View Full Version : Triggered by injustice
Yesterday evening, my dad was watching Sky News whilst waiting for the snooker final to start, and there was a scene where plods were beating anti-war protesters to kingdom come (in St Petersburg, I think), and it retriggered my fantasies about me taunting and provoking police officers in this country to see if they might give me a good hiding or even arrest me.
Anti-Poll Tax protesters in central London back were brutalised by plod back in the spring of 1990, and so were some inner-city rioters on various occasions throughout the 80s.
Am I out of order to be seeking a confrontation with plod once again, and do I seriously risk copping a conviction and/or being on the receiving end of a pasting?
No one ever seems willing to tell me or warn me of consequences anymore.
Even the staff at my day centre have declined to answer my questions on what the likely sanctions are for serious misbehaviour from us clients are, especially if involving aggression.
In fact, they hardly ever even talk about zero tolerance anymore, despite it being all the rage in most of such places back in the 2000s.
These impulses are just thoughts; there's no need for you to act on them and I suspect you know this.
I feel the same with suicidal ideation, I have an inner voice that tells me to harm or kill myself all the time. It's uncomfortable and sometimes troubling, but in the end I know it's just an intrusive thought that can't harm me or cause me to harm myself.
Yes, if you verbally abused a police officer you'd probably get into trouble of some sort, but there's no reason for you to do this.
Yes, if you verbally abused a police officer you'd probably get into trouble of some sort, but there's no reason for you to do this.
What if I was to verbally abuse staff members at my day centre tomorrow as part of some impulsive whim?
Would they be straight on the blower to plod? Would they physically restrain me? Would they give me a loud reprimand? Would they ban me for life? Don't they bother with zero tolerance against unruly clients anymore?
1) That seems unlikely,
2) No, absolutely not
3) Seems highly unlikely if you're not about to cause physical injury to yourself or others
4) Possibly - traumatic, but not harmful
5) I'm sure they've dealt with worse than a bit of kicking off
6) Again, I'm pretty sure that doesn't apply to a bit of shouting and swearing
I'm really sorry you're feeling bad right now.
1) That seems unlikely,
2) No, absolutely not
3) Seems highly unlikely if you're not about to cause physical injury to yourself or others
4) Possibly - traumatic, but not harmful
5) I'm sure they've dealt with worse than a bit of kicking off
6) Again, I'm pretty sure that doesn't apply to a bit of shouting and swearing
I'm really sorry you're feeling bad right now.
Even though I've often disagreed with it in some respects, I wonder why a lot of those places no longer bother with ZT anymore, given it was all the rage back in the 2000s and the early 2010s, as there used to be warning posters on notice boards scattered around such places, which we rarely seem to see anymore.
This was mostly in the old-skool state-run premises (a la Staffs CC).
Campaign posters for local Pubwatch schemes displayed in many licensed premises, which were also ubiquitous back in the 2000s, we also don't seem to see as much these days, at least not in my area.
I think that that sort of approach could be considered to be lacking in compassion when dealing with troubled individuals - maybe something more nuanced is required?
I think that that sort of approach could be considered to be lacking in compassion when dealing with troubled individuals - maybe something more nuanced is required?
You're probably right, as I think those policies sometimes actually did more damage than they were originally intended to solve, especially as they seemed to be more for the benefit of the staff (in particular the more power-mad staff members in such places) plus they tended to treat the symptoms and not address the underlying causes.
Absolutely, yes. Much better for staff to be answerable and take responsibility.
MyNameIsTerry
07-03-22, 13:46
Perhaps because science has moved on and they now understand it's not simply 'acting up'? It's a genuine issue that needs a diffusing technique and not an escalation one. Zero tolerance may do more damage to the troubled individual.
Seperage a genuine mental health isdue from some skin head in a pub with a pool queue. The latter will get warned then physically restrained. Calming down a distressed person requires a totally different technique.
Why do you think you should provoke someone? Do you believe you should be punished?
I bet if you asked anyone on here they would say you were anything other than aggressive. You apologise when you don't even need to. You're a respectful guy. Why would you act in a criminal manner towards the police when you are so nice on here? It's just not you, Lenco. I'm yet to come across anyone who does cause the police problems who have your positive traits. Those types don't care.
I think that the fact these thoughts ( and that’s all they are) cause you anxiety means that you are very unlikely to act them out.
it’s like Blue touched on the suicide thing. If you are terrified of the thought of it and it causes you anxiety, I think you are unlikely to carry such a thing out.
I think it's more the sense of guilt that I tend to feel whenever I see helpless individuals at the mercy of state-sanctioned brutality simply for trying to 'stand their ground' and voice their disapproval against regimes of blatant injustice.
Whilst I know that most of us in this country still have it relatively easy by comparison for the most part, and not living in a brutal and extremely punitive police state (unlike Russia and various other countries/nations, also including parts of the Americas and parts of SA, and of course, not forgetting many parts of the Middle East), it really beggars belief that such inhumane practices and regimes still remain commonplace in certain parts of the world now in the 21st Century, as if many of those places still remain stuck in the Dark Ages.
I just feel so guilty and perceived as ungrateful right now. That's why I'm wondering what it might be like if I tryed to 'push my luck' with authority figures here in this country, but of course in a non-physically violent way?
Perhaps because science has moved on and they now understand it's not simply 'acting up'? It's a genuine issue that needs a diffusing technique and not an escalation one. Zero tolerance may do more damage to the troubled individual.
Seperage a genuine mental health isdue from some skin head in a pub with a pool queue. The latter will get warned then physically restrained. Calming down a distressed person requires a totally different technique.
Why do you think you should provoke someone? Do you believe you should be punished?
I bet if you asked anyone on here they would say you were anything other than aggressive. You apologise when you don't even need to. You're a respectful guy. Why would you act in a criminal manner towards the police when you are so nice on here? It's just not you, Lenco. I'm yet to come across anyone who does cause the police problems who have your positive traits. Those types don't care.
I remember about 20 years or so ago reading a magazine distributed to persons who worked in the Health and Social Care profession (I think the name of said publication was 'Community Care', but not entirely sure) that was left lying around on the table at my previous day centre, and there was an article in it whose headline read something like 'Shock report gives daycare staff powers to punch', in reference to an alleged 'epidemic' of such staff being on the receiving end of violence and aggression from abusive and unruly clients, and I remember my immediate thoughts at the time were not only that I felt that us clients were all being tarred with the same brush, but also that the way certain staff members in such places (especially the more power-mad ones) treated us clients on occasions, especially when they communicated with us in a bossy and impatient/aggressive manner themselves, which in turn could often trigger us and inadvertently cause us to have meltdowns, even though they were hardly ever physically violent.
You don't need to live in the past. Nobody's abusing you now and you can write your own story.
You don't need to live in the past. Nobody's abusing you now and you can write your own story.
I wasn't actually abused myself by staff at my previous day centre, BI.
I just can't help wondering if the panics and 'hysteria' that led to ZT policies in places like that at that time were truly justified, or was it just some misguided, ill-thought-out, overzealous solution to an issue that probably wasn't actually that serious in the first place, but seemingly jumping on the bandwagon in response to the much-publicised V&A-related issues facing the NHS, whose such issues still sadly remain unresolved today?
Lenco, as others have already suggested, you're about the last person I could imagine being abusive to someone. You just don't have it in you, you'd be acting.
Thanks everyone for your replies.
I shall probably feel very different by tomorrow morning when I arrive at my day centre.
I remember feeling very similar emotions this time last year following the Sarah Everard tragedy and what an odious monster her killer (plod) Wayne Couzens was/is, and also remember having sadist thoughts about damaging that evil barsteward of a tyrant!
What would having a meltdown mean to you, Lenco? What are you terrified of doing? Losing control and lashing out and then being punished for it?
What would having a meltdown mean to you, Lenco? What are you terrified of doing? Losing control and lashing out and then being punished for it?
I just had this recurring urge earlier today to challenge authority, which has fortunately lessened as this afternoon wore on.
Despite the progress we've made in this country over the past 30-odd years or so in understanding and successfully managing persons with ASD, there still sadly remains certain people who are very set in their ways and stuck in the Dark Ages, and refuse to tolerate any crap from us.
I still think behavioural managements of people like us are very inconsistent.
Sometimes even depending on factors like individual staff members' own moods at certain times, especially on the odd occasions when they may be on a short fuse themselves for whatever reason.
Even professional consultants I've had meetings with over the past decade or so have never seemed to want to tell me about potential consequences of any challenging behaviours I may occasionally display (obviously still within the law).
I just feel like I'm kept in the dark over 'rules', etc.
I don't think there are any "rules" though no matter how much you might want them put in place. I appreciate that it's very hard for you to predict other people's behaviours though. Maybe you should reassess your feelings towards "authority" figures and how they seem to threaten your mental health?
Well, you'll all be pleased to know that I definitely DO feel a lot different this morning, that my irrational feelings yesterday were just a cyclical blip, and I no longer have the urge to wind up and provoke the police or the staff at my day centre today either.
Good to hear you're feeling better :)
Good to hear you're feeling better :)
Thank you very much BI.
Now I'm off to get ready for my train journey.
Great stuff…enjoy your day:yesyes:
It all went OK today with no problems at all.
That's great news Lenco, hope you've had/having a good day.
Btw I was watching Chris Packham the other night. He was walking a stretch of the river Itchen where he grew up, while discussing how his Asperger's has affected him throughout his life. It was very moving. I have his book here too, 'Fingers in the Sparkle Jar'.
That's great news Lenco, hope you've had/having a good day.
Btw I was watching Chris Packham the other night. He was walking a stretch of the river Itchen where he grew up, while discussing how his Asperger's has affected him throughout his life. It was very moving. I have his book here too, 'Fingers in the Sparkle Jar'.
I just happen to go through these emotional cycles every now and then, where something can just trigger me out of the blue.
I always have done.
Glad today is a better day!
Although I generally had a good day at my day centre yesterday, my only real gripe was that the arrangements for the doling out of LFTs have suddenly been chopped and changed there for the umpteenth time, as my routine schedule for LFTs there was previously on Thursdays, now it's suddenly been swapped to Tuesdays.
Not so long ago the LFTs were being done to all clients on a daily basis, in which they have been flip-flopping between just once a week and every day for the past year or so. My beef was not with having the actual LFT itself, but the fact that my schedule for it had suddenly been shifted to Tuesdays and I had just eaten a chocolate bar whilst walking from the train station to the day centre, and I have read in the brochures supplied with LFT kits that it's highly recommended to wait at least 30 minutes after eating or drinking before taking a test, as the test result may be corrupted by recent food/drink consumption (any less than 30 minutes earlier).
I voiced my indignation at this constant chopping and changing of LFT schedules at my day centre and the staff said that it wasn't their decision, it was Staffs CC's decision, which just seems totally random and arbitrary, in which the staff also agree (if it ain't broke, don't fix it comes to mind). But then again Staffs CC (and probably many other likewise authorities throughout the nation) have always been known to come up with some rather arbitrary and oddball decisions and arrangements ever since I can remember.
I did state in jest to the staff member doing my LFT yesterday 'What next, stopping and searching clients at the front door to all day centres in case of weapon or drug carrying, or even the reinstatement of all things zero tolerance all over again, by order of the CC?', and they said that's totally unwarranted (at least in an area like Burton) and would be going a tad too far!
Could your day centre text or email you any new Staff CC LFT schedules so that you are prepared and not taken by surprise ? Then your anxiety wouldn't be triggered and you wouldn't need to ask these questions "in jest" but with a view to getting reassurance from staff members.
Could your day centre text or email you any new Staff CC LFT schedules so that you are prepared and not taken by surprise ? Then your anxiety wouldn't be triggered and you wouldn't need to ask these questions "in jest" but with a view to getting reassurance from staff members.
I don't really know about that Pulisa.
Whilst I'm generally satisfied with my day centre, there does seem to be elements of the 'communication breakdown' syndrome, which seems to be typical of many places these days.
And this is despite the fact that I attend there twice a week (Tuesdays and Thursdays).
Like I already said upthread, it's not having the LFTs that are the issue per se, it's just the hodge-podge arrangements that seem to keep being chopped and changed every few weeks/months, and all the attendant rigmaroles involved.
On the other hand, I guess one way round the issue is to just not eat or drink anything during the time between boarding the train in Tamworth and setting foot through the front door of my day centre, at least until the pandemic has started to peter out a bit.
I don't really know about that Pulisa.
Whilst I'm generally satisfied with my day centre, there does seem to be elements of the 'communication breakdown' syndrome, which seems to be typical of many places these days.
And this is despite the fact that I attend there twice a week (Tuesdays and Thursdays).
Like I already said upthread, it's not having the LFTs that are the issue per se, it's just the hodge-podge arrangements that seem to keep being chopped and changed every few weeks/months, and all the attendant rigmaroles involved.
On the other hand, I guess one way round the issue is to just not eat or drink anything during the time between boarding the train in Tamworth and setting foot through the front door of my day centre, at least until the pandemic has started to peter out a bit.
I think your last sentence might be the answer Lenco. These decisions are often a surprise to the staff too.
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I think your last sentence might be the answer Lenco. These decisions are often a surprise to the staff too.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That's the crux of it Scass. Nobody really seems to have any real idea about anything anymore, and people just seem to shrug it off and accept it as the way of the world nowadays.
I just like consistency and orderliness, not endless disarray, disorganisation, indifference and blame games.
Like I already said upthread, SCC have always been a right bunch of jokers ever since I can remember and regardless of political party (both themselves and central govt), but over the past 20-odd years or so in particular, they've steadily gone from bad to worse with their hodge-podge cack-handedness and strange organisation of things!
Mods, is it possible to merge my other thread titled 'Triggered by scenes of police brutality in Russia' into this thread, as the original trigger subject has now moved on.
Thanks, Lencoboy.
nomorepanic
09-03-22, 17:20
I will merge them but please just try and stick to one thread as I have asked before. Thanks
Surely there must be many clients with ASD at your day centre, Lenco? Chopping and changing arrangements is just not on without preparation beforehand to avoid unnecessary anxiety/inappropriate behaviours as a result of unexpected change in routine.
The day centre must know about these changes even if it's just the day before? Surely there's a case for informing clients/carers as soon as they are told by SCC. It's not as if they would have to send out letters in the post now.
I will merge them but please just try and stick to one thread as I have asked before. Thanks
That's precisely the reason for such a request.
Anyway, thank you very much for taking the time to merge the threads.
Surely there must be many clients with ASD at your day centre, Lenco? Chopping and changing arrangements is just not on without preparation beforehand to avoid unnecessary anxiety/inappropriate behaviours as a result of unexpected change in routine.
The day centre must know about these changes even if it's just the day before? Surely there's a case for informing clients/carers as soon as they are told by SCC. It's not as if they would have to send out letters in the post now.
There are definitely a few clients there with ASD, and for the most part seem to get treated far more fairly than at my previous day centre closer to home that was run by SCC, who were compelled to do everything 'by the book', even if certain staff members disagreed with some of the practices.
But no matter where you go, there will always be certain staff members who are very set in their ways, are a bit half-soaked where they often don't always think before they act or say things, and/or have forgetful tendencies, especially when they have a lot on their plate, and of course owing to a lot of the pressures and demands of modern-day life.
All part and parcel of being human I guess, but of course there can never be any excuse for blatantly poor practices that never seem to get addressed properly.
I wouldn't get away with not being on the ball with my 2. "Mistakes" don't go down well although they are accepted as part of being human!
Maybe your day centre staff are geared up for more broad spectrum LDs as opposed to having some degree of training in ASD?
I wouldn't get away with not being on the ball with my 2. "Mistakes" don't go down well although they are accepted as part of being human!
Maybe your day centre staff are geared up for more broad spectrum LDs as opposed to having some degree of training in ASD?
True, there are clients with a range of disabilities who attend there, from ASD, to Down's Syndrome, to cerebral palsy, etc.
Not quite sure what the training status for the staff in ASD is, but I don't think it's ever been perfect at any day centre, respite unit, school, college, hospital, you name it.
People have always treated us as a hindrance ever since time immemorial
and probably always will do to a certain extent, no matter how much training and awareness they have.
Like I said previously, people are people and can be very set in their ways, and easily bound by the pressures of wider society.
Even though my dad has often been mistrustful of 'the establishment' ever since I can remember, he has often reasoned with staff at such places making mistakes and getting unduly stroppy with people like me because he believes they have almost always been overworked and underpaid.
In fact, both my parents seemed to reason with certain staff members at my first respite unit some 30-odd years ago smoking heavily inside the premises in the assumption that they were stressed out caring for people like me, and underpaid at the same time.
Well, it wasn't my fault certain staff members smoked, as they probably took up the habit in their teens (like most smokers almost always have), which would have been long before they even met me for the first time ever. Talk about scapegoating!
It's such a shame that you think that people consider you to be a "hindrance" and treat you like one. Yet you are happy at your day centre so it can't be all bad?
Has your dad's attitude affected how you feel about yourself?
It's such a shame that you think that people consider you to be a "hindrance" and treat you like one. Yet you are happy at your day centre so it can't be all bad?
Has your dad's attitude affected how you feel about yourself?
I am happy at my day centre for the most part, but no matter where you go there will always be the odd flaws from time to time, which of course is the way of the world.
My dad is a lot more patient and understanding towards me now than ever before, which is probably in part because he was bogged down with a lot of his work commitments when I was younger, which were very demanding at times, as he worked at a college in Birmingham back in the 80s, 90s and during the first half of the 2000s prior to semi-retirement (and taking voluntary redundancy at the same time).
It was my mom that was always the 'harsher' parent, who could be quite irrational herself at times when I was a child, probably in part due to the harsh discipline she received from her dad, who was a bit sadist and oddball himself, but luckily I was never abused outright by either of my parents as a child, unlike the kids of the family who lived next door to us who used to get beaten black and blue by their parents for the most trivial of misdemeanours, and the parents were forever rowing and screaming at each other, even with all the windows wide open during the summer months.
Thankfully, that family from hell moved away from our estate for good about 30 years ago, and a far more respectable couple have been our next door neighbours ever since.
Just shows that 'problem' families can also reside in owner-occupied properties on private estates, and not just on council estates, contrary to popular belief.
I am having bad anxiety this morning, as my mom only within the last 2 days has suddenly developed the habit of bruxism (tooth-grinding), and it's really loud and irritating.
I can talk a bit because I have been doing it myself for a few years now as a form of 'stimming', but it's not very loud nor represents a 'rattling' sound like what my mom does.
I feel really guilty right now because I feel intolerant of my mom because I've always had certain misophonic tendencies myself, plus of course I'm now starting to find all this Ukraine stuff on the news extremely overwhelming, and feel dead guilty at seeing all the poor suffering folks there.
I remember about 20 years ago, when I was totally overwhelmed by lots of things all in one go, such as my parents having the news on full-blast, the usual irritations elsewhere such as things at my previous day centre, witnessing ASB from youngsters in the town centre (which was a lot more commonplace back then than now), and being disturbed by certain incidents reported in our local newspaper at the time (also often related to ASB), and my dad warned me the one day when I just snapped and had an epic meltdown that I might end up having to be admitted to an isolation hospital where I am sheltered from all the things in life that disturb me (sounds, sights, smells, you name them). He said that wouldn't have been his decision, it would have been that of the 'authorities'.
This morning I was saying to him that I wish I was in such an institution the way I'm feeling right now, so I am isolated from all the horrible things that are currently troubling me and he was saying that that doesn't happen now, and why bring up stuff that he warned me about 20 years ago now?
Because I'm struggling to cope once again, just like this time back in 2002.
Maybe it's time to use some of your lorazepam now, Lenco?
Your dad's comments are unkind and unhelpful. You don't need to fear the "authorities" and shouldn't have to carry this legacy with you from comments made 20 years ago.
Does your dad understand about why you are struggling to cope?
Maybe it's time to use some of your lorazepam now, Lenco?
Your dad's comments are unkind and unhelpful. You don't need to fear the "authorities" and shouldn't have to carry this legacy with you from comments made 20 years ago.
Does your dad understand about why you are struggling to cope?
I reckon he's probably feeling a sense of guilt and embarrassment about a lot of the things he told me 20+ years ago.
He was saying it was all he really thought he knew at the time, and was rather out of touch, in the sense that back then (in 2002) he still wasn't really aware of the fact that institutionalisation of persons like me had already started to fall out of favour several years earlier, and that such measures were (and probably still are) only ever employed as an absolute last resort, rather than willy-nilly as was often the case in the past, especially before the 90s.
It's as if many UTLAs (e.g, Staffs CC) must have had money and resources to burn prior to the 90s, in terms of keeping people like me out of sight and out of mind!
Nowadays it seems to be the polar opposite.
I wonder where your dad got his "information" from? I can't imagine saying such things to my 2 who are not that much younger than you.
I wonder where your dad got his "information" from? I can't imagine saying such things to my 2 who are not that much younger than you.
I don't know Pulisa. I don't think there was any malice, spite or ignorance involved, probably more a case of naivety and (innocently) not really knowing the full facts at the time.
Possibly also an overestimation of whatever 'powers' the authorities had, and also possible misunderstandings.
I think because he was so preoccupied with his college job back then, he never really had chance to be abreast with many latest trends outside of his immediate interests/priorities. Again, not through wilful ignorance or whatever.
But I think he now has deep regrets over some of the things he and my mom used to say that put the fear of God into me when I was younger.
I think my dad's just wiser and more knowledgeable about things in general now, which I guess becomes the case with most people over time.
I'm sure your dad regrets what he said to you when you were younger and I'm sorry that you bore the brunt of it and still carry the legacy. Your dad must have felt very much out of his comfort zone and frustrated because he didn't understand what your behaviours were trying to communicate?
I've made tonnes of mistakes bringing up my 2 but I think you're right in that you gain knowledge as time passes and it's good that you and your dad have a much better understanding now.
I'm sure your dad regrets what he said to you when you were younger and I'm sorry that you bore the brunt of it and still carry the legacy. Your dad must have felt very much out of his comfort zone and frustrated because he didn't understand what your behaviours were trying to communicate?
I've made tonnes of mistakes bringing up my 2 but I think you're right in that you gain knowledge as time passes and it's good that you and your dad have a much better understanding now.
Funny you should say that as my dad said to me a couple of years back when we were having a conversation about smacking, he said that many people ironically believed back in the day (especially before the 90s) that not smacking children amounted to neglect, though my dad has never really agreed with corporal punishments, despite him being walloped black and blue by his own parents as a child, which also happened to my mom as a child, as was the norm back in the 50s.
My dad, however, told me that the beatings he was often on the receiving end of by his dad (and school headteacher) as a child never actually stopped or deterred him from misbehaving again in future, ditto for many of his school mates who were also frequently on the receiving end of such harsh punishments.
Had an unpleasant recurring dream about my former residential school last night, where I was afraid of the windowless bath bay that was sectioned off from the main (windowed) washroom/toilet area by a wall.
I hated having baths in there, especially as certain other pupils used to deliberately turn the lights off on me as a prank while I was in there, and I often got sent to bed early as a punishment for acting hysterically in there. The staff never seemed to reprimand those other kids for messing about with the lights while I was in the bath.
I can't help but surmise it was part of some conspiracy to bully me, even instigated by the staff, especially as on a couple of occasions I was made to have a bath in that horrible scary bathroom as a punishment for inappropriate behaviours earlier on, such as laughing at those same other pupils for making loud burping and farting noises, etc.
And I bet those poxy kids got kicks out of seeing me get punished while they got off scot-free!
Using those baths in that windowless bath bay was absolute mental torture for me, it was not only like a prison cell in there but there were also vast arrays of fully exposed pipework, valves, etc, in there which also used to give me the heebies.
I had bad panic attacks at my day centre this afternoon and left an hour earlier than usual. Not actually caused nor triggered by anything there but I still can't help ruminating on the bad dream about the scary bathroom at the residential school (and my actual real-life memories of it).
I feel like I'm experiencing a recurrence of past panics over certain valves on pipework once again. I know I'm being irrational as I know they can't cause me any physical harm, but it's not a fully-fledged phobia though, thankfully.
I'm OK with all the toilets at my day centre, despite one of them being windowless. Nor do any of them have vast arrays of exposed pipework and/or ghoulish-looking valves either!
Tonight I'm having stomach pains once again and have taken some Gaviscon.
Last night I had a mishap with a glass of orange cordial in my bedroom where my hand suddenly jerked and it spilled all over my jumper. I couldn't help having flashbacks to when I was a child (right up until I was in my very early teens) when my mom used to go absolutely apesh1t at me (and sometimes even whack me) and call me things like a 'stupid bloody idiot' whenever I had such accidents, as if it was crime of the century!
I think also reading the news about Wales' smacking ban on Monday (of which I'm personally in favour of) also triggered me a bit, plus also certain remarks from some critics of said ban who not only came out with the usual 'never did past generations any harm', etc, but also believe it's pointless and a waste of time as they're aren't enough resources in place to adequately police it; not only not enough police officers themselves but also social workers, children's homes, etc, and other 'critics' believe it will unjustly 'penalise' the poor and desperate.
But what about those who aren't 'poor and desperate', and who are quite well off, who routinely resort to violence and aggression willy-nilly over the slightest issues?
But Scotland also managed to impose a smacking ban on children 2 years ago and the sky never caved in over them, nor have there been any reports so far about them being a nation ravaged by mass juvenile anarchy as a result!
I've started having irrational thoughts about things once again this afternoon, plus I have an appointment to see a clinical psychologist a week on Tuesday.
I keep having fantasies about acting up and getting people (including my dad and staff members at my day centre) to give me a pasting and/or physically restrain me.
I must have high hormones ATM.
Are you worried that the clinical psychologist is going to restrain you/section you on the spot? I'm giving you a worse case scenario here of course. In reality it is not going to happen. The appointment is to help you not to punish you. It might help to write down your worries to make things easier on Tuesday week?
Are you worried that the clinical psychologist is going to restrain you/section you on the spot? I'm giving you a worse case scenario here of course. In reality it is not going to happen. The appointment is to help you not to punish you. It might help to write down your worries to make things easier on Tuesday week?
No, I'm not necessarily worried about what the psychologist might say or do.
What I am miffed about is the way people like me are dealt with whenever we display challenging behaviours is very vague and inconsistent nowadays, unlike, say, 20+ years ago things seemed to be far more set in stone as to how we were dealt with.
I know I'm being a bit hypocritical here, as I didn't particularly agree with things like 'zero tolerance' at the time, but on the other hand, it did serve as a kind of deterrent where clients just didn't challenge the authority of the staff at day centres, or else there could be far-reaching consequences for the clients, such as physical restraints, police intervention or termination of one's day care placement, none of which seem to get mentioned anymore, neither as written warning notices nor verbal warnings by staff members themselves.
I wonder if violence and aggression towards day centre staff by clients is still out of control today, as it was allegedly reported to be some 20 years ago?
Is it at your day centre though? Would you prefer to have a rule book and a contract to sign if this would make you feel safer?
Last night I had a mishap with a glass of orange cordial in my bedroom where my hand suddenly jerked and it spilled all over my jumper. I couldn't help having flashbacks to when I was a child (right up until I was in my very early teens) when my mom used to go absolutely apesh1t at me (and sometimes even whack me) and call me things like a 'stupid bloody idiot' whenever I had such accidents, as if it was crime of the century!
I'm really sorry this happened to you Lenco and I hope you understand that it wasn't your fault?
I was exceptionally clumsy as a child and this got on my mother's nerves a lot. I was forever knocking over the Quosh (it's an age thing) but you could bet I'd knock something over in cafes! Mum used to keep in a pack of J cloths especially to deal with my spills!
I once walked in from school with a Pyrex dish of Shepherd's Pie I'd concocted in cookery lesson (sorry, domestic science) and it looked edible for once. However, in my excitement to show off my culinary creation to my parents, I promptly dropped the bugger on the floor and it went EVERYWHERE. I was in my teens by then and this particular turbulent time in my existence coincided with my mother's own hormonal crisis (menopause) and she had become somewhat unpredictable. I waited for the shit to hit the proverbial fan - if only because I'd just trashed her only Pyrex dish - but she remained silent, which was unnerving to tell the truth. Instead she reached for her pack of Silk Cut's and said, 'Well, that's our tea buggered then isn't it my girl?'. My dad, bless him, took one look at the floor and said, 'Well it looked just the job until you dropped it Chick'. Mum used to call me a 'clumsy article' or 'clumsy bugger' but there was no malice in there. And it was factual. I was a clumsy bugger! :whistles:
I'm really sorry that your mum said those terrible things to you Lenco. They're shit memories to have.
These days I try and re-write the script in order to deal with my shitty memories..
For example: you will have heard me talk about the lovely 'Julie' who belted me across the face on my first day of high school? Well these days when that memory surfaces, I try to imagine her at home being unhappy. Looking in the mirror and hating who she is. She knows that all she has going for her is her size and those two goons she calls 'friends'. Far from her being this 'tough' girl, I see her for who she really is and that her self-esteem must be lower than a rattlesnake's testicles. That's why she picks on little girls like me. If she was truly a hard ass, she would be taking on kids her own size and bigger, right? I feel some compassion for her now and I can't bring myself to hate her anymore. I can't change the past. Shit happened. But I can try and change how I want to think of it now. Otherwise I am stuck in 1982 in a manky smelling cloakroom feeling small and helpless with Big Julie heading towards me, complete with her shit perm and facial hair! :ohmy:
In fairness, this works better with some memories than others. There is one person who I cannot find any compassion for and the hate is still as strong as ever, and I only have to see them in the street to feel the hatred rise up but maybe that's because they did harm to my child? Damn it, I think I need some more therapy!:huh:
I'm really sorry this happened to you Lenco and I hope you understand that it wasn't your fault?
I was exceptionally clumsy as a child and this got on my mother's nerves a lot. I was forever knocking over the Quosh (it's an age thing) but you could bet I'd knock something over in cafes! Mum used to keep in a pack of J cloths especially to deal with my spills!
I once walked in from school with a Pyrex dish of Shepherd's Pie I'd concocted in cookery lesson (sorry, domestic science) and it looked edible for once. However, in my excitement to show off my culinary creation to my parents, I promptly dropped the bugger on the floor and it went EVERYWHERE. I was in my teens by then and this particular turbulent time in my existence coincided with my mother's own hormonal crisis (menopause) and she had become somewhat unpredictable. I waited for the shit to hit the proverbial fan - if only because I'd just trashed her only Pyrex dish - but she remained silent, which was unnerving to tell the truth. Instead she reached for her pack of Silk Cut's and said, 'Well, that's our tea buggered then isn't it my girl?'. My dad, bless him, took one look at the floor and said, 'Well it looked just the job until you dropped it Chick'. Mum used to call me a 'clumsy article' or 'clumsy bugger' but there was no malice in there. And it was factual. I was a clumsy bugger! :whistles:
I'm really sorry that your mum said those terrible things to you Lenco. They're shit memories to have.
These days I try and re-write the script in order to deal with my shitty memories..
For example: you will have heard me talk about the lovely 'Julie' who belted me across the face on my first day of high school? Well these days when that memory surfaces, I try to imagine her at home being unhappy. Looking in the mirror and hating who she is. She knows that all she has going for her is her size and those two goons she calls 'friends'. Far from her being this 'tough' girl, I see her for who she really is and that her self-esteem must be lower than a rattlesnake's testicles. That's why she picks on little girls like me. If she was truly a hard ass, she would be taking on kids her own size and bigger, right? I feel some compassion for her now and I can't bring myself to hate her anymore. I can't change the past. Shit happened. But I can try and change how I want to think of it now. Otherwise I am stuck in 1982 in a manky smelling cloakroom feeling small and helpless with Big Julie heading towards me, complete with her shit perm and facial hair! :ohmy:
In fairness, this works better with some memories than others. There is one person who I cannot find any compassion for and the hate is still as strong as ever, and I only have to see them in the street to feel the hatred rise up but maybe that's because they did harm to my child? Damn it, I think I need some more therapy!:huh:
Quosh; Blimey, that brand's a blast from the past that I haven't seen since around the mid 80s!
As for your mom reaching for the Silk Cuts after your Pyrex dish mishap, despite being ewww by today's standards in particular (sorry all smokers), it was still by far the lesser evil compared to having the sh1te bashed out of you and a load of profanities screamed into your face, which many parents, especially those with a bit of a screw loose have been known to do to their kids over the years, sometimes even for the most trivial of things, especially in my town centre back in the 80s, 90s, and even into the first half of the 2000s, of which such evil parents would probably get arrested for doing nowadays, if caught in public during normal daytime hours.
Our former next-door neighbours some 30-odd years ago were a family from hell who were forever shouting, screaming and swearing loudly with all the doors and windows wide open in the middle of summer and used to thrash their kids black and blue and have blazing rows almost on a daily basis. It also stank to high heaven in their house, of fags, booze and cat pee. They were in the forces which may have partly explained their aggressive tendencies.
I'm having fantasies this morning about having a scrap with those gobsh1te barstewards and calling the bloke a sadist child and wife-beater and the woman a 'psycho b1tch', and the pair of them 'violent alkies'.
They went to live in Germany (presumably where they were restationed by the military) and I dread to imagine what their kids might have turned out to be (another Thompson and Venables, eek), plus I wouldn't mind betting their parents are now divorced, or even in jail themselves!
It's such a shame that you are still living with the memory of them after 30 years though.
It's such a shame that you are still living with the memory of them after 30 years though.
Yes it is, and contrary to popular belief, scum like those don't just reside in council estates as our estate is a generally 'respectable' private estate that has had the odd (and shortlived) 'problem' families over the years, though thankfully not right now AFAIK, nor for quite some years.
Please don't refer to human beings as scum? It's hurtful for those of us who do live on council estates. Yes, people can behave antisocially but there are often generational issues at play.
If you're concerned about the state of the world, think about what you can do to help.
Is it at your day centre though? Would you prefer to have a rule book and a contract to sign if this would make you feel safer?
There's no warning notices about zero tolerance plastered all over the walls and notice boards in the interests of safeguarding the staff from violent and aggressive clients, but there are a couple of posters scattered around the place alerting people about spotting tell-tale signs of general abuse of clients, but no mention as to whether perpetrated by staff members, other clients, parents/carers or others.
I often wonder if zero tolerance policies in places like that back in the 2000s were a bit of a knee-jerk response to rare and relatively minor issues that were likely hyped up by the media and possibly owing to ongoing misunderstandings of persons with disabilities, or were they genuinely justifiable at the time?
Please don't refer to human beings as scum? It's hurtful for those of us who do live on council estates. Yes, people can behave antisocially but there are often generational issues at play.
If you're concerned about the state of the world, think about what you can do to help.
If you are so offended by certain posts of mine, how about not viewing this thread?
And I'm NOT having digs at ALL persons who live on council estates; I was trying to debunk the popular stereotype and was simply implying that there are good and not-so-good persons who live in all manner of housing tenure and in all walks of life.
For the record, I lived in a council house myself as a young child and whatever issues both myself and my family may have are purely coincidental and NOT in any way influenced by living in such housing, and to paraphrase 'it never did me any harm'!
In fact, I find the way social housing tenants are often treated as 'lepers' just as deplorable as you do, in the same way as I do racism, sexism, ableism, etc.
But how do we describe the genuine 'undesirables' of our society without offending the so-called 'PC brigade' and being shot down in flames? Do we just 'pretend' everyone is good and everything is fine and dandy, which is totally unrealistic and basically burying our heads in the sand?
"Less desirables?" Oh, come on! It's so much more complicated than that. Poverty is a horrendous beast, and people who've been desperate for generations do whatever they can to survive. People might commit horrendous acts sometimes, but that doesn't mean it's okay to deprive them of their humanity.
I'm perfectly fine with being referred to as politically correct, thanks, because as far as I'm concerned it's just militant politeness. It's not a question of pretending everything's fine, it's just a question of accepting that life is complex and we can never fully understand another person's lived experiences. This is why I try to keep quiet when people get reactionary on here; because it's hard to say what hardships got people to a certain point.
There is beauty in life, though, and kindness, and while I try my best I can't always keep quiet in the face of people who seem to doggedly not want to find it.
"Less desirables?" Oh, come on! It's so much more complicated than that. Poverty is a horrendous beast, and people who've been desperate for generations do whatever they can to survive. People might commit horrendous acts sometimes, but that doesn't mean it's okay to deprive them of their humanity.
I'm perfectly fine with being referred to as politically correct, thanks, because as far as I'm concerned it's just militant politeness. It's not a question of pretending everything's fine, it's just a question of accepting that life is complex and we can never fully understand another person's lived experiences. This is why I try to keep quiet when people get reactionary on here; because it's hard to say what hardships got people to a certain point.
There is beauty in life, though, and kindness, and while I try my best I can't always keep quiet in the face of people who seem to doggedly not want to find it.
I might just as well be sectioned or sentenced to imprisonment then simply for speaking my mind, despite no actual intention of offending nor hurting anyone.
I might just as well be sectioned or sentenced to imprisonment then simply for speaking my mind, despite no actual intention of offending nor hurting anyone.
That's a bit of an overreaction, isn't it?
That's a bit of an overreaction, isn't it?
I've been lambasted by others (elsewhere and not on here) in the past for saying that I don't agree with the death sentence, full-on corporal punishment of children, etc and lectured about the fact that we live in a democratic society and everyone has a right to their own opinions, right or wrong.
But obviously not me!
Plus societies where the above are still routine practices are barbaric and far-removed from democratic IMO!
You're allowed to have your opinion, but I'm also allowed to disagree with it; vocally, if I so wish.
Some sincerely meant advice: if you're not comfortable with the backlash that may come from saying a thing, don't say it. There's always going to be somebody awkward who's going to try and get into a debate, and it's not worth getting hurt over. I don't think anybody on here has ever disagreed with your stance on the death penalty or corporal punishment?
Basically, it's a question of picking your audience.
You're allowed to have your opinion, but I'm also allowed to disagree with it; vocally, if I so wish.
Some sincerely meant advice: if you're not comfortable with the backlash that may come from saying a thing, don't say it. There's always going to be somebody awkward who's going to try and get into a debate, and it's not worth getting hurt over. I don't think anybody on here has ever disagreed with your stance on the death penalty or corporal punishment?
Basically, it's a question of picking your audience.
The Digital Spy forum used to be full of threads intensely debating the virtues and demerits of the death sentence and CP of children back in the 2000s and very early 2010s, both of which a lot more members of said forum seemed to be more in favour of back then and often resulted in severe arguments within such threads.
As the 2010s wore on, and right up until their 'General Discussion' and 'politics' sub-sections were discontinued for new threads/posts about a year ago, such intense debates over both topics lessened significantly and most posters gradually seemed to oppose such things a lot more.
Those views and opinions back in the 2000s obviously reflected the zeitgeist of the time, and of course the obsession with nostalgia for 'gentler' times that probably never actually existed, which also seemed to be at its height in the 2000s, plus also a lot of the 'Broken Britain' malarkey of the time!
Ditto for a lot of the (ill-fated) zero tolerance stuff.
This is why I'd never want to spend time on boards like those.
This is why I'd never want to spend time on boards like those.
I can't say I blame you, as they could be full of venom and vitriol at times.
Whilst I was never a member of said forum, I often used to browse various threads as some posts I often found amusing and humorous.
Maybe focus more on the positive aspects of your life in general? You may find you're happier that way.
Maybe focus more on the positive aspects of your life in general? You may find you're happier that way.
Trouble is, it's difficult to right now, especially as me and my dad are largely at the mercy of my mom's worsening dementia problems.
My brother rarely supports us either, though not through full-on malice or ignorance.
I can't claim to understand what you're going through, only that it must be very, very hard.
Ruminating on past wrongs won't help you, though. I know I'm going to sound like a broken record here, but I really think that doing something new might make things better even if it's only an hour or two in college each week.
The Digital Spy forum used to be full of threads intensely debating the virtues and demerits of the death sentence and CP of children back in the 2000s and very early 2010s, both of which a lot more members of said forum seemed to be more in favour of back then and often resulted in severe arguments within such threads.
As the 2010s wore on, and right up until their 'General Discussion' and 'politics' sub-sections were discontinued for new threads/posts about a year ago, such intense debates over both topics lessened significantly and most posters gradually seemed to oppose such things a lot more.
Those views and opinions back in the 2000s obviously reflected the zeitgeist of the time, and of course the obsession with nostalgia for 'gentler' times that probably never actually existed, which also seemed to be at its height in the 2000s, plus also a lot of the 'Broken Britain' malarkey of the time!
Ditto for a lot of the (ill-fated) zero tolerance stuff.
I thought the 2000s was a rather strange decade in general, where a lot of people seemed to develop very right-wing views over many issues, especially during the latter half of said decade.
I'm not saying all right-wing views are bad per se, but I also think that was the time when misinformation and 'fake news' really started in earnest, even though most people seemed blase about it at the time, and largely seemed to dismiss it as 'freedom of expression'.
I also recall there being a fair amount of indignant talk of 'PC-gawn-mad' back then, which doesn't seem quite so prevalent now as back then, plus I also recall quite a few people I knew back then who were previously quite easy-going and down-to-earth suddenly developed very radical and irrational views about young people in particular at that time, seemingly forgetting that they were young people once upon a time too, but the typical pangs of 'our generation were far superior and had things far better back in the 70s-80s, etc'!
Not my words but theirs.
This is why I'd never want to spend time on boards like those.
Me neither. I can't really see the point in getting wound up by online debates.
As for your mom reaching for the Silk Cuts after your Pyrex dish mishap, despite being ewww by today's standards in particular (sorry all smokers), it was still by far the lesser evil compared to having the sh1te bashed out of you and a load of profanities screamed into your face, which many parents, especially those with a bit of a screw loose have been known to do to their kids over the years, sometimes even for the most trivial of things, especially in my town centre back in the 80s, 90s, and even into the first half of the 2000s, of which such evil parents would probably get arrested for doing nowadays, if caught in public during normal daytime hours.
The comparison was more to do with how clumsy I was..
Our former next-door neighbours some 30-odd years ago were a family from hell who were forever shouting, screaming and swearing loudly with all the doors and windows wide open in the middle of summer and used to thrash their kids black and blue and have blazing rows almost on a daily basis. It also stank to high heaven in their house, of fags, booze and cat pee. They were in the forces which may have partly explained their aggressive tendencies.
This must have been very distressful to have to have to listen to. However, instead of wishing to match violence with violence, you could think about how this situation might have come to be. As in, maybe those adults were abused themselves as children? Maybe that's all they knew? If you could see them as kids being hurt by their parents, would that change you wanting to hurt them? Would that alter your opinion in any way at all?
I'm having fantasies this morning about having a scrap with those gobsh1te barstewards and calling the bloke a sadist child and wife-beater and the woman a 'psycho b1tch', and the pair of them 'violent alkies'.
And what would it achieve if this was possible?
They went to live in Germany (presumably where they were restationed by the military) and I dread to imagine what their kids might have turned out to be (another Thompson and Venables, eek), plus I wouldn't mind betting their parents are now divorced, or even in jail themselves!
Re military. My father-in-law was in the army, serving in Northern Ireland in the 70s. The horrors (no other word would do here) he witnessed there was enough to turn him atheist and right up until two days before his death decades later. My cousin served in the army and his best mate was shot dead while on parade. War & conflict changes people. Maybe the father of this family you speak of also experienced severe trauma and had a form of PTSD? 30 years ago is the 90s, right? Did he serve in the Gulf war or Bosnia? Nothing excuses abuse but there is always a reason for it, right?
Maybe their kids turned out just fine? It's not a cert that abusive parents breed abusive children. They might be happy? Maybe they went on to better things and their childhood was the catalyst?
Maybe the bloke was able to sort himself out and be a better person? Maybe his Mrs got off the sauce and turned her life around too? If this was true, how would it make you feel?
What I'm saying to you is this. All you are achieving with these violent fantasies is to create more toxicity & heartache for yourself. You are fighting a ghost- a memory - and I've done this myself countless times. It's self-harm. Can you see that?
Nora, thank you for putting this so much more eloquently than I've been able to.
Trouble is, it's difficult to right now, especially as me and my dad are largely at the mercy of my mom's worsening dementia problems.
My brother rarely supports us either, though not through full-on malice or ignorance.
is your dad still very much against the idea of getting help with your mum? I know it's very difficult to get outside help but for the sake of YOUR mental health as well? Maybe the psychologist you are due to see could add her input towards getting some help for you both?
is your dad still very much against the idea of getting help with your mum? I know it's very difficult to get outside help but for the sake of YOUR mental health as well? Maybe the psychologist you are due to see could add her input towards getting some help for you both?
He thinks her going to live in a care home is sadly getting closer every day, but I guess sometimes people have to be cruel to be kind.
I know it's probably hurtful and non-PC to say this, but we will both no doubt feel as though a massive weight has finally been lifted from our shoulders when that fateful day arrives.
We will still both be absolutely devastated though, of course, despite the obvious sense of freedom.
The comparison was more to do with how clumsy I was..
This must have been very distressful to have to have to listen to. However, instead of wishing to match violence with violence, you could think about how this situation might have come to be. As in, maybe those adults were abused themselves as children? Maybe that's all they knew? If you could see them as kids being hurt by their parents, would that change you wanting to hurt them? Would that alter your opinion in any way at all?
And what would it achieve if this was possible?
Re military. My father-in-law was in the army, serving in Northern Ireland in the 70s. The horrors (no other word would do here) he witnessed there was enough to turn him atheist and right up until two days before his death decades later. My cousin served in the army and his best mate was shot dead while on parade. War & conflict changes people. Maybe the father of this family you speak of also experienced severe trauma and had a form of PTSD? 30 years ago is the 90s, right? Did he serve in the Gulf war or Bosnia? Nothing excuses abuse but there is always a reason for it, right?
Maybe their kids turned out just fine? It's not a cert that abusive parents breed abusive children. They might be happy? Maybe they went on to better things and their childhood was the catalyst?
Maybe the bloke was able to sort himself out and be a better person? Maybe his Mrs got off the sauce and turned her life around too? If this was true, how would it make you feel?
What I'm saying to you is this. All you are achieving with these violent fantasies is to create more toxicity & heartache for yourself. You are fighting a ghost- a memory - and I've done this myself countless times. It's self-harm. Can you see that?
I'm not feeling like fighting that particular ghost of the past quite so much today, but it's more the 2000s I am having flashbacks to right now, and the strange attitudes a lot of people seemed to have during that particular decade, where certain people (especially on Digital Spy and other forums) strongly believed in capital punishment and school caning being reinstated, especially in view of a lot of the moral panics over out-of-control youngsters back then, which thankfully don't seem to get mentioned quite so much now.
And back in the previous decade (the 90s), it was car crime/joyriders, Ecstasy, video nasties and underage binge drinking that the media were putting the fear of God into us over, most of which also don't seem to figure as much in everyday conversation nowadays.
You don't need to live in the past, though, and by doing so you're only hurting yourself.
Work on creating a better present instead.
I'm not feeling like fighting that particular ghost of the past quite so much today, but it's more the 2000s I am having flashbacks to right now, and the strange attitudes a lot of people seemed to have during that particular decade, where certain people (especially on Digital Spy and other forums) strongly believed in capital punishment and school caning being reinstated, especially in view of a lot of the moral panics over out-of-control youngsters back then, which thankfully don't seem to get mentioned quite so much now.
Wherever there are people, there will be attitudes you don't agree with - regardless of the decade.
My advice is to stay away from those forums Lenco. These subjects are too triggering for you and all you are doing is to re-live the trauma from your past which is making your 'present' crap.
Do something you enjoy instead?
video nasties
I've starred in a couple of video nasties. My 1st wedding for one. :roflmao:
and underage binge drinking
Maybe now isn't the time to mention my Sanatogen wine induced coma at the age of 13? :unsure:
You don't need to live in the past, though, and by doing so you're only hurting yourself.
Work on creating a better present instead.
Very good advice!
Lenco, it sounds like you're having a particularly rough time. As said before, avoid forums that trigger you, keep yourself busy, give the dog an extra walk and I feel you have a really sharp mind - could you focus on learning something new?
Nora, I've had my share of binge drinking incidents too. Going out for a breath of fresh air on my 18th birthday was an error of mine, I had to crawl back into the pub by following the light coming out of the door. Not my finest hour, unfortunately there are many more ....
He thinks her going to live in a care home is sadly getting closer every day, but I guess sometimes people have to be cruel to be kind.
I know it's probably hurtful and non-PC to say this, but we will both no doubt feel as though a massive weight has finally been lifted from our shoulders when that fateful day arrives.
We will still both be absolutely devastated though, of course, despite the obvious sense of freedom.
It's entirely normal to feel like this and I appreciate just how hard each day must be for you and your dad. Do you find some sort of refuge in these forums even though they trigger you? i know that any sort of change isn't particularly welcome but have you thought about what you could do for enjoyment outside of the day centre? You must find client unpredictability there challenging at times?
It's entirely normal to feel like this and I appreciate just how hard each day must be for you and your dad. Do you find some sort of refuge in these forums even though they trigger you? i know that any sort of change isn't particularly welcome but have you thought about what you could do for enjoyment outside of the day centre? You must find client unpredictability there challenging at times?
I do find this forum a bit of a refuge during times of greater anxiety (obviously like everyone else who posts on here), especially when my dad is feeling too mentally drained himself to console me.
Nobody on here really triggers me as I generally feel understanding and tolerant of most others on here, even though I've had the odd disagreements with a couple of other forum members on occasions, but I don't have any bad feelings nor hatred towards them, as they're only human themselves at the end of the day.
Fortunately there aren't any clients at my day centre with severely challenging behaviours, nor any mega irate, power-mad staff members, both of which I suppose can act as a vicious circle, which was sometimes the case at both my previous day centre and virtually every school I attended as a child.
I was just intrigued as to why zero tolerance policies in places like day centres became so fashionable back in the 2000s and kind of petered out as the 2010s wore on. It just seemed like it was largely engendered in the general atmosphere and culture of that particular era.
My dad reckons is probably because staff members in places like day centres are better trained nowadays than they probably were some 20 years ago. He also believes society in general is probably much better informed and enlightened now than back then.
Last week was Neurodiversity Celebration Week. There is so much more awareness now. There could well be a niche for you in the volunteer sector-with support of course-which could give you some independence and a sense of self-esteem? Away from an institutionalised regime which may make you feel safer but which could be limiting?
Lenco, listen to what Pulisa is saying to you. You don't need to be imprisoned by the past.
You have such specialised knowledge. It's such a shame you don't use it to benefit some firm in your community. Don't be held back by your past as Blue says. Change is scary but it could liberate you from the torments of the past?
Also Lenco, there should be other options available for help with your mum. Mine also had dementia, and if you speak to a charity like age uk they should be able to point you towards care for her at home. Is she still mobile? Or does she need help with washing etc? Care homes are very expensive and there might be some other options if your Dad is interested.
MyNameIsTerry
28-03-22, 22:33
Also Lenco, there should be other options available for help with your mum. Mine also had dementia, and if you speak to a charity like age uk they should be able to point you towards care for her at home. Is she still mobile? Or does she need help with washing etc? Care homes are very expensive and there might be some other options if your Dad is interested.
Even if one option allows your dad some small respite without a care home. Someone freeing him up from his responsibilities for a few hours now & then might help him. I suspect, from what you've said about his unwillingness to let you go into respite, that he feels it's his duty. Maybe he feels it a failure to have more help?
That's understandable but it may be he is backing himself into a corner. If having some at home help delays permanent care because he can cope better it broadens his options. Maybe he's just seeking home or care home? I think my dad struggles with this and I remind him not to see it in black & white terms.
MyNameIsTerry
28-03-22, 22:35
Last week was Neurodiversity Celebration Week. There is so much more awareness now. There could well be a niche for you in the volunteer sector-with support of course-which could give you some independence and a sense of self-esteem? Away from an institutionalised regime which may make you feel safer but which could be limiting?
I agree with this too. You're an intelligent guy with a lot to give. Your mental health battles have given you insights others don't have which can be channelled into helping others struggling to reach where you are.
MyNameIsTerry
28-03-22, 22:47
I thought the 2000s was a rather strange decade in general, where a lot of people seemed to develop very right-wing views over many issues, especially during the latter half of said decade.
I'm not saying all right-wing views are bad per se, but I also think that was the time when misinformation and 'fake news' really started in earnest, even though most people seemed blase about it at the time, and largely seemed to dismiss it as 'freedom of expression'.
I also recall there being a fair amount of indignant talk of 'PC-gawn-mad' back then, which doesn't seem quite so prevalent now as back then, plus I also recall quite a few people I knew back then who were previously quite easy-going and down-to-earth suddenly developed very radical and irrational views about young people in particular at that time, seemingly forgetting that they were young people once upon a time too, but the typical pangs of 'our generation were far superior and had things far better back in the 70s-80s, etc'!
Not my words but theirs.
It won't be prevalent now because the term woke has been coined.
People are reactionary, it's human nature. Left or right wing, both sides have horrible bigoted people the more you head towards the fringes. Much of the public attitude will be driven by politicians and the media. Stick around long enough and you see the cycles.
Binge drinking and antisocial behaviour predates the Vikings! It just became today's fashionable money making cause for someone or a group in fashion.
Today we complain about current tech. No doubt they complained about people zipping around in cars. Robots sacking our workers. Coachmen had the same argument.
It's all part of our evolution and it will go on with or without us. That's why 'meh' isn't a recent invention either :biggrin:
Reminds me of Henry Davenport in Drop The Dead Donkey mocking it with 'I bet the dinosaurs went around complaining "you didn't get all this egg stealing back in the good old jurassic period"' :biggrin:
(Yes, I know that's historically incorrect but take it up with Channel 4)
Thanks all for your replies.
See you in the morning.
Nora, I've had my share of binge drinking incidents too. Going out for a breath of fresh air on my 18th birthday was an error of mine, I had to crawl back into the pub by following the light coming out of the door. Not my finest hour, unfortunately there are many more ....
Actually, my 18th was a very sober affair. My son was three months old and still on the nip so no alcohol for me. I made up for it on my 21st. :yesyes:
You're an intelligent guy with a lot to give. Your mental health battles have given you insights others don't have which can be channelled into helping others struggling to reach where you are.
Totally agree with this. However, in order to help others Lenco would need to help himself first otherwise he would become overwhelmed by people's struggles as well as his own..
Absolutely, Nora. My concern for Lenco right now is that he's as stuck in his own rut as the likes of Phil and the other serial posters.
Being "stuck" is such a huge challenge and it's easy to put the mental "shutters" down but not so easy to allow a modicum of flexibility in that rigidity.
I think it's really important to have the right professional support and that means someone who has done more than a short course on the complexities of ASD and someone who who is prepared to go the extra mile in helping their client to fulfill their potential.
Totally agree with this. However, in order to help others Lenco would need to help himself first otherwise he would become overwhelmed by people's struggles as well as his own...
Couldn't agree with this more.
Absolutely, Nora. My concern for Lenco right now is that he's as stuck in his own rut as the likes of Phil and the other serial posters.
Lenco's definitely stuck in a certain mindset which is incredibly difficult to control. He doesn't know how to handle his triggers and so it all comes out in a very self-destructive way.
Triggers happen. I get triggered a lot but I have become better at dealing with them by using distraction and re-framing. What I *try* not to do is go looking for them which is what Lenco is doing here and by purposely exposing himself to the news and forums like Digital Spy. This thread is a trigger. The title. 'Triggered by injustice' is a trigger in itself. It will have stirred up all those traumatic memories and feelings for him and then it's a matter of time for them to settle back down, that is until the next trigger. And the anger he feels is obvious in his writing. In some people this might actually be cathartic? But that doesn't seem to be the case here. From my perspective, it only serves to fuel his negative emotions, not diffuse them. What he needs is help in learning to come to terms with his past, to better handle his triggers, and to focus more on what's positive in his life or what could be. It's not at all easy but it is possible. I like Lenco. He lays himself bare like I do. His brain is wired up differently (like mine is) and that's a fight in itself because it is totally at odds with the world around us. Autism is a tough gig and it puts up some major obstacles but nothing is impossible; it's just a matter of finding what's right for us and believing that we can improve our existence. And only when we have achieved this can we really help others in any therapeutic way. Saying 'I know how you feel' is half of what needs to happen. 'And this is what you need to try & do' is the other..
Lenco's definitely stuck in a certain mindset which is incredibly difficult to control. He doesn't know how to handle his triggers and so it all comes out in a very self-destructive way.
Triggers happen. I get triggered a lot but I have become better at dealing with them by using distraction and re-framing. What I *try* not to do is go looking for them which is what Lenco is doing here and by purposely exposing himself to the news and forums like Digital Spy. This thread is a trigger. The title. 'Triggered by injustice' is a trigger in itself. It will have stirred up all those traumatic memories and feelings for him and then it's a matter of time for them to settle back down, that is until the next trigger. And the anger he feels is obvious in his writing. In some people this might actually be cathartic? But that doesn't seem to be the case here. From my perspective, it only serves to fuel his negative emotions, not diffuse them. What he needs is help in learning to come to terms with his past, to better handle his triggers, and to focus more on what's positive in his life or what could be. It's not at all easy but it is possible. I like Lenco. He lays himself bare like I do. His brain is wired up differently (like mine is) and that's a fight in itself because it is totally at odds with the world around us. Autism is a tough gig and it puts up some major obstacles but nothing is impossible; it's just a matter of finding what's right for us and believing that we can improve our existence. And only when we have achieved this can we really help others in any therapeutic way. Saying 'I know how you feel' is half of what needs to happen. 'And this is what you need to try & do' is the other..
It's getting through the barrier of that second "half" though...My son always says "good point" and then shuts up shop.
Thanks all for your replies.
See you in the morning.
Please don't shut these ideas down, Lenco? At least keep them in your thoughts as a way of getting some respite and distance from the desire to engage in triggering online forums?
It's getting through the barrier of that second "half" though...My son always says "good point" and then shuts up shop.
The second part is where the work is and it's never ending work because it's a constant fight against how the autistic mind wants to be. I've got awareness of how my thoughts/actions are fuelling my anxiety disorders - and health in general - but it's only been a fairly recent understanding (six years). It was the mental breakdown which forced me to do something about my shit. I don't advocate having mental breakdowns as a way of self-help (and I wouldn't wish one on anybody) but it actually did me a favour or two. Gave me some fight to kick some arse before I die, albeit my own arse. :D
The second part is where the work is and it's never ending work because it's a constant fight against how the autistic mind wants to be. I've got awareness of how my thoughts/actions are fuelling my anxiety disorders - and health in general - but it's only been a fairly recent understanding (six years). It was the mental breakdown which forced me to do something about my shit. I don't advocate having mental breakdowns as a way of self-help (and I wouldn't wish one on anybody) but it actually did me a favour or two. Gave me some fight to kick some arse before I die, albeit my own arse. :D
It's a crying shame you remained undiagnosed well into your adulthood Nora.
They often say it's more the diagnoses of ASD that's increasing the world over, rather than the prevalence of the actual condition itself.
I think we, together with persons with other disabilities such as Down's Syndrome, are also generally accepted more into mainstream society nowadays, which is another reason why we superficially seem more prevalent, unlike in the past (especially before the 90s), people with disabilities in general were often condemned to (out of sight, out of mind) residential care and at very least, day centres that were far more regimented than today (essentially far more school-like and sometimes even a bit hospital-like), and also, unlike today, almost never a cat in hell's chance of employment opportunities!
But that's now progress, even though there's still more work to be done.
I think a lot of progress has been made-especially in the diagnosis of female ASD- which has led to the greater number of diagnoses in adulthood. My GP didn't know much about autism when I asked for my daughter-aged 2-to be assessed so I had to do all the ground work and diagnosis was easily achieved. This was nearly 30 years ago though.
There's a lot of work being done re autism in the workplace with many employers wanting to learn more so that they can fully support their employees and be aware of potential difficulties.
I think a lot of progress has been made-especially in the diagnosis of female ASD- which has led to the greater number of diagnoses in adulthood. My GP didn't know much about autism when I asked for my daughter-aged 2-to be assessed so I had to do all the ground work and diagnosis was easily achieved. This was nearly 30 years ago though.
There's a lot of work being done re autism in the workplace with many employers wanting to learn more so that they can fully support their employees and be aware of potential difficulties.
Exactly my point Pulisa.
Also, it often used to be assumed that ASD predominantly affected males but it's actually a lot more prevalent in females than was previously realised, and no doubt 'twas ever thus' without us really being as aware of it previously.
But of course we now live in far more enlightened times in general, of which we can certainly consider progress in the grand scheme of things.
Glad you can see this, Lenco. No reason why you shouldn't take advantage of these enlightened times and challenge yourself just a little bit then? Something outside the home but with support and not in an institutionalised setting? Just to give you some variety and a chance to escape from the issues at home?
It's a crying shame you remained undiagnosed well into your adulthood Nora.
Anno. I don't think I would be as much of a wreck if I'd been diagnosed earlier and supported, but this is the case with so many of us right?
However, what I went through gave me the strength and the drive to fight for my son's place in specialist school & to get him the support he needs. I was determined that his story would be different to mine and it is.
I think we, together with persons with other disabilities such as Down's Syndrome, are also generally accepted more into mainstream society nowadays, which is another reason why we superficially seem more prevalent, unlike in the past (especially before the 90s), people with disabilities in general were often condemned to (out of sight, out of mind) residential care and at very least, day centres that were far more regimented than today (essentially far more school-like and sometimes even a bit hospital-like), and also, unlike today, almost never a cat in hell's chance of employment opportunities!
Things are better than they used to be Lenco but how much of this is a case of companies ticking a box as opposed to genuine acceptance and recognition of the value of autistics in the workplace etc, I don't know?
But that's now progress, even though there's still more work to be done.
Much more, I'd say.....
Having a terrible time this morning.
Yesterday my train back home was cancelled due to a fire upline (of a building adjoining the train track) and my dad picked me up from Burton with my mom in the front seat of the car (where he doesn't normally let her sit these days and I was in the back with the child locks on). When we were almost home, my dad called at the local Co-op store to purchase the food for last night's meal, and my mom was getting very agitated while my dad was in the shop (me and my mom were waiting in the car outside), then my mom attempted to escape from the car and I held onto her arm trying to keep her from running off as I was trapped in the back due to the child locks, and she hit me and also screamed that she was going to kill me (perhaps not literally), and she was playing my dad up all evening at home, refusing to co-operate with him.
I felt a severe urge to flip out last night, and I'm feeling like doing something that will get me arrested or sectioned.
I really feel as though I hate both myself and my mom right now!
And this is serious, not an April Fool joke!
You need to contact her GP or social services. With all due respect, her condition at this stage sounds way above the paygrade of non-professionals.
You need to contact her GP or social services. With all due respect, her condition at this stage sounds way above the paygrade of non-professionals.
Me and my dad sadly think her days living with us in this house are now numbered.
My dad admitted later that he screwed up himself by letting her sit in the front seat of the car on that occasion, whilst I was trapped in the back with the child locks on, where my mom would normally have been sitting.
I really want out of my family right now, especially as I feel in danger of doing something nasty myself (not anything as extreme or crazy as say, committing murder, suicide, etc, though).
It's okay, nobody thinks you're a danger to yourself or anyone else. It sounds like a legitimately frightening experience, and I think absolutely anybody would have been rattled by it.
I just wish I was in a padded cell right now.
You don't need to be, though. Would it help to scream into a pillow, perhaps, or find some old crockery you could smash?
It was down to your dad to keep you both safe whilst he went into the Co op and no doubt he was tired and had to come out in a hurry to collect you so made a human error in putting your mum in the front in his haste to come and get you and not leave you stranded.
Your dad is elderly and has a lot on his mind. It's really easy to slip up and you ended up being trapped with your mum's challenging behaviour and you were both terrified.
Take a lorazepam to help with the spiralling anxiety, Lenco? You are not going to commit any crime or get sectioned. It was just a frightening experience but you kept your mum safe so all credit to you.
Sounds like you're going through an absolute nightmare Lenco & I am truly sorry for you.
The reality is that your dad's got enough on his plate trying to cope with your mum. He can do without his son being sectioned right now so speak to whoever you need to speak to to get you through this?
We're here too..
It was down to your dad to keep you both safe whilst he went into the Co op and no doubt he was tired and had to come out in a hurry to collect you so made a human error in putting your mum in the front in his haste to come and get you and not leave you stranded.
Your dad is elderly and has a lot on his mind. It's really easy to slip up and you ended up being trapped with your mum's challenging behaviour and you were both terrified.
Take a lorazepam to help with the spiralling anxiety, Lenco? You are not going to commit any crime or get sectioned. It was just a frightening experience but you kept your mum safe so all credit to you.
My dad actually admitted himself that he made a mistake by letting my mom sit in the front of the car and me in the back yesterday, as he thought it would be nice for my mom to see the fields, etc on the journey yesterday afternoon, and he simply forgot about the child locks on the doors to the rear of the car, obviously due to him having a lot on his plate right now.
Mind you, my mom used to leave me in the bath unattended for up to an hour or so from the age of 2 1/2 onwards, and never even gave H & S, etc, as much as a second thought back then, even though luckily I never came to any physical harm.
But that's a whole 'nother story.
Mind you, my mom used to leave me in the bath unattended for up to an hour or so from the age of 2 1/2 onwards, and never even gave H & S, etc, as much as a second thought back then, even though luckily I never came to any physical harm.
Is that a memory? I can't remember anything from when I was that young..
Is that a memory? I can't remember anything from when I was that young..
At the risk of being overly brutal, I think you've formed a heck of a lot more memories than Lenco probably has.
Is that a memory? I can't remember anything from when I was that young..
One of my earliest memories.
There were probably lots of other things that went on back then (and before) that would no doubt be considered unthinkable, and indeed irresponsible, by much of the current generation today. My dad said a lot of parents near where he lived in Birmingham as a child back in the 50s-60s used to leave their kids home alone most evenings while they went down the pub, with the poor kids stuck at home in candlelight peering out of the windows, due to their alkie parents squandering money on booze (and probably fags too) instead of paying the leccy bills, all of which would quite rightly warrant intervention from SS nowadays!
But of course we live in more enlightened times now and often didn't know any better with regards certain things that are increasingly frowned upon nowadays.
Sounds like you're going through an absolute nightmare Lenco & I am truly sorry for you.
The reality is that your dad's got enough on his plate trying to cope with your mum. He can do without his son being sectioned right now so speak to whoever you need to speak to to get you through this?
We're here too..
I can assure you that being sectioned is not done "just like that", Lenco. It is a legal procedure and is only done in extreme circumstances and by a relevant professional./
I hope you have considered the lorazepam and that you are feeling less agitated? I'd advise you to stay off any triggering threads?
I can assure you that being sectioned is not done "just like that", Lenco. It is a legal procedure and is only done in extreme circumstances and by a relevant professional./
I hope you have considered the lorazepam and that you are feeling less agitated? I'd advise you to stay off any triggering threads?
You'll be pleased to know I've felt much calmer since this afternoon.
Plus my mom has generally been a lot better so far today, which has obviously helped a fair bit.
I'm glad to hear that and I'm sure her unpredictability and aggression towards you must have really shaken you up.
You could always talk about this to the psychologist on Tuesday? Only if you wanted to though.
I can assure you that being sectioned is not done "just like that", Lenco. It is a legal procedure and is only done in extreme circumstances and by a relevant professional./
Why did you quote me P?
One of my earliest memories.
There were probably lots of other things that went on back then (and before) that would no doubt be considered unthinkable, and indeed irresponsible, by much of the current generation today. My dad said a lot of parents near where he lived in Birmingham as a child back in the 50s-60s used to leave their kids home alone most evenings while they went down the pub, with the poor kids stuck at home in candlelight peering out of the windows, due to their alkie parents squandering money on booze (and probably fags too) instead of paying the leccy bills, all of which would quite rightly warrant intervention from SS nowadays!
Different times Lenco. Call the Midwife is quite the enlightening show and is historically accurate.
And the further back we go the worse things were for kids. We used to put kids to work from the ages of about 6 don't forget (and it was legal)
At the risk of being overly brutal, I think you've formed a heck of a lot more memories than Lenco probably has.
Sorry for sounding thick but I don't follow?
I mean that you've spent a lot more time getting out there and living your life than he has.
Why did you quote me P?
Only because I didn't want Lenco to think that there was the slightest chance of him being sectioned after what he had described.
Only because I didn't want Lenco to think that there was the slightest chance of him being sectioned after what he had described.
Just like you upthread, my dad actually explained to me on Thursday evening that people like me can't just be sectioned willy-nilly like we used to be back in the (not so) good old days, and also believes that for the most part, we're much better informed and understanding now than we were even still as recently as the 2000s.
He said that many believed it was the quickest and easiest option back in the day, but he also believed that many people like me were needlessly deprived of our liberties, often because it simply suited many of the authorities' agendas at the time, and of course the typical 'treating the symptoms rather than the underlying causes'.
I think you do yourself down by describing yourself as amongst the "people like me" tag which sounds derogatory and inferior to people who don't have "labels" as such but who might be really horrible individuals. Have you always thought of yourself like this? It's such a shame, Lenco. I do hope you get some decent support following your appointment on Tuesday, especially with improving your sense of self-worth.
Good luck for your appointment, Lenco.
Only because I didn't want Lenco to think that there was the slightest chance of him being sectioned after what he had described.
Ah ok..
I could have worded that better couldn't I?
I was in a similar situation to Lenco, as in I also 'wanted' to be sectioned. In reality it was me desperately wanting to be out of my situation and to be medicated - literally out of my mind - so I didn't have to think. In reality I was no danger to anybody, not even myself. If thoughts alone were enough to get someone sectioned then I'd have been taken away years ago. (thank you OCD) However, saying this thought out loud to my husband upset him. I learned that when I came out of the other side of the breakdown. I've since tried to reverse roles and I'm reminded of when I was the carer to someone who was having a breakdown. I was scared & upset too as they were coming out with all kinds of stuff - including wanting to be sectioned (there's a pattern here) and all at a time when I was vulnerable myself & struggling to cope, so when I wrote the above to Lenco it was very much with that in mind. I'm not saying he's having a breakdown by the way, but his MH is fragile at this stressful time, and it's understandable. With the right support, he will get through it..
You don't need to justify what you wrote, Nora..I'm just sensitive to sectioning in view of what happened to my son which was way beyond thoughts.
I hope that today's appointment with the psychologist will be beneficial and that the right support will be offered. Also that this support won't involve a long wait.
You don't need to justify what you wrote, Nora..
I do when I get it wrong P. I could have worded that a lot better than I did...
I'm just sensitive to sectioning in view of what happened to my son which was way beyond thoughts.
Yes, and it's understandable that you would be.
Ah ok..
I could have worded that better couldn't I?
I was in a similar situation to Lenco, as in I also 'wanted' to be sectioned. In reality it was me desperately wanting to be out of my situation and to be medicated - literally out of my mind - so I didn't have to think. In reality I was no danger to anybody, not even myself. If thoughts alone were enough to get someone sectioned then I'd have been taken away years ago. (thank you OCD) However, saying this thought out loud to my husband upset him. I learned that when I came out of the other side of the breakdown. I've since tried to reverse roles and I'm reminded of when I was the carer to someone who was having a breakdown. I was scared & upset too as they were coming out with all kinds of stuff - including wanting to be sectioned (there's a pattern here) and all at a time when I was vulnerable myself & struggling to cope, so when I wrote the above to Lenco it was very much with that in mind. I'm not saying he's having a breakdown by the way, but his MH is fragile at this stressful time, and it's understandable. With the right support, he will get through it..
I think that exactly sums up how I was feeling last Thursday-Friday.
I was viewing the thoughts of institutionalisation as a kind of 'escape', coupled with the perception of society (or at least certain subsets of it) seeing people with disabilities as a hindrance, and sometimes even used as a 'scapegoat' for problems (in a similar sense to foreigners/immigrants /ethnic minorities being on the receiving end of likewise unjust attitudes and prejudices).
Nor am I currently believed to pose a danger to anyone or myself.
You don't need to justify what you wrote, Nora..I'm just sensitive to sectioning in view of what happened to my son which was way beyond thoughts.
I hope that today's appointment with the psychologist will be beneficial and that the right support will be offered. Also that this support won't involve a long wait.
Pulisa, I'm really sorry about what happened to your son, and for inadvertently triggering you over your past experiences.
Sounds like sectioning/ institutionalisation is a far more sensitive and thorny issue than I previously assumed.
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