View Full Version : Botulism from incorrectly kept cheese?
Pamplemousse
17-01-21, 14:03
At the moment I'm at my wit's end over this. Last night I decided to cook some halloumi that I've had in a cupboard for something like eight months - the long use-by date made me think I could do this. It was only after opening it and trying a piece did I notice that it should have been kept in the fridge all this time (which I don't have). So I've tried to keep calm, but I'm failing. I know it's very rare in the UK but it has to happen, right?
OK, the obvious question, why no fridge ? I'm actually really surprised you had kept it in a cupboard, as any cheese or dairy product is kept at below 5 degrees. Anyway, that doesn't help you now does it, but .......
Secondly, you ate it last night , I know that botulism can show a while later and doesn't always show in a few hours, but the vast majority of cases are effectively treated anyway, especially if awareness and treatment are done early. Your food poisoning awareness are clearly very high, and I'm sure you'd seek medical attention if there was even the weeniest sign of anything amiss ;) There really is nothing you can do about the tiny piece you tested, but wait it out. You don't mention that it tasted like gone off milk, so it seems very promising that you don't need to worry too much. I'm no food preservation expert, far from it, but I would have thought that if botulism was present in the halloumi to start with, then it would have been recalled anyway as someone , somewhere would have eaten it ?
Pamplemousse
17-01-21, 14:48
My fridge broke 3 years ago and if you saw how I live, you'd know why it hasn't been replaced. The cheese did have a slightly "off milk" smell to it which I initially put down to what it's made from but I'm worried that botulism could have developed in it in the months it's been incorrectly stored? I'm now constantly twitching my face and prodding it to look for nerve damage.
Pamplemousse, you are in the UK, have you tried a request for an old fridge from freecycle or similar ?
I'm afraid I don't know enough about food borne/packaging illnesses to answer your query about that.
Panplemousse, I'm a qualified researcher. Please feel free to let me know your approximate location? There are so many charities offering reconditioned appliances to those in need, I'm sure you'll be in the catchment area for one of them. This is no way for you to live.
Pamplemousse
17-01-21, 15:39
It's not a question of being unable to afford one - the house is so untidy it's probably unfit for habitation and there's no room for one.
But I live alone so only I have to put up with it.
You really need to take better care of yourself.
Pamplemousse
17-01-21, 15:50
I know that... but in my current frame of mind I am wondering why I bother continuing living. Sometimes I think it would be a blessing if it ended, yet I'm terrified of death.
You don't really want to die, PM otherwise you wouldn't be worried about botulism. It would be an "honourable way out".
Get a fridge though? It's essential and there will be space for a small one. You deserve to have one and it will be an investment and help you to store healthier foods.
Yep, no more worrying about storage of foods and fears of botulism :)
Hi , I don’t want to make light of your situation because I know what it’s like once the worry seed starts to grow , but if your house is a bit of a mess and it’s how you live you’ve probably built up a good immunity to most bugs that would kill your average clean freak , I’m terrible for eating out of date food or food that’s not cooked properly partly down to my failing eyesight and no sense or smell or taste , I basically have no idea what I’m eating yet my partner who sticks to all the rules with food hygiene recently got food poisoning from the same food I’d eaten, I’m sure you’ll be ok but if you feel ill ring 111 for advice , I would get a fridge though , you’re not alone in how you live I know several people who are hoarders and one his cooker broke over ten years ago and it’s still stood there with a chip pan and kettle gathering dust , it’s hard to make change but maybe this is a shove to do something and have one less worry .
I basically have no idea what I’m eating yet my partner who sticks to all the rules with food hygiene recently got food poisoning from the same food I’d eaten
Wow, Buster. You have a stomach of steel!
PM - from what I'm reading the botulism bacteria is extremely rare in cheese. Much more likely to be found in meat or fish products.
Also here - Clostridium botulinum is ubiquitous in soil and marine sediments.
OK I'm a keen gardener. In the growing season I'm always getting my hands dirty through garden soil plus my homemade compost. And I will confess I've had the odd sandwich sitting in the greenhouse without washing my hands. So I'm probably at way more risk of ingesting the relevant bacteria than you are, yet I'm still here.
Hi , I don’t want to make light of your situation because I know what it’s like once the worry seed starts to grow , but if your house is a bit of a mess and it’s how you live you’ve probably built up a good immunity to most bugs that would kill your average clean freak , I’m terrible for eating out of date food or food that’s not cooked properly partly down to my failing eyesight and no sense or smell or taste , I basically have no idea what I’m eating yet my partner who sticks to all the rules with food hygiene recently got food poisoning from the same food I’d eaten, I’m sure you’ll be ok but if you feel ill ring 111 for advice , I would get a fridge though , you’re not alone in how you live I know several people who are hoarders and one his cooker broke over ten years ago and it’s still stood there with a chip pan and kettle gathering dust , it’s hard to make change but maybe this is a shove to do something and have one less worry .You're full of good advice lately Buster!! Very true about the immunity.
Pamplemousse
17-01-21, 20:52
Hi , I don’t want to make light of your situation because I know what it’s like once the worry seed starts to grow , but if your house is a bit of a mess and it’s how you live you’ve probably built up a good immunity to most bugs that would kill your average clean freak , I’m terrible for eating out of date food or food that’s not cooked properly partly down to my failing eyesight and no sense or smell or taste , I basically have no idea what I’m eating yet my partner who sticks to all the rules with food hygiene recently got food poisoning from the same food I’d eaten, I’m sure you’ll be ok but if you feel ill ring 111 for advice , I would get a fridge though , you’re not alone in how you live I know several people who are hoarders and one his cooker broke over ten years ago and it’s still stood there with a chip pan and kettle gathering dust , it’s hard to make change but maybe this is a shove to do something and have one less worry .
Did anyone here ever watch How Clean Is Your House ? It's rather like that here.
The biggest barrier to me doing anything is, as ever, my depression. Which is beginning to sound more and more like an excuse than a reason, I know.
It's 24 hours now; can't tell if my eyesight is blurred (it's pretty crap anyway) but my eyelids are still open and I can still speak clearly so that's probably a good sign.
Pamplemousse
17-01-21, 21:15
You're full of good advice lately Buster!!
Isn't it a joy to see someone giving as well as receiving on this forum - unlike one or two I could mention... :mad:
Did anyone here ever watch How Clean Is Your House ? It's rather like that here.
That's like the Hoarders series here in the States. Dude... I'm so sorry to hear this. I left my ex due to her depression and hoarding. I have photos I took in case she resisted the divorce and custody demands. It was awful! I went and basically got rid of everything over a period of several months after I left. I had to do it when she wasn't home as to not have her melt down. It's been 20 years and while she still has those tendencies, she sought help and does much better. For your own safety and health, look into professional help in getting things cleaned up.
Positive thoughts
Pamplemousse
17-01-21, 22:03
That's like the Hoarders series here in the States. Dude... I'm so sorry to hear this. I left my ex due to her depression and hoarding. I have photos I took in case she resisted the divorce and custody demands. It was awful! I went and basically got rid of everything over a period of several months after I left. I had to do it when she wasn't home as to not have her melt down. It's been 20 years and while she still has those tendencies, she sought help and does much better. For your own safety and health, look into professional help in getting things cleaned up.
Positive thoughts
It's not just hoarding, FMP - but a genuine "don't care" attitude. The kitchen floor and counters are deep with rubbish and recycling I simply cannot be bothered to deal with. I wade through it. Hell, I've not even had a wash since Christmas Day. On a lesser note, I've not washed the car since 2019.
It's not just hoarding, FMP - but a genuine "don't care" attitude. The kitchen floor and counters are deep with rubbish and recycling I simply cannot be bothered to deal with. I wade through it. Hell, I've not even had a wash since Christmas Day. On a lesser note, I've not washed the car since 2019.
My ex suffered from severe depression that led to the hoarding. I did all the cooking and cleaning but things got out of hand which led to me leaving and the divorce. Once I got rid of the clutter, I did the deep cleaning and organizing etc. part of the divorce agreement was it had to remain clean and organized and I was allowed to go in, help and make sure things were Ok for the kids. There is help out there. You just need to reach out.
Positive thoughts
There is lots of help put there. Lots of good people who would be happy to help, and no shame attached to any of it.
And talking about it is a good way to start finding your way through.
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Pamplemousse
17-01-21, 23:00
I feel a little better with the kind words here - I might even dare to try and sleep tonight.
:hugs:I’m sure your late wife would have wanted you to be happy and take care of yourself, PM, no matter what that entails.
Worrywart84
18-01-21, 00:56
Hi! I just read through your thread and I’m so sorry you are dealing with both anxiety and depression. I hope you can get the help you need to have a better life. I always find that my mood is highly influenced by my environment so when everything is clean and tidy I am much happier and calmer than when things are in complete disarray. I know it may feel overwhelming but maybe consider doing little small things to start cleaning up and see how you feel. It can be a mood changer and motivate you to keep going.
MyNameIsTerry
18-01-21, 07:29
It's a hard cheese with a high salt content (good for stopping microbial growth) and a low risk cheese for pathogens. Soft cheese is always the biggest risk although I've eaten plenty of Quark up to 2 weeks after the date (refrigerated) and yoghurt weeks past it's date and even a week at room temperature.
My experience is you would know. In a soft cheese it will become more & more acidic to the point of vile. Aside from the mould floating on the top. With hard cheese you can see the mould on the outside and smell/taste will be off.
Isn't there 2 main strains and both can be cooked off over certain temperatures?
The initial making of the cheese also helps dictate how it will be affected. The long date sounds well in your favour (months is good for cheese) and they will have packed it to deliver that date. So if it has been sealed all this time and just because no fridge doesn't mean the temperature is high enough (cool pantry?) so whilst not ideal might not be as bad as you think?
The anxiety ape will go mad over it being 3 seconds out of date. So try to keep perspective and see how you feel later.
It's not a question of being unable to afford one - the house is so untidy it's probably unfit for habitation and there's no room for one.
But I live alone so only I have to put up with it.
Is this by choice PM? Or is a case of things have just got out of hand? Because you can get help you know? X
There IS a point, PM..even when you think there isn't. We all support you on here, you as a person and not for the state of your home. Your home is a manifestation of your distress but mess can be fixed.Your mental health is more important than clutter any day x
There IS a point, PM..even when you think there isn't. We all support you on here, you as a person and not for the state of your home. Your home is a manifestation of your distress but mess can be fixed.Your mental health is more important than clutter any day x
That’s such a lovely thing to say.
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Your mental health is more important than clutter any day x
I've watched load of those house cleaning programmes where the person cried with relief when it was all cleaned up and their mental health improved no end.
Hubs' flat was like that when I first met him. He wasn't depressed or owt - he was just (is) a lazy bugger! :lac:
Nora got to work and blitzed the place in one day and the resident mouse, and escaped tarantula food (crickets) were re-housed. :yesyes:
For me, I can't function in clutter and dirt. My brain won't have it. Then again, my cleaning has strayed into the OCD zone historically. Can't do that now, but I still keep on top of things and have the number of a cleaner should things deteriorate.:scared15:
PM: I'm so sorry you're struggling this much. I had no idea. You need some help mate. I honestly think that your mental health would improve a lot with improvement to your environment, and you can get help with that. Once your gaff is gleaming, and a pleasant place to be, this will provide incentive to keep it that way, and then you will want to get into the bath or shower because it's clean.
First thing I'd do is to speak to your GP. Explain the situation and that you need some help with the depression and with your house. He/she should be able to help you with the mental health issue and at least point you in the right direction to getting help with cleaning the house if you can't afford to pay someone to come in and do it.
As P says, we're all here for you. X
Pamplemousse
18-01-21, 13:14
I really don't feel I deserve the kind things people are saying here.
I've always been an untidy sod, right back to my childhood but it got so much worse about six years ago. Originally it was just hiding the empty spaces where Mrs. PM was, but now it has truly become overwhelming, hence my taking the easy option of not dealing with it. The big problem is that I don't cope well with people around me and especially when it's in my own house - I feel like I'm being invaded. When I work I'm mostly left alone to my own devices and that suits me just fine, my interactions with people are always minimal: "tell me what's wrong with it - not what you think is wrong with it - and I'll take it from there" is a standard response - which on the face of it sounds a bit abrupt but I have wasted too much of my time in the past dealing with people who prove the adage "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing".
It sounds as though things have got beyond the point where you can manage yourself, though. Could you get some cleaners in and bugger off to a hotel for a couple of days while they sort it out?
Pamplemousse
18-01-21, 13:26
It sounds as though things have got beyond the point where you can manage yourself, though. Could you get some cleaners in and bugger off to a hotel for a couple of days while they sort it out?
The last time that happened I lost some very rare documents which had got in amongst the mess. I'm keen to not repeat that, obviously but right now - as an example - two things are occupying my mind:
Where have the brass wire brushes for my Dremel gone?
What have I done with the amber light bulbs I bought for the electric fire that keeps me warm?
It's not unknown for me to lose something, get frustrated at my inability to find it and just purchase a new one. I did that last week with my cordless mouse and literally, ten minutes after I ordered the new mouse I found the original one. I really should send that back, except the PO has closed.
I should add there's no heating/hot water here either; the system sprang a leak and after being told I'd have to wait weeks for a plumber, I decided I'd fix it myself and do a modification whilst I'm at it.
That'll be three years ago next month.
I really don't feel I deserve the kind things people are saying here.
Yes you do.
I've always been an untidy sod, right back to my childhood but it got so much worse about six years ago.
I fully expect my husband to go back to his old ways should anything happen to me. I fully intend to haunt him back into action, but have left the number of a cleaning lady in the letter rack - just in case. :winks:
Originally it was just hiding the empty spaces where Mrs. PM was, but now it has truly become overwhelming, hence my taking the easy option of not dealing with it.
It doesn't take long for housework to become overwhelming. This is a conversation I keep having with my autistic son. I tell him, 'Do a little bit every day, and it won't overwhelm you'. The biggest problem for you at the moment is getting your house in a more habitable condition without it causing you too much distress because any change, even a positive one, can be hard to deal with. I'm autistic, I should know!
The big problem is that I don't cope well with people around me and especially when it's in my own house.
So, having a cleaner come in would be an issue for you?
How about if they came in while you are work? That way, you wouldn't have to interact with them and your house would be clean.
Nora's right, and I say this as a huge slob who avoids cleaning like the plague. Things have gone too far, and you need to remedy them even if it takes you outside your comfort zone.
Are you happy to live like this though? Would the prospect of any change be just too much to bear? Obviously covid complicates things hugely but do you really want people messing around in your house and "taking over" when you have tried to manage on your own and have your own system?
Pamplemousse
18-01-21, 14:40
Are you happy to live like this though? Would the prospect of any change be just too much to bear? Obviously covid complicates things hugely but do you really want people messing around in your house and "taking over" when you have tried to manage on your own and have your own system?
That is a question that, right now, I can't answer...
You don't have to answer it now, PM. I appreciate that you are a proud and independent man and rightly so. It's very hard to let others interfere in your life.
The last time that happened I lost some very rare documents which had got in amongst the mess. I'm keen to not repeat that, obviously but right now - as an example - two things are occupying my mind:
Where have the brass wire brushes for my Dremel gone?
What have I done with the amber light bulbs I bought for the electric fire that keeps me warm?
It's not unknown for me to lose something, get frustrated at my inability to find it and just purchase a new one. I did that last week with my cordless mouse and literally, ten minutes after I ordered the new mouse I found the original one. I really should send that back, except the PO has closed.
I should add there's no heating/hot water here either; the system sprang a leak and after being told I'd have to wait weeks for a plumber, I decided I'd fix it myself and do a modification whilst I'm at it.
That'll be three years ago next month.PM - I see a lot of myself in you. And very often I think 'there but for the grace of G-d' (Vee got me onto the spelling), go I'. We're a similar age but the main difference is I still have my wife. And that's where my heart goes out to you, because I could easily be in your shoes.
Depression and anxiety chip away at motivation as we all know, so I can appreciate just how easily it would be to find myself in your situation. Tidying and housework require a future mindset that we shy away from when we are down and apprehensive, we just want to hide and forget about the world. But the ladies here are quite right and I won't attempt to try and improve on what they've already said, because I wouldn't be able to. Hang in there buddy, you're a top-notch bloke and deserving of some attention.
I can relate to your situation, PM. I struggled with depression off and on over the last 10 years, more on than off. I also own a fixer upper house, which is a bad combination with depression! Add in being a bit sentimental about stuff, and I had way, way too much stuff, most of it extremely dusty. Plus with the fixer-upper house, I have no working stove and hot water only when the water heater feels like it, which it usually doesn't. After a while the environment drags you down, and takes your self-esteem along.
It's been hard for me to dig out of the hole I got myself into, because it's so embarrassing to let people into the house to help. It's taken me a lot of donating and recycling to get things to the point where the place is somewhat livable, and there's still more to do. Ironically, dirt gives me huge anxiety which makes me not want to clean (yes, I know that makes no sense). But what I found helped was to take one small area - I seriously started with one corner just big enough to hold my guitar - and completely decluttered it and cleaned it. Then I kept expanding that little bit of clean space, bit by bit, until it was my entire bedroom. I've finally gotten to the point where I can let people in to work on the house, although I still have to make excuses for the boxes in the living room and dining room. Hey, it's a remodel, so stuff is boxed up, right?
I hope I'm not coming off as a know-it-all here (because I am one :D in real life), I just want to say that you're not alone and it can be done.
Pamplemousse
20-01-21, 18:07
I remain touched by the kindness of people on here :)
Sadly, today I had to resort to 111; I had a nasty attack of vertigo as I was turning over in bed. Although not listed on the NHS site, according to the WHO it can be an early symptom. That, along with my arms feeling a bit weak and crappy for a while yesterday and I went into a tailspin. Thanks, Dr. Google!
The lady I spoke to was really, really lovely: basically from her questions the botulism fear didn't enter in to it - and if you have it, you know you've got it, it would seem. We even managed to have a bit of a laugh and a giggle as well. I think she was thinking more along the lines of a stroke but I know from FAST that it isn't, but the neck and slight pain behind my ear are now saying "cervical vertigo" - which I know I have.
Well reasoned, PM. Glad you could have a bit of a laugh with the 111 lady. Probably did you the world of good?!
Pamplemousse
20-01-21, 19:42
Well reasoned, PM. Glad you could have a bit of a laugh with the 111 lady. Probably did you the world of good?!
It did, actually.
And reading something you posted elsewhere, I took my car for a repair and its MoT today. I did freak slightly as one of the mechanics bent over and coughed and said "I'd stay back if I were you!" so I did.
"Passed with defects" was nice, but what came afterwards was nicer still.
Whilst I was waiting for the card machine to process my payment, I remarked to the garage owner how the crackling sound of welding took me back to my childhood: my dad did a lot of welding as part of his work and he often made things like lamp standards, wrought iron furniture, trailers for the cars, even large numeral-sized cake tins for my little sister's birthday! I also lamented that I never asked him to teach me how to do it.
Didn't expect what came next...
"Well, I can teach you if you like?"
I'm going to hold him to that - when the Covid situation has subsided a bit. I have a classic car that needs welding...
That's great, PM! You've made a new friend AND got your car sorted!
You'll laugh now...My car is in self-isolation at the garage because the car needs a new part and whilst waiting for it a mechanic has tested positive and the whole garage has had to shut down...Ay caramba!:D No idea when I will get it back and how "infected" it will be..Can cars transmit covid? Seeing as paw paw fruit can, who knows? Fuel for thought?
Pamplemousse
22-01-21, 18:25
Hope you've got your car back, Pulisa!
Little update. I wanted some sleeping tablets to help block things out so I did an e-consult for my GP practice.
The follow-up consultation via phone today turned into be a full review of my ongoing problems - the depression/anxiety, diabetes, hypertension.
A whole new action plan for my future health has been formulated - fresh-faced young doctor fancying a challenge by the sound of it. He also said that if I have botulism, I must have the strongest immune system known to man... hope he's right.
I had this weird, giddy feeling earlier.
I think it's called... optimism?
Blimey! What is optimism? Whatever it is it sounds great and a wonderful prescription!
Grab these fresh faced young doctors before they have become totally disillusioned and pill push the minute you open your mouth!
Delighted for you..Getting the right doc and a new approach is just what you need! You might even have moved up the list for the vaccine as a result!
Pamplemousse
22-01-21, 20:06
Blimey! What is optimism? Whatever it is it sounds great and a wonderful prescription!
Grab these fresh faced young doctors before they have become totally disillusioned and pill push the minute you open your mouth!
Delighted for you..Getting the right doc and a new approach is just what you need! You might even have moved up the list for the vaccine as a result!
Well, in all of this, as he looked at my medicines he said one of the blood pressure ones I'm on is known for driving blood sugar levels up... at the moment, I'm happy where I am in the vaccination queue as I'm sure there are many more people deserving of it out there. I have heard though of someone resident near me who's been told they have to travel 50 miles to a different county to get jabbed!
It's always good to have another doc review your meds because an enthusiastic young medic will always spot anomalies and be keen to suggest an alternative.
As for jab hubs, 50 miles is a hell of a journey..Is he/she going to take up the offer?
Pamplemousse
22-01-21, 22:04
It's always good to have another doc review your meds because an enthusiastic young medic will always spot anomalies and be keen to suggest an alternative.
As for jab hubs, 50 miles is a hell of a journey..Is he/she going to take up the offer?
I'm a great believer in that approach to medicines - too often doctors just add another tablet and don't look at the whole picture. My mother just had tablet upon tablet added to her in later life and sadly, the last place they did a full review was the hospice she died in.
As far as I know, the person concerned is making that journey...
That's good news PM, hopefully it will be the start of something better. Your Mum's medicine regime sounds like Mrs F's, there's tablets she takes that she's been on for donkey's years. All supposedly necessary but you wonder what's causing what. Is it the illness? The meds? Both? Neither?
Pamplemousse
22-01-21, 22:51
That's good news PM, hopefully it will be the start of something better. Your Mum's medicine regime sounds like Mrs F's, there's tablets she takes that she's been on for donkey's years. All supposedly necessary but you wonder what's causing what. Is it the illness? The meds? Both? Neither?
I used to think that about Mum too.
I *may* be coming off the Citalopram: I said I'm not sure it's actually working for me any more and considering I've been on it for over a decade, maybe the time has either come for a change or to stop. Not in eight weeks though, like the last time I tried.
That, did not end well.
Little update. I wanted some sleeping tablets to help block things out so I did an e-consult for my GP practice.
The follow-up consultation via phone today turned into be a full review of my ongoing problems - the depression/anxiety, diabetes, hypertension.
A whole new action plan for my future health has been formulated - fresh-faced young doctor fancying a challenge by the sound of it. He also said that if I have botulism, I must have the strongest immune system known to man... hope he's right.
I had this weird, giddy feeling earlier.
I think it's called... optimism?
Love, love LOVE this post PM!! :yahoo:
You go and get em mate!
I know what you mean about new doctors. I had one who was very young looking when I first saw him. Five years of me and he looked 110! :roflmao:
Pamplemousse
23-01-21, 11:37
It'll be nice if this lasts Nora, but on past record I give it a day :weep:
It'll be nice if this lasts Nora, but on past record I give it a day :weep:
Any positivity/optimism is good PM.
Just remember how it feels and know that you will feel this way again - even if you go back a few steps..
WiredIncorrectly
24-01-21, 10:40
Hey Pamplemousse,
I was saying to Joe yesterday that I don't fear death, yet I fear I'm going to die walking up a bloody hill! You most definitely don't want to die and you've got a good support network here.
I sympathize with your situation. Do you have hoarding problem, or is the stuff in your house mess? You can most definitely improve your situation and we're here to help you. We might all bicker in Misc, but you sound like you need some help and support.
I can get you a fridge, that's not a problem. But you say there is no space so lets deal with that first. Tell me more about your home condition.
Can you post some pictures privately? I won't judge you, I want to help. My own house is in a limbo state. It's stripped for decorating but had no desire to finish it right now. With a kid in the house it gets messy every single day. It's hard to keep on top of sometimes. You can feel free to discuss in private.
:bighug1:
Pamplemousse
24-01-21, 12:25
It's both - hoarding from my hobbies and just a lack of care in myself and my surroundings. You're corresponding with someone who hasn't washed, bathed, shaved or changed his clothes for a month now. I just don't see the point and to add insult to injury, I seemed to have gained five pounds in weight this week - so much for my "diet". So I've come crashing back to Earth again. I said optimism doesn't last long here: better to be a pessimist, then you don't have to fall so far when things inevitably go wrong. But I'm very unhappy at that news, I can tell you.
As for a fridge - money's not the issue, I could order and pay for one today: it's just the logistics of getting access to get the old one out and get the new one in. Heavens, I nearly stuffed one left out for recycling near the garage I took my car to into its boot the other day! As for pictures, do you mind if I don't post any, even privately? I'm one of that increasingly rare breed of people these days: one that feels shame.
And now if you'll forgive me, I have a lot of self-pity to indulge in. I knew this wouldn't last, and I was right.
Ahh PM. After the highs often come the lows. It doesn’t mean it’ll last, take each day at a time.
I’ve seen some amazing people on Instagram who help people whose circumstances have got on top of them. No questions asked and no judgement. I understand the shame PM I really do, I’m terrible at motivating myself to sort out my mess.
Your new GP sounds great, are you going to share any of these things with her? One step at a time?
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Pamplemousse
24-01-21, 13:25
Ahh PM. After the highs often come the lows. It doesn’t mean it’ll last, take each day at a time.
I’ve seen some amazing people on Instagram who help people whose circumstances have got on top of them. No questions asked and no judgement. I understand the shame PM I really do, I’m terrible at motivating myself to sort out my mess.
Your new GP sounds great, are you going to share any of these things with her? One step at a time?
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It's a him this time. At the moment I'm at a real low again and feeling like I should just go back to bed.
I feel defeated.
WiredIncorrectly
24-01-21, 13:34
I hear you PM. My own home isn't in the best state. It's in limbo, I stripped the house to start decorating and then lost the drive to decorate it. It gets done, but very slowly, and in the process the house looks god awful. The washing up needs doing, I need to get the hoover out, and the mop. Our stairs are stripped bare, so it's just wood, but my lad keeps walking up and down them with shoes on, and is constantly spilling his drinks on the way to his room. Having two dogs that constantly stink regardless of how many baths you give them makes my home smell like a kennel.
I don't invite people over much. If I do invite somebody over I go into OCD mode for 24 hours where the whole house is bleached from top to bottom. I'll sit scrubbing the stairs with a sponge, and then sanding over them to make them look good again. I've got all the stuff to varnish and paint the stairs but until my son sorts his messiness out I kind of refuse to do them. They'll get trashed.
I don't know how others live, but my misses says a messy house is one that's lived in. My moms house on the other hand is like a show home. Every time she visits it's like The Queen is coming :roflmao: ... she'd hit the roof if she seen my house right this second. When she comes ALL the Yankee Candles come out.
My Dad was very much like you, except his hobby was motorcycles so his home was like a garage. Oil everywhere. He wasn't the cleanest in the kitchen either. As a kid I was always cleaning the stairs, because we had bare stairs growing up and I always had to clean and paint them because nobody else would. I'd regularly go into OCD mode and clean our home because my mental health went downhill living in such conditions.
There's a point I hit where I will have to clean because things have gone a bit too far. Like the mountain of washing up I have to do today. Try getting a kid to use 1 plate, 1 bowl and 1 cup ... bloody useless. He'll use everything that's clean and shove the rest on the side for us to clean up.
But a lot of the times I too feel too lazy.
Do you think your mental health condition/s is causing you to have no desires? No need to feel bad about it, I've let myself and my home get into all sorts of states.
5283
My doc agrees with Garfield here. She says in the first months of weight loss, don't even use the scales. Determine your weight loss by how your clothes fit and how healthy you feel because the numbers on the scales vary from day to day (especially due to water weight and bloating) that it can really screw with your head if you're weighing yourself every day.
It's a him this time. At the moment I'm at a real low again and feeling like I should just go back to bed.
I feel defeated.
Some jobs are just too big to try and tackle on our own and the help is there - we just need to be able to want things to change and to ask for help.
Some people are happy to exist as you are, but that's clearly not the case with you. You're not happy. I think you want out of your situation but it's so overwhelming that it's easier to stay as you are?
Would you be more motivated to bathe if your bathroom was clean? Or wouldn't that make any difference?
How much of an effort did you make when your Mrs was alive? Did she have to prompt you? I'm trying to work out how much of this is down to depressive inertia, and how much is actually 'you'. What I mean is that my husband isn't depressed in any way - he's just a lazy bugger. I have to prompt him to spray his pits, do his teeth etc. I know he wouldn't bother if I wasn't here to encourage him in my subtle way..
Go spray ya manky pits! :emot-prettywink:
I think you need to like and love yourself PM - starting as you are.
People think that they can't do this until life is perfect, but that's not how this works. We need to show ourselves some love when we are at our lowest..
Before you write me off as some kind of purple wearing positivity ponce who hasn't experienced any real shite in her life - I'm far from it. I've experienced stuff that I can't talk about on here, or anywhere else - and my shit started when I was 5. I've been as low as it gets and still be alive, but I got back up again and that's the bottom line. No matter what life throws at me at will keep getting up because I'm worth it, and you need to see your worth PM. X
Pamplemousse
25-01-21, 14:16
Some jobs are just too big to try and tackle on our own and the help is there - we just need to be able to want things to change and to ask for help.
Some people are happy to exist as you are, but that's clearly not the case with you. You're not happy. I think you want out of your situation but it's so overwhelming that it's easier to stay as you are?
The latter.
Would you be more motivated to bathe if your bathroom was clean? Or wouldn't that make any difference?
Hot water would make a difference, rather than dragging a kettle up the stairs, boiling water and filling the sink then pouring it over me. But cleaning just isn't in my genetics.
How much of an effort did you make when your Mrs was alive? Did she have to prompt you? I'm trying to work out how much of this is down to depressive inertia, and how much is actually 'you'. What I mean is that my husband isn't depressed in any way - he's just a lazy bugger. I have to prompt him to spray his pits, do his teeth etc. I know he wouldn't bother if I wasn't here to encourage him in my subtle way..
I've always been like this, if I'm honest, but I have got a lot worse this last few months (and before anyone goes on about it, it's got sod-all to do with Covid or lockdown, okay?). Truthfully, I only got showered/bathed when Mrs. PM was alive because I had to go to work. I used to work with a couple of people whom you were well advised to stand upwind of; one was an alcoholic, the other was dealing badly with a failed relationship. And yes, she would prompt me.
I think you need to like and love yourself PM - starting as you are.
People think that they can't do this until life is perfect, but that's not how this works. We need to show ourselves some love when we are at our lowest..
There are things in my past I don't share on here that certainly stop me from this.
Before you write me off as some kind of purple wearing positivity ponce who hasn't experienced any real shite in her life - I'm far from it. I've experienced stuff that I can't talk about on here, or anywhere else - and my shit started when I was 5. I've been as low as it gets and still be alive, but I got back up again and that's the bottom line. No matter what life throws at me at will keep getting up because I'm worth it, and you need to see your worth PM. X
I know from reading many of your posts that, unlike a few on here, you're in no way "some kind of purple wearing positivity ponce" (funnily enough, as a child my favourite shirt was purple) and clearly there's some back story to you. Similarly, there's stuff I've dealt with that I don't want to talk about.
No one on here wants to invade your privacy, PM. You say what you want to say. It's just good to have you as part of the NMP community.
Pamplemousse
25-01-21, 14:56
No one on here wants to invade your privacy, PM. You say what you want to say. It's just good to have you as part of the NMP community.
Thanks, P and NoraB :hugs:
Pamplemousse
25-01-21, 17:50
My hands are freezing. But that's what you get for only having cold water to clean the bathroom window sill and sink with, I suppose.
It does look a bit better now.
I was thinking about you this morning PM as I walked Lexie, with it being very cold and wondering how you're managing with no heating.
No one on here wants to invade your privacy, PM. You say what you want to say. It's just good to have you as part of the NMP community.I'll second this.
My hands are freezing. But that's what you get for only having cold water to clean the bathroom window sill and sink with, I suppose.
It does look a bit better now.
Well done for doing that PM.
It’s good to write down your achievements. Do you feel up to making yourself a little list of things you could attempt tomorrow?
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Pamplemousse
25-01-21, 19:26
I was thinking about you this morning PM as I walked Lexie, with it being very cold and wondering how you're managing with no heating.
Search for "Belling Champion Heater" and you'll find out how :)
Pamplemousse
25-01-21, 19:27
Well done for doing that PM.
It’s good to write down your achievements. Do you feel up to making yourself a little list of things you could attempt tomorrow?
In a couple of words - "not yet".
Well that’s ok. I love writing lists, I rarely finish the stuff that’s on them though!
The important thing is to recognise your achievement.
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Ps. Did you know there is a website called help for hoarders?
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In a couple of words - "not yet".
No pressure, PM. I imagine it's hard to think about tomorrow when you're struggling to get through today?
Search for "Belling Champion Heater" and you'll find out how :)That's some heater you have there PM, are they collector's items now?
The old ones were built to last..
Pamplemousse
25-01-21, 21:25
That's some heater you have there PM, are they collector's items now?
If you're of a certain mindset, yes. A friend of mine has five keeping an exhibition space warm and dry throughout the year. As it happens, I do collect Belling electric fires (amongst other items) - the one I use to heat where I sit is late 60s (there are subtle clues in the design changes), the one upstairs is smaller and much earlier - just post-war, I reckon. The basic design lasted 30 years in production; I think the Belling "Adam" fire was in production virtually unchanged for 50 years!
The oldest fire I have is from about 1920, and I have three other pre-WW2 models in the collection. At the moment I have no gas fire in the front room (not that I could use it anyway) and I need a new surround really, but I did consider not having a replacement fire fitted and merely using the space to showcase the various models in the collection.
Pamplemousse
25-01-21, 21:33
The old ones were built to last..
A friend of mine also collects electric fires, but those made by Berry. I gave him a nice black/gold "Princess" (c. 1955) complete with its box and the first thing he said to me upon receipt was "they're a proper job - heavy and well-made."
This is a "Princess", with log-effect fire (coal was also available);
5285
I've also got several catalogues, dating back to the 1914-15 season, just two years after Charles Belling started the company. The brand name is now owned by Glen Dimplex.
So is this a 'hobby' PM? Or is that too simplistic? It's certainly different and the cliche 'they don't make them like that anymore' applies here.
What I'm fascinated by is WW2 aircraft and museums pertaining to that period. There are a few airfields in my area where Spitfires, Hurricanes and the occasional Mustang can be seen. During the summer months it becomes normal to hear the familiar rumble of a Merlin engine overhead and look up to see a Spitfire.
In 2018 I pulled into the car park of a local airfield to be confronted by two Messerschmitt BF109s. Amazing to see them up close, they are still flying as well as the British planes.
Hot water would make a difference, rather than dragging a kettle up the stairs, boiling water and filling the sink then pouring it over me.
Yes, that would make a difference.
I've always been like this, if I'm honest, but I have got a lot worse this last few months (and before anyone goes on about it, it's got sod-all to do with Covid or lockdown, okay?). Truthfully, I only got showered/bathed when Mrs. PM was alive because I had to go to work. I used to work with a couple of people whom you were well advised to stand upwind of; one was an alcoholic, the other was dealing badly with a failed relationship. And yes, she would prompt me.
As I said, this would be Hubs if I wasn't around to prompt him, so you're not on your own there PM.
There are things in my past I don't share on here that certainly stop me from this.
I hear you. I have a past too, I'd write my memoirs only I reckon parents of autistic girls would have nightmares..
I've been clinically depressed but it didn't affect me in terms of cleanliness - personal or home. I went the other way (OCD clean) I would lie in the bath for hours and sometimes have numerous baths a day. The house was scrubbed clean until my hands bled. I was the opposite to you. But I stopped caring in other ways, and I stopped feeling those emotions which light up my autistic brain like a Christmas tree (in a good way) and I'd take anxiety over that any day.
I know from reading many of your posts that, unlike a few on here, you're in no way "some kind of purple wearing positivity ponce" (funnily enough, as a child my favourite shirt was purple) and clearly there's some back story to you. Similarly, there's stuff I've dealt with that I don't want to talk about.
My favourite colour is purple lol. Suits me green eyes innit. :winks: But I've come across a lot of so-called 'love 'n' lighter - 'namaste' types on forums and they are as false as it gets.
I am a hoarder too btw, but in an ordered way if that makes sense? I've kept every special card since I was 16. I have boxes upon boxes of sentimental 'stuff'. I have literally hundreds of books, records and 1930s and 1940s memorabilia. My house is a shrine to those eras. I've got Winston Churchill in my kitchen and a massive 'never was so much owed by so many to so few RAF airmen poster on my wall. It's the OCD which reigns things in because it just can't function in chaos..
Anyway, I'm rambling - as I do..
People care about you PM. You're amongst friends on here. We don't need to know your life history in order to support you.
No matter what's happened to you, or even if it's something you've done (mixture of both with me) - you can get out of this with the right support. It's never too late to turn things around in order to be in a better place mentally, spiritually and ever other ally. It won't be easy, but the things which are worth doing rarely are. I've been in a seemingly 'impossible' situation where I could literally see no way out, but I did eventually find a way, and I'm in a much better place. It goes to prove that nothing is as impossible as we think. Nothing can ever be perfect because perfection doesn't exist - though Tom Hardy comes very close! :D I just refuse to let the past ruin my present and future.
But I know that my story isn't your story and you have to find your way as I found mine. You have this support on here. Folk care about you. It's a start?
Have you ever had any therapy for the issues in your past? I get that you can't talk about them on here but have you spoken to a therapist?
Nothing much has changed in my house since I moved in in 1986. I've still got the avocado bath suite and a Debonair gas fire (not used) in the lounge. I've got a tiny kitchen with crumbling units, a basic cooker (very basic) and peeling lino on the floor...but it still functions so I'm not bothered. Anyone mad enough to buy this house would completely gut it but I consider myself lucky to have a roof over my head at the moment so am just preserving what I have!
I'm not keen on therapists delving into my past. Just can't see the point.
Pamplemousse
26-01-21, 12:02
Nothing much has changed in my house since I moved in in 1986. I've still got the avocado bath suite and a Debonair gas fire (not used) in the lounge. I've got a tiny kitchen with crumbling units, a basic cooker (very basic) and peeling lino on the floor...but it still functions so I'm not bothered. Anyone mad enough to buy this house would completely gut it but I consider myself lucky to have a roof over my head at the moment so am just preserving what I have!
Until 2014 and a badly-carried out "refurbishment" I had my brother's 1975 Tricity cooker and it was forcibly replaced. I am on the lookout for one on eBay.
Your comment about refurbishment reminds me of my much loved and missed great-aunt, who had to finally buy a new cooker after her old Belling expired. The electricity board refused to connect it to her wiring and so she had the house rewired by them (pre-privatisation, as you can tell). The young lad who did the survey noted that the back bedroom of her end-of-terrace (built around the 1890s) had neither a light or a power point in it and asked her if she'd like one fitted. The response was classic "Auntie";
"Young man, I've not had a light in here since we bought the house in 1936 - whoever has this place when I'm gone can worry about that."
For the records, that was the early 90s...
Good for her..She sounds like she was a very determined lady who would take no new-fangled nonsense!
My previous cooker had an eye level grill and was a true relic...My dad hated it and wanted me to replace it but it worked really well. Eventually I had to replace it with a Flavel Milano 50. It does the job and I'm no gourmet cook. Just want the oven and hob to function-nothing fancy.
Nothing lasts now. I've just had to replace a 3 year old fridge freezer because the motor burnt out. My previous one lasted for many years...
Pamplemousse
26-01-21, 13:53
Nothing lasts now. I've just had to replace a 3 year old fridge freezer because the motor burnt out. My previous one lasted for many years...
Exactly the same situation here. My previous fridge (an "Electra" - sold by electricity boards through their shops) was 27 years old and still functional. The "retro" fridge-freezer it was replaced with (not my choice) lasted three years. You can still get stuff that lasts - but you will pay dearly for it. I had a Miele freezer before, which got sold post-refurb. A Miele fridge-freezer would set me back a minimum of £900 now.
Miele is a great brand but, as you say, very expensive. I like Bosch and would always choose one of their appliances if I could afford them.
Just bought a Beko fridge freezer-manual defrost to save on the motor burnout problem caused by the frost free ones. It's fine so far but am not going to bother with an extended warranty.
Pamplemousse
26-01-21, 21:59
I Pm'd you, PM
Thanks, will read :)
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