Toilet anxiety - heart attack and/or stroke

[Pamplemousse]

Thanks to a conversation I was having with an ex-police colleague the other day, I've now developed a fear of dying on the toilet if I strain in any way - and earlier, I thought I had a pain in my right temple and then eye after I 'went' and it's now freaking me out.

Whilst the bowel urgency I've suffered from for years seems to have passed (the metformin and simply drinking loads being the culprit), this is a new worry for me and I wonder if anyone else has had this fear?

[nomorepanic]

Ok think of it this way - you never had this fear until you spoke to someone who has frightened you to death!

How many people do you know died on a toilet? In fact how many people in the world do you think die on the toilet?

You are overthinking this one and need to forget the conversation as you have never died on the toilet :winks:

[Pamplemousse]

Ok think of it this way - you never had this fear until you spoke to someone who has frightened you to death!

How many people do you know died on a toilet? In fact how many people in the world do you think die on the toilet?

You are overthinking this one and need to forget the conversation as you have never died on the toilet :winks:

I've already Googled it... and I simply cannot forget/"un-learn" things...

[nomorepanic]

That is what you need to work on.

You can't spend the rest of your life now thinking you are going to die when you go to the toilet can you?

[Pamplemousse]

I'd like to think not; but with my mind, who knows..?

[nomorepanic]

Have you thought about getting some help for the HA?

[Pamplemousse]

I have, on many occasions - but I only get offered CBT which really doesn't work for me.

[nomorepanic]

Why not work through the HA self-help course we promote on here then?

[Pamplemousse]

Is it any different, I ask myself?

[Carnation]

Well I found it helpful pamplemousse.
I was in deep rooted agoraphobia and I'm now popping out several times a week even with this pandemic going on.
If you don't mind me saying, you seem to be negative before you start. I know how fear can be debilitating but you've just got to fight it. Don't let the bugger grind you down. :winks:

[nomorepanic]

You won't know until you try and do you not want to try anything to be over this?

[Pamplemousse]

The worry is that after 45 years of this, I'm incurable - it's become as natural as breathing.

I'll have a look - where is it?

[nomorepanic]

Never say never

Look at the sticky threads in this HA forum - there is one about CBT e-books.

[Pamplemousse]

Never say never

Look at the sticky threads in this HA forum - there is one about CBT e-books.

As mentioned though, I've probably had four sessions of CBT in the last ten years and it just hasn't worked.

[nomorepanic]

4 sessions in 10 years ?? Is that all? You should be having at least 6 sessions yearly if you can get it.

I get the impression you don't want to give it a go and at least try so I won't reply further and leave you to it.

Good luck with everything.:yesyes:

[NoraB]

My dear old aunty died on the lav. However, perspective. She had a 60 a day fag habit and had smoked since she was a teenager. She was an alcoholic and anorexic. Her lungs were totally knackered and her heart was failing. Even so, by some voodoo she made it to 66 years of age - which surprised us all - and makes me wonder how old she could have lived to if she had taken a bit more care of herself? Also, she had chronic constipation - which happens when your blood is 40% proof and you live on one Jacob's cracker a day, so yeah it happens. But. I've got to say that' dead before she hit the floor' comforted me because it means my auntie's brain wouldn't have had time to register anything, and, ya know, as deaths go (and we all have to go) I don't think it's a bad way to go myself. :shrug: As long as whoever finds me wipes my arse and pulls my pants back up (and flushes) :ohmy:

Reality is PM that in the unlikely event of you having a cardiac arrest on the loo - you won't know much (if anything) about it.

[NotDeadYet]

As mentioned though, I've probably had four sessions of CBT in the last ten years and it just hasn't worked.

Help clarify this for me. Does 4 sessions mean 4 one-hour discussions with a therapist or 4 sessions that lasted several weeks or months each where you were seeing a therapist regularly during that time?

[Carnation]

I always enjoy reading your posts Nora, but I have to disagree with you on some of your points.
My auntie smoked 60-80 fags a day for near enough 60 years and latterly cut down to about 20.
She eats like a mouse, but downs whiskey, Gin and brandy every day. (Not altogether). She's so thin and fragile that if you blew your nose she'd more than likely fall over.
She is now an incredible 98 years old approaching 99 in the next couple of months.
She also rarely gets ill. Explain that one? Not literally, but in a manner of speaking.

As for death by poo pamplemousse, it is extremely rare and normally would be coupled with a condition of sorts.
I've never heard of anyone dying on the toilet until Nora posted, except for Elvis who was tanked up with medication and a very sick man.

[Pamplemousse]

Help clarify this for me. Does 4 sessions mean 4 one-hour discussions with a therapist or 4 sessions that lasted several weeks or months each where you were seeing a therapist regularly during that time?

Each "session" as I termed them, was six to eight consultations of CBT, usually on a weekly basis with a duration of 30 - 45 minutes each. The last lot was entirely online so it was the latter part of your question.

As I have pointed out - whilst I see the CBT on offer, I doubt its efficacy; Nic's comment of "You should be having at least 6 sessions yearly if you can get it" kind of suggests to me that CBT doesn't really work if it has to be repeated that often. Given the pressures here in my part of the world where mental health provision is already poor makes me feel it'd be better given to people whose lives are really messed up by their mental state.

[Carnation]

Pamplemousse, I think Nic was trying to point out that CBT or therapy sessions need replenishing from time to time when our minds tend to wander into that turmoil of overthinking stuff that sends down that rabbit hole of anxiousness and panic.
Personally I don't think 6-8 sessions are enough or give you long enough to process your trauma.
And it all depends if you can find a therapist that you feel comfortable with, which makes a huge difference.
But the CBT course on NMP is free and very easy to follow.
And of course this NMP Site is support too and we have Nic to thank for that pamplemousse.

[Pamplemousse]

Pamplemousse, I think Nic was trying to point out that CBT or therapy sessions need replenishing from time to time when our minds tend to wander into that turmoil of overthinking stuff that sends down that rabbit hole of anxiousness and panic.

But herein lies the difficulty, Carnation: CBT is supposed to give you the tools to condition your thoughts away from the destructive ones we have. But clearly, if it keeps needing "top-ups" then the basic premise isn't working, would you not agree?

All my CBT to date has been free and on the NHS, I would add.

[Fishmanpa]

CBT is supposed to give you the tools to condition your thoughts away from the destructive ones we have. But clearly, if it keeps needing "top-ups" then the basic premise isn't working, would you not agree?

Personally no, I wouldn't agree. Having used CBT techniques to battle depression and anxiety due to my real life physical illnesses, I found it to be effective only if practiced regularly. I found the techniques not only useful in battling mental issues as they've helped in everyday life situations like work and personal relationships, intimate and otherwise. I equate it to physical therapy. If you don't regularly work out or practice the physical exercises to treat your physical issues, you lose any gains made. The same applies to mental workouts and practices. CBT does give you the tools. But like actual tools, if you don't use them, they can't help you construct the things you're trying to build. I'm with the others on this. It takes constant effort, determination and practice to become proficient. Overcoming anxiety issues or physical issues isn't a quick fix pill like an antibiotic to defeat a bacterial infection. You need to be pro-active and always work at it.

You said your current situation has become "as natural as breathing" and that's the real issue. You need to practice the mental techniques to the point that they become as natural as your current reactions to your perceived symptoms.

Positive thoughts

[Carnation]

Yes, I think fishmanpa has summed it up quite nicely.

[NoraB]

I always enjoy reading your posts Nora, but I have to disagree with you on some of your points.
My auntie smoked 60-80 fags a day for near enough 60 years and latterly cut down to about 20.
She eats like a mouse, but downs whiskey, Gin and brandy every day. (Not altogether). She's so thin and fragile that if you blew your nose she'd more than likely fall over.
She is now an incredible 98 years old approaching 99 in the next couple of months.
She also rarely gets ill. Explain that one? Not literally, but in a manner of speaking.

You've misunderstood me Carnation...

Firstly, you're right in saying that some people can drink, smoke, eat to excess (or not at all) not get ill and live to an old age, but my aunty wasn't one of them. Her lifestyle weakened her lungs which weakened her heart because it had to work so much harder. She was very weak in the end and the exertion of straining on the loo finished her off. That was her story. I'm very happy to know that this hasn't been the case for your aunty.

The point I was making is that a person generally needs to be very ill and very weakened in order to die in this way, but also that I don't see this as a 'bad' way to go. How can it be when it's all over within seconds?

[Carnation]

Thanks Nora, for the clarification.

I didn't want anyone to think that just because they smoke, or have a tipple or two and even underweight that they would automatically pop their clogs while having a number 2. :winks:

[NoraB]

Thanks Nora, for the clarification.

I didn't want anyone to think that just because they smoke, or have a tipple or two and even underweight that they would automatically pop their clogs while having a number 2. :winks:

I hear ya sister. :winks:

That said, the way HA works is that some people will worry about carking it on the loo just because it's been mentioned - as in the OP - and this is even if they've never smoked, drank alcohol, and are of normal weight.

I've ticked all three boxes in my time, but in all honesty, if I was to cark it after (or during) a tricky poo - it would be quite apt as I'm always talking about my bowels and I like 'potty humour' in general. :roflmao:

Or is because I talk a load of shite? :unsure: (I'll get that one in before anybody else does)

[pulisa]

It might be a convenient way for you to go, Nora...

[pulisa]

I hear ya sister. :winks:

That said, the way HA works is that some people will worry about carking it on the loo just because it's been mentioned - as in the OP - and this is even if they've never smoked, drank alcohol, and are of normal weight.

I've ticked all three boxes in my time, but in all honesty, if I was to cark it after (or during) a tricky poo - it would be quite apt as I'm always talking about my bowels and I like 'potty humour' in general. :roflmao:

Or is because I talk a load of shite? :unsure: (I'll get that one in before anybody else does)

I agree about the suggestibility rabbit hole..It's a hard one to manage with HA and those seeds of fear grow easily.

Hope you are feeling a bit more reassured, PM?

[Carnation]

Nora, that's very true! Once an OP posts a heading of concern, it leaves HA sufferers wide open to jump on the band wagon thinking, "oh my, will it happen to me?".
And this is the reason why so many anxiety suffers avoid those threads like the plague.
One person's concern can multiply in it's droves in the matter of minutes. :ohmy:
And most of us that have replied to pamplemousse have suggested that he should seek help for the anxiety in general with CBT and therapy and whatever else he would find beneficial instead of mentally torturing himself everytime he goes to the toilet. :winks:

[Pamplemousse]

I agree about the suggestibility rabbit hole..It's a hard one to manage with HA and those seeds of fear grow easily.

Hope you are feeling a bit more reassured, PM?

Actually, yes - the fear has passed. I'm still doing something hitherto unmentioned and that's obsessing about the colour of my poo. Anything that looks slightly reddish concerns me and I find myself trying to recount everything I've eaten in the last 48 hours and wonder if that has a bearing on it, even considering the actual shade of reddishness.

This started a couple of years ago when my best friend was diagnosed with Stage IV bowel cancer (he's fine now, by the way) and of course, I start thinking "well, if it happened to him, it could happen to me". He does have a family history though.

[NoraB]

It might be a convenient way for you to go, Nora...

:roflmao:

Not so convenient for the poor sod who has to wipe my arse lol