View Full Version : Feeling a bit guilty right now
I'm feeling a bit guilty right now over my general views and opinions concerning the Russia-Ukraine tensions, despite still not having discussed them in any great detail with anyone.
It kind of stems from 2008 when the Global Financial Crisis was deepening every day, but I initially wondered if some people were overreacting to said threat and if the media were in part, instrumental in whipping up hysteria over said crisis, thus becoming a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy at the time, and I remember being lambasted for suggesting such things by both family members and others close to me and accused of being insensitive and naïve about the whole situation, plus lectured about the fact that everyone had every right to be worried and grieve over the then-current situation, of which, with the benefit of hindsight, I don't dispute, and now wonder was I insensitive and uncaring after all?
About 2 years ago during the onset of the Covid pandemic, I was also wondering the very same thing about the likelihood of it largely being blown out of proportion by the media, but once again, like the GFC some 12 years earlier, Covid turned out to be a real and profound crisis, which still remains in existence right now, as you all know full well.
I just can't help feel that I might be underestimating the potential implications of the Russia-Ukraine situation right now, especially as many of our politicians currently don't believe that the Russian troops are moving from the borders back to base, and something more sinister might be at play that I may have previously been more naïve about, plus of course, the ever-present humiliation of people saying 'I told you so' if the worst-case scenarios do come to pass (heaven forbid).
The way some of our politicians and media have been talking over these past few days, it's as if there might be some kind of threat to the UK from all of this, though nothing has actually been suggested about that so far.
It just all seems very vague right now.
P.S. I know there's already a dedicated thread discussing the Ukraine situation on here, but this also covers some of my other personal concerns about my possibly unreasonable responses to certain previous crises.
I reckon people in the UK are more concerned about the effects of Storms Douglas and Eunice?
One thing's for sure, Lenco and that is that the true state of affairs and the intelligence received won't be made public knowledge and "experts" and many politicians will be guessing because their security clearance isn't high enough.
I reckon people in the UK are more concerned about the effects of Storms Douglas and Eunice?
One thing's for sure, Lenco and that is that the true state of affairs and the intelligence received won't be made public knowledge and "experts" and many politicians will be guessing because their security clearance isn't high enough.
The weather does seem to be having a bit of windypops right now, especially here in the Midlands.
Still on the subject of others doubting what I say about certain hot topics in the news, I remember some 18 months before the first recorded Covid cases (around mid-late 2018) saying to a member of staff at my day centre (who left about a year ago) about that great Brexit-fuelled recession that many media outlets were predicting during the latter half of 2016 following the referendum in the June of that year that never seemed to materialise and was probably all hyped up at the time and said staff member responded with 'We ain't seen nothing yet, this is still only the calm before the storm!', and I felt defeated once again.
Strangely, that very same staff member admitted that they didn't even bother to vote in that referendum at all, nor did they bother to vote in the most recent GE in December 2019. In fact, she said that she had basically given up on politics period since 2005 and hadn't even set foot in a polling station ever since, but still had the nerve to be such a prophet of doom without pursuing any real solutions.
Of course the Covid pandemic came along from early 2020 onwards and did incidentally (and inadvertently) cause a worldwide recession in its own right, which was inevitable and totally unavoidable.
MyNameIsTerry
17-02-22, 07:26
The weather does seem to be having a bit of windypops right now, especially here in the Midlands.
Still on the subject of others doubting what I say about certain hot topics in the news, I remember some 18 months before the first recorded Covid cases (around mid-late 2018) saying to a member of staff at my day centre (who left about a year ago) about that great Brexit-fuelled recession that many media outlets were predicting during the latter half of 2016 following the referendum in the June of that year that never seemed to materialise and was probably all hyped up at the time and said staff member responded with 'We ain't seen nothing yet, this is still only the calm before the storm!', and I felt defeated once again.
Strangely, that very same staff member admitted that they didn't even bother to vote in that referendum at all, nor did they bother to vote in the most recent GE in December 2019. In fact, she said that she had basically given up on politics period since 2005 and hadn't even set foot in a polling station ever since, but still had the nerve to be such a prophet of doom without pursuing any real solutions.
Of course the Covid pandemic came along from early 2020 onwards and did incidentally (and inadvertently) cause a worldwide recession in its own right, which was inevitable and totally unavoidable.
Brexit was a classic example of why we should beware the media. They all had a financial or political stake in one side or both. So it comes down to trust. You don't know them therefore it's naive to trust them. Every outlet was talking out of their backsides and they still are. If they weren't making it up they were biasing articles by only asking the opinion of the side they approved of. They would omit inconvenient facts or upcoming legislation.
A good example of media scaremongering was finance. Just after the vote all we heard about was the collapse of London and banks shipping out. That disappeared overnight in favour of customs charges. That disappeared overnight in favour of NI. Finance was only talked about in financial circles until it came back to the front pages because it was time to finalise the passporting issue. Finance is our biggest industry so why did it disappear for years? Customs charges and NI kept returning to the front pages.
Isn't that proof enough that the media jump on what's current, flog it for all the pounds they can then move on?
If you look at the Express they've been running articles about us pulling the plug on the NIP being imminent for ages now. It's the boy that cried wolf x100. And whilst such outlets make their money through sensationalism we have the opposite side in the doom mongering of the Indy and Guardian. They might be better written and contain more information but they are only playing to their own audience. You can't expect truth in any of that and the journalists who work for them must laugh about it.
Brexit was far more complex than anyone knew. We all learnt a lot more afterwards. But anyone telling you it's either all bad or all good has an agenda.
I think you are being far to hard on yourself about the Ukraine issue. You have a right to an opinion regardless of whether it's even right or wrong. No one can be sure because, as pulisa points out, we don't have the real facts. We are fed snippets by politicians and media with an agenda. But if you take out war itself what does any of this change for you? Other than the stock market fluctuating how will your life be any different? Unless you are involved in some way the answer is it just won't.
We'll all still be taking out the bins as you often say, Terry (well maybe not you at the moment in your current fragile state!:))
We'll all be back to covid restrictions being lifted and Partygate next week anyway. The Ukrainians are going about their daily routines and are no doubt used to all this.
Brexit was a classic example of why we should beware the media. They all had a financial or political stake in one side or both. So it comes down to trust. You don't know them therefore it's naive to trust them. Every outlet was talking out of their backsides and they still are. If they weren't making it up they were biasing articles by only asking the opinion of the side they approved of. They would omit inconvenient facts or upcoming legislation.
A good example of media scaremongering was finance. Just after the vote all we heard about was the collapse of London and banks shipping out. That disappeared overnight in favour of customs charges. That disappeared overnight in favour of NI. Finance was only talked about in financial circles until it came back to the front pages because it was time to finalise the passporting issue. Finance is our biggest industry so why did it disappear for years? Customs charges and NI kept returning to the front pages.
Isn't that proof enough that the media jump on what's current, flog it for all the pounds they can then move on?
If you look at the Express they've been running articles about us pulling the plug on the NIP being imminent for ages now. It's the boy that cried wolf x100. And whilst such outlets make their money through sensationalism we have the opposite side in the doom mongering of the Indy and Guardian. They might be better written and contain more information but they are only playing to their own audience. You can't expect truth in any of that and the journalists who work for them must laugh about it.
Brexit was far more complex than anyone knew. We all learnt a lot more afterwards. But anyone telling you it's either all bad or all good has an agenda.
Exactly.
With regards Brexit (for or against), its referendum was IMO, one of those arbitrary vote-grabbing pledges by Cameron ahead of the 2015 GE, despite him (allegedly) being more in the Remain camp, plus it's speculated that he felt under threat from Farage and Co (UKIP) at the time, who were at their highest point in the opinion polls back then, which also demonstrates how whimsical and fickle politics can be, even at the best of times.
A lot of us in this country have a tendency to be sheep at times, following the latest 'fad' on a whim, if only to 'fit in' and keep up with the Joneses, and not because it's of any real tangible benefit to them personally, or to this country/society at large. I don't necessarily mean voting for the likes of Brexit in particular, but doing plenty of other whimsical things, like partaking in the Freedom Convoy thing, which so far hasn't really gained a major foothold in this country, but has already intensified in France, and other countries around the world outside of Canada, where the movement originated in January.
Going back to that former staff member at my day centre who was gloomy about the prospects for the UK economy post-Brexit, I personally feel as though she was largely part of the problem herself for refusing to vote at all since 2005, saying that virtually all politicians of all parties are as corrupt as hell and more concerned about looking after number one, than actually making a positive difference to the communities they represent. She said the Global Financial Crisis was basically the final straw for her in that respect.
She was also vaccine hesitant.
We'll all still be taking out the bins as you often say, Terry (well maybe not you at the moment in your current fragile state!:))
We'll all be back to covid restrictions being lifted and Partygate next week anyway. The Ukrainians are going about their daily routines and are no doubt used to all this.
The Ukrainians also expressed their bravery and resilience yesterday with a national 'show of unity'.
Plus AFAIK there were no reports of Russian troops wading in all guns blazing yesterday either, which was reputed to be the start date of invasion/attack by Russia amongst Western politicians and media.
After all, Ukraine have already been in conflict since about late 2013 onwards, so like you said, they're probably already used to a lot of this.
I also agree wholeheartedly, as far as the UK govt are concerned, that this is largely a detraction from the likes of Partygate, Covid, etc.
I think you are being far to hard on yourself about the Ukraine issue. You have a right to an opinion regardless of whether it's even right or wrong. No one can be sure because, as pulisa points out, we don't have the real facts. We are fed snippets by politicians and media with an agenda. But if you take out war itself what does any of this change for you? Other than the stock market fluctuating how will your life be any different? Unless you are involved in some way the answer is it just won't.
Someone on another forum the other day brought up the 90s Bosnia conflict, and pointed out how both Bosnia and Serbia are actually in closer proximity to the UK than Ukraine and Russia and nothing out of the ordinary happened to any of us in this country in connection with said conflict.
Of course all of that predated 24/7 rolling news channels and social media.
That poster on said forum also reckons many people's longstanding prejudices against Russians in general going back several decades, and even centuries, obviously isn't helping the current situation. They also went on to saying that we would probably be expressing the same sentiment towards Germany and Germans if they were heavily involved in a situation like this, again due to historical associations.
MyNameIsTerry
17-02-22, 12:24
We'll all still be taking out the bins as you often say, Terry (well maybe not you at the moment in your current fragile state!:))
We'll all be back to covid restrictions being lifted and Partygate next week anyway. The Ukrainians are going about their daily routines and are no doubt used to all this.
Yep, and any tinkering with those bin schedules will evoke a much bigger public response than Ukraine! :biggrin:
I managed to bring an empty one back today :yesyes:
MyNameIsTerry
17-02-22, 12:39
Someone on another forum the other day brought up the 90s Bosnia conflict, and pointed out how both Bosnia and Serbia are actually in closer proximity to the UK than Ukraine and Russia and nothing out of the ordinary happened to any of us in this country in connection with said conflict.
Of course all of that predated 24/7 rolling news channels and social media.
That poster on said forum also reckons many people's longstanding prejudices against Russians in general going back several decades, and even centuries, obviously isn't helping the current situation. They also went on to saying that we would probably be expressing the same sentiment towards Germany and Germans if they were heavily involved in a situation like this, again due to historical associations.
Yugoslavia was a war somewhere else. It would never reach us. Long standing grievances existed and still will. The Serbs committed atrocities in this one but in WWII it was the Croatian fascists rounding up Serbs. An area of WWII largely whitewashed.
I'm afraid I don't agree with this long standing prejudice against Russia thing. It's an argument seen more on the left of politics tied up in anti US sentiment. Of course our side will make them out to be a bogeyman, just as they will be telling their own people we are, but neither side is innocent. It's an age old dance of power and will always go on. As long as failings of both sides are acknowledged. If not it's just another "poor Putin" thing.
Some people may feel that way but if you asked the public to list who they have issues with I suspect Russia are far down the list. When do Russians cause us any problems in our daily life? Are they changing areas of the UK?
You'll always get people taking pot shots at each other. How many moaned about Germany regarding the EU? Some will bring the war into it. The same happens when we have tension with France. I guess its just human nature.
MyNameIsTerry
17-02-22, 12:52
Exactly.
With regards Brexit (for or against), its referendum was IMO, one of those arbitrary vote-grabbing pledges by Cameron ahead of the 2015 GE, despite him (allegedly) being more in the Remain camp, plus it's speculated that he felt under threat from Farage and Co (UKIP) at the time, who were at their highest point in the opinion polls back then, which also demonstrates how whimsical and fickle politics can be, even at the best of times.
A lot of us in this country have a tendency to be sheep at times, following the latest 'fad' on a whim, if only to 'fit in' and keep up with the Joneses, and not because it's of any real tangible benefit to them personally, or to this country/society at large. I don't necessarily mean voting for the likes of Brexit in particular, but doing plenty of other whimsical things, like partaking in the Freedom Convoy thing, which so far hasn't really gained a major foothold in this country, but has already intensified in France, and other countries around the world outside of Canada, where the movement originated in January.
Going back to that former staff member at my day centre who was gloomy about the prospects for the UK economy post-Brexit, I personally feel as though she was largely part of the problem herself for refusing to vote at all since 2005, saying that virtually all politicians of all parties are as corrupt as hell and more concerned about looking after number one, than actually making a positive difference to the communities they represent. She said the Global Financial Crisis was basically the final straw for her in that respect.
She was also vaccine hesitant.
I don't disagree with her on politicians. Maybe some do it for us but it's such a gravy train. I still vote but I'm not a believer and support no party. I vote based on the least worst principle. I will never join a party or go to an event. Not voting is still making a decision but you can't then moan what others have decided for you as you pointed out.
But this more about human failings than the job. It attracts certain types like many jobs do. How many big bosses really care about community? I remember seeing that new buzzword "corporate responsibility" appearing everywhere. It only came when it was pushed onto them just as health & safety has to mostly be pushed otherwise how many bosses would still be set at Victorian standards? This makes many workers become disenfranchised and negative in general. Maybe some bosses care but my thinking is the majority only change when they have to, its trendy, forced on them or makes them look good (e.g. look at us, we employ 50 disabled people).
So for me I just think they are at it again. It doesn't surprise me because I set the bar low. But it doesn't mean you have to drop out completely. Some people are more committed to things like politics so have passion. They are more likely to be loud about injustice.
I don't disagree with her on politicians. Maybe some do it for us but it's such a gravy train. I still vote but I'm not a believer and support no party. I vote based on the least worst principle. I will never join a party or go to an event. Not voting is still making a decision but you can't then moan what others have decided for you as you pointed out.
But this more about human failings than the job. It attracts certain types like many jobs do. How many big bosses really care about community? I remember seeing that new buzzword "corporate responsibility" appearing everywhere. It only came when it was pushed onto them just as health & safety has to mostly be pushed otherwise how many bosses would still be set at Victorian standards? This makes many workers become disenfranchised and negative in general. Maybe some bosses care but my thinking is the majority only change when they have to, its trendy, forced on them or makes them look good (e.g. look at us, we employ 50 disabled people).
So for me I just think they are at it again. It doesn't surprise me because I set the bar low. But it doesn't mean you have to drop out completely. Some people are more committed to things like politics so have passion. They are more likely to be loud about injustice.
One of my biggest concerns of late is that there's still far too many people who are unwilling to change and keep repeating the same mistakes time and time again, plus also revel in playing the blame game.
One subject in particular that I've already covered umpteen times before in other threads on here is zero tolerance, and my belief that in many instances, it often serves as a lazy 'sticking plaster' solution that treats the symptoms rather than addressing the underlying causes/issues, and can ironically cause even more problems than it's intended to solve.
Even my day centre manager agrees with me on this, and she said she hated having to go through all the ZT protocols back in the 2000s when the day centre was owned and run by Staffs CC, and believed ZT was a largely overengineered and ill-thought out solution to issues that seldom ever existed there at least, but actually created more hostile and polarised vibes between the staff and clients there. Similar tensions have also been observed in schools over the past 20-odd years or so between teachers and pupils.
Those vibes of hostility and animosity between staff and clients for very similar reasons were also evident at my previous day centre that I left exactly 5 years ago this month.
MyNameIsTerry
17-02-22, 15:59
One of my biggest concerns of late is that there's still far too many people who are unwilling to change and keep repeating the same mistakes time and time again, plus also revel in playing the blame game.
One subject in particular that I've already covered umpteen times before in other threads on here is zero tolerance, and my belief that in many instances, it often serves as a lazy 'sticking plaster' solution that treats the symptoms rather than addressing the underlying causes/issues, and can ironically cause even more problems than it's intended to solve.
Even my day centre manager agrees with me on this, and she said she hated having to go through all the ZT protocols back in the 2000s when the day centre was owned and run by Staffs CC, and believed ZT was a largely overengineered and ill-thought out solution to issues that seldom ever existed there at least, but actually created more hostile and polarised vibes between the staff and clients there. Similar tensions have also been observed in schools over the past 20-odd years or so between teachers and pupils.
Those vibes of hostility and animosity between staff and clients for very similar reasons were also evident at my previous day centre that I left exactly 5 years ago this month.
I think there is a need for zero tolerance in society but with mental health it's a very complex concept that must be based on individuals.
If some thug is beating a woman in the street I don't care too much if it's a bit rough to detain him, within police standards of course, and a nice stint in prison. If there are things that can be addressed to change the guy then let's try it but still be mindful the victim deserves justice. All to often the victim is forgotten in the name of reform. Reform to the powers that be is probably more about numbers and money than people.
But not everyone can or even wants to be reformed so we need to treat them differently. The guy that's committed 50 burglaries is unlikely to ever change.
Mental health has been about learning and it has a long way to go. I think more peaceful, compassionate methods should be the standard. Just because you are a certain way doesn't make you a criminal or nuisance.
I think there is a need for zero tolerance in society but with mental health it's a very complex concept that must be based on individuals.
If some thug is beating a woman in the street I don't care too much if it's a bit rough to detain him, within police standards of course, and a nice stint in prison. If there are things that can be addressed to change the guy then let's try it but still be mindful the victim deserves justice. All to often the victim is forgotten in the name of reform. Reform to the powers that be is probably more about numbers and money than people.
But not everyone can or even wants to be reformed so we need to treat them differently. The guy that's committed 50 burglaries is unlikely to ever change.
Mental health has been about learning and it has a long way to go. I think more peaceful, compassionate methods should be the standard. Just because you are a certain way doesn't make you a criminal or nuisance.
I do absolutely agree with you that we need some kind of ZT against the genuine criminal elements of our society, but unfortunately ZT has over the past 20-odd years or so been lazily misused in otherwise unwarranted fashions by power-mad persons (often poorly trained) who were meant to be caring for people with MH issues, some of whom haven't always been able to express themselves properly without seeming aggressive on the face of it.
There's always been a bit of a culture within certain sectors of Staffs CC in particular of 'restrain first, ask/answer questions later' policies.
Ditto for some of the same sectors of Birmingham City Council whose education dept owned and run the residential school I attended back in 1986-88, though the school itself wasn't/isn't actually in B'ham.
I find the Doomsday predictions for named dates a bit jarring right now
As far as current events are concerned, the Russian troops were predicted to start pouring into Ukraine on Wednesday (16th Feb), but AFAIK there's still no reports of them having done such a thing as yet.
I also never forget the much hyped-up predictions of the world ending on 21st December 2012, which certainly never materialised, as we're still all here right now almost 10 years later, plus I never even believed in it at the time.
Also that seemed to be around the time our current obsession with Doomsday scenarios and conspiracy theories in general first started to gather pace, which of course coincided with social media coming of age at the same time.
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