saying goodbye to what you love most

[joelhall]

it seems tha ive finally lost hthe battle to see neil ever again:weep:

the last few days ive been quite il and this has indeed made everything far worse..
... but nothing can compare to the pain im feeling now. seems im not cut out to be father so im told, also that id see them again over anges dead body, as well as alot more stuff being said. as you can understand i cant fight againt this anymore, its a no-win situation:weep:

six months ago was the last i saw of neil and william. everyday ive contantly tried to tel myself that this wont last forever that ill see them again.

its now dawning on me that im living in denial.

when neil was born i remember how scared i felt by it all. i also remember worying that id never live up to his expectations, and how this little tiny person was the most perfect things ever (although i couldnt say it out loud).

ive waited over a year for treatment and theres no sign of it happenin anytime soon. in the meantime even though im only 25 ive watched my entire life fall apart. one thing after another all the time for this long makes you lose all faith you ever had. ive seen people who care about me (apparently) leave me to it, ive lost my job my kids my house. everyday is more and more of a struggle. only god thing is my panic atacks have stopped. but something else has filled this void. i now have just a total lack of self worth. ive been looking at the sleeping pills wondering how painful it would be to just swallow the lot and then slip into an eternal sleep.:weep:

when i was younger i always for some reason wanted to be the guy with a good job his own house and family, etc. and what i had i lost and there are no words i can use to explain the misery its brought to my life.
i feel like running away and trying to start over yet i know its too late for that now:weep:

everyday i think of neil and how much ive let him down and what the future holds for him. i never see myself in that future though. i know ill never be allowed to have any part in it.

so even though it goes against very grain in my body im gonna be another one of those blokes who knocked up some girl and doesnt pay child support, completely against my will. and ive found out im not alone in this which makes me incredibly angry.

but then what more is there to do?

for me this is an easy option - im going out tomorow im just gonna move on and try to forget and bury all this pain. one way or another everything in life has to come to an end. and id rather be in control of things in my life than leaving them to chance or someone else.

seems everyone has always made decisions affecting me in which i have no say. but then one of my problems has always been that i dont trust people - as it turns out ive been right not to i reckon. yeah you can all say thats a sad ay to live life. maybe but at least thee wont be any nasty surprises for me this way.

well i guess i should just say goodbye to neil. feels funny cos we dont even know each other but i really want the little guy to have the most wonderful life he can. not waste it like i have. after everything that happened and trying so much for him ive finally lost the battle. and the more fighting i do the more hes stuck in the middle.

guess all the feminists were right - kids dont need dads. (course they whinge as soon as the dad goes anyway.) so its back to starting over, forgetting they even exist. im sure theyll forive me given that they dont even know me anyway. and ill carry the guilt and pain forever anyway so at least theyll know im not geting away with it.

lets face it anyway - whats the blody point anymore.

goodbye son, i love you xxx:weep:

[Lilith1980]

Hi Joel

I think that you need to help yourself before you can address the situation with your son.

What treatment are you waiting for? Can you pester your GP to chase this up for you? Our health service can be pretty cr*p so you have to keep on at them otherwise people's files can get lost in all the other paperwork.

Although you are sounding as though you are ready to give up the fight I don't think you are. And I think deep down, you dont want to give up the fight either.

You say you don't want to be one of these fathers who doesnt pay child support, so dont be that father.

Maybe you should try writing out what you would ideally like the situation to be. Write down the things that are hindering this ideal situation and work backwards on how you can deal with things.

I know this sounds very simplistic, I dont know your whole situation and I'm not trying to make it sound easy because I dont find my situation easy to deal with either. I just wanted to try and give you some suggestions.

Don't lose hope Joel - YOU and your relationship with your son are worth putting in the effort for. xxx

[Pink Panic]

Hi Joel,

I agree with Lilith. You shouldn't lose hope that there can never be a relationship with your son.

Surely if you aren't working you can apply to get legal aid and get a solicitor to help you get access to your child? Just as Mothers have rights so do Fathers and maybe you should check out exactly what your rights are.
You said that feminists say kids don't need dads! I personally think this is a steryotypical image of women which is no longer true as most women believe that a Father should be included in the childs life if indeed it is beneficial to the child.

Everyone on this site is struggling like you are with various issues and trying to make the best out of a bad situation but there are days like you are having today when everything seems utterly hopeless, I can understand that having been there myself but don't lose hope that you can recover and have a family life with your sons again.
You said you don't want to be one of those fathers who doesn't pay child support - well don't be, fight for your rights mate!

All the best in what you choose to do.

Pink

[chalky]

Hi Joel,
Check out the Father's 4 Justice website.
Get free advice from Citizen's Advice.
Keep a diary of the efforts you make to see and be involved with your child-when he's older it might explain a lot to him.
Believe in yourself and your capacity to get through this ordeal.
Best wishes,
Chalky

[joelhall]

ok it appears that people have misunderstood some things.

1. i dont have panic attacks anymore, so im no going to wait for treatment anymore.
2. i AM ready to give up im not going to fight a losing battle.
3. i know exactl what a fathers rights are i have been to solicitors i have looked up advice on the net and checked legal books. unfortunatel having rights does not guarantee anything.
4. not all women are feminists so it can hardly be a stereotype of all women. read up on feminism.
5. im not going to pay child suport, why give my money up for a child when i have no say in his future which is all i really want o do be able to love him properly.
6. getting access will be tricky anyway as i have no idea where they are living.
7. fathers for justice are a bunch of cowboys there are much beter places to go.
8. i doubt hell ever come looking for me as i know full well what my ex is like.

thanks

[Pink Panic]

Ok ..... Don't know if I should bother but here goes!

1. If you don't have panic attacks count yourself bloody lucky!
2. If you don't fight you will never find out if you just might have won ... surely your
son deserves that you try?
3. Having rights means that if you are a fit parent then you will be able to see
your son. Any Solicitor worth their weight would advise you to take this to Court
to ensure you get access.
4. When I said sterotype of women I meant to say feminists .... sorry!
5. Only paying cash if you get to see him hardly seems fair on his Mother who will
probably be struggling to make ends meet and put food on the table. Do you
really want to think of your son not having enough?
6. There are many agencies who can trace people with very little info.
7. Can't comment on Father's for Justice as I have no knowledge of them but if
there are better places to go then why not go there??
8. Maybe your Ex will paint a bad picture of you as has been done with kids many
times before but most children do want to have contact with their blood
parents regardless of what they have been told about them.

Those of us who took the time to answer were only trying to help, bearing in mind that there were only 3 of us out of the many people who viewed your thread.

Sorry if it wasn't what you wanted to hear.

Pink.

[joelhall]

let me ask something. do you think its fair that hes taken away and then im forced to hand over money. cos i bloody dont. if she wants nothing to do with me and doesnt want the kids to have anything o do with me then im not supporting them simple as that. and im sure people here realise what single mothers get in benefits. a hell of a lot more than i do.

and i dont feel bad about stereotyping a bunch of women who stereotype men either.

and no having rights doesnt guarantee anything.

does everyone here assume im such a shit dad that ive never looked into all this?

or does anyone want to say something that every member here hasnt said a thousand times over. forgive me if i feel a tad patronised, but im getting fed up after going over and over and over legal stuff to be given the advice to see a solicitor.

im sure even a shaved monkey could figure that out - he did become president of the usa remember!

[joelhall]

by the way yes i am a sarcastic grumpy sod all the time so dont take it personally;)

[belle]

Right..

I think you should tone down the sarcasm especially when you have ASKED for advice yet you are throwing it back in members faces.

Whether you see your son or not, sadly as a FATHER you should pay for any child. My son's biological father has seen "our" son maybe 3 times in 9 years, but yet he pays, every month. I've never stopped him from seeing "our" son, he made that decision himself. I never pestered for money, he offered, as ANY man should!!!!!!!!!

Maybe you should get some b*lls and FIGHT for your son. I would NOT EVER GIVE UP ON MY SON - EVER.

You are a father and i am assuming you are neither voilent, drug addict, alcoholic or a danger to your son. Your ex cannot stop you from being a part of that childs life.

[Peacheywoo]

Joel....a couple observations from a non parent (and can't be parent)

Firstly....if the way you express yourself on here is how you express yourself to your ex then I'm not suprised she's doing all she can to stop you seeing the little one.

Secondly....keep records of EVERYTHING....maybe you can't see him now but in time you can at least show you tried.

Third....kids are smart....he WILL start asking why you aren't around and it might be worth reminding the ex that she will be lying to him if she tells him you don't want to see him..and THAT will eventually backfire.

Fourth.....if you want to feel sorry for yourself regarding your depression that is entirely up to you.But the situation with the child is about HIM - not you. So you WILL do whatever you can to make sure if you can't see him - in time he knows it wasn't down to you.

And finally....are actually taking the legal advice and doing what they suggest? Again....maybe it won't work BUT at least it will show the wee man in time that you TRIED.

Just feel grateful you have a child........some of us have no chance of ever having children and you have no clue how much THAT hurts. YOU have choices here - I have none.

[Pink Panic]

Joel,

In response to your question - NO i don't think it's fair that your kid was taken away from you but I do think that whatever reason your ex did this then she thinks it's justified. Whether it is or isn't is another matter! If the way you conduct yourself is anything like this I can totally understand why!

I take exception to your remark regarding single Mothers as I was one and there is no way they are better off than anyone! Of course they get more money than you do as you only have yourself to look after. When I was on my own with 2 girls there was no way I could even think about having a night out yet I see from your other post that you are asking for people to meet you for beers!

Re the Legal Advice - I assume that everyone is of the same thought as me in that you can go to a solicitor and raise a court action to gain access to your son! If this isn't possible for some reason perhaps you should have stated that in your post.

Sorry you feel patronised join the club!

[joelhall]

OK - lets get a couple of things sraight shall we.


firstly i didnt ask for anyones bloody advice. especially the painfuly obvious. but rest assured if i ever do want help ll ask for it. not from you of course!

and as you state bluebell the father of your child decided himself not to see him, his wasnt my decision im bein denied so dont bother comparing.

secondly noone is going to tell me youre never going to be part of your sons life again - oh but by the way were going to tak the money off ou for the rest of your life for him, cheers. sorry but you decide the dads no longer involved then thats your decision, im not being forced to give up money for something i cant ever have. of course being a woman you no doubt think its all the mans fault anyway so he should have to PAY. sory but it doesnt work like this. she wants to do it alone fair enough, theres no help from me, she CAN do it alone. though as ive already stated this is he decision not mine so if she struggles she only has herself to blame.

bringing me to my next point - yes she is a lot better off than me. how do i know this? co ive had to sort out her benefits after she left or else be made to feel bad cos shed get in a mood and then i wouldnt even know how the kids were for weeks on end. so muggins here had to sort out the child benefit and tax credits. so compared to my 59 quid a week which i still need to pay off debts with from when we were together and try to find myself somewhere to live, i know exactly what shes getting and shes not exactly on the breadline so dont bother with that little chestnut.

another thing the reason i ant to go out for a beer is because after 8 months of being stuck in the house with only my parents who ive had to move back in with after i lost the house thanks to my best friend not paying the rent (and im still liable for he outstanding too) and taking verbal abuse and being made to feel like shit ive finally got over agoraphobia and wouldnt mind getting out. sorry if im so pathetic that being able to leave he house without my mummy and daddy is something to celebrate about. would be nice to spend time with another human being for once! and see something other than the same rooms day in day out with no let up.

and no this isnt the way i usually express myslf, certainl not around them. but thn maybe after the last 8 months of lies, being made to feel like shit being ignored so i dont even know how my son who she took aa when he as 10 weeks old, is growing and getting on, for weeks on end at a time just cos she has a chip on her shoulder, then only to learn shes moved no forwarding address, and wont let me see thm gain cos she wants to be with a gippo who steals for a living and drives round in some car with no tax insurance mot or evn licence, and hen learn that neil actualy does know the word daddy but of course has no idea who i am, has neve had a chanc to bond with me, etc etc - wonder who he thinks his dad is!!!!

of course the months and months ive spent fretting about everythig and crying myself to sleep probably mean naff all to you anyway do they, after all im just another dad who can be arsed to see the kids!

oh and i could go to court (after all im sure they wont believe any of the lies she spent so long formulating and making public to get at me just because she can never admit anythings her fault so shifts the blame onto everyone else she can), which of course shell spin out for as long as possible using every stall tactic so the boys grow and get more and more distant from me, and yes i know all abouparental alienation syndrome, so i can see all the lovely things i have to look forward to. then of course just to get at me when she cant delay any further shell insist on supervised visits to get at me (oh and she can do this according to both the solicitors ive spoken to and its incredibly common), so of course shouldnt take too long of never being able to spend time with daddy unless theyre stuck in a room with a social worker present before maybe they go off the idea of seeing him altogether. they probably wil decide that anyway after constantly hearin abou how daddy is a f**k up who cant do anythin and always thinks hes ill. in fact her solicitor reckons they can stop m ever seeing the boys based on all this. and dont bother arguing cos they wouldnt do it to mothers so you wouldnt know all about this would you?

then again theres lots of differences between how they treat mothers and fathers.

of course then again havin a penis automatically turns he courts away from me anyway (and yes this is true ive been told it time and time again - even from a magistrate judge no less!). ive never been one good at turning on the waterworks like she is.

lets see what excuses has she used so far... joel has panic attacks so its not safe for him to be around the boys. joel doesnt drive so he cant travelhere regularly an doesnt have he money for it. i won let the boys out of my sight but i dont want to see him at all... the list goes on and on im sure the neil will only be about 16 when she finlly stops running out of them. oh cool problem solved, ill wait til hes aadult and doesnt know me at all then ty the painful process of reliving the childhood i had no part in. im sure he wont mind that at all!!!
theres even the one that it will be too upsettin for them to see me leave after spending time with them ad getting their hopes up then abandoing them. all of these are pathetic stalling excuses of course but very effective.

anyay after explaining just now maybe a ptiful 5% of the problems i have with this are you even surprised im a teeny weeny bit bitter about pissy about all this. especially aftr being told to do what ive already done. go see a solicitor - oh thanks cos id never have thought of asking a legal professional for legal advice! why the hell do you hink im so depressed about taking the legal route. oh and guess what the courts will do if i get orders to see him and she ignores them... NOTHIN yay!!!! seems its not in the interests of the child to prosecute mothers but it is to prosecute fathers. how much more joy can i get out of this? none it just gets worse and worse.

so before you judge (an give tired advice i never asked for) think that maybe the point of this thread (under the DEPRESSION section) was maybe i wanted to vent my feelings so i dont end up swallowing that bottle of sleeping pills i have!

just make one other things clear too. no i dont have the choice. as always the decision is made for me. shes decided she doesnt want me to be their dad. and face facts she holds all the cards here. what might work fo mothers is a far cry from how fathers are treated by the courts, especially when a mother wants to lie. dont bother with the proof arguement cos when children are involved they understandably er on the side of caution. translation: joel, youre scewed mate. sorry but proof doesnt come into it here, and if you know anything about family courts or social workers youll know how true this is.

no im sorry i dont have options now. theyre not my decisions to make. an i anyone wants to know more of this story just reread al of this years chat logs im sure itll fill you in - by the way theres a lot so be prepared.

then gain is all this geting at me simply cos you have a chip on your shoulders about dads not being involved with their kids. cos to be honest if theyre all treated like this by vindictive omen im not surprised theres so much of it going on.

and why exactly would a kid whos growing up and knows nothing of his father but sees some other bloke around who he thinks is his dad start asking after someone he doent know? sorry but welcome o the real world.

yeah in an ideal world id be there every week with them at the minimum. but sorry ladies it just doesnt work like that and you know it.

and dont bother with how painful it is never to have kids. that just doesnt have the same effect when you tell it to someone whos had the most meaningful thing in their life taken from them. trust me the pain is intolerable.

anyway before you stat with mor of your arguements lets make it clear. yep im afraid she can stop me fom seeing him. why? because shes a mother and this is the way things work.

heres somefre tips for any blokes reading. be careful which women you ever trust... feel free to slog your guts out working 14 hours a day 7 days a week, buting your guts to look after a family and trying to take care of everyhing an still be a 'man'. takes its toll on anyone, just dont make the excuse of getting ill os i kick you up the ars in the end if you expect any help yourself.


This post has been automatically edited by the NMP post filter

[eeyorelover]

Ok let's all calm down !!

Joel - I'm sorry that you are having a tough time and I hope that the ex will see the light and let you be in you son's life!!!

I understand your frustration but you need to understand that it doesn't always work in the woman's favor either.
Because there isn't a template that courts use to guide them when figuring support and visitation sometimes the woman gets the shaft too!
My oldest son's father was never a part of his life - his doing not mine just for info - and he was ordered to pay 25 dollars a month for support.
Never paid it!!
So I get a letter in the mail recently - my son is now 21 - that says that the SOB has to pay $1.15 a week on the past due amount until it's paid off!!
I figured it and that adds up to it being paid by the time I'm 92 years old!!!
I don't agree that because you can't see him you shouldn't help support him because after all - he is still your son and regardless of what a so and so his mother is being - that doesn't change that fact.
I do see why you are so upset tho and wish there was some way to help.

I agree that fathers need to have the right to see their children.
In my opinion it not only takes away from the father but also the child!!
That is a relationship that should never be disrupted!!!!!

I realize that your experience has soured you on the courts hun but don't give up!!!
Sending you (((hugs)))!!!
xxx
Sandy

[chalky]

Joel,
I am saddened by your responses.
Your initial message didn't specify the steps you have already taken.
I am going through the Courts at the minute with my son who is being denied access to his daughter.The advice given by me and others was intended with your best interests at heart-Not as an excuse for you to have a pity party.
I do understand that this is an incredibly stressful time for you.
I do not understand your reluctance to contribute to your child's upbringing financially.As a parent and grandparent I have seen at first hand how quickly the years pass.I would suggest it is in your own interests to be as big a part of your child's life as is possible-but then what do I know.
Respect to the other members who posted on this issue.
Chalky

[lesleya]

Joel
I was going to try and give you some advice after reading your thread.......
Then I read your replies to other members trying to help and I changed my mind because you sound like a spoilt brat stamping on the floor because he cant get his own way.
Well welcome to the real world, things dont come easy....for anyone...not just you...anything worth having is worth fighting for....
All you seem to be bothered about is you you you.
Obviously your child isnt worth the effort to you.
Either put up.....or shut up.
My son grew up without his dad because his dad was a spineless s**t.
But my son did go and find his dad...and you know what joel....he was soooo dissapointed when he did find him becasue he was still a spineless waste of space.
Do your child a favour and be his dad no matter what the material cost

We all try to support you joel but enough is enough.
Sorry to be hard but life is too short to be so bitter. You'll learn that as you grow up.

[eeyorelover]

Closing thread for now cuz it's getting a little too heated.