View Full Version : AstraZeneca vaccine halted
I had the AZ vaccine 11 days ago, I was really worried about having it done but decided to go ahead. Now all I'm seeing is about the vaccine being halted in a number of countries because of a possible link to blood clotting disorders. My health anxiety is in overdrive now.
My mental health has been shocking for the last 5 years and I am currently signed off work with anxiety and depression. I am trying to rationalise but the feelings of doom are starting to take over
glassgirlw
15-03-21, 10:43
I don’t know too much about the AZ vaccine as I haven’t researched it. But if you look on the forum for a thread titled “The Vaccine” - the last post on there is from Terry in response to someone else’s worry about this same thing. Have a look, it might help you!
I had the AZ vaccine 11 days ago, I was really worried about having it done but decided to go ahead. Now all I'm seeing is about the vaccine being halted in a number of countries because of a possible link to blood clotting disorders. My health anxiety is in overdrive now.
My mental health has been shocking for the last 5 years and I am currently signed off work with anxiety and depression. I am trying to rationalise but the feelings of doom are starting to take over
It's already been said that there is no concrete evidence of the Oxford AZ vaccine causing blood clots, and it's widely believed to be coincidental.
My dad had said vaccine at the beginning of Feb and so far no signs of such issues with him.
Of course the media as per usual have been hyping it all up way out of proportion, which is pretty much par for the course anyway, as they have always loved scaring people into parting with their £s!
Plus it's perfect fodder for the die-hard antivaxxers and so they can gleefully proclaim 'I told you so'!!
ankietyjoe
15-03-21, 12:15
This is hyper vigilant precaution.
It has already been shown that case numbers for clotting is actually lower per million than would be expected in the general population anyway, so another interpretation of the data could show that the vaccine actually lowers clotting.
I have nothing to add to what others said above, good clear logical advice. I am TERRIFIED of medication of any sort (but not needles oddly enough, just what comes out of the needles lol) and also saw the countries withdrawing it on the news before leaving - to get my AZ vaccine earlier this am. :) For you its been 11 days - 11 whole days - that in itself would speak volumes. I go by trusting medical professionals in the country I reside in, and they said its all good.
Bravo, Carys. And bravo for going ahead and getting your precious vaccine.
It's been 11 days, Rainbow. Why on earth are you feeling doomed? My son has had the AZ vaccine and he's absolutely fine despite having a whole load of health problems.
You can choose to leap on this blood clot "link" or you can be grateful that you've had your jab and are fine.
Blood clots are a big factor in Covid so I know I'd be grateful that I'd had the jab.
MyNameIsTerry
15-03-21, 15:41
Over a month since my mum had the AZ vaccine. She's awaiting her 2nd dose in the next few weeks.
Beware the politics over Covid. The EMA aren't suspending it but individual countries are plus some non EU ones. Most of these countries we are in a bitter argument with and some rubbished AZ from the start for little reason. I find it all quite suspicious when, as Joe says, it's not an unusual statistic.
MyNameIsTerry
15-03-21, 16:05
Have a read of this Scottish media report:
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19160491.astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-side-effects---concerned-reports-blood-clots/?utm_medium=referral&ref=rss&utm_source=upday
Even WHO agree based monitoring the EMA.
Note statements about how blood clotting events are lower than expected in normal population.
Note the EMA stating 30 cases (out of 5 million) have been found yet the reports in the media are all talkingbahout 4 in Norway, 2 in Austria, 2 in Italy. Note how some are unconfirmed. Why are countries focussing on 4 cases in Norway when there are higher numbers? Norway have not found a causal link so it's unclear why those 4 cases seem to be more important that 30 across the EU. What is this "new information" that some countries are saying they have received when the wider medical community don't appear to know about it?
Note the UK has administered 10 million jabs of this with out an issue. And this is more relevant to you.
Note the company itself saying this is not extraordinary and no causal link has been established despite administration of 17 million doses.
Have a read of this Scottish media report:
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19160491.astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-side-effects---concerned-reports-blood-clots/?utm_medium=referral&ref=rss&utm_source=upday
Even WHO agree based monitoring the EMA.
Note statements about how blood clotting events are lower than expected in normal population.
Note the EMA stating 30 cases (out of 5 million) have been found yet the reports in the media are all talkingbahout 4 in Norway, 2 in Austria, 2 in Italy. Note how some are unconfirmed. Why are countries focussing on 4 cases in Norway when there are higher numbers? Norway have not found a causal link so it's unclear why those 4 cases seem to be more important that 30 across the EU. What is this "new information" that some countries are saying they have received when the wider medical community don't appear to know about it?
Note the UK has administered 10 million jabs of this with out an issue. And this is more relevant to you.
Note the company itself saying this is not extraordinary and no causal link has been established despite administration of 17 million doses.
Sadly much of mainland Europe have now entered their third wave of Covid, according to Dr JC's latest vid, and I have grave sympathy (no pun intended) for the more sensible majority in those nations who are still yet to be jabbed but are being denied the opportunity due to their authorities relentlessly dithering, dawdling and their heavy politicisation of it all, coupled with the die-hard antivaxxers and conspiracy theorists blatantly sticking the knife in, unlike here in Blighty (no gloating intended), we seem to be having better luck for once and are currently the third most advanced in the world jabs-wise, with over a third of our total population now jabbed, whereas usually we're the laughing stock of the world.
My BIL who's now 71 had the AZ vaccine, no problems. Brother 68 and SIL 70 both had it, no problems either.
Oxford AZ has only had 24 instances (15 confirmed, 9 speculated) with blood clots despite 17 million doses given. I'm not a math teacher or anything, but that's about the same for any other drug or vaccine.
.......and if it's less than in the normal population, that would be seen as a matter of natural course, then maybe the AZ vaccine stops some incidences happening ? �� Sorry , but this all seems like nuts to people at the moment doesn't it.
MyNameIsTerry
16-03-21, 08:39
Carys, AZ mentioned its ability in stopping clots. I wonder if they make a Big Ben sized needle we could use to inject the Palace of Westminster? Far too many clots in there...
Bravo, Carys. And bravo for going ahead and getting your precious vaccine.
It's been 11 days, Rainbow. Why on earth are you feeling doomed? My son has had the AZ vaccine and he's absolutely fine despite having a whole load of health problems.
You can choose to leap on this blood clot "link" or you can be grateful that you've had your jab and are fine.
Blood clots are a big factor in Covid so I know I'd be grateful that I'd had the jab.
I am worried because someone died 10 days after having the vaccine, I think that was in Austria. Blood clots can take a while do develop and I assume a while longer until you notice any effects of it depending on where in the body it is.
I am grateful that I have had it done but worried also.
Panicattacka
16-03-21, 10:03
If you're still wondering why all these European countries are halting the use of Astra Zeneca:
UK Government Report.
Pfizer vaccine adverse reactions
Execution date: March 4, 2021
* Blood disorders: 2,033
* Cardiac disorders: 1,032
* Congenital disorders: 3
* Hearing disorders: 713
* Endocrine disorders: 10
* Eye disorders: 1,242 (12 cases of blindness)
* Gastrointestinal disorders: 9,360
* General disorders: 26,391
* Liver disorders: 17
* Immune system disorders: 466
* Infections: 1,863
* Injuries: 393
* Continued Investigations: 965
* Metabolic disorders: 525
* Muscle-tissue disorders: 11,565
* Neoplasms: 20
* Nervous System Disorders: 16,107
* Associated with pregnancy: 29
* Psychiatric disorders: 1,235
* Renal / urinary disorder: 187
* Syst. Reproductive: 338
* Respiratory disorders: 3,575
* Skin disorder: 6,042
* Vascular disorders: 992
* Dead: 212
* Medical and Surgical Procedures: 45
* https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions
What's disturbing is this is a weekly report
Pamplemousse
16-03-21, 10:08
It's a report *updated weekly* - there is a difference. Those are cumulative results going back to the beginning of January.
Plus you've posted results for the Pfizer vaccine.
Try harder.
People have been advised to report any symptoms they have after vaccination. The vaccine programmes have now administered at least one dose to around 25 million people in the UK alone. Of those vaccinated, 99% of them are either over 50 or already suffer from underlying conditions.
So let me ask you. Is it uncommon for people over the age of 50 to suffer from some form of health complaint, with or without the vaccine? Is it now a case that every symptom, every discomfort and every disorder detected in people over 50 simply MUST be because of the vaccine?
Have all other disorders and illnesses just stopped doing what they do all of a sudden? They’ve just become completely inert and it’s the vaccines that are doing all of this damage? That’s just utter nonsense, isn’t it?
When you vaccinate 25 million people of older age and with underlying conditions, and demand that they report every symptom they experience, it is utterly INEVITABLE that there will be a large reporting of incidence. If there weren’t, we’d be looking at these vaccines being an absolute wonder drug that cures and prevents every illness known to man.
It would be kind of nice if people would try and think of these things with a bit more logic rather than posting the latest “OMG DA VACCINE GUNNA FOKIN KILL US” drivel in a place full of anxiety sufferers. Get a bloody grip, seriously.
Pamplemousse
16-03-21, 10:23
What's also poor IMO is cretins blaming "the EU" here - it's individual countries choosing to exercise their right to opt out (you know, what apparently we could never do if you listen to foaming Brexiters) when the European Medicines Agency, the actual EU 'bogeyman' says the AZ vaccine is safe.
So let me ask you. Is it uncommon for people over the age of 50 to suffer from some form of health complaint, with or without the vaccine? Is it now a case that every symptom, every discomfort and every disorder detected in people over 50 simply MUST be because of the vaccine?
I've said this morning similar in my household, like literally ANYTHING could be attributed to it randomly - 50 people have heart attacks, 100 people have utis, 150 people get hayfever, 100 alopecia blah blah.
Panickattacka, its getting tiresome.
What's also poor IMO is cretins blaming "the EU" here - it's individual countries choosing to exercise their right to opt out (you know, what apparently we could never do if you listen to foaming Brexiters) when the European Medicines Agency, the actual EU 'bogeyman' says the AZ vaccine is safe.
Whatever the reason, when you look at the data it’s a complete over reaction by many. It is a note of genuine puzzlement to me why they’d halt the AZ vaccine when the incidence of DVT’s is at exactly the same level as other vaccines being administered. If they’ve got some other data that shows the AZ vaccine is of more concern in this regard, let’s see it.
Pamplemousse
16-03-21, 10:58
Whatever the reason, when you look at the data it’s a complete over reaction by many. It is a note of genuine puzzlement to me why they’d halt the AZ vaccine when the incidence of DVT’s is at exactly the same level as other vaccines being administered. If they’ve got some other data that shows the AZ vaccine is of more concern in this regard, let’s see it.
I couldn't agree more: causation and correlation applies here.
I suspect there's more than an element of "not invented here" going on, which I find sad: I expected better of some of the countries on that list. Either way, as Europe slides towards a third wave that hopefully we won't (and if ever there was a reason to close our borders, here it is) I can see a few disgruntled friends in my circle being narked that they'll have been vaccinated but other countries, through the actions of both their governments and citizens will remain off limits to them.
Pamplemousse
16-03-21, 10:59
I've said this morning similar in my household, like literally ANYTHING could be attributed to it randomly - 50 people have heart attacks, 100 people have utis, 150 people get hayfever, 100 alopecia blah blah.
Panickattacka, its getting tiresome.
Well said on all counts, Carys.
As I've already said: correlation and causation.
I still feel nervous around others despite my having reached three weeks after being Pfizered, but I am so glad I've had it. I can work again, and the work offers are already at a point where I'm turning some down because there are so many. I wonder how long it'll take me to adjust to not wearing a mask in proximity to others when the time comes? For another thread, maybe.
Apologies if this link has already been posted: https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/15/evidence-oxford-vaccine-blood-clots-data-causal-links
Well said on all counts, Carys.
As I've already said: correlation and causation.
I still feel nervous around others despite my having reached three weeks after being Pfizered, but I am so glad I've had it. I can work again, and the work offers are already at a point where I'm turning some down because there are so many. I wonder how long it'll take me to adjust to not wearing a mask in proximity to others when the time comes? For another thread, maybe.
Apologies if this link has already been posted: https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/15/evidence-oxford-vaccine-blood-clots-data-causal-links
Some very interesting commentary in that article.
Alas, it probably won't change the minds of those who continue to revel in misinformation/fake news, particularly those who get kicks out of all the excitement and tribalistic nature of it all!!
MyNameIsTerry
16-03-21, 14:58
I am worried because someone died 10 days after having the vaccine, I think that was in Austria. Blood clots can take a while do develop and I assume a while longer until you notice any effects of it depending on where in the body it is.
I am grateful that I have had it done but worried also.
Nearly 17m people haven't had that reaction though. So it's quite rare just like so many health worries in anxiety.
MyNameIsTerry
16-03-21, 15:05
If you're still wondering why all these European countries are halting the use of Astra Zeneca:
UK Government Report.
Pfizer vaccine adverse reactions
Execution date: March 4, 2021
* Blood disorders: 2,033
* Cardiac disorders: 1,032
* Congenital disorders: 3
* Hearing disorders: 713
* Endocrine disorders: 10
* Eye disorders: 1,242 (12 cases of blindness)
* Gastrointestinal disorders: 9,360
* General disorders: 26,391
* Liver disorders: 17
* Immune system disorders: 466
* Infections: 1,863
* Injuries: 393
* Continued Investigations: 965
* Metabolic disorders: 525
* Muscle-tissue disorders: 11,565
* Neoplasms: 20
* Nervous System Disorders: 16,107
* Associated with pregnancy: 29
* Psychiatric disorders: 1,235
* Renal / urinary disorder: 187
* Syst. Reproductive: 338
* Respiratory disorders: 3,575
* Skin disorder: 6,042
* Vascular disorders: 992
* Dead: 212
* Medical and Surgical Procedures: 45
* https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions
What's disturbing is this is a weekly report
That's the Yellow Card Scheme. They ask us to report absolutely everything just in case..
If you look at the list of these side effects in other drugs you will see similar. They are then split into categories of 1 in 100, 1 in 1000, unknown, etc. There will be categories to report to doctors and ones saying it's no big deal. No big deal might include some itchy skin.
The MHRA have already told people to stop looking at this and worrying.
And no, they aren't halting it because of that. For one, that's Pfizer which they are happily still using. Two, they are bothered by a tiny reporting issue of clotting and not all the other, much more numerous stuff on the list you've posted.
How many of us even bother reporting? I haven't reported my mum's side effects. Have you all been reporting your cold-like side effects from flu jabs for years? Can't say I have.
MyNameIsTerry
16-03-21, 15:12
Whatever the reason, when you look at the data it’s a complete over reaction by many. It is a note of genuine puzzlement to me why they’d halt the AZ vaccine when the incidence of DVT’s is at exactly the same level as other vaccines being administered. If they’ve got some other data that shows the AZ vaccine is of more concern in this regard, let’s see it.
Yes, let's see it. Ireland pointed out they heard something about the deaths in Norway after which caused them to take action. What information? The rest of the world don't appear privy to it
MyNameIsTerry
16-03-21, 15:12
Well said on all counts, Carys.
As I've already said: correlation and causation.
I still feel nervous around others despite my having reached three weeks after being Pfizered, but I am so glad I've had it. I can work again, and the work offers are already at a point where I'm turning some down because there are so many. I wonder how long it'll take me to adjust to not wearing a mask in proximity to others when the time comes? For another thread, maybe.
Apologies if this link has already been posted: https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/15/evidence-oxford-vaccine-blood-clots-data-causal-links
Glad to here your work is back on track. A massive relief for you and so many in the same boat after such a tough year. :yesyes::yahoo:
Pamplemousse
16-03-21, 15:33
Glad to here your work is back on track. A massive relief for you and so many in the sake boat after such a tough year. :yesyes::yahoo:
Thanks Terry, it's much appreciated.
With the anniversary of my wife's death approaching it's good to have a little distraction but I drew the line at working on the anniversary of her death, so turned that offer down. It all helps toward paying off the Business Bounceback loan early too.
Apropos reporting of vaccine side effects - my brother did after he was awoken a night or two afterwards with a rapid heartbeart of about 120, which he can get up to in his workouts anyway.
Turns out that... yep, it's a known side-effect of the AZ vaccine. Is he bothered? No. He just wants to be able to play with his grand-children again.
Now you've all done it :lac: The teacher is here to give her lecture :p
Correlation is NOT causation. That means just because a variable and an outcome are linked together, it does NOT mean that one variable caused the outcome. It is very hard to prove a causation because there is no way to isolate all other variables, even in lab experiments. That's why all of our mental illnesses on here do not have one recognized, definitive cause. That's why it took so long to show that smoking causes lung cancer. Even when we know the causes of some conditions, chances are it's not a 100% correlation; it's just close and approaching that number.
Those 24 people who got clots could have easily developed them anyway without getting the vaccine.
Plus, the list panicattacka posted was for the Pfizer vaccine. And again, those conditions could have happened without the vaccine. We don't know. They're only weak correlations at this point.
Pamplemousse
16-03-21, 19:47
I'd have hoped that correlation =/ causation was obvious from what I'd previously posted, Vee: after all, there are two types of people that can extrapolate from incomplete data:
1: Those who can
There's now reports of people jumping to OTT conclusions and calling Oxford AZ a 'killer' vaccine, and the Kremlin in Russia are now spewing out bats**t crazy conspiracy theories about it, according to the BBC website.
Seriously, what's the world coming to of late?
It's not a very nice world, is it, Lenco? Plenty of opinionated, aggressive people and not much kindness or respect despite all the mental health hype.
So in the absence of data to suggest the AZ vaccine is any different to the other covid vaccines, what's really going on? It can only be political surely. What we're seeing is the country that wanted out of the EU has managed to vaccinate nearly half of its population. And with its own vaccine to boot.
Meanwhile the EU is too busy arguing amongst itself to get any of its people jabbed. Despite having a perfectly good vaccine that unfortunately was designed by 'perfidious Albion' across the water. Could it really be as simple as that?
It's not a very nice world, is it, Lenco? Plenty of opinionated, aggressive people and not much kindness or respect despite all the mental health hype.
You're dead right Pulisa.
And those opinionated, ignorant individuals probably harp on about there being 'no such thing as mental health problems' when they were younger.
That thing on the BBC website earlier about the Kremlin reportedly sticking the knife in over the Oxford AZ vaccine and calling it a 'killer' vaccine has disappeared now, it was in the live 'rolling' section.
Still disturbing stuff though, especially if there may be clues of potential sabre-rattling. And all to do with poxy misinformation over a vaccine which is seriously meant to be one of our saviours!!
It does seem that certain individuals are seriously trying to 'engineer' a crisis that doesn't really exist.
Cue the emergence of the Sputnik as the vaccine to end all vaccines..?
Cue the emergence of the Sputnik as the vaccine to end all vaccines..?
Yeah, it's just all getting beyond silly now!!
PM, it's my job to help the ignorant... ;)
The only vaccine that will take over the world is the one I make :lac: People are so impatient nowadays...
MyNameIsTerry
16-03-21, 21:39
You're dead right Pulisa.
And those opinionated, ignorant individuals probably harp on about there being 'no such thing as mental health problems' when they were younger.
That thing on the BBC website earlier about the Kremlin reportedly sticking the knife in over the Oxford AZ vaccine and calling it a 'killer' vaccine has disappeared now, it was in the live 'rolling' section.
Still disturbing stuff though, especially if there may be clues of potential sabre-rattling. And all to do with poxy misinformation over a vaccine which is seriously meant to be one of our saviours!!
It does seem that certain individuals are seriously trying to 'engineer' a crisis that doesn't really exist.
It's a business so our loss is their gain. I'm sure Pfizer are also very pleased as they can work on upping their market share.
To update on what I posted earlier, the EMA have said the countries halting over a specific batch have got it completely wrong as the clots have been traced back to different batches. :doh:
So maybe incompetence or false excuse making coming into play?
The EMA are due to meet on Thursday to address all this but again today they have not only stated they can see no link not the benefits far outweigh the risks. I wonder if the German health minister will respond to that?
EDIT: the International Society on Thrombosis and Hemostasis have also stated vaccination should continue.
MyNameIsTerry
16-03-21, 21:45
So in the absence of data to suggest the AZ vaccine is any different to the other covid vaccines, what's really going on? It can only be political surely. What we're seeing is the country that wanted out of the EU has managed to vaccinate nearly half of its population. And with its own vaccine to boot.
Meanwhile the EU is too busy arguing amongst itself to get any of its people jabbed. Despite having a perfectly good vaccine that unfortunately was designed by 'perfidious Albion' across the water. Could it really be as simple as that?
Relations are pretty strained and have been since 2016 so it's entirely possible. Fishing and the NIP are subject to disputes and now we are a competitor...
There is also this:
https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2021/03/16/news/astrazeneca-vaccine-world-health-experts-meet-to-review-safety-2256950/
The director general of Italy's medicines authority, Nicola Magrini, told Italian daily newspaper la Repubblica that the decision by some European countries to suspend the rollout was a "political one".
"We got to the point of a suspension because several European countries, including Germany and France, preferred to interrupt vaccinations... to put them on hold in order to carry out checks. The choice is a political one," he said, adding that the vaccine was safe.
Pamplemousse
16-03-21, 22:13
So in the absence of data to suggest the AZ vaccine is any different to the other covid vaccines, what's really going on? It can only be political surely. What we're seeing is the country that wanted out of the EU has managed to vaccinate nearly half of its population. And with its own vaccine to boot.
Meanwhile the EU is too busy arguing amongst itself to get any of its people jabbed. Despite having a perfectly good vaccine that unfortunately was designed by 'perfidious Albion' across the water. Could it really be as simple as that?
I think it's important to differentiate between "the EU" and its member states because otherwise things start to read like a foam-flecked Daily Express headline. The EMA - which is the EU body - says "carry on, the AZ vaccine is safe". It is the health agencies of individual member states that are the issue.
And whilst we may have vaccinated a sizeable chunk of our population, it's also worth remembering that our inept government has killed 125,000 of its citizens in the process of getting to that point - the most in Europe. Read and learn; https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56361599
I think it's important to differentiate between "the EU" and its member states because otherwise things start to read like a foam-flecked Daily Express headline. The EMA - which is the EU body - says "carry on, the AZ vaccine is safe". It is the health agencies of individual member states that are the issue.
And whilst we may have vaccinated a sizeable chunk of our population, it's also worth remembering that our inept government has killed 125,000 of its citizens in the process of getting to that point - the most in Europe. Read and learn; https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56361599
Yep, by having been caught napping when it all first unfolded in the UK in February-March last year!
ankietyjoe
18-03-21, 11:12
It's a business so our loss is their gain. I'm sure Pfizer are also very pleased as they can work on upping their market share.
Is it a coincidence that the vaccine that is 'the problem' is also the one not currently lining shareholders pockets with gold plated gold?
MyNameIsTerry
18-03-21, 14:36
Is it a coincidence that the vaccine that is 'the problem' is also the one not currently lining shareholders pockets with gold plated gold?
Yes, it does make you wonder. There is certainly no scientific basis for all this.
AZ now 'unhalted' - what a surprise.
Edited - that was inaccurate - there is no reason remaining for its 'halting', so lets see which countries resume, if and when.
AZ now 'unhalted' - what a surprise.
Edited - that was inaccurate - there is no reason remaining for its 'halting', so lets see which countries resume, if and when.
Italy, Latvia and Lithuania are resuming use from tomorrow. More will undoubtedly follow.
What a pointless waste of time that genuinely could have cost many people their lives. It’s also going to ensure much more vaccine hesitancy now going forward.
Less than 40 cases from 17 million doses, around the same ratio as the Pfizer/BioNtech vaccine. Someone is going to have to try harder to convince me that this isn’t political.
Absolutely unbelievable.
I haven't met anybody who can convince anybody this wasn't political.
Is it a coincidence that the vaccine that is 'the problem' is also the one not currently lining shareholders pockets with gold plated gold?I believe you've hit the nail right on the head there Joe. Also the reason why the US government (amongst others) has been stalling it. Money money money.
Italy, Latvia and Lithuania are resuming use from tomorrow. More will undoubtedly follow.
What a pointless waste of time that genuinely could have cost many people their lives. It’s also going to ensure much more vaccine hesitancy now going forward.
Less than 40 cases from 17 million doses, around the same ratio as the Pfizer/BioNtech vaccine. Someone is going to have to try harder to convince me that this isn’t political.
Absolutely unbelievable.
But at least the authorities in the nations that are resuming Oxford AZ have finally come to their senses once again, though it's still a crying shame they fell for all the hype and scaremongering over the blood clot thing, which I'm still convinced was part of some kind of agenda.
But at least the authorities in the nations that are resuming Oxford AZ have finally come to their senses once again, though it's still a crying shame they fell for all the hype and scaremongering over the blood clot thing, which I'm still convinced was part of some kind of agenda.
I have no qualm with any nation halting a vaccine if there are concerns. What I do dislike highly is the idea that the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine should always seem to be under closer scrutiny than any other vaccine which is producing almost identical safety data.
Why were these cases a concern but the cases in the other vaccines weren’t? What gives? There doesn’t seem to be any reason given for this, and I think we as a country need to start asking why this vaccine always seems to get such a hard time, only in Europe, mind, when others seem to just push through?
Pamplemousse
18-03-21, 19:11
I have no qualm with any nation halting a vaccine if there are concerns. What I do dislike highly is the idea that the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine should always seem to be under closer scrutiny than any other vaccine which is producing almost identical safety data.
Why were these cases a concern but the cases in the other vaccines weren’t? What gives? There doesn’t seem to be any reason given for this, and I think we as a country need to start asking why this vaccine always seems to get such a hard time, only in Europe, mind, when others seem to just push through?
You should listen to the German chap on Radio 4 this evening: he was very pragmatic and thoughtful about it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000t6lp - 37:42 in. (n.b. the BBC apologised for the dodgy audio)
MyNameIsTerry
18-03-21, 19:38
But at least the authorities in the nations that are resuming Oxford AZ have finally come to their senses once again, though it's still a crying shame they fell for all the hype and scaremongering over the blood clot thing, which I'm still convinced was part of some kind of agenda.
Damage may be done though. When the EMA originally licenced it certain leaders decided to give it a lukewarm response. Their people trusted their leaders and the result was empty vaccine centres and stockpiled doses. Even doctors at these centres voiced their frustration.
Then this happens. Now do their people take it when before they weren't turning up? It sounds like these leaders need to start getting a bit more positive about this. Put aside the rivalry we have with some of these countries at the moment (and the EU shenanigans still going on), the trade issues that may be linked, any bad feeling and remember this is about saving lives and getting their economies running again. Obviously there are non EU countries (but may be members of the EMA service) in EEA countries and even farther afield that have bought into this snowball effect but whatever caused their issues I have little doubt EU leaders have done this due to politics, competition and current disputes.
I think the EU Commission need to consider some form of investigation if only to get these leaders to follow the EMA they had committed to. The EMA must be frustrated with this mess.
Put your people first, that's expected of you.
I agree completely with Gary and Carys.
EDIT: I also want to add that I was impressed by the United stance taken by devolved leaders, especially Sturgeon, given the bitterness over independence. Now there is an example of putting the people over the politics and other leaders could learn from that.
meltedchic
18-03-21, 21:14
Hoping that there would be no problems with these vaccines in the long run. It is still pretty scary. For me I have to wait a lil longer.
They are totally out of your system within 14 days, broken down, excreted etc.
In all honesty this feels to me like a smear campaign against the AZ vaccine. There has been a drip, drip of negativity long before this halting and review. Macron's 'quasi-ineffective' claim an example. This sinks in on a subconscious level.
It's the people who will suffer.
I'm really surprised that Germany is in such a bad way with Covid cases.
In all honesty this feels to me like a smear campaign against the AZ vaccine. There has been a drip, drip of negativity long before this halting and review. Macron's 'quasi-ineffective' claim an example. This sinks in on a subconscious level.
It does seem as though Oxford AZ is being blatantly singled out, but according to another FM on here who started a dedicated thread about it, there are also people sticking the knife in about the Pfizer vaccine and its own respective rumoured detrimental side effects, but at least the MSM so far seem to be acting responsibly and keeping it low-key if there is any grain of truth in it.
I think there's some people who simply revel in the drama of it all.
Re my comment the Germans are normally so ultra efficient and on the ball.
MyNameIsTerry
19-03-21, 15:08
I would like to know what ROI's Deputy Chief Medical Officer has to say:
Covid-19: NI to keep using AstraZeneca jab after Irish suspension - BBC News (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56391818)
Ireland's deputy chief medical officer Dr Ronan Glynn said new information had been received from the Norwegian Medicines Agency on Saturday night and that, while there is no conclusion that there's a link to the AstraZeneca vaccine, the decision to suspend the vaccine programme came from "an abundance of caution".
Please show us what this information was. I haven't seen anything from WHO or the EMA about what this information was. Is someone playing games or are these lies? The only information in the media has been about the cases in Norway but there has been nothing, to my knowledge, that is new information.
Maybe this highly trained and experienced civil servant has got it wrong or misread new for old? Or maybe it's BS? Or maybe it was a call from someone else reminding them of unity...:whistles::winks:
Maybe we will never know as it has been a serious own goal but I do think that whatever was the subject of that new information may be key to this for many of them.
Re my comment the Germans are normally so ultra efficient and on the ball.
Yes, that does seem a bit at odds with how Germany is usually organised.
Dare I say it, perhaps they (and other nations in mainland Europe) have started to get a little complacent more recently.
Perhaps we (ironically) learned the hard way by being so inept at managing the situation earlier in the pandemic, or perhaps our current situation is mere pot luck.
Pamplemousse
19-03-21, 18:41
What gets me is that after Macron's inadvisable comments about the over-65s, it would now seem that the Haute Autorité de Santé is now saying it shouldn't be given to anyone under 55...
MyNameIsTerry
19-03-21, 19:49
What a mess:
https://www.euronews.com/2021/03/18/norway-sweden-denmark-wait-before-restarting-astrazeneca-vaccinations
So Norway believe they have evidence and that appears to be "we can't find a reason therefore it must be the jab".
And it's how rare? But how rare is dying from Covid? :doh:
If they don't want it, fine, stop sitting on supplies and donate them to poorer countries that will welcome them.
As for the French statement :wall: The EMA must be thinking what's the point? Why aren't the trusting their drug regulator?
What a load of merde-de-bull..
Pamplemousse
20-03-21, 14:42
Listening to the radio this morning, Sir John Bell described the French government's behaviour as "crackers" and "irresponsible". Bang on the money there.
And now Paris is shut down.
Pamplemousse
20-03-21, 15:03
What a mess:
https://www.euronews.com/2021/03/18/norway-sweden-denmark-wait-before-restarting-astrazeneca-vaccinations
So Norway believe they have evidence and that appears to be "we can't find a reason therefore it must be the jab".
And it's how rare? But how rare is dying from Covid? :doh:
If they don't want it, fine, stop sitting on supplies and donate them to poorer countries that will welcome them.
As for the French statement :wall: The EMA must be thinking what's the point? Why aren't the trusting their drug regulator?
Terry, have a listen to today's episode of the "Today" programme, the segment after eight o'clock. Sir John Bell spoke a lot of sense - he finished his view on the Oslo report with the phrase "if you want blood clots, get Covid."
Link to programme: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000tdy4
He said a lot of what you just have!
Pamplemousse
20-03-21, 15:10
For anyone wondering... they don't come much more qualified to comment on such matters as Bell.
Panicattacka
22-03-21, 03:18
Curiouser and curiouser: AstraZeneca's head of R&D dies suddenly of CJD:scared15:
https://www.reuters.com/article/astrazeneca-baselga/astrazenecas-head-of-rd-for-oncology-dies-at-61-idUSL4N2LJ0BV
Nothing is what it seems...
MyNameIsTerry
22-03-21, 07:00
Curiouser and curiouser: AstraZeneca's head of R&D dies suddenly of CJD:scared15:
https://www.reuters.com/article/astrazeneca-baselga/astrazenecas-head-of-rd-for-oncology-dies-at-61-idUSL4N2LJ0BV
Nothing is what it seems...
All I see here is a person who did a lot of good and died a horrible death. RIP and thank you for your contribution to mankind.
Nothing is what it seems...
....when you come along Panicattacka and add your off the wall negative conspiracy theory nonsense to the thread. He was in charge of oncology, cancer drugs.
MyNameIsTerry
22-03-21, 07:09
Terry, have a listen to today's episode of the "Today" programme, the segment after eight o'clock. Sir John Bell spoke a lot of sense - he finished his view on the Oslo report with the phrase "if you want blood clots, get Covid."
Link to programme: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000tdy4
He said a lot of what you just have!
Thanks for that, PM. A very interesting listen to an expert just telling it how it is. It's pretty damning if a guy like this calls your strategy crackers.
He also mentioned the Oslo report was very anecdotal and not the standard used to measure the impacts of a drug. This was really useful because media reporting has been vague about what Norway have found.
His final comment should remind the younger groups, the ones France thinks it's latest strategy (may have changed again by now :whistles:), doesn't stand up when Covid has a greater potential to cause clots. He even added "I can't think of a better way".
Curiouser and curiouser: AstraZeneca's head of R&D dies suddenly of CJD:scared15:
https://www.reuters.com/article/astrazeneca-baselga/astrazenecas-head-of-rd-for-oncology-dies-at-61-idUSL4N2LJ0BV
Nothing is what it seems...
This is the new tactic then I guess? Anyone at all who dies of anything is more confirmation of “nothing is what it seems”?
Why don’t you just be out with it? Tell us all what you think. Tell us all what your concern is. Tell us why “nothing is as it seems”. Or is it easier to do little hit and run posts and have a little giggle at the doubt you’ve put in anxious folks heads?
Stop acting like a troll. Stop being a coward. Let’s have a debate and we’ll see how much merit your “arguments” have.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-56479462
100% effective against severe disease and 80% protection against symptomatic infection. 30,000 people involved, no safety concerns. Specifically looking for blood clots, none where found in any age group.
It’s time for the nonsense over this vaccine to stop. This vaccine is a miracle of science and is, so far, showing to be one of the most successful vaccines ever designed.
The politics, the conspiracy theories, the twisting of data all has to stop. This vaccine truly has the potential to halt this horrendous virus in its tracks, and the fact that people are trying to label it as either dangerous or ineffective is, frankly, sickening.
To be blunt, by putting people off this vaccine, you may just have blood on your hands.
From the US -
The vaccine was 79% effective at stopping symptomatic Covid disease and 100% effective at preventing people from falling seriously ill.
And there were no safety issues regarding blood clots.
whispershadow
22-03-21, 12:39
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-56479462
100% effective against severe disease and 80% protection against symptomatic infection. 30,000 people involved, no safety concerns. Specifically looking for blood clots, none where found in any age group.
It’s time for the nonsense over this vaccine to stop. This vaccine is a miracle of science and is, so far, showing to be one of the most successful vaccines ever designed.
The politics, the conspiracy theories, the twisting of data all has to stop. This vaccine truly has the potential to halt this horrendous virus in its tracks, and the fact that people are trying to label it as either dangerous or ineffective is, frankly, sickening.
To be blunt, by putting people off this vaccine, you may just have blood on your hands.
Sadly, there will always be conspiracy theorists making things up about anything .............
they could even make up conspiracies about a bird flying over their house ...........
Pamplemousse
22-03-21, 12:39
Stop acting like a troll. Stop being a coward. Let’s have a debate and we’ll see how much merit your “arguments” have.
Yep, seems a fair assessment to me - and I can be a right cynical bar steward at times as you know :winks: Do be careful though, Gary - you're on the only forum I know of where troll-like behaviour is deemed acceptable, but calling people out on it is unacceptable.
Pamplemousse
22-03-21, 12:40
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-56479462
100% effective against severe disease and 80% protection against symptomatic infection. 30,000 people involved, no safety concerns. Specifically looking for blood clots, none where found in any age group.
It’s time for the nonsense over this vaccine to stop. This vaccine is a miracle of science and is, so far, showing to be one of the most successful vaccines ever designed.
The politics, the conspiracy theories, the twisting of data all has to stop. This vaccine truly has the potential to halt this horrendous virus in its tracks, and the fact that people are trying to label it as either dangerous or ineffective is, frankly, sickening.
To be blunt, by putting people off this vaccine, you may just have blood on your hands.
I'm looking forward to the future FDA approval shutting one particular individual on this board up... :roflmao:
I really have no idea why the AZ vaccine has such a bad press, other than some thinking it wasn't as good as the Pfizer one on first assessment. Heavens, it's a "conventional" vaccine too, not a scary mRNA vaccine either!
Pamplemousse
22-03-21, 15:46
His final comment should remind the younger groups, the ones France thinks it's latest strategy (may have changed again by now :whistles:), doesn't stand up when Covid has a greater potential to cause clots.
Quite apart from the French seemingly being a nation of hypochondriacs (I was amazed at the density of pharmacies when I first went to Paris) I did read elsewhere that the French are the biggest users of homeopathic 'remedies' in Europe.
Yep, seems a fair assessment to me - and I can be a right cynical bar steward at times as you know :winks: Do be careful though, Gary - you're on the only forum I know of where troll-like behaviour is deemed acceptable, but calling people out on it is unacceptable.
That’s why I was careful to say “acting like” a troll. I’m well aware that the accusation of trolling is the equivalent of streaking through this forum.
Curiouser and curiouser: AstraZeneca's head of R&D dies suddenly of CJD:scared15:
https://www.reuters.com/article/astrazeneca-baselga/astrazenecas-head-of-rd-for-oncology-dies-at-61-idUSL4N2LJ0BV
Nothing is what it seems...Well its obvious what's happened here. He must have been given the AZ vaccine, instantly developed CJD before instantly dying.
Well its obvious what's happened here. He must have been given the AZ vaccine, instantly developed CJD before instantly dying.
That sounds highly likely, Fishman...Should we tell the world?
We should Pulisa, asap. How on Earth that vaccine was passed I've no idea. Its even got pork in it I hear.
Well its obvious what's happened here. He must have been given the AZ vaccine, instantly developed CJD before instantly dying.
:roflmao:
Well, I have an alternative thought - he KNEW too much, and ....well......you can guess the rest :ohmy:
Yes, Panicattacka is 'acting like a troll'.
I've heard that "acting like a troll" can be a side effect of the AZ.
NMP had better prepare itself...
I've heard that "acting like a troll" can be a side effect of the AZ.
NMP had better prepare itself...'Acting like a troll' is officially listed as a side effect. President Macron told me.
Sadly, there will always be conspiracy theorists making things up about anything .............
they could even make up conspiracies about a bird flying over their house ...........
I know the original subject of this thread is now mostly old hat, but retrospectively scrolling through this thread this morning, your post instantly reminded me of this time 20 years ago when the UK was in the grip of the Foot and Mouth crisis and this one guy I know was coming out with BS conspiracy theories about Blair 'engineering' said crisis as a deliberate ploy to put farmers out of business, and of course, to 'control' us all!!
And that was still before social media became a thing.
Panicattacka
30-03-21, 07:58
Uh-oh, Canada just suspended the Astra Zeneca vaccine for anyone under the age of 55:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/astrazeneca-under-55-1.5968128
So when are you having your jab, Pa?
Oh no, thanks for showing me that link PA, Its totally changed my mind about having this vaccine ! - oh damn too late, I have it over 2 weeks ago and am fine.
Pamplemousse
30-03-21, 11:46
Ah, the Canadians taking their cue from the "crackers" French, I see.
Ah, the Canadians taking their cue from the "crackers" French, I see.
You could be right PM.
Anyway, I reckon I made a bit of a boo-boo bumping this thread the other day, but that might still have happened anyway with PA and his/her link to the headline about the latest situation in Canada.
MyNameIsTerry
30-03-21, 15:27
Now Germany. Note the lack of evidence again.
Now Germany. Note the lack of evidence again.
I thought Germany had already halted the Oxford AZ vaccine and then resumed it again.
I wonder how long it might be before the UK halts it, especially if the blood clot scares keep persisting?
But then again, shortages have already been forecast by our govt for April.
MyNameIsTerry
30-03-21, 16:31
No, they've now done the same as France.
We have vaccinated a lot of people and aren't seeing issues so why would we halt it?
No, they've now done the same as France.
We have vaccinated a lot of people and aren't seeing issues so why would we halt it?
Exactly.
I think a lot of the blood clot scares have been blown out of proportion by the media as per usual, plus I reckon there might be other agendas at play in mainland Europe and now Canada.
I dread to imagine what Trump and Co might have made of all this had they still remained in power!
Pamplemousse
30-03-21, 20:30
From the BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56570364
Well worth a read.
I hope the AZ vaccine turns out to be the most effective one against all known variants. Any country halting administration of it can send it all back to the UK and we can use it when needed here and to help 3rd World Countries who wouldn't turn their noses up at it.
MyNameIsTerry
30-03-21, 22:25
Exactly.
I think a lot of the blood clot scares have been blown out of proportion by the media as per usual, plus I reckon there might be other agendas at play in mainland Europe and now Canada.
I dread to imagine what Trump and Co might have made of all this had they still remained in power!
I would be putting my monkey on political leaders rather than the media. The media will then add to it, as they usually do, based on their usual biases and who they support or berate.
The mixed messages of leaders has damaged confidence in vaccines in general according to some experts.
MyNameIsTerry
30-03-21, 22:26
I hope the AZ vaccine turns out to be the most effective one against all known variants. Any country halting administration of it can send it all back to the UK and we can use it when needed here and to help 3rd World Countries who wouldn't turn their noses up at it.
Yep, all those millions being hoarded will be gratefully accepted by someone.
Pamplemousse
30-03-21, 23:13
I would be putting my monkey on political leaders rather than the media. The media will then add to it, as they usually do, based on their usual biases and who they support or berate.
The mixed messages of leaders has damaged confidence in vaccines in general according to some experts.
Pretty much what Professor Sir John Bell said last week.
MyNameIsTerry
30-03-21, 23:25
Pretty much what Professor Sir John Bell said last week.
Yep, that's one of the experts I had in mind. It seems his crackers comment now applies to Germany too. I haven't digested their numbers properly yet but I think 31 was stated.
I've seen other experts saying this too. There is a piece by an Oxford doctor calling on leaders to pull together with their messages
Didn't WHO warn of this?
Yep, that's one of the experts I had in mind. It seems his crackers comment now applies to Germany too. I haven't digested their numbers properly yet but I think 31 was stated.
I've seen other experts saying this too. There is a piece by an Oxford doctor calling on leaders to pull together with their messages
Didn't WHO warn of this?
It’s a shambles. So much for “we’re all in this together”, that went down the tubes rather quickly didn’t it?
A killer disease has brought the world to its knees over the course of one year, yet these petty little people are even playing politics with a scientific solution.
I truly despair for the human race at times, I really do.
It’s a shambles. So much for “we’re all in this together”, that went down the tubes rather quickly didn’t it?
A killer disease has brought the world to its knees over the course of one year, yet these petty little people are even playing politics with a scientific solution.
I truly despair for the human race at times, I really do.
I agree totally. Putting politics before people's lives really sucks big time, and the politicians of the countries concerned really should be ashamed of themselves.
I think this was already apparent before all the hysteria over blood clots became a thing, and they are probably using the blood clot scares as a vehicle to further their agendas, plus no doubt the serial antivaxxers and conspiracy theorists are revelling in all of this.
I also reckon that the govts of many nations in mainland Europe must have cold feet over the fact that the UK has left the EU and we started our jabs ahead of them, and assuming we cut corners by rushing the rollouts without following their protocols.
Dare I say it, I'm generally on the Remain side, but this current situation in many respects has kind of got me wondering otherwise.
Pamplemousse
31-03-21, 11:41
I doubt this has got anything to do with the UK leaving the EU much as the Brexity types would like you to believe, but there is an element of "Why, if they could make a fortune from it, are they offering it at cost? Maybe because it isn't any good?"
As for France: well, it has the highest number of people who believe in homeopathy.
The big problem I have is the focus on the OAZ vaccine: what about studies in patients vaccinated with other vaccines, and how do they compare to a control group?
Copied from a post elsewhere:
Where is the data to say (1) blood clots are more common side effect from Astra Zeneca than other vaccines (2) blood clots are more common from people having the vaccine than a control group (matched for demographics) not having it and (3) the risk from blood clots is greater than the risk of not being protected against covid?
The political grandstanding over the issue is costing lives, IMHO.
Here is a good article explaining why mass production of vaccines is a non-trivial matter:
https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/why-manufacturing-covid-vaccines-at-scale-is-hard/4013429.article
I doubt this has got anything to do with the UK leaving the EU much as the Brexity types would like you to believe, but there is an element of "Why, if they could make a fortune from it, are they offering it at cost? Maybe because it isn't any good?"
As for France: well, it has the highest number of people who believe in homeopathy.
The big problem I have is the focus on the OAZ vaccine: what about studies in patients vaccinated with other vaccines, and how do they compare to a control group?
Copied from a post elsewhere:
Here is a good article explaining why mass production of vaccines is a non-trivial matter:
https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/why-manufacturing-covid-vaccines-at-scale-is-hard/4013429.article
As for the Brexit thing and the Oxford AZ vaccine situation in mainland Europe, it was merely what I was surmising and could very well be a load of old cobblers for all I know.
Why said vaccine is currently being singled out as some kind of 'pariah' is totally beyond me.
Almost as daft as the long-standing urban legend about criminal gangs in white vans, when surely vehicles of other colours have been used in such instances.
There is no scientific reason for these nations constantly trying to put a spanner in the works for this vaccine, none whatsoever. The EMA and the MHRA have intensely studied the data and it has been shown time and again to be both safe and effective.
That leaves politics. Weasels like Macron and his “quasi ineffective” guff and Germany going from “there’s no data on over 65’s” to “nobody under 55 can have this vaccine” reeks of bitterness, cluelessness and downright spite. If not Brexit, then what is it? I’m not a Brexiter myself, I know little about that particular argument and care even less, but this for me absolutely screams of politicians who have been humiliated trying as hard as they can to throw dirt back from where it came.
It’s an absolute scandal, and while they strut around having a d*ck swinging contest, people in their thousands are becoming seriously ill and dying from what now is a preventable disease. I hope they can sleep well at night knowing that.
“Ooh – makes me wonder…. Ooh - makes me really wonder”
You keep an open mind and carry on wondering, ‘boy – there’s much to wonder about….
I'm still not necessarily a 'converted' Brexiteer though.
Mind you, what's done is done and for everyone's info I was unable to vote in the 2016 EU Referendum as myself and my parents were away on holiday on that date, but that's a whole 'nother story!
There is no scientific reason for these nations constantly trying to put a spanner in the works for this vaccine, none whatsoever. The EMA and the MHRA have intensely studied the data and it has been shown time and again to be both safe and effective.
That leaves politics. Weasels like Macron and his “quasi ineffective” guff and Germany going from “there’s no data on over 65’s” to “nobody under 55 can have this vaccine” reeks of bitterness, cluelessness and downright spite. If not Brexit, then what is it? I’m not a Brexiter myself, I know little about that particular argument and care even less, but this for me absolutely screams of politicians who have been humiliated trying as hard as they can to throw dirt back from where it came.
It’s an absolute scandal, and while they strut around having a d*ck swinging contest, people in their thousands are becoming seriously ill and dying from what now is a preventable disease. I hope they can sleep well at night knowing that.
And the authorities in the affected mainland European nations have negligently screwed up so need to 'own' their gross ineptitude, especially as some of those same nations are now in the grip of their third waves, and inadvertantly having to face the music!
A classic case of having to have one's cake and eating it!
Pamplemousse
31-03-21, 13:28
That leaves politics. Weasels like Macron and his “quasi ineffective” guff and Germany going from “there’s no data on over 65’s” to “nobody under 55 can have this vaccine” reeks of bitterness, cluelessness and downright spite. If not Brexit, then what is it? I’m not a Brexiter myself, I know little about that particular argument and care even less, but this for me absolutely screams of politicians who have been humiliated trying as hard as they can to throw dirt back from where it came.
"Brexit" doesn't explain Canada's response, or the FDA remaining undecided on the OAZ vaccine in the US. Germany also has a strong anti-vaxx culture and a suspicion of anything that's perceived as "cheap".
I'm still firmly of the opinion that AZ did not help themselves one iota with their presentation of their initial test results, nor indeed the groups used in the test.
Whilst the Mail, Express and other populist RW types will label this as "jealous because of Brexit", that I think is utter, utter ********.
This is really one for the medical profession, but cases have been reported and investigated of the same issue (thrombocytopenia) occurring in those vaccinated with the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajh.26132
"Brexit" doesn't explain Canada's response, or the FDA remaining undecided on the OAZ vaccine in the US. Germany also has a strong anti-vaxx culture and a suspicion of anything that's perceived as "cheap".
I'm still firmly of the opinion that AZ did not help themselves one iota with their presentation of their initial test results, nor indeed the groups used in the test.
Whilst the Mail, Express and other populist RW types will label this as "jealous because of Brexit", that I think is utter, utter ********.
This is really one for the medical profession, but cases have been reported and investigated of the same issue (thrombocytopenia) occurring in those vaccinated with the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajh.26132
That's exactly what I can't comprehend.
Why are people in mainland Europe and now Canada singling out the OAZ vaccine as problematic but not batting an eyelid over Pfizer, Moderna, etc, when similar problems have reportedly been known to occur in persons who have received said vaccines, or even, purely coincidental and not linked to the jabs at all?
Even Covid itself can cause blood clots and probably much worse than all the vaccines put together!
MyNameIsTerry
31-03-21, 18:51
It’s a shambles. So much for “we’re all in this together”, that went down the tubes rather quickly didn’t it?
A killer disease has brought the world to its knees over the course of one year, yet these petty little people are even playing politics with a scientific solution.
I truly despair for the human race at times, I really do.
Yep, as you say there is no scientific basis for all they are doing to block this vaccine. They cite cases which they fail to even prove a link to, disagree with their own drugs regulator and some of their political moves are very dubious.
The BBC put up an interesting graphic about a week ago that showed the global chunk of business each vaccine was getting. Pfizer and AZ were neck & neck with AZ slightly behind. If we forget politics it only leaves money. Who's profiting here?
I'm glad to see Novavax are staying within the UK so we can avoid further complications and threats of bans.
I would like to know why countries outside of EU & EEA circles are so concerned. I suspect the US decision is a blip, and Fauci has been caught out before here over the MHRA, that will soon change but countries like Canada we hear little from.
Something stinks in this. Who is profiting?
MyNameIsTerry
31-03-21, 18:54
That's exactly what I can't comprehend.
Why are people in mainland Europe and now Canada singling out the OAZ vaccine as problematic but not batting an eyelid over Pfizer, Moderna, etc, when similar problems have reportedly been known to occur in persons who have received said vaccines, or even, purely coincidental and not linked to the jabs at all?
Even Covid itself can cause blood clots and probably much worse than all the vaccines put together!
Covid causes them at much higher rates. PM posted a BBC radio interview with Sir Bell where he said "If you want to get a blood clot, get Covid. I can think of no better way".
If this were any other medicine would this be happening? Normal writhing tolerance events causing all this? Nope.
If the focus is on AZ despite similar cases in the others it just leads us back to either ignorance/incompetence or motivation.
MyNameIsTerry
31-03-21, 19:01
'No evidence' to support restricted use of AstraZeneca vaccine, says European Medicines Agency
There is “no evidence” to support restricting the use of the AstraZeneca in any population, the head of the European Medicines Agency said yesterday (WED) after Germany suspended its use over blood clot fears, James Crisp reports.
The EU’s drugs regulator said that a causal link between unusual blood clots was “not proven but is possible” but added that the benefits of the jab outweigh the risks.
The European Medicines Agency (EMA) executive director Emer Cooke said 62 cases of cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST) have been reviewed out of 9.2 million people in the European Economic Area (EEA).
There were no specific risk factors such as age or gender for the “very rare” blood clots, she said.
"According to the current scientific knowledge, there is no evidence that would support restricting the use of this vaccine in any population," she said.
The German medicines regulator reported 31 cases of a type of rare brain blood clot among the nearly 2.7 million people who received the AstraZeneca jab in the country. Some regions including Berlin have banned the jab for people under the age of 60.
^ that's from today's statement from the EMA following another review. But will they listen to science (again) this time?
EEA countries covered so it goes further than EU states even if it's Germany that seem to have sparked this latest review.
As Joe I think it was who pointed out, is this more to do with individual countries trying to undermine the Oxford AZ vaccine because it is dirt cheap? They want it discredited, shunned by the public and replaced with their own vaccines. I don't have the answers but what seems crystal clear is that only one vaccine has been singled out for repetitive criticism and questioning that amounts to a premeditated smear campaign.
Pamplemousse
31-03-21, 20:31
Well, France's lockdown is growing.
https://www.france24.com/en/france/20210331-live-macron-addresses-france-as-covid-19-cases-resurge
It will be interesting to see what next year's elections bring for Macron; I'm not sure what platform the other candidates are standing on where vaccination is concerned but Macron is still the clear favourite.
ankietyjoe
31-03-21, 21:42
As Joe I think it was who pointed out, is this more to do with individual countries trying to undermine the Oxford AZ vaccine because it is dirt cheap? They want it discredited, shunned by the public and replaced with their own vaccines. I don't have the answers but what seems crystal clear is that only one vaccine has been singled out for repetitive criticism and questioning that amounts to a premeditated smear campaign.
Indeed, it seems blindingly obvious. The AZ vaccine has been produced 'non-profit' for the duration of the pandemic, so of course it will be liable to all sorts of desperate smear campaigns.
Pamplemousse
31-03-21, 22:01
Indeed, it seems blindingly obvious. The AZ vaccine has been produced 'non-profit' for the duration of the pandemic, so of course it will be liable to all sorts of desperate smear campaigns.
Can you justify that statement?
To use a phrase much loved by barristers, cui bono?
MyNameIsTerry
01-04-21, 00:51
As Joe I think it was who pointed out, is this more to do with individual countries trying to undermine the Oxford AZ vaccine because it is dirt cheap? They want it discredited, shunned by the public and replaced with their own vaccines. I don't have the answers but what seems crystal clear is that only one vaccine has been singled out for repetitive criticism and questioning that amounts to a premeditated smear campaign.
Indeed, it seems blindingly obvious. The AZ vaccine has been produced 'non-profit' for the duration of the pandemic, so of course it will be liable to all sorts of desperate smear campaigns.
This shows there is a potential financial motive for some:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/01/28/world/europe/vaccine-secret-contracts-prices.amp.html
Some Governments Are Profiting
Early in the pandemic, the European Investment Bank, the lending arm of the European Union, provided a $100 million loan to the German company BioNTech, which partnered with Pfizer in producing a vaccine.
In addition to the interest on the loan, the European bank will receive up to $25 million in vaccine profits, according to a redacted version of the contract that BioNTech filed with securities regulators.
The bank said profit-sharing arrangements reflect the risk involved in early financing. Mr. Rizvi, of Public Citizen, argued that it puts governments on the same side as the drug makers and reduces any incentive to make drugs cheap and widely available.
There could be things like this in any contract including ours. But certain countries seem very against AZ without scientific or medical reason.
EEA countries have close trade contracts so can be reminded of their commitments. It doesn't explain other countries around the world but it could be as simple as confidence levels after seeing all this. If they want to purchase at way over the odds, knock yourselves out, but you would think anyone who at the minimum understands business can see what's going on has an ulterior motive in play.
MyNameIsTerry
01-04-21, 00:55
The global reach chart I mentioned earlier is on this page:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-56237778
AZ have pushed well ahead now.
I did read a good article about this somewhere - can’t remember where though. About how AZ is pretty much the only not for profit jab and as such doesn’t have the experience or PR money behind it, so all the others are just sh1tting in it from a height.
It’s a disgrace really. The kind of corporate greed that would make me start to believe in conspiracy theories if I was so inclined...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Pamplemousse
01-04-21, 11:12
I must admit that I am concerned that people think the OAZ vaccine is the victim of a "smear campaign".
Doesn't that sound a bit like, y'know, a conspiracy theory?
ankietyjoe
01-04-21, 14:22
Can you justify that statement?
To use a phrase much loved by barristers, cui bono?
I must admit that I am concerned that people think the OAZ vaccine is the victim of a "smear campaign".
Doesn't that sound a bit like, y'know, a conspiracy theory?
There is a vast difference between a politically/financially motivated smear campaign and a conspiracy theory.
Businesses and politicians sh1t on each other all the time, and using news outlets to put a negative spin on facts (yes, some people who'd had the AZ vaccine DID develop blood clots) is hardly conspiracy theory territory.
Pamplemousse
01-04-21, 17:12
There is a vast difference between a politically/financially motivated smear campaign and a conspiracy theory.
Your comment is risible.
The mere suggestion that there is a smear campaign going on to discredit the OAZ vaccine IS conspiracy theory territory.
As I have said before, and will say again: cui bono?
Prove it. Put your money where your mouth is.
ankietyjoe
01-04-21, 17:42
Your comment is risible.
The mere suggestion that there is a smear campaign going on to discredit the OAZ vaccine IS conspiracy theory territory.
As I have said before, and will say again: cui bono?
Prove it. Put your money where your mouth is.
Why do I have to prove it?
Why are you persistently requesting that I provide evidence for my opinion on something?
As I have said before, if you don't like what I say.....I'm cool with that.
For the record, an old family friend was a serial company CEO. He was put in charge of companies such as Unilever, ICI etc. We would visit his house once a month, and this was a man who would just make a phone call and get the borough of Westminster to change the one way direction outside his house so there was less noise at night time. This man was power, and in my 20's I would listen to him talk about the 'war' that was business.
But sadly I didn't record any of these legendary conversations, so it's just anecdotal flim flam as far as you're concerned.
I also still can't prove to you that eating healthily actually matters.
I suppose if you want to be pedantically literal, I guess this kind of smear campaign could be described as a conspiracy theory, but I'm able to separate out a likely smear job from 'Bill Gates is a lizard who wants to inject you with robots' or 'The Chinese deliberately made Covid to destroy the West'.
Do you see the difference, do you?
WiredIncorrectly
01-04-21, 19:05
We'll be in lockdown by end of May. I'll quote this post end of May :shades:
Peace, I'm out.
I must admit that I am concerned that people think the OAZ vaccine is the victim of a "smear campaign".
Doesn't that sound a bit like, y'know, a conspiracy theory?
What do you think it is then PM?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I've called the AZ vaccine assassination a smear campaign because I sincerely believe its the only rational explanation. If anyone would like to suggest another reason why a perfectly efficacious and safe vaccine has repeatedly been attacked, in the absence of supporting data, I'd love to hear it. Unless the people behind Pfizer and Moderna are lizards of course, that really would be proof.
MyNameIsTerry
01-04-21, 20:39
Let's remember: no medical evidence.
So why do they keep trying to stop it? And why keep moaning about not having enough and making threats? Let us have it all. Arguably that could be because of differences between the Commission and state leaders but then I'm not sure some of the presidents don't have handlers.
Sir John Bell described France's decision to only use it in the elderly, a complete reversal of their early "quasi effective" view, and after it went back to the EMA who stated no basis for concern - crackers.
So if it's not political or financial do we conclude it's incompetence and ignorance? All those doctors & scientists are a bit thick? :shrug:
I don't understand countries outside of EU/EEA quarters but those inside, EU that is,,are in the middle of a nasty 5 year battle that continues...
We'll be in lockdown by end of May. I'll quote this post end of May :shades:
Peace, I'm out.
Who knows?
Surely we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
Also remember that this is NOT France, and we're way ahead with our jabbing by comparison (sorry French people).
Pamplemousse
01-04-21, 22:37
What do you think it is then PM?
If I knew that... I dunno. Stupidity? Ignorance? The Germans don't trust "cheap" in any walk of life nor were they impressed by the initial trial data which seemed to exclude the target group of over-65s. The French? Well, they weren't helped by Macron's comment initially. They're also quite sceptical about vaccinations in general, but nowhere near as much as Germans are. But a concerted "smear campaign" by unknown actors? No, I don't buy that. Macron may be making a rod for his back as I gather le peuple are increasingly pissed off at his handling of the whole matter, but it is very unlikely his nearest rival - Marine Le Pen - will get anywhere in next year's elections; certainly not in metropolitan France any way.
Certainly it's worrying that despite repeated assertions by the EMA that it's safe, member nations are now choosing to ignore them.
That little bit of Latin beloved of barristers, cui bono?, that I keep mentioning? It means "who benefits?".
Who indeed would benefit from rubbishing the AZ vaccine against the others, which millions have had here in the UK but with little of the CSVTs it is claimed to cause?
As for WI's comment: nothing would surprise me any more - I'm already hearing of indoor social events in July being cancelled because of ongoing caution over where we might be with this disease.
Anyway, I'm out.
MyNameIsTerry
01-04-21, 23:55
Who benefits? In which way? Financially or politically? For EU, and maybe EEA countries, a case can be made there. Not so other countries in my opinion.
Financially Pfizer does have a nice 25% of profits in the contract. That goes to the ECB. Everyone buys Pfizer means more profit and their cut. Doesn't that also mean a stealth tax if EU countries buy Pfizer? But would EU states be happy overpaying? Put countries around the world off AZ and sell more of Pfizer.
But regardless they are disagreeing with science and going with gut. They think they know but can't offer any evidence. That makes little sense. The anti vaxxers have been relegated as now governments and health bodies are causing such confusion putting people off.
It makes little sense to me that these highly qualified people, equivalent to ours, keep panicking. Surely these people aren't wary of vaccines?
WiredIncorrectly
02-04-21, 02:11
Who knows?
Surely we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
Also remember that this is NOT France, and we're way ahead with our jabbing by comparison (sorry French people).
If the vaccines work, then numbers should remain stable. But nobody knows how long the vaccine will protect for. For as long as the virus is hovering around people will likely need more shots otherwise it'll take hold again. We're around the 5k mark (UK testing was reduced this week this a few thousand missed possibly).
It winds me up how Whitty is comparing it to the flu.
He isn't, I don't think? Just hoping that in future Covid can be managed like flu is know?
Why are we getting 5k new cases every day?
He isn't, I don't think? Just hoping that in future Covid can be managed like flu is know?
Why are we getting 5k new cases every day?
That's the trouble isn't it Pulisa. Whatever those people at the top say (even the 'true' experts rather than politicians) gets shot down in flames with cynical remarks such as 'yeah right?', etc (no namedropping on behalf of others on this forum).
Thing is, prior to early 2020, most people never really batted an eyelid over normal seasonal flu, and common colds in general, and at some point in history the normal seasonal flu viruses no doubt started off similar to Covid, and then diminished in their lethality over time, coupled with the developments of vaccines and the like over the years, plus the same is also likely to be possible with Covid in due course, if we give things a chance.
And whilst I still agree that the UK authorities have generally made a right pig's ear of their handling of this pandemic, especially earlier on, we should still give them a chance, even if they have learned the hard way over the past year or so!
Kind of ironic that we're now the third most advanced in the world when it comes to Covid jabs (and the first country to start doling them out), whilst many other countries around the world are shunning said vaccines, even the non-OAZ ones!
ankietyjoe
02-04-21, 11:03
That little bit of Latin beloved of barristers, cui bono?, that I keep mentioning? It means "who benefits?".
Pfizer shareholders :shrug:
We're talking about the rapid rollout of a new product with unit counts in the billions, and high profit. The Pfizer vaccine is 5-10 times more costly than the AZ one (depending on who and where is purchasing it) meaning that even a 10% drop in Pfizer sales vs AZ would mean profit losses in the billions.
And you think that a smear campaign (effectively negative press) is unlikely? All we're really talking about is a deliberate misinterpretation of reported reactions after a vaccination. Not 'aliens stole my testicles'.
MyNameIsTerry
02-04-21, 18:13
This is from the Financial Times. Copied it over since it's behind the paywall:
UK reports 25 new cases of blood clots in recipients of AstraZeneca jabHealth officials have said insufficient evidence to change policy despite restrictions in Europe
The UK has received 30 reports of the rare blood clotting events that some scientists have linked to the Oxford/AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine and have caused precautionary restrictions to be placed on its use in many European countries.
On Thursday, the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency released information on 25 cases of severe and very rare blood clotting events, on top of five it had already reported this month.
The MHRA also clarified that it had not seen any of the same reactions in individuals that had received the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine.
Concern has been growing about possible links between the AstraZeneca jab and a very specific and rare type of blood clotting event. The news that a growing number of such cases have been identified in the UK is likely to call into question the view that the phenomenon has purely been observed in mainland Europe.
Reports of similar incidents have caused France, Sweden, Finland, Canada and most recently Germany to recommend that younger people, who are much more likely to be affected by the condition, avoid the shot. In Norway and Denmark, the vaccine is still suspended.
The main condition causing alarm is called cerebral venous sinus thrombosis, when blood forms clots in the veins that run from the brain, a potentially fatal complication.
In the cases of concern, this has been combined with an issue called thrombocytopenia where a patient also presents abnormally low levels of platelets, resulting in heavy bleeding.
In Norway, health officials have reported at least six such cases among 120,000 recipients of the jab, four of whom died. In Germany, 31 cases have been reported after 2.7m vaccinations, including 29 women aged between 20 and 63, and two men aged 36 and 57. Nine of them have died.
Up to and including March 24, the MHRA has received 22 reports of CVST and eight reports of other thrombosis events coupled with low platelets, out of a total of 18.1m people who had received the AstraZeneca vaccine. This equates to roughly one case in every 600,000 recipients.
In the UK, 17 more reports of CVST have been made this week compared with the previous week.
Officials in the UK said there was insufficient evidence at the moment to make any changes to the vaccination policy. Even if a causal link were established, some UK-based experts said it would still make sense to continue with vaccinations as the blood clot incidents appeared to be extremely rare.
Johannes Oldenburg, professor of transfusion medicine at Bonn university, said he agreed with the UK’s decision, even though he believed the AstraZeneca shot was causing the symptoms.
“If I had a choice between immediate vaccination with AstraZeneca or waiting four weeks for Moderna, then I would choose the AstraZeneca vaccine because the four weeks of protection far outweighs this risk,” he said.
Oxford university and AstraZeneca said their trials showed the vaccine was safe and effective, and that they were continuing to monitor for side effects as the shot was rolled out.
Dr June Raine, chief executive of the MHRA, reiterated that “the benefits of Covid-19 vaccine AstraZeneca in preventing Covid-19 infection and its complications continue to outweigh any risks and the public should continue to get their vaccine when invited to do so”.
This is from the Financial Times. Copied it over since it's behind the paywall:
Obviously insufficient evidence thus far to consider halting OAZ here as yet.
So 31 cases of blood clots in Germany after 2.7M vaccinations. Google tells me that's 0.001% of cases. Crikey no wonder they're halting the vaccine, its deadly.
MyNameIsTerry
03-04-21, 02:33
Obviously insufficient evidence thus far to consider halting OAZ here as yet.
30 cases out of 18.1m people.
0.0001657458%
Maybe it's a British vaccine and you need a good old fashioned staff upper lip and drink lots of tea (and moan about queuing) for it not to affect you?
And remember: no medical evidence of a link either.
The Netherlands have halted it's use now.
MyNameIsTerry
03-04-21, 02:35
So 31 cases of blood clots in Germany after 2.7M vaccinations. Google tells me that's 0.001% of cases. Crikey no wonder they're halting the vaccine, its deadly.
According to the British Heart Foundation serious reactions are a little higher but they don't seem to be mentioning that one. That could be due to less mortalities though, I haven't checked that.
I have had asthma since childhood. I know to take ibuprofen I should consult my doctor first, as it says on the label. 10-20% of asthmatics are at risk of mild to severe asthma attacks when taking NSAIDS. My GP was fine allowing it despite the fact he would not be there should anything go wrong. How many doctors authorise that all the time? Deaths are rare but can happen...asthma attacks are not much fun!
Are Germany filling their shorts?
Maybe Van Tam needs to go wave his box of paracetamol at them? :winks:
WiredIncorrectly
03-04-21, 06:13
He isn't, I don't think? Just hoping that in future Covid can be managed like flu is know?
Why are we getting 5k new cases every day?
Hope? More like foolish expectation.
Yes. 5k cases and more. Please see here: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/
The drop in testing, means a drop in numbers. Also, like I said the tests shot up because kids were being tested daily at school. That's not representative of the nation.
Be angry at me if you like, but I see where this is going. Sorry to burst your bubble and I mean no offense. I like you.
R number is up btw. So much for hope.
I'm glad I didn't have the vaccine. A lot of people here are scared stiff. Why take something you knew was rushed? You want to have that vaccine every 4-6 months to be able to go shopping? I'll take the nope train with the other nopers.
I'll wait for people to blame people like me for causing the spread. I can see that meme taking hold soon.
MyNameIsTerry
03-04-21, 06:47
How about India? They have two approved vaccines and one is the Oxford vaccine.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-india-56345591
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/covid-vaccine-causing-deaths-aefi-experts-say-there-s-insufficient-evidence-101617347882860-amp.html
79 deaths out of 68 million vaccinations and only 8 were approved for further investigation into a causal link. I don't know the split of which vaccine was taken but given the Serum Institute is the biggest vaccine producer in the country I would expect a good % is going to be the Oxford one.
They determined only four had a possible link with one not having enough information and the other three being coincidental.
So four out of 68 million people. Even if all four of those were vaccinated with the Oxford one that is extremely rare.
MyNameIsTerry
03-04-21, 06:49
Pfizer shareholders :shrug:
We're talking about the rapid rollout of a new product with unit counts in the billions, and high profit. The Pfizer vaccine is 5-10 times more costly than the AZ one (depending on who and where is purchasing it) meaning that even a 10% drop in Pfizer sales vs AZ would mean profit losses in the billions.
And you think that a smear campaign (effectively negative press) is unlikely? All we're really talking about is a deliberate misinterpretation of reported reactions after a vaccination. Not 'aliens stole my testicles'.
Not to mention economies. Close competitors will emerge from lockdowns later whilst our economy has been recovering for months.
Slowing down your competitors is not unheard of :whistles:
I'm sure the Russian Sputnik option will be offered as a replacement for the OAZ-resistant countries. No worries with that one.
ankietyjoe
03-04-21, 09:25
Why take something you knew was rushed?
Who said it was rushed?
Be angry at me if you like, but I see where this is going.
Nobody knows where this is going J. Don't start going down 'that' road again.
Hope? More like foolish expectation.
Yes. 5k cases and more. Please see here: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/
The drop in testing, means a drop in numbers. Also, like I said the tests shot up because kids were being tested daily at school. That's not representative of the nation.
Be angry at me if you like, but I see where this is going. Sorry to burst your bubble and I mean no offense. I like you.
R number is up btw. So much for hope.
I'm glad I didn't have the vaccine. A lot of people here are scared stiff. Why take something you knew was rushed? You want to have that vaccine every 4-6 months to be able to go shopping? I'll take the nope train with the other nopers.
I'll wait for people to blame people like me for causing the spread. I can see that meme taking hold soon.
R-rate is only just touching 1 though ATM. Anything above one is generally considered a cause for concern.
Doesn't really make much sense to me as overall cases appear to have resumed their downward trend over the past week following a mini-blip towards the end of last week.
And whilst I know this week has seen lesser testing, it does appear to be back in the 1k range again now.
I think this week's ONS stats have also continued their downward trend, although I think they were published on Thursday instead of yesterday (Friday), possibly due to it being Good Friday?
Plus, if you really don't want to take the jab WIC, that's your prerogative as no one is forcing you.
Something we would all do well to remember is that new cases don’t hold the same weight as they once did. A fair amount of these cases will be completely asymptomatic due to the nature of our testing. Asymptomatic testing is now performed routinely in many settings, as well as asymptomatic test centres springing up around the country.
What’s also very apparent is that while new cases might be hanging stubbornly around the 5000 mark, the rate of hospitalisations and mortality is still dropping rather rapidly.
In Scotland, the test positivity rate has been below 3% for the past week, and it appears to be falling further despite the reopening of schools.
Let’s try and look at the positives. I’m fed up with the doom and gloom, I truly am.
ankietyjoe
03-04-21, 11:15
I’m fed up with the doom and gloom, I truly am.
I find it easy to ignore doom and gloom.
It's the ignorant prophesising and anti vax b0llocks I can't get along with.
"NUMBERS ARE ONLY GOING UP BECAUSE THEY'RE DOING MORE TESTS"
"NUMBERS ARE ONLY GOING DOWN BECAUSE THEY'RE DOING LESS TESTS"
Said exactly the same people.
MyNameIsTerry
03-04-21, 17:20
Something we would all do well to remember is that new cases don’t hold the same weight as they once did. A fair amount of these cases will be completely asymptomatic due to the nature of our testing. Asymptomatic testing is now performed routinely in many settings, as well as asymptomatic test centres springing up around the country.
What’s also very apparent is that while new cases might be hanging stubbornly around the 5000 mark, the rate of hospitalisations and mortality is still dropping rather rapidly.
In Scotland, the test positivity rate has been below 3% for the past week, and it appears to be falling further despite the reopening of schools.
Let’s try and look at the positives. I’m fed up with the doom and gloom, I truly am.
They've also said that whilst children were testing positive in greater number due to reopening schools this didn't continue in testing later in March.
The BBC rolling average had slowed down to a crawl at 5.5k. Over the past week it has dropped just below 5k and now down to 4.5k as of today. Hospitalisations have now dropped below 4k with a steady downward trend and deaths are getting very low.
WiredIncorrectly
04-04-21, 13:22
Nobody knows where this is going J. Don't start going down 'that' road again.
We'll have to wait and see :shades: I know my views are not welcomed here much (on COVID forum I mean) so I'll pause for now.
You're the Forum Soothsayer on Covid, James so your predictions are welcomed!
WiredIncorrectly
04-04-21, 14:12
You're the Forum Soothsayer on Covid, James so your predictions are welcomed!
:roflmao:
I'm just the forum pessimist. I sometimes put thorns on peoples chairs.
Something we would all do well to remember is that new cases don’t hold the same weight as they once did. A fair amount of these cases will be completely asymptomatic due to the nature of our testing. Asymptomatic testing is now performed routinely in many settings, as well as asymptomatic test centres springing up around the country.
What’s also very apparent is that while new cases might be hanging stubbornly around the 5000 mark, the rate of hospitalisations and mortality is still dropping rather rapidly.
In Scotland, the test positivity rate has been below 3% for the past week, and it appears to be falling further despite the reopening of schools.
Let’s try and look at the positives. I’m fed up with the doom and gloom, I truly am.
I'm also sick to death of all the endless doom and gloom.
All this madness concerning certain individuals saying that they would rather risk having Covid than getting jabbed and having a blood clot is really getting on my wick right now.
Same with those who keep moaning incessantly about our current Tory govt, and in particular their austerity policies, but at the same time perceive both Labour and the Lib Dems to be far worse, and refuse point blank to go out and vote for anyone period.
I think some people just revel in misery and self-pity full stop, and almost always seem to focus on what's wrong with nearly everything, rather than what's right with it.
Some people to me just come across as ungrateful and seem to cynically pooh-pooh nearly every opportunity they get to improve things.
Well said people may like to sample life in North Korea where's there are no Covid cases at all apparently and citizens enjoy a wonderful standard of living?
Well said people may like to sample life in North Korea where's there are no Covid cases at all apparently and citizens enjoy a wonderful standard of living?
LOL yes! Complete with camps for "vacation" for you and your entire family for three generations!!
Well said people may like to sample life in North Korea where's there are no Covid cases at all apparently and citizens enjoy a wonderful standard of living?
Wonderful standard of living and no Covid cases in NK?
Over my dead body!
P.S, I know you only said that in jest, Pulisa, as you are no doubt implying (just like me) that there are a lot of ungrateful people in this country who probably don't even know they're born, but have epic hissy fits over the slightest of inconveniences, and refuse point blank to accept things that are likely to help change their lives for the better!
MyNameIsTerry
05-04-21, 01:25
Trouble is, Lenco, who else do you vote for? I wouldn't get bothered by it because it's just human nature and no matter who is in their own voters will still complain because life isn't perfect.
Probably find a fair amount attacking Boris because they are hard Brexiters who want WTO or nothing. Their equivalent hard Remainers are just as full of it. Typical of the political horseshoe.
Some people just go from one whinge to the next. Left or right wing, because they exist everywhere, sneering & complaining is part of their identity.
It's why my dad doesn't bother much with politics. It's all BS.
We need a credible alternative. Sadly they are lacking. So it's vote for the least shit.
LOL yes! Complete with camps for "vacation" for you and your entire family for three generations!!
And don’t forget the lovely grey uniforms they wear,oh so glam.
Trouble is, Lenco, who else do you vote for? I wouldn't get bothered by it because it's just human nature and no matter who is in their own voters will still complain because life isn't perfect.
Probably find a fair amount attacking Boris because they are hard Brexiters who want WTO or nothing. Their equivalent hard Remainers are just as full of it. Typical of the political horseshoe.
Some people just go from one whinge to the next. Left or right wing, because they exist everywhere, sneering & complaining is part of their identity.
It's why my dad doesn't bother much with politics. It's all BS.
We need a credible alternative. Sadly they are lacking. So it's vote for the least shit.
You're correct Terry.
I bet the people who took part in the KTB city protests were of pretty much all political angles, and Labour no doubt would have got it in the neck just the same had they been in power right now.
Pamplemousse
05-04-21, 11:25
You're correct Terry.
I bet the people who took part in the KTB city protests were of pretty much all political angles, and Labour no doubt would have got it in the neck just the same had they been in power right now.
I would argue that Labour wouldn't have proposed such an appalling and authoritarian bill in the first place.
Good on the demonstrators for making the Government pay attention; sadly Governments of the last 40 years have only paid attention to the little people when the TV screens are full of coppers with head wounds from flying bricks.
I would argue that Labour wouldn't have proposed such an appalling and authoritarian bill in the first place.
Good on the demonstrators for making the Government pay attention; sadly Governments of the last 40 years have only paid attention to the little people when the TV screens are full of coppers with head wounds from flying bricks.
Trouble is, no one is ever likely to be 100 per cent satisfied no matter who's in power, as people will always go out of their way to find things to moan and complain about, especially the serial know-it-alls.
Whilst I agree with you that Labour probably could and should be doing better with many things right now, many still seem to think otherwise, no matter how much they actually hate the current lot.
Sadly, the chances of another year like 1997 seem increasingly remote, as social media and indeed misinformation seems to rule the roost nowadays.
Not just politically but socially too.
Pamplemousse
05-04-21, 16:22
Sadly, the chances of another year like 1997 seem increasingly remote, as social media and indeed misinformation seems to rule the roost nowadays.
Not just politically but socially too.
For the record Lencoboy, I viewed New Labour as even worse scum than the Tories; I'd quite happily see Blair, Mandelson and all the other architects of the New Labour project meet the same fate as Mussolini and Clara Petacci. Their attitude towards the disabled especially made them no better than the current lot.
For the record Lencoboy, I viewed New Labour as even worse scum than the Tories; I'd quite happily see Blair, Mandelson and all the other architects of the New Labour project meet the same fate as Mussolini and Clara Petacci. Their attitude towards the disabled especially made them no better than the current lot.
I kind of agree with you in that sense PM.
We people with LDs often disproportionately bore the brunt of a lot of the ludicrous 'zero tolerance' policies they devised, and people with ASD were often fair game for being on the receiving end of ASBOs whilst a lot of the serial so-called 'chavs' often got off scot-free. Ditto for a lot of the hard-right rabble-rousers back then, let alone right now!
There was an incident concerning one family in Northants back in early 2006 (I think) consisting of members with LDs who had been repeatedly terrorised by gangs of yobs in their area that eventually ended up topping themselves as the police (allegedly) didn't seem interested at the time!
And physical restraint by staff was often encouraged on people like us willy-nilly in places like day centres in the name of those farcical ZT policies, with many of the staff members involved often 'playing the victims' themselves!
Plus I think New Labour themselves also imposed some 'cuts' during their tenure, albeit in a more subtle manner compared to almost all of their Tory counterparts both before and after.
Pamplemousse
05-04-21, 18:10
Firstly, LB, you'll have to enlighten me to what "LD" stands for - I is being fick today, my car broke and immediately that's cost me a day's pay.
(sorry - I think I've just got it; "Learning Disabilities"?)
Secondly, the hostility towards those claiming disability benefits began in at least the early 2000s: I can remember us having to appeal against cuts to Mrs. PM's benefits nearly every bloody time it was reviewed - and every time we won, frequently getting an increase too as her condition slowly deteriorated.
I also remember the harrowing distress she was under so often, the sleepless nights where sometimes I'd spend all night up comforting her whilst she was in tears and then lying to my employer the next day saying I'd got the shits from a dodgy takeaway because I was too tired to go into work.
At some point - and my God, I wish I could find the exact quote - that ersatz Tory Blair actually said "benefit scroungers cost hospitals". Setting aside the love of PPIs that got people these shiny new hospitals but at a price many local authorities could barely afford, I remember the sight of the disabled chaining themselves to railings - something I never thought I'd see under a so-called Labour government.
There are many in the Labour movement that think Blair still walks on water. I am definitely not one of them (and for the record, I thought Corbyn was a liability despite some good policies)
Firstly, LB, you'll have to enlighten me to what "LD" stands for - I is being fick today, my car broke and immediately that's cost me a day's pay.
(sorry - I think I've just got it; "Learning Disabilities"?)
Secondly, the hostility towards those claiming disability benefits began in at least the early 2000s: I can remember us having to appeal against cuts to Mrs. PM's benefits nearly every bloody time it was reviewed - and every time we won, frequently getting an increase too as her condition slowly deteriorated.
I also remember the harrowing distress she was under so often, the sleepless nights where sometimes I'd spend all night up comforting her whilst she was in tears and then lying to my employer the next day saying I'd got the shits from a dodgy takeaway because I was too tired to go into work.
At some point - and my God, I wish I could find the exact quote - that ersatz Tory Blair actually said "benefit scroungers cost hospitals". Setting aside the love of PPIs that got people these shiny new hospitals but at a price many local authorities could barely afford, I remember the sight of the disabled chaining themselves to railings - something I never thought I'd see under a so-called Labour government.
There are some in the Labour movement that think Blair still walks on water. I am definitely not one of them.
LD = Learning Disabilities.
Pamplemousse
05-04-21, 18:19
LD = Learning Disabilities.
Thanks - I worked it out as you posted your reply.
Thanks - I worked it out as you posted your reply.
You're very welcome.
The thing you mentioned about people with disabilities chaining themselves to railings in protest against the Blair govt reminds me of the XR mobs doing very similar things during their respective protests over the summer of 2019, but obviously for a very different cause.
MyNameIsTerry
05-04-21, 19:41
You're correct Terry.
I bet the people who took part in the KTB city protests were of pretty much all political angles, and Labour no doubt would have got it in the neck just the same had they been in power right now.
I agree with PM that Labour wouldn't introduce this policy but it's irrelevant to the point that you can't please everyone. Labour will just get trashed by those farther to it's left just as the Tories are getting trashed by those farther to the right.
We are still in a pandemic though and protest should not be condoned just because we might agree with the sentiment behind it. Otherwise you can't complain when the anti vaxxers protest.
I agree with PM that Labour wouldn't introduce this policy but it's irrelevant to the point that you can't please everyone. Labour will just get trashed by those farther to it's left just as the Tories are getting trashed by those farther to the right.
We are still in a pandemic though and protest should not be condoned just because we might agree with the sentiment behind it. Otherwise you can't complain when the anti vaxxers protest.
Exactly, Terry.
Protesting is one of the very last things people should be doing right now in this still-ongoing pandemic, regardless of motives.
Pamplemousse
06-04-21, 11:03
Exactly, Terry.
Protesting is one of the very last things people should be doing right now in this still-ongoing pandemic, regardless of motives.
Respectfully, I disagree. Have you considered the reason this corrupt government has chosen to introduce this draconian bill now is because it could use the pandemic restrictions on assembly to try and suppress public opposition to it?
Patel is a VERY dangerous woman indeed; this bill must be killed, pandemic or no pandemic.
Respectfully, I disagree. Have you considered the reason this corrupt government has chosen to introduce this draconian bill now is because it could use the pandemic restrictions on assembly to try and suppress public opposition to it?
Patel is a VERY dangerous woman indeed; this bill must be killed, pandemic or no pandemic.
OK OK!
MyNameIsTerry
06-04-21, 15:32
Respectfully, I disagree. Have you considered the reason this corrupt government has chosen to introduce this draconian bill now is because it could use the pandemic restrictions on assembly to try and suppress public opposition to it?
Patel is a VERY dangerous woman indeed; this bill must be killed, pandemic or no pandemic.
Trouble is, PM, as important as this issue is to some so is something else to others. So it's protests are exempt from lockdown or not. The law can't be biased. We can't condemn others for believing in the importance of their cause or choose when to apply the law.
Timing of the Bill may be true but she's had time before this to get it through as well so I can't say for sure I believe it.
Trouble is, PM, as important as this issue is to some so is something else to others. So it's protests are exempt from lockdown or not. The law can't be biased. We can't condemn others for believing in the importance of their cause or choose when to apply the law.
Timing of the Bill may be true but she's had time before this to get it through as well so I can't say for sure I believe it.
Again, a no-win situation!
Pamplemousse
06-04-21, 16:17
Trouble is, PM, as important as this issue is to some so is something else to others. So it's protests are exempt from lockdown or not. The law can't be biased. We can't condemn others for believing in the importance of their cause or choose when to apply the law.
Timing of the Bill may be true but she's had time before this to get it through as well so I can't say for sure I believe it.
Well, people are still gathering for anti-lockdown and anti-vaccine protests despite the restrictions; we saw the incredibly tone-deaf response by Cressida Dick to the Sarah Everard vigil.
This bill could make any form of protest illegal in the future; you could be arrested just for being a bit noisy outside the House of Commons.
I try my very best to be a law-abiding citizen, but this is bad law and it needs to be resisted by any and all means possible. That's not a decision I have come to lightly, trust me.
Well, people are still gathering for anti-lockdown and anti-vaccine protests despite the restrictions; we saw the incredibly tone-deaf response by Cressida Dick to the Sarah Everard vigil.
This bill could make any form of protest illegal in the future; you could be arrested just for being a bit noisy outside the House of Commons.
I try my very best to be a law-abiding citizen, but this is bad law and it needs to be resisted by any and all means possible. That's not a decision I have come to lightly, trust me.
My own personal take on this proposed law to be honest, is kind of 'on the fence'.
I kind of agree with the idea of the authorities taking a more hard-line stance on extremely riotous-type protests that get deliberately hijacked by serial baying mobs intent on wreaking havoc simply for kicks and intentionally intimidating innocent members of the general public, including football hooligans and the EDL-type factions, but certainly not 'peaceful' demos.
But on the other hand, such a law in practice is largely unworkable, as not only do we not have sufficient numbers of police officers in general, but those seriously intent on causing chaos and mayhem will always do so anyway.
Let's face it, the authorities were basically powerless to prevent the terrorist attacks in both central London and Manchester during the summer of 2017 from occurring, and likewise the city riots 6 years earlier in August 2011.
So all in all, a very grey area, and indeed, a catch-22 situation.
Pamplemousse
07-04-21, 10:49
Returning to vaccines: whilst today sees the first Moderna vaccine given in the UK, it would appear that some credence is now being given to CSVTs in younger recipients of the OAZ vaccine.
I'm not sure for how much longer various bodies can keep saying "yeah, but it's less risky than getting covid", especially whilst the vaccine is now being given to ever-younger people where this problem seems to be prevalent.
I believe the EMA is due to make a statement today; at some point the MHRA will have to too.
Returning to vaccines: whilst today sees the first Moderna vaccine given in the UK, it would appear that some credence is now being given to CSVTs in younger recipients of the OAZ vaccine.
I'm not sure for how much longer various bodies can keep saying "yeah, but it's less risky than getting covid", especially whilst the vaccine is now being given to ever-younger people where this problem seems to be prevalent.
I believe the EMA is due to make a statement today; at some point the MHRA will have to too.
Well in that case they might as well go the whole hog and cancel the OAZ vaccine period.
Then that would certainly shut the critics up, but then they would probably only move on to a gazillion other things to get indignant over!
Well, people are still gathering for anti-lockdown and anti-vaccine protests despite the restrictions; we saw the incredibly tone-deaf response by Cressida Dick to the Sarah Everard vigil.
This bill could make any form of protest illegal in the future; you could be arrested just for being a bit noisy outside the House of Commons.
I try my very best to be a law-abiding citizen, but this is bad law and it needs to be resisted by any and all means possible. That's not a decision I have come to lightly, trust me.
This is generally in response to your first paragraph where you mentioned anti-vaccine protests.
There have been a couple of high-profile stories in the national news headlines this week about people being killed through being mowed down by dangerous drivers, but the 'cancel culture-ers' aren't demanding laws banning all members of the general public from driving motor vehicles in this country, while the odds of people being mowed down by dangerous drivers or ending up in car crashes themselves are actually far greater than anything untoward caused by the vaccines.
But conversely, just imagine all the mass civil unrest and ensuing carnage if all non-bus/taxi/train drivers were banned from driving, so such legislation would be totally out of the question!
Pamplemousse
07-04-21, 15:41
This is generally in response to your first paragraph where you mentioned anti-vaccine protests.
There have been a couple of high-profile stories in the national news headlines this week about people being killed through being mowed down by dangerous drivers, but the 'cancel culture-ers' aren't demanding laws banning all members of the general public from driving motor vehicles in this country, while the odds of people being mowed down by dangerous drivers or ending up in car crashes themselves are actually far greater than anything untoward caused by the vaccines.
But conversely, just imagine all the mass civil unrest and ensuing carnage if all non-bus/taxi/train drivers were banned from driving, so such legislation would be totally out of the question!
I'm not quite sure what that non-sequitur of a post is meant to convey.
In the meantime AND ON TOPIC,
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56665517
Under-30s are to be offered an alternative Covid jab to the AstraZeneca vaccine due to the evidence linking it to rare blood clots, the UK's vaccine advisory body says.
A review by the drugs regulator MHRA found by the end of March 79 people in the UK suffered rare blood clots after vaccination - 19 of whom died.
The regulator said this was not proof the jab had caused the clots.
But it said the link was getting firmer.
I'm not quite sure what that non-sequitur of a post is meant to convey.
In the meantime AND ON TOPIC,
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56665517
I now concede that giving the under-30s the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines instead is probably a fairly reasonable compromise, especially if proved by the science.
It does also seem that such measures right now are rather appropriate considering stocks of OAZ in the UK are already running a bit low of late anyway, coupled with the first stocks of the Moderna vaccine now having finally landed within our shores, albeit only in Wales ATM, but set to be rolled out elsewhere in the UK in due course.
MyNameIsTerry
07-04-21, 18:28
It seems the EMA are sticking to their previous assessments as there is no guidance about younger groups in their statement:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56665150
They have acknowledged a potential link, as have WHO, but both bodies continue to state the benefit outweighs the risk.
It seems the EMA are sticking to their previous assessments as there is no guidance about younger groups in their statement:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56665150
They have acknowledged a potential link, as have WHO, but both bodies continue to state the benefit outweighs the risk.
One of the 'experts' also stated on today's live rolling Covid page on the BBC website the proverbial 'people are still far more likely to die in car crashes than of vaccine-related complications', let alone Covid itself.
Pamplemousse
07-04-21, 21:55
It seems the EMA are sticking to their previous assessments as there is no guidance about younger groups in their statement:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56665150
They have acknowledged a potential link, as have WHO, but both bodies continue to state the benefit outweighs the risk.
I think we're still talking a 1 in 100,000 risk here, aren't we?
By comparison, if you are a woman of, shall we say 'of voluptuous build' (he typed, blushing) isn't the risk of clotting from the contraceptive pill rather high by comparison?
I think we're still talking a 1 in 100,000 risk here, aren't we?
By comparison, if you are a woman of, shall we say 'of voluptuous build' (he typed, blushing) isn't the risk of clotting from the contraceptive pill rather high by comparison?
Only is she's a smoker, PM.
MyNameIsTerry
08-04-21, 06:03
I think we're still talking a 1 in 100,000 risk here, aren't we?
By comparison, if you are a woman of, shall we say 'of voluptuous build' (he typed, blushing) isn't the risk of clotting from the contraceptive pill rather high by comparison?
Less than that. The Guardian has it at 4 in 1m:
https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/07/astrazeneca-jab-course-correction-could-dent-confidence-beyond-uk?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=16178545635518&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fsocie ty%2F2021%2Fapr%2F07%2Fastrazeneca-jab-course-correction-could-dent-confidence-beyond-uk
So, both the MHRA and EMA are sticking to their original licensing.
It looks to be a matter of risk vs reward when you look at the charts they've put in the article. Only 3 deaths under 30 out of 19 overall but the benefit is overtaken by the higher risk.
MyNameIsTerry
08-04-21, 06:34
Clotting risk in women taking the pill was found to be 1 in 2000 per a report in The Lancet. The US has it at 1 in 1000.
No big mass panic over that one though. It's like some countries should be joining up to NMP to raise some threads on the HA board. :winks:
Clotting risk in women taking the pill was found to be 1 in 2000 per a report in The Lancet. The US has it at 1 in 1000.
No big mass panic over that one though. It's like some countries should be joining up to NMP to raise some threads on the HA board. :winks:
Another very interesting comparison Terry, with some perspective.
But for better or worse, OAZ still continues to be singled out as potentially problematic nevertheless!
MyNameIsTerry
08-04-21, 07:27
Another very interesting comparison Terry, with some perspective.
But for better or worse, OAZ still continues to be singled out as potentially problematic nevertheless!
To be fair I can recall worries about the pill years ago. Some women don't take it due to pre existing conditions. But that is like many meds. I can't take ibuprofen without a doctor's approval since it can trigger asthma attacks yet my GP has had me use it in the past. They wouldn't be there with me at the time should it happen.
Some on here alone will be, or have, taken meds that are far riskier than AZ but the benefit was worth it.
I can see the logic in the decision by JCVI. They have other vaccines to use and the bulk of <30s are at the end of the programme when Moderna and hopefully Valneva are in play. They have time to make some changes.
If they can pinpoint it will Oxford try to tweak it to lower the risk? Or produce a specific formation for use in younger populations only?
Younger people will probably end up getting the single Johnson and Johnson vaccine, I reckon? As and when it becomes available here.
The government tell us they have loadddddssss of Moderna and Pfizer for the under 30s, apparently. We need every vaccine in our arsenal though.
Well where’s all the vaccine for the People in their 40’s? *impatient foot tapping*
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I really doubt that I will go for my second AZ vaccine. The risks are too high. I honestly wish I had never had it.
I really doubt that I will go for my second AZ vaccine. The risks are too high. I honestly wish I had never had it.
But you've done Ok with the 1st one :huh:
FMP
The risks are too high.
No, they aren't. They are exceedingly, incredibly low, lower probably than risks any other medication you've ever taken. I don't understand how you can say the risk is high ?
MyNameIsTerry
08-04-21, 22:05
I really doubt that I will go for my second AZ vaccine. The risks are too high. I honestly wish I had never had it.
You might not get the same one.
Have you seen how low the risks are? And what about the risks of Covid? Blood clots are caused at far higher rates if you get Covid.
MyNameIsTerry
08-04-21, 22:09
No, they aren't. They are exceedingly, incredibly low, lower probably than risks any other medication you've ever taken. I don't understand how you can say the risk is high ?
Carys, what happened to your thread? I hope it wasn't misused by anyone.
Carys, what happened to your thread? I hope it wasn't misused by anyone.
Noooooo, I deleted it, it was being avoided so I decided to have done with it, nobody else in a similar positive frame of mind I guess.
But you've done Ok with the 1st one :huh:
FMP
But does that mean there are no risks with the second one? I just have a bad feeling about it.
MyNameIsTerry
09-04-21, 00:21
But does that mean there are no risks with the second one? I just have a bad feeling about it.
But remember the odds of many meds we take. I've taken Ibuprofen despite something like 20% of asthmatics can have an asthma attack from it. And my GP had no concerns whatsoever and wasn't going to be there when I took it.
A relevant one for women, not necessarily saying for you as you are entitled to privacy, is that 1 in 2000 women take this risk on the pill. OZ is a 1 in 250,000 risk. Yet look how many take the pill?
If this was a typical HA worry, lets say some form of cancer, wouldn't we be saying how incredibly rare 1 in 250,000 is? It looks bigger because of a) such a mass rollout in a short time (lets face it, if 19 deaths we spread over a year would this much attention be given it outside of medical circles?), b) anything COVID is big news (bet it won't be in a few years when we have all moved on :winks:) and c) the weird flip flopping behaviour of certain countries.
But does that mean there are no risks with the second one? I just have a bad feeling about it.
IMHO, if you would have had a negative reaction, it would have happened already. It's the same thing, just the 2nd dose so :winks: I get the apprehension and anxiety but again, the benefit far outweighs the risk and it will take a huge weight off your shoulders knowing you're protected. Heck, anything is better than worrying about every moron you run into in public not following the guidelines IMO. I posted that the wife and I had some side effects from the Pfizer vaccine but two days of feeling kinda yuck is well worth the peace of mind.
Positive thoughts
Rainbow it will be quite a few weeks before you have (or are due to have) your 2nd jab. I'm sure there will be a lot more clarity about risks and more data about further cases should there be any by the time you get your invitation? Plenty of time to consider what you want to do.
Glad that you have had your 1st jab with no ill effects..My daughter will be 1 month short of her 30th birthday when she is due her 2nd OAZ jab and she was really worried at first and said she didn't want to have it but she's coming round to the idea now and really wants as much protection as possible because she is terrified of getting Long Covid.
Why not put your worry and anxiety on hold until nearer the time and see what the advice is then?
Noooooo, I deleted it, it was being avoided so I decided to have done with it, nobody else in a similar positive frame of mind I guess.
Carys..why not reinstate your thread? It's a great topic..I think yesterday was a bit of a downer for everyone on here?
Rainbow it will be quite a few weeks before you have (or are due to have) your 2nd jab. I'm sure there will be a lot more clarity about risks and more data about further cases should there be any by the time you get your invitation? Plenty of time to consider what you want to do.
Glad that you have had your 1st jab with no ill effects..My daughter will be 1 month short of her 30th birthday when she is due her 2nd OAZ jab and she was really worried at first and said she didn't want to have it but she's coming round to the idea now and really wants as much protection as possible because she is terrified of getting Long Covid.
Why not put your worry and anxiety on hold until nearer the time and see what the advice is then?
I haven't totally decided that I won't take it but I worry that my risks could be higher as my mum had her first stroke when she was 43 and the second at 45 which was fatal. I was advised not to take the contraceptive pill by my gp after she died because of the risks. I also have a condition called lipoedema which is abnormal fat deposits in my legs. I have bad circulation in my legs so worry that I am more at risk.
There haven't been any cases reported after the 2nd jab but I appreciate your worries. You still have quite a few weeks in which to see how things progress and to make your decision.
Have you talked to your GP about this?
MyNameIsTerry
10-04-21, 18:21
A good example of comparing the clotting risk to everyday life from an article I read today:
On Saturday a scientist advising the Government said any blot clots associated with the J&J vaccine are “extraordinarily rare events”.
Professor Peter Openshaw, a member of the Covid-19 clinical information network, told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: “We still don’t know whether they are directly related and caused by the vaccine but it seems possible that they could be.
“It wouldn’t be surprising to find the J&J, the Janssen vaccine, also causes rare blood clots because it’s based on an adenovirus technology which is not that far away from the technology being used in the AstraZeneca vaccine.”
Asked if he is concerned it could undermine public confidence in coronavirus jabs, Prof Openshaw said: “These are extraordinarily rare events and there is no medicine that is going to be completely free of side effects but this is on the scale of the risk of adverse outcome you would expect if you get into a car and drive 250 miles, and many of us wouldn’t blink before taking that risk.”
MyNameIsTerry
10-04-21, 18:56
I haven't totally decided that I won't take it but I worry that my risks could be higher as my mum had her first stroke when she was 43 and the second at 45 which was fatal. I was advised not to take the contraceptive pill by my gp after she died because of the risks. I also have a condition called lipoedema which is abnormal fat deposits in my legs. I have bad circulation in my legs so worry that I am more at risk.
Like pulisa says I think you should get advice from your GP. The risk of blood clot in patients admitted to ICUs with Covid is very high and stroke risk is increased. Your GP may tell you one risk outweighs the other.
Yeah, ask your GP Rainbow, to clarify any medical issues. I think also, and I might be wrong as this is of course a dynamic situation and information is changing - if you've had one dose, and were totally fine, then the second dose isn't a risk.
Pamplemousse
10-04-21, 19:05
I haven't totally decided that I won't take it but I worry that my risks could be higher as my mum had her first stroke when she was 43 and the second at 45 which was fatal. I was advised not to take the contraceptive pill by my gp after she died because of the risks. I also have a condition called lipoedema which is abnormal fat deposits in my legs. I have bad circulation in my legs so worry that I am more at risk.
Oh, my. I can understand your concerns reading that.
I can sympathise with the lipoedema; it's not the same disease, but Mrs. PM had stage 4 lymphoedema in both her legs.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.