View Full Version : Vaccine to fly
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-australia-55048438
Few weeks ago it was ticket master. There you have it you will need a vaccine to do anything mandatory in all but name.
It says there is a few exemptions wonder how they will judge what these would be? Perhaps a yearly vaccine will be the new normal to go abroad or work?
Yeah, maybe.
Why not just wait until we have an approved vaccine first before we start speculating on what the future has in store?
Right now we should be happy that vaccines appear to be safe and effective so we can begin to get out of this mess.
You hear so much different things. I mean nobody knows which vaccine they may be offered?
Big question is would a vaccine stop the need for masks, social distancing ect? Can’t seem to find that answer anywhere
That's because there isn't one at the moment because no one knows..
I know you need to map out your life, Phil and it must be very hard for you not to be able to plan but I'm sure you will get your gigs and holidays back soon. Just try not to believe all you read or hear in the media. It's a waiting game for us all so you're not missing out.
You hear so much different things. I mean nobody knows which vaccine they may be offered?
Big question is would a vaccine stop the need for masks, social distancing ect? Can’t seem to find that answer anywhere
That’s because there is no answer right now. In time, chances are that the vaccines will at the very least reduce this to a manageable illness. It could wipe the virus out or it could become endemic.
We just don’t know, that’s why I’m saying it’s better to just take it one day at a time. Having effective vaccines was the first major hurdle, we still don’t know if they simply reduce disease or completely prevent infection. We still don’t know if they reduce transmission. They still have to be manufactured and distributed.
I’m afraid it’s going to be a good few months yet before we can begin to return to any type of normal.
ankietyjoe
24-11-20, 09:58
I’m afraid it’s going to be a good few months yet before we can begin to return to any type of normal.
The best guess right now appears to be March towards the end of Summer for the transition towards normality (with restrictions obviously still in place) and another round of heavy vaccinations next Winter. I would imagine Spring 2022 for 'mostly' normal to be back in place.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-australia-55048438
Few weeks ago it was ticket master. There you have it you will need a vaccine to do anything mandatory in all but name.
It says there is a few exemptions wonder how they will judge what these would be? Perhaps a yearly vaccine will be the new normal to go abroad or work?
We won’t be flying International Phil before 2022 even with a vaccine.
Do you still want to go over to NYC?
WiredIncorrectly
24-11-20, 10:55
Yeah I heard it'll be mid next year before enough people will be vaccinated. I'm going to hold off on the vaccine and let the brave heros try it out first.
We're getting married in Egypt next year Inshallah. So long as it's safe I'll have it, but us anxiety folk we worry over the smallest things.
It's difficult Phil, but remember things will return to normality. There's only so long before this virus is either wiped out, or treated like a flu. Remember, it's an illness that mostly effects the elderly, who would be at risk from flu/pneumonia on a normal day. The daily death toll in the UK is actually very low.
The media is horrible mate. Try to stay away from it that's what I'm doing.
You will love Egypt I went there when I went to Africa awhile back,cruised up the Nile camel rode around pyramids oh it was a lovely time.
We won’t be flying International Phil before 2022 even with a vaccine.
Do you still want to go over to NYC?
Yea definitely however I am hoping to wait until supersonic jets come back as my fear is long haul flying and seemingly by 2029 or sooner they could come back.
Yeah I heard it'll be mid next year before enough people will be vaccinated. I'm going to hold off on the vaccine and let the brave heros try it out first.
We're getting married in Egypt next year Inshallah. So long as it's safe I'll have it, but us anxiety folk we worry over the smallest things.
It's difficult Phil, but remember things will return to normality. There's only so long before this virus is either wiped out, or treated like a flu. Remember, it's an illness that mostly effects the elderly, who would be at risk from flu/pneumonia on a normal day. The daily death toll in the UK is actually very low.
The media is horrible mate. Try to stay away from it that's what I'm doing.
Thats true I mean they told us everybody would be tested the reality is different. They over inflated numbers and created a fear. Ticket master had to denay mandatory vaccines story. Seems to be a growing opinion you won’t be able to live a normal life without a freedom pass. I mean seemingly some countries require vaccination on entry already so this may be the new normal. I do believe masks will be stopped but I do think a vaccine may be required to enter some places. I mean offcourse we want to plan that’s what life is all about planning parties weddings holidays ect. This virus has shown us not to take every day things for granted. I went abroad so often I worried nothing could beat going to America but now a trip to France sounds a dream. I am a little tired stuck in my one area my mental health is better when I travel I find it a release from my anxiety a goal or a distraction it seems to work for me.
WiredIncorrectly
24-11-20, 11:11
You will love Egypt I went there when I went to Africa awhile back,cruised up the Nile camel rode around pyramids oh it was a lovely time.
I can't wait I'm excited. I'm excited to see the pyramids too. What parts of Africa have you seen? I'd like to give Kenya a visit.
WiredIncorrectly
24-11-20, 11:12
Thats true I mean they told us everybody would be tested the reality is different. They over inflated numbers and created a fear. Ticket master had to denay mandatory vaccines story. Seems to be a growing opinion you won’t be able to live a normal life without a freedom pass. I mean seemingly some countries require vaccination on entry already so this may be the new normal. I do believe masks will be stopped but I do think a vaccine may be required to enter some places. I mean offcourse we want to plan that’s what life is all about planning parties weddings holidays ect. This virus has shown us not to take every day things for granted. I went abroad so often I worried nothing could beat going to America but now a trip to France sounds a dream. I am a little tired stuck in my one area my mental health is better when I travel I find it a release from my anxiety a goal or a distraction it seems to work for me.
That's awesome that you're able to travel the world mate. I noticed somebody mentioned gigs, do you tour?
That's awesome that you're able to travel the world mate. I noticed somebody mentioned gigs, do you tour?
No mostly stay in Scotland for gigs but I usually attend 5 or 6 a year sadly I can’t right now. I do enjoy travelling mostly by train.
ankietyjoe
24-11-20, 11:32
They over inflated numbers and created a fear.
Who is 'they'?
The fear is there because the disease is unpredictable.
I have one friend who had it back in March. He felt rough for a couple of weeks but self isolated etc. Once he felt better, he had residual heart rate issues for another 6 months (spiking up to 200bpm at one point) and last month was rushed into hospital with a Covid related blood clot (widely reported). He is an ex-military paramedic, so knew what to do. If he hadn't of hyperdosed aspirin, it would have probably killed him. Last week he was having an MRI done because he has lost hearing in his left ear, also blood clot related.
The reason that there is fear, is because there is significant risk to long term health, even if it doesn't kill you.
Of the other 3 people I know who have had it, one is fine, two are dead. All under 50.
I really do wish people would stop playing the conspiracy card because this thing doesn't suit them.
I really do wish people would stop playing the conspiracy card because this thing doesn't suit them.
This, one million times this.
I’m actually tired of it now. All across my personal social media folk who before March this year thought that a coronavirus was something you caught from drinking too much beer are now experts in the field of virology.
I spent almost an entire day yesterday “debating” a woman who works in Asda, apparently she’s decided that mRNA is going to mess up her genetics and turn her into some kind of mutant.
She’s reading things like that from other uneducated idiots who have decided the whole things a conspiracy because, frankly, they can’t be ars*d following the rules. It really is all about them.
ankietyjoe
24-11-20, 11:47
This, one million times this.
I’m actually tired of it now. All across my personal social media folk who before March this year thought that a coronavirus was something you caught from drinking too much beer are now experts in the field of virology.
I spent almost an entire day yesterday “debating” a woman who works in Asda, apparently she’s decided that mRNA is going to mess up her genetics and turn her into some kind of mutant.
She’s reading things like that from other uneducated idiots who have decided the whole things a conspiracy because, frankly, they can’t be ars*d following the rules. It really is all about them.
Exactly.
The pal of mine who had the complications was not only an ex-military paramedic, but also a UN negotiator, has a political Doctorate AND is a two times TED talker. In other words, credible. Yet, despite knowing politics AND medicine AND having had the Virus fvck him hard, he also has friends telling him it's all a hoax. How deluded do you have to be before you brain literally stops functioning because you forgot how to breathe?
Even on the news yesterday, a moronic middle aged professional white male that lived in Richmond saying 'well we really need to lift restrictions now because people are getting sick and tired of this'.
Oh and by the way, I have another friend who IS a clinical research biologist who used to specialise in RNA based research in the USA. According to her, zero risk. RNA works one way. The only way it doesn't is the HIV Virus, which has mutated to work both way. RNA cannot, simply cannot alter your DNA. But what the fvck does she know?!
What people don’t realise about RNA is that contracting coronavirus, or any virus for that matter, means that you have that viral RNA in your body.
I don’t recall turning into a monkey or developing a new ear after my last bout of flu.
ankietyjoe
24-11-20, 12:09
The scaremongering over the RNA vaccine was in it's delivery method, in other words 'tricking' the body into responding via a side door. Of course there were precautions that had to be taken because it was new technology, but they've been researching this delivery method for decades. It hasn't been rushed into production, the ground work had been done with anti cancer vaccinations for years.
I just wish people really understood what the power of vaccination was really about. It's not even so much the protection the population gets this year, it's the fact that it slows the spread of the virus so much that catastrophic mutations are made hundreds of times less likely. It's a short term and long term solution.
WiredIncorrectly
24-11-20, 12:40
Who is 'they'?
The fear is there because the disease is unpredictable.
I have one friend who had it back in March. He felt rough for a couple of weeks but self isolated etc. Once he felt better, he had residual heart rate issues for another 6 months (spiking up to 200bpm at one point) and last month was rushed into hospital with a Covid related blood clot (widely reported). He is an ex-military paramedic, so knew what to do. If he hadn't of hyperdosed aspirin, it would have probably killed him. Last week he was having an MRI done because he has lost hearing in his left ear, also blood clot related.
The reason that there is fear, is because there is significant risk to long term health, even if it doesn't kill you.
Of the other 3 people I know who have had it, one is fine, two are dead. All under 50.
I really do wish people would stop playing the conspiracy card because this thing doesn't suit them.
Woah, that's pretty intense. I got in touch with an old friend on the phone last week and he had it while we was talking. You could hear he couldn't breath while he was talking and he had to end the call.
He's doing better now but on the phone he still sounds bad. I think I'm convinced I must not have had COVID because I didn't feel like that. My partner did though in February.
Is it common for COVID to cause long term effects?
WiredIncorrectly
24-11-20, 12:41
'tricking' the body into responding via a side door.
Honestly that sounds like a hack. In hacking you can side load payloads in the same way to bypass many restrictions.
ankietyjoe
24-11-20, 14:12
Woah, that's pretty intense. I got in touch with an old friend on the phone last week and he had it while we was talking. You could hear he couldn't breath while he was talking and he had to end the call.
He's doing better now but on the phone he still sounds bad. I think I'm convinced I must not have had COVID because I didn't feel like that. My partner did though in February.
Is it common for COVID to cause long term effects?
It doesn't affect everybody the same way J, that's why I said it's unpredictable. He also has pretty intense breathing issues, in his words he was seeing stars when he walked up the stairs, but the other pal who survived (mid 40's) had it pretty mildly.
The other two people I 'know' (both old acquaintances of my misses) were female in their mid 30's. No recorded health issues, both dead.
It's still overwhelmingly likely that you'll experience very mild symptoms, but the percentage of long term complications and death are massively higher than the flu.
What I've learned from my own health issues over the last 5 years is that the immune system is both a miracle and a curse (in some respects), and is often unpredictable. You only have to look at allergies to see how overwhelmingly dangerously it can respond in some situations where other people are fine. This seems to be the case with Covid, which is new to the human race, and therefore we don't have a de facto way of coping with it. This is why it's so much more dangerous relative to the flu (for example). And again, it's going to fine for 99% of the population, but 1% is a massive number relative to predicted deaths and would completely overwhelm every health service on the planet if precautions weren't taken, the knock on effect being other medical issues being swamped too are resources are spread out too thinly.
I have a session once a week with a DID specialist that helps me look after the misses. She's around my age and I've literally just heard that she had Covid (test carried out under procedure as she's a health care worker) and didn't even realise. That word again, unpredictable.
WiredIncorrectly
24-11-20, 14:42
Sorry to hear about the loss Joe. Mid 30's. That scares me a little that's my age. Your misses had COVID and didn't even know?
WiredIncorrectly
24-11-20, 14:43
I really do wish people would stop playing the conspiracy card because this thing doesn't suit them.
Agreed. Since I stop Googling "Coronavirus" 20 times a day I'm doing much better. I don't even read the media at all any more. It fuels the worry, which fuels your brain to overthink and get trapped in a state. I think it's the anxiety to be honest.
ankietyjoe
24-11-20, 14:56
Sorry to hear about the loss Joe. Mid 30's. That scares me a little that's my age. Your misses had COVID and didn't even know?
That's not what I said ;)
WiredIncorrectly
24-11-20, 15:05
That's not what I said ;)
Sorry I read that wrong. It was the DID specialist.
ankietyjoe
24-11-20, 15:24
Yaya. The point here is that Covid isn't predictable. If you look at the ONS data it's approx 100 times more lethal than flu. In a few years it'll probably be more or less comparable.
WiredIncorrectly
24-11-20, 15:36
Yaya. The point here is that Covid isn't predictable. If you look at the ONS data it's approx 100 times more lethal than flu. In a few years it'll probably be more or less comparable.
Do you think there's any chance the virus could mutate and make the vaccine useless? I haven't heard anybody say this, and I'm not even going to Google it. It was literally something that I thought as I was reading your reply.
WiredIncorrectly
24-11-20, 15:41
Yaya. The point here is that Covid isn't predictable.
Yeah agreed. This is what makes day to day living frustrating at the moment. It's the unpredictable nature of the virus.
ankietyjoe
24-11-20, 15:41
Do you think there's any chance the virus could mutate and make the vaccine useless? I haven't heard anybody say this, and I'm not even going to Google it. It was literally something that I thought as I was reading your reply.
Of course it's possible, that's what Virus's do. If you've ever looked into Smallpox you'll know how awful it was. Some estimates suggest that it killed 20% of ALL humans that were ever born for nearly 3000 years. It mutated so fast and was so virulent (sic) that humans simply couldn't build up resistance to it fast enough.
However, corona viruses are a different kettle of fish. We know enough about how they work now and can predict with some degree of accuracy what's going to happen. Not 100% of course, but the science is there. The biggest weapon we have against large mutation is a vaccine, simply because it pushes the R number down so low that it simply can't spread.
We experience small mutations in the flu virus every year etc, but the immune memory from the last strain is almost always enough to not produce pandemic level problems.
WiredIncorrectly
24-11-20, 15:52
Of course it's possible, that's what Virus's do. If you've ever looked into Smallpox you'll know how awful it was. Some estimates suggest that it killed 20% of ALL humans that were ever born for nearly 3000 years. It mutated so fast and was so virulent (sic) that humans simply couldn't build up resistance to it fast enough.
However, corona viruses are a different kettle of fish. We know enough about how they work now and can predict with some degree of accuracy what's going to happen. Not 100% of course, but the science is there. The biggest weapon we have against large mutation is a vaccine, simply because it pushes the R number down so low that it simply can't spread.
We experience small mutations in the flu virus every year etc, but the immune memory from the last strain is almost always enough to not produce pandemic level problems.
That makes sense.
Pamplemousse
24-11-20, 17:11
https://simpleflying.com/qantas-ceo-immunity-passports/
WiredIncorrectly
24-11-20, 17:31
https://simpleflying.com/qantas-ceo-immunity-passports/
I think a lot places are going to do this because it will allow them to open up business and run as normal.
Despite some promising trial results, no COVID-19 vaccine is yet available and there is no guarantee one will become available. But Alan Joyce has long been bullish about a vaccine as a way out of his airline’s COVID-19 woes.
This is the type of stuff that worries people like me. It makes my brain think "that's conflicting with what I've just read". Argh I shouldn't have opened that.
Do you think there's any chance the virus could mutate and make the vaccine useless? I haven't heard anybody say this, and I'm not even going to Google it. It was literally something that I thought as I was reading your reply.
I'm sure you will have googled it by now though....? Remember how suggestible you are to online "information"!
I'm amazed how many virologists and epidemiologists are dusting down their PhDs in order to proffer their opinions to the media..
It's all guesswork no matter how many letters they have after their names
ankietyjoe
24-11-20, 18:12
I'm amazed how many virologists and epidemiologists are dusting down their PhDs in order to proffer their opinions to the media..
It's all guesswork no matter how many letters they have after their names
Well no it's not really. This has been studied in detail for decades, and there are certain patterns that can be predicted.
Of course it depends on data in, which is dependent on the behavioral patterns of the general public. Taiwan was a good example of predictive action, where the government put strict guidelines in place almost immediately, predicted that numbers would be X in around 6 weeks and that's exactly what happened. That's mainly because the population just put their bloody masks on and didn't start whining about freedom.
WiredIncorrectly
24-11-20, 18:27
I'm sure you will have googled it by now though....? Remember how suggestible you are to online "information"!
I haven't Googled it yet. I seem to be ok with resisting Google atm. Probably because I'm vey busy.
WiredIncorrectly
24-11-20, 18:49
Taiwan was a good example of predictive action, where the government put strict guidelines in place almost immediately, predicted that numbers would be X in around 6 weeks and that's exactly what happened. That's mainly because the population just put their bloody masks on and didn't start whining about freedom.
That's why I feel this country should be doing the same. I don't understand the reason for opening pubs and restaurants because they're breeding grounds. All seems a bit ludicrous. It sucks to be in this situation but I think we all need to be patient and proactive.
Good things come to those that wait?
Well no it's not really. This has been studied in detail for decades, and there are certain patterns that can be predicted.
Of course it depends on data in, which is dependent on the behavioral patterns of the general public. Taiwan was a good example of predictive action, where the government put strict guidelines in place almost immediately, predicted that numbers would be X in around 6 weeks and that's exactly what happened. That's mainly because the population just put their bloody masks on and didn't start whining about freedom.
It all depends on compliance and human behaviour and the Great British Public please themselves because they can.
ankietyjoe
24-11-20, 19:43
That's why I feel this country should be doing the same. I don't understand the reason for opening pubs and restaurants because they're breeding grounds. All seems a bit ludicrous. It sucks to be in this situation but I think we all need to be patient and proactive.
Good things come to those that wait?
We absolutely should be doing it too, but for whatever reason we have a large minority of people who 'know better'.
I will concede that some concessions need to be made to the economy and you can't just expect every single person in the country who can't work from home to just suck it up, but we as a population really do need to play ball a bit more and stop whining like little babies about our 'lost freedoms'. It's pathetic.
It all depends on compliance and human behaviour and the Great British Public please themselves because they can.
Yes I completely agree, I'm just suggesting that it's not all a big guessing game. There are very sophisticated modelling tools out there that can predict multiple levels of outcome in startling accuracy.
We absolutely should be doing it too, but for whatever reason we have a large minority of people who 'know better'.
I will concede that some concessions need to be made to the economy and you can't just expect every single person in the country who can't work from home to just suck it up, but we as a population really do need to play ball a bit more and stop whining like little babies about our 'lost freedoms'. It's pathetic.
Yes I completely agree, I'm just suggesting that it's not all a big guessing game. There are very sophisticated modelling tools out there that can predict multiple levels of outcome in startling accuracy.
I'm sure they are very sophisticated but ...I think the jury's out on the accuracy bit.
WiredIncorrectly
25-11-20, 16:52
They're already predicting a 3rd wave. Well that's inevitable. I'm going to remain locked down until there's a vaccine out there that's working.
So will we need a vaccine to live freely that’s the question? If it was yearly vaccines I wonder how that would work maybe people would have a limited life?
So will we need a vaccine to live freely that’s the question? If it was yearly vaccines I wonder how that would work maybe people would have a limited life?
How many times can anyone tell you that we just don’t know? We need to wait for a vaccine to actually be approved and distributed.
You won't get a different response on here even if you keep on asking the same question repeatedly, Phil.
ankietyjoe
26-11-20, 09:58
So will we need a vaccine to live freely that’s the question? If it was yearly vaccines I wonder how that would work maybe people would have a limited life?
Yes. With a big needle, in your arm. Every year, probably twice.
If you don't want to do it, stay at home and shut up.
panic_down_under
26-11-20, 11:24
Perhaps a yearly vaccine will be the new normal to go abroad or work?
Which would not anything new. Not that many decades ago you had to have shots for every disease endemic to whatever part of the world you were going to. Often people had to have a handful of them all on the same day if they were flying on short notice (been there, done that, got the T-shirt :ohmy:). No vaccine, no travel. Some are still mandatory (https://immunisationhandbook.health.gov.au/vaccination-for-special-risk-groups/vaccination-for-international-travellers#accordion-para-11761-189922) for certain countries.
I think we will require them for all those coming to Australia probably for several years, especially from countries where Covid-19 is rampant.
Pamplemousse
26-11-20, 12:20
Yes. With a big needle, in your arm. Every year, probably twice.
If you don't want to do it, stay at home and shut up.
Hear, hear.
MyNameIsTerry
26-11-20, 15:16
Which would not anything new. Not that many decades ago you had to have shots for every disease endemic to whatever part of the world you were going to. Often people had to have a handful of them all on the same day if they were flying on short notice (been there, done that, got the T-shirt :ohmy:). No vaccine, no travel. Some are still mandatory (https://immunisationhandbook.health.gov.au/vaccination-for-special-risk-groups/vaccination-for-international-travellers#accordion-para-11761-189922) for certain countries.
I think we will require them for all those coming to Australia probably for several years, especially from countries where Covid-19 is rampant.
Yep, it's no big deal. And for those thinking they don't want a few days feeling rubbish they could ask you or others that just had to put up with it.
People are building this up into a series of roadblocks. Typical of negative thinking traps.
So will we need a vaccine to live freely that’s the question? If it was yearly vaccines I wonder how that would work maybe people would have a limited life?
That is a totally unknown quantity at this moment. You'd need a crystal ball to work that one out, I'm afraid.
The proof will be in the pudding, if the vaccine is actually approved for use and what the data says after (we hope) most people take up the option of actually having the vaccine.
That is a totally unknown quantity at this moment. You'd need a crystal ball to work that one out, I'm afraid.
The proof will be in the pudding, if the vaccine is actually approved for use and what the data says after (we hope) most people take up the option of actually having the vaccine.
True but we can speculate and airline bosses and suggested a immunity passport may be required. I wish governments would set out guidelines more of what happens if you don’t or do take the vaccine
MyNameIsTerry
27-11-20, 09:29
Airlines are really stuck in the middle because countries may issue different guidelines. Having a pass might be a way to avoid lots of different rules.
It's a matter of wait and see. If they do enforce certain things your choices are clear.
Is it so different to all the different laws we have to respect when we travel?
I thought Phil had a fear of flying?
MyNameIsTerry
28-11-20, 05:54
I thought Phil had a fear of flying?
He has. He's been on about short hauls at first to see how he handles it. Otherwise he trains it around some of Europe.
If he can't get back in from France they have plenty of spare dinghies they can lend him.
I have a dinghy but it has a hole in it :D
Don’t think Phill will be flying long haul for awhile,maybe this is a good time to conquer that fear.
I am feeling a little anxious about the covid vaccine. I am still worried they will restrict my life and I won’t be able to go football or pubs or concerts. Sure there may be saliva testing or covid tablet vaccines in development but will these really happen? Swab tests are two jabs don’t seem appealing? Can anybody reassure me normal life will continue?
I felt ok about vaccine before but now it gives me nightmares
Gawd strewth Phil,you are worrying about yourself what about your wife?has she got a tongue I hope so.
Your life will be the same.Have you started CBT again.
I am feeling a little anxious about the covid vaccine. I am still worried they will restrict my life and I won’t be able to go football or pubs or concerts. Sure there may be saliva testing or covid tablet vaccines in development but will these really happen? Swab tests are two jabs don’t seem appealing? Can anybody reassure me normal life will continue?
I felt ok about vaccine before but now it gives me nightmares
No one will be able to give you the reassurance you want no matter how many times you ask the same question, Phil.
I appreciate that your interests are very important to you and you need to know what is going to happen. It's really hard to accept that there are no definite answers to what you need to know, only possible outcomes but I don't suppose this will be enough to calm your anxieties?
No one will be able to give you the reassurance you want no matter how many times you ask the same question, Phil.
I appreciate that your interests are very important to you and you need to know what is going to happen. It's really hard to accept that there are no definite answers to what you need to know, only possible outcomes but I don't suppose this will be enough to calm your anxieties?
Yep sure nobody can give me a proper answer yet I understand that.
However needs to be an open society discussion especially when Sky News run polls to say ban those who don’t take a vaccine.
I am not just worried about myself I know people in the family who won’t take it so let’s say they make it you need a passport to go to the pub so “uncle Bob” can’t go to Amanda’s 21’s birthday Meal. Someone in there family can’t take vaccine so family holidays are out or Andrew gets left behind. Soon it affects mental health if people are banned from normal things depression suicides would be on the increase I find this very worrying and people would become second tier citizens. Even if I did get a vaccine eventually I would feel uneasy about those who are banned from society. It’s all very stuff of a sci-fi movie. Maybe you can address these concerns?
Maybe you can address these concerns?
Sorry... "It is what it is" - DJT
FMP
Yep sure nobody can give me a proper answer yet I understand that.
However needs to be an open society discussion especially when Sky News run polls to say ban those who don’t take a vaccine.
I am not just worried about myself I know people in the family who won’t take it so let’s say they make it you need a passport to go to the pub so “uncle Bob” can’t go to Amanda’s 21’s birthday Meal. Someone in there family can’t take vaccine so family holidays are out or Andrew gets left behind. Soon it affects mental health if people are banned from normal things depression suicides would be on the increase I find this very worrying and people would become second tier citizens. Even if I did get a vaccine eventually I would feel uneasy about those who are banned from society. It’s all very stuff of a sci-fi movie. Maybe you can address these concerns?
No this isn't a sci-fi movie and you must stop thinking that everything you read or see is going to come true. I appreciate that you have needle phobia but you won't be banned from society. This isn't North Korea. What do people on Digital Spy say? What has been said to worry you?
No this isn't a sci-fi movie and you must stop thinking that everything you read or see is going to come true. I appreciate that you have needle phobia but you won't be banned from society. This isn't North Korea. What do people on Digital Spy say? What has been said to worry you?
You are correct not everything will come true. Don’t we all get anxiety about stuff we read for a while it was Brexit? Many of them are pro vaccine over there but it is a very left wing Labour forum so no surprise. I think Labour voting remain people are the pro vaxers. I myself am a bit of a swing voter I have voted for different parties at each election.
Problem is nobody knows what will happen so lots of speculation.
We literally don’t know. I don’t know how many times anyone can say this to you.
We don’t know the threshold for herd immunity, we don’t know the length of immunity and we don’t know how long it’ll take to declare this pandemic over.
If you’re worried about being unable to do things due to refusing vaccination then why not try and really look into why you’re so against it.
You might find that you’ve based your refusal on a load of nonsense.
We literally don’t know. I don’t know how many times anyone can say this to you.
We don’t know the threshold for herd immunity, we don’t know the length of immunity and we don’t know how long it’ll take to declare this pandemic over.
If you’re worried about being unable to do things due to refusing vaccination then why not try and really look into why you’re so against it.
You might find that you’ve based your refusal on a load of nonsense.
I would consider the covid tablet vaccine it’s in phase 1 trials however again nobody knows if it would replace these existing vaccines or come along as an alternative
If you had to choose between having your life "back" with all your favourite things to look forward to..provided that you had a jab (injection route only) or refusing the jab due to fear and not being able to resume your routines, what would you choose?
If you had to choose between having your life "back" with all your favourite things to look forward to..provided that you had a jab (injection route only) or refusing the jab due to fear and not being able to resume your routines, what would you choose?
I would do without the things I enjoy to see how the jab affects people first. And hope for a tablet vaccine/oral one like the flu? Or atleast one dose jab rather than two :)
Well there’s your decision Phil and you need to learn to be at peace with your choice.
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Yes it's a good decision so stick with that and try to stop reading all the rubbish which is doing the rounds online and in the Daily Fail for example? You won't "miss out" on anything. It's fine to be selective in what you choose to read.
Yes it's a good decision so stick with that and try to stop reading all the rubbish which is doing the rounds online and in the Daily Fail for example? You won't "miss out" on anything. It's fine to be selective in what you choose to read.
I would miss out if they restrict people I mean even if I got some form of vaccine I don’t believe we should live in a China state where things are forced
MyNameIsTerry
08-12-20, 07:29
Yep sure nobody can give me a proper answer yet I understand that.
However needs to be an open society discussion especially when Sky News run polls to say ban those who don’t take a vaccine.
I am not just worried about myself I know people in the family who won’t take it so let’s say they make it you need a passport to go to the pub so “uncle Bob” can’t go to Amanda’s 21’s birthday Meal. Someone in there family can’t take vaccine so family holidays are out or Andrew gets left behind. Soon it affects mental health if people are banned from normal things depression suicides would be on the increase I find this very worrying and people would become second tier citizens. Even if I did get a vaccine eventually I would feel uneasy about those who are banned from society. It’s all very stuff of a sci-fi movie. Maybe you can address these concerns?
But this will be temporary. It's about protecting the vulnerable, stopping the impacts to hospirals and the economy. We won't be in tiers or lockdowns once the vaccine is done. The world will return to before.
To be able to use the current powers there has to be a public emergency. Once the vaccine runs are complete there won't be one anymore.
MyNameIsTerry
08-12-20, 07:34
You are correct not everything will come true. Don’t we all get anxiety about stuff we read for a while it was Brexit? Many of them are pro vaccine over there but it is a very left wing Labour forum so no surprise. I think Labour voting remain people are the pro vaxers. I myself am a bit of a swing voter I have voted for different parties at each election.
Problem is nobody knows what will happen so lots of speculation.
Phil, the politics board on DS is an utterly vile place. Bullying, racism, mega tribalism.
You've been on there quite a while so must have seen all the nastiness that took place around 2016. Some seriously vile people. I don't see them as a representation of left or right, many are the dross of either end. There are some reasonable people too and how often do you see them say on GD they avoid the politics board because of the tribal nature of those who haunt it?
MyNameIsTerry
08-12-20, 07:38
I would do without the things I enjoy to see how the jab affects people first. And hope for a tablet vaccine/oral one like the flu? Or atleast one dose jab rather than two :)
But when the oral form came along you would then have to wait to see how that affected people. Or are you saying you would take the oral form straight away? If so that shows it's less about how it affects people and more about the needle.
But when the oral form came along you would then have to wait to see how that affected people. Or are you saying you would take the oral form straight away? If so that shows it's less about how it affects people and more about the needle.
I would wait and see. I mean in the ideal world 70% take the vaccine life goes back to normal and we don’t hear about covid like sars, bird flu, swine flu ect again maybe it’s out there but rare. In that case maybe no rush for a vaccine. If it was still a danger and there was a tablet I would consider taking it again not saying I would be first would depend on how much the virus is out there. Sure life is uncertain but covid has made every day uncertain you can barely plan your breakfast for tomorrow never mind a holiday. I am surprised people have sat back and taken being told what to do.
With politics in America it’s very worrying times as is in the UK as Boris has been a let down as PM. I would swing towards Scottish independence now and I was very pro union. One good reason is we never went full second lockdown like England.
Phil, the politics board on DS is an utterly vile place. Bullying, racism, mega tribalism.
You've been on there quite a while so must have seen all the nastiness that took place around 2016. Some seriously vile people. I don't see them as a representation of left or right, many are the dross of either end. There are some reasonable people too and how often do you see them say on GD they avoid the politics board because of the tribal nature of those who haunt it?
I use to online represented everybody but there is people I know who don’t even use Facebook so probably don’t use forums. Sadly when socialising is banned right now it’s hard to hear different views down the pub. All I know is everybody is just getting on with it but I hear from very little family or friends. Quite somber really but I guess others have the same issue I spoke to someone in my family who has been working from home and seen nobody all year.
And it is very hard trying to argue on a Labour Pro Remain Pro Vaccine forum. I wish there was more balanced onions to everything on forums but seems they are in the minority. I avoid the Trump topics too they can be very heated
MyNameIsTerry
08-12-20, 14:13
And it is very hard trying to argue on a Labour Pro Remain Pro Vaccine forum. I wish there was more balanced onions to everything on forums but seems they are in the minority. I avoid the Trump topics too they can be very heated
Yep, big anti Trump threads on there. If Gary ever goes on there he won't have missed the tendency of online ScotNats to be as credible as anti vaxxers.
MyNameIsTerry
08-12-20, 14:20
I would wait and see. I mean in the ideal world 70% take the vaccine life goes back to normal and we don’t hear about covid like sars, bird flu, swine flu ect again maybe it’s out there but rare. In that case maybe no rush for a vaccine. If it was still a danger and there was a tablet I would consider taking it again not saying I would be first would depend on how much the virus is out there. Sure life is uncertain but covid has made every day uncertain you can barely plan your breakfast for tomorrow never mind a holiday. I am surprised people have sat back and taken being told what to do.
With politics in America it’s very worrying times as is in the UK as Boris has been a let down as PM. I would swing towards Scottish independence now and I was very pro union. One good reason is we never went full second lockdown like England.
Governments change. The last election was mostly about Brexit and the Labour party swinging too far left. The next one, providing Brexit has been done, will hopefully be more about home issues. And dont forget the same experts advising the government, the scientific groups, would have been the same under Labour. Not to mention Corbyn's slow response to everything. It's an unusual time where governments can shine or be caught out.
Your independence is worth a separate decision. If you go you will be asking the EU for loans. The cry here will be to not allow Scotland avoid it's debt responsibilities (where the ScotNats and hard Brexitors share opinions on not paying their dues) and pull everything out into the remaining UK. And expect the Orneys & co to have their own say as the SNP are doing to them what Westminster is doing to Scotland. I think one big question to ask if is it's better under the SNP?
I heard there is a vaccine where it requires just one dose is almost ready and also the tablet vaccine. Perhaps better solutions are ahead?
However I feel quite bad other than my work colleagues and mother I have barely seen anyone all year. I am surprised others cope I mean I see nobody I can do nothing even during the war things were never this restrictive. But yes it gets to me as there has been so little to do. The future is more uncertain than ever we have no idea when and if these restrictions will go I mean I read masks to continue into winter 2021 how cheerful?
glassgirlw
08-12-20, 21:40
Here’s my two cents. Your catastrophising something that absolutely no one has a way to predict at this point. How long we wear masks and distance is going to come down to how many people choose to get the vaccine, providing the makers of the vaccines can keep up with the demand, and shipments arrive where they need to go as scheduled. There’s just no way to determine any of those variables at this point in time.
I did read some interesting studies on the oral tablet vaccine - but they don’t expect it to be ready for release until well into 2021.
I know that the lack of control over the situation is extremely hard to deal with. But it seems to me that there is no time like the present to develop some coping strategies for exactly this situation since we all find ourselves in it right now. And, we’re in a much better position right now than we were at the beginning of this whole thing a year ago. There is a light at the end of the tunnel now, vaccines are here, treatments are better - try to focus on the positives and what we know rather than trying to guess what’s going to happen towards the end of 2021.
You can still see people though..Just not indoors here in England.
I thought you had an exclusion from wearing a mask though? At least you still have a job whereas many people have lost theirs or have had their hours greatly reduced.
Things could be worse. You could live in China or North Korea. You could be homeless. Instead you are having to do without holidays, gigs and football. I know this is very significant for you but for many people covid has brought about far greater losses and some people are dealing with very challenging home situations completely unsupported. Not that I would expect you to be remotely interested in other people's misfortune and distress though.
Here’s my two cents. Your catastrophising something that absolutely no one has a way to predict at this point. How long we wear masks and distance is going to come down to how many people choose to get the vaccine, providing the makers of the vaccines can keep up with the demand, and shipments arrive where they need to go as scheduled. There’s just no way to determine any of those variables at this point in time.
I did read some interesting studies on the oral tablet vaccine - but they don’t expect it to be ready for release until well into 2021.
I know that the lack of control over the situation is extremely hard to deal with. But it seems to me that there is no time like the present to develop some coping strategies for exactly this situation since we all find ourselves in it right now. And, we’re in a much better position right now than we were at the beginning of this whole thing a year ago. There is a light at the end of the tunnel now, vaccines are here, treatments are better - try to focus on the positives and what we know rather than trying to guess what’s going to happen towards the end of 2021.
Thanks it’s hard accept that it’s better than earlier in the year but guess it is. If an oral vaccine comes that’s great news to.
You can still see people though..Just not indoors here in England.
I thought you had an exclusion from wearing a mask though? At least you still have a job whereas many people have lost theirs or have had their hours greatly reduced.
Things could be worse. You could live in China or North Korea. You could be homeless. Instead you are having to do without holidays, gigs and football. I know this is very significant for you but for many people covid has brought about far greater losses and some people are dealing with very challenging home situations completely unsupported. Not that I would expect you to be remotely interested in other people's misfortune and distress though.
I agree there is people come for worse with covid and job loses and again yes we are not like China. I am just not enjoying things right now. My area has dropped down a level so things like bingo halls and ten pin bowing can open again which is some good news. I work all week and I find myself stuck in the house a lot right now and that doesn’t help my anxiety. Earlier in the pandemic I got into playing musical instruments but I got bored of that. I played some sport over the summer and that got boring too. I mean one positive is I can save plenty of money as I can’t spend it but I do enjoy spending but can’t of nothing is open.
I agree there is people come for worse with covid and job loses and again yes we are not like China. I am just not enjoying things right now. My area has dropped down a level so things like bingo halls and ten pin bowing can open again which is some good news. I work all week and I find myself stuck in the house a lot right now and that doesn’t help my anxiety. Earlier in the pandemic I got into playing musical instruments but I got bored of that. I played some sport over the summer and that got boring too. I mean one positive is I can save plenty of money as I can’t spend it but I do enjoy spending but can’t of nothing is open.
Dude, do you think anybody is enjoying things right now? The fact you’ve got the ability to do as much as you’ve just written is probably making a lot of people on this very forum very envious.
Sorry, but you need to try harder to quit throwing yourself these self pity parties.
MyNameIsTerry
09-12-20, 07:02
I heard there is a vaccine where it requires just one dose is almost ready and also the tablet vaccine. Perhaps better solutions are ahead?
However I feel quite bad other than my work colleagues and mother I have barely seen anyone all year. I am surprised others cope I mean I see nobody I can do nothing even during the war things were never this restrictive. But yes it gets to me as there has been so little to do. The future is more uncertain than ever we have no idea when and if these restrictions will go I mean I read masks to continue into winter 2021 how cheerful?
If you are referring to WWII then you are doing people a great disservice saying it's more restrictive now. We are barely restricted at all compared to them. Have you got food? Warmth? Get woken up to hide in an Anderson Shelter? See your relatives go off to fight and never return?
I would suggest reading about that period.
I agree there is people come for worse with covid and job loses and again yes we are not like China. I am just not enjoying things right now. My area has dropped down a level so things like bingo halls and ten pin bowing can open again which is some good news. I work all week and I find myself stuck in the house a lot right now and that doesn’t help my anxiety. Earlier in the pandemic I got into playing musical instruments but I got bored of that. I played some sport over the summer and that got boring too. I mean one positive is I can save plenty of money as I can’t spend it but I do enjoy spending but can’t of nothing is open.
So basically you're bored. Why not try to get some extra hours at work? Do you still work part time?
Phill why don’t you volunteer in a soup kitchen help some people worse off than YOU.
Honestly you will be surprised how good you feel.
PEOPLE with "significant allergies" have been warned by officials not to take the Covid-19 vaccine.
Two NHS workers who received the landmark Pfizer Covid jab on V Day have suffered allergic reactions needing treatment.
The staff members both had a "significant history of allergic reactions" to the extent where they need to carry an EpiPen or similar device, the NHS confirmed.
They developed symptoms of "anaphylactoid reaction" shortly after receiving the vaccine.
NHS England confirmed both are now recovering and all trusts involved with the vaccination programme have been informed.
Regulators at the MHRA have now warned anyone else with a history of “significant” allergic reactions to medicines, food or vaccines should not receive the jab.
I am unsure on my allergies but someone in my family has a nut allergy so couldn’t get this vaccine
So basically you're bored. Why not try to get some extra hours at work? Do you still work part time?
Yes still part time I won’t work extra as I hate working
Link here
http://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13425052/covid-pfizer-vaccine-significant-allergies-nhs-two-ill/amp/
With today’s news about allergic reactions I seen 7 or 8 million suffer them in UK and May not be able to get the vaccine I hope today is the day we end talk of travel bans or restrictions if you have not had this vaccine.
Fingers crossed that you can get an exemption from any injectable vaccine and are able to book all these holidays owing to you asap then.
With today’s news about allergic reactions I seen 7 or 8 million suffer them in UK and May not be able to get the vaccine I hope today is the day we end talk of travel bans or restrictions if you have not had this vaccine.
7 or 8 million people have allergies, yes, but these particular allergies were in two people with a severe history of allergic reactions to medication, so much so that they had to carry epipens. It very clearly says that it advises against this vaccine if you have a history of strong allergic reactions to medication.
I seriously doubt that’s going to include seasonal allergies and other very common reactions to other stimulants.
Also, and this is a crucial piece of info that you’re forgetting, you most likely won’t be offered this particular vaccine. You’ll most likely be offered the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine, as by the time it’s your turn this vaccine will almost certainly have gained regulatory approval. The UK has 100,000,000 doses of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine on order, compared to only 4,000,000 doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine. Effectively, by the time it’s your turn this vaccine will have been used up.
7 or 8 million people have allergies, yes, but these particular allergies were in two people with a severe history of allergic reactions to medication, so much so that they had to carry epipens. It very clearly says that it advises against this vaccine if you have a history of strong allergic reactions to medication.
I seriously doubt that’s going to include seasonal allergies and other very common reactions to other stimulants.
Also, and this is a crucial piece of info that you’re forgetting, you most likely won’t be offered this particular vaccine. You’ll most likely be offered the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine, as by the time it’s your turn this vaccine will almost certainly have gained regulatory approval. The UK has 100,000,000 doses of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine on order, compared to only 4,000,000 doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine. Effectively, by the time it’s your turn this vaccine will have been used up.
Well they are advising those with allergies to avoid but maybe it won’t affect everybody. My point is if there is a number in the population who can’t get it perhaps all more reason why we should have pub or travel bans? And the Oxford one yes I heard it’s less effective but I never googled the facts about it perhaps you want to avoid that with allergies too? I might go away and google that one
Well they are advising those with allergies to avoid but maybe it won’t affect everybody. My point is if there is a number in the population who can’t get it perhaps all more reason why we should have pub or travel bans?
Did you somehow miss this part?
The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) has given precautionary advice that anyone who has a history of "significant" allergic reactions to medicines, food or vaccines should not receive the vaccine.
"Significant" means a person has suffered anaphylaxis - a potentially life-threatening reaction which can cause breathing difficulties, confusion, vomiting or collapse - or needs to carry an EpiPen.
Now, do you suffer allergies that bring on anaphylaxis?
Stop making it all about you.
Did you somehow miss this part?
Now, do you suffer allergies that bring on anaphylaxis?
Stop making it all about you.
I might but perhaps I could get an allergy test at one of these health food stores to find out
I might but perhaps I could get an allergy test at one of these health food stores to find out
You’re trying too hard to find an excuse not to take this vaccine. If you don’t want to be vaccinated, don’t be. Again, the world isn’t going to base the future of how we treat this virus on what’s most convenient for you personally.
glassgirlw
09-12-20, 22:49
I might but perhaps I could get an allergy test at one of these health food stores to find out
I don’t know how old you are Phil, but I’m going to assume if you had suffered anaphylactic shock related to allergies in your lifetime, you’d definitely know about it.
regardless - this vaccine will not be mandatory. No one will force you to take it. If you can’t move past your fears, then don’t. But you may have to accept that if you choose to not get vaccinated, other portions of your life may have to change. So - you have to decide what’s more important to you, personally. Your travel freedoms or your unwillingness to get stuck with a needle for a couple seconds. That is a decision only you can make unfortunately.
I don’t know how old you are Phil, but I’m going to assume if you had suffered anaphylactic shock related to allergies in your lifetime, you’d definitely know about it.
regardless - this vaccine will not be mandatory. No one will force you to take it. If you can’t move past your fears, then don’t. But you may have to accept that if you choose to not get vaccinated, other portions of your life may have to change. So - you have to decide what’s more important to you, personally. Your travel freedoms or your unwillingness to get stuck with a needle for a couple seconds. That is a decision only you can make unfortunately.
This is the problem speculation that my life will change if I don’t take this vaccine. Again there is no proof it will change no other vaccine restricts people living life so I hope this one doesn’t.
Dec 10 (Reuters) - The chief executive of holiday group TUI said the company had no plans to turn away customers who have not had the COVID-19 vaccine and testing passengers would remain important over the coming months.
"No," he said, when asked on a call with reporters whether he would turn away a non-vaccinated customer. "I think this would be a mistake. Tests ... are absolutely the important thing." (Reporting by Sarah Young; Editing by Mark Potter)
Perhaps they will test instead? I wonder when the saliva testing will come into place where you can test yourself first and before you come back?
MyNameIsTerry
10-12-20, 13:07
Perhaps they will test instead? I wonder when the saliva testing will come into place where you can test yourself first and before you come back?
Have you had one? If you don't like needles you may not like how far up the nose the test goes. The nurse who performed my mum's said it was a horrible test.
It must be hard for children.
MyNameIsTerry
10-12-20, 13:08
This is the problem speculation that my life will change if I don’t take this vaccine. Again there is no proof it will change no other vaccine restricts people living life so I hope this one doesn’t.
Yes, there are. Dont people still have jabs for malaria amongst others?
Yes, there are. Dont people still have jabs for malaria amongst others?
Yes maybe.
But this uncertainty is awful I will be glad when they account when restrictions and face masks ect come to an end. I am sure they said we can’t all have a big party too which is a shame. Again I wish they would also clarify that jabs don’t be needed for the pub but it was good Ryanair and TUI have come out and said you won’t I do feel more have to do the same. If not for people with anxiety it’s no fun worrying as I find testing masks needles distressful to be honest
Again...no one will force you to do anything but you won't have any control over what decisions are made in the future re hospitality and travel so will have to tolerate a certain amount of uncertainty re change. This won't be easy for you, I appreciate that.
Pamplemousse
10-12-20, 14:27
Yes, there are. Dont people still have jabs for malaria amongst others?
You can't be vaccinated against malaria, but if you go and work in Brazil like I did a few years ago there's a mountain of jabs you are advised to have:
https://www.fitfortravel.nhs.uk/destinations/south-america-antarctica/brazil
I had the lot and it took a few weeks.
MyNameIsTerry
10-12-20, 15:08
You can't be vaccinated against malaria, but if you go and work in Brazil like I did a few years ago there's a mountain of jabs you are advised to have:
https://www.fitfortravel.nhs.uk/destinations/south-america-antarctica/brazil
I had the lot and it took a few weeks.
Agreed. A friend years ago picked it up whilst in the services. Years later he would get small flare ups lasting about a week.
MyNameIsTerry
10-12-20, 15:12
Yes maybe.
But this uncertainty is awful I will be glad when they account when restrictions and face masks ect come to an end. I am sure they said we can’t all have a big party too which is a shame. Again I wish they would also clarify that jabs don’t be needed for the pub but it was good Ryanair and TUI have come out and said you won’t I do feel more have to do the same. If not for people with anxiety it’s no fun worrying as I find testing masks needles distressful to be honest
It's as pulisa says, phil. There will be guidelines and companies will add some info to their sites but smaller businesses are unlikely to be producing corporate responsibility statements and pubs might be on the level of sticking a poster up outside.
Rather than worry over getting concrete assurance this is where you need to work on loosening your need for them.
What we need to wait for is the vaccinations to move on a bit. Things should change then even if they ease up a bit until more like next summer. It's just a write off year for many things. I can't say that bothers me much at all since I've written off far larger due to anxiety.
It's as pulisa says, phil. There will be guidelines and companies will add some info to their sites but smaller businesses are unlikely to be producing corporate responsibility statements and pubs might be on the level of sticking a poster up outside.
Rather than worry over getting concrete assuring this is where you need to work on loosening your need for them.
What we need to wait for is the vaccinations to move on a bit. Things should change then even if they ease up a bit until more like next summer. It's just a write off year for many things. I can't say that bothers me much at all since I've written off far larger due to anxiety.
Yes I mean I spent years in my late teens indoors struggled to go to cinema without a panic attack I did waste years of my life doing very little enjoyable. That said I’m not at that stage now so I feel annoyed about it all. I am sure we will know more in the coming weeks I mean I read something about MP’s asking to legislate that people won’t have restrictions if they refuse vaccine that would be good. If stuff like this and TUI says you can fly it puts my mind at ease. Sure it won’t help the pro vaxers happy but as I pointed out they don’t make the choices they are not the government. I believe people in government would approach things much more sensibly.
Again...no one will force you to do anything but you won't have any control over what decisions are made in the future re hospitality and travel so will have to tolerate a certain amount of uncertainty re change. This won't be easy for you, I appreciate that.
True you often say this isn’t just about me but do you feel it’s fair if millions will be banned? It’s highly likely in a population of 56 million that a small number of millions won’t take it. Do you feel that’s fair? Should they be banned from things?
What concerns me is the pro vaxers who want to ban people in society meaning if they refuse the vaccine they could be isolated a two tier society lonely banned from sport banned from the pub. This will create a mental health crisis, suicides probably. Surely on a mental health forum people can see that would be a very serious issue in society? The fact there is people in society that would do this concerns me
Problem is these people don’t care about ethics, human rights or someone’s anxiety but it doesn’t help when you have some Australian airline coming out spreading bile to put ideas in peoples head
Phil, you’re just babbling nonsense now. Sorry, but you are. I repeat, the only way there will be mandatory vaccination is if there is not sufficient herd immunity to end this as a pandemic.
Nobody is going to come out and say too much right now because there is so much uncertainty surrounding how this is going to play out. You’ll just need to do as the rest of us have to and suck it up until we know more.
If you don’t want to take the vaccine, that’s your call. You’ve made your mind up and you’re sticking to it. Now you’ve got to understand that there are people out there who are going to want you to be restricted with certain things. That’s not to say that’s going to happen, but yeah, folk will want you restricted for refusing vaccination. I’m sure they’ll stick to their guns just as stubbornly as you’re sticking to yours.
Phil, you’re just babbling nonsense now. Sorry, but you are. I repeat, the only way there will be mandatory vaccination is if there is not sufficient herd immunity to end this as a pandemic.
Nobody is going to come out and say too much right now because there is so much uncertainty surrounding how this is going to play out. You’ll just need to do as the rest of us have to and suck it up until we know more.
If you don’t want to take the vaccine, that’s your call. You’ve made your mind up and you’re sticking to it. Now you’ve got to understand that there are people out there who are going to want you to be restricted with certain things. That’s not to say that’s going to happen, but yeah, folk will want you restricted for refusing vaccination. I’m sure they’ll stick to their guns just as stubbornly as you’re sticking to yours.
It’s a shame we live in such a divisive society and people can’t respect people’s views though. I mean the side who believe there should be no exemptions.
It’s a shame we live in such a divisive society and people can’t respect people’s views though. I mean the side who believe there should be no exemptions.
But you believe that you should be exempt from restrictions if you refuse vaccination. You don’t respect the views of those who disagree with that.
I feel it’s just another example of someone who likes to loudly voice an opinion and claim that any opinion to the contrary is lacking “respect.”
For the record, I respect your right to an opinion, but I don’t respect the opinion itself.
But you believe that you should be exempt from restrictions if you refuse vaccination. You don’t respect the views of those who disagree with that.
I feel it’s just another example of someone who likes to loudly voice an opinion and claim that any opinion to the contrary is lacking “respect.”
For the record, I respect your right to an opinion, but I don’t respect the opinion itself.
I have not ruled out having the vaccines there is a tablet version in development due out in 2021. However even if I did get the vaccine I don’t support restrictions on people. So to repeat I may have this vaccine but I won’t be first. I may not have it but regardless I don’t believe we should become a China and ban people. Infact I don’t think in China they have banned anybody who doesn’t get the new vaccine they have over there.
I have not ruled out having the vaccines there is a tablet version in development due out in 2021. However even if I did get the vaccine I don’t support restrictions on people. So to repeat I may have this vaccine but I won’t be first. I may not have it but regardless I don’t believe we should become a China and ban people. Infact I don’t think in China they have banned anybody who doesn’t get the new vaccine they have over there.
Yes you’ve said. You don’t want to become China. Coolio.
True you often say this isn’t just about me but do you feel it’s fair if millions will be banned? It’s highly likely in a population of 56 million that a small number of millions won’t take it. Do you feel that’s fair? Should they be banned from things?
Phil don't pretend you're interested in the "millions" who MAY just MAY be banned from SOME SPECIFIC events in the future. This is all about your fears re needles, your annoyance that covid has scuppered your plans/bucket list itinerary temporarily and your desire to be in control of everything.
Phil don't pretend you're interested in the "millions" who MAY just MAY be banned from SOME SPECIFIC events in the future. This is all about your fears re needles, your annoyance that covid has scuppered your plans/bucket list itinerary temporarily and your desire to be in control of everything.
Not tall I have people in my family who won’t get the jab someone suffers allergic reactions too so I would very much hope they can live a free life too
MyNameIsTerry
10-12-20, 19:06
Phil, there is a question those in charge need to ask: is it worse to restrict people for a time or let them run free increasing the deaths of the vulnerable.
If you take the economy out of the equation it's a no brainer. People can learn to deal with change to preserve the lives of others.
Nut allergies keep getting mentioned on here today. Some people dislike nut allergy warnings and places that restrict menus because of it. But it saves lives. Isn't that more important?
Smoking. Look how annoyed smokers are over restrictions placed on them. But isn't it more important to reduce lung cancer cases in those who don't smoke?
How many want to drink and drive? How many want to drive aggressively?
Why is someone's need to party greater than someone's existence? Imagine how you would feel if test & trace went one step further? Imagine if it traced who you killed? How terrible would we feel? How terrible would we feel if that death was the result of wanting a beer?
Phil, there is a question those in charge need to ask: is it worse to restrict people for a time or let them run free increasing the deaths of the vulnerable.
If you take the economy out of the equation it's a no brainer. People can learn to deal with change to preserve the lives of others.
Nut allergies keep getting mentioned on here today. Some people dislike nut allergy warnings and places that restrict menus because of it. But it saves lives. Isn't that more important?
Smoking. Look how annoyed smokers are over restrictions placed on them. But isn't it more important to reduce lung cancer cases in those who don't smoke?
How many want to drink and drive? How many want to drive aggressively?
Why is someone's need to party greater than someone's existence? Imagine how you would feel if test & trace went one step further? Imagine if it traced who you killed? How terrible would we feel? How terrible would we feel if that death was the result of wanting a beer?
Im sorry but you can’t compare seatbelts and smokers to a vaccine. I skipped my TB jab at school are you going to tell me how bad I was? I had that choice though. When it comes to injectable and medical treatment only YOU should decide unless you can’t make choice yourself due to illness. I think it’s very dangerous when people here are suggesting what medical treatment others should take. People who think everybody’s should have the vaccine need to think through the logistics peoples personal reasons. Nobody should be shamed for refusing a very rushed vaccine I am sure many others would agree.
MyNameIsTerry
10-12-20, 20:16
Phil, you miss the point which is other people are denied the choice.
Phil, you miss the point which is other people are denied the choice.
The death rate and hospital rate will fall once everybody is vaccinated. Even the government have said they will trust people to take there own choices as it should be.
You keep pushing peoples bloody buttons Phil.
Don’t take the vaccine leave it at that,at the end of the day I don’t think anyone gives a rats a rse.
He added: “Absolutely not, categorically there will not be an immunity passport in the United Kingdom."
Prof Chris Whitty today told MPs social distancing restrictions could start being lifted once 20 million vulnerable Brits have been vaccinated.
But the Chief Medical Officer also said that could only happen "gradually" and not in the next three months.
He warned "we’re all very nervous about January and February" and said "I think it’s very unlikely we’ll get to zero level of risk.”
Instead, Prof Whitty said, the government would likely choose to lift restrictions despite people still dying of Covid each year - like thousands already do from flu.
He added: "At a certain point society, through political leaders... will say this level of risk is a level of risk we think it is appropriate to tolerate.
"Just as we accept that in an average year, 7,000 people a year die of flu and in a bad flu year 20,000 people die of flu.
https://www.mentalhealthforum.net/forum/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Fget--latest-convrse-media.cdn.ampproject.org%2Fi%2Fs%2Fget-latest.convrse.media%2F1x1.png&hash=282296aa518fd60ccf7dbcd53e1333f4
"That’s just we accept that as that is what happens biologically.
Not quite forced vaccination but forced testing to get more freedoms
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9068529/Austria-offer-coronavirus-tests-entire-population-country-prepares-lockdown.html#article-9068529
Seems this is the route some countries want to go down I am glad in the uk it’s voluntary
glassgirlw
18-12-20, 23:12
Not quite forced vaccination but forced testing to get more freedoms
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9068529/Austria-offer-coronavirus-tests-entire-population-country-prepares-lockdown.html#article-9068529
Seems this is the route some countries want to go down I am glad in the uk it’s voluntary
I see nothing wrong with requiring a negative test result to board a plane. It’s already happening in multiple states in the US and I see that continuing for the near future.
Not quite forced vaccination but forced testing to get more freedoms
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9068529/Austria-offer-coronavirus-tests-entire-population-country-prepares-lockdown.html#article-9068529
Seems this is the route some countries want to go down I am glad in the uk it’s voluntary
Is there any particular reason why you’ve whined, pissed and moaned your way through this entire thing?
Seriously, it’s beyond parody at this point. You didn’t want to work because there was a risk of contracting Covid, you didn’t want to wear a mask because of anxiety. You didn’t like the idea of people being furloughed because, in your words, they were just enjoying “free money”.
Now, you don’t want to be tested, you don’t want to be restricted in travelling and yet, you don’t want to take a vaccine either because you’re afraid of needles.
You’re pretty far from being a team player there Phil. Frankly, it might be time for you to look in the mirror and try to do your bit with this pandemic rather than being a snivelling whiner who seems to enjoy complaining.
Just a thought.
Phil, have you ever spoken to a therapist or psychologist?
Pamplemousse
19-12-20, 08:13
Well said, Gary. I've long lost any sympathy I might have had for Phil and am just sick to death of his selfish, self-centred childish whining.
Put up or shut up, Phil. Enough.
Well said, Gary. I've long lost any sympathy I might have had for Phil and am just sick to death of his selfish, self-centred childish whining.
Put up or shut up, Phil. Enough.
Seconded PM.
Although I don't usually like having digs at others on here but I kind of agree that Phil is coming across as rather ungrateful as he seems to have pooh-poohed almost every suggested solution to this Covid pandemic so far, as already stated by Gary upthread, but him being against the furlough scheme in particular just beggars belief, as far as I'm concerned.
Had the govt not commissioned said scheme and simply sat on their backsides and did naff all, more than half of the UK population would have been completely destitute by now!
Sadly some people just don't seem to live in the real world!!
Pamplemousse
19-12-20, 16:08
Having read many of Phil's posts over time, I question the benefit of this entire forum to him as it doesn't seem to have helped one iota in the what - fourteen years he's been on it?
Having read many of Phil's posts over time, I question the benefit of this entire forum to him as it doesn't seem to have helped one iota in the what - fourteen years he's been on it?
Some people (not specifically Phil) sadly just don't seem to want to be helped at times.
My own mother has almost always been one such person, even several decades before she developed dementia, in the sense that she always seemed to think that she was right (and totally blameless) and everyone else was wrong, including me, unfortunately.
Pamplemousse
19-12-20, 16:57
I mean, I know I can appear ungrateful in my response to others suggesting help in regards to my own issues, but at least I try to address the issues.
Well said, Gary. I've long lost any sympathy I might have had for Phil and am just sick to death of his selfish, self-centred childish whining.
Put up or shut up, Phil. Enough.
People like you affect peoples mental health luckily I can rise above it and don’t need to reply. You can have any opinion you like but doesn’t mean I have to agree.
And yet, you replied. Sorry, Phil, but some things matter more than your right not to have to deal with anything that upsets you, and a lot of your thinly-veiled defences for your own selfishness are going to have an adverse effect on the well-being of others here who may have lost loved ones to Covid.
The vaccination is thirty seconds, twice. Death is permanent. If you don't care about that, you bet your boots I don't care about your right to swan off and play Typhoid Mary.
To be clear, if you'd come here wanting to discuss your needlephobia I'd have had nothing but sympathy - it must be a really tough thing to deal with. Instead, though, you're griping again that the world won't arrange itself around your every whim.
If you want compassion, maybe try showing some. Be the change you want to see in the world.
Phil, I feel sorry in my heart for you because this is no life to be living - for you and for your family.
I probably have a bit more understanding of you than most on here, but maybe it's time to back off with the defence and assess your position? I imagine that reading the above comments can't be easy - especially on a mental health forum - but there are limits and I share people's frustration with you because one major difference between you and I is that I will do whatever it takes to change what's shit in my life - whereas 14 years of the same old same old on here says otherwise with you.
I see some of myself in you with the OCD, and the way you struggle with this world, so I can empathise in a way that most on here won't be able to. My struggle is because I'm autistic, but I also know the world can't change for me so I've had to adapt so that my life is more tolerable. Even though I have little control about what's 'out there', I do have more control over 'me', and when I lose that control through mental illness - I get help and I put in the effort needed to get myself back on track.
Life is work in progress for all of us on here - more so for people like me - because we got the instructions to 'life' but they're in the wrong language lol - but life is what we make of it nether the less.
Instead of always moaning your @rse off about every single thing that's wrong in your life (and with the world) try to do some problem solving so that your world can be a better one, and maybe take some time to read people's comments instead of scanning or ignoring them altogether? People have given some great advice, and it's free! :shrug:
14 years or not, you still get to turn this around because nothing, with the exception of death, is set in stone.
Folk on here have already witnessed one Christmas miracle with a truce between Gary and me, but I think they can handle (and would welcome) another miracle in the form of a positive post from you, and one which is heartfelt- rather than intended to placate.
Phil, I feel sorry in my heart for you because this is no life to be living - for you and for your family.
I probably have a bit more understanding of you than most on here, but maybe it's time to back off with the defence and assess your position? I imagine that reading the above comments can't be easy - especially on a mental health forum - but there are limits and I share people's frustration with you because one major difference between you and I is that I will do whatever it takes to change what's shit in my life - whereas 14 years of the same old same old on here says otherwise with you.
I see some of myself in you with the OCD, and the way you struggle with this world, so I can empathise in a way that most on here won't be able to. My struggle is because I'm autistic, but I also know the world can't change for me so I've had to adapt so that my life is more tolerable. Even though I have little control about what's 'out there', I do have more control over 'me', and when I lose that control through mental illness - I get help and I put in the effort needed to get myself back on track.
Life is work in progress for all of us on here - more so for people like me - because we got the instructions to 'life' but they're in the wrong language lol - but life is what we make of it nether the less.
Instead of always moaning your @rse off about every single thing that's wrong in your life (and with the world) try to do some problem solving so that your world can be a better one, and maybe take some time to read people's comments instead of scanning or ignoring them altogether? People have given some great advice, and it's free! :shrug:
14 years or not, you still get to turn this around because nothing, with the exception of death, is set in stone.
Folk on here have already witnessed one Christmas miracle with a truce between Gary and me, but I think they can handle (and would welcome) another miracle in the form of a positive post from you, and one which is heartfelt- rather than intended to placate.
Some very wise words there, Nora.
You're correct about us people with ASD in the sense that in most cases the world can't change especially for us and that in many cases we have no alternative but to go with the flow.
But at least we don't get punished and treated inhumanely as much nowadays over our 'odd' behaviours (e.g, stimming), unlike in past decades, though that's another story.
You're correct about us people with ASD in the sense that in most cases the world can't change especially for us and that in many cases we have no alternative but to go with the flow.
Fair play Len, we do get half an hour to do our shopping in certain supermarkets on the first Monday of every month. :yesyes:
We have to adapt - as in make adaptions to make life easier - like with other 'disabilities' or go under trying to do it the NT way which just isn't compatible with the autistic brain. :shrug:
But at least we don't get punished and treated inhumanely as much nowadays over our 'odd' behaviours (e.g, stimming), unlike in past decades, though that's another story.
I openly stim when I need to stim and I don't give a shite what people think. People will just have to cope with me gently rocking back and forth, or stroking my furry keyring (not a euphemism) :yesyes:
I also pick my skin and Hubs isn't too happy with that, and I quote - "It bloody well mings!". :shrug:
Fair play Len, we do get half an hour to do our shopping in certain supermarkets on the first Monday of every month. :yesyes:
We have to adapt - as in make adaptions to make life easier - like with other 'disabilities' or go under trying to do it the NT way which just isn't compatible with the autistic brain. :shrug:
I openly stim when I need to stim and I don't give a shite what people think. People will just have to cope with me gently rocking back and forth, or stroking my furry keyring (not a euphemism) :yesyes:
I also pick my skin and Hubs isn't too happy with that, and I quote - "It bloody well mings!". :shrug:
Wel I don't give a monkeys as to what other people think of me either, as that's their problem at the end of the day, even though I generally try my hardest not to draw attention to myself in public by acting in ways others might perceive as 'odd', which is obviously my prerogative.
It's when we end up being bullied and physically assaulted that it becomes problematic, and it's just not worth the aggro most of the time, and in the past I often got told that I probably asked for it, even by my own parents.
Wel I don't give a monkeys as to what other people think of me either, as that's their problem at the end of the day, even though I generally try my hardest not to draw attention to myself in public by acting in ways others might perceive as 'odd', which is obviously my prerogative.
Since I had my nervous breakdown - I don't have the capacity to suppress the urge to stims anymore. I've had to get my head around not caring pretty fast lol
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