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People may remember I worried about my letter box as my mum put an envelope through it and I worried it had been near the bin. I ended up getting a new door but it’s been contaminated already as a parcel man has put my neighbours parcel in the wheelie bin and put a slip through the door so now I am worried about that letter box as he never obviously washed his hands so the germs are on the letter box?
MRS STRESS ED
03-02-21, 16:15
You can't live life like this its near impossible to escape every single germ, and you could end up replacing everything where will it end seriously you need to get help and if you have you need more help, you know this isn't healthy take care xx
Yes I know I feel so much anger with Amazon right now. Basically anything coming via the letter box I will worry is dirty now. I have an area on my floor where my mum put a bag down she touched the bin and the bag so that area is off limits. I posted lots about the letter box before which was same issue sadly I replaced it and well the issue has come back again. Cleaning does little for me basically I think only replacing it which would be extreme as the door is only months old.
Phil its not your letter box or your door or amazon thats the problem its how your interpreting these events & i think you surely know this, you need to get some help for your own sanity & peace of mind, you can’t keep worrying about germs like this. Could you settle with a good spray of antibac on the door, handle & letterbox, its really all any of us can do right now, might make you feel better that your being proactive. I hope you can find some peace in all this. Take care.
Phil, this literally could be the same thread you started last year, or the year before, or 15 years ago. I had to look at the date to make sure it was a current thread. What do you think you should do (and don't say to replace the door, because that fixes nothing) ? What do YOU think would be a good course of action here ?
Unfortunately he touched the bin then the letter box but like I know you can’t control what people do outside your door that’s the issue. I could clean the letter box but given a similar issue did happen last year with the old door I know I will worry about every item coming through letter box. To give you an idea how much of an issue it was I would pay extra and deliver items to the post office it avoid the letter box so yeah that’s where I’m at. I was still able to use dvds from the letter box but that was all..
But yes I’m glad I don’t have the dirty parcel I have a video door bell he fished the parcel out but still managed to write a note to say it was In my bin but the germs are on my neighbours letter box too as he chapped her door.
I could clean the letter box
Yes, you could, using alcohol hand gel - which we know kills 'germs' dead, if its good enough for COVID its good enough for anything you think is on your letter box. The 'germs' will be gone, destroyed. Then, leave it and live with it, challenge the anxiety.
Yes, you could, using alcohol hand gel - which we know kills 'germs' dead, if its good enough for COVID its good enough for anything you think is on your letter box. The 'germs' will be gone, destroyed. Then, leave it and live with it, challenge the anxiety.
Yes for most people cleaning it would be logical and that solves the issue. I wish that helped what can I say I clean something when this happens it maybe helps 1% that’s all. My biggest issue has been only replacing or avoiding seems to ease the anxiety. I’ve heard all the exposure therapies I mean I know nobody can say anything else. Nobody replaces brand new door so in my view it has to stay dirty. I really wish cleaning made it all better it would really make things like this easier to deal with.
I concluded it maybe wasn’t the germs that worried me. It’s the tainted thing I think Terry picked up on it before. When something becomes tainted I deem it no longer fit for good use. My therapist at the time said I should tell myself it’s “functional or good enough” to avoid replacing. I just find it really hard people often said cleaning is a compulsion but I’m not at a stage where cleaning even helps.
If you say the germs are gone I believe that but for me the item is no longer good for use I wonder how I can over come that as thats the issue really. Most people will look at it and say clean it that’s the logical thing but I don’t think that’s really what’s going on. The only way I would rid myself of the fear is removed the door. I know from experience I know that’s not very practical though?
I know nobody can say anything else.
EXACTLY! Nor should they! (Hint Hint!)
FMP
Uh Phil, how many threads are you going to start? I think you should just make one big thread called “Phil’s Worries” and leave it at that.
People may remember I worried about my letter box as my mum put an envelope through it and I worried it had been near the bin. I ended up getting a new door but it’s been contaminated already as a parcel man has put my neighbours parcel in the wheelie bin and put a slip through the door so now I am worried about that letter box as he never obviously washed his hands so the germs are on the letter box?
Have I got this right Phil?
On another thread I think you said that you 'think' you have OCD?
Have I got this right Phil?
On another thread I think you said that you 'think' you have OCD?
I think he said that he had an OCD diagnosis but that his OCD was "ok" and his worrries were all concentrated on the jab..
https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?243368-Do-people-see-the-old-normal-coming-back-this-year/page15
glassgirlw
04-02-21, 11:16
Yes, Phil has said he was diagnosed with OCD. But he says he doesn’t suffer much with it and manages it ok.
The problem is, the way Phil manages his OCD is through avoidance and replacement. Neither of these options is managing the OCD. It’s giving into the compulsions and then obsessing over something else. Until Phil is willing to put in the months of hard work, he’s just going to be trapped in this vicious circle with no ending. It has to be awful for him.
Yes, Phil has said he was diagnosed with OCD. But he says he doesn’t suffer much with it and manages it ok.
The problem is, the way Phil manages his OCD is through avoidance and replacement. Neither of these options is managing the OCD. It’s giving into the compulsions and then obsessing over something else. Until Phil is willing to put in the months of hard work, he’s just going to be trapped in this vicious circle with no ending. It has to be awful for him.
You are correct. I manage it so click and collect these parcels, avoid the area of the floor I think is dirty this is how I manage it. If I could replace the door again I would. I feel quite anxious about parcels coming through the door as all I can think about is bin germs. When my partner goes to the bin she washes her hands so that’s the issue I know some people don’t wash there hands but I don’t think much will change how I feel. I’ve had therapy on this exact issue and very little changed?
WILLIAMthedude
04-02-21, 12:05
Understandable given the times we are in. Of course, you're very safe. According to the office of national statistics, 82.5 is the average mortality rate for the current pandemic so you can rest assured there's little for you to be concerned about. That said, no one wants to get sick because it's no fun at all. You can mitigate the risks by wearing gloves and bleaching the door as this will remove almost all the risk of catching anything.
Still, you should work to address the irrational fear that is misguiding you. Buying a new door is an inappropriate response. You know this. So, try to take control of your thinking by leaning into more construction, meaningful, and enjoyable modes of thinking. Consider activities and hobbies you are passionate about and pursue them. You're a vibrant, charismatic, and important person. Recognise your skills and abilities and set yourself benchmarks for purposeful actions.
There's more to be said.
By all means, reach out on william_taylor@hotmail.co.uk
Happy to discuss it further with you.
I’ve had therapy on this exact issue and very little changed?
Very little has changed Phil, because you don't put into practice the methods your therapists have tried to get you to do.
venusbluejeans
04-02-21, 12:38
Understandable given the times we are in. Of course, you're very safe. According to the office of national statistics, 82.5 is the average mortality rate for the current pandemic so you can rest assured there's little for you to be concerned about. That said, no one wants to get sick because it's no fun at all. You can mitigate the risks by wearing gloves and bleaching the door as this will remove almost all the risk of catching anything.
Still, you should work to address the irrational fear that is misguiding you. Buying a new door is an inappropriate response. You know this. So, try to take control of your thinking by leaning into more construction, meaningful, and enjoyable modes of thinking. Consider activities and hobbies you are passionate about and pursue them. You're a vibrant, charismatic, and important person. Recognise your skills and abilities and set yourself benchmarks for purposeful actions.
There's more to be said.
By all means, reach out on william_taylor@hotmail.co.uk
Happy to discuss it further with you.
Perhaps giving out your email address on a puclic forum isn't the best idea as you may get allsorts of unwanted emails.... maybe tell people they can PM you if they want to discuss things would be better
glassgirlw
04-02-21, 13:00
You are correct. I manage it so click and collect these parcels, avoid the area of the floor I think is dirty this is how I manage it. If I could replace the door again I would. I feel quite anxious about parcels coming through the door as all I can think about is bin germs. When my partner goes to the bin she washes her hands so that’s the issue I know some people don’t wash there hands but I don’t think much will change how I feel. I’ve had therapy on this exact issue and very little changed?
I don’t mean to downplay that you’ve had therapy because I think that’s fantastic - but just a few sessions here and there and expect the therapist to cure you. Therapy is an interactive activity. You have to put to use the techniques you’re given for months at a time. And be open to trying new techniques, and be willing to change habits. It all ties in together as far as whether therapy will be effective.
I can only base my judgement on past posts you’ve made on this exact issue. And what youve indicated is that you do less than 10 sessions and are continuing the same obsessive behavior between sessions, with no mention of the techniques given to you being attempted. It’s really no wonder therapy hasn’t worked for you yet. You have to be willing and open to change. Until you reach that point there isn’t much anyone here can do to help you over an online forum.
Just my opinion.
I don’t mean to downplay that you’ve had therapy because I think that’s fantastic - but just a few sessions here and there and expect the therapist to cure you. Therapy is an interactive activity. You have to put to use the techniques you’re given for months at a time. And be open to trying new techniques, and be willing to change habits. It all ties in together as far as whether therapy will be effective.
I can only base my judgement on past posts you’ve made on this exact issue. And what youve indicated is that you do less than 10 sessions and are continuing the same obsessive behavior between sessions, with no mention of the techniques given to you being attempted. It’s really no wonder therapy hasn’t worked for you yet. You have to be willing and open to change. Until you reach that point there isn’t much anyone here can do to help you over an online forum.
Just my opinion.
Exactly ^^^
I don’t know how I will get over this I did wipe the letter box down but it’s not reduced my anxiety in any way atall?
glassgirlw
04-02-21, 23:34
I don’t know how I will get over this I did wipe the letter box down but it’s not reduced my anxiety in any way atall?
You have said though that germs really aren’t the issue for you - that it’s more about the item being “tainted”, or no longer “new”. I’m not sure that wiping it down is going to help your thought processes that it’s no longer “new”.
In your past therapy sessions, did you discuss your issue of items becoming tainted and the compulsion to replace them? If so, what types of techniques did the therapist suggest for you?
If you didn’t discuss this in therapy, I’d say you need to find a therapist and get started again.
You have said though that germs really aren’t the issue for you - that it’s more about the item being “tainted”, or no longer “new”. I’m not sure that wiping it down is going to help your thought processes that it’s no longer “new”.
In your past therapy sessions, did you discuss your issue of items becoming tainted and the compulsion to replace them? If so, what types of techniques did the therapist suggest for you?
If you didn’t discuss this in therapy, I’d say you need to find a therapist and get started again.
Ok a bit of background on it I did lots of work on bins in the CBT. Had ten sessions and stopped so the therapist ignored my emails so I never seen her again. I took a big step to go for more CBT last summer and again after one session they ignored me and never got back to me.
But yes the actual CBT she mentioned touching bins exposure therapy but I explained that doesn’t really appeal. So she worked on trying to make me accept the door does it’s job and it was functional it helped a little and I never replaced the door for a while. Problem is I still click and collected parcels. To make it easier it’s not just the door it’s other things. If someone touches a bin and doesn’t wash there hands that area becomes “forever contaminated”. So for example if you touched my tv remote after touching a bin I would probably dispose of it or not use it. I am not sure if that helps my thinking is sort of distorted. I tried to challenge it and say if hands are cleaned after a bin they are not forever contaminated but objects are. Why is this maybe as I know we of know you can’t replace that but physical objects are easy to replace and I get the new feeling. The therapist said I maybe get a buzz from the new feeling if an item?
glassgirlw
05-02-21, 02:31
But yes the actual CBT she mentioned touching bins exposure therapy but I explained that doesn’t really appeal.
I understand everything you said. However this one line stuck out to me. “Didn’t really appeal”. Why is that? Does it
make your anxiety increase? Make you feel uncomfortable? To me, that’s the purpose of exposure therapy. To make us uncomfortable at first, honestly probably the first several times you do it. Eventually the goal is that when you touch a particular item, you no longer react. But this isn’t a fast process. It could take twenty, thirty, a hundred plus, times before you stop reacting negatively. Are you willing to put in that kind of work? Do you want your compulsions to stop that badly? I think you’re the only one that can answer those questions...I personally think you have it in you. We all do. It’s just up to us how willing we are to put in the hard work.
You are correct. I manage it so click and collect these parcels, avoid the area of the floor I think is dirty this is how I manage it. If I could replace the door again I would. I feel quite anxious about parcels coming through the door as all I can think about is bin germs. When my partner goes to the bin she washes her hands so that’s the issue I know some people don’t wash there hands but I don’t think much will change how I feel. I’ve had therapy on this exact issue and very little changed?
Taking doors off and considering moving house simply to 'alleviate' your contamination issues isn't managing it Phil.
But yes the actual CBT she mentioned touching bins exposure therapy but I explained that doesn’t really appeal.
Exposure therapy is golden standard when it comes to OCD. It doesn't have to 'appeal' to you. It's what you fear, so it's obviously going to be unpleasant to start with..
So she worked on trying to make me accept the door does it’s job and it was functional it helped a little and I never replaced the door for a while. Problem is I still click and collected parcels. To make it easier it’s not just the door it’s other things. If someone touches a bin and doesn’t wash there hands that area becomes “forever contaminated”. So for example if you touched my tv remote after touching a bin I would probably dispose of it or not use it.
So, how do you cope with contamination fears when you go on holiday abroad on planes etc?
How do you cope in hotels or self-catering accommodation? Do you take the doors off there? Obviously, you don't - so how do you cope?
One of the many issues I have with going on holiday is that my OCD goes with me and I still do the checking/fire thing - as well as being in a strange place. As a result, I don't like going on holiday due to the stress, but it seems like you do and I'm intrigued as to how this works with your OCD?
I understand everything you said. However this one line stuck out to me. “Didn’t really appeal”. Why is that? Does it
make your anxiety increase? Make you feel uncomfortable? To me, that’s the purpose of exposure therapy. To make us uncomfortable at first, honestly probably the first several times you do it. Eventually the goal is that when you touch a particular item, you no longer react. But this isn’t a fast process. It could take twenty, thirty, a hundred plus, times before you stop reacting negatively. Are you willing to put in that kind of work? Do you want your compulsions to stop that badly? I think you’re the only one that can answer those questions...I personally think you have it in you. We all do. It’s just up to us how willing we are to put in the hard work.
I tried touching areas i found contaminated and I found it a little hard. The anxiety never really went. I tried a few times but as you say maybe it takes more. Nothing bad happened when I touched it but the anxiety i felt was too uncomfortable so I either give items away or wash my hands?
glassgirlw
05-02-21, 11:54
I tried touching areas i found contaminated and I found it a little hard. The anxiety never really went. I tried a few times but as you say maybe it takes more. Nothing bad happened when I touched it but the anxiety i felt was too uncomfortable so I either give items away or wash my hands?
I think that it makes you uncomfortable means that it’s working. But you can’t give up. You just have to keep doing it no matter how hard it is or how long it takes. Ignore the urge to replace and keep touching the parcels, the bins, the door, etc. Eventually it will be second nature and that urge to replace will be much less.
there isn’t much anyone here can do to help you over an online forum.
Exactly! F.i.f.t.e.e.n. years..... :shrug:
FMP
Ok a bit of background on it I did lots of work on bins in the CBT. Had ten sessions and stopped so the therapist ignored my emails so I never seen her again. I took a big step to go for more CBT last summer and again after one session they ignored me and never got back to me.
But yes the actual CBT she mentioned touching bins exposure therapy but I explained that doesn’t really appeal. So she worked on trying to make me accept the door does it’s job and it was functional it helped a little and I never replaced the door for a while. Problem is I still click and collected parcels. To make it easier it’s not just the door it’s other things. If someone touches a bin and doesn’t wash there hands that area becomes “forever contaminated”. So for example if you touched my tv remote after touching a bin I would probably dispose of it or not use it. I am not sure if that helps my thinking is sort of distorted. I tried to challenge it and say if hands are cleaned after a bin they are not forever contaminated but objects are. Why is this maybe as I know we of know you can’t replace that but physical objects are easy to replace and I get the new feeling. The therapist said I maybe get a buzz from the new feeling if an item?
You can dispose of "tainted" objects and replace them with "pristine" alternatives because you have the choice and the resources to do so. Your home I presume is where all your contamination issues come together and torment you? Does going away on holiday liberate you because you can escape from all the vigilance and monitoring?
You can control objects but you can't control humans so how do you tolerate your wife's mistakes on the contamination front?
You can dispose of "tainted" objects and replace them with "pristine" alternatives because you have the choice and the resources to do so. Your home I presume is where all your contamination issues come together and torment you? Does going away on holiday liberate you because you can escape from all the vigilance and monitoring?
You can control objects but you can't control humans so how do you tolerate your wife's mistakes on the contamination front?
Oh yes going on holiday is very good other than when I block a toilet my compulsion has been to never stay at that hotel again. But I’ve not done that in a few years so yeah generally I dont need to worry about floors or doors. 2 times I feel normal in life work and on holiday I get an escape from my day to day worries..
My goal for retirement is to holiday longer maybe a holiday home. But I generally get anxious about going away any longer than 5 days and long haul flights are an issue too.
Oh yes going on holiday is very good other than when I block a toilet my compulsion has been to never stay at that hotel again. But I’ve not done that in a few years so yeah generally I dont need to worry about floors or doors. 2 times I feel normal in life work and on holiday I get an escape from my day to day worries..
My goal for retirement is to holiday longer maybe a holiday home. But I generally get anxious about going away any longer than 5 days and long haul flights are an issue too.
I don't in any way mean to come across as patronising, Phil, but I do find your last paragraph a bit baffling, especially since last spring where you seem to have been working yourself up into frenzies on several occasions over being denied holidays abroad due to the Covid pandemic, but also at the same time have grave anxieties about being away from home for more than 5 days and also flying, especially long haul flights.
Phil wants to fly long haul but at the same time is terrified of flying. His holidays give him enough time to fulfill his objectives but are not long enough to cause him anxiety at being away from home.
True but I honestly don’t see myself ever having another holiday again for many years if ever. They won’t be happy until they are coming up to my door to jab me before I can even enter my front street. Meanwhile Italy has exited lockdown a few days ago.
Phil, this is why you draw such hostility on here. I get that your fears are very real, however, it's pretty low for you to be angry that the rest of the world won't accommodate your irrational fears. An injection won't harm you, millions of people get them every day.
Phil, this is why you draw such hostility on here. I get that your fears are very real, however, it's pretty low for you to be angry that the rest of the world won't accommodate your irrational fears. An injection won't harm you, millions of people get them every day.
Remind me how the swine flu vaccine went we all know what happened. The world shouldn’t drive people to depression and suicides with vaccine passports in other words freedom passports keeping those who refuse in a permanent lockdown. What’s life without free liberties? You realise it won’t just be me who refuses the vaccine approx 15%?
Say you can 15% of society let’s have an open debate about how these people get there human rights back then? Banned from weddings pubs and holidays no quality of life? Tell me what you do about the suicides? The social unrest with 15% isolated?
When we vaccinate all over 50’s the morality rate drops by 98% so how would it overwhelm the nhs by refusing it?
Stepping away now, for my own mental health. Politely requesting you don't DM me to guilt trip me or continue this. I was trying to explain why you get hostile responses on here and give you something to think about, but as others on here have said, basic empathy is clearly beyond you.
I’m sorry you feel this way. I can understand the need for people to take the vaccine which is fine but for myself I have lots of worries so I will see that others think of these issues.
In addition to the many other aspects of your mental illnesses....
Narcissistic personality disorder
One of several types of personality disorders — is a mental condition in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for excessive attention and admiration, troubled relationships, and a lack of empathy for others. But behind this mask of extreme confidence lies a fragile self-esteem that's vulnerable to the slightest criticism.
A narcissistic personality disorder causes problems in many areas of life, such as relationships, work, school or financial affairs. People with narcissistic personality disorder may be generally unhappy and disappointed when they're not given the special favors or admiration they believe they deserve. They may find their relationships unfulfilling, and others may not enjoy being around them.
FMP
In addition to the many other aspects of your mental illnesses....
Narcissistic personality disorder
One of several types of personality disorders — is a mental condition in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for excessive attention and admiration, troubled relationships, and a lack of empathy for others. But behind this mask of extreme confidence lies a fragile self-esteem that's vulnerable to the slightest criticism.
A narcissistic personality disorder causes problems in many areas of life, such as relationships, work, school or financial affairs. People with narcissistic personality disorder may be generally unhappy and disappointed when they're not given the special favors or admiration they believe they deserve. They may find their relationships unfulfilling, and others may not enjoy being around them.
FMP
Thats pretty rude if you. End of the day I am here to talk about my worries and get help. Some people can’t even come forward to get help. You have no idea how I believe in real life. I want a holiday so what? It’s not a crime to want a holiday is it? I know every pleasurable thing in life is on hold but surely it’s in everybody’s interest for things to return to normal?
Thats pretty rude if you. End of the day I am here to talk about my worries and get help. Some people can’t even come forward to get help. You have no idea how I believe in real life. I want a holiday so what? It’s not a crime to want a holiday is it? I know every pleasurable thing in life is on hold but surely it’s in everybody’s interest for things to return to normal?
We're all suffering due to the pandemic. I, along with many here have lost family members. We're all dealing with restrictions, job losses, financial hardships and a plethora of other worries and stresses due to this. You're bitching about imaginary bin germs on a door for the umpteenth time, getting a vaccine and going on vacation!
Just telling it like I see it Phil and your reaction affirms my belief. You don't want help. You want attention, plain and simple. You don't like the post? Report it.
FMP
We're all suffering due to the pandemic. I, along with many here have lost family members. We're all dealing with restrictions, job losses, financial hardships and a plethora of other worries and stresses due to this. You're bitching about imaginary bin germs on a door for the umpteenth time, getting a vaccine and going on vacation!
Just telling it like I see it Phil and your reaction affirms my belief. You don't want help. You want attention, plain and simple. You don't like the post? Report it.
FMP
It would be a funny world if we all had the same worries. To you it may seem trivial but to me these worries are crippling.
It would be a funny world if we all had the same worries. To you it may seem trivial but to me these worries are crippling.
Which again, affirms my opinion and post. While mental illness can be and often is a reason for someone's behavior, it's not an excuse.
FMP
I can understand the need for people to take the vaccine which is fine but for myself I have lots of worries so I will see that others think of these issues.
So, this is how I see it. I know I've said this before, but I will say it again:
You will be saved from having the vaccine, and saved from covid, and have your life back to normal, and go on your holidays - DUE TO all the people who go ahead with having the vaccine (I could bring up masks here too, but that ended in the thread being closed lol).
You will be able to take advantage of the goodwill and strength of the majority of people, to enable you to get things back how you want them, without having to cause yourself any anxiety at all. I am freaking terrified of the vaccine, terrified, I have a life-long phobia of medicines, but will somehow be having this vaccine. I have to. I'm sure there are a LOT of people who have fears of needles, fears of medics, fears of medicine, who will also go ahead with the vaccine, despite their anxieties. You don't think many people also have 'lots of worries' ? Really ? What would happen if everyone who had 'some worries' didn't have the vaccine - tell me - what would happen ?
It absolutely drives me nuts that there are people who display avoidance of anything that potentially would help society, and throw aside the need to take any action, in favour of their own personal needs and anxieties. I get that you have fears, I truly do, what I don't understand is there is not a smidgeon of sadness that you aren't able to 'do your bit', and relish the fact that everybody else will deliver your goals to you through their actions.
I don't think you will even process what I've written to be honest.
Had a bunch of stuff typed but my browser lost it all.
Short version: I love you, Carys. Never stop being you.
Oh Blue, you are so sweet, it really wasn't that earth-shattering, just 'from the heart stuff' that I know you happen to agree with. :hugs:
I also think you have NPD, Phil. I've told you this before. I don't tell you to make you feel bad. I've even told you that people who have NPD aren't inherently bad people; they just need help. You also say you have OCD, and you generally post in GAD. Yet you've only been to therapy a handful of times. As GG told you, how will that cure you? It won't. All of these things are life-long conditions that you work at to keep in remission. But you, like many serial posters on here, don't do anything to help your mental health, yet keep expecting it to be fixed one day. The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
It's a great post, carys and you're right about your last sentence
So, this is how I see it. I know I've said this before, but I will say it again:
You will be saved from having the vaccine, and saved from covid, and have your life back to normal, and go on your holidays - DUE TO all the people who go ahead with having the vaccine (I could bring up masks here too, but that ended in the thread being closed lol).
You will be able to take advantage of the goodwill and strength of the majority of people, to enable you to get things back how you want them, without having to cause yourself any anxiety at all. I am freaking terrified of the vaccine, terrified, I have a life-long phobia of medicines, but will somehow be having this vaccine. I have to. I'm sure there are a LOT of people who have fears of needles, fears of medics, fears of medicine, who will also go ahead with the vaccine, despite their anxieties. You don't think many people also have 'lots of worries' ? Really ? What would happen if everyone who had 'some worries' didn't have the vaccine - tell me - what would happen ?
It absolutely drives me nuts that there are people who display avoidance of anything that potentially would help society, and throw aside the need to take any action, in favour of their own personal needs and anxieties. I get that you have fears, I truly do, what I don't understand is there is not a smidgeon of sadness that you aren't able to 'do your bit', and relish the fact that everybody else will deliver your goals to you through their actions.
I don't think you will even process what I've written to be honest.
I believe the at risk groups need this vaccine and I support this. And believe me I am very grateful for this who have went ahead and got a vaccine however I ask for respect for my personal choice I don’t need shaming or called names in the covid forum or called money bags. If I was in your shoes I would offer to persuade someone to get the vaccine in a friendly manor rather than guilt trip them how many more will die ect. We had the same issue with masks it’s now vaccines what next? If I drink alcohol I will put the nhs under stress? We live in a very liberal society these days where everybody’s view is respected. Believe it or not I respect everybody’s post here but when it goes to name calling I lose all respect.
I haven't called you any names Phil, at all!
I have respect for your personal choice, but it doesn't mean I have to agree with it. Respect goes 2 ways Phil, its not just a stream in your direction that you can choose.
You ask for respect and lose all respect for those who ask you for it? :huh:
FMP
I haven't called you any names Phil, at all!
I have respect for your personal choice, but it doesn't mean I have to agree with it. Respect goes 2 ways Phil, its not just a stream in your direction that you can choose.
My apologies but if you follow the COVID topic other members have. I wish people could have an open mind to vaccination.
ankietyjoe
05-02-21, 21:30
You ask for respect and lose all respect for those who ask you for it? :huh:
FMP
You're talking to a man who doesn't want to wear a mask, doesn't want to be vaccinated but still wants to go travelling. But is afraid of a letterbox.
I suspect you are wasting your time engaging in any of his threads.
You're talking to a man who doesn't want to wear a mask, doesn't want to be vaccinated but still wants to go travelling. But is afraid of a letterbox.
I suspect you are wasting your time engaging in any of his threads.
I hear you. I don't get into my personal situation but my wife was laid off last March and other than a seasonal job over the holidays, has not worked. I was laid off the beginning of December and the prospects of finding work at 62 years of age (ageism is very real!) are challenging at best! Both my wife and I have pre-existing conditions and can't get the vaccine right now if we wanted to! I lost an uncle to COVID and my nephew (23) caught it and is still hurting from it! Phil is bitching about traveling, wearing a mask and helping others by getting the vaccine! So forgive my vitriol. Just wish I could reach through the screen and slap him upside the head! :mad:
FMP
ankietyjoe
05-02-21, 21:51
I hear you. Just wish I could reach through the screen and slap hip upside the head! :mad:
FMP
Well, all we can do is disengage. That's what I plan to do.
Exactly avoid the topic if you don’t want to know that’s what Terry has said for weeks.
nomorepanic
05-02-21, 22:20
Enough again
Oh yes going on holiday is very good
I honestly don't understand this. My problems go with me no matter where I am. My OCD doesn't do holidays. :shrug:
I'm struggling to understand contamination issues which are severe enough for you to be taking doors off/moving house here but you are ok with planes (where it's basically Germs R Us) and hotels etc?
Doesn't matter where I go, my brain still has to check the living shit out of electricals and locks!
And, a holiday home? That totally contradicts what you've said about you being Ok in hotels because you don't have to stay there again. A holiday home is like your own home. We had a small caravan and it still took me 20 minutes (each time we left the van) to check the bugger wasn't going to burn down or be broken into. You'll be spending all your time replacing doors! First bit of foreign lingo you need to learn Phil is, 'Where can I buy a door?'
I need a lie down...
See, having been here quite a few years, I think this is about Phil's possessions and personal space being 'tainted'.
He went through a spate years ago of having an issue with clothes worn outside being in the washing basket, and changing the washing basket. Then there was the replacement of phones, and ipads which had 'picked up' things outside the home, the iron, then moving house, then changing doors, the outside bin being contaminated. He seems able to go places for short times, but once 'contaminated objects' return to the home domaine, or something happens or enters his 'controlled space' then they need 'replacing'. There was the suitcase, for example, that caused major issues before he was married, that had been on holiday and then was put on the bed (or something) by his wife. There is thread after thread in Phil's history about contamination of objects, his home, things like his mother touching his bin and letterbox, but nothing much about OCD at work or when away.
I think (and this is my opinion only of course) Phil copes with everything 'outside' by controlling his sphere of influence at home to the MAX, and he doesn't actually manage the OCD issues there (though he says that he does). Instead he is anxious, replaces, moves house, stresses all day and everyday about the encroachment of germs in his garden, on his letterbox, on his bin......and so on.
See, having been here quite a few years, I think this is about Phil's possessions and personal space being 'tainted'.
He went through a spate years ago of having an issue with clothes worn outside being in the washing basket, and changing the washing basket. Then there was the replacement of phones, and ipads which had 'picked up' things outside the home, the iron, then moving house, then changing doors, the outside bin being contaminated. He seems able to go places for short times, but once 'contaminated objects' return to the home domaine, or something happens or enters his 'controlled space' then they need 'replacing'. There was the suitcase, for example, that caused major issues before he was married, that had been on holiday and then was put on the bed (or something) by his wife. There is thread after thread in Phil's history about contamination of objects, his home, things like his mother touching his bin and letterbox, but nothing much about OCD at work or when away.
I think (and this is my opinion only of course) Phil copes with everything 'outside' by controlling his sphere of influence at home to the MAX, and he doesn't actually manage the OCD issues there (though he says that he does). Instead he is anxious, replaces, moves house, stresses all day and everyday about the encroachment of germs in his garden, on his letterbox, on his bin......and so on.
Nope. I appreciate the explanation but my brain is still spangled. Having to eat emergency supply of Dairy Milk...:ohmy:
My brain can't handle him being one way at home and another on his hols. I'm not saying it isn't so - I just don't understand it. I'd give anything to be able to go on holiday and not spoil it with my brain's inability to accept when something is turned off or locked. Then again, that's only one reason why holidays are a problem to me.. (I'm special) :D
Well, I kind of get/got it to some extent myself. I have had OCD issues throughout life which only manifested 'lightly' outside the home, but at times of anxiety, in and around the home is quite bad. Checking irons, doors, this and that over and over for example. I don't really understand why, but once at work or somewhere that wasn't 'my environment' the issues didn't seem to be there. I think some it might be that you have time to allow your mind, without distraction, to let OCD issues control you at home. (and let me be clear, I wasn't on the level Phil has got to, as I worked very hard on alleviating it, including food contamination issues and 'germs' on hands or surfaces) Also, there is an issue of 'responsibility' - by that I refer to the fact that when you are in a less isolated space, other people can check and this absolves your mind of some of the problems that you could cause. You can set up 'coping strategies' outside the home, well I could, more easily than when at home. This is wiffle now LOLOL ah well......
Maybe Phil can explain his issue, AT HOME as opposed to AWAY FROM HOME ?
Maybe Phil can explain his issue, AT HOME as opposed to AWAY FROM HOME ?
I wish he would because I haven't been this confused since my maths teacher tried to teach me long division. :scared15:
I wish he would because I haven't been this confused since my maths teacher tried to teach me long division. :scared15:
I really don't know if he or anyone actually could unless they've gotten to a point in their recovery where they can objectively look at their behavior, recognize, acknowledge and accept it for what it is or was. Think about it. The bin germ thing has been and still is a prevalent issue but he encounters more germs just going to work and there are more germs just opening a door at a store that hundreds of people have touched than the germs on his front door so go figure. Heck, the main theme I've seen on this site are the irrational and illogical train of thought and behaviors that encompass the sufferer regardless of the classification of the mental illness.
Positive thoughts
Pamplemousse
06-02-21, 12:36
Doesn't matter where I go, my brain still has to check the living shit out of electricals and locks!
Oh... you too?
Yes, the locks thing always has me counting the number of times I press the door handle to ensure it's locked; I've even got part-way to work and driven back to check and sometimes have even called neighbours to do so. As regards electricals, the presence of modern RCDs/MCBs in my home is a help but also I replaced the shite sockets installed in my kitchen during "renovations" with nice MK ones that have what are called double-pole switches. I still prefer to unplug things at night though where possible and on the rare occasions I go on holiday, I have been known to turn off the power at the fusebox - which was what people used to do, along with the water and the gas.
Some time ago I was asked why a set-top box was missing recordings, and having done a few preliminary checks on it (which involved me getting the lid off and a meter on it) I said I couldn't see any reason for it. On a subsequent occasion, I observed the owner switching off and unplugging the box and the TV. Then the penny dropped; the box wasn't getting a chance to update its guide and so it didn't know when to start its recordings...
Pamplemousse
06-02-21, 12:38
The infamous bin seems to be in close proximity to the door.
Why doesn't he just, y'know, move the bin?
The more we talk about his trash can the more I want to paint smiley faces on it!!!
Does this mean I have a problem?
Not at all..A sense of humour is a powerful tool in anxiety management:D Could work better than conventional therapy and it's free...Not sure it would be that easy here though.
Not at all..A sense of humour is a powerful tool in anxiety management:D Could work better than conventional therapy and it's free...Not sure it would be that easy here though.
LOL I was imagining it more along these lines...
https://youtu.be/T67pUa6m_y4
MyNameIsTerry
07-02-21, 00:50
Well, I kind of get/got it to some extent myself. I have had OCD issues throughout life which only manifested 'lightly' outside the home, but at times of anxiety, in and around the home is quite bad. Checking irons, doors, this and that over and over for example. I don't really understand why, but once at work or somewhere that wasn't 'my environment' the issues didn't seem to be there. I think some it might be that you have time to allow your mind, without distraction, to let OCD issues control you at home. (and let me be clear, I wasn't on the level Phil has got to, as I worked very hard on alleviating it, including food contamination issues and 'germs' on hands or surfaces) Also, there is an issue of 'responsibility' - by that I refer to the fact that when you are in a less isolated space, other people can check and this absolves your mind of some of the problems that you could cause. You can set up 'coping strategies' outside the home, well I could, more easily than when at home. This is wiffle now LOLOL ah well......
Maybe Phil can explain his issue, AT HOME as opposed to AWAY FROM HOME ?
I'll add my own perspective to this.
Initially I thought phil had issues with Contamination because it was al about toilet germs. Things that may have been splashed become dirty. That's common in Contamination themes and obvious why you would clean them and find no amount works. But as we moved onto the bin, the strimmer, the post box, etc it was obvious it was less about germs. Germs were a red herring, something I hope his therapists have picked up on.
I saw someone who was concerned with imperfection. It was just 'dirty' yet there was no concern about specific illness (there wasn't with the toilet germs either). The strimmer was dirty because it had been near the bin. We all know garden strimmer are always dirty as they cut through poo covered grass. It may be dog, cat, hedgehog, fly poo or even slug trails but it's not something you would eat your dinner off. It's as dirty as the bin and whilst he could agree this he just couldn't stop how he thought which you would expect with OCD.
The door was the same. It was about letters being dirty in some way being posted through yet the outside of doors are always dirty as they are outside. If such things were clean we would hardly ever wash our hands.
To me this was about something that had been spoiled. 'Tainted' is part of the Perfectionism issue in anxiety, especially obsessional disorders such as OCD. And it is very irrational and can be selective.
I know a guy on here who's anxiety revolves around a hobby he enjoys. He collects expensive watches. He loves buying them but when they arrive the doubts set in. Have they been spoiled in some way? Has the seller damaged it? Has he made up the quality (he buys second hand)? Has he spoiled it by being a new owner? There is nothing wrong with the watches, only his perception of them. They feel tainted, imperfect. But if you explain a second hand watch can never be perfect he can agree with you but not shake that feeling (it's only the same as why you can't shake that lump or bump, after all). Those watches are imperfect before they even get shipped out from the manufacturer because someone has handled them, someone may have tested them. Then they get knocked around in shipping and handled by multiple people.
Within this theme there is that 100% All-or-nothing thinking issue. It has to be so perfect it was made by God! It's an unrealistic expectation issue.
The minute phil replaces it he thinks it's over. Relief. Maybe even the excitement issue his therapist mentioned. But I think we have to be careful here because there is a difference between fear based disorders where you are trying to get relief as opposed to pleasure seeking addictions. Now phil has mentioned bipolar and chasing the high can be part of that. It's not in OCD. But we all know how complex we are and that none of us truly fit any narrow dictionary criteria.
Why is it selective and not applied equally as Nora asks. Why do I have various themes of OCD and yet they are rarely discussed on here? Why is this place flooded with HA OCDers and yet I have never had issues with HA? HA is within the sphere of OCD yet it never affects me? Why don't we hear of many OCDers on the HA board having intrusive violent or sexual thoughts? Some do but they are rare. I'm sure Vee has agreed with me in the past that the HA board is far more about OCD than Somatoform Disorders. The latter is less common. OCD is very common and all human beings have elements of it that just don't become a problem for them.
So, I had themes like Symmetrical Thinking. That should mean anything out of order would bother me. I didn't. Up one corner I had a pile of clothes I couldn't be bothered with and yet on my desk I had certain pens & pencils that had to be arranged in a certain way or I couldn't get past it. Why wasn't I struggling to get out of a shop because the lack of orderliness was upsetting me? Sometimes it did but for the most part it didn't. More severe sufferers might be so bad they can't go in places because of it and struggle to even leave the house.
But I think it's much deeper than this. What drives us to do certain things? Why aren't we all the same? Why are we drawn to certain occupations? Why do we have different ethical strengths? It must go deeper in things like our Schemas. Elements of our personality. Our identities.
We all know that science has shown how anxiety works with the same mechanisms as memory. It makes associations between neurons. We have pathways linking them. So, some of us have one bunch of neurons remembering we need to be afraid of a bin touching something. That allows for the bin to trigger the fear. But what put it there it complex.
It can and will grow. I saw many of my themes expand and overlap. I found myself have my usual touch until it feels 'just right' but with counting in multiples, odd & even numbers, even intrusive violent thoughts, etc. When you read about OCD is explains these as distinct issues. They are not. But it would be pretty complicated to explain all the overlaps and is there even a real reason they collide? One for the brain boxes to tell us.
This is why I regard sufferers as narrow. They often don't look objectively at anxiety as a whole. This is why some people have said why should a cup or saucer not matching or used for a certain drink on a certain day make you feel fear? The HA board dominates this forum, it did when I joined, and maybe people are biased towards it? This is why we need to remain open minded. That lump that you think is cancer is no more lethal to you than phil's bin is to him yet people have struggled to get that because - cancer is lethal. Yeah, but not having cancer isn't. The level of fear you feel is not above what non lethal anxiety fears are.
One-Day-At-A-Time
07-02-21, 03:06
@MyNameIsTerry - An amazing post and such a relieif that someone finally understood the complexities of OCD and could see beyond a 'one size fits all' narrative. Gives hope to a fellow sufferer who was beginning to despair at the tone of some previous posts.
Interesting post, Terry. I do say that most of our people have HA due to OCD, secondary PTSD, tertiary a combination of the two. Not that I'm a psychologist, it's just my opinion. I only have good friends with OCD. I know what it's like to live with someone with OCD, but I've never had it myself, so I do appreciate your insight.
Do we know what Phil's diagnoses are? Has OCD been confirmed by a doc? Or bipolar? He doesn't seem bipolar to me, but it's not as if any of us see each other in person.
MyNameIsTerry
07-02-21, 06:08
Interesting post, Terry. I do say that most of our people have HA due to OCD, secondary PTSD, tertiary a combination of the two. Not that I'm a psychologist, it's just my opinion. I only have good friends with OCD. I know what it's like to live with someone with OCD, but I've never had it myself, so I do appreciate your insight.
Do we know what Phil's diagnoses are? Has OCD been confirmed by a doc? Or bipolar? He doesn't seem bipolar to me, but it's not as if any of us see each other in person.
I think its unclear. He has mentioned he sees a psychiatrist which is connected to an earlier episode and not for anxiety. Not sure where the OCD came from but given the behaviours & intensity are there it's very likely. Not OCPD though.
I've been down the bipolar research route myself to find it's much more complex than we may realise until we read about cyclical type disorders in the Mood Disorders category. I used to have many mood swings but not to the point of what I believed bipolar to be. Down I would expect, depression is common in anxiety, but I had ups too. I would splurg. It gave me something. So I wondered if that mapped to the up swings in bipolar, the risk taking side (I know others with OCD who have had periods of risk taking too). I wondered whether I had one of the less intense forms where swings occur more frequently. But in the end I tracked it all starting to when I started a med and with some Omega 3 self treatment managed to balance my moods (took over a year).
So getting a high from buying a new door is something I question with phil. We can all see it's not the thrill chasing the therapist suggested but an action to create some form of relief. That's more anxiety disorder.
He doesn't seem bipolar to me either but we've never fully understood why a psychiatrist is still monitoring him years later. You can't get them to see you over here.
I have noticed phil tends to talk about having anxiety, OCD and occasionally bipolar. He says the OCD is more in control and it's the anxiety that bothers him. I question this as his threads are OCD, the behaviours and possible solutions are all there. So I think he has some confusion there. Does he mean GAD by anxiety? I wouldn't say these threads demonstrate that more than OCD, which is not to say he doesn't have that too.
MyNameIsTerry
07-02-21, 06:32
@MyNameIsTerry - An amazing post and such a relieif that someone finally understood the complexities of OCD and could see beyond a 'one size fits all' narrative. Gives hope to a fellow sufferer who was beginning to despair at the tone of some previous posts.
Thanks. Glad if something I said helps.
I know what you mean because early on I was confused about what was happening to me. It seems like I was losing my mind. But I didn't know OCD could have all these themes. I was guilty if only knowing the garbage the media put out which was always about washing, cleaning, hoarding, checking, etc. So when I was experiencing things like tics I had no idea why. Violent intrusive thoughts make you instantly think of violent criminals we read about. The endless checking and re-reading felt like I wasn't in control of myself.
Then I started reading about it and a lot made sense. I was lucky to drop on some websites talking about these issues and listing many examples. I looked at these and saw some of my own. So I thought if some are there perhaps that's all this is. It really helped me to learn to accept it.
I didn't mention above, when talking about selectivity, how OCD looks to keep itself alive by choosing our Achilles Heel. It's why the parent or the school teacher may have violent or sexually intrusive thoughts about children. It's their weak spot because they care so much about them. What I read explained this. And I've seen people on here with just that problem and they all have strong moral codes towards children. Vee is a teacher and from speaking to her I have no doubt she is excellent at her job and she cares about her pupils. For some, that's a way in for anxiety and it's naturally terrifying therefore an excellent way for a disorder to keep itself alive. What would be more frightening? What would be the point of an intrusive thought about some low level issue you can easily dismiss? How can it stay alive without stoking that fire up?
If it was across the board why would one person worry about the oven being on but not about the one in the canteen they just left? It's about importance, to you.
Even then you can be forced out of it. A stronger concern can override it. For instance, back then I could stand doing my compulsions for some time but if someone came over I stopped. Why? Because I felt it so embarrassing and that was worse to me than carrying on at that time. It broke the chain for me.
We often read how the OCD cycle should work. But does it? So why would I feel no amount if relief sometimes? My anxiety was just too high and repeated compulsions only frustrated me which leads to more negative feelings & emotions which just increase physical symptoms.
Why did I start to experience 'liking' my thoughts or how bad I felt? I know plenty of people who have been through that too. Once you read about 'backdoor spike' you get a sense that's it's not always going to cycle the same way. Accepting feeling happy with a bad thought isn't being happy about the content. It's a way to stop feeding the loop with negativity. But initially you feel terrible because it makes you question whether you are slipping into that monster you feel. Was he there all the time and now he is emerging? Nope, monsters don't care or enjoy their crimes without all this doubt and fear. It's just part of OCD. If you think about it how can you ever recover if you don't stop reacting with negatives? And why would therapists use these techniques to change or reduce our reactions if they weren't safe and created monsters?
(BTW I'm not suggesting Vee has or will. She has told us she is a teacher and from her empathy for the issues young people face, demonstrated across many threads, she is a good example of the kind of deep, strong moral code you would want in a teacher. So I hope she doesn't mind me saying this).
An amazing post and such a relieif that someone finally understood the complexities of OCD and could see beyond a 'one size fits all' narrative. Gives hope to a fellow sufferer who was beginning to despair at the tone of some previous posts.
I totally agree, and thank you for taking the time to make it Terry. Thanks for reminding us, and opening thoughts on the far more complex situation that exists here, for Phil and each one of us, with a range of such individual differences that makes each person unique. Some very interesting points made about the comparisons from HA to other anxiety type sufferers ! I don't have the selective perfectionism side of things, but someone in my family does very badly, so did recognise it as something Phil had going on there.
My daughter has the selective perfectionism "version" of it too. The burden of responsibility plays a big part and the fear of being blamed if things are not perfect and there are terrible repercussions on others. It's taken off big time since my son's illness.
From my own experience I'd say that most psychologists are pretty much out of their depth with complex OCD behaviours and psychiatric assessments and diagnoses depend on the level of expertise of the psychiatrist. A flawed diagnosis can be so damaging.
Oh... you too?
Yes, the locks thing always has me counting the number of times I press the door handle to ensure it's locked; I've even got part-way to work and driven back to check and sometimes have even called neighbours to do so. As regards electricals, the presence of modern RCDs/MCBs in my home is a help but also I replaced the shite sockets installed in my kitchen during "renovations" with nice MK ones that have what are called double-pole switches. I still prefer to unplug things at night though where possible and on the rare occasions I go on holiday, I have been known to turn off the power at the fusebox - which was what people used to do, along with the water and the gas.
Yes, it's my predominant OCD 'thing' and it drives my husband NUTS!
When my anxiety was high (first marriage) my OCD went orbital - contamination, checking - thinking I'd run someone over despite there being nobody there. :scared15: It was horrible. If I had to go out and leave the dogs - I taped up the knobs on the gas cooker so they couldn't be accidentally turned on, turned off electricals (TV etc). The reason I don't have gas cookers now is because I can easily turn an electric one off.
I've done the contaminations (spent more time cleaning on holidays than anything else) and I rearrange stuff in holiday cottages so it's more symmetrical. One year, the first thing I did on arrival was to sort the bookcase out! It's not about things 'looking ok'. It's what happens inside my head (anxiety) if things are messy or unbalanced. I do understand Phil and his germ problem. What I can't understand is why this doesn't affect him the same way regardless of where he is. I'm actually quite envious that he has this capacity?
Why is it selective and not applied equally as Nora asks. Why do I have various themes of OCD and yet they are rarely discussed on here? Why is this place flooded with HA OCDers and yet I have never had issues with HA? HA is within the sphere of OCD yet it never affects me? Why don't we hear of many OCDers on the HA board having intrusive violent or sexual thoughts? Some do but they are rare. I'm sure Vee has agreed with me in the past that the HA board is far more about OCD than Somatoform Disorders. The latter is less common. OCD is very common and all human beings have elements of it that just don't become a problem for them.
So, I had themes like Symmetrical Thinking. That should mean anything out of order would bother me. I didn't. Up one corner I had a pile of clothes I couldn't be bothered with and yet on my desk I had certain pens & pencils that had to be arranged in a certain way or I couldn't get past it. Why wasn't I struggling to get out of a shop because the lack of orderliness was upsetting me? Sometimes it did but for the most part it didn't. More severe sufferers might be so bad they can't go in places because of it and struggle to even leave the house.
I do the symmetrical thing, but, again, it affects me no matter where I am.
I wonder if autism might be the difference with me? I might have to get my books out and research autism and OCD..
Do they still do lobotomies? :scared15:
Interesting post though Terry!
An excellent post, Terry, which has given us lots to think about.
I just read it myself, Terry. Very insightful and helpful. Thank u :)
I think its unclear. He has mentioned he sees a psychiatrist which is connected to an earlier episode and not for anxiety. Not sure where the OCD came from but given the behaviours & intensity are there it's very likely. Not OCPD though.
I've been down the bipolar research route myself to find it's much more complex than we may realise until we read about cyclical type disorders in the Mood Disorders category. I used to have many mood swings but not to the point of what I believed bipolar to be. Down I would expect, depression is common in anxiety, but I had ups too. I would splurg. It gave me something. So I wondered if that mapped to the up swings in bipolar, the risk taking side (I know others with OCD who have had periods of risk taking too). I wondered whether I had one of the less intense forms where swings occur more frequently. But in the end I tracked it all starting to when I started a med and with some Omega 3 self treatment managed to balance my moods (took over a year).
So getting a high from buying a new door is something I question with phil. We can all see it's not the thrill chasing the therapist suggested but an action to create some form of relief. That's more anxiety disorder.
He doesn't seem bipolar to me either but we've never fully understood why a psychiatrist is still monitoring him years later. You can't get them to see you over here.
I have noticed phil tends to talk about having anxiety, OCD and occasionally bipolar. He says the OCD is more in control and it's the anxiety that bothers him. I question this as his threads are OCD, the behaviours and possible solutions are all there. So I think he has some confusion there. Does he mean GAD by anxiety? I wouldn't say these threads demonstrate that more than OCD, which is not to say he doesn't have that too.
In Phil, I see symptoms of NPD, GAD, and OCD. But again, this is based on online posting, and I'm not a psych. I'm just a problem solver by nature, so for me, getting a diagnosis is the first step to dealing with your problems. It's like, let's figure out what we're dealing with and then make a game plan to fix it. It's hard for me to accept that others are not like that. In fact, many others that post on here don't plan to ever work on their issues. Venting here about their issues is all they are ever going to do, and it sounds like Phil is one of them. To me, venting helps, but it isn't enough. I"m a "take the bull by the horns" kind of person.
And I don't take your teacher comments as a dig on me. I understand what you're trying to say. I feel like I understand OCD pretty well, as much as an outsider can, by living with a friend/roommate with it for several years, but I do not understand some versions of it like POCD or HOCD. The POCD gives me the heebie geebies and makes me sick to my stomach to listen to any of it, and the HOCD makes me angry because being LGBTQ shouldn't be thought of as wrong, to me. But those are my limitations, and I stay off those threads/boards.
As a kid who suffered with GAD and depression, and who was labeled in special education as a kid, I think it's very important that we have teachers who know what they're doing and are willing to work with kids who have mental health issues. It's one of the reasons I do what I do.
MyNameIsTerry
08-02-21, 06:38
In Phil, I see symptoms of NPD, GAD, and OCD. But again, this is based on online posting, and I'm not a psych. I'm just a problem solver by nature, so for me, getting a diagnosis is the first step to dealing with your problems. It's like, let's figure out what we're dealing with and then make a game plan to fix it. It's hard for me to accept that others are not like that. In fact, many others that post on here don't plan to ever work on their issues. Venting here about their issues is all they are ever going to do, and it sounds like Phil is one of them. To me, venting helps, but it isn't enough. I"m a "take the bull by the horns" kind of person.
And I don't take your teacher comments as a dig on me. I understand what you're trying to say. I feel like I understand OCD pretty well, as much as an outsider can, by living with a friend/roommate with it for several years, but I do not understand some versions of it like POCD or HOCD. The POCD gives me the heebie geebies and makes me sick to my stomach to listen to any of it, and the HOCD makes me angry because being LGBTQ shouldn't be thought of as wrong, to me. But those are my limitations, and I stay off those threads/boards.
As a kid who suffered with GAD and depression, and who was labeled in special education as a kid, I think it's very important that we have teachers who know what they're doing and are willing to work with kids who have mental health issues. It's one of the reasons I do what I do.
Yes, HOCD gets twisted up with homophobia sometimes but they're nothing alike. However what is to stop someone already homophobic with OCD experiencing it? Achilles Heel after all.
HOCD goes both ways so gay/bi people fear being straight. That could be argued as heterophobia, something science doesn't seem to have decided on yet, since there's nothing wrong with being straight either. The only difference is the history of oppression of LGBT+ (trans gets it's own OCD theme though and that one must be complicated for someone who has already transitioned, or even hasn't, given the confusion it can bring for some).
But we have to talk in anxiety disorder terms to avoid bias. My experience of HOCD people on here has been they have no issue with anyone else being xyz just not them. Now if you applied that to someone who is gay you could easily see how they have a strong understanding of their sexuality since they've had to do a lot of work against a world stacked against them. It's easy being hetero by comparison, you're just there and that's all the thought needed. So, someone gay having intrusive thoughts that question their identity is a big thing surely?
In OCD terms the same patterns are there for the straight person. Some on here have gay friends. And vice versa.
I think the homophobe wouldn't be so liberal.
There is even the problem of things like religion. They may have been taught it's wrong so it's another Achilles Heel issue but not the same as someone who sees it as completely normal.
The OCD is using some part of your identity that is important to you because it evokes maximum response. We are used to the 'am I going mad' stuff on here but perhaps less so the 'am I losing my morality' (themes like POCD, Harm Based OCD) or 'are my values changing'.
There's an excellent thread on the OCD board by Beatroon about HOCD and how it differs to true sexuality from her perspective. As a gay woman she explains the differences.
Like you I like to have a plan. I look for tools & techniques. The hard bit is always using them though. But because I had violent intrusive thoughts about my parents I had to learn about this side. I'm not a violent person and love my parents to bits. I've known plenty of violent people though.
Themes like POCD are very emotive. Some sufferers on here have been brave enough to talk about it and some have been jumped on out of ignorance. But it's no different to something like Harm Based OCD, if you perpetrated some of the thoughts I had the sentence would be even higher, the same things are there. It focussed on my parents because I love them so much. Same for the parent having such horrible thoughts about their kids, the thing in life they love most.
I've always tried not to get emotionally involved in threads; treat them like a customer query. It lets me keep a distance which is useful when talking about certain themes.
MyNameIsTerry
08-02-21, 06:46
I totally agree, and thank you for taking the time to make it Terry. Thanks for reminding us, and opening thoughts on the far more complex situation that exists here, for Phil and each one of us, with a range of such individual differences that makes each person unique. Some very interesting points made about the comparisons from HA to other anxiety type sufferers ! I don't have the selective perfectionism side of things, but someone in my family does very badly, so did recognise it as something Phil had going on there.
An excellent post, Terry, which has given us lots to think about.
I just read it myself, Terry. Very insightful and helpful. Thank u :)
Thanks guys, your kind words are very much appreciated :hugs:
MyNameIsTerry
08-02-21, 07:00
I do the symmetrical thing, but, again, it affects me no matter where I am.
I wonder if autism might be the difference with me? I might have to get my books out and research autism and OCD..
Do they still do lobotomies? :scared15:
Interesting post though Terry!
If they do fancy a NMP day trip? :roflmao:
Maybe it is, autism is far more impacting? The strictness people like pulisa have explained goes well beyond OCD and having both is going to be really tough. Pulisa would understand more, I know little compared to you guys and she also knows how little the professionals seem to understand such a complex combination.
Some OCDers on here have one theme and that's it. It torments them at fever pitch. Others have more themes. I'm in the latter camp but not all themes upset me as much. The dominant ones took much more work whilst reducing my overall levels of anxiety saw others melt away.
Like I mentioned about deep programming, imagine someone who is quite controlling then finding OCD comes along. They are going to have very intense obsessions and/or compulsions.
I strongly suspect reassurance seekers are more likely to do that outside of their anxiety. I'm more avoidant and I didn't have issues with reassurance seeking.
I think this because managing staff showed me how some people need more support than others. Some lack confidence and need a backup to say they are correct. Some needed 'stroking', which we coined, because it was more about ego or feeling good than reassurance or relief.
Take someone lacking in confidence, give them HA and is it any wonder they struggle so much asking for reassurance? (Struggle to ask and/or struggle to stop asking). Now take someone who always liked the attention, the buzz of others saying well done, and give them HA. They still suffer anxiety but are they having to battle other faulty programming?
I think this because managing staff showed me how some people need more support than others. Some lack confidence and need a backup to say they are correct. Some needed 'stroking', which we coined, because it was more about ego or feeling good than reassurance or relief.
Hubs is a manager and says the same thing whereas I tend to treat people the same, regardless. I'd make a really shit manager. :whistles:
I recently suggested that someone to lose their avatar and username because it's a visual reminder of what they 'allegedly' don't want to be, but maybe that person is someone who needs to be 'stroked'? That said, it seems to be the case that some people actually want to be the way they are with HA because it serves them to do so. All I know is how badly I wanted out of that particular hell hole and I struggle to comprehend why everybody isn't like me? But then, that's been a lifelong issue. :ohmy:
Autism & OCD is a lot more complex because autism makes everything more complex. I tried to work out when the checking started and I think it was when I moved in with my boyfriend when I was 16. Contamination kicked in when I was pregnant and going through an intensely stressful time in my marriage. I was scrubbing the house (and myself) all day long but it was never clean enough. Nor was I. My need for symmetry goes back as far as I can remember. I remember being told off for 'messing' with stuff at my nan's house, but I was rearranging things so that they were right for my brain- not that I could verbalise that. I just stood in the corner as I was told to do. I spent a lot of time in the corner tbh - but without understanding why I was there. Best 'punishment' was being sent to my room. You show me an autistic kid who doesn't love being in their bedroom? :roflmao:
Mum: Go to your room madam and think about what you've done!
Me: :yahoo:
Maybe it's the case that the checking is OCD but the rearranging/symmetry is autism? Only, making things symmetrical calms me down - whereas my checking goes the other way. Some days I shout at myself when I'm going upstairs for the 5th time - even after holding a plug in my hand to let my brain know it's been removed. If I get distracted during the routine, I have to do it all again. :scared15:
Some days I shout at myself when I'm going upstairs for the 5th time - even after holding a plug in my hand to let my brain know it's been removed. If I get distracted
This could be me writing that !!!! :roflmao:
My daughter arranged stuff from the word go..Especially lining things up but the symmetry thing started later when her OCD and hair pulling took off at 10. The Maudsley were very clear that she has a dual diagnosis and that her rituals weren't associated with her ASD but just made things more rigid.
My son used to line up toy washing machines (his thing) and I had to carry 4 of these things around with me..even on the train so I got a lot of funny looks! He always liked the look of lines and circles (washing machine drum/ Captain Scarlet spectrum symbol) but I saw this as ASD.
It's a complicated business..
This could be me writing that !!!! :roflmao:
Me too...:D I hate plugs and switches!
My son used to line up toy washing machines (his thing) and I had to carry 4 of these things around with me..even on the train so I got a lot of funny looks! He always liked the look of lines and circles (washing machine drum/ Captain Scarlet spectrum symbol) but I saw this as ASD.
It's a complicated business..
My son did the lining things up. Then he had a thing about numbers. It took us forever to get to nursery as we had to read out door numbers and car registrations - anything with a number on it! All his drawings at nursery had numbers on...
My daughter liked number 8 so we had the door number thing too...Also we had a load of number stickers on the back of my car..People thought it was code or something out of "A Beautiful Mind" but no...It was just the house numbers of her school friends..
Pamplemousse
08-02-21, 18:39
Me too...:D I hate plugs and switches!
Apart from the need to address this properly, perhaps what you need is to replace all your sockets with unswitched ones - then to make sure they're isolated you don't have a switch you can forget but have to physically withdraw the plug from the socket.
Some of us are old enough to remember the old TV closedown message that reminded people to switch off and unplug their television at night!!
Apart from the need to address this properly, perhaps what you need is to replace all your sockets with unswitched ones - then to make sure they're isolated you don't have a switch you can forget but have to physically withdraw the plug from the socket.
Some of us are old enough to remember the old TV closedown message that reminded people to switch off and unplug their television at night!!
I think most TV sets in those days posed a much greater fire hazard because of the internal components used (CRT, thermionic valves, etc), unlike today's sets which are mostly solid state electronics, though still best unplugged whilst away on holiday, etc, as I don't think any electrical appliance is ever 100 per cent safe when left plugged in unattended for lengthy periods.
Pamplemousse
09-02-21, 18:11
I think most TV sets in those days posed a much greater fire hazard because of the internal components used (CRT, thermionic valves, etc), unlike today's sets which are mostly solid state electronics, though still best unplugged whilst away on holiday, etc, as I don't think any electrical appliance is ever 100 per cent safe when left plugged in unattended for lengthy periods.
There were sets back then that genuinely did catch fire. Later on they had to be made of materials that were fire-retardant - I fixed a transistorised black and white for a great-aunt that burnt a huge hole in its circuit board. Some early colour TVs used to catch fire in fault condition and the manufacturer issued what can best be described as a "Davy Lamp" to shield the offending component.
There were sets back then that genuinely did catch fire. Later on they had to be made of materials that were fire-retardant - I fixed a transistorised black and white for a great-aunt that burnt a huge hole in its circuit board. Some early colour TVs used to catch fire in fault condition and the manufacturer issued what can best be described as a "Davy Lamp" to shield the offending component.
I know I'm bumping a thread that's a few weeks old now, but I read somewhere that certain TV sets from the Bush brand back in the 70s were particularly problematic and susceptible to catching fire, often earning them the nickname 'Burning Bushes'!!
Pamplemousse
31-03-21, 23:17
I know I'm bumping a thread that's a few weeks old now, but I read somewhere that certain TV sets from the Bush brand back in the 70s were particularly problematic and susceptible to catching fire, often earning them the nickname 'Burning Bushes'!!
That's right - the Bush CTV25, their first colour TV. This was the set that had the "Davy Lamp" mod fitted around the line/EHT transformer and associated equipment.
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