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Husband and son at war constantly. Only been married two and a half years, had no idea the step parent/child would be such an intense issue. Feel so let down by my husband who seems to make no attempt to reach out to my eight yr old, starting to feel ill with worry and stress, constantly prompting husband to reach out to my son, to not go on at him so much..... we struggle with my sons behaviour, I feel so sad from it all, this morning Ii told them during yet another battle that I felt like going away this weekend. I feel desperate for some peace. My husband is generally not v supportive, communication has broken down, and all he seems to worry about is my lack of sex drive.
Wish I could make myself relax as I feel so close to losing the plot. I know I won't but that horrible pent up feeling is so hard to shift. I have involved the School and an organisation for family problems, so am trying to tackle it, but feel so alone in it all.
Sorry to harp on.
dinky doo , please dont feel so alone with it all , I am in exactly the same boat as you . My son is 13 and has aspergers syndrome , my husband and son seem to be at loggerheads everyday about the smallest things, it is driving me crazy and makes me cry alot.
The doctor got us someone from the mental health team to help us but she was useless, I had a good chat to my hubby yesturday about it all , but he doesnt seem to see the whole picture like i do.It would be nice to wake up one day and have no trouble in the house at all .
I dont know what the answer is , so will watch this post with interest.
:hugs:
michellemumof4
23-11-07, 12:11
hi there ,
This is just a idea , but how about sitting your son and husband down and asking them both to write down three things they would like to see from each other and what BOTH of them are willing to offer each other .... things like respect , patience - trips to the cinema once a month ect ...
Sounds like there is a lack of communication here, I am sure your hubbie loves your son, and I am sure your son is trying very hard to see him as a father figure BUT they do need to communicate .
Once they have written down their list , let them discuss it in a freindly manner , You never know there may be some very intresting things come out in that list, People tend to be able to write things down much easier then saying them..
Above all else you make sure you take some time out for you , relax and if need be do your own list - let them see you need half hour a day to yourself too ..
Michelle xx
have you tried talking to your son to see how he feels. sorry to defend your son (and i might be wrong) but it sounds like your husband is at fault - he is the mature adult whereas your son is only a small child and so should be the one trying to understand your son;s behaviour and the way he feels in this situation. i don't know any details but i speak from the point of view that my parents divorced when i was 8 - the same age as your son. i wanted to live with my dad who i adored but had to go live with my mum and new stepdad. our house was at war for the next 8 years because i resented my stepdad and felt that the house belonged to him - it did not feel like my home. my poor mum was stuck in the middle. it was made particularly difficult by the fact that my stepdad had anger issues, my mum got pregnant very quickly, we lived in condemmed housing and were poverty stricken and i had to leave the comfortable nice home we had, the village, dad and school that i loved. is it any wonder that i "blamed" my step dad as i saw him as the cause of it all!
i understand now that he must have found it just as difficult as me but if only everyone had sat me down and explained everything and asked how i felt - it would have been so much better.
its the most unsettling thing in the world as a child to loose a parent through death/divorce and then live with someone who is not your parent and i know that the root cause of my behaviour was insecurity and fear.
an 8 year old does not have the same view of the world as an adult does - he probably feels very frightened and has lots of thoughts/issues in his head that he doesn;t even know how to express. Children - even if they seem fine - are often not. my mum says she had no idea of the angst and inner turmoil i went through between the ages of 8 and 16. i feel a lot of what went on at home during these years contributed to my anxiety as an adult.
your situation may be totally different and i apologise if i sound like i am preaching lol! but as a child of divorced parents and knowing what i went through - i do think the best way forward is to sit down with your son and reassure him and ask him to be honest with you about his feelings. i also think it may help to show your husband this post so he can understand what your son may be going through. x
Hi,
I can understand your hurt because of all this, but I agree with what Joannap has written.
When you said your husband and son are constantly at war, I was expecting to read that your son was about 18years old, not 8yrs !
To me it sounds like your little boy maybe craving for constant attention, especially from you.
He maybe feeling afraid that your new husband is taking you away from him. I understand 8yr old's can be tough, my little boy is also 8yrs and he has elements of ADHD and is being referred to a Consultant next week with suspected Aspergers.
I'm sorry to say this, but from what you have written. Why is your husband arguing with an 8yr old boy? He's still just a baby. I feel that your husband should take a step back and maybe give him more positive attention rather than constantly picking out the negative. Your poor little boy need's to be shown love and praise by him, not constant nagging.
Can your boy choose something nice to do at the weekend, like go karting or something he'll enjoy and your husband spend some positive quality time with him? Has your boy got any hobbies he like's and maybe your husband can show some interest to help bond with him?
I understand you feel so low at the moment, but you wrote in your post that you told both your child and husband you wanted time out. If you do decide to take a break, I think your little boy would love to go with you, he need's all the love he can get at the moment.
Take thing's easy and I hope thing's start to get better soon :flowers: xxx
Thankyou very much for your replies I really appreciate it. It is difficult to describe my son, he has cliched ADHD tendencies, but only at home. He is very bright, very hard working at School and angelic there also. At home he is challenging to say the least and I struggle with disciplining him, as I can see also that he is craving attention and love. I constantly praise him, catch him being good and tell him, I encourage him and always listen to him and let him know that he is loved and that I am here to listen. He tells me he hates himself, that he wishes he could be good, and that he wishes he would die, he says this out of pure frustration and anger. I encourage all my kids to talk, to recognise their feelings etc, and I am always trying new reward ands consequence techniques, but I am often short on patience with him especially cause I try all the right things and he still misbehaves, it is a constant struggle and often with continual attention seeking behaviour. I do so much with my children, I take them out alot for days out, I go to craft activities with them, I like getting them out and about in the nice weather. I am quite protective, and he has only been allowed out to the local park alone very recently and for very short time periods only.
I feel I have nothing left to give. Hence feeling like escaping for the weekend, something I have never done before. My husband is very childlike at times, and will pick at my son for no reason sometimes, and will just glare at him at times, or not focus if my son is trying to reach out to him. I thought I had found my happy ever after in my husband, I feel so let down that this has happened, and that despite my attempts, nothing is improving. My son is uneasy about his stepdad being here, but is that cause he has, as he has told me, this fantasy that he will get back together with HIS Dad. Which I would not. His Dad moved out when I was eight months pregnant with his sister. I then met husband when she was six months old. So my son has coped with many changes, I can understand why he is unsettled, but I am desperate to be close to him. I have tried talking to my husband, I have suggested they go out together at weekends, something which has only happened twice, and I encourage them to read together etc. Last night at tea time there was ructions, there were further ructions a bath time and then again this morning, so it feels like a never ending battle.
The sitting down and talking thing was a great suggestion and one we have tried, but that is not to say it will not be worth enough another try.
We had a family counsellor round but without success really thought he was a waste of time.
The 'treating' him to activities etc is something i have done, but he quickly loses interest in things, like the swimming club I booked him into
Thanks though guys, I am seriously feeling bogged down by all this. I want to help my son but he is infuriating at times, and ideally I want to be happily married, but I find it impossible to love someone who is giving my son such a hard time.
Hi,
Have you been to your GP and asked for a referral to a Paedratition or even Family Counselling could help.
It's a shame your husband can't be more supportive.
Does your son prefer academics rather than sports hobbies?
I have just signed my boy in Piano lesson's, because he too is quite bright and I thought that the music would be therapeutic to him, he also loves to figure things out and so love's to learn how to read the music too (maybe your son might like the same).
I hope that your husband can soon be more understanding.
He has a great loving mum !!
Good luck and take care of yourself xx
Thankyou Katie. I appreciate you saying that, as I am constantly worrying that I am not doing a good enough job. My childhood was mostly spent being afraid of my Dad, he was very bullying and controlling toward my Mum, and ruled us all by fear. I have had terrible problems with low self esteem and have had a succession of failed volatile relationships.... I am so frightened that my son will end up the same as me.
Its all going round and round in my head and I wish I could find some answers. The Health Visitor was the one who referred us to the home family Counsellor, but they never even spent any time with my son, which I felt was a great shame, and they spoke alot about strategies that we had already tried.
I feel like I do not have enough energy in me to keep on battling, with my own self, with my childs behaviour and with my husbands childish ways.
Sorry to be so blunt about it, but this is a long ongoing issue that leaves me frustrated and deflated. And husband, he seems to care more about the lack of sex in our relationship than anything else!!!!! Gggggrrrrrr.
Anyone else in a similar scenario? Step parent/child? Am still up for some advice..........
Dreading Xmas, would rather escape elsewhere.
Hi,
Sorry to hear that you are having such a ruff go of it. I am having problems too.
However my problems aren't the step child , it's our own son. He is 15 and thinks he knows everything. Anything we ask, we get a smart remark, or he just isn't home to help out.
This is hard because my husband drives truck an is gone for two weeks at a time.So things tend to mount up and when he is home all hell flies most of the time.
I myself have a step mom, and things have always been ruff there also. Her kids took the front lines so to speak. This has caused a number of problems in our family, now we hardly see each other or talk. Maybe send Christmas cards but thats about it.
I wish I could help you, but know that you aren't alone here.
Hi Dinkydoo, I can totally relate to what you are saying.Ive been with my hubby for 7 years,married for 3.I have 2 boys 16 and 14 and a 23 year old daughter who now lives with her boyfriend. It is hell in our house sometimes. My boys argue over stupid things.I can handle that but I cant handle when my 16 yr old and my hubby get into discussions which then turn into arguments.My biggest fear is that it may turn into a physical fight in which case would definitely be the end of my marriage.Like you I want to be happily married but the tensions in the home spoil it.I feel torn apart at times.Ive spoken to my hubby about it alone and also to my boys.They all insist they like each other but annoy each other.I tell them there are enough bad things happening on the outside and that home should be a happy relaxed place to be.
Your boy is only 8 though which makes a big difference.I really dont know the answer but I do think the step parent should make a BIG effort to bond with the kids cos afterall when they take us on they take our kids on too.We come as a package.I know when my hubby says something I dont like to one of my boys it hurts me.Step families are hard and need total commitment for it to work.You sound totally commited and I am too. Do you feel you've aquired another child since you got married? I know I do sometimes lol.
I hope things improve for you.You can pm me if you want to talk.
julie x:)
Thanks Julie, only just seen your message. Yes i do feel like I have aqcuired another child, definately!!!
It is all very hard, I have been looking at alternative housing, something i do not relish but I feel so desperate.
My son is being so demanding, he is not destructive or hugely aggressive, but shouts, screams, tantrums, puts his fists up, feels angry, sad, hates himself, but his behaviour drives me insane.
This morning I snapped and told him I was going to end up ill if he did not buck his ideas up, yesterday I told him I would look into boarding Schools for him. WHat kind of a bitch mother am I??!! This morning we both went into School crying, I was inconsolable when the teacher approached me, she had to take my son straight from his class where he was crying too. I feel like putting a gun to my head and making it all stop. I wouldnt of course, but I feel I am failing my son badly, I am a decent person, I teach them about the importance of love, of being aware of how lucky we are, how others have to live and go without etc I try to instill them with morals and self esteem. BUT I am struggling with my son who is a angel at School!!!!!! And my husband is in complete denial about things, altho he slapped my son across the face just at the weekend. Would you all tolerate that? Am I bein unreasonable? I feel in such a state. I would like to leave but all the practicalities of that,plus it being so near Xmas is difficult.... I know that if it were just my husband and I we would prob be close and have a good marriage, but thats not reality, and my son has to be my priority.
What a terrible thing to do to my son. Those things I said. I feel so ashamed and so desperate.
After my horrific outburst my chest is aching,on the left side and I feel so wound up, mainly out of shame. Worried one day I am just going to have a heart attack cause of all the stress, so this is no good for me and my neurotic obsession with my health.
Some of my friends and family know about this, but alot of people do not know and I make out all is well and ok, I have just text my mother in law to be honest about the scenario... none of his family have reached out to us, not even one text to say sorry you are having a hard time... nothing, no response when I messaged his sis in law sharing how difficult things are. Feel resentful about that too, but he defends them. GGgrrr, sorry to go on!!
Hi Dinkydoo, Sorry things are still so bad for you.
I too have said things to my boys that I've felt guilty/ashamed about.I think we say these things out of sheer desperation when we cant take anymore.At the moment you need some tlc and reassurance that everything will turn out ok.Could you talk to your husband when things are calm? I spoke to mine a week or so ago and told him that we should only get on at the kids when its over something important and not to pick on stupid things like not putting their coats away etc.
As for your husband slapping your son, I'm sorry but I wouldnt put up with that.That is one of my fears,that my hubby may one day hit one of my lads.I've already told him that if it ever happens then we are through.
It is really hard when you love your kids and your man and they dont get along and I dont know the answer,I just know that I try to make a happy home and wish they would too.
You are a good mom,you're trying your best,you love your son very much or you wouldnt be worrying about him.Yes youve said some things which you feel guilty about,but you are only human,you can apologise to your son and explain why you said what you said.Forgive yourself,you are a good mom.
julie x:hugs: :hugs: :hugs: Have a virtual hug from me.
Thankyou Julie,I really appreciate you taking the time to write back. I do feel so sad at the moment. It feels like a constant struggle. I do worry incessantly about my kids, and worry about my sons confidence, but what good am I doing him? None, it feels like. I always praise him even for the smallest thing, I rarely let him go to bed without teling him how much I love him.
The slap on the face does feel like the last straw. He says it feels bruised. I can see how my husband snapped, he was being pushed to the limit, but I cannot excuse it or condone it. We have not really discussed it. I can see how anyone could struggle with my sons behaviour, but I need someone to love him, nurture him and praise him too. Feel so sad that I married someone who clearly is not the right one to do that.
Feel too like my husbands family are not bothered by all this, not that he talks to them really about the probs but he has shared it a bit and I have text them all letting them know whats going on, they do not live that far away, I have been so depressed by all this, but no one has visited, no one has phoned and not even text apart from his sis in law who seems very supportive. Am not going over there for Xmas cause I do not need this people do I, they are clearly not bothered about me or my family.
Meant to say, ' need these people''............ have made efforts to go over in the past but I rarely feel comfortable there, they have never really tried to get to know me as a person... feel like all my barriers are up and I dont want to exhaust myself making the effort anymore. Am I being unreasonable?
Hi Dinkydoo,
Welcome to NMP.
I have a step-son but no problems with him.You seem to be taking very positive steps to resolve things.Please persevere.
Best wishes,
Chalky
Thanks for your message Chalky.... do feel like I am losing a battle with this one, and losing my marriage too.
Hi there..
I could have written that myself. I have a 9 year old son and my husband with who i have been married to for 4 year treats my boy quite harshly. He doesn't smack and NEVER would dare, but he moans a lot, most of the time and it completely drives me insane. At times i feel like its a constant war and i as a mother of course i am going to defend my son because the reasons why my husband is moaning is usually pathetic so when my son does do something wrong and he gets the same kind of treatment, its confusing.
I think you have to look at it this way. Is it effecting your son and if it is you HAVE to do what is best FOR HIM. I could not forgive myself if when my boy gets older all he remembers from his childhood is moaning, arguments and living in a horrible atmosphere.
x
Sorry to hear you are going through the same. It is so hard to weigh it all up. My sons behaviour is def worse when my husband is around, if he is working away I seem to gain some control and he calms a bit,altho he has always been a demanding child. It is hard work being on your own with children, but what is the alternative, like you say, to live in an atmos where you are moaned at all the time. My childhood was lived in fear of my Dad, he was very moody and controlling and I do not want my son to grow up underconfident like I have. I feel that no one wants to support us on his side, be it his friends or his family, his friends were not supportyive from the onset that he was dating a mother of two....... it feels like I have battled to be accepted by all of his side, only to keep facing battles with his behaviour towards my son.
Am I being unreasonable? If your husband had slapped your son what would you do??? He did it after being pushed to the limit, he is not a violent person, he is normally placid, but he gets frustrated, impatient, and forgets his size, strength etc.... he is not a bad person, he genuinely struggles with my son, but he does not do alot to try to bond with him either.
I was also brought up in a VERY controlling situation, but it was my step-father that was doing the controlling. He would moan at the slightest thing that my sister and i would do. I DO NOT want my son to go through the same. I look back on my childhood with not too many good memories. I recall the rows and the slamming of doors and history is definitely repeating itself.
IF my husband were to lay a single finger on my son, he would be out the door quicker than he came in. I DO NOT hit my son so i would not accept my husband doing it. There would be absolutely NO circumstance that i could say, yes, that was okay to do. He is an ADULT, your son is a child. I just don't agree with inflicting pain on children. Punishing is a better way around. I discipline my son by not letting him watch TV or playing his play station, that hurts him more than a smack. I see it like this. As a parent, whether your the biological or taken the roll as one, if your child comes in and they've hurt themselves and they are crying, you feel terrible for them and you want to take the pain away. WHY would any parent want to be the cause of said pain????
(I'm sorry, there are very few things i am passionate about, but smacking happens to be one of them)
I was smacked as a child and my step father also beat me quite bad once. I'd never put my son through that same sh*t. I asked my mother the other day why she stayed with my step-father, her reason, "I had no where to go". I would rather be on the streets that see my son smacked by his step-dad.
By your son's behaviour being a little better when your husband isn't there should speak volumes to you.
It must be hard for you with no support - if you want a chat, feel free to PM me.
x
Thankyou Bluebell. My Mum is quite supportive tho she stayed with my Dad as she said he could not help being the way he was, he used to get depressed etc... she thinks men need more support than women and that I should be more understanding of my husband... I admit he is in a difficult scenario the min he decides to take on a woman and two little ones, but he has to want to change things for the better surely.
His side are not supportive. My friends are all being very good but I think cause I am not that confident I find it hard to make decisions, I analyse everything a million times and question what effect it will have on x y and z, how will x y and z feel, what will others think of me, should I be trying harder etc etc..... sorry to go on I expect many of you are bored of my posts on this subject. Feeling rough today so hubby got to do school run, waiting to see what its all like on their return.
Thanks for the support. xxx
Not sure where to turn so sorry but I have come back here. I have decided to separate from my husband. We are going to parenting classes at the moment, and my son is now having some counselling, but I feel our marriage is over. We have not had a physical relationship for a ridiculous amount of time and our communication is virtually null.
I told him of my decision and he seems ok with that, talking about his future etc, but refusing to discuss the current situation. We have a house, tho his name is on the deeds not mine, we are in debt, tho not hideously, we have not lived here long so wont make much profit when we sell, thou he is not keen to sell. He seems stuck with his head in the sand. I have been looking for places to rent nearer the kids school here in Wilts, but I have now started researching living in Devon, in Torquay and have emailed various people, thou I am comletely ignorant about what to do first, where to turn etc, I have always lived in this Town all my life.
Friends are split as to what I should do, some inc my family say I should stick it out with hubby, others are encouraging me to leave, and for my sons sake I think I should. My sons real Dad is not particularly stable in his life but my son worships him. For ex this Hol he had them for an hour, no more, yet they have all been ill with chest infec and i feel worn out, he phones yest to say he will take them to the London Eye at the weekend, I feel resentful of how impressed,excited the kids are, well, my son, cause I feel I have donenothing exctiting with them as they were ill. I said to my ex that I did not want them to go Sun as they would be tired for school next day but I just got a lot of verbal on the phone for sticking my nose in. I feel so lonely and I feel so in need of pleasing myself for a change.
What should I do? I would really appreciate some advice. Would moving to Devon be unrealistic, I would need to temp be on benefits.
I want to get out of the town I feel suffocated by, everyone knows everyones business, and i wish I could leave the men in my life far away so that I can build myself and my childrens esteem up.
Hi, please try this, get a piece of paper, put a cirle in the middle and draw lines outwards, at the end of each line write down an area of you life whether good or bad, i.e husband, son, my health, family, work, you will find there will be loads of lines by the end of it.
Then look at each one and write underneath what you can do to improve this situation and what you can't do e.g hubby, you can get marriage counselling, but you cannot change your husband, also look at thing that you can delegate to others.
But you must remember to write down all the good bits too !! e.g days out with the children and how well they are doing at school or hobbies, good times you have with your hubby.
It is not a negative graph. Then you can take some time to look at each thing individualy.
I was in a rut in November last year and everything just seemed to be too much to handle, I also have an x and 3 children and a bf now who can be great but also very selfish and nasty.
I drew a graph and things became clearer, it didn't seem like one big mess anymore but just lots of areas that needed looking at.
I also felt stronger for doing it, and more in control.
Hope this helps.
Take care Christine xx :flowers:
Thankyou Christine, I will certainly try that. Wish I felt braver. I do not even know how to move for goodness sake, I have never pushed myself out of comfort zones before. Plus moving as a single parent is not going to be easy.
Dear dinkydoo,
I have only just finished reading your entire thread, which you started last year. I wish I had seen it earlier. I am sorry if this is a rather long response, but I am very passionate about the things you mention, as I used to be in exactly the same position myself years ago.
Because my response has ended up rather long, I am going to post it on two separate pages.
Firstly - SEX! Don't worry yourself about your husband complaining about not having sex. Real, loving compassionate men will love you even without getting any sex. If he makes you feel guilty every time you don't have sex with him, as far as I'm concerned he's not worth a piece of S%#t! The guilt trip that some husbands use when they don’t get sex, is another form of emotional abuse. You end up feeling guilty all night thinking. . . ‘why don’t I want to have sex’, ‘there must be something wrong with me’, etc. While he just goes, relives himself, crashes out and starts snoring, while you end up laying awake half the night worrying ‘what’s wrong with me’.
Second: You mentioned about your husband taking on a woman with two kids, and that it must be very hard on him. You listen to me ok. When you met your husband, you already had your children; you didn’t just spring them onto him on your wedding night. You all came as a package deal. When he met you and you both fell in love, he knew you had the children.
If he didn’t want a woman with children and all the responsibilities that come with that, he should never have married you in the first place. Never, ever allow a man to make you choose between him and your kids. Because, once a woman has children of her own, those kids will always come first. Sadly, many men cannot handle that.
NOW… This is why I believe your son and husband are continually fighting. You have what is known as ‘dominant male syndrome’. Your husband and son are both fighting for the position of ‘top dog’ in your home and for the dominance and control over your love and affections.
This is usually caused when two males who have previously belonged within other ‘packs’, and now due to circumstances (your marriage), have found themselves thrown together into a new unfamiliar ‘pack’ that sadly has only one dominant female but two ‘dominant males.
I understand your son is only 8 years old and your husband is much older, but age has nothing to do with it. Neither of them understands that you are capable of loving both of them equally.
Cont….. soon….
cont....
Your husband continually picks on your son in the hope that he will misbehave, he tries at every opportunity, to bait, demean and control him, knowing your son will misbehave, scream, throw tantrums and eventually upset you with his uncontrollable behavior.
Your husbands not stupid, he knows, the more your son misbehaves and causes problems at home, the more you will become disappointed with him. Thus making you love him more.
He knows how much you love your son, but in his mind, you should be loving him more. As far as your husband is concerned, your son is just a naughty sniveling brat, that is always getting in the way and receiving more of your love and attention, which he believes should be his.
Plus this little pain in the ass, whom you always seem to stick up for, is continually keeping you away from loving him.
Then finally, when he does get you all to himself, you don’t want sex. So then he blames your son once again, and when he sees him the next morning the first thing he thinks to himself is, you little brat I didn’t get sex again because of you.
If he only realized that by becoming your son’s friend, and spending some loving happy times with him, not only would your son feel more secure knowing this man isn’t trying to steal his mum, but he only wants to be his friend.
This sort of peaceful interaction between the two men in your life would make you happy and relaxed and God forbid. The next thing you will be doing is trying to hump your loving husband at every opportunity.
Your son is only misbehaving and throwing hissy fits because at his young age, this is the only way he knows how to get your attention.
Your son also knows if he continues acting up and causing problems with your husband, that you and your husband end up arguing and fighting. Therefore, his bad behavior actually intensifies more when he sees the two of you arguing about it.
He is secretly hoping that eventually you will leave this ‘intruder’ that is attempting to steal his mum and her love away from him.
Finally: No one, and I mean No one, ever EVER, hits anyone smaller than themselves. If he or anyone ever raises a hand to either of your children, you tell that person, loudly and firmly that this is assault and, you are well within your rights to call the police and have them charged.
Grown men who hit children, are very weak and extremely uneducated men as far as I am concerned. If they cannot think of an intelligent non violent method of punishment, they shouldn’t even attempt trying to discipline a child at all.
Ok that’s my opinion, if you think you can salvage anything out of your marriage and give it another chance, I support you all the way and wish you the best of luck.
If you have finally made the decision that its past saving, I’ll give you a hint, it’s actually not to bad being a single mum.
But, I’ll leave that for another day.
Sarajane
Wow, thankyou most sincerely for taking all that time to write that to me, I really appreciate it and you have given me real food for thought, thankyou again.
I think single life is going to be the best option, just so difficult I feel practically to make that happen.
Feels like a big hurdle.
Will get there in the end. Feel pulled in many different directions.
Thanks again DinkyDoo
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