View Full Version : Possible cirrhosis
I recently had an issue with marks on my breast which I linked to fears I was having with my liver. There was a tailspin and that fear turned into ibc which the breast specialist assured me was not. Dr did link this to possible Lyme infection but that’s another story
My liver story. Age 33. Drank in high school, moderately after I had my daughter but my husband and I are wine people. So wine with dinner, wine just because. I have horrible anxiety and I thought it helped with that. It seemed to calm panic attacks and calm me down. Wine became a daily thing but it was white and spritzers so I didn’t worry. Three years ago liver tests were a little high. I stopped drinking for two weeks and everything went back to normal. Then i cut back a lot and then had some issues with my colon so two years ago I had a catscan done. Liver totally normal. Cut down again and then quarantine happened. I really used alcohol to cope with everything. Never drunk I think because I never drank straight wine. In all honesty a rough day of drinking was a two bottles of wine over a 12 hour period mixed with 7 or 8 bottles of seltzer. I realized my palms were red which I have never looked at before. I googled this and saw cirrhosis. Then I thought my ankle had edema. Liver enzymes slightly high again. Cirrhosis is all I can think of now. Itching. But my doctor said it would be highly irregular even with heavy drinking to go from a normal liver to cirrhosis in 2/3 years and he’s not doing much to help me figure this out. It’s been a month and no ultrasound or anything. Just said watch the numbers and we’ll see. Dr doesn’t think my ankle is edema and doesn’t see an issue with my red hands. The itching could be skin related j was told. Now I noticed a lump on my hand which could be from some disorder common in cirrhosis. I did give up alcohol 100 percent and can honestly say not a panic attack or anxiety attack since I did. Never going back to that again. I was using wine to ease anxiety when in reality it was causing it. I’m so afraid. How can I get the dr to believe me and check for cirrhosis! Should I get a new dr?
I'm going to point out some highlights that discount this irrational fear and it sounds like you have a good doctor to me!
two years ago I had a catscan done. Liver totally normal....... I googled this and saw cirrhosis.....Cirrhosis is all I can think of now.... my doctor said it would be highly irregular even with heavy drinking to go from a normal liver to cirrhosis in 2/3 years and he’s not doing much to help me figure this out....Dr doesn’t think my ankle is edema and doesn’t see an issue with my red hands.
FMP
Thank you. I really was drinking a lot of wine spritzers to ease anxiety and honestly stopped after the red hands only to realize wow I feel great. Like zero stomach issues, heart burn, healthier appetite, more energy, sleeping better. But I asked a few people and some of them said they developed cirrhosis in only a year which terrified me beyond belief. I had never heard of anyone getting it so quickly. Then my fear of what if the cat scan missed it 2 years ago. What if the ultrasound missed it three years ago? I almost didn’t take the Lyme medicine because I’m so worried about the effects on my liver but felt so bad I had to.
also scary. A weird what i assumed was a callus on my palm but someone online linked it to cirrhosis.
nomorepanic
28-06-21, 19:19
I think you are googling too much and finding what you want to :whistles:
Google is my worst enemy! Itching, red palms, this what I assumed was a callus, all have me terrified of liver cirrhosis. My wine intake was pretty heavy and I’ve read that short term can cause cirrhosis so I’m constantly checking my skin for redness or focusing so much on the itching. I’m super pale so I keep telling myself yes sometimes I’ll get redness
WorryRaptor
28-06-21, 23:56
Google seems to link everything to cirrhosis! This is probably because advanced liver damage tends to mess with lots of different functions in your body (not saying you have that!). I know the fear around cirrhosis, have been there, and still go there sometimes.
You could have red, itchy palms for lots and lots of reasons that are not cirrhosis :) Like you mentioned, you're pale, so you probably always had naturally red palms and only noticed them now. Palmar erythema showing up because of liver cirrhosis would almost certainly have lots of other symptoms to go alongside it, none of which you mentioned having.
You mentioned people developing cirrhosis in a year. Now, this is so, so, so unlikely unless 1: their liver was already had early grade cirrhosis (which can be halted or sometimes even reversed) and 2: they continued doing something that was causing harm to their liver - drinking, starvation, overeating, undereating, overmedicating etc. Even then, it's SO unlikely in a year. It would have to be really extreme. You doctor is right, that it would be super unlikely to happen.
You mentioned that you had elevated enzymes. They can fluctuate for many reasons such as infections, medication, or even a night of drinking. It doesn't mean you've got long lasting damage to your liver :)
I have a fatty liver from many years of being underweight, overweight, underweight again, and constantly taking painkillers for chronic pain. I threw quite a lot at my liver for 10 years, and it's got some small signs of early damage now. It showed up about three years ago on an ultrasound. I'd imagine more advanced disease would show up on a scan too, along with your bloodwork etc, so don't worry too much about anything getting missed.
Cirrhosis is scary, especially when all you see are stories about end stage. I've been down that rabbit hole, believe me! Cirrhosis goes through quite a few stages though, and some of those earlier stages can be reversed, or halted if you remove the thing that was causing the damage.
You've done the best thing for your liver by cutting out the wine. Because you've stopped drinking alcohol, you've given it a chance to heal (and you probably don't even have any damage). Livers are amazing at healing. There are even studies showing that some early scarring in cirrhosis gradually heals over when the liver is given a chance to do it. It's not a case of your liver being great one year and then a shrivelled up walnut the next.
I hope that helps in some way!
Let us know how you get on :)
I am here to tell you that as a woman you can not go by skin symptoms when it comes to cirrhosis because a lot of them happen due to high estrogen. As a woman you can have this issue without cirrhosis being the cause of the high estrogen.
In 2017 I started having all kinds of weird stuff popping up on my skin and I went to the doctor who scared me by saying I had to have liver disease. In fact they bounced me from specialist to specialist and each one thought I had liver disease and even though I would tell them I didn’t they would check my liver anyways. I have Palmer erythema in both palms, 7 spider angioma and a few other things that are seen in cirrhosis but I do not have it. I do have fatty liver and my liver is enlarged but other then that my liver enzymes are perfect, and all the many scans they gave me show nothing else.
Just because your palms are red doesn’t mean it’s the palmer erythema that is seen in liver disease. A lot of people think they have it simply cause they have red palms but they don’t. Your palms are red with Palmer but also molted.
Finally I’m gonna second the above comment. The liver is an amazing organ. It can take a lot of abuse and it is miraculous in that it can heal itself from a certain point. You can even lose 80% of your liver and if the remaining 20% is healthy it will regenerate!! It will literally grow back in a matter of weeks!! Liver damage happens for all kinds of reasons, some that can be avoided and some that can’t but it takes A LOT to damage it, if you treat your liver well it will keep you going. A lot of people with cirrhosis live long lives and end up dying from something else unrelated to their livers. You don’t have liver disease but I said all that anyways so you have some facts and not just doom that you read on Google.
My hands are molted sometimes and other times look totally normal but in all honesty the molted happens a lot on my body. Even the front of my hands gets like that quite often. I just wish the doctor would take me seriously and get the ultrasound done already so I can breathe again. Last time I messed up and took the clear scan as a hey I’m good clear liver back to normal daily wine life. Now I feel great alcohol free. The derm doesn’t think any of this has to do with my liver. The breast specialist I saw said the veins are from to sum it up my gigantic pale boobs in a bad bra. I did read other things would be off in blood work with cirrhosis which eases my mind since only one thing was high and everything else was normal ranges. The itching kind of moves everywhere which scares me. It’s hard because no one takes me seriously at all anymore. I’ve dealt with colon cancer fears two years ago which is when I had the catscan of my liver and it was within normal ranges on the catscan. Which I’m guessing wouldn’t have been that way with cirrhosis or fatty liver.
My hands are molted sometimes and other times look totally normal but in all honesty the molted happens a lot on my body. Even the front of my hands gets like that quite often. I just wish the doctor would take me seriously and get the ultrasound done already so I can breathe again. Last time I messed up and took the clear scan as a hey I’m good clear liver back to normal daily wine life. Now I feel great alcohol free. The derm doesn’t think any of this has to do with my liver. The breast specialist I saw said the veins are from to sum it up my gigantic pale boobs in a bad bra. I did read other things would be off in blood work with cirrhosis which eases my mind since only one thing was high and everything else was normal ranges. The itching kind of moves everywhere which scares me. It’s hard because no one takes me seriously at all anymore. I’ve dealt with colon cancer fears two years ago which is when I had the catscan of my liver and it was within normal ranges on the catscan. Which I’m guessing wouldn’t have been that way with cirrhosis or fatty liver.
Everything you wrote there is self-reassurance that you're fine. As far as people not taking you seriously? Well... read your posts. Your anxiety and irrational spiraling are quite apparent in your written words so I would have to imagine it's the same or amplified in real life ;) The key here is to get a grip on your HA so you can stop yourself from falling into the rabbit hole over every little niggle.
FMP
Thank you so much to everyone that answered. I keep picturing how much I drank, googling the red palms, focusing on the itching, and then bam I’m reading about the rise of women my age with cirrhosis. I was able to give up my daily wine instantly once I realized the red palms and freaked about my liver. Went to bed after finishing some wine and woke up dumped whatever was left in the glass out and never looked back. Honestly within a few hours I felt so much better! Health anxiety has been strong BUT minus the alcohol zero panic attacks.
So I’ve been in a bad bad spiral of ha this month. Terrified of cirrhosis. Just recently posted about this issue. Itching, red palms, some veins. Just as a finally calm myself down I look at my calves to see three dots on one and one on the other. I’ve been scratching them all day long and without looking assuming from the feel they were mosquito bites. So now all night long I get to play the game “irritated mosquito bites? Allergy to Lyme medicine? Or spider angioma/blood issue/ related to cirrhosis” It’s entirely possible I just really have never paid attention to mosquito bites before or that I’ve never been so hyper focused on itching that I’ve scratched so much but talking myself down is easier said than done. Thanks for letting me vent and type out how I’m feeling.
Spider angioma look nothing like a mosquito bite. I have 7 of them and they are distinct looking. It looks like a purple/ish cherry angioma with a bunch of tiny broken blood vessels spreading out from the center. The center looks like spider body and the veins look like the legs.
Also, I responded on your other post and you responded about the Palmer erythema saying your palms sometimes look red and molted but it goes away. Palmer erythema doesn’t work like that. It doesn’t come and go or change in intensity. I have had it for years now and it’s never went away and it’s never changed and having molted skin on other parts of your body have nothing to do with Palmer. I have livedo reticulars on my arms and legs some on my abdomen, I have had it since I was a teenager, It gets worse when I’m cold but it has nothing to do with Palmer erythema.
nomorepanic
30-06-21, 15:58
Hi
This is just a courtesy reply to let you know that your thread was merged with another of your threads.
Please when posting on similar topics add it onto your previous post rather than starting a new one.
It is nothing personal it is just to make it easier for people to follow your story and to give you advice as a whole.
I went to the breast clinic for the marks on my breasts which I thought were ibc. If these marks had been liver related do you think they would have put the two together there. I can’t think of a doctor with training in every single field so I feel like one doctor catching one thing could be missed by another.
Ok so I’ve been writing on here a lot apologies! This post combines my two so I didn’t know where to write it. Went to derm for what I described as edema, red palms, and boob veins which were purple patches which I figured was cirrhosis. She did a liver panel. One thing was high alt. I was a heavy wine drinker so gave that up. Now I’m worried that I went to the breast clinic for an ibc fear. Regular doctor the 5th thank God for a full checkup but I’m worried that neither doctor put together the pieces of the purple veins on my breasts as cirrhosis. Would a breast clinic know that those spots could be liver related or related to something wrong inside my body? Could I be seeing the wrong specialists? It’s so scary because I should have left the breast clinic feeling relief that she said it’s not ibc so I had my Lyme rash at the time so I’m like oh man she probably didn’t notice the purple patches. She didn’t ask about my drinking. What’s the point of paying for specialists when I’m going to inspect my body every five seconds almost seeking to prove them wrong. Somehow I’ve ever turned the callus on Hand to my cirrhosis. Mosquito bites the other night! The fifth can’t come soon enough.
I went to the breast clinic for the marks on my breasts which I thought were ibc. If these marks had been liver related do you think they would have put the two together there. I can’t think of a doctor with training in every single field so I feel like one doctor catching one thing could be missed by another.
Time for a 2nd, 3rd and 4th opinion and then doubt that :whistles:
FMP
You’re right. I left feeling ok and now I’m like wait this dr was a liver specialist so she wouldn’t know. I need to breathe
You’re right. I left feeling ok and now I’m like wait this dr was a liver specialist so she wouldn’t know. I need to breathe
And yet you posted another thread :whistles:
FMP
It feels hopeless like ok got cleared by the breast dr so all this stuff must be my liver. I keep trying to remind myself that I did the right thing giving up alcohol. Living in Lyme limbo isn’t helping me and my constant focus on my health either. Bullseye rash. Blood work for Lyme that wasn’t positive but had some positives which makes zero sense to me but being on medicine for something they won’t officially say you have for someone with ha makes me think oh crap do they know what they are doing
nomorepanic
03-07-21, 14:44
Hi
This is just a courtesy reply to let you know that your thread was merged with another of your threads.
Please when posting on similar topics add it onto your previous post rather than starting a new one.
It is nothing personal it is just to make it easier for people to follow your story and to give you advice as a whole.
So I just got back from the dr. He ordered the liver ultrasound to check for cirrhosis. He also ordered bloodwork. Am I being overly sensitive? He ordered like a full panel of everything including hiv and hepatitis. I’m happily married and never had crazy sexual adventures so I’m worried he’s judging me based on the fact I was honest about how much I drank. I drank way too much wine for the past few years and was worried about cirrhosis. He did an ultrasound 3 years ago because my liver came back high (again my wine) and after giving it up the numbers went back to normal and ultrasound was normal. He said cut back a bit but more jokingly. I reached out when my hands turned red and he seemed much more assuring on the phone than he did in person. Like he mentioned the purple broken veins caused by cirrhosis and then didn’t ask to see the ones I gave on my breasts. He knows my husbands family and now I have this fear he thinks I’m some train wreck drunk that is living a dangerous life which other than way too much wine while cleaning up or cooking (which I 100 percent gave up no problem 7 weeks ago) the most dangerous thing about my lifestyle is my love of internet shopping. I mean I feel like had he been less thorough I wouldn’t have been happy but this all seemed a little judgmental.
Hmmm. tbh it sounds like you are judging yourself here.
If I presented with a swollen wrist after falling off a highwire, would the GP be judging me for being stupid to go up there if he sent me for an x-ray, or just checking if it was broken?
By your own account you have plenty of risk factors for anything he might be checking for (which is entirely your choice, not a matter for anyone to judge) and it's possible you are projecting your own thoughts onto the doctor.
You sound as if you have a bit of an addictive type of personality - "Way too much wine" and "love of internet shopping" which I suspect means you end up ordering loads! So I wonder what's going on that you are needing to not think about? Did you notice you said, "MY wine," not THE wine, or just wine? Is it the only time you get for you?
If I were you I'd swallow my pride and ask if there's anyone you could see for a bit of counselling. You've made some good lifestyle changes and a bit of support with it would be really helpful right now.
It is crazy that you said the my wine thing. I said repeatedly it was the only time I had for myself. I didn’t mean online shopping in an addictive way just going for the expensive shoes instead of the regularly priced ones sometimes. I think I am judging myself a lot. I feel like I drank a lot since my clear cat scan two years ago and my clear ultrasound 3 years ago. Like I wasted that clean bill of health and now I will have to leave my kids without a mom because of my drinking. Red palms, purple popped blood vessels and itching back could be showing me that I have late stage cirrhosis and soon they won’t have a mom.
I have all those skin symptoms and more and do not have cirrhosis. Don’t jump to conclusions (((hugs)))
Thank you so much. I’ve been such a mess. I know tomorrow when I get the ultrasound I’m
Going to be staring at the screen imagining I know what I’m looking at crying. Last time I could have sworn I saw a tumor. It was an ovary.
Aw bless you. Does sound like it would be good to get some support with the drinking if you feel ready to tackle it. Hugs. xxx
So I had an ultrasound and was diagnosed with fatty liver disease. I’ve read that ultrasounds miss cirrhosis very frequently so I don’t feel relieved at all. I didn’t get the blood work back yet and the doctor didn’t give me much guidance as far as what to do now. I think it was from drinking which I have given up but I was just told to see a gastro doctor. Not even a liver doctor. Now I’m losing it with anxiety that my cirrhosis was missed
nomorepanic
14-07-21, 17:56
Hi
This is just a courtesy reply to let you know that your thread was merged with another of your threads.
Please when posting on similar topics add it onto your previous post rather than starting a new one.
It is nothing personal it is just to make it easier for people to follow your story and to give you advice as a whole.
So I had an ultrasound and was diagnosed with fatty liver disease. I’ve read that ultrasounds miss cirrhosis very frequently so I don’t feel relieved at all. I didn’t get the blood work back yet and the doctor didn’t give me much guidance as far as what to do now. I think it was from drinking which I have given up but I was just told to see a gastro doctor. Not even a liver doctor. Now I’m losing it with anxiety that my cirrhosis was missed
Fatty liver is extremely common and it can be reversed by not drinking, eating a healthy diet and exercising. I reversed my fatty liver in less then 30 days.
I’m sorry that you don’t believe the results. Maybe nothing will convince you that you don’t have cirrhosis in that case.
I gave up drinking towards the end of may which is what scares me the most. It’s been almost two months and the ultrasound still shows issues. I shouldn’t have googled ultrasound missing cirrhosis. Thank you. I had been drinking heavily so maybe that’s why it’s taking longer.
I gave up drinking towards the end of may which is what scares me the most. It’s been almost two months and the ultrasound still shows issues. I shouldn’t have googled ultrasound missing cirrhosis. Thank you. I had been drinking heavily so maybe that’s why it’s taking longer.
Okay but drinking is not the only cause of fatty liver though. It’s also caused by diet and lack of exercise. Fatty liver doesn’t progress to fibrosis and cirrhosis for everyone either. There are more then 3 million people here in the US diagnosed with fatty liver every year and you can bet there are far more walking around with it undiagnosed.
You don’t have cirrhosis. You have to accept that fact and move on.
I have a vacation with my kids tomorrow to celebrate my little guys birthday and I am going to take your advice. Move on and enjoy it. I’m not going to let fatty liver fear control my trip but I will make the healthiest food choices I can during the time.
I have a vacation with my kids tomorrow to celebrate my little guys birthday and I am going to take your advice. Move on and enjoy it. I’m not going to let fatty liver fear control my trip but I will make the healthiest food choices I can during the time.
Yesssss, that’s the right way to think (((hugs))) enjoy your vacation!!!!!
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