View Full Version : Does anyone think a fourth national lockdown is inevitable?
Sadly Covid cases, hospitalisations and deaths in the UK are now all on an upward trajectory once again, plus there is now conflicting information about the efficacy of jabs from various media outlets with the BBC saying that jabs still remain mostly effective against the Delta variant but ITV implying that the amount of infections amongst both unjabbed and double jabbed is now pretty much even Stephens.
I know this is a highly controversial topic and I really can't help being so pessimistic right now but can anyone see a fourth national lockdown in this country coming in the not-too-distant future, especially as we're still endlessly fighting a losing battle against this wretched pandemic?
BTW, I'm on the fence right now and neither for nor against one.
I really don't see how to avoid it - the numbers are going up here (to) and people that are vaccinated are getting the variants. Mask mandate is back and social distance, as well.
I really don't see how to avoid it - the numbers are going up here (to) and people that are vaccinated are getting the variants. Mask mandate is back and social distance, as well.
It does make me wonder if there has been any cover-ups concerning vaccine efficacy (or lack of it), or if it's being played down by the antivaxxers to justify jab refusal?
I can certainly sense something rather odd going on right now.
The government does keep stating there won't be anymore lockdowns. Then again, given how the UK government is about as trustworthy as a lawyer with a bloody jacket, I suppose its possible a fourth one could come..
The government does keep stating there won't be anymore lockdowns. Then again, given how the UK government is about as trustworthy as a lawyer with a bloody jacket, I suppose its possible a fourth one could come..
They've also messed around with the culminative stats for vaccinations once again today on the dashboard site, which means the total number of first jabs so far has now been reduced back down to 87-odd% whereas yesterday it was 89.6%.
Surely they did a very similar thing a few weeks back which again resulted in the total number of jabs being deducted from the tally.
Why they have to keep repeatedly chopping and changing is totally beyond me.
I was also having similar digs at ZOE a few weeks back over similar practices of endless chopping and changing.
Even Ferguson, the main mastermind behind our previous lockdowns announced a couple of weeks back that he doesn't believe national lockdowns would be warranted anymore, yet about 3 weeks or so previous he was one of a few professors warning us of the likelihood of 100k+ cases per day, but I wouldn't mind betting you he'll end up changing his mind and insisting in yet another national lockdown over the coming days, especially if things start getting really dire once again.
Little wonder I'm feeling so confused and despondent of late.
elizabethalice
19-08-21, 18:43
It's very difficult isn't it. I'm not sure if they will do a full lockdown again, but yeah I definitely don't trust the gov when they say they won't! I think they will likely bring back some restrictions this winter - how many I guess depends on what happens with case numbers. At the very least I think they'll bring back masks (which i don't think they should have got rid of tbh).
Its difficult to know if we are going to reach a peak. We know that people who have had covid and/ or are vaccinated have some immunity to getting it (and fortunately are very unlikely to get seriously ill), so surely it will peak at some point. I guess the main worry is whether a new variant will come along.
One thing to note is that variants are unlikely to go all or nothing - we won't get one that is completely resistant to the vaccines right away, which is promising, as it will give scientists time to tweak them.
I guess we just plod on and see what happens!
They are on about a booster jab now.. Then there is the flu jab coming up. It looks like a never ending thing.
No ending at all by the sound of it!!!!!
They've also messed around with the culminative stats for vaccinations once again today on the dashboard site, which means the total number of first jabs so far has now been reduced back down to 87-odd% whereas yesterday it was 89.6%.
Surely they did a very similar thing a few weeks back which again resulted in the total number of jabs being deducted from the tally.
Why they have to keep repeatedly chopping and changing is totally beyond me.
I was also having similar digs at ZOE a few weeks back over similar practices of endless chopping and changing.
Even Ferguson, the main mastermind behind our previous lockdowns announced a couple of weeks back that he doesn't believe national lockdowns would be warranted anymore, yet about 3 weeks or so previous he was one of a few professors warning us of the likelihood of 100k+ cases per day, but I wouldn't mind betting you he'll end up changing his mind and insisting in yet another national lockdown over the coming days, especially if things start getting really dire once again.
Little wonder I'm feeling so confused and despondent of late.
Why not give the obsessive analysing of statistics a break, Lenco? You won't be able to change anything or reassure yourself about the future. It's a pointless and thankless exercise. Even the scientists are divided and uncertain.
It's very difficult isn't it. I'm not sure if they will do a full lockdown again, but yeah I definitely don't trust the gov when they say they won't! I think they will likely bring back some restrictions this winter - how many I guess depends on what happens with case numbers. At the very least I think they'll bring back masks (which i don't think they should have got rid of tbh).
Its difficult to know if we are going to reach a peak. We know that people who have had covid and/ or are vaccinated have some immunity to getting it (and fortunately are very unlikely to get seriously ill), so surely it will peak at some point. I guess the main worry is whether a new variant will come along.
One thing to note is that variants are unlikely to go all or nothing - we won't get one that is completely resistant to the vaccines right away, which is promising, as it will give scientists time to tweak them.
I guess we just plod on and see what happens!
I think it was extremely foolish and shortsighted of the gov to say that there would never be another lockdown...but then there is always an "unless"..
No boosters planned yet. What happened to the September start up?
The new football season will be a big test for the vaccines.
I think it was extremely foolish and shortsighted of the gov to say that there would never be another lockdown...but then there is always an "unless"..
No boosters planned yet. What happened to the September start up?
The new football season will be a big test for the vaccines.
Exactly. It's as if many people have now simply stopped caring about Covid for good and reverted back to many of their old habits.
I am also wondering about both the boosters and the 'tweaked' jabs, both of which the govt and the media seem to have gone quiet over.
What the govt should have said regarding the prospects of any further lockdowns is 'hopefully not but we can never say never', rather than definitely 'never again'.
You're also right that it's perhaps time for me to chill out a bit and stop getting too embroiled in the daily stats, etc.
I don't see the point of continuing to release daily stats if we are all meant to be learning to live with Covid? Why not just alert those living in hotspots?
I don't see the point of continuing to release daily stats if we are all meant to be learning to live with Covid? Why not just alert those living in hotspots?
A similar analogy being the fact that most of us already have no choice but to learn to live with crime whilst the nation's day-to-day crime stats most certainly aren't published on a daily basis.
Ditto for daily rates of say, job losses.
MyNameIsTerry
19-08-21, 22:53
Lenco, the Vax rates have to change because they were based on adult population and now they have started jabbing younger people.
Pamplemousse
20-08-21, 00:00
I would say it's inevitable. Only a fool would say "no more lockdowns". Oh, wait...
But as the British become ever more stupid, aided and abetted by such people as these -
https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/08/deep-dive-into-stupid-meet-the-growing-group-that-rejects-germ-theory/
- I doubt it would be enforceable, unless we put troops on the streets.
But Johnson would never do that as he hates being unpopular. Anyway, those that die "would have died anyway'.
WiredIncorrectly
20-08-21, 00:59
More waves are a definite. We want to watch that the virus doesn't evolve into a nasty variant. I believe the fear of allowing the virus to circulate is this could happen. The concern for the Government is the strain on the NHS, but those numbers are rising too now so who knows what's next.
The media is awash with the Taliban news. The Government are hoping people continue as normal, and with the lack of reporting things "must be good". Which isn't the case.
I check daily stats, and while I don't worry, I do see things going south.
But keep this in mind, right now testing numbers are down, so the actual true case of positive cases isn't known. You can do some math to make a rough estimate, and it's higher than 33k cases :roflmao: Not sure if this has been done on purpose to keep the positive numbers lower. It's possible.
Check the testing graph from the official stats: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/
Now isn't the time to bury heads in sand and hope it goes away.
Sadly Covid cases, hospitalisations and deaths in the UK are now all on an upward trajectory once again, plus there is now conflicting information about the efficacy of jabs from various media outlets with the BBC saying that jabs still remain mostly effective against the Delta variant but ITV implying that the amount of infections amongst both unjabbed and double jabbed is now pretty much even Stephens.
I know this is a highly controversial topic and I really can't help being so pessimistic right now but can anyone see a fourth national lockdown in this country coming in the not-too-distant future, especially as we're still endlessly fighting a losing battle against this wretched pandemic?
BTW, I'm on the fence right now and neither for nor against one.
Very good post I agree about the vaccines and absolutely no need for vaccine passports. We seem to be finding out more about delta in UK than world wide policy. Do I see another lockdown though? Hopefully not but Australia is stuck in lockdown after lockdown? They are now back peddling on booster jabs and they say that healthy people shouldn’t have got the jab hence the higher case numbers. Look at the mess in Israel with vaccines?
They've also messed around with the culminative stats for vaccinations once again today on the dashboard site, which means the total number of first jabs so far has now been reduced back down to 87-odd% whereas yesterday it was 89.6%.
Surely they did a very similar thing a few weeks back which again resulted in the total number of jabs being deducted from the tally.
Why they have to keep repeatedly chopping and changing is totally beyond me.
I was also having similar digs at ZOE a few weeks back over similar practices of endless chopping and changing.
Even Ferguson, the main mastermind behind our previous lockdowns announced a couple of weeks back that he doesn't believe national lockdowns would be warranted anymore, yet about 3 weeks or so previous he was one of a few professors warning us of the likelihood of 100k+ cases per day, but I wouldn't mind betting you he'll end up changing his mind and insisting in yet another national lockdown over the coming days, especially if things start getting really dire once again.
Little wonder I'm feeling so confused and despondent of late.
I never knew that perhaps they are meddling with the numbers then as I think more than ten percent have not had it I would say closer to 15-20%.
Exactly. It's as if many people have now simply stopped caring about Covid for good and reverted back to many of their old habits.
I am also wondering about both the boosters and the 'tweaked' jabs, both of which the govt and the media seem to have gone quiet over.
What the govt should have said regarding the prospects of any further lockdowns is 'hopefully not but we can never say never', rather than definitely 'never again'.
You're also right that it's perhaps time for me to chill out a bit and stop getting too embroiled in the daily stats, etc.
Given most people don’t get COVID twice don’t you think it will run out of people to infect eventually?
MyNameIsTerry
20-08-21, 06:47
I never knew that perhaps they are meddling with the numbers then as I think more than ten percent have not had it I would say closer to 15-20%.
It's an average. Some areas have been well ahead for ages and some are well behind even now.
We are crawling up to 80% in my city. It looks like 20% of over 18s won't be bothering. If I look at my brothers it's 90%.
MyNameIsTerry
20-08-21, 06:48
I thought Chris Whitty had already clarified this when it was first asked? No more lockdowns unless it changes and they are warranted.
Lenco, the Vax rates have to change because they were based on adult population and now they have started jabbing younger people.
Then surely culminative jab rates should have shown further increases not subtractions.
More waves are a definite. We want to watch that the virus doesn't evolve into a nasty variant. I believe the fear of allowing the virus to circulate is this could happen. The concern for the Government is the strain on the NHS, but those numbers are rising too now so who knows what's next.
The media is awash with the Taliban news. The Government are hoping people continue as normal, and with the lack of reporting things "must be good". Which isn't the case.
I check daily stats, and while I don't worry, I do see things going south.
But keep this in mind, right now testing numbers are down, so the actual true case of positive cases isn't known. You can do some math to make a rough estimate, and it's higher than 33k cases :roflmao: Not sure if this has been done on purpose to keep the positive numbers lower. It's possible.
Check the testing graph from the official stats: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/
Now isn't the time to bury heads in sand and hope it goes away.
ZOE daily case stats, which I think bypass the 'official' rates of daily testing are still higher at around 45k.
I know they're far from perfect and their stats tend to lag behind by at least 4 days, but I don't think there's any definitive measure right now. Even the ONS stats are always at least a week behind.
You're also right in the sense that while the constant news reporting on the Afghanistan crisis right now most rightly does take precedence, it does on the face of it seem that all things Covid have taken more of a back seat over the past week or two.
MyNameIsTerry
20-08-21, 07:39
Then surely culminative jab rates should have shown further increases not subtractions.
If you are looking at the vaccination grid it will go down since the number of potential people that can be jabbed increases.
Yes, overall numbers increase. Have you seen them reduce? Can't say I checked that but the grid has dipped since it's a % of all available.
If you are looking at the vaccination grid it will go down since the number of potential people that can be jabbed increases.
Yes, overall numbers increase. Have you seen them reduce? Can't say I checked that but the grid has dipped since it's a % of all available.
Oh, I kind of get you now.
'Face value' and all that!
So me and the Boy went to our local Costa yesterday. There was a big queue and I was the only person wearing a mask! :huh:
So me and the Boy went to our local Costa yesterday. There was a big queue and I was the only person wearing a mask! :huh:
Funny. Where I live, people are wearing nothing BUT masks.
Funny. Where I live, people are wearing nothing BUT masks.
Well folk have a lot more sense where you live then!
Pamplemousse
20-08-21, 11:09
Then surely culminative jab rates should have shown further increases not subtractions.
Just a small point LB; ITYM "cumulative", having noticed this in some of your other posts.
Culminative (American English) = serving to indicate the number of independent words or the important points in an utterance by assigning prominence to one syllable in each word or close-knit group of words
Cumulative = increasing or increased in quantity, degree, or force by successive additions.
Just a small point LB; ITYM "cumulative", having noticed this in some of your other posts.
Culminative (American English) = serving to indicate the number of independent words or the important points in an utterance by assigning prominence to one syllable in each word or close-knit group of words
Cumulative = increasing or increased in quantity, degree, or force by successive additions.
I was referring to 'total number'.
BTW, I've found a link this morning to an interesting article about the 'misinformation pandemic' from the autumn of 2018, funnily enough just over a year before this wretched Covid pandemic first started to unfold, and largely turned out to be true.
nature.com/articles/d41586-018-07034-4
Pamplemousse
20-08-21, 11:56
I was referring to 'total number'.
Yes, I knew that, but you were using the wrong word to describe it.
To be honest I don't think we'll have another lockdown. I think they may bring in stricter guidance,, but not another lockdown.
Pamplemousse
20-08-21, 12:20
To be honest I don't think we'll have another lockdown. I think they may bring in stricter guidance,, but not another lockdown.
And if it's just "guidance" it'll be completely ignored.
When did this country become so arrogant, self-centred and above all, STUPID?
As much as I detest this government and its politics, I can agree that the public are also to blame. And yet we like to call the Americans "stupid and ignorant". Sometimes moving doesn't seem like a bad idea...
R number now between 0.9 and 1.2. Whatever that means now that we are living with covid?
Probably not the done thing to say this but I fear an Afghan variant.
Pamplemousse
20-08-21, 14:46
As much as I detest this government and its politics, I can agree that the public are also to blame. And yet we like to call the Americans "stupid and ignorant". Sometimes moving doesn't seem like a bad idea...
Britain has absolutely no right to point and laugh at Americans. Some here voted in a leader every bit as stupid and entitled as Trump, because they were complete cretins and thought that Brexit would make their lives better.
Well, you won, so suck it up and enjoy those empty supermarket shelves - it's only gonna get worse.
Indeed. They voted for a guy who's in it only for the money and popularity and now we have to suffer for it.
Britain has absolutely no right to point and laugh at Americans. Some here voted in a leader every bit as stupid and entitled as Trump, because they were complete cretins and thought that Brexit would make their lives better.
Well, you won, so suck it up and enjoy those empty supermarket shelves - it's only gonna get worse.
Yeah, basically own it and face the music!
Ditto for the current Covidiots in the event of another lockdown!
Pamplemousse
20-08-21, 16:57
Indeed. They voted for a guy who's in it only for the money and popularity and now we have to suffer for it.
Let's remember what Alex Johnson has said.
He described the £250,000 a year he got for writing his columns for the Telegraph as "chicken feed".
He says his salary of £140,000 a year as Prime Minister isn't enough to live on, despite having two grace and favour houses.
He is well known for tapping his friends up for money, claiming he's broke.
He wants to be an ex-PM, abdicated of all responsibility and so he can earn over £100,000 per speech on the after-dinner circuit, like his former Bullingdon chum Shiny Dave does.
The sooner he and Carrie emulate Benito and Clara, the better.
Pamplemousse
20-08-21, 17:24
Getting back on topic...!
I noticed the trends are still firmly upwards; we're now consistently getting 100+ deaths a day, and are edging towards 40,000 new cases a day. Given that Delta seems to have a shorter incubation period, could this have coincided with the return of Premier League football last weekend?
It's been asked why we still have daily figures when we've been told we have to learn to die - sorry, live - with the virus. I think it's two-fold: one, it subtly reminds people that Covid hasn't gone away despite what far too many people may think/hope, and the smaller daily figures sound less scary than:
220,000 people have contracted Covid in the last seven days
5,809 people have been hospitalised in the last seven days
688 people have died in the last seven days.
I still think that had we not had the vaccines we now have, things would have been so much worse; it's foolish to look at the figures we have today and compare them to this time last year because then the Covid we had seems almost benign to what we have now. Unfortunately, we have no ability to make comparisons. However, they are not a magic bullet and people will still get sick and even die even when they've had both their jabs. It has turned the certainty of death amongst the vulnerable into an off-chance now.
There is also news of a new antibody therapy (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58281332) - Ronapreve - now available in the UK. This was one of the experimental treatments given to Trump last year. However, it is expensive at £1000 - £2000 a course.
I still think that if Covid gets out of hand this winter, that people will take care on their own initiative as the sub-humans in power don't want to ruin the economy for their mates in the City. However, seeing that the British now excel in pig-headed wilful ignorance, malice, stupidity and selfishness, I hold out little hope.
And if it's just "guidance" it'll be completely ignored.
When did this country become so arrogant, self-centred and above all, STUPID?
I understand what you're saying but it's not only us Brits (and Americans) who are 'thick, entitled, stupid and ignorant', people in many other countries are too.
Let's face it, France, Germany and various other nations in mainland Europe, plus even parts of Australia have actually witnessed full-on riots over lockdowns, plus antivaxx protests, so we're far from alone in that respect.
After all, many have always seemed to gleefully revel in labelling the UK the 'laughing stock of the world', including many of us Brits ourselves!
Pamplemousse
20-08-21, 17:47
I understand what you're saying but it's not only us Brits (and Americans) who are 'thick, entitled, stupid and ignorant', people in many other countries are too.
The thing is, the English have always done it whilst sneeringly looking down their noses at "foreigners", like they're some sub-human species.
unsure_about_this
20-08-21, 18:33
I hope we don't go into a 4th lockdown (or mini lockdown)
I have been to two football matches in the last few days (Wednesday vs Doncaster and Wednesday vs Fleetwood) both were very interesting experiences, me and my Dad wore our masks in the ground. I was debating whether or not to go the games whilst Covid19 was still happening.
I'm glad you've been back to the football, Phil....You both must have really missed the whole matchday experience.
I hope going to football again will help distract you from your HA.
The only thing that the UK - or indeed any other government - has done well is to scare the population witless since the start of this back in 2020. Now having done so, they are finding it impossible to restore any kind of confidence or rational thinking in the populace at large over a virus that is detrimental to less than 1% of the population.
The mantra is we have to live with it and I agree, but the government, rather than alleviating people's fears and allowing them to do just that, seems determined to keep peddling the fear factor and dangling the lockdown scenario overhead. In doing so they are making a complete mockery of the so-called vaccine efficacy and undermining their own policy.
Does anyone still believe anything that comes out of the mouth of government and their favourite science 'experts'? I certainly don't. They can shove the threat of future lockdowns where the sun does not shine!
elizabethalice
20-08-21, 23:21
I do agree that the constant back and forth of the government is ridiculous (be scared of this virus... now we are going to open everything!) But speaking from personal experience it's a nasty nasty virus that nobody wants to catch.
Of course, the risks are a lot less now we have vaccines and ultimately we do need to learn to live with it but unfortunately I think by opening up too soon, before a lot of people have had a chance to get double vaxxed, the government has put itself at risk of needing to impose restrictions.
But theres nothing any of us can do about that other than keeping ourselves safe, if we end up in another lockdown maybe I'll finally re enroll in virtual Spanish lessons 😂 when life hands you lemons!
Pamplemousse
21-08-21, 00:11
Comparison time.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58281664
Won't happen here in the US, that's for sure!
FMP
MyNameIsTerry
21-08-21, 07:12
Oh, I kind of get you now.
'Face value' and all that!
Looking at the vaccination grid nothing has changed. All they have done is changed 'adult population' with '18+' which I assume will change to '17+' and so on. Therefore those figures shouldn't have decreased. If they change it to '17+' then the % will be affected by the larger number 9f unvaccinated added.
The heat maps haven't changed either. So expect more changes to track younger age groups.
Comparison time.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58281664
A very interesting article, PM, with some silver linings.
There's another interesting related article currently on the BBC website (which was linked to this particular article) about the virtues of Covid vaccines vs natural immunity, plus a combo of each.
Looking at the vaccination grid nothing has changed. All they have done is changed 'adult population' with '18+' which I assume will change to '17+' and so on. Therefore those figures shouldn't have decreased. If they change it to '17+' then the % will be affected by the larger number 9f unvaccinated added.
The heat maps haven't changed either. So expect more changes to track younger age groups.
I'm fully aware that the actual amount of total vaccinations most definitely hasn't decreased, as it's completely physically impossible for that to happen, but I can now understand the dashboard site having to revise the % numbers to make allowances for the eligible age groups, which at face value looks like a significant deduction. A similar analogy would probably be to compare the price of an average TV set in say, 1981 with the price of an average TV set for sale today, in which on paper, the price of the former looks dead cheap by comparison to that of today's equivalent offering, but taking into account the 1981 TV set price in today's money, the cost of the average TV set in 2021 is actually significantly cheaper than 40 years ago, and in spite of the technology from both eras basically being worlds apart.
Just shows how numbers in general can really fool us, and indeed confuse us over time, especially when taken at face value and nothing is always exactly what it seems.
Seriously, has anyone else gained a new found hatred for politics during this pandemic? Before I didn't care about it because it didn't affect me but now, thanks to these clowns and their "handling" of this crisis, I ain't voting whatsoever.
Well folk have a lot more sense where you live then!
If by more sense you mean constantly wearing them, even when its not necessary, then sure. We do have more sense in that regard. lol
Seriously, has anyone else gained a new found hatred for politics during this pandemic? Before I didn't care about it because it didn't affect me but now, thanks to these clowns and their "handling" of this crisis, I ain't voting whatsoever.
I presume you mean it's not only the Tories you won't be voting for but also Labour, Lib Dems, etc?
I also presume you weren't too fussed over other big issues either (e.g, Brexit) pre-2020 if you don't mind me asking?
I presume you mean it's not only the Tories you won't be voting for but also Labour, Lib Dems, etc?
I also presume you weren't too fussed over other big issues either (e.g, Brexit) pre-2020 if you don't mind me asking?
Well ok, I specifically mean the Tories when talking about pure hatred for the government.
Nope, didn't care. Didn't seem like something that was going to happen anyway (at least not for a long while). Mind you, my knowledge on Brexit is pretty low so that alone should tell you how interested I am in politics. lol
Well ok, I specifically mean the Tories when talking about pure hatred for the government.
Nope, didn't care. Didn't seem like something that was going to happen anyway (at least not for a long while). Mind you, my knowledge on Brexit is pretty low so that alone should tell you how interested I am in politics. lol
Although I'm straying further off topic here, simply out of interest and by comparison, how did you feel about the Global Financial Crisis (aka the Credit Crunch) back in the late 2000s and how did it affect you at the time, again if you don't mind me asking?
Although I'm straying further off topic here, simply out of interest and by comparison, how did you feel about the Global Financial Crisis (aka the Credit Crunch) back in the late 2000s and how did it affect you at the time, again if you don't mind me asking?
Considering I was in secondary school at the time, I was hardly aware of it. haha
Considering I was in secondary school at the time, I was hardly aware of it. haha
I bet, despite you personally being unaffected and mostly oblivious to it, your parent(s) were quaking in their boots over it all at the time, especially as the media back then were touting it as the worst major global catastrophe since the Second World War, but is now obviously by far trumped by this Covid pandemic and inadvertently a walk in the park by comparison.
Having said that, the media in general no longer appears to be spewing out the extreme hysterical Armageddon-like commentary on all things Covid like they were for much of last year and still even very early this year!
unsure_about_this
21-08-21, 11:15
I'm glad you've been back to the football, Phil....You both must have really missed the whole matchday experience.
I hope going to football again will help distract you from your HA.
Usually it me and the next door neighbour (but he is not ready to go back yet and neither is his wife) I hope it distracts me from HA . I only go to the home games, my away days will be North Ferriby or Hull are playing at home in their league matches.
A 4th lockdown will not be fun.
Usually it me and the next door neighbour (but he is not ready to go back yet and neither is his wife) I hope it distracts me from HA . I only go to the home games, my away days will be North Ferriby or Hull are playing at home in their league matches.
A 4th lockdown will not be fun.
Well so far there's still no talk of a fourth national lockdown.
As far as I'm concerned, it's not so much the actual lockdowns themselves that worry me, it's the way the public respond to them, especially the selfish 'plebs' of our society who will inevitably respond with extremist aggro!
I've been to Central London today..Absolutely packed and very few masks. Same on the train so very glad we got 1st class tickets and were on our own. Well worth the additional expense!
I know I started this thread back in August, but with more than 300 officially confirmed cases of Omicron now in the UK (though no reported deaths nor increased hospitalisations specific to said variant so far), my dad thinks we should have a fourth national lockdown, at least until further notice as to how Omicron plays out.
I'm not sure whether I agree with him at this stage, but again, what does everyone else on here think?
I really don't think we should lockdown at this point. If it turns out that it makes people very ill and hospital admissions shoot up, then perhaps consider it. To be honest to rush in to another lockdown would mean financial disaster for a lot of people/businesses. I also think that mentally people would struggle if we were to lockdown again, I know I would. The best thing for us to do is follow the advice given, maintain mask wearing and hand washing and be sensible.
We went to another indoor concert last night with 200 or so other people. We both wore our masks although there were maybe only about 1/2 a dozen other people doing so.
I really don't think we should lockdown at this point. If it turns out that it makes people very ill and hospital admissions shoot up, then perhaps consider it. To be honest to rush in to another lockdown would mean financial disaster for a lot of people/businesses. I also think that mentally people would struggle if we were to lockdown again, I know I would. The best thing for us to do is follow the advice given, maintain mask wearing and hand washing and be sensible.
We went to another indoor concert last night with 200 or so other people. We both wore our masks although there were maybe only about 1/2 a dozen other people doing so.
That's exactly my point Catkins.
At this moment in time and with the seemingly more encouraging data we have so far on Omicron, I personally think a full-on fourth national lockdown would be a tad premature.
This time last year lockdown was still far more justified, as the first vaccines were only just starting to be doled out, plus the hospitalisations and deaths situation was of course far more dire back then than it seems to be right now, plus the gap between cases and hospitalisations/deaths is ironically much wider now compared to then, but of course the latter being much lower this December than last so far is most certainly to do with the vaccines.
Despite over 300 officially confirmed cases of Omicron now in the UK, Delta by far still prevails as the foremost Covid variant within our shores, though of course that could very well change in due course, and hopefully even for the better.
All depends on how badly hospitals are affected. There seem to be mixed messages from actual ICUs and the government.
My dad is still adamant that we'll be in lockdown in a week or two's time, as he told me that he heard on the news that Covid in the UK is getting worse and worse every day, and believes there's still every chance that Omicron could turn out to be more problematic, despite anecdotal evidence to the contrary so far, plus he thinks there's a lot of denial, cover-ups and corruption from the govt once again, and he also believes they acted too little too late once again.
He also says he doesn't trust the staff at my day centre as he believes they care more about money than our safety and welfare, which I seriously don't agree, as I am there and he isn't. Also they still get paid, even if I don't attend.
Well I feel like a total loser and like I might just as well give up on everything right now (still far removed from feeling full-on suicidal though).
Lenco, you're not a loser, no way. You're a good bloke, you've always come across that way to me. Chin up buddy.
I think you're trying too hard to "makes sense" of the current situation and the truth is that no one knows anything yet despite assorted "experts" spouting their opinions/ wanting their voices heard.
As for your Day Centre, you definitely know best and it's obviously somewhere where you feel comfortable and respected.
Lenco, you're not a loser, no way. You're a good bloke, you've always come across that way to me. Chin up buddy.
Thanks for your kind remarks Fishman.
Whilst I totally understand that my dad obviously fears the unknown right now, I hate to say that I feel as though it's turning him into a bit of a control freak right now, especially as he seems to be politicising the current situation with Omicron, plus also being unduly mistrustful of the staff at my day centre, and making hasty accusations against them being 'clueless' and having hidden agendas.
I also fear the unknown right now, especially with many media outlets still spewing out hysterical commentary with regards both Omicron and all other things Covid in general right now.
I'm seriously dreading the hysterical Armageddon-like headlines on the front pages of the likes of the Daily Mail, etc, when the first deaths of persons with Omicron finally do occur, even if said deaths aren't directly attributed to Omicron itself, but possibly due to other unrelated (and more harmful) conditions but happening to have Omicron at the same time purely by coincidence.
But as per usual, all they'll care about is all the dosh they make out of it all!
I think you're trying too hard to "makes sense" of the current situation and the truth is that no one knows anything yet despite assorted "experts" spouting their opinions/ wanting their voices heard.
As for your Day Centre, you definitely know best and it's obviously somewhere where you feel comfortable and respected.
Nail on the head Pulisa.
My dad has always been a bit mistrustful of day centres and the 'authorities' in general, no matter how good or bad they may be, plus obviously overprotective towards me on occasions, which is totally understandable.
But at the same time, I do feel the need to stand on my own two feet and have a bit of personal independence away from the cocoon that is my family sometimes.
Honestly, if there really were serious malpractices at my day centre, in particular major Covid-related breaches, they simply wouldn't survive, especially in the face of an epic media circus, even if only confined to the local press!
Also as this country has been ravaged by Delta since the late spring of this year, surely I would have been infected with that by now, especially had I stopped wearing masks in indoor public places since July, and not been careful generally, but I thank my lucky stars I've been OK up until now.
Pamplemousse
08-12-21, 10:53
Not a lockdown, but I'm hearing rumours that "Plan B" may be implemented.
Not a lockdown, but I'm hearing rumours that "Plan B" may be implemented.
I agree in many ways that Plan B should have already happened all along, even before Omicron became a thing.
Boris is really getting a verbal pasting in the Commons right now, not only from MPs of the opposition parties but even from many of his own fellow Tory MPs!
I can't see that man lasting beyond 2022 in Number 10!
Not a lockdown, but I'm hearing rumours that "Plan B" may be implemented.
I agree in many ways that the govt should have gone straight for Plan B back in October, even before Omicron became a thing.
Whilst on the subject of politics, Boris is really getting a verbal pasting in the Commons right now, not only from MPs of the opposition parties but also from many of his fellow Tory MPs!
The way things seem to be heading ATM, I can't see him lasting beyond 2022 in Number 10.
Even the premierships of both his predecessors May and Cameron, despite their own respective scandals and misdeeds, were a walk in the park by comparison!
I agree in many ways that the govt should have gone straight for Plan B back in October, even before Omicron became a thing.
Whilst on the subject of politics, Boris is really getting a verbal pasting in the Commons right now, not only from MPs of the opposition parties but also from many of his fellow Tory MPs!
The way things seem to be heading ATM, I can't see him lasting beyond 2022 in Number 10.
Even the premierships of both his predecessors May and Cameron, despite their own respective scandals and misdeeds, were a walk in the park by comparison!
Oops, kind of double posted!
That was certainly cringeworthy in the Commons...Boris continues to hide behind the vaccine rollout and fudge his way through an interrogation session this lunchtime.
What a mess..and I'm sure there are more revelations to come. Let's hope Carrie soon produces the new baby to take the pressure off Boris.
PM, what next for Boris? Back to hosting Have I Got News For You?
Pamplemousse
08-12-21, 14:15
Reports in numerous media outlets now that an announcement could well be made today, with some parts being mandated from midnight tonight.
The cynic in me thinks this is trying to distract from the attention to the Christmas parties last year - already Johnson is trying to deflect with "that was last year so it's irrelevant".
I am beginning to think that knives are being sharpened around the 1922 committee for Johnson: so far the only likely future leaders are likely to be Liz Truss or Sajid Javid as they're relatively untouched by matters Covid.
Pamplemousse
08-12-21, 14:18
PM, what next for Boris? Back to hosting Have I Got News For You?
Most likely the after-dinner circuit or writing his Telegraph column for "chicken feed" - that's £250,000 a year to you and me.
I think he should resign immediately. It's appalling. Who would take over? Anyone with integrity if such a thing still exists in politics.
I think he should resign immediately. It's appalling. Who would take over? Anyone with integrity if such a thing still exists in politics.
Next they will no doubt be desperate to find faults with Keir Starmer (real or imagined) and people have already accused him of siding with odious barstewards like Jimmy Savile in the past, in which there's no concrete evidence of, and whatever other myths and conspiracy theories both the media and the Great British Public can conjure up.
Trouble is, pretty much all politicians the world over now get tarred with the same brush!
Well Plan B has officially been announced tonight, but it's nowhere near a full national lockdown though, as I personally can still generally be doing after tomorrow what I could still be doing today, albeit with greater mask restrictions, of which I never strayed from before anyway.
Pamplemousse
08-12-21, 20:42
"Plan B" was never about lockdowns though LB, just a few more measures to try and limit the spread.
I think he should resign immediately. It's appalling. Who would take over? Anyone with integrity if such a thing still exists in politics.
I agree.
Professor lockdown wants another lockdown too I read
"Plan B" was never about lockdowns though LB, just a few more measures to try and limit the spread.
I agree PM.
Plan B seems fair, proportionate and a wise move ATM.
Is "proportionate" a new buzzword now?
Is "proportionate" a new buzzword now?
Not sure about that, as it's been used ever since I can remember.
Although I don't mean to be a doom merchant, some advisors are saying that the latest Plan B restrictions aren't good enough and they fear that hospitalisations are predicted to go through the roof over the coming weeks, despite only mild symptoms and zero Omicron-specific deaths reported so far.
Just go the whole hog and do a lockdown then for once and for all!
elizabethalice
10-12-21, 08:23
Honestly, if these measures aren't going to be enough, I'd rather they close big events now. I just want to be able to see my family at Christmas really, and would happily forfeit a few concerts and even xmas dinner out with my friends to do that!
elizabethalice
10-12-21, 08:26
The pass is also quite laughable. People can take an LFT test instead of being vaccinated. Which is fine, but to report LFT results you literally type in whether it's a negative or positive test. You have to scan the bar code of the test, but don't have to prove you've taken it. So many people will abuse that and just not take it.
Plus, you don't even have to take a test for weddings. I find that baffling - I can understand not having a requirement to be vaccinated for weddings, but unless someone has a medical exemption why they can't get vaxxed OR tested (which I'm sure they will have an exemption for) surely people can take 15 minutes out of their day to do an LFT test before a wedding?!
Why haven't we been nuked yet?
Because nuking isn't really something that's done these days. Hey, Frank. Remember, the news isn't your personal friend.
Why haven't we been nuked yet?
Whilst I understand it's one of your biggest fears in general, I can't see what relevance nuclear warfare has with this current Covid situation.
What's nuclear warfare got to do with this right now?
You know in those zombie movies how they drop a bomb in order to systematically cleanse a biohazard area?
You know in those zombie movies how they drop a bomb in order to systematically cleanse a biohazard area?
But movies are mostly fictitious and don't normally reflect true reality.
Also, in case you weren't sure, zombies aren't actually real.
Also, in case you weren't sure, zombies aren't actually real.
Exactly my point BI.
Pamplemousse
10-12-21, 17:01
The pass is also quite laughable. People can take an LFT test instead of being vaccinated. Which is fine, but to report LFT results you literally type in whether it's a negative or positive test. You have to scan the bar code of the test, but don't have to prove you've taken it. So many people will abuse that and just not take it.
If you *did* have to prove it, as far as I can tell all you need to do is open the test, drop two drops of the buffer solution on it and wait 30 minutes.
Line appears against the C, nothing against the T. Job's a good'un.
(says he, who has been testing daily this week to the accompaniment of gagging and sneezing)
Yes it's very easy to abuse the LFT "results" system.
The general consensus so far seems to be that the third booster jabs are key to helping keep Omicron at bay, and some of today's papers (displayed via the BBC website) even suggest that that could prevent another lockdown.
The data on booster jab admins on the dashboard site is looking encouraging and starting to gather pace once again after levelling off a bit last week.
My dad is now pleading with me to stay away from my day centre until at least after Christmas, and I shall finally concede in order to help put his mind at rest.
Having said that I did the very same last December and January at the height of the scares over Alpha and the sky didn't cave in.
I think you've done the right thing by him and I'm sure he's very relieved.
I think you've done the right thing by him and I'm sure he's very relieved.
Yes, especially because I love him and care about him.
I seriously do hope this Omicron variant doesn't eventually turn out to be more lethal, which of course still understandably remains the fears of many, despite anecdotal evidence so far suggesting the opposite, plus taken at face value, it does at times seem like we're heading back to square one again, whatever the actual event.
It would be nice to start having a bit of info about the average length of time of both Omicron infections (worldwide so far) and associated hospitalisations (in SA) over the fortnightly period since 29th Nov and 13th Dec, if possible.
As far as my day centre is concerned, I was already kind of treating each day that I attended as if it were my last, even though that's not actually the case. I'm sure you get the gist of what I mean.
Does all this "information" actually help though? So many eminent scientists coming out of the woodwork, so many opinions....but are we any better off for copious data which is never going to be definitive? Can anything ever be "definitive" as regards Covid no matter how hard we try to make sense of it?
Does all this "information" actually help though? So many eminent scientists coming out of the woodwork, so many opinions....but are we any better off for copious data which is never going to be definitive? Can anything ever be "definitive" as regards Covid no matter how hard we try to make sense of it?
I gave up on that a long time ago. I did what I could to mitigate (vaxxed and masked when needed) and use common sense hygiene and will continue to do so until we're out of the woods. No sense in continuing to feed the beast so to speak.
FMP
Does all this "information" actually help though? So many eminent scientists coming out of the woodwork, so many opinions....but are we any better off for copious data which is never going to be definitive? Can anything ever be "definitive" as regards Covid no matter how hard we try to make sense of it?
You're right, it does seem like there's a fair amount of info 'warfare' going on right now, from scientists, politicians, media, 'know-it-all' members of the general public, you name them.
Plus my dad also believes that a lot of the hysterical headlines concerning Omicron are partly the govt trying to cover their backsides and needing to be seen to be doing something, not only due to their often-perceived cack-handedness during previous waves and variant outbreaks, but also over other recent and ongoing 'scandals' such as the Downing Street party debacle.
He also said that we still need to deal with Delta in the meantime, which still remains the foremost variant right now and IS lethal, especially amongst the unvaccinated and even under-vaccinated.
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