exercise in the morning when I have things to do, its always the evening where aches/shakiness will have dissipated by morning. So do you mean that thinking about exercising causes anxiety?
Exercise is definitely helpful. A cure? Not sure about that one. I love it after a good workout. I love the next day when my muscles are feeling it. It gives me a confidence boost that I feel great. But, after a while I will exercise and stop getting those boosts of confidence. My anxiety will creep in and then I get scared to exercise. It's obviously the anxiety doing it's magic here. What I meant to say is it's a struggle going around in circles having periods of exercise and then being scared to exercise.
Yes pulisa it most definitely can become addictive.
I get what you're saying Joe and I completely understand your position. But the fact remains that no RNA vaccine has every been approved for human use.
Pfizer's vaccine is mRNA are they're not hiding it, it's no conspiracy mate. Here's Pfizer's very own press release from back in July. That's what I was reading from during our last discussion: https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-choose-lead-mrna-vaccine-candidate-0
I'm not trying to install fear. I am not saying nothing of conspiracy. I'm just pointing out the important part ... no RNA vaccine has ever been approved because of the unknown risks of RNA vaccine's long term.
All love "broski". Friends can have different opinions and be able to discuss :bighug1:
Ps. I only deal with facts when it concerns COVID. If something isn't factual I will not say it.
RNA has been tested in humans since 1990, specifically for cancer treatments and prevention. The reason an mRNA vaccine has never been approved is because, fortunately, there hasn’t been a large enough pandemic to attract the billions of investment it needs to be mass tested and produced.
Medicine is a business. Nothing gets things moving like the potential for money men/women to make more money. Such is life.
Thanks Gary. I certainly don't want to return to how I was and being 55 now, I need to look after myself.
I wish my dad were like you. He’s in his late 50’s, has heart disease, yet his idea of adjusting his bad habits is to put a bit of lime cordial in his pint of beer and call it one of his 5 a day.
WiredIncorrectly
10-11-20, 22:11
RNA has been tested in humans since 1990, specifically for cancer treatments and prevention. The reason an mRNA vaccine has never been approved is because, fortunately, there hasn’t been a large enough pandemic to attract the billions of investment it needs to be mass tested and produced.
I assume you're quoting wiki?
The mode of mRNA uptake has been known for over a decade,[17] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_vaccine#cite_note-17)[18] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_vaccine#cite_note-18) and the use of RNA as a vaccine tool was discovered in the 1990s in the form of self-amplifying mRNA.[19] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_vaccine#cite_note-19) It has also emerged that the different routes of injection (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injection_(medicine)), such as into the skin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin), blood (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood) or to muscles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle), resulted in varying levels of mRNA uptake, making the choice of administration route a critical aspect of delivery. Kreiter et al. demonstrated, in comparing different routes, that lymph node (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lymph_node) injection leads to the largest T cell response.[20] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_vaccine#cite_note-20) The mechanisms and consequently the evaluation of self-amplifying mRNA could be different, as they are fundamentally different by being a much bigger molecule in size.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_vaccine#cite_note-:0-1)
Scroll up to the "Adverse effects and risks" part. They're very significant and that's the reason there's never been an RNA vaccine, not because a lack of funding.
Medicine is a business. Nothing gets things moving like the potential for money men/women to make more money. Such is life.
Wall street is messy business.
WiredIncorrectly
10-11-20, 22:17
There's a great introduction to RNA vaccines here for anyone interested: https://www.phgfoundation.org/briefing/rna-vaccines
Pamplemousse
10-11-20, 22:46
But do you know what? I see you going off to work, holding down a job and find myself thinking 'I wish I could do that'. I'm a carer for Mrs F but its not a 'real' job as I see it, more a duty of love. And that brings me to the loss of your wife. That is my own worst nightmare too and yet you are surviving it. I won't say survived because you won't fully get over it and wouldn't want to. What would our wife be saying now? Could you use such an awful tragedy as a spur to turn your health around? Would she be telling you to live your life to its greatest potential?
Towards the end of Mrs. PM's life, I was in full-time employment in a job of considerable responsibility and then when I came home, my next job started. Empty the commode, change dressings, make dinner if it was early enough, help her into bed, that sort of thing. Stay up all night with her when she got overwhelmed and broke down, lie to work the next morning saying I'd got the shits when in fact, I was just exhausted.
And yet... I was never entirely sure what was going on in her head. For all I know, she might have grown to hate me and the situation she found herself in but I'll never know now.
So to be honest, I'll just have to put up with that most extreme example of cognitive dissonance; simultaneously afraid of dying yet wishing it was all over.
I assume you're quoting wiki?
Scroll up to the "Adverse effects and risks" part. They're very significant and that's the reason there's never been an RNA vaccine, not because a lack of funding.
Wall street is messy business.
No, I wasn’t quoting “wiki”, although I did read it after your post. The adverse reactions noted are clearly from early findings. My point being that if the type of funding we’re seeing being thrown at it recently would have happened 30 years ago we would quite probably have mRNA vaccines as the go to rather than the new kid on the block.
My larger point is that people aren’t looking at the bigger picture if they’re only looking along the lines of “one has never been approved therefore I’m not sure.” The technology has been known about for decades, the potential for this type of vaccine to replace conventional types has been known about for almost as long. If the interest in finding and funding newer vaccine technologies had been available before now then those “adverse risk and reactions” would be old news.
It’s also worth noting that much of the hubbub about vaccination comes from the addition of adjuvants, which are added to produce more robust immune responses. If adjuvants aren’t present and a vaccine still produces an immune response from both B and killer T cells, this is actually a far less risky form of vaccination.
However, I’m glad we’re going back and forth with this. We’re never going to reach a conclusion unless we all get our pros and cons out into the open. I’m frankly disgusted with the lack of scientific data being made public at this point, it should be out in the open for all of us to dissect, discuss and base our decisions on.
MyNameIsTerry
11-11-20, 01:49
Gary, isn't that part of medicine: stifling one treatment until the cheaper, current methods no longer work? This one is mega money so it makes sense that now the work finally gets done. Not long ago Pfizer were doing that with generics to try to lengthen their patents.
As for older tech suddenly becoming popular it wouldn't be the only example in medicine. I'm reminded of certain mood disorder treatments that have been known about for a couple of decades that just didn't get the research until more recent times.
The volunteers for this vaccine are the unsung heroes/heroines in all this.
I think I'd rather wait for the Oxford vaccine though if it's still needed by the time I'm eligible for any jab. My guess is that the virus will have burnt itself out by then anyway.
WiredIncorrectly
11-11-20, 14:47
The volunteers for this vaccine are the unsung heroes/heroines in all this.
I think I'd rather wait for the Oxford vaccine though if it's still needed by the time I'm eligible for any jab. My guess is that the virus will have burnt itself out by then anyway.
That is true, and something easily overlooked. Those who are testing this are brave warriors. It's not something I could do.
Pamplemousse
11-11-20, 15:03
The volunteers for this vaccine are the unsung heroes/heroines in all this.
I think I'd rather wait for the Oxford vaccine though if it's still needed by the time I'm eligible for any jab. My guess is that the virus will have burnt itself out by then anyway.
Currently the sector I fall in is either sixth or seventh according to the JCVI guidelines at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/priority-groups-for-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-advice-from-the-jcvi-25-september-2020/jcvi-updated-interim-advice-on-priority-groups-for-covid-19-vaccination
For brevity, they are:
older adults’ resident in a care home and care home workers
all those 80 years of age and over and health and social care workers
all those 75 years of age and over
all those 70 years of age and over
all those 65 years of age and over
high-risk adults under 65 years of age
moderate-risk adults under 65 years of age
all those 60 years of age and over
all those 55 years of age and over
all those 50 years of age and over
rest of the population (priority to be determined)
Apparently her Maj will have to wait for tranche number 2....
Anyone believe that? I suppose the safety aspect will have been tried and tested by then on those unlikely to suffer from Long Covid...
WiredIncorrectly
12-11-20, 01:04
Ps.
But let’s be clear about what this Pfizer study shows so far: For 90 percent of the volunteers who got the vaccine (as opposed to a placebo), SARS-CoV-2 infection did not occur for a study period of seven days.Seven days. Nothing more is known.
If that protection turns out to be durable for, say, a full year, the Pfizer vaccine might be deemed a spectacular success. But nobody is going to wait a year to find out. The moment the FDA approves the product, Pfizer says in its press release, “we expect to produce globally up to 50 million vaccine doses in 2020 and up to 1.3 billion doses in 2021.”
Source: https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/11/10/the-vaccine-news-is-good-heres-the-bad-news/
MyNameIsTerry
12-11-20, 05:25
Apparently her Maj will have to wait for tranche number 2....
Anyone believe that? I suppose the safety aspect will have been tried and tested by then on those unlikely to suffer from Long Covid...
Does that suggest a less than confident set of experts :winks:
ankietyjoe
12-11-20, 09:37
I get what you're saying Joe and I completely understand your position. But the fact remains that no RNA vaccine has every been approved for human use.
Pfizer's vaccine is mRNA are they're not hiding it, it's no conspiracy mate. Here's Pfizer's very own press release from back in July. That's what I was reading from during our last discussion: https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-choose-lead-mrna-vaccine-candidate-0
I'm not trying to install fear. I am not saying nothing of conspiracy. I'm just pointing out the important part ... no RNA vaccine has ever been approved because of the unknown risks of RNA vaccine's long term.
All love "broski". Friends can have different opinions and be able to discuss :bighug1:
Ps. I only deal with facts when it concerns COVID. If something isn't factual I will not say it.
Imagine when penicillin was invented....
"So what we're going to do is get you to eat something I made from mould, and it will cure you"
"You wanna WHAT NOW?!?!?!"
Imagine when the first blood transfusion was undertaken.....
"So we're going to take the blood out of this person over here, and inject it into you"
"You wanna WHAT NOW?!?!??!"
Imagine when the first heart transplant was undertaken......
"So what we're gonna do is take the heart out of this dead person, we're then going to cut you open and remove your heart, and sew their one back in it's place"
"You wanna WHAT NOW!?!?!"
Medical science has a habit of pushing boundaries, and if the internet had been around when Penicillin was invented there would have been just as many bogus 'expert' stories on why it was a terrible idea and why it is 'the hidden killer' etc etc.
The idea that a company like Pfizer would put this out there under the current litigation climate, thinking that it would be dangerous is frankly ludicrous. Any issues a couple of years down the line and it would effectively destroy the company, the vaccine will have such widespread use that it would cost them trillions.
And again, not putting you down but your opinion isn't based on anything. That's not underestimating your intelligence as I know you're a smart cookie, but you're looking in places where you'll find the negative reinforcement you want to read about. You do (in my opinion) have a bit of a habit of enjoying a good old conspiracy theory, and I think that's what's at play here. Pfizer will be looking at this as a bit of a cash cow for the next few decades at least, not a financial noose that keeps them tied up in courts until it ends the company.
ankietyjoe
12-11-20, 10:04
Not to mention the first ever vaccine for smallpox and how that was discovered and tested.
Imagine what the internet would do to that suggestion these days.
WiredIncorrectly
12-11-20, 11:34
And again, not putting you down but your opinion isn't based on anything. That's not underestimating your intelligence as I know you're a smart cookie, but you're looking in places where you'll find the negative reinforcement you want to read about.
I do actively look for the negatives. I'm a pessimist by nature. My Asperger's brain always wants to get to the root of things. If the Daily Mail is saying a vaccine is coming I have to dig deep. If the media is showing positives, I have to look for the negatives because you'll not find them in the media. There are sources such as New Scientist that I read a lot. They give you a much clearer picture. FP is a decent credible source tbh. The author of that article Laurie Garrett is a Pulitzer Prize winning science writer.
I feel like many people here will never be exposed to the full picture, that's why I share the negative side.
I'm genuinely not that interested in conspiracy anymore. It's safe info I'm sharing don't worry :)
I just wonder how practical this vaccine would be in view of the very low temperatures it has to be stored at
I just wonder how practical this vaccine would be in view of the very low temperatures it has to be stored at
I suppose it’s not our job to be too concerned about that? That’s what I tend to think anyway.
Is your daughter happy that there’s a vaccine?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I suppose it’s not our job to be too concerned about that? That’s what I tend to think anyway.
Is your daughter happy that there’s a vaccine?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes I agree, Scass. I was just anticipating the pitfalls/excuses but maybe it will all be plain sailing.
My daughter says that she will believe it when it happens..There's been too much false hope.
Pamplemousse
12-11-20, 18:24
I just wonder how practical this vaccine would be in view of the very low temperatures it has to be stored at
Conveniently, it's the temperature of dry ice and laboratory freezers are available for those temperatures.
Conveniently, it's the temperature of dry ice and laboratory freezers are available for those temperatures.
That shows how much I know and why I was always crap at science:D
Sorry for coming across as the prophet of doom.
That shows how much I know and why I was always crap at science:D
Sorry for coming across as the prophet of doom.
You have never, ever not once come across as the prophet of doom!
Your daughter has the right attitude I think x
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
WiredIncorrectly
12-11-20, 21:18
Sorry for coming across as the prophet of doom.
Oi! That's my title, leave it alone. :roflmao:
Pamplemousse
12-11-20, 21:50
Oi! That's my title, leave it alone. :roflmao:
Oi! No it's not, it's MINE, I tell you!!!! :roflmao:
Pamplemousse
12-11-20, 21:54
That shows how much I know and why I was always crap at science:D
Sorry for coming across as the prophet of doom.
Prophet of doom? No way, not ever :)
I only learned that a couple of days ago myself from someone eminently more qualified than me! But yes, 'dry ice' (carbon dioxide) is solid below -78 degrees, plenty cold enough. I'm also of an age when I remember blocks of it being used in vans to deliver ice cream to the village shops - I saw a bit lying on the ground by the village post office and went to touch it but my mother pulled me away sharpish...
MyNameIsTerry
13-11-20, 00:52
Looking at my surgery they will need to bring in more fridges to store the stuff since theirs are pretty small.
The army are involved so they could be doing some deliveries.
So the vaccine you need two doses do people think 65 million in the UK are going to need two doses once per year or would they allow you to miss it in future years once the pandemic is over? Surely it would be a big upheaval to vaccinate 65 million people twice a year as they are having to hire out sports halls ect? Or would there be another vaccine coming which is maybe oral and can be done yourself?
No, no, no... Prophet of Doom is Frank.:yesyes:
ankietyjoe
14-11-20, 23:40
So the vaccine you need two doses do people think 65 million in the UK are going to need two doses once per year or would they allow you to miss it in future years once the pandemic is over? Surely it would be a big upheaval to vaccinate 65 million people twice a year as they are having to hire out sports halls ect? Or would there be another vaccine coming which is maybe oral and can be done yourself?
You're thinking of fruit pastilles I think.
glassgirlw
14-11-20, 23:55
So the vaccine you need two doses do people think 65 million in the UK are going to need two doses once per year or would they allow you to miss it in future years once the pandemic is over? Surely it would be a big upheaval to vaccinate 65 million people twice a year as they are having to hire out sports halls ect? Or would there be another vaccine coming which is maybe oral and can be done yourself?
Quite honestly Phil I think it’s too soon to be able to say that for sure. This fast tracking of a vaccine (at least one this quickly) has never been done before. To me I think the primary focus is finding a safe and effective vaccine to get out in the general population. Once that’s done, who knows - maybe further research and studies and trials will come up with one that is similar to polio and given orally. But for now I really don’t think that’s anyone’s focus.
Quite honestly Phil I think it’s too soon to be able to say that for sure. This fast tracking of a vaccine (at least one this quickly) has never been done before. To me I think the primary focus is finding a safe and effective vaccine to get out in the general population. Once that’s done, who knows - maybe further research and studies and trials will come up with one that is similar to polio and given orally. But for now I really don’t think that’s anyone’s focus.
Thanks yes that’s true I mean I read the vaccine should last longer than a year anyway and it would be expensive to vaccinate more often.
Thats the issue with Covid you can’t plan anything you never know when it will get back to normal. I think now there is a vaccine people sort hope it will.
Do you see holidays and concert gathering returning in 2021?
Do you see holidays and concert gathering returning in 2021?
I'm in the business and honestly? No :(
Positive thoughts
I'm in the business and honestly? No :(
Positive thoughts
My local travel agents are advertising for holidays for 2022 but there is a few gigs out back to May 2021 I think they could be further delayed.
glassgirlw
15-11-20, 00:36
Thanks yes that’s true I mean I read the vaccine should last longer than a year anyway and it would be expensive to vaccinate more often.
Thats the issue with Covid you can’t plan anything you never know when it will get back to normal. I think now there is a vaccine people sort hope it will.
Do you see holidays and concert gathering returning in 2021?
The optimist in me would like to say yes. But I just don’t know.
I don’t know what you all are hearing over there, but in the states I’ve heard that the initial round of vaccines will be available for front line and healthcare workers end of December/early January. After that, it will be high risk population (elderly and severe co-morbidity population). Then everyone else. So the “everyone else” stage they’re hoping to be late spring/early summer.
this timeline is 100% dependent on the vaccine maker being able to mass produce enough doses. And have enough syringes. And doctors offices/clinics having the staff to be able to vaccinate everyone. If you see where I’m going with this...there are just so many variables in play that I can see there possibly being supply chain shortages. I truly hope not, I don’t care much about concerts really but I do miss being able to go to holiday gatherings with my family and friends. So I’m hoping for a smooth vaccination process when it does become available.
The optimist in me would like to say yes. But I just don’t know.
I don’t know what you all are hearing over there, but in the states I’ve heard that the initial round of vaccines will be available for front line and healthcare workers end of December/early January. After that, it will be high risk population (elderly and severe co-morbidity population). Then everyone else. So the “everyone else” stage they’re hoping to be late spring/early summer.
this timeline is 100% dependent on the vaccine maker being able to mass produce enough doses. And have enough syringes. And doctors offices/clinics having the staff to be able to vaccinate everyone. If you see where I’m going with this...there are just so many variables in play that I can see there possibly being supply chain shortages. I truly hope not, I don’t care much about concerts really but I do miss being able to go to holiday gatherings with my family and friends. So I’m hoping for a smooth vaccination process when it does become available.
Yes same time frame here. I heard they will start vaccination in a few weeks I mean that’s good to get the ball rolling once we see people getting vaccinated perhaps over the months cases will drop a little that’s my hope. In the UK they suggested using multiple vaccines even if one is less effective than the one they found..
glassgirlw
15-11-20, 01:02
Absolutely agree. I think if we can even get a portion of the population vaccinated, it has to help with the sharp rise in cases. Unfortunately we’re still a bit away from that so I hope people can try to be smart just a little while longer.
Well, the question I have to ask is do we still consider this a national health risk when 99% of those at risk have been vaccinated and therefore protected?
If you’re using a vaccine with a 90% efficacy, and vaccinate all of those considered “at risk”, do we even class that as a threat anymore?
Let’s be clear on this. This is all about keeping hospitals as free as is possible. If those who are filling hospitals right now are vaccinated then what are we even fighting?
I’m in my early 30’s and contacted Covid a few weeks back. I felt a bit ill for a few days but generally it wasn’t that bad. That’s not me trivialising it, but what I am saying is that my experience is the same for about 90% of people who get Covid. The other 10%, unfortunately, will end up in hospital or, worse, dead.
That’s the point, though. If that other 10% are vaccinated, hospital admissions slow to a crawl, do we even have to consider Covid a threat? I would think not.
There has to be something more to this, something we're not being told.
Pamplemousse
15-11-20, 10:18
Order of vaccination as mentioned by Jonathan Van-Tam in a press conference the other day;
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/priority-groups-for-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-advice-from-the-jcvi-25-september-2020/jcvi-updated-interim-advice-on-priority-groups-for-covid-19-vaccination#vaccine-priority-groups-interim-advice
I would imagine that anyone below 50 in good health with no pre-existing conditions is very unlikely to get vaccinated - just like the flu jab now.
Anyone who thinks that a virus should bend to their will just so they can watch a football match should stop being both selfish and delusional.
ankietyjoe
15-11-20, 10:47
There has to be something more to this, something we're not being told.
Like what?
Order of vaccination as mentioned by Jonathan Van-Tam in a press conference the other day;
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/priority-groups-for-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-advice-from-the-jcvi-25-september-2020/jcvi-updated-interim-advice-on-priority-groups-for-covid-19-vaccination#vaccine-priority-groups-interim-advice
I would imagine that anyone below 50 in good health with no pre-existing conditions is very unlikely to get vaccinated - just like the flu jab now.
Anyone who thinks that a virus should bend to their will just so they can watch a football match should stop being both selfish and delusional.
Yep I agree I hope it is a case of vaccinate people who need it most and hopefully not everybody needs it but you read stuff like immunity passports course that may never happen. For most it’s a flu like illness it’s strange how we always get flu pandemics Spanish flu, swine flu ect. You read so much misinformation online too like masks will be forever ect
Pamplemousse
15-11-20, 11:55
Couple of bits from the BBC website:
Covid-19: Normal life back next winter, says vaccine creator
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54949799
(I await the grateful thanks of the AfD in Germany for the work of this son of a former Gastarbeiter)
Covid-19: Stop anti-vaccination fake news online with new law says Labour
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54947661
That latter would be helped if the supposed brains of the Corbyn family didn't keep flouting the rules. Maybe he needs to do a spell inside now.
Like what?
As a former GCHQ-ite I am naturally suspicious!
ankietyjoe
15-11-20, 14:17
As a former GCHQ-ite I am naturally suspicious!
Suspicious of what though? Genuine question.
There are swathes of ridiculous conspiracy theories doing the rounds, it just doesn't seem very 'you' to be thinking this way.
I'm just curious as to the origins of all this. I have no conspiracy theories to peddle-I'm certainly not into that-but I do think that there is more to this which will come out in time.
ankietyjoe
15-11-20, 14:55
I'm just curious as to the origins of all this. I have no conspiracy theories to peddle-I'm certainly not into that-but I do think that there is more to this which will come out in time.
Well assuming you're responding to GaryA's response about the efficacy of a vaccine and the necessity of further lockdown's etc, it's still really a precautionary numbers game.
If there's one thing 'they might not be telling us', it's the possibility of catastrophic mutation. I think it's a bit of a misnomer that the primary reason for a vaccine is to prevent mass infection of the current strain, it's actually possibly more about squashing infection rates to a low enough level where mutation is far less likely. In effect, they want the current pandemic level infection events to be removed from the equation as fast as possible so that the virus doesn't have a chance to quickly mutate and create a fresh, new, uncontrolled global re-pandemic. This was the concern with the Belgian mink infections.
After a few years this becomes less of a problem anyway as natural immunity builds up and the general population has a built in 'body memory' of this type of Covid and how to deal with it. It's the same reason that the old fashioned flu doesn't cause the same kind of issues that we're seeing with Covid, in that humanity has a pretty good built in defense to it anyway.
Because we don't currently have that with Covid, the potential for exponential rates of infection are high, and that's what could prove unmanageable for health services. If lockdowns and vaccinations didn't occur, then the death toll would be enormous, not only directly caused by Covid, but also because of the secondary knock on effect to all other serious medical conditions as there simply wouldn't be enough health care infrastructure to go round.
WiredIncorrectly
15-11-20, 15:54
I'm just curious as to the origins of all this. I have no conspiracy theories to peddle-I'm certainly not into that-but I do think that there is more to this which will come out in time.
Pulisa, never stop being curious. A lot of people don't/can-not do this believe it or not.
WiredIncorrectly
15-11-20, 16:00
After a few years this becomes less of a problem anyway as natural immunity builds up and the general population has a built in 'body memory' of this type of Covid and how to deal with it.
Where is the evidence of immunity? We're not immune to the cold, or flu. Where have you read COVID is any different? I'll quote from WHO:
There is currently no evidence that people who have recovered from COVID-19 and have antibodies are protected from a second infection.
And if you want something academic to chew on: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30783-0/fulltext
WiredIncorrectly
15-11-20, 16:14
Covid-19: Stop anti-vaccination fake news online with new law says Labour
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54947661
But what defines fake news, from genuine inquiry?
I've always been of the mindset that the Internet has always been an open communication platform where you can say and do as you please (if that lands you in legal troubles because of what you say that's your own fault ... i.e slander). When you start making it illegal to post fake news then you tread in murky waters. What if I write a blog post that genuinely questions something on my mind?
Example: I write a blog post called "COVID-19 and Biological Warfare". In my post I could question whatever I like. Whatever is on my mind. However ludicrous. I should be allowed to do this.
If for some reason my blog post gets super popular that's not because I've peddled a lie. It's because I've asked a question that other people are also asking. (ps. I do not believe COVID is biological warfare, it was the only example that jumped to mind).
There's a lot of people online I dislike: David Icke, Alex Jones being two. They profit from peddling lies and they know exactly what they are doing. But they shouldn't be banned either.
If people are not following the official narrative you have to question why? And the answer might be "We don't trust official sources. They tell lies".
Which means the actual problem is distrust for authority and an authorities lack of transparency. The Government should work on fixing that problem first instead of solving the solution with a band aid.
The Government has yet to ban Telegram. Super popular chat platform that's actually private (unlike whatsapp who are still able to read your messages. That can't happen in true end to end encrypted platforms). There's COVID denier groups all over Telegram with 50,000+ members. Tommy is on there with his own popular group. People will always find a way.
Oppression causes anger. And eventually civil war.
feelthelove
15-11-20, 16:19
I'm not having a vaccine, but i'm sure most will .
WiredIncorrectly
15-11-20, 16:22
I'm not having a vaccine, but i'm sure most will .
High five! Me neither.
I think it’s important to question, and I agree that making it illegal to voice an opinion, no matter how misinformed the opinion is, merely confirms the idea of suppression. I’ve always thought that the best way to change an opinion is to engage in debate.
There are, however, some people who believe literally the first thing they read and the stick to it like glue. No amount of counter information will change their minds.
For me, I will make a decision on taking this vaccine when I feel I’ve been given enough information about it. I will always intend on taking a vaccine but there’s nothing at all wrong with waiting until you know enough to make an informed choice.
However, I feel there are far too many people who have simply decided they’re not taking this vaccine when the required information hasn’t even been made available. We know that initial results are showing 90% efficacy, we know there have been no serious. adverse events traced in any trial sans we know it’s a technology that’s never been approved in vaccination before.
Isn’t it far more sensible to make your decision when all the data becomes available?
WiredIncorrectly
15-11-20, 17:02
Isn’t it far more sensible to make your decision when all the data becomes available?
I'd have more hopes of getting blood from a stone. I believe there will never be full transparency with COVID. We're just plebs. All we can go on is the information given which is: the numbers, the media, and one everybody should use ... Google Scholar. I only trust the later. The media is covered with liter. The Daily Mail comment section is disturbing.
believe literally the first thing they read and the stick to it like glue. No amount of counter information will change their minds.
A great many. They're idiots. I don't think we should be protecting the idiots from unsafe data. Instead, educate them on how to make decisions. My argument has always been to teach Philosophy in schools for this reason. It promotes logical thinking.
Pamplemousse
15-11-20, 17:06
I've always been of the mindset that the Internet has always been an open communication platform where you can say and do as you please (if that lands you in legal troubles because of what you say that's your own fault ... i.e slander)
Just to be pedantic for a moment, WI; defamation in the spoken word is slander, but defamation in the published word - be it written or spoken in broadcast - is libel.
WiredIncorrectly
15-11-20, 17:14
Just to be pedantic for a moment, WI; defamation in the spoken word is slander, but defamation in the published word - be it written or spoken in broadcast - is libel.
Thank you :) Please be pedantic, I enjoy learning the differences. My vocabulary range (you're going to be pedantic here. I feel there's another word I should have used.) is limited. I'm reading Necronomicon at the moment. I've noticed in chats with friends it's causing me to write in peculiar ways.
I'd have more hopes of getting blood from a stone. I believe there will never be full transparency with COVID. We're just plebs. All we can go on is the information given which is: the numbers, the media, and one everybody should use ... Google Scholar. I only trust the later. The media is covered with liter. The Daily Mail comment section is disturbing.
A great many. They're idiots. I don't think we should be protecting the idiots from unsafe data. Instead, educate them on how to make decisions. My argument has always been to teach Philosophy in schools for this reason. It promotes logical thinking.
This is where I’m confused by the idea of not being given the data or only being fed a certain narrative. Information has never been so readily available and yet we seem to live in an age where people believe more than ever that we’re just “plebs” who are kept in the dark.
There are literally laws in place that mean we can have the ability to research whatever we damn well please. Perhaps it’s not so much about the lack of available information than it is more a lack of good sources. Personally, the only people I listen to when it comes to vaccination are the people who live and breathe in that world.
Virologists, epidemiologists, infectious disease experts, immunologists. I have no interest in taking my information from anywhere else. Sometimes it’s hard reading, sometimes it gives you a headache but it’s certainly worth looking to those people rather than obscure websites and tabloid newspapers.
WiredIncorrectly
15-11-20, 17:24
This is where I’m confused by the idea of not being given the data or only being fed a certain narrative.
A lot of it fake. A lot of it misinformed. A lot of it ill informed. A lot of it munged together for clickbait.
A lot of it fake. A lot of it misinformed. A lot of it ill informed. A lot of it munged together for clickbait.
So how do you define fake? You’ve already said you won’t be taking this vaccine but I’m curious to know why. I’m not trying to force your hand either way, as I said I haven’t reached a decision myself, but what is the reason for you refusing it?
Again, not saying you’re wrong, not saying you’re misinformed or whatever, I’m just wondering what info it is that’s swung your decision toward refusal?
WiredIncorrectly
15-11-20, 17:43
So how do you define fake?
Something that is made to be true, but lacks evidence.
You’ve already said you won’t be taking this vaccine but I’m curious to know why. I’m not trying to force your hand either way, as I said I haven’t reached a decision myself, but what is the reason for you refusing it? Again, not saying you’re wrong, not saying you’re misinformed or whatever, I’m just wondering what info it is that’s swung your decision toward refusal?
Come on Gary, you've read my stuff on RNA? :winks:
What would it take to get you to get a Covid vaccine? Do you get your other vaccines, James?
ankietyjoe
15-11-20, 17:47
Where is the evidence of immunity? We're not immune to the cold, or flu. Where have you read COVID is any different? I'll quote from WHO:
And if you want something academic to chew on: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30783-0/fulltext
The reason there is no evidence (at that point) that people cannot be re-infected is because it hasn't been around long enough yet.
Furthermore, the phrase 'no evidence' means nobody has done a study in depth enough to provide accurate data. History tells us this is the case though, as does the lack of thousands of reports of re-infection. Something else to consider about re-infection is that it is likely to be be far less severe the second time around.
And no, we don't have immunity from the common cold, but we also don't have mass hospitalisation from it either, which is why I said our bodies have a way of dealing with it that doesn't provoke serious complications.
And if I say something you question, go check it for yourself. I'm not in the habit of recording every single thing I read.
However....look at some of the John Campbell videos (for me the only credible 'opinion' giver out there). He has spoken numerous times about having had one disease providing some immunity to another.
High five! Me neither.
Why?
WiredIncorrectly
15-11-20, 17:51
The reason there is no evidence (at that point) that people cannot be re-infected is because it hasn't been around long enough yet.
Furthermore, the phrase 'no evidence' means nobody has done a study in depth enough to provide accurate data. History tells us this is the case though, as does the lack of thousands of reports of re-infection. Something else to consider about re-infection is that it is likely to be be far less severe the second time around.
And no, we don't have immunity from the common cold, but we also don't have mass hospitalisation from it either, which is why I said our bodies have a way of dealing with it that doesn't provoke serious complications.
And if I say something you question, go check it for yourself. I'm not in the habit of recording every single thing I read.
However....look at some of the John Campbell videos (for me the only credible 'opinion' giver out there). He has spoken numerous times about having had one disease providing some immunity to another.
I'm merely pointing out you've said something that isn't true.
Why?
I too am not in the habit of repeating myself. Go back and check :whistles:
Well assuming you're responding to GaryA's response about the efficacy of a vaccine and the necessity of further lockdown's etc, it's still really a precautionary numbers game.
If there's one thing 'they might not be telling us', it's the possibility of catastrophic mutation. I think it's a bit of a misnomer that the primary reason for a vaccine is to prevent mass infection of the current strain, it's actually possibly more about squashing infection rates to a low enough level where mutation is far less likely. In effect, they want the current pandemic level infection events to be removed from the equation as fast as possible so that the virus doesn't have a chance to quickly mutate and create a fresh, new, uncontrolled global re-pandemic. This was the concern with the Belgian mink infections.
After a few years this becomes less of a problem anyway as natural immunity builds up and the general population has a built in 'body memory' of this type of Covid and how to deal with it. It's the same reason that the old fashioned flu doesn't cause the same kind of issues that we're seeing with Covid, in that humanity has a pretty good built in defense to it anyway.
Because we don't currently have that with Covid, the potential for exponential rates of infection are high, and that's what could prove unmanageable for health services. If lockdowns and vaccinations didn't occur, then the death toll would be enormous, not only directly caused by Covid, but also because of the secondary knock on effect to all other serious medical conditions as there simply wouldn't be enough health care infrastructure to go round.
Actually I was meaning that I was suspicious of how and why this virus started in the first place.
WiredIncorrectly
15-11-20, 17:57
Folks, remember, just because people have a differing of opinions doesn't make either opinion true or false. This is an example of how a friendship is destroyed by a differing of opinions.
Joe was a very good friend of mine. I considered him that. He was very kind and supportive to me. He even sent me a gift that was out of this world.
But because we differ on our opinions regarding Brexit, and now COVID, Joe is being hostile towards me and hounding my posts. I'm not sure if he's mentally well or not, but frankly I've had enough of it and every time I feel Joe is targeting me I will point it out.
Joe, add me to your ignore list please and be done with it. You're on mine.
WiredIncorrectly
15-11-20, 17:58
Actually I was meaning that I was suspicious of how and why this virus started in the first place.
Joe thinks he is the divine source of truth. Ignore him for now. I don't think he's mentally well at the moment.
Come on Gary, you've read my stuff on RNA? :winks:
I have but I didn’t see anything that would sway me toward refusal. Was there something specific?
ankietyjoe
15-11-20, 18:02
Folks, remember, just because people have a differing of opinions doesn't make either opinion true or false. This is an example of how a friendship is destroyed by a differing of opinions.
Joe was a very good friend of mine. I considered him that. He was very kind and supportive to me. He even sent me a gift that was out of this world.
But because we differ on our opinions regarding Brexit, and now COVID, Joe is being hostile towards me and hounding my posts. I'm not sure if he's mentally well or not, but frankly I've had enough of it and every time I feel Joe is targeting me I will point it out.
Joe, add me to your ignore list please and be done with it. You're on mine.
We're still good friends J.
Questioning you isn't being hostile towards you.
And just because you 'feel' I'm targeting you, doesn't make it so. There are few things I have less time for in life than internet squabbles. This is a place I come to help if I can, get people to question their thought patterns if I feel they're doing them some harm, and nothing more.
Sorry you feel the way you do, but I'll respect your wishes and not 'hound' you any more.
WiredIncorrectly
15-11-20, 18:05
It's evident from your replies to my posts recently that you are abrasive towards me and towards my views.
You know what's going on. Please don't make out it's all in my head. That's manipulative.
It's evident from your replies to my posts recently that you are abrasive towards me and towards my views.
You know what's going on. Please don't make out it's all in my head. That's manipulative.
Sorry, but weren’t you the one encouraging people to question everything? I assume that from your reaction to a perfectly reasonable line of questioning that you’re encouraging folk to question everything except your views?
ankietyjoe
15-11-20, 18:12
Sorry, but weren’t you the one encouraging people to question everything? I assume that from your reaction to a perfectly reasonable line of questioning that you’re encouraging folk to question everything except your views?
Listen it doesn't matter. This thread shouldn't be about logic squabbling.
He doesn't want to be questioned on his reasons, and that's his prerogative.
ankietyjoe
15-11-20, 18:33
Timely video today by JC explaining the vaccine, and why an RNA vaccine won't turn you into a goat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smm_ZvJqJk4&ab_channel=Dr.JohnCampbell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smm_ZvJqJk4&ab_channel=Dr.JohnCampbell
Oh, Joe. The things you say... LOL It's like a challenge every time. The smart ass in me wants to respond, "What if I want to be a goat?" :roflmao:
ankietyjoe
15-11-20, 18:46
Oh, Joe. The things you say... LOL It's like a challenge every time. The smart ass in me wants to respond, "What if I want to be a goat?" :roflmao:
You don't know what you're missing :p
I remember that a goat and a papaya fruit once tested positive for Covid..
Maaaa..d
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-tanzania-testing-kits-questioned-after-goat-and-papaya-test-positive-11982864
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-tanzania-testing-kits-questioned-after-goat-and-papaya-test-positive-11982864
LMAO I wonder what the test result would say if the CV goat ate the CV papaya.
ankietyjoe
15-11-20, 20:27
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-tanzania-testing-kits-questioned-after-goat-and-papaya-test-positive-11982864
:yesyes::bighug1::doh:
LMAO I wonder what the test result would say if the CV goat ate the CV papaya.
It can't be cabra-lated..?
MyNameIsTerry
16-11-20, 11:52
I remember that a goat and a papaya fruit once tested positive for Covid..
Maaaa..d
Well as long as they were consenting partners. Oh wait, you can't get it that way :ohmy::blush:
Pamplemousse
16-11-20, 12:14
Results of the US Moderna vaccine just released:
94.5% effective;
Can be stored at - 20 Celsius;
Keeps in an ordinary fridge for a month.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/16/what-does-moderna-vaccine-mean-fight-covid
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-tanzania-testing-kits-questioned-after-goat-and-papaya-test-positive-11982864
Sorry to come across as a smart alec, but that linked article from Sky News dates from the beginning of May.
Whilst still on the topic of Sky News, they mentioned earlier today that Covid might already had been around as early as September last year (2019).
Nothing on the BBC about it though (as yet).
Good news about another vaccine (Moderna) being more or less given the go-ahead.
We were taking a light hearted look at the goat/covid "link", Lencoboy..It wasn't a serious comment so apologies for any inappropriate humour.
We were taking a light hearted look at the goat/covid "link", Lencoboy..It wasn't a serious comment so apologies for any inappropriate humour.
I was merely pointing out that the story dates from May 2020 so to me it's 'old news'.
Results on the Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine-
100% effective
Can be stored at room temperature.
Keeps indefinitely.
On sale in QD now, BOGOF
Results on the Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine-
100% effective
Can be stored at room temperature.
Keeps indefinitely.
On sale in QD now, BOGOF
Same day delivery from Amazon Prime..Sign up now....
Results on the Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine-
100% effective
Can be stored at room temperature.
Keeps indefinitely.
On sale in QD now, BOGOF
Seriously?
I need to get into the pharmaceutical business...I was good at chemistry too! WTF did I become a teacher???
Seriously?
No it's tongue in cheek, Lencoboy.
Oh I did see the Russian vaccine has 92% efficacy, just that little bit better...
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/russian-sputnik-v-covid-vaccine-19260831
Oh I did see the Russian vaccine has 92% efficacy, just that little bit better...
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/russian-sputnik-v-covid-vaccine-19260831
I feel for the Russian "volunteers".....
I feel for the Russian "volunteers".....
Over here we call that "volun-told"
MyNameIsTerry
17-11-20, 08:07
Oh I did see the Russian vaccine has 92% efficacy, just that little bit better...
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/russian-sputnik-v-covid-vaccine-19260831
Was that the where some big hat forced his daughter into it? Sounds like when Selwyn Gummer gave his daughter a beefburger.
That's got me thinking of Trigger on Only Fools & Horses and his British beef line. So time for some memes from the show updated for 2020...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUCS5mkXsAACqht.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQg5sfeWEjAAl7Yz4zBTSVR40SSsBAeM IAU1A&usqp=CAU
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ET4C2AbXgAAPp_F.jpg
:yesyes::roflmao:
Buster Merryfield used to live down the road from me in the 80s..
ankietyjoe
17-11-20, 09:12
Early data showing around 95% efficacy for Moderna vaccine, with an implied high protection from serious illness.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fiq5ymktg6w&ab_channel=Dr.JohnCampbell
Pamplemousse
17-11-20, 10:51
Buster Merryfield used to live down the road from me in the 80s..
So you'd know he didn't sound anything like Uncle Albert in real life then!
So you'd know he didn't sound anything like Uncle Albert in real life then!
Yes I think he used to be a bank manager before he became Uncle Albert!
Early data showing around 95% efficacy for Moderna vaccine, with an implied high protection from serious illness.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fiq5ymktg6w&ab_channel=Dr.JohnCampbell
Apparently Dolly Parton made a substantial financial contribution to the extensive research for this vaccine.
ankietyjoe
17-11-20, 14:18
Apparently Dolly Parton made a substantial financial contribution to the extensive research for this vaccine.
Due to goats, I have no idea if you're being serious or making a joke I'm just not getting. :yesyes:
https://www.vumc.org/coronavirus/latest-news/dolly-parton-makes-generous-gift-advance-covid-19-research-vanderbilt
(https://www.vumc.org/coronavirus/latest-news/dolly-parton-makes-generous-gift-advance-covid-19-research-vanderbilt)
Definitely more than a 9 to 5 undertaking...
ankietyjoe
17-11-20, 15:37
I clearly hadn't kept abreast of developments......
Was that the where some big hat forced his daughter into it? Sounds like when Selwyn Gummer gave his daughter a beefburger.
That's got me thinking of Trigger on Only Fools & Horses and his British beef line. So time for some memes from the show updated for 2020...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUCS5mkXsAACqht.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQg5sfeWEjAAl7Yz4zBTSVR40SSsBAeM IAU1A&usqp=CAU
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ET4C2AbXgAAPp_F.jpg
:yesyes::roflmao:LOL Terry!! Thanks for that. The trouble is that's me now not in 40 years.
https://www.vumc.org/coronavirus/latest-news/dolly-parton-makes-generous-gift-advance-covid-19-research-vanderbilt (https://www.vumc.org/coronavirus/latest-news/dolly-parton-makes-generous-gift-advance-covid-19-research-vanderbilt)
Well she'd know all about generous gifts :blush:
Definitely more than a 9 to 5 undertaking...
I knew that one was coming!!
In contribution to Dolly, they should stop saying the vaccine requires “two doses” and should instead tell us that we’re all getting double D’s.
She'll certainly have made a mammorable contribution to halting the pandemic...Bouldering on heroic.
She'll certainly have made a mammorable contribution to halting the pandemic...Bouldering on heroic.LOL you're on form lately Pulisa :D
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-54986208
So now Pfizer-BioNTech have updated their trial results and their vaccine candidate is showing 95% efficacy and, even more impressive, 94% efficacy in over 65’s. With two months worth of safety data submitted they can now apply for emergency use.
There’s also been a few studies that suggest that naturally acquired immunity via infection lasts for at least 8 months and quite possibly years. It’s been the largest study into the entire immune response, rather than just antibody production, so far and it’s showing that infected people hold killer T and, more importantly, memory B cells which remember a pathogen and trigger a response.
Pamplemousse
19-11-20, 13:37
The Danish government is reporting that the 'mink mutation' is now probably extinct.
Read here. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-54998339?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5fb66093fe66a902d1003ded%26Mink%20viru s%20strain%20in%20Denmark%20%27most%20likely%27%20 extinct%262020-11-19T13%3A29%3A01.722Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:e2286551-b7c1-4b59-be2f-4f48f9a26b2c&pinned_post_asset_id=5fb66093fe66a902d1003ded&pinned_post_type=share)
MyNameIsTerry
20-11-20, 15:37
I think Pamplemousse shared the cohort info early but details in this report were seen in the NHS yesterday so may be a useful update:
https://www.hsj.co.uk/coronavirus/exclusive-nhs-planning-to-start-covid-vaccination-of-under-50s-by-end-of-january/7029015.article#.X7fWNUJplmk.twitter?utm_source=up day&utm_medium=referral
A question
If you have had the vaccine will airport testing and social distancing stop if you can’t pass virus on or catch it? And the end of masks?
Hóng heroin (http://199.188.201.248/)
http://199.188.201.248/
Is it organic?
A question
If you have had the vaccine will airport testing and social distancing stop if you can’t pass virus on or catch it? And the end of masks?
If the vaccine is successful at preventing infection in 95% of people, as they say it is, then yes, life will gradually return to normal. We still have a few months to go until we see if these vaccines do as they say on the tin, however.
ankietyjoe
21-11-20, 10:45
It'll be 6-12 months before things begin to start returning to normal, and closer to 18 months when it'll be mostly a distant memory.
According to John Campbell.
Pamplemousse
21-11-20, 11:18
Has anyone trialling this vaccine given birth in the meantime, do we know?
Has anyone trialling this vaccine given birth in the meantime, do we know?
We only know what’s been made public. So far, we know it’s well tolerated in all age groups, we know it induces much the same immune response in all age groups and we know that in a trial of 40,000 people across the world, it protected 95% of them from infection.
It’s now up to those who licence these things to ask the other questions. I also think it’s important that the findings from this vaccine are made public. When you’re talking about having the entire population vaccinated in a few months time, you really need to do all you can to make sure there are as many people on board as possible.
We only know what’s been made public. So far, we know it’s well tolerated in all age groups, we know it induces much the same immune response in all age groups and we know that in a trial of 40,000 people across the world, it protected 95% of them from infection.
It’s now up to those who licence these things to ask the other questions. I also think it’s important that the findings from this vaccine are made public. When you’re talking about having the entire population vaccinated in a few months time, you really need to do all you can to make sure there are as many people on board as possible.
Has anyone died of the vaccine? My worry is dying if I take the vaccine incase my body has a bad reaction?
Has anyone died of the vaccine? My worry is dying if I take the vaccine incase my body has a bad reaction?
No reports of anyone dying from the vaccine so far. If so, it would have been all over the media.
It’s now up to those who licence these things to ask the other questions. I also think it’s important that the findings from this vaccine are made public. When you’re talking about having the entire population vaccinated in a few months time, you really need to do all you can to make sure there are as many people on board as possible.
I agree. Misinformation is literally killing people over here. I have a student who's uncle (why is it always the uncles? :/) died of CV because he believed it was a hoax.
Pamplemousse
21-11-20, 19:14
No reports of anyone dying from the vaccine so far. If so, it would have been all over the media.
As far as I know there have been two deaths during the trials of diverse vaccines but in both cases it has been established the deaths were unrelated to the vaccine.
(That's what 'they' want you to think, anyway. It's the 5G, I tell you!)
Pamplemousse
21-11-20, 19:18
We only know what’s been made public. So far, we know it’s well tolerated in all age groups, we know it induces much the same immune response in all age groups and we know that in a trial of 40,000 people across the world, it protected 95% of them from infection.
It’s now up to those who licence these things to ask the other questions. I also think it’s important that the findings from this vaccine are made public. When you’re talking about having the entire population vaccinated in a few months time, you really need to do all you can to make sure there are as many people on board as possible.
I very much doubt anyone under 50 in good health and with no co-morbidities will be vaccinated. It'll save a fortune. It may happen when the allegedly cheaper AZ vaccine comes along though, who knows?
Has anyone died of the vaccine? My worry is dying if I take the vaccine incase my body has a bad reaction?
By the time it's your "turn" to choose to receive the vaccine there should be a lot more evidence as to its potential side effects..if indeed there are any significant ones.
Well, over here, I'm apparently in the third group to receive the vaccine as I'm a teacher and people what their kids to go back to school. I'll let you know what happens if I receive it before any of you.
I very much doubt anyone under 50 in good health and with no co-morbidities will be vaccinated. It'll save a fortune. It may happen when the allegedly cheaper AZ vaccine comes along though, who knows?
In Scotland they are offering it to 4.4 million people though but should we all take it?
Pamplemousse
21-11-20, 20:52
In Scotland they are offering it to 4.4 million people though but should we all take it?
It's your choice, Phil. No-one, but no-one, is compelling you to take it.
Pamplemousse
21-11-20, 20:53
Well, over here, I'm apparently in the third group to receive the vaccine as I'm a teacher and people what their kids to go back to school. I'll let you know what happens if I receive it before any of you.
I'm sixth or seventh.
It's your choice, Phil. No-one, but no-one, is compelling you to take it.
Yes until they say you can’t work holiday go to gigs without regular testing no win really.
Sure I do hope say 2 million take the vaccine covid numbers drop so it’s no longer a threat anymore. The government seem to be pushing that we all need it not sure if anybody agrees? 2 months ago I read it was only half the country getting vaccine now I read different?
Plus they say all will be vaccinated by April that’s six months so we won’t be long finding out?
Has anyone died of the vaccine? My worry is dying if I take the vaccine incase my body has a bad reaction?
No.
The vaccine has been trialed in thousands of people and the most adverse reaction detected has been dizziness.
Compare that to the most adverse reaction of Covid. Around 0.5% of people contracting Covid die from air suffocation.
I know which one I’d rather try.
As far as I know there have been two deaths during the trials of diverse vaccines but in both cases it has been established the deaths were unrelated to the vaccine.
(That's what 'they' want you to think, anyway. It's the 5G, I tell you!)
That's what Dr JC explained in his YouTube vids.
And luckily before the press got the chance to jump all over it.
No.
The vaccine has been trialed in thousands of people and the most adverse reaction detected has been dizziness.
Compare that to the most adverse reaction of Covid. Around 0.5% of people contracting Covid die from air suffocation.
I know which one I’d rather try.
Remember we're all more far more likely to to die in car crashes on a daily basis than from any of the forthcoming Covid vaccines, or even from Covid itself.
Pamplemousse
22-11-20, 10:36
I'm not so sure about that last statement, LB, but then I wouldn't be. I thought I read someone with my co-morbidities has a greater than 20% chance of dying from Covid.
I'm not so sure about that last statement, LB, but then I wouldn't be. I thought I read someone with my co-morbidities has a greater than 20% chance of dying from Covid.
Sorry PM, I meant that most people are probably more likely to die in car crashes than of Covid itself, and even more so (in car crashes) than from the Covid vaccines.
Pamplemousse
22-11-20, 13:38
Sorry PM, I meant that most people are probably more likely to die in car crashes than of Covid itself, and even more so (in car crashes) than from the Covid vaccines.
According to a website citing data nearly 20 years old (I couldn't find anything newer) the lifetime risk of dying in a car crash is about 0.42%, or 1 in 240. However, traffic fatalities are at their lowest ever - about 1700 p.a.
MyNameIsTerry
22-11-20, 14:53
153k road casualties of all severities in 2019. 1.7k deaths down from 3k in 2004.
Does an 80% chance of survival sound good? And what increases it e.g. accessing help quicker? There is also a % risk for catching it in the first place. That can greatly reduce the 20% e.g. it can't be 20% if you rarely leave the house vs someone out shopping 5 times a week.
I'm food shopping 5 times a week (no freezer). As far as I'm aware I haven't had the virus. Do statistics matter anyway when it comes down to personal experience?
Did you see the Fulham v Everton game Pulisa? I watched it at my Dad's. We have a decent attack but shocking defence, it makes for exciting viewing for a neutral.
Pamplemousse
22-11-20, 18:45
I'm food shopping 5 times a week (no freezer). As far as I'm aware I haven't had the virus. Do statistics matter anyway when it comes down to personal experience?
Anecdote does not equal data... I shop about twice, maybe three times a week now; no fridge or freezer here, something I should try and remedy. Lots of tins and packets and with winter approaching, the kitchen cupboard does get down to fridge-like temperatures!
Don't forget the fruit and veg though, PM. Kiwis and oranges keep well and are high in vitamin C.
Every little helps..allegedly. I've got plenty of tinned sardines in stock too.
Did you see the Fulham v Everton game Pulisa? I watched it at my Dad's. We have a decent attack but shocking defence, it makes for exciting viewing for a neutral.
No I didn't see the match, Fishman. Did Fulham miss a penalty again? I'd much rather watch an attacking team than a defensive borefest of players trying to grind out a draw. On that subject Palace play Burnley tomorrow..
Pamplemousse
22-11-20, 21:35
Don't forget the fruit and veg though, PM. Kiwis and oranges keep well and are high in vitamin C.
Every little helps..allegedly. I've got plenty of tinned sardines in stock too.
I'm not a great fan of bollock-fruit, but I do like oranges :)
I'm not a great fan of bollock-fruit, but I do like oranges :)LOL PM, I'm just eating one of those right now.
Is there any update on saliva testing and also oral covid jabs? If not ones that require just 1 jab and no booster?
venusbluejeans
22-11-20, 23:54
oral covid jabs?
There are going to be vaccines injected into your mouth?
Why don't you just look on the reputable news websites for the latest news?
MyNameIsTerry
23-11-20, 09:19
Is there any update on saliva testing and also oral covid jabs? If not ones that require just 1 jab and no booster?
The up the nose test is very unpleasant. The nurse preparing my mum for it described it as absolutely horrible :ohmy:
She was fine with the throat one though.
And all for nothing.
Would a vaccine go on top of the arm? I am not sure I have had one as I skipped my TB jab but would it be similar to getting blood taken?
WiredIncorrectly
24-11-20, 15:12
Would a vaccine go on top of the arm? I am not sure I have had one as I skipped my TB jab but would it be similar to getting blood taken?
It's just going to be a regular jab mate. By no means are you forced to have it, but if you plan on travelling I think it might be required.
It's a difficult time Phil and I completely understand your concerns and worry. I've been there. I've spent countless days with my head in scientific papers looking for all the negatives I can find. I'm pessimistic, and it sounds you are too. But you know what is better than pessimistic? ... realistic.
Phil is there anything you enjoy doing? You said you do music. Me too, but we're probably on different ends of the music spectrum. I'm more into underground type music.
What instruments do you play? And do you know much music theory?
I'm more into underground type music.
Do you mean like 'Down in the Tube Station at Midnight' and 'Going Underground' by The Jam Wired? :D
You just can't beat that Mind the Gap sound..
MyNameIsTerry
25-11-20, 08:24
I was thinking "underground overground Wombleing free..." :roflmao:
ankietyjoe
25-11-20, 14:15
Saw this on Facebook today
5243
Saw this on Facebook today
5243
And the Most Stupid Comment of the Day Award goes to Chris W!!!!
Please tell him I'm keeping his flowers.
ankietyjoe
25-11-20, 17:42
And the Most Stupid Comment of the Day Award goes to Chris W!!!!
Please tell him I'm keeping his flowers.
How is it possible to be that stupid? And he's not alone, there are thousands like him.
Pamplemousse
25-11-20, 17:46
How is it possible to be that stupid? And he's not alone, there are thousands like him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYFQZFL0yoo
WiredIncorrectly
25-11-20, 17:59
What does comments say?
ankietyjoe
25-11-20, 18:15
"Why inoculate healthy people, seems there may be bigger agenda?"
I have a friend who posts on FB about the hidden agenda, 5G and the 'trackers' that get injected along with the vaccine. I've kept my distance this year so as to avoid our friendship being compromised. I've known him for 26 years and its very difficult, I feel torn.
I have a friend who posts on FB about the hidden agenda, 5G and the 'trackers' that get injected along with the vaccine. I've kept my distance this year so as to avoid our friendship being compromised. I've known him for 26 years and its very difficult, I feel torn.
Makes you wonder where the hell these people get all this bats**t crazy (mis)info from?
They're the deluded ones with the hidden agendas methinks.
They seriously need to get a life (and an education).
Talk about crying wolf?
Makes you wonder where the hell these people get all this bats**t crazy (mis)info from?
They're the deluded ones with the hidden agendas methinks.
They seriously need to get a life (and an education).
Talk about crying wolf?
The anti-Vax movement have used this to further their agenda. Before a pandemic which literally affected each and every one of us, I’d bet that not many folk put much of a thought into vaccination. A fringe element have existed for years, but they’ve managed to get a lot of people on board by spreading propaganda at an alarming rate.
I’m honestly at a point now of seeing people congratulating themselves for indulging in pseudoscientific nonsense. It’s a sad state of affairs.
The anti-Vax movement have used this to further their agenda. Before a pandemic which literally affected each and every one of us, I’d bet that not many folk put much of a thought into vaccination. A fringe element have existed for years, but they’ve managed to get a lot of people on board by spreading propaganda at an alarming rate.
I’m honestly at a point now of seeing people congratulating themselves for indulging in pseudoscientific nonsense. It’s a sad state of affairs.
Yes, the misinformation is literally killing people. I had a student who's family member died from covid because he thought it was a hoax. One of my cousins, who's a nurse, who spent 4 weeks recovering from covid, says he wants to scream when he spends all day taking care of people with covid and then sees people posting crap on facebook where they've been out with no masks.
I'm hoping that our state will make the vaccine a requirement to head back to school next year like they've done with vaccines for mumps and whooping cough. In our state, you can't go to school without immunizations or a doctor's note saying that you can't have them due to medical reasons. I think employers should also make that requirement as well.
While I'm at it, another stupidity rant.... South Dakota. That state has been the most resistant in adopting anti-covid measures. The governor refuses to pass mask requirements in SD (probably because she's a Trump supporter). SD held the huge Sturgis motorcycle rally over the summer, bringing thousands into a small town with no masks. They also had a Trump rally there with no precautions, other than it was outside. Now they have the highest death rate per capita. I don't understand how people can ignore this: a + b = c. Yet they still interview people on the news in SD and they still refuse to wear masks and they're literally dying. They say the mask wearing rate is only 50% there. :doh:
I feel like no matter what we do in CA, without these other states getting on board, it will all mean nothing as the people from these other states are still traveling for the holidays.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/south-dakota-covid-kristi-noem-mask-mandate/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/south-dakota-covid-kristi-noem-mask-mandate/)
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/06/us/sturgis-coronavirus-cases.html
(https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/06/us/sturgis-coronavirus-cases.html)
That's the issue with my friend, he attended a rally in London where everyone was without masks. He says there is a virus but that it has a 99.7% survival rate and why are the people being denied their rights for something 'no more dangerous than flu'. Post after post in a similar vein and therein lies the danger that my wife, Dad or even me could potentially die directly or indirectly because of his actions.
Your friend would change his tune if a close relative or friend of his were seriously affected. It's ok to be blase from an emotional distance.
While I'm at it, another stupidity rant.... South Dakota. That state has been the most resistant in adopting anti-covid measures. The governor refuses to pass mask requirements in SD (probably because she's a Trump supporter). SD held the huge Sturgis motorcycle rally over the summer, bringing thousands into a small town with no masks. They also had a Trump rally there with no precautions, other than it was outside. Now they have the highest death rate per capita. I don't understand how people can ignore this: a + b = c. Yet they still interview people on the news in SD and they still refuse to wear masks and they're literally dying. They say the mask wearing rate is only 50% there. :doh:
I feel like no matter what we do in CA, without these other states getting on board, it will all mean nothing as the people from these other states are still traveling for the holidays.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/south-dakota-covid-kristi-noem-mask-mandate/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/south-dakota-covid-kristi-noem-mask-mandate/)
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/06/us/sturgis-coronavirus-cases.html
(https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/06/us/sturgis-coronavirus-cases.html)Dead right Vee. To quote Dr Campbell, we're only as strong as our weakest link. And while we have the South Dakota's of this world along with my 'freedom fighter' activist friend, that link is pretty damn weak.
Your friend would change his tune if a close relative or friend of his were seriously affected. It's ok to be blase from an emotional distance.Exactly Pulisa, would he still deny the reality? His ideology is entrenched but enough to withstand that? I don't know.
This is worrying, 36% of the US population are planning to celebrate Thanksgiving the same as they did last year, with 4% doing it even better?? 5.30 minutes -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt-RHHOMl2g
My local paper put up about possibly side effects sore arm fatigue feeling poorly for a few days doesn’t cheer me up about getting a vaccine?
My local paper put up about possibly side effects sore arm fatigue feeling poorly for a few days doesn’t cheer me up about getting a vaccine?
Oh God, I’m not sure how you’d get through that.
That's the issue with my friend, he attended a rally in London where everyone was without masks. He says there is a virus but that it has a 99.7% survival rate and why are the people being denied their rights for something 'no more dangerous than flu'. Post after post in a similar vein and therein lies the danger that my wife, Dad or even me could potentially die directly or indirectly because of his actions.
99.7% survival rate seems to be the new go to. What these people don’t realise is that even if that we’re true, what percentage of folk need hospital care? What does that do to a healthcare system that generally bursts at the seams every winter?
The whole “no deadlier than flu” argument is both inaccurate and a bit pointless. Say it was as deadly as flu, for talking sake. Thousands of people die from flu each year. Many more thousands end up in hospital. So do we just accept another “flu” on top of the one we already have?
It’s a bit like saying that there’s no point in trying to stop a serial killer because he’s no deadlier than another serial killer. It’s ridiculous.
My local paper put up about possibly side effects sore arm fatigue feeling poorly for a few days doesn’t cheer me up about getting a vaccine?
How about the side effect that you're saving lives???
Exactly Pulisa, would he still deny the reality? His ideology is entrenched but enough to withstand that? I don't know.
This is worrying, 36% of the US population are planning to celebrate Thanksgiving the same as they did last year, with 4% doing it even better?? 5.30 minutes -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt-RHHOMl2g
Yes, the airports are packed FM. Some of my fellow country-people don't care. Nothing will impede their "freedom."
Here in California we have public service advertisements saying wear a mask, stay 6 ft apart, limit your holiday gatherings to only people in your immediate household. If you get tested negative for covid, it doesn't mean it's a free pass to party as the incubation period is 2-14 days, etc. But other states are just now adopted mask mandates, and we've had them for months, and we're still having issues. There is a church in Northern CA over the weekend that had a concert/guest speaker event for over 300 people, even though they said they took everyone's temp before going in, but no one was wearing a mask. Their pastor was even telling people to ignore covid warnings, that only God can give/take their freedom, and to not listen to our governor. I haven't always agreed with all the measures our governor has made either, but I feel he's saved a lot of lives willing to put covid restrictions in place and keep them in place.
Unfortunately, we can't stop people from coming into the state from other places. We don't have that kind of manpower. Many other states have no mask mandates or PSAs or any other general education campaigns. And as you said, FM, you're only as strong as your weakest link.
Yes, the airports are packed FM. Some of my fellow country-people don't care. Nothing will impede their "freedom."
Here in California we have public service advertisements saying wear a mask, stay 6 ft apart, limit your holiday gatherings to only people in your immediate household. If you get tested negative for covid, it doesn't mean it's a free pass to party as the incubation period is 2-14 days, etc. But other states are just now adopted mask mandates, and we've had them for months, and we're still having issues. There is a church in Northern CA over the weekend that had a concert/guest speaker event for over 300 people, even though they said they took everyone's temp before going in, but no one was wearing a mask. Their pastor was even telling people to ignore covid warnings, that only God can give/take their freedom, and to not listen to our governor. I haven't always agreed with all the measures our governor has made either, but I feel he's saved a lot of lives willing to put covid restrictions in place and keep them in place.
Unfortunately, we can't stop people from coming into the state from other places. We don't have that kind of manpower. Many other states have no mask mandates or PSAs or any other general education campaigns. And as you said, FM, you're only as strong as your weakest link.Tbh we're not much better here Vee. Between 23rd Dec and the 27th it looks like a free-for-all. Bubbles of up to 3 households will be able to meet up in each other's homes. And there are no limits on where you travel to. So let's undo everything that this current lockdown has achieved. Its just so frustrating when the vaccines are so close.
Yeah, it's really frustrating, huh, FM? The problem is, these same selfish people who don't want to wear a mask, also don't understand herd immunity, so they're unlikely to get the vaccine as well.
Pamplemousse
25-11-20, 23:48
How about the side effect that you're saving lives???
The only person Phil cares about is himself, Vee.
Pamplemousse
25-11-20, 23:52
Tbh we're not much better here Vee. Between 23rd Dec and the 27th it looks like a free-for-all. Bubbles of up to 3 households will be able to meet up in each other's homes. And there are no limits on where you travel to. So let's undo everything that this current lockdown has achieved. Its just so frustrating when the vaccines are so close.
This is why, despite knowing I will bring wrath from my family upon my nut, that I think the best thing for me to do this Christmas is to stay at home, have some snacks and play with my vintage present to myself - a Philips "Electronic Engineer" set from the early 1970s.
The only person Phil cares about is himself, Vee.
Ive spoke to plenty on the forum who have said they WONT take vaccine are they selfish too?
I never said I wouldn’t take it I am a maybe but I raised the point about about side effects as this will put people for the media spreading this so this is why I raised the point nothing about me!
Ive spoke to plenty on the forum who have said they WONT take vaccine are they selfish too?
Yes, probably, if they have no underlying medical condition that prevents them from taking it. If a person's doctor clears them to take a vaccine, then the person should take the vaccine because it helps those who have no choice but to rely on the rest of us for herd immunity.
The thing is Phil, I can see why PM said what he said. Whether you really are or not, you do come off as very self-absorbed. Just off the top of my head, one example...the driving instructor who has Covid. Your first thought wasn't, "Man, I hope that guy is okay; how awful!"... Your first thought was, "Hmmm, how long before more driving lessons?"
MyNameIsTerry
26-11-20, 09:30
My local paper put up about possibly side effects sore arm fatigue feeling poorly for a few days doesn’t cheer me up about getting a vaccine?
Sounds like when you get the flu jab.
MyNameIsTerry
26-11-20, 09:35
Tbh we're not much better here Vee. Between 23rd Dec and the 27th it looks like a free-for-all. Bubbles of up to 3 households will be able to meet up in each other's homes. And there are no limits on where you travel to. So let's undo everything that this current lockdown has achieved. Its just so frustrating when the vaccines are so close.
They must know that. Retailers are losing out so they will try to glad everyone onto the high street.
This lockdown has just been to reduce it enough to let the masses out to not sacrifice the economy. It's the time of year so businesses depend on or jobs will go.
January sales out of the way and another lockdown.
MyNameIsTerry
26-11-20, 09:37
Yeah, it's really frustrating, huh, FM? The problem is, these same selfish people who don't want to wear a mask, also don't understand herd immunity, so they're unlikely to get the vaccine as well.
I rarely see anyone cleaning their hands and trollies. They all stopped when masks were introduced. If that wasn't law they wouldn't do that either just as many stopped social distancing once shops stopped marshals and one way systems.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.