View Full Version : Adverse effects of mindfulness?
LittleLionMan
13-01-21, 11:34
Good morning,
Can someone help me rationalise this please?
It's driving my panic at the moment, and has put me in a really bad way.
I was Googling the benefits of mindfulness last night to try and get my head into doing it again, but was frightened after what it did to me last time, as trying to sit with thoughts, quietly, is what I fully believe has made me so much worse. I came across loads of reports and information that mirrors exactly what has happened to me. The amplification of issues, the intense derealisation, the constant lingering introspection, it's all what has happened to me, exactly, and I still can't get out of my own head to this day. It's like a switch was flicked, and I can't get out of it again.
I'm scared that my efforts to 'sit with thoughts', that I took way too far early last year, under the advice of my therapist then, have permanently damaged my mind.
The links below are just two of the negative assessments of mindfulness, so obviously don't read them if mindfulness helps you.
Thank you.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.pocketcoach.co/blog/main-problems-of-meditating-with-anxiety/amp/
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/jan/23/is-mindfulness-making-us-ill
Mindfulness can't permanently damage the brain.
If it doesn't suit you, don't do it. It's only a lifestyle choice after all, not a toxic assault on the cerebral cortex. It's not mandatory.
I'm mindfully eating two Garibaldi's.. (dead fly biscuits) :yesyes:
Mindfulness is really only slowing down and taking more notice of things.
ankietyjoe
13-01-21, 14:28
"It’s the relaxation technique of choice"
Said the first line of the Guardian article.
That's a fundamental inaccuracy, and if they don't even know what mindfulness is, how can the article have any meaning whatsoever. It's not even remotely a relaxation technique.
Your issue with mindfulness is you, not the mindfulness. It's how you process the thoughts you experience that's the issue.
It's like a switch was flickedYes... for me its hard to turn it off sometimes. There is such a thing as being over hyper aware of your thoughts. Actually, you *could* modify it a bit, and when alone with your thoughts, try being mindful of your surroundings and what keeps you grounded. The goal is to disconnect the emotion(s) from the feelings/symptoms (whats nagging you), not to disconnect from reality totally, or have it turn to derealisation. Yeah, I wouldn't say its a relaxation technique.
LittleLionMan
13-01-21, 17:10
Mindfulness can't permanently damage the brain.
If it doesn't suit you, don't do it. It's only a lifestyle choice after all, not a toxic assault on the cerebral cortex. It's not mandatory.
I meant that my previous efforts had forced me so far into my own head, and made me so aware of the workings, that I'm derealised and 'stuck in my own head' because of it.
My previous therapist had me analysing my thoughts, and stuff, and that's when this derealisation and reality questioning started.
It's like I've opened a door that I can't now close.
LittleLionMan
13-01-21, 17:19
"It’s the relaxation technique of choice"
Said the first line of the Guardian article.
That's a fundamental inaccuracy, and if they don't even know what mindfulness is, how can the article have any meaning whatsoever. It's not even remotely a relaxation technique.
Your issue with mindfulness is you, not the mindfulness. It's how you process the thoughts you experience that's the issue.
It was more the other article to be honest, even I could tell that one had an agenda.
The article that more lightly discusses problems that arise for people with Mindfulness basically lists how my anxiety took a turn for the worst... Increased Self Awareness, Depersonalisation Experiences, Emotional Upheavals and Relaxation as an Anxiety Trigger. If you think over my last 8 months of basically moaning, they are all the things that happened to me after my previous therapist had my doing versions of these techniques. They are also things that I never had a problem with before hand. If I had nothing to do, and could just chill out all day, I could do that and feel great, now I can't without huge anxiety. It just seemed odd seeing the activity I blame for my anxiety getting worse, being linked with exactly what has gone wrong for me.
LittleLionMan
13-01-21, 17:48
Yes... for me its hard to turn it off sometimes. There is such a thing as being over hyper aware of your thoughts. Actually, you *could* modify it a bit, and when alone with your thoughts, try being mindful of your surroundings and what keeps you grounded. The goal is to disconnect the emotion(s) from the feelings/symptoms (whats nagging you), not to disconnect from reality totally, or have it turn to derealisation. Yeah, I wouldn't say its a relaxation technique.
I have been like this now for months, stuck in my own head, derealised, basically trying to find a way back to getting my focus on the outside world again. It's weird, and razing them things just made sense, that I've actually forced myself to be this way, and now I don't know how to do the opposite, almost. If that makes any sense! 🤦*♂️
ankietyjoe
13-01-21, 18:00
Exercise increases my anxiety.
Should I stop exercising, or should I manage my reaction to it?
LittleLionMan
13-01-21, 18:04
Exercise increases my anxiety.
Should I stop exercising, or should I manage my reaction to it?
This isn't a flippant 'reaction' to it, I'm not even doing it anymore, and haven't done for months, it's just how I've been for nearly a year now, and I genuinely think it was that introspection that has caused it. I'm not doing a meditation and thinking "I feel yucky", I did everything my therapist told me to, and now I'm stuck like this. It's more how do I undo it.
I get it, more than you would realize; it makes perfect sense. I sort of feel this way about meditation - I opened/unlocked "The third eye" [perception beyond ordinary sight]. I do recommend the 'Use the 5-4-3-2-1 grounding method to notice your surroundings' to bring things back into focus when one goes too deep into their own mind and get lost with those racing *intrusive* thoughts. Accept your thoughts without judgment, it won't do any good to beat yourself up over them, allow them to pass and don't revisit them. Honestly, sometimes force yourself to break the cycle. I have to go out for a shot walk sometimes to halt my hyper-awareness. I will do just that shortly and think about this more, and hopefully return to you with more advice.
LittleLionMan
13-01-21, 18:08
I get it, more than you would realize; it makes perfect sense. I sort of feel this way about meditation - I opened/unlocked "The third eye" [perception beyond ordinary sight]. I do recommend the 'Use the 5-4-3-2-1 grounding method to notice your surroundings' to bring things back into focus when one goes too deep into their own mind and get lost with those racing *intrusive* thoughts. Accept your thoughts without judgment, it won't do any good to beat yourself up over them, allow them to pass and don't revisit them. Honestly, sometimes force yourself to break the cycle. I have to go out for a shot walk sometimes to halt my hyper-awareness. I will do just that shortly and think about this more, and hopefully return to you with more advice.
That is exactly what I mean! It's like I've seen something that I wish I could unsee. I wish I was blissfully unaware of the workings of my mind like I used to be, but now it's all laid out in front of me, 24/7, and I'm trapped, carefully treading around it's nonsense.
Ok, I can feel your anguish. we're going for a mindset that attracts balance instead of repelling it. You're right, lots of it is (indeed) nonsense - remember that - but don''t fight it. For now.. I'm going to recommend you avoid self talk (for now)...in your current state/frame of mind, it will likely be negative, and while awareness isn't damaging, negative self talk IS. You aren't "trapped" even though it feels that way. You are just stuck in an endless loop. Going to just post this for now as it came to me.
LittleLionMan
13-01-21, 18:49
Thanks, and it's in line with what I've been trying.
The way I see it, is that if you think something is wrong with your breathing / your heart / your swallowing (or my teeth which was a bad one for me!) for example, you can't help but notice everything about them things. I feel that I have done this with my mind, taught myself, inadvertently, to become fixated on it, and now I'm noticing everything it does, meaning I'm trapped in it, so much so, that the real world feels alien to me, hence the derealisation and weird disconnected intrusive thoughts.
I've tried just ignoring it, and just cracking on, and I do get a break sometimes, mostly when I'm running, but it's been so long now, and the focus just isn't shifting. I'm sure if I keep ignoring it, then one day I will forget to worry about it, and the obsession will be broken, it's just been so long now, that I'm becoming less and less sure that will happen.
LittleLionMan
13-01-21, 19:14
This is the other problem, talking about it makes me panic, because it's so hard to get my head around, and I get so confused and frightened about what's happening to me, and what's going to happen to me, that my head gets so muddled that it ends up in panic.
ankietyjoe
13-01-21, 19:37
Maybe just don't meditate.
Then you won't have to partake in another 200 page thread about why you can't do it and you won't have to over analyse it.
LittleLionMan
13-01-21, 19:43
Maybe just don't meditate.
Then you won't have to partake in another 200 page thread about why you can't do it and you won't have to over analyse it.
I'm not going to.
That is exactly what I mean! It's like I've seen something that I wish I could unsee. I wish I was blissfully unaware of the workings of my mind like I used to be, but now it's all laid out in front of me, 24/7, and I'm trapped, carefully treading around it's nonsense.
It's like using Dr Google for HA purposes. You can't unread the "diagnosis" of your symptoms which undoubtedly mean a sinister and terminal illness
...t's just been so long now, that I'm becoming less and less sure that will happen.Well.. the future hasn't happened yet, and we shouldn't try to predict whats ahead. What helps me is to remember...I have control over the here and now - today. That's great to hear you get some relief while running. Agree: For now, avoid meditation, its very powerful, and not done right, it could have a counterproductive result. Try to shift the focus away from whats nagging you, and rob it of its power - you do have it in you to block this and release its hold on you. In turn, give the power to the things that will keep you on track such as your running, as well as other parts of your daily routine. Try (I know - easier said than done) to not dwell on what *seems* wrong and enjoy what is right. Again, from someone like myself dealing with horrific OCD, I understand all too well. PS - sorry for the edits - I"m typing while I think Lol..
ankietyjoe
13-01-21, 20:02
I'm not going to.
Good
I think you need to take yourself off this forum too. I think you need to. You're still going around in circles reporting exactly the same thing, and it's not good for your recovery short or long term. You're saying the same things, and receiving exactly the same advice.
LittleLionMan
13-01-21, 20:10
It's like using Dr Google for HA purposes. You can't unread the "diagnosis" of your symptoms which undoubtedly mean a sinister and terminal illness
I think that's right, and because it's my mind, there's nothing in front of me to take to the doctors or the dentist, I'm just left figuring it out.
LittleLionMan
13-01-21, 20:11
Good
I think you need to take yourself off this forum too. I think you need to. You're still going around in circles reporting exactly the same thing, and it's not good for your recovery short or long term. You're saying the same things, and receiving exactly the same advice.
They advice is 'ignore it' and 'stop posting'.
If it was that simple, I wouldn't be struggling.
LittleLionMan
13-01-21, 20:13
Well.. the future hasn't happened yet, and we shouldn't try to predict whats ahead. What helps me is to remember...I have control over the here and now - today. That's great to hear you get some relief while running. Agree: For now, avoid meditation, its very powerful, and not done right, it could have a counterproductive result. Try to shift the focus away from whats nagging you, and rob it of its power - you do have it in you to block this and release its hold on you. In turn, give the power to the things that will keep you on track such as your running, as well as other parts of your daily routine. Try (I know - easier said than done) to not dwell on what *seems* wrong and enjoy what is right. Again, from someone like myself dealing with horrific OCD, I understand all too well. PS - sorry for the edits - I"m typing while I think Lol..
This is really what my psychologist says... just throw myself into the things in front of me, and try and pick up new interests and hobbies if I can to keep my mind busy. Horrible having to do things purely to stop yourself thinking through, and you can't be busy all the time.
I think you need to take yourself off this forum too. I think you need to. You're still going around in circles reporting exactly the same thing, and it's not good for your recovery short or long term. You're saying the same things, and receiving exactly the same advice.
but now it's all laid out in front of me, 24/7, and I'm trapped
That's it in a nutshell. By documenting everything, you're constantly laying it out in front of yourself, keeping you in the cycle of anxiety. And this thread is just a continuation of your previous thread. It should be merged to show the consistent negative thought and behavior patterns associated with your illness.
I know I'm pissing into the wind here but it's blatantly obvious to everyone other than yourself :shrug:
FMP
LittleLionMan
13-01-21, 21:11
I'm not documenting everything, like I said to you last time. This is in my head 24/7. 60 seconds out of my day is hardly 'documenting'!
This thread was about a very specific question.
I'm not documenting everything, like I said to you last time. This is in my head 24/7. 60 seconds out of my day is hardly 'documenting'!
This thread was about a very specific question.
Ok... :okay:
FMP
ankietyjoe
13-01-21, 23:08
I'm not documenting everything, like I said to you last time. This is in my head 24/7. 60 seconds out of my day is hardly 'documenting'!
This thread was about a very specific question.
It's not. It's you asking exactly the same thing via a slightly different route.
Please at least try and listen to people on here rather than the continuous documenting which you ARE doing.
I think that's right, and because it's my mind, there's nothing in front of me to take to the doctors or the dentist, I'm just left figuring it out.
Would you prefer to have HA? In a way this is just a transference of your HA onto what's "happening" to your brain. You can't see a medical consultant though and aren't able to accept the opinion of a psychological/behavioural consultant so it comes down to chasing a diagnosis like HA
LittleLionMan
14-01-21, 09:08
I'm not really chasing a diagnosis, I'm just confused about what is going on, and am yet to hear of an explanation for it, and ignoring it really is impossible.
I was hoping to run into someone on here who had a similar experience I suppose, as I have to keep it bottled up in the real world, or I sound mental, that's why it was almost nice to be able to throw it out here. I was just hoping to find some clarity on it I suppose, as it is the scariest and most relentless symptom I've had, and I'm not just being dramatic when I say I won't be able to take it much longer.
I've clearly overstayed my welcome here, so will be trying to ease off it, thank you for the help and patience.
PHR x
ankietyjoe
14-01-21, 13:04
I'm not really chasing a diagnosis, I'm just confused about what is going on, and am yet to hear of an explanation for it, and ignoring it really is impossible.
You've had the same explanation, one thousand times.
I was hoping to run into someone on here who had a similar experience I suppose, as I have to keep it bottled up in the real world, or I sound mental, that's why it was almost nice to be able to throw it out here. I was just hoping to find some clarity on it I suppose, as it is the scariest and most relentless symptom I've had, and I'm not just being dramatic when I say I won't be able to take it much longer.
You have, the dozens of people on here who have answered you, one thousand times.
I've clearly overstayed my welcome here, so will be trying to ease off it, thank you for the help and patience.
Don't be a drama queen about this. You haven't outstayed your welcome, you're just not listening to what people are saying to you. You think you are, but you are really, really not. You are addicted to the care you receive, that's why you keep coming back.
In any case, you would do much better NOT being on here, NOT continuing with therapy and just fvcking off to the jungle somewhere to find yourself. Or do some volunteer work or something. Anything to knock you out of your self made prison.
You're NOT uniquely affected but you don't want to acknowledge or accept this because in your mind this is the worst thing ever and every day you are having the worst panic ever. No one else has ever experienced such torture so how could you possibly accept an explanation from people who haven't a clue and are just trying to fob you off with platitudes?
LittleLionMan
14-01-21, 15:21
You've had the same explanation, one thousand times.
You have, the dozens of people on here who have answered you, one thousand times.
Don't be a drama queen about this. You haven't outstayed your welcome, you're just not listening to what people are saying to you. You think you are, but you are really, really not. You are addicted to the care you receive, that's why you keep coming back.
In any case, you would do much better NOT being on here, NOT continuing with therapy and just fvcking off to the jungle somewhere to find yourself. Or do some volunteer work or something. Anything to knock you out of your self made prison.
I mean that has facilitated me in being able to get my head around it, which I can't. I also can't ignore it.
I know that it's me. I'm aware that I'm the problem.
LittleLionMan
14-01-21, 15:28
You're NOT uniquely affected but you don't want to acknowledge or accept this because in your mind this is the worst thing ever and every day you are having the worst panic ever. No one else has ever experienced such torture so how could you possibly accept an explanation from people who haven't a clue and are just trying to fob you off with platitudes?
I don't think I'm worse than anyone else, I've just never seen cognitive symptoms of this nature, described or discussed anywhere. It's not surprising, because I can't describe it properly, so I don't know how I expect anyone else to.
I genuinely appreciate all the help, and it's me that I'm angry and frustrated at, because I can't do things to help myself and even when I think I've done loads of good things, it backfires.
I'm going to leave this, and have a big conversation with my psychologist tomorrow.
ankietyjoe
14-01-21, 16:15
I don't think I'm worse than anyone else, I've just never seen cognitive symptoms of this nature, described or discussed anywhere. It's not surprising, because I can't describe it properly, so I don't know how I expect anyone else to.
I genuinely appreciate all the help, and it's me that I'm angry and frustrated at, because I can't do things to help myself and even when I think I've done loads of good things, it backfires.
I'm going to leave this, and have a big conversation with my psychologist tomorrow.
Your dialogue and response has become very skilled at the verbal roundabout. You have a set number of descriptive terms and responses that you always fall back on.
The reason that this exists is so that you can remain the 'victim' and keep receiving care. I think it's important you acknowledge this.
LittleLionMan
14-01-21, 17:37
That was merely my way of saying thank you, and explaining that my frustrations are with myself, which they 100% are.
The only way I can avoid scrutiny for anything I write, is to pretend like everything is fine, and that it's all going great. Whenever I'm truthful, I'm being a drama queen, feeling sorry for myself, or playing the victim.
There just seems to be this insistence that you're some sort of special case. You're not, you're just like the rest of us, and when we're trying to help it's really tough to get knocked back time after time because there's always an excuse.
Do you like seeing yourself as a "special case"? You do seem to insist on being seen as one. Despite evidence to the contrary on here and from MH professionals.
Maybe you could talk about this with your psychologist tomorrow? She is very easily accessible to you..at your beck and call it seems. Maybe she's part of the "need for care" scenario?
LittleLionMan
14-01-21, 17:54
There just seems to be this insistence that you're some sort of special case. You're not, you're just like the rest of us, and when we're trying to help it's really tough to get knocked back time after time because there's always an excuse.
That really isn't my intention, and I'm sorry if that's how it comes across. Like I've just said, my frustrations are with myself, I don't know why I can't just take the advice and begin recovering. I really don't. It's not like I'm not desperately trying my hardest.
LittleLionMan
14-01-21, 17:55
Do you like seeing yourself as a "special case"? You do seem to insist on being seen as one. Despite evidence to the contrary on here and from MH professionals.
No, of course I don't. I don't want any of this.
No, of course I don't. I don't want any of this.
Think carefully about this statement
LittleLionMan
14-01-21, 18:02
Think carefully about this statement
I don't get it?
I mean I don't want anxiety to be an issue in my life. I don't think any of us do, do we?
I've been participating here for years as have many that respond to you. What we see and you don't (and frankly cannot in your current state) is the pattern of reassurance/attention seeking and not seeing outside the bubble of your own self and your mental illness. There are several members that have the same pattern. Some are better than others in how they manipulate and articulate their words to garner the attention they seek, but essentially they're the same. The negativity you see is due to the frustration of watching you continually shoot yourself in the foot and complain it's hard to walk!
You've gotten some great advice just like the other serial posters have, but these are just words on a screen on an internet forum written by strangers, many of which have gone through what you're going through and much, much worse. The bottom line is it's up to you to take action. The words will do nothing unless you take the initiative and the truth is, one click of the little "x" on your browser and it's back to your reality which obviously scares the crap out of you.
My mother suffered from severe mental illness. To me when I was growing up, I just thought she was weird. She suffered her whole life, was on meds and went to therapy her entire adult life. While she had many periods of relative sanity, it always lurked and it came back in full force at the end of her life along with dementia. My ex suffered from severe depression which manifested into hoarding. My daughter suffers from anxiety and depression but she works her ass off and while she has her moments, she's doing well. Sadly for some, like my mother, their mental illness is terminal so to speak. I personally have dealt with depression and what I called "scanxiety" due to my real health issues. But I recognized it, went to therapy and used meds to overcome it. I still have my moments but I learned how to deal with them. Mental health issues or not, we all struggle with aspects of our lives. It's how we handle them that dictates the outcome. "Life is 10% what happens to us, 90% how we handle it" - Charles Swindoll
There are many, many members that I communicated with through the years. Many have taken on the dragon and moved on with their lives. Some of which I'm still in touch with via social media and are doing well. They have their moments but have learned how to deal with them.
I type all this because unlike many serial posters, you have a self awareness of your situation. Its just that you're seem to be too deep in the rabbit hole and can't reach the edge to pull yourself out at the moment. Many are saying not to post because it's just feeding your dragon (and it is!). I get that it's cathartic to write out your thoughts but perhaps doing so in a private journal as opposed to publicly on the forum/internet would be more productive and healthier mentally, and it would also remove the reassurance and attention seeking aspects which are so detrimental to your recovery.
Again, these are just words on a screen but they come from personal experience. Whether you take them in and act on your own behalf is up to you and remains to be seen.
FMP
LittleLionMan
14-01-21, 19:06
Hi Fish,
I am planning to take a break from here. I also have some other ideas of things that I'm going to attempt (some quite simple, some ludicrous), so it will be interesting to see if things do improve.
The frustrations with myself come from both sides. Where people are frustrated with me because I struggle to implement what I'm being told, I get frustrated and confused, because it seems so simple, but my head turns it into a minefield, and everything seems a far greater deal than I can even explain.
I have to stop playing this game with my own mind I think, and the easiest way is to take my ball home, and leave it to play on its own. Hopefully the lack of back and forth means it gets bored and f*cks off home itself!
Take care, and thanks.
PHR.
Truthfully.. breaks form forums are awesome! Logging in here every day and staying glued to this forum (as I see you're online a lot), this *could* be actually working against you. Enjoy (Yes.. enjoy) the break, and work on yourself - total body - not just re your anxiety. You have to break the cycle. If I stayed here all day; and trust me, I deal with (manage) my own crap, I'd quickly wind up in that cycle, as well. Get outside everyday. Find something to enjoy. Little things count.
Hi Fish,
I am planning to take a break from here. I also have some other ideas of things that I'm going to attempt (some quite simple, some ludicrous), so it will be interesting to see if things do improve.
The frustrations with myself come from both sides. Where people are frustrated with me because I struggle to implement what I'm being told, I get frustrated and confused, because it seems so simple, but my head turns it into a minefield, and everything seems a far greater deal than I can even explain.
I have to stop playing this game with my own mind I think, and the easiest way is to take my ball home, and leave it to play on its own. Hopefully the lack of back and forth means it gets bored and f*cks off home itself!
Take care, and thanks.
PHR.
I hope you are able to take a break from here, Phil. You don't need to keep a diary of your angst. I hope you can enjoy a coffee again without worrying, just for starters. Spontaneity is such a precious life skill to have.
LittleLionMan
14-01-21, 20:25
I hope you are able to take a break from here, Phil. You don't need to keep a diary of your angst. I hope you can enjoy a coffee again without worrying, just for starters. Spontaneity is such a precious life skill to have.
Thank you.
LittleLionMan
14-01-21, 20:25
Truthfully.. breaks form forums are awesome! Logging in here every day and staying glued to this forum (as I see you're online a lot), this *could* be actually working against you. Enjoy (Yes.. enjoy) the break, and work on yourself - total body - not just re your anxiety. You have to break the cycle. If I stayed here all day; and trust me, I deal with (manage) my own crap, I'd quickly wind up in that cycle, as well. Get outside everyday. Find something to enjoy. Little things count.
Hopefully it does me good. Cheers.
Hi PHR,
Just wanted to chime in with some more advice as someone who’s been where you are, although it is a lot like advice already given I’m afraid.
Trying to be mindful didn’t work for me either and I get completely what you’re saying about it taking you further into your own mind.
I was stuck in my own thoughts and feelings for what seemed like forever (was about a year and a half, which in retrospect is a small amount of time). You can check out my post history if you want, you’ll see how messed up my head was. Couldn’t think about anything other than how I was feeling. Had shit loads of therapy (paid for and NHS) and different meds but I don’t know what really helped other than time. Given time, your mind will go back to how it was. You have to trust and believe in yourself.
I would recommend getting off here, I didn’t really start getting better until I stopped posting & reading everything on here. By coming on here, posting and reading, you’re keeping how you’re feeling at the front of your mind and you’ll never get better like that.
Of course, this forum can be great for talking to likeminded people & seeing that you’re not alone with how you’re feeling, I had some great advice that I still remind myself of. However, when you’re as deep in as you are at the moment, and I was, it’s not helpful to keep thinking and writing about how you are feeling.
Do something you enjoy, or used to enjoy. Eventually you’ll find yourself not thinking about how you feel, if only for a small time, and you’ll know your mind is on the way to fixing itself.
It won’t happen overnight pal, but it will happen and you’ll have a new love for life.
I’m sorry I can’t explain it any better, I don’t really know what changed for me to start feeling better. But you’ll get there and eventually be coming back on here trying to put stuff into words to other people, hopefully a bit better than I am lol.
You’ll get there mate, trust and believe in yourself and you’ll be fine.
Take care,
Al
LittleLionMan
15-01-21, 12:43
I think that's what I have to accept. That it's going to take time, pain and patience.
Very reassuring to hear it passed for you though, thanks for that!
Hope you are doing OK.
PHR.
I think your brain needs to understand and accept...as it did when you were battling globus in 2016.
LittleLionMan
15-01-21, 14:16
I have a video that explains globus, and as soon as I understood what it was, it disappeared.
That's exactly why these current symptoms have proven so tricky for me I think, as there is no logical explanation that satisfies my ingrained need for one.
Only abstract replies and responses which your brain can't compute so rejects
LittleLionMan
15-01-21, 14:42
I think so.
Anxiety makes muscles tight, there is a little 'O' muscles in your throat that becomes uncomfortable when it becomes tight. That's perfectly understandable to me.
This is how my mind works, the second I understand something, I'm fine. I wasn't having a go at Joe when I said I hadn't had an explanation, I meant THE explanation, the one that makes me go 'ah, that's what's happening to me!'
THE explanation will not be a concrete one hence the difficulty with acceptance and the rigidity and repetition of questioning.
LittleLionMan
15-01-21, 16:14
Yeah, that's exactly it.
ankietyjoe
15-01-21, 16:52
I think so.
Anxiety makes muscles tight, there is a little 'O' muscles in your throat that becomes uncomfortable when it becomes tight. That's perfectly understandable to me.
This is how my mind works, the second I understand something, I'm fine. I wasn't having a go at Joe when I said I hadn't had an explanation, I meant THE explanation, the one that makes me go 'ah, that's what's happening to me!'
You're asking for an explanation for 1000 things that interact with 1000 other things, at random, in a different way each day.
Stop typing, get out of here, go focus on something else.
There will never be an explanation, which is why we've been screaming the word 'acceptance' at you one billion times.
Get out.
Go.
Yeah, that's exactly it.
Maybe something to take up with your psychologist away from this forum?
LittleLionMan
15-01-21, 18:08
You're asking for an explanation for 1000 things that interact with 1000 other things, at random, in a different way each day.
Stop typing, get out of here, go focus on something else.
There will never be an explanation, which is why we've been screaming the word 'acceptance' at you one billion times.
Get out.
Go.
I'm just saying what has helped eased my anxiety in the past, in response to Pulisa bringing up the throat thing. I am, have been pushing all day... I'm knackered! Haha
LittleLionMan
15-01-21, 18:09
Maybe something to take up with your psychologist away from this forum?
I have done today, went well actually.
Won a load the bookies too, which always helps. Haha.
PHR,
I believe you... and I've had similar reactions to meditation and things that are for whatever reason great for most people, but seem to have counter-reactions for me.
It sounds to me like it's more simple than you think, though. I think Alde (above) did a great job of explaining it. But... in short, you probably were in your own head as it was... and did some meditation and
wound up with a bit of depersonalization that stuck for a while. (As it can) Your brain is OK... it's just looping. I agree completely with Alde... get away from it. Refuse to entertain the topic the best you can.
Accept this is how you are right now... and take charge of your life the best you can. Oddly, being mindful can help us do this... but you'll have to do it using other methods. Simply refusing to entertain the thoughts is a form of
mindfulness. So, there's more than one way to re-write new neural pathways. But you're not going to get an "exact" explanation of how and why this happened down to the neuron... the brain does funky stuff when under
duress. (Panic, DP, obsessive thoughts, etc.) So, this is no different. You got yourself stuck, then fearfully reacted and made it worse. I'm just like you... way too analytical and want answers for everything.
But that's now how this will ease for you. You have to convince your mind it's OK being there... and then... it goes when its ready. Just accept you have some DP based on sensitization, stress, fear and was triggered by
meditating - but could have been triggered by other things too. I have had *exactly what you describe.
So, don't worry if people don't believe you. Meditation is sold as the solution to everyone's problems with no exceptions and that is simply not the case. But... you're not broken, and your brain will stop
going internal if you give it time and mostly... space to do so.
I'm having to do the same thing, and have had to before. It works... just try to be patient. PM me if you need to.
Take care.
ankietyjoe
16-01-21, 12:52
Meditation is sold as the solution to everyone's problems with no exceptions and that is simply not the case.
While this is true in part, meditation still IS a Universal solution, but only once the person suffering has developed the correct attitude towards anxiety. Once you do that, you'll find it's ok to experience because you're meditating, because it's just part of the place you're in right now.
The analogy I'll use it my historical response to exercise. My central nervous system would go haywire at any perceived physical effort because my obsession used to be heart rate. Just because I felt bad during and after exercise, does not make exercise the wrong thing to do for physical and mental wellbeing. It took me several months to relearn how to accept the feelings of exertion.
LittleLionMan
16-01-21, 13:41
Odds are that I've done it, thought too much into it (like I do), got myself all panicky every time, blamed all the thoughts that came up, and decided that my mind is something to be frightened of, and have analysed it to death ever since.
That's the logical explanation, so yes, more me than the practice itself.
I've learnt a lesson today, from overdoing the exercise stuff yesterday. Push, push, push, crash! Need to be just be a bit gentler with myself I think.
I am planning to take a break from here.
FMP
ankietyjoe
16-01-21, 14:22
Odds are that I've done it, thought too much into it (like I do), got myself all panicky every time, blamed all the thoughts that came up, and decided that my mind is something to be frightened of, and have analysed it to death ever since.
That's the logical explanation, so yes, more me than the practice itself.
I've learnt a lesson today, from overdoing the exercise stuff yesterday. Push, push, push, crash! Need to be just be a bit gentler with myself I think.
Observation.
'We' (the NMP Illuminati) take away the option for you to constantly log your fears, and you suddenly have a revelation.
If you're getting off here, go. The way you work, you'll be back to logging again in no time.
LittleLionMan
16-01-21, 14:35
Observation.
'We' (the NMP Illuminati) take away the option for you to constantly log your fears, and you suddenly have a revelation.
If you're getting off here, go. The way you work, you'll be back to logging again in no time.
I didn't have a revelation, that's what I think happened, I just don't know how to stop it or get out if it. I have said that many times.
I'm not logging fears, I'm purely being polite and replying to people who reply to my post. A couple of people who reassuring can actually relate to this problem.
LittleLionMan
16-01-21, 14:37
FMP
Being polite to people who have taken time to write interesting and reassuring replies, and have actually struggled in a very similar way.
Not moaning, not logging, just replying.
Not moaning, not logging, just replying.
Not moaning...
Push, push, push, crash!
Not logging
The fact you're logged on and replying is logging your thoughts publicly. Based on the advice given, I don't think anyone would be insulted if you didn't reply directly to their post. There are several members that behave nearly identically by quoting each reply and responding which keeps the cycle going. Try to rationalize it anyway you want, but the reality is quite different than your perception.
FMP
ankietyjoe
16-01-21, 15:04
I'm not logging fears, I'm purely being polite and replying to people who reply to my post. A couple of people who reassuring can actually relate to this problem.
Every single person here can relate, it's just that most of the people replying to you know that you hearing people relate keeps you coming back for more 'care'.
Why are you still here, responding?
LittleLionMan
16-01-21, 15:27
Not to this particular symptom they can't, and it was very reassuring to hear that people who have struggled in a very similar way, have overcome it in time, and it was nice of them to write such lengthy, helpful, messages. So I wanted to respond to them.
I also don't have to justify taking 2 minutes out of my day to show a little common decency.
ankietyjoe
16-01-21, 15:34
I give up. Good luck.
1st post today - 16-01-21, 08:41 - Latest post - 16-01-21, 10:27
That's a long 2 minutes ;) You're good at this. I'll give you that. They'll always be someone to feed you here so your dragon will never go hungry.
I'm with AJoe...
FMP
LittleLionMan
16-01-21, 15:39
F*ck sake.
I know it might not seem like it, but people are trying to help. Personally, when I'm being irrational I often respond better to a reality enema.
Sorry if this makes you feel worse, but you did say you were taking a break for your mental health and there hasn't been any evidence of this. If you're fine with that, it's all good, but people are inevitably going to notice and comment.
I didn't have a revelation, that's what I think happened, I just don't know how to stop it or get out if it. I have said that many times.
I'm not logging fears, I'm purely being polite and replying to people who reply to my post. A couple of people who reassuring can actually relate to this problem.
"A couple of people"? Do you actually understand how hurtful and insensitive this comment could seem to those whose advice has been tossed aside because they obviously haven't a clue about your torment?
ankietyjoe
16-01-21, 17:52
Quite honestly right now P is coming across as a whiney little man b1tch because his supply has been cut off. He is skilled into manipulating the conversation back to his angst.
I mentioned back in thread number one that a lot of dialogue was about his need for attention. He will deny it until the cows come home, but it is a major factor here. The perceived care will keep fuelling the fire of cyclical self torment because he needs the pain to get the care.
Again, left alone in the wilderness for a few days, he'd feel a lot better.
We need to stop responding to it as much as he needs to walk away from it.
And STILL logged into the site...
Viewing Forum General Anxiety / Generalised anxiety disorder (GAD) (https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?6-General-Anxiety-Generalised-anxiety-disorder-(GAD)) Last Activity 16-01-21 15:41
FMP
I suffer from derelization and have done 24/7 for 5 years.. mediation or mindfulness does not cause derelisation. These thoughts you are having are nothing more than anxious thoughts. I feel like you are hyper focusing on them. My derelizsation has probably lasted as long as it has due to my anxious thoughts however I regularly do mindfulness, meditation etc and if anything it allows me to breathe and relax it doesn’t make worse or change my derelization.
I suffer from derelization and have done 24/7 for 5 years.. mediation or mindfulness does not cause derelisation. These thoughts you are having are nothing more than anxious thoughts. I feel like you are hyper focusing on them. My derelizsation has probably lasted as long as it has due to my anxious thoughts however I regularly do mindfulness, meditation etc and if anything it allows me to breathe and relax it doesn’t make worse or change my derelization.
I know you're just trying to help but it's just dragon food :shrug:
FMP
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