View Full Version : This is eating me up.
Hopefully this makes sense and if you read to the end, thanks! I've written it quick (we'll quick for me) so excuse any bad grammar.
My Partner lost her Mum five years ago and her brother in law and sister were trusted to deal with the insurances etc as her dad was 80 at the time, in a state and can't deal with any form of paperwork, financials etc
When everything was all done we were told £15000 had been left over and her brother in law and sister were to look after it until her dad said it was to be split between her sister, brother and my Partner (£5000 each).
Roll on three and a half years (April 2019) and my Partners brother in law phones and said her dad doesn't want the £15000 and they were keeping it! WTF!
We had to fight tooth and nail to get my Partners £5000 and her brothers as he lives in New Zealand. What went on you honestly wouldn't believe, which involved the brother in law throwing himself around on the floor! Yep at 69 years old! (my Partners sister is a sado who needed and married a father figure) and at one point they tried to get my Partners dad to pay my Partners share! Obviously we said no! Why should he!
Anyway that was it for me, but I kept my mouth shut even though the brother in law threw nothing but guilt trips our way all throughout the summer.
Anyway my Partners Auntie died (her dad's sister) in August and because of what happened before I was asked to sort out her estate.
When sorting the estate I had to use my Partners dad's cheque book as he can't write cheques, yes that's how confused etc he is and I noticed all these cheques written out by my Partners brother in law and sister to themselves from her mums insurance and it turns out the cheque for £15000 was £20000 and lots of other large cheques £4000, £3000, £2604! WTF!
So they had done my Partner and her brother out of their share of the £5000 as they were told it was £15000 plus all these other cheques!!!
Anyway we got onto my Partners brother in New Zealand and at this point it was also realised that the brother in law and sister had also kept £2000 that was given to them to forward to him in New Zealand! When my Partners mum died her dad gave £2000 to each of the children, but her brothers was kept!! Scumbags!
My Partners brother phoned them from New Zealand about all the cheques and his £2000 and he recorded it. What we heard was truly horrific, complete denial and trying to even blame me and my Partner throughout! Scumbags!
Anyway my Partner and her brother left it with just £1000 each from them and the £2000 for her brother, which I couldn't believe!!
Anyway in July 2020 I was asked to check if an insurance for my Partners mum hadn't been claimed and I took the paperwork all home to check, sort, file and also get her dad's in order.
The paperwork was a complete state, things missing, it had been well and truly ransacked by the brother in law and sister after the death of her mum and what do you know??? They had taken all my Partners dad's insurance etc at the same time as taking her mum's!!!!
They had to even gain grant of probate to take her dad's at the same time as her mums!!!
Anyway we had nothing but denial as before, so I had to go through absolutely everything, gain all the letters they wrote to the insurance companies, gain pictures of cheques etc, the whole lot!
They denied everything all the way and still do, even though I've gained everything in black and white. They still deny getting grant of probate even though I managed to get a copy with their name on it from the High Court of Justice!!! They had obviously ditched the probate certificate and everything, but I gained it all in black and white!!
I also got all of the bank statements going back to when my Partners mum died and not only had they done all this they had been taking all her dad's cash which we rekon to have been £20000 plus all these cheques!!!!
Anyway we thought it was over even though they still deny everything, us having absolutely everything in black and white, when the money left her dad's account and, went into theirs etc, but my Partner bumped into them just before Christmas and they said that I've told a load of lies, they wouldn't rip the family off etc!!
Can you believe all that?! All I want to do is explode! Struggling with it!! They left my Partners Dad with nothing and took much of what was due to my Partner and her brother from the death of her mum!
Also despite taking everything, they asked my Partners Dad for money for car repairs etc!!! He payed everytime they went out!! Talk about take advantage of an old confused man!!!
ankietyjoe
24-01-21, 22:00
I believe every word of it.
I've seen this kind of thing before, and been through a complicated financial legal battle myself.
You won't want to hear this, but unless you have a rock solid money trail on paper, let it go and walk away. Legal bills will consume all of that money in a matter of months.
Please, don't get caught up in a mental and/or battle for this, it's not worth it.
I believe every word of it.
I've seen this kind of thing before, and been through a complicated financial legal battle myself.
You won't want to hear this, but unless you have a rock solid money trail on paper, let it go and walk away. Legal bills will consume all of that money in a matter of months.
Please, don't get caught up in a mental and/or battle for this, it's not worth it.
I have absolutely everything in black and white. It's hook line and sinker, completely concrete.
We aren't taking anything further as my Partners dad is 85 and very mentally fragile.
I've been dealing with this for twenty one months, whilst everything has unravelled in stages.
The denial and petulance my Partners brother in law and sister have shown and are still showing is out of this world.
It has torn my Partners side of the family apart.
ankietyjoe
24-01-21, 22:51
Sorry, I read one of the last paragraphs wrong as you NOT having everything in black and white.
Even with a paper trail, there's no quick solution to this. The most likely outcome (I feel) is a legal battle for 12-18 months, and then another one to recover your costs if you win.
I think you're in a situation where you have to figure you (with your partner) if the money is worth the fight.
My experience of lawyers is that their main role is to extend the period of conflict, and to increase fee potential as much as possible. That's not a cynical viewpoint, it's just based on my experience with them.
Their denial is the thing that has the potential to make things very expensive, their lawyer with work with that.
Obviously you have to make that judgement call based on how much that amount of money is worth to you and your family. It's not an easy decision.
This happens soooo much within families and you can never retrieve it back.
Could your partner act as Power of Attorney for her dad then everything in future would have to be passed by her. And she can look after the accounts?
This happens soooo much within families and you can never retrieve it back.
Could your partner act as Power of Attorney for her dad then everything in future would have to be passed by her. And she can look after the accounts?
Yeah, you'd have to have your SO get power of attorney or be executor of the estate...as least that's how it would work here.
Carnation and Joe, Thanks for the replies.
We wouldn't go down the legal route. We are going to try and sort out power of attorney, but we have had to tread very carefully as not to alert my Partners Dad to much to the situation as he really is struggling and the tiniest little thing freaks him out, so we all need to get our heads together as not to spook him.
I really don't understand how they can do what they did, they milked everything from a vulnerable old man.
This has taken up twenty one months of my life, at every stage that this all unravelled they were given the chance to explain, yet they deny and act like the wounded party, even though I have absolutely everything in black and white.
I really thought it was all over, for them to be saying I've told a load of lies to people, has made think about slander/libel action against them.
If my Partner had her share of what they've had, it would make a massive difference to our lives!
Yeah, you'd have to have your SO get power of attorney or be executor of the estate...as least that's how it would work here.
This is why we think the brother in law and sister thought they could get away with taking everything. The brother in law was executor to her dad's estate, so when he passed they could of told us anything.
When this was first unravelling it was changed to my Partners brother.
Yeah, unfortunately, this is all too common among many families... I watched this happen in my ex's family twice. I don't really know what advice to give you, but I wish you good luck :hugs:
Hi Matt, sorry this has been your experience.
Unfortunately, money can turn people into selfish, deceptive and greedy shits.
meltedchic
25-01-21, 12:59
Greediness and love of money will totally wreck the family. Poor old man, he don't have any idea how bad the situation is. I couldn't stand on how the those two have the guts to deny where in fact you have everything on trail, in black and white....
geez, what evilness money can do.
Mate, I hope you and your partner will get through this.
Matt. Power of Attorney is so easy to set up. No solicitor required. They send you the form. You fill it out. A couple of witnesses needed, one of them not family and your Partner's dad signs in front of the witness. People set them up well before they become incapable.
There are two forms. One for financial and one for health. x
Matt,
Sorry to hear this man. I was POA for both my parents before they passed. Believe it or not I counted it a blessing when they ran out of money due to mom's Alzheimer's. But one of the many non monetary things my dad left me was good advice. During a very low point in my life he took me aside. He could see I was struggling greatly with a particular issue that was beyond my control. He said...sometimes son a guy's gotta cut his losses and move on.
Not sure if this is one of those times for you or not. Just something to keep in mind. Good luck.
I know it's very easy for me to give advice on such a distressing and enraging issue for you, Matt but I agree with Noivous.
It's just not worth the toll on your mental and possibly physical health. Yes they are scumbags but you have done all you can at great expense to your own wellbeing. It may be best to cut your losses and move on but make sure such a situation can never happen again legally.
Hi Matt, sorry this has been your experience.
Unfortunately, money can turn people into selfish, deceptive and greedy shits.
Can't believe how devious they have been and just deny the lot.
I can't tolerate shite like this, it doesn't compute with me.
Matt. Power of Attorney is so easy to set up. No solicitor required. They send you the form. You fill it out. A couple of witnesses needed, one of them not family and your Partner's dad signs in front of the witness. People set them up well before they become incapable.
There are two forms. One for financial and one for health. x
Thanks Carnation, that's good to know:)
MyNameIsTerry
27-01-21, 06:23
Matt, I'm really sorry to hear this has continued mate. I remember you talking about this before.
Sadly I'm not surprised either. Some people are just scum. They turn your pockets out as you may dying in the street.
But I'm wondering why the civil legal action route is even being considered since this is covered under criminal law? Councils and Social Services have protection services for the vulnerable and part of that is coercion into signing away finances like these cheques.
They should be in front of a judge mate.
MyNameIsTerry
27-01-21, 06:35
Matt. Power of Attorney is so easy to set up. No solicitor required. They send you the form. You fill it out. A couple of witnesses needed, one of them not family and your Partner's dad signs in front of the witness. People set them up well before they become incapable.
There are two forms. One for financial and one for health. x
It's a pity the thieves hadn't gone the POA route. The lack of justification for those cheques alone would be an offence that the Office of the Public Guardian could investigate.
Been looking at this route ourselves and it's quite easy to do. The forms are brief and pretty easy. You just have to be really careful with a couple of sections (individual or shared decisions) and also use the correct legal wordings so you don't void it. It's well explained in the guide that comes with it.
I'll be doing this myself for dad to allow him to control mum's at some point but for now we got around the money situation with online accounts and new bank account for dad (most of his pensions were paid into mum's individual account so once she became too ill...).
Matt, does he have a GP that could sign it? There are 2 forms of witness and one has to be a suitable person to judge the ability to sign (certificate provider). Signings also have to be performed in a certain order.
Why line a solicitors pockets if you don't have too. It would cut those things straight out. But get some advice too because like MrsC said people do them before the donor becomes incapable. Until then you can act under the POA but they can continue too. Your sneaky relatives could still try it on through coercion. With the health LPA though it doesn't start until the person becomes incapable. You don't need to have both though but the financial one might help you.
Is there any chance these thieves have got themselves set up to act on his behalf e.g. with the bank so they handle queries, transfers, etc. Don't need POA for that there is a 3rd party mandate route the banks can use in law but he still has to sign it in their presence so they can rule out incapability and coercion.
Greediness and love of money will totally wreck the family. Poor old man, he don't have any idea how bad the situation is. I couldn't stand on how the those two have the guts to deny where in fact you have everything on trail, in black and white....
geez, what evilness money can do.
Mate, I hope you and your partner will get through this.
Yep it's unbelievable and to not only doing what they did, to try and deflect blame on to me and my Partner also is incredible and has put a massive strain on our relationship.
Matt, I'm really sorry to hear this has continued mate. I remember you talking about this before.
Sadly I'm not surprised either. Some people are just scum. They turn your pockets out as you may dying in the street.
But I'm wondering why the civil legal action route is even being considered since this is covered under criminal law? Councils and Social Services have protection services for the vulnerable and part of that is coercion into signing away finances like these cheques.
They should be in front of a judge mate.
Yep it's a nightmare Terry. They're are sick, but we aren't going to do any pursuing as my Partners dad is so fragile mentally and we can't risk it.
One of the insurance companies wanted to get their fraud team involved and I wish I'd said "yes" now, but couldn't.
Matt,
Sorry to hear this man. I was POA for both my parents before they passed. Believe it or not I counted it a blessing when they ran out of money due to mom's Alzheimer's. But one of the many non monetary things my dad left me was good advice. During a very low point in my life he took me aside. He could see I was struggling greatly with a particular issue that was beyond my control. He said...sometimes son a guy's gotta cut his losses and move on.
Not sure if this is one of those times for you or not. Just something to keep in mind. Good luck.
Thanks Noivous, Good words and advice.
I have to try and move on. We thought we had after gathering all the evidence in black and white, but they're still acting like a couple of petulant kids.
I know it's very easy for me to give advice on such a distressing and enraging issue for you, Matt but I agree with Noivous.
It's just not worth the toll on your mental and possibly physical health. Yes they are scumbags but you have done all you can at great expense to your own wellbeing. It may be best to cut your losses and move on but make sure such a situation can never happen again legally.
We're going to have to.
My Partners brother has told us that they're not to go into the house and we're to have the locks changed if anything happens to my Partners dad.
I wont do this, but I will ask for their key, with great pleasure.
Yes it has had a massive toll on my mental health and physical health. I'm going through enough without all this bollox.
Based on the title of your thread Matt it may be the way forward for you. You have fought the good fight my friend. There is such a thing as self preservation. God bless.
If you allow this to eat you up you'll lose sight of your main priorities in life, ie your own family, and your anger will take over and cloud your judgement.
Keep mentally on top of this, Matt? You've done all you can.
Back in my late teens and early 20's, I basically divorced myself from my family. I stayed close to my parents and sister and while my mother's side of the family were pretty cool, my father's side of the family could have been on Jerry Springer! I have no regrets.
Positive thoughts
Back in my late teens and early 20's, I basically divorced myself from my family. I stayed close to my parents and sister and while my mother's side of the family were pretty cool, my father's side of the family could have been on Jerry Springer! I have no regrets.
Positive thoughts
Re Jerry Springer: are we talking flying chairs here Fishmanpa?
Hi Matt I agree with what everyone is saying,my mums side of the family are all greedy muva’s even Old granny hated parting with her dosh she came across to people as a philanthropist but not to us.
Have you been riding your bike? I went for a short ride today and gee it was good to get back on it,haven’t had a good run since I did my knee in.xx
Isn’t it awful that siblings can behave this way with no shame. Sorry for you and your partner Matt, and your father in law too. Some people think they are so entitled to things and it’s desperately sad.
I couldn’t imagine fighting with my sister over our parents money, or the upset it would cause me.
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Based on the title of your thread Matt it may be the way forward for you. You have fought the good fight my friend. There is such a thing as self preservation. God bless.
Yep Noivous,
There isn't going to be any going back, they've been told as much, they've made their bed and been cut off.
I will never understand what they did and their behaviour throughout has been nauseating.
Cheers Noivous my friend!
If you allow this to eat you up you'll lose sight of your main priorities in life, ie your own family, and your anger will take over and cloud your judgement.
Keep mentally on top of this, Matt? You've done all you can.
Yes Pulisa, The whole thing has angered me, put a massive strain on things at home and completely consumed me if I'm honest.
I will never understand it, it's beyond me and the way I was brought up. They've been cut off and everyone in the family has severed social contact.
Back in my late teens and early 20's, I basically divorced myself from my family. I stayed close to my parents and sister and while my mother's side of the family were pretty cool, my father's side of the family could have been on Jerry Springer! I have no regrets.
Positive thoughts
Cheers Fishmanpa, They've gone!
Jerry Springer.... That bad eh? No wonder you cut them loose!
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