View Full Version : This Damned Meds Trap!!!!!!!!!!
Three weeks off the Duloxetine and I am feeling rough. I have tension in my body and a gripping in my throat, I have a feeling like someone is standing on my chest. I HATE IT SO MUCH!!!!! I am weepy and I am losing interest and motivation. I am tired and I am weak.
Now I am an old hand at this because I know all about the demon withdrawal... oooh sorry "Discontinuation Syndrome" - mustn't call it withdrawal any more, of course Seroxat was the worst withdrawal ever - as I know I keep harping on about but I'm fed up with it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The medication would have been washed out of my body now every last residue I would imagine, (drunk enough cups of tea so I reckon it's out) - however, as my trusty CPN told me; it's all to do with the brain not getting the reuptake of the serotonim or whatever these meds do with the seratonim. The fact that it's out of my body means nothing, the fact is that the brain is still wondering why there is no reuptake of the seratonim..... and it don't like it at all!!! It's allso wondering where the reuptake of noradreneline is as well - so my poor brain doesn't know what's going on. Oh god!!!!!! This is the reason why you feel unwell weeks after stopping your med.
Every time I try to come off medication I go into this bloody mode of crying at the drop of a hat and feeling of doom. I just can't bear it. It's coming and going in waves of severity and then calming down at the moment.
Three years of trying meds which haven't worked well. One year on Duloxetine which did not do the job it claimed it could!!!!!! Is it me??? The meds did stop working for me for sure.
To be kept on Duloxetine for a whole year when I kept repeating that it wasn't working as it should (I do know when a med works well) --- is completely ridiculous. But worse than that, to then come off the med that did precisely nought and to feel crap withdrawal is something else.
This meds trap is happening all over the world to loads of people. They want to come off their meds, they come off them - go into bad withdrawal and are FORCED to start another med.
You start another med, you have to suffer the side effects for about 2/3 weeks - med doesn't kick in for about 6/8 weeks and then you are off again on this trail of hopeful anticipation of this "new" med working.
I have promised myself that I will do this. I said I would come off the meds no matter how I felt. In reality though, it's hard. More, much more needs to be publicised about "Discontinuation Syndrome" - this "Syndrome" is far worse than the original illness - this one is the demon that wags its finger at you telling you that "You shouldn't h ave gone on that crap". So sorry for the language but I think you will be guaging my mood by now.
The pharmaceutical companies, the likes of Glaxo Smith Kline and Eli Lilly and all the others MUST warn of this "different illness" one will suffer upon discontinuation of their magic medicines. They won't do that though because if they did no one would ever take them again. It's as simple as that.
Sorry for the rant.
I intend to give this 8 weeks and if I am still feeling as bad as I am now it'll be back on the old meds treadmill and trying another magic tablet.
Love to allxx
Hello Yvonne,
This is just a thought but I'm wondering if what you're experiencing isn't withdrawal but rather a subconscious psychological reaction.
You've been on meds quite a long time and maybe your subconscious is telling you that you're no longer taking them and so making your body react which in turn makes you think it must be reacting through withdrawal....if that makes sense.
I'm thinking this because you say about this choking feeling as if someone is standing on your chest which is normally an anxiety symptom "alone" which may not be a symptom of withdrawal. When I experienced withdrawal symptoms, I felt shakey and aggitated.
If I'm right, you may need to focus on finding a relaxation method that works for you such as deep breathing, meditation or even yoga!
I just have a feeling there's more to this than withdrawal but that you Can learn to cope without meds. I think it maybe just a case of learning how when you start feeling like this.
Ask your cpn if what I'm thinking makes any sense. It's just a thought.:shrug:
I do agree with you about the long term problems meds can create though.
hi i am coming off my meds and im realy dreding it incase i have withdrawel symtoms and go back to how i was .my doc is taking me off citalopram in the new year and im already thinking to myself how on earth am i going feel coming off them .hope your ok tc elaine xx
Ladygrom
Do not for one moment let my post scare you. You may not get anything like this, lots of people come off their meds very successfully and are completely fine.
It's not psychological though Bill, my mind is not telling me that I have come off meds and that's why I feel like this. What my mind is telling me is that I have come off meds after soooo many years and I have actually done a marvellous thing!!!
They are symptoms of anxiety yes, the heaviness on the chest etc I won't deny that. This of course may be my anxiety being a bit worse for not having the medication running around my brain.
I do relaxation Bill, I have no trouble relaxing - give me a relaxation cd (and I have many and various)- and I will fall asleep. I don't have an anxiety problem where I can't relax.
The medication has been washed out of my body for sure - I know that because I am no longer getting the electric shock sensations in my head and I am not nauseous and don't have a constant headache .. which I did for the first couple of weeks after stopping the med.
Discontinuation syndrome as it's now called is very real and people are not aware of it. People think it's a return of the original illness when they come off medication - trouble is how you feel when you have discontinued a medication is usually far worse than your original problem.
I have extensively studied this subject and I have had it confirmed by my cpn that when you stop medication having been on it for a long while the fact that the brain is not getting the amount of seratonim that it's used to will affect you.
Bill, if you give someone a bottle of wine each night for a year then you suddenly stop it then there would be some reaction - the person may crave the alcohol and may get some kind of withdrawal. With these medications we don't crave the medication but our brain is so used to the mechanism the med was creating that it has to react. It's so well documented now.
My cpn would agree with you Bill - reason; she is completely convinced that this illness is only caused by thoughts. She is cbt mad!!!! Lol.
good rant Yvonne about the meds go round and well done for surviving thewithdrawals. You are so right about everytime hoping the next pill will be the magic one and suffer from disappointment when you realise its no better than the last one.
At least by coming off, you may be able to see the woods for the trees as it were and give your body a med holiday at the same time while you work out what do to next.
joy
Joy
wise words. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hello Yvonne,
Yes, I can understand that and I can see what you're saying.
Do you think you've come off Too quickly and not given your body enough time to adjust? I can remember when I took diazepam that it took me 6 months to come off them completely but I'd only been taking them for 3 years. What you're saying almost sounds like your body is in shock because it's struggling to cope without. Almost like stopping an addiction.
Do you think it would be easier to take a small dose of something and very very gradually wean yourself off it so it doesn't make you feel so ill by giving your body more time to adjust? Just reduce as you feel comfortable with?
I know if I just stop my diazepam my anxiety would have been uncontrollable.
I admire your strength and courage but I wonder if you're trying to do things too quickly? :shrug: What do you think?
Hi Bill
Thanks for messaging. Sometimes when people don't say anything it's horrible. I know I can always rely on you though.
Bill, what would you suggest I take in a small dosage? Do you mean another a.d.? I don't think I could bear that mate - just couldn't go through the side effects - they usually get me for two weeks then you normally have to wait 6/8 weeks for the thing to actually kick in. I feel I have come this far and I feel I have to see it through.
I did speak to my cpn today and I asked her if I should take a little diazepam. I was given a few tablets from my stroppy gp of 2mg. She reluctantly handed those over as if I'm some kind of a diaz junkie and yet I have never had benzos. She said I can take 1mg to take the edg off the anx. She says that it's the anx I'm feeling that makes me get a bit teary and it's no problem at all to feel like that and that I must let the tears out.
Bill, I didn't know you were still on the diazepam. Or did you mean before?
I think you are right about my body being in shock. We'll see how I go and hopefully I'll get through all this.
Hope you are well.
I took Seroxat for 8 years altogether and the last 3 I was getting off it. I was taking 30mg, then one day 20mg one 30mg, then 20mg for a a few months, then 20mg one day and 15mg another. Eventually I was on 10 a day, and then 10 every other day for a few good months. When I finally stopped I felt nothing. I was also anxiety and OCD free for a year after that, really amazing.. I have relapsed though unfortunately, and this time around Seroxat is not a magic pill anymore. I think if I could do it over again I would stay on the 10mg a day for the rest of my life. Now that I feel so bad again, I would do anything to get back to feeling good. Maybe this time around need to do it med free, don't know yet, it's just been 2 weeks back on Seroxat, but I can't tolerate more than 5mg because I get migraines.
If you go really slooooooooooooow then the withdrawal is minimal if at all.
OR at least it's just my experience :-)
Sorry Yvonne, I overlooked your post because of my fall etc.
No, I don't take any meds anymore. I did try most of them in the past but I cope ok without.
Confidence has a large part to play. After my fall I found my confidence had been knocked and worrying thoughts troubled me more. Now though I'm beginning to feel more like myself and am coping better.
I think in the past I would have been very tempted to go on a med but I won't go back down that route.
The holidays and at this time of year, can have a bad effect on us because we like routine and things to occupy our minds. For the same reason I hate Sundays because they're too quiet.
I think the worst combination is being bored And being on our own because our minds will look for something to think which will often be something to worry about and then the symptoms become worse!
It's definitely possible to learn to cope without medication but it does take time, learning how to cope and patience.:hugs:
Sara, I think something that helped me with OCD was to move quickly from one thing to the next so I avoided time to dwell and think. Keeping my mind occupied with what I had to do next. Seroxat really made me feel ill so I had to stop taking it. I cope ok these days without it though.:hugs:
Hey Bill
You are so lucky to have recovered without meds! That's wonderful.
I think I will have to do it this way now too, although the thoughts are just too much for me and even though Seroxat is not working as well as before it does take the edge of things. I've signed up for CBT.
I spent years in psychoanalytic psychotherapy and other more analytic forms of healing and can say definately that going into your past and problems is interesting but not so practically useful. I wouldn't waste my money on it any more unless I had lot's of it. EFT is what helped me recover the first time and I'm hoping that acceptance, and CBT will be helpfull too.
:yesyes: Well done
S.x
Reading this reinforces to me why I could never be brave enough to take the medication in the first place. I was told once I will never get better unless I take anti depressants, well, sorry but I am gonna do everything and anything I can to avoid it cause it scares the hell out of me!!!!
By the way, well done for coming off the meds, you are to be congratulated, good luck with your recovery. xxxxx
Hi All,
Meds CAN be a help to the suffering individual.I do not believe they are the answer to all our problems.Working at ourselves to develop coping strategies in the long term is the answer for me.
I used Meds for years and was glad of them at that time.I have been Med free for 19 months.
Best wishes,
Chalky
Dinkydoo
Thanks for that - it has been hard - and still is actually, nearly 6 weeks down the line. I feel much better in the way that I'm not lethargic and dopey all the time and actually I don't think my panics are any worse than they were on Duloxetine.
If people can stay off meds then I personally do think it's the way to go - try everything before you go on meds I say. What Bill says is so right about being alone and going into your thoughts - the mind seeks out anxious and depressing thoughts with this illness. Years of suffering probably cause that. I DO think it's a meds trap and I hear of lots of people who are maybe not as well informed on this subject - only yesterday I was talking to an old friend who told me that a friend of hers is on meds and each time she comes off the "illness" comes back. Well, hey what's the use of taking the med then in the first place? My gut feeling is that it isn't the return of the original illness and I think that comes out loud and clear in my messages.
When depression gets to a stage where you can't eat and you have no interest whatsoever in life and you have even lower thoughts (won't say the word) ----- then it is time for a med definitely. With anxiety as well, there are levels of anxiety. If you are anxious all day long and it is literally torturing you then of course you have to try to help yourself with medication - who would suffer such great pain.
Sara - I am so glad the 10mg Seroxat is helping you a bit - even if it takes the edge off that's something. If I thought Seroxat would work for me again I would consider taking it but I really cannot risk it.
Bill, so many wise words from you - you know this illness inside out and you know how to treat it. I think you have had years of suffering - although I haven't read any of your old posts. I think you have been an incredibly strong man and you are now reaping the rewards.
Take care all.
Anxiety can feel as if it's suddenly pounced on us but I feel that unless there has been a specific traumatic event, our anxieties build over a long period of time until one day it feels we can't take anymore.
I could say my anxiety started in October 1995 but in reality that is the month that things got too much to cope with.
I'll always remember how on a Saturday night I got up to do the washing up, stared into the bowl and felt myself falling into a black hole. it frightened me so much that I just walked out the room and laid on the bed. I didn't know what was happening to me.
I went to see the doctor who put me on diazepam (valium) and left me on them for 3 years until I decided I wanted to come off them because I'd found out how addictive they were and I didn't want that to happen to me. It still took me 6 months to come off them though. They then tried all the different ad's which I found lifted my mood for a short period of time but the symptoms continued. After they'd run out of alternatives, they gave me ECT (Electro Convulsive Treatment) which is really used for depression but that's what they thought I suffered from.
During this period I became so low that I self harmed, had suicidal thoughts and took od's. I also suffered panic attacks and became anxious about going out. I guess to them I had all the symptoms of depression.
What I really felt was trapped. I couldn't see a way out of the way I felt inside.
The reason I'm saying this is because I feel that often we reach a point where we can't take anymore and at that time we need medication to lift our mood while we find ways to ease the pressures that have created our anxieties.
Sometimes though the help we need isn't available so we are left on medication. However, some people find that they need their medication to live a better a life and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. We all have the same goal and there's more than one way to cope. It comes down to personal choice but as long as the choice we use enables us to live a better life, that's all that matters.
Ideally I feel medication for anxiety should be used to aid a person towards recovery rather than being used long term to prop them up but I realise some people wouldn't want to be without their medication and I wouldn't argue with that because they've found their way in coping.
Personally I wouldn't want to go back down that route because of the long term complications they can cause but I do feel they serve a purpose when we need something to get out of a pit.
All I know is that if a person would prefer to cope without medication in the long term and they feel ready to attempt it, then it Is most definitely possible because I know of too many success stories and I'm no different from everyone else on here.:hugs:
Hey Yvonne, :hugs:
How's things going now?
I know this time of year makes us all more vulnerable. I hope you managed a good Christmas.
Jim :hugs:
Hi Jim
I managed Cmas day very well. My mood is low but not dire. My anxiety has been very low which is marvellous. The other day we were at a shopping village and I wandered off alone a lot on my own and I felt normal. I have to say that my panics are no worse than they were when I was on the Duloxetine so I know the medication was not helping at all on that score.
However, I do have this low mood on as I say - sometimes, like this morning when in a supermarket - I only need one little flicker of panic (like a churn of the tummy) and it brings on this horrible defeated feeling and I then get the lump in my throat and I think oh god almighty I'm getting this crying sort of feeling come over me. I think that feeeling is where I am disappointed with myself for not being 100%. That's ridiculous of course because I am definitely not going to feel 100% - it just won't happen like that.
Off the meds I am much better in that I am not a dopey wreck all day long - I sleep so much better at night, lots of other little minor things I've noticed.
I am worrying a lot about my mood dips, I dread to slip into an awful depression. I think my past memory of my withdrawal from Seroxat is still fresh in my mind and I think I am worrying that I may go back to how I was then. I can't actually see this happening though because I really don't feel that bad.
You okay Jim?
Bill, I had no idea that you had been through so much - I was shocked to read how bad you have been.
I also didn't realise that you had tried a lot of meds in the past. You have come through something of a nightmare to say the least, and you have come through the other side.
I will continue on this journey of no meds for as long as I can - each day is another day off meds which I thought I could never do - so that must be good. I will know when I am at the stage that I literally HAVE to take medication, but at the moment, I am not at that stage.
Love to all,.
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