View Full Version : Football hooliganism
With the World Cup just on the horizon, and with recent reports of aggro at footie matches (both at home recently and in Paris over the weekend), I'm dreading the potential for mass public unrest and anarchy in this country alone.
People are already (reportedly) using the recent pandemic as a 'scapegoat' for unruly behaviours, plus of course people will inevitably be angry about Partygate and the COL crisis as well.
Sorry to sound so negative and doom-
mongering but I can't help imagining it being like August 2011 all over again this summer.
I also can't help ruminating on the umpteenth school massacre in the USA last week; how long before some crazed nutjob tries to do some kind of 'copycat' here in the UK or in mainland Europe?
Or it might come and go without any major mither at all....
Have you ever had any professional help for the trauma you suffered as a result of the 2011 riots, Lenco?
Or it might come and go without any major mither at all....
Especially if the media don't hype it all up out of proportion.
When that happens, it often becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and inadvertently escalates into a fully- fledged 'moral panic'!
Going back to Saturday's incident in Paris, the local authorities there were playing the 'English Disease' card once again, which is now so trite and hackneyed, and also once again smacks of England/Britain-bashing.
Let's face it, the French themselves are hardly completely civilised when it comes to footie and associated hooliganism, so a bit hypocritical IMO.
Have you ever had any professional help for the trauma you suffered as a result of the 2011 riots, Lenco?
Unfortunately there isn't an awful lot they can do, Pulisa.
Yes I know my town was unaffected, despite one 'false alarm' at our local retail park that was caused by silly gossip/disinformation on social media, which today would be referred to as 'fake news'!
spectrum123
31-05-22, 17:18
I think you're overthinking an unlikely event that you can do nothing about if it happens and is even more unlikely to affect you if it does.
Every match I've been to from internationals to what was the conference league, there is always someone or a group looking to kick off as they've hit the grog hard in the run up, it doesn't turn into a riot.
The vast majority of us including thugs and hooligans do not live our life through what the media prints. We take note of it, but our decisions are more based on the general opinions of family, friends, and work colleagues, not the media.
The world Cup is in Qatar, cost will be out of reach for many of those at the shallow end of the gene pool who tend to cause trouble at matches. I can't imagine Qatar authorities will tolerate much trouble and human rights are a little lax in the middle East those that cause trouble may find.
We lost the Euro final in 2020 at Wembley, London was not on fire afterwards.
The police have shot and killed 24 people since they despatched the scrote in 2011, we have not seen the same reaction since.
If Paris over the weekend was any example, I'd be more concerned about the police than hooligans.
Unfortunately there isn't an awful lot they can do, Pulisa.
Yes I know my town was unaffected, despite one 'false alarm' at our local retail park that was caused by silly gossip/disinformation on social media, which today would be referred to as 'fake news'!
Has a therapist told you that he/she couldn't try to treat your anxiety?
Lenco, I knew this post was from you before I even clicked on it. And it’s fine honestly, I don’t mean that in a bad way because we all have our triggers.
Like Spectrum said above, you cannot control what will happen at these events, so it is a purely kind of hypothetical worry that serves no purpose and does you not good.
There will always be get togethers where a fight breaks out or someone gets rowdy. I don’t know what your personal fear of this happening is, but it’s very very unlikely to affect you or your family.
The world is definitely a scarier, crazier place, but there are still so many brave, good and kind people, and they are the ones you could try to focus on.
I know I'm always saying this, Lenco, but I think the world might be less scary for you if you plucked up the courage to engage with it a little more.
I know I'm always saying this, Lenco, but I think the world might be less scary for you if you plucked up the courage to engage with it a little more.
I think you could be right there BI.
Obviously the world seems a lot more scary nowadays than it really is, partly because of the proliferation of 24/7 rolling news channels, social media, etc, which barely existed before the 2000s.
You don't have to engage with this proliferation though. You have a choice. I know your dad has the news on round the clock but you don't have to do as he does?
We lost the Euro final in 2020 at Wembley, London was not on fire afterwards.
The police have shot and killed 24 people since they despatched the scrote in 2011, we have not seen the same reaction since.
In truth, footie hooliganism in general has never actually gone away, but the media seem to be making out that it's making some kind of 'comeback', and are using the recent Covid pandemic as a 'scapegoat'.
I also recall back in 2008-09 when we had a couple of high-profile footie-related disturbances, notably Manchester (can't remember whether it was Man U or Man City) in May 2008, and Upton Park in August 2009, and the media in turn were quick to 'scapegoat' the Global Financial Crisis, plus we were also at the height of the moral panic about c*@v culture/feral youth, and of course all things 'Broken Britain' at that time.
Why do you need to pay so much attention to what the "media" says? Why are these sources so important to you?
If Paris over the weekend was any example, I'd be more concerned about the police than hooligans.
I agree with you there that the police certainly had a fair bit to answer for over the appalling and OTT ways they treated many of the punters there, especially by firing tear gas with the seemingly innocent law-abiding majority getting caught up in it.
Must have been pretty damn terrifying for them.
I also vaguely recall during Euro 2016, there were tales of French cops 'baiting' England fans, plus playing the trite 'English Disease' card.
All in all there seems to be a deep-rooted sense of animosity towards the British in general from the French police.
Pamplemousse
01-06-22, 17:35
The French police tend to act first and ask questions later. Mate and I suddenly found ourselves surrounded by the buggers in Paris during the Euros when some bit of trouble started.
The French police tend to act first and ask questions later. Mate and I suddenly found ourselves surrounded by the buggers in Paris during the Euros when some bit of trouble started.
I remember when we went on holiday to France in 1988 my dad was pulled over by the police just 5 minutes away from the ferry port on suspicion of drink-driving, and he said he was treated with contempt by them whilst being breathalysed and interrogated.
Although my dad was completely sober, and otherwise completely innocent, he said it was quite an intimidating and unnerving experience, especially as said plods had guns on them, which, apart from in places where the threat of terrorism is most likely (e.g, major airports, certain parts of central London, etc) are rarely ever seen here in the UK.
I know this won't help, but in my teens I spent some holiday time with a penfriend who lives in Calais. Seen from the outside, the way Brits behaved was abysmal, and I felt embarrassed and intimidated by them. I don't necessarily blame the police in those specific areas for having an attitude.
Pamplemousse
01-06-22, 21:42
I know this won't help, but in my teens I spent some holiday time with a penfriend who lives in Calais. Seen from the outside, the way Brits behaved was abysmal, and I felt embarrassed and intimidated by them. I don't necessarily blame the police in those specific areas for having an attitude.
Regrettably, I have to agree with you. When in Paris during the Euros I perfected my Gallic shrug and asked them if they spoke French because I didn't understand English.
My mate went one better - he asked the same question of British fans in Welsh! :roflmao:
As an American, I am slightly baffled by football hooliganism, I must admit. We do have sports-event related crowd violence here at times, but it's drowned out by all the other, more regular everyday violence we have.
Therefore, also as an American -- please be incredible thankful your country has sensible weapons and use of force restrictions, for citizens AND police. Ours doesn't and so for many of us everyday activities are anxiety-provoking (rationally or not!) I'm talking things like daily use of public transportation or your vehicle, grocery shopping, concerts, religious services, not to mention schools and government buildings. The sort of things it's hard to avoid.
Whereas I'd move to the UK in a heartbeat as I feel pretty confident I could avoid sports nonsense in any country I lived in!
As an American, I am slightly baffled by football hooliganism, I must admit. We do have sports-event related crowd violence here at times, but it's drowned out by all the other, more regular everyday violence we have.
Therefore, also as an American -- please be incredible thankful your country has sensible weapons and use of force restrictions, for citizens AND police. Ours doesn't and so for many of us everyday activities are anxiety-provoking (rationally or not!) I'm talking things like daily use of public transportation or your vehicle, grocery shopping, concerts, religious services, not to mention schools and government buildings. The sort of things it's hard to avoid.
Whereas I'd move to the UK in a heartbeat as I feel pretty confident I could avoid sports nonsense in any country I lived in!
Nice to know (from an American perspective) that the UK isn't the 'laughing stock of the world', as a lot of our own often gleefully make it out to be, and have been doing particularly for the past 20-odd years now!
I know this won't help, but in my teens I spent some holiday time with a penfriend who lives in Calais. Seen from the outside, the way Brits behaved was abysmal, and I felt embarrassed and intimidated by them. I don't necessarily blame the police in those specific areas for having an attitude.
Surely that was before the 2000s when all the 'Brits behaving badly abroad' stuff that started permeating our conscience largely with the advent of Reality TV, a genre which in itself now seems increasingly tired.
Like it or not (and for better or worse), 'Penfriend' now seems like an alien and outmoded concept with the advent of social media and online forums (including this).
It would've been the early 90s; day trips to the hypermarket to stock up on booze and cigarettes were very much the done thing. I went there fairly regularly with my folks.
Honestly, I still write email letters to people, and even if the medium has changed I normally prefer to communicate one on one for anything more than superficial information.
I know I keep saying this, but you really do need to meet and talk to more people, living in such a narrow world can't make you happy.
It would've been the early 90s
Yes, definitely predating the 'moral panics' that have largely been buoyed by the aforementioned 'Reality TV' stuff from the early 2000s onwards.
I know I keep saying this, but you really do need to meet and talk to more people, living in such a narrow world can't make you happy.
I really wish I could, but unfortunately my dad relies quite heavily on me for assistance in managing my mom who has severe dementia, apart from the periods between approximately 10 am and 3 pm on Tuesdays and Thursdays when I attend my day centre.
She does have carers come in on Monday, Wednesday and Friday afternoons while me and my dad do things together such as taking rubbish to the tip, visits to B&Q, etc.
I really wish I could
If you really want to get out there and meet more people then you have to make it happen.
So, from what I'm seeing, you have Mon, Wed, and Friday afternoons? Is your dad not able to go off and do his own thing for a few hours? Do you think you could tell him that you need some time to do your own thing, for like, sanity purposes?
I sympathise with your parent's issues but you need some time for you, Lenco.
Would you feel comfortable doing your own thing without your dad, Lenco? Would it be practically possible and would you feel better if you had more independence? You may just be happy to keep things as they are of course?
You may just be happy to keep things as they are of course?
I was actually thinking this, P..
All my life people have pushed me to be more social but actually I prefer my own company. I do force myself to go out once a week (on my own) because it's necessary but it is getting harder..
I'm glad you made this point. Lenco needs to work out what it is that he wants and if that's to stay as he is, then that's fine..
I used to love going to the DIY shop with my old man!
However, I will add that me forcing myself out the house once a week (on my own) is with the future in mind as family dynamics do change..
Nora, this is exactly right. It's way too easy for our worlds to narrow if we're not careful.
Every so often, I make sure to go and see a film on my own or go for a meal somewhere nice. I find it helps me keep track of who I am.
Nora, this is exactly right. It's way too easy for our worlds to narrow if we're not careful.
Every so often, I make sure to go and see a film on my own or go for a meal somewhere nice. I find it helps me keep track of who I am.
I'm always a few steps away from agoraphobia, Blue. I've had my battles with this beast in the past and I've had to work hard to overcome it. Difference is, I had shit loads of energy then (and I didn't have fibro). Nervous energy and fitness propelled me through my life until I was 40 but things changed drastically and very quickly. It's like I ran on Duracell batteries for decades, then some git swapped them for cheapies that conk out after a few hours. :huh:
Honestly, the thing that's kept me from agoraphobia is my father repeatedly implying that I had it.
I'm always a few steps away from agoraphobia, Blue. I've had my battles with this beast in the past and I've had to work hard to overcome it. Difference is, I had shit loads of energy then (and I didn't have fibro). Nervous energy and fitness propelled me through my life until I was 40 but things changed drastically and very quickly. It's like I ran on Duracell batteries for decades, then some git swapped them for cheapies that conk out after a few hours. :huh:
Oh me too. Although I had it I think when I first started getting panic attacks. I’d just about go to work and the supermarket, but that was it. Anywhere else was way too much for me & it HUGELY affected my social life to the point where I lost friends.
Oh me too. Although I had it I think when I first started getting panic attacks. I’d just about go to work and the supermarket, but that was it. Anywhere else was way too much for me & it HUGELY affected my social life to the point where I lost friends.
I have a great-aunty who had this too. She could only go as far as the garden gate then she'd have a panic attack. This was her life for decades. Poor bugger.
It was nice to see the Jubilee events in central London over the weekend passing peacefully with no reports of any major incidents, which I was partly dreading the thought of beforehand.
I know it wouldn't have been my problem had anything kicked off, but it's the thought of all the inevitable 'Britain-bashing' and 'laughing stock of the world' remarks being bandied around that I really would have found jarring.
And if any 'aggro' did happen to occur at any time, it must have been kept low-key by the media, and quite rightly so IMO.
Maybe it's best to concentrate on your world and what YOU are doing rather than worry about media stories/themes which don't affect your day to day life but which affect your MH negatively?
It was nice to see the Jubilee events in central London over the weekend passing peacefully with no reports of any major incidents, which I was partly dreading the thought of beforehand.
The only major incident for me was having to tolerate Camilla's face for four days..
Fair play to her Royal Madge, the Paddington bear in the palace sketch was pretty heart-warming and the old girl looked like she was enjoying herself, awwww.
I am torn between thinking that the Royals - with a few exceptions - are out of touch relics (not mention, nonce protectors and possible assassins) to admiring the Queen's work ethic and determination to keep reigning as long as possible to keep Charlie (who isn't going to be a popular King) off the throne..
Also, Camilla..
Spin it all ya like Buckingham Palace peeps but some of us won't ever forget her behaviour towards Diana..:lac:
As it is, I don't think there are many Royalists in our street. There was a party which turned out to be about six people sat in the road eating sausage rolls..:huh:
But yes, I'm glad there wasn't any mither because 75 years is quite the achievement..
The only major incident for me was having to tolerate Camilla's face for four days..
Fair play to her Royal Madge, the Paddington bear in the palace sketch was pretty heart-warming and the old girl looked like she was enjoying herself, awwww.
I am torn between thinking that the Royals - with a few exceptions - are out of touch relics (not mention, nonce protectors and possible assassins) to admiring the Queen's work ethic and determination to keep reigning as long as possible to keep Charlie (who isn't going to be a popular King) off the throne..
Also, Camilla..
Spin it all ya like Buckingham Palace peeps but some of us won't ever forget her behaviour towards Diana..:lac:
As it is, I don't think there are many Royalists in our street. There was a party which turned out to be about six people sat in the road eating sausage rolls..:huh:
But yes, I'm glad there wasn't any mither because 75 years is quite the achievement..
I'm generally on the fence when it comes to royalty (neither for nor against), but on the whole it was a nice event which brought many people together the country over, even those who aren't normally fanatical about the Monarchy.
Generally speaking, I think we needed a big event like this to cheer us up after the tumult of the pandemic, Brexit, etc, during the past 2-3 years, and of course it was nice that it passed peacefully without any reports of any major 'bovver'.
Also there's the Commonwealth Games thing soon to come in Birmingham, which of course for me is much closer to home, plus hopefully provide a much-needed post-pandemic boost to the West Midlands in general.
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