View Full Version : Fed up of fighting!
I hear people say this alot and I can understand why because it feels like a losing battle when the more we fight our thoughts and symptoms, the more they keep attacking us leaving us feel drained, tearful and worn out!:weep:
So....what if we stopped fighting them and just allowed them in without trying to resist them and getting tensed up? After all, they're only thoughts that are frightening us. They're not real.
Yes, I know, but it's so difficult not to be frightened of the feelings our thoughts create for us. So...try not dwelling on those thoughts and the symptoms will stop. Can you remember feeling different from one day to the next? I wonder why.....maybe it's because the thought that was creating your fear yesterday has gone.
But it's So hard to not think of a new worry especially when life presents them all the time. Well, try not to think too deeply when they occur and move your mind on to something else before your thoughts spiral out of control making your symptoms worse which then create more worrying thoughts.
The mind is an amazing thing. It can make us feel happy or sad. It can make us feel worried or relaxed. It can create panics or can calm us. It all depends on how we've learnt to "think".
The more we fight our frightening thoughts, the more they'll attack us and the more worn out we feel. If we adopt an "I couldn't care less" attitude to the bullies that are our thoughts, they'll give up trying to ruin our lives.
If someone says "Boo", we jump:scared10: then laugh it off:D . A frightening thought says "Boo" :scared10: but we don't laugh it off because it feels too frightening and too real:weep: but it's still a "Boo" that we're reacting to. Everything around us remains unchanged though.
So every time you get a frightening thought, try not to dwell on it, give in to it, think of something else and see what actually happens. You maybe pleasantly surprised!:)
Excellent post Bill.
I would add that distraction also helps.When we are absorbed totally in something else,like a hobby,we can forget about how we are feeling.
julie x :hugs:
Thanks Bill ,I struggle with thoughts every day and I try to just let them come and go but its hard when they involve poeple you love:weep: . Will try harder and not let them get to me.:yesyes:
Lesleyb
Hi Bill
had just got to the point where i feel like i can't go on fighting or struggling any longer.
i came on the forum and yours was the first i read, so it gave me a little hope thanks Bill xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hi Bill, I read your words of encouragement. I’m sorry to say, ‘If only it was that simple.’
“When you see a person with a broken leg, you can see their injury, but a person with a mental illness is just as ill/sick, you just can’t see their illness”. I have heard this example so many times Bill and I imagine that you have heard it many times as well.
There really isn’t much difference in having a mental illness or having a broken leg if you think of it this way.
I want you to imagine that you broke your leg. Not just once, but over and over and over again, year after year. Each time the medical profession fixed your leg; they told you that as long as you didn’t overdo things, and you exercised and ate healthy food, you should never have to worry about ever breaking your leg again.
Fantastic you say, I can do that!! And just to make sure you never break your leg again or at least not as bad as the last break, your Doctors subscribe a new ‘wonder’ med, just as an added insurance against another break. OK, no problem, I can take the meds, if it stops me from breaking my leg again you say. Because you know, it really, really, hurt having a broken leg, there wasn’t much you could do in your life while it was broken, you couldn’t drive the car, you couldn’t clean the house, go shopping, weed the garden, mow the lawn, wow, even going to the letter box was a struggle. So, OK, no problem, what’s a little medication every day as long as it stops me from another broken leg. Six weeks out of action with this leg was enough to convince me that I never want another one.
Then 5 months later, Bam! You break your leg again! . . . . Shit, you thought the meds would stop this! But you don’t need to worry, because within two months, our fantastic medical professionals have you feeling better once again, and this time they subscribe a different new ‘wonder’ med, which they tell you will be much better for you, because you seem to break your leg quite often this will work much better. Oh, Thank God, about time you say, two broken legs is about as much as I can handle. . . .
So once again, you’re back at work, and you’re actually starting to feel pretty good about yourself. However, just when you are starting to really believe there is a God out there and that life really isn’t that bad after all. . .
Then, you guessed it, Bam! You wake up one ‘normal’ Monday morning. There is not a cloud in the sky, but you struggle to get out of bed. You end up giving your kids money so they can buy their lunch at school, you don’t feed the pets even though they are all hanging around your legs trying to trip you up, and the stinking cat poop behind the couch, well who cares about that. You can’t even be bothered having a shower. All you want to do is crawl back into bed, where you stay all day, because as you know, bed is the only place where your leg won’t hurt so much. If only you could sleep 24 hours a day, now that would be heaven on earth.
Everyone is telling you, ‘come on, it’s only a broken leg’, you will be OK’. Your boss calls and says, ‘come on, I understand you have broken your leg again, but we need you at work, how about just coming in for a few hours a day’. The kids start fighting with each other, no one wants to wash up the dishes or cook dinner, so the kids have noodles again while they continue to fight and yell at each other. This only seems to make your leg hurt more. But there’s bed… Ahhh lovely peaceful bed, there’s no pain in my lovely welcoming bed. No! Stop thinking like this you tell yourself, it’s only a broken leg, men have climbed mountains and across swollen rivers with a broken leg, pull yourself together you tell yourself. You have responsibilities.
So after a week off work, Monday morning arrives far too quickly, you get yourself ready for work, reminding yourself continually that you are good, the leg doesn’t hurt, the world is a beautiful place, and all is well in my world. You get the kids off to school, now all you have to do is get in the car and drive to work. Continually chanting the entire time, ‘all is well in my world’. When you finally arrive at work, your leg is throbbing so badly all you want to do is turn around and drive straight home. But you can’t you have responsibilities, you have two children to care for, you have bills that need paying, plus everyone at work is relying on you coming in today.
So you slowly walk up the stairs into your office, the pain in your leg is absolutely killing you by this time, the pain is unbearable, but you have no choice in the matter, ‘just get over it’ you say to yourself. As you sit down at your desk, one of your work friends comes over and says three words that just make every bone in your leg shatter into a thousand pieces. “How are you?” she says. As you look up to say ‘hi’, ‘good thanks’ you look into her eyes and without any warning you break down into uncontrollable tears. Yes, the pain has won again. Not only has the pain won, but you also feel like a complete failure. The boss comes over and tells you to go home and that you really should go and see the doctor again.
Now, read what I have written, over and over again and again. Do you honestly believe that anyone that continually breaks their leg, year after year, can just ‘imagine happy places’ and ‘happy thoughts’ and their pain would magically disappear?
Well I believe it is the same with manic depression, panic attacks etc. Do people with mental illnesses honestly enjoy living in this way?
If they did, N.M.P would not have lasted one week on the internet. N.M.P survives and grows everyday, because people with mental illness are out there searching for anything to help them get better.
Like the person with the broken leg, he/she is not going to live happily ever after until he/she finds a cure for the broken leg.
The mind is an amazing thing, I totally agree with you, but mental illness is not just a state of mind. It is a dis-ease, which can attack anyone, anywhere, anytime.
I thank my God everyday for leading me to NMP.
SJ
Hi Bill,
Thank you for writing this.
I find thoughts hard, and i'm finding things a bit dificult at the moment. I think I focus probably too much on my anxiety symptoms and thoughts.
I'll try what you said.
Heather :)
Hi sarajane
i really connect with what you are saying that's exactly how life seems to be
day in day out a few good days here a few bad weeks there!!
Wishing you could stay in bed, hating yourself for being so weak willed and guilty about wallowing in self pity. Sometimes just impossible to get to the post box even, and much of the time no one to help.
Except this site to help take your mind off the depression and to use to desperately try and find some help, a cure, a miracle !!
However i do realise that our thoughts are connected to our symptoms, to the depression and the panic.
Love Richie xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hi Bill,
An excellent post as usual!!
If i were to walk out into a roadway in front of a car and get knocked down,I could be described as unfortunate.If I were to repeatedly do this,I would be described as mad.
Sometimes,i have thought of my anxiety in these terms.Why do I continue to "allow" my anxious thoughts to take hold and have possession of me causing the inevitable daily crash?
Could I not do more to prevent them?
Could I not fight harder/resist more?
What alternative do I have to this?
Change:-
Meds..CBT..NMP..talking..thinking...etc
There are so many ways in which I can fight back.
Giving myself time to change is vital.I am impatient at the best of times but with this,I want an overnight cure.
Give time time.
This too shall pass.
One day at a time.
best wishes,
Chaky
Lilith1980
21-02-08, 14:38
Hi Bill :)
I agree that we need to learn not to give importance to these thoughts, they cannot harm us and the more we dwell on them or try to fight them, the more distressing it becomes.
I am still learning how to do this - some thoughts get through and others dont. For some weird reason I do find myself thinking that, if I ignore one of the thoughts, it might be something really important that could come true, and that I should force myself to think of it, in order to get my head round it and figure it out! :wacko:
But I am learning that this doesnt work and it only ends with me getting into a state so I am better off just not giving them any importance.
I agree with SaraJane in that sometimes this is easier said than done, but nevertheless it does work (when I am able to do it!).
Jo xxxxx
Gryphoenix
22-02-08, 05:25
Another excellent post again, Bill! I've been thinking lately about 'fun fear' like that 'Boo!' you've mentioned and scary fear that I get when panicking or being anxious. It's fun to be frightened in that 1st way but the 2nd way is so 'real' that I have a hard time getting over it. Thinking positive, that's what I'm trying to do!
Sarajane--wow, that's a really great description! I think that for some people it is a state of mind, however. Because it's that way with me.
It is my thoughts that make my mind do this and it is my thoughts that give me such grief. I feared fear. I feared the physiological reaction to fear. I feared the way I thought and I feared pretty much everything. That thing about 'happy thoughts'--it really does work. I've managed to circumvent panics and panicky situations with managing my thoughts, but that is soooo much easier said than done.
I am a really huge negative thinker and that's where all my problems started. And yeah, maybe that's a mental problem I suppose in and of itself, but I've been trying my hardest to fix it through fixing the way I think. And as of late I dare say that it's been working. It's probably not going to be foolproof and I really might slip here and there in the future (negative thinking again! Toldja! :D), but I'm not going to let that stop me. After all, we do get colds that we have to trudge through, pain and all, so we do get panics sometimes that we have to trudge through, emotional pain and all. So yeah, panic is a disease, but it can also have a cure. Maybe it's a cure for only a certain type of panic, I don't know. But I want to believe there's a cure. And I'm hoping I can find it or maybe I have found it. Pratically my entire reason for panicking is centered around my heart. Once I've learned to trust my heart, I've stopped panicking. (Still working on that one though! :D)
I'm not saying that I've necesarily cured mine, and it might come back and I can still feel anxious and that threat looming behind it. But I've learned to be okay with it and that this is my cold, this is my reocurring cough, this is my asthma. I've desensitized myself to panic by simply having panic and getting used to it as many times as I've had it, and it's lost it's ability to scare me as far as it used to. Honestly ever since I started changing the way I've thought I've only had limited symtptom attacks instead of full blown ones, and I haven't even had those in awhile. Yes, on bad, stressful anxious days I can get overcome by even small stimulus's, I can't even watch a midly exciting movie. So maybe that's just the way I am. But I get like that because of that stress and anxiety and I can watch that movie some other day when I'm feeling better. Maybe this is just the way I handle stress, I hope that I can do better someday though.
Of course there are others who have panics out of the blue and other physical reasons that can't just go away no matter how much you think positively. But there are some of us who are under the sway of our thoughts.
I Truly sympathise with you Sarajane.:hugs:
There are really 2 pieces to the puzzle. Changing how we think is one part but it can't work effectively if our lives are overstressed with no support.
I can remember how I felt when I had to cope with a full time job And my wife at home with her illness. I was overloaded without any support and no matter what anybody said, I wouldn't have been able to cope with my anxiety because of the life I was living and the things I had to cope with.
No one could see my broken leg. Everyone thought I was laid back. They couldn't see my panicky feelings, my self harming or the suicidal thoughts I was having. I actually Wanted to break a leg so I felt I had a "genuine" excuse to stay in bed.
After I saw a psychologist, I managed to find ways to ease my pressures which in turn helped to cope with my anxieties better. Medications alone may appear to work for us against anxiety long term but it only takes another stressful time to knock us back.
Sometimes there is little we can do about our situations but it's important to at least try to find "me" time to enjoy things and get away from stresses, and to find support we need. Once our stresses are eased, it's easier to learn to cope so that when stresses return we're better able to counteract them....but sarajane I Truly sympathise with how you feel and I doubt anyone would cope any better than yourself! :hugs:
Thanks Bill,
I only wrote that short story the other night because, firstly I had nothing else to do, plus I did feel that the post was making light of mental illness.
It's true, that some sufferers only need to learn how to relax and also how to devert their minds into positive emotions v negative.
But sadly a large number of people not only feel that every avenue they have tried has failed them, but that the general population don't understand the enormous pain they have to live with every single day.
The jist of my novel was; if a friend you knew continually broke their leg year after year I'm sure they would be swamped with offers of help and support from everyone they knew. It's just with mental illness, for the most part you are 'on your own'.
Love and Hugs for you Bill xxxxxx
Sarajane
Bill
I wish you were part of my social circle as we could have some fasinating talks. I love going out for a pint and talking about the meaning of life etc... I would just like to add that with Health anxiety we are listening to our bodies aches and pains and making desicions when to act on a ache or pain or not, that is go to the doctor or stay away, what makes us humans is our higher intelligence which enables us to assess symptoms or danger with a rational mind. The problem is that ability to balance rational and emotional thoughts has been suppressed. I cannot ignore my aches pains and other symptoms because if I do , this may be the one, that kills me. How do we ignore passing blood, abdominal pain, head pain etc... the list goes on. We just can't. How do we redress the balance?
Mee
Bill,
I agree that to some extent the secret lies in "not fighting" negative thoughts. But when your negative thought is, "I have an urge to stare in a hostile way at this person", not fighting it means giving in to the urge to stare, and that *isn't* going to make your problem any better. I *have* to fight my thoughts because otherwise I'm going to alienate people.
The only way I can adopt a "couldn't care less" attitude to my thoughts is through meditation. For a while after I've meditated, that attitude remains. But it's not all-powerful; especially if I'm not feeling well physically (as during the past week), it doesn't take much for the anxiety to beat it down again.
Still, I'm working at it.
Francis
quote 'I wish you were part of my social circle as we could have some fasinating talks. I love going out for a pint and talking about the meaning of life etc... '
:yesyes:
Oh Bill, how I wish that too.
I also love having a good talk and debating with someone about life over a few cool beers, nothing beats it.
But unfortunately I live in Australia.
But fortunately with the power of this amazing 'web', I'm more than happy to debate on any subject you may wish to address.
You have to understand though, the meaning of a good debate in my opinion is; that we may have different views on a subject, and each of us is entitiled to voice these opinions.
Neither of us at any time though is allowed to make fun of or undermine the other with derogatory comments.
Debates that I enjoy are ones not necessarily backed up with fact, but our own personal opinions on issues.
So if you are interested and agreeable to my terms and conditions of debating.
Well Bill. . . . I'd love to. . . . so. . . .
:yesyes: BRING IT ON! :yesyes:
Love
Sarajane
xxxxxx
PS: We can always have a few beers at the same time in the NMP virtual pub.
Hi Bill, I agree completely that the way to a cure is to stop fighting our negative thoughts and how we feel too. Have any of you been to www.anxietynomore.co.uk (http://www.anxietynomore.co.uk) The site is brilliant and is written by Paul David who suffered with anxiety for 10 years. He writes about accepting how we are thinking and feeling and tells us why, too. If we accept how we are feeling we are not fighting it and the more we fight it, the longer our negative thoughts and anxiety feelings will stay with us. So its a bit like a bully really. The more you let him upset you and wind you up, the more he will pick on you and make fun of you etc. The same with anxiety. So we just need to not fight how we are feeling or thinking, then we will get over it quicker. I know, its easier said than done. I have been trying my best every day for months now and gradually it is paying off. I managed to drive almost 50 miles in the car yesterday and thats a first since almost 2 years ago, so something must be working. I didnt feel 100% with it. But things are looking a bit better.
Shirley
Shirley, Sounds like a good site as I would agree with that philosophy. We shouldn't fight our feelings but fight to change our negative thinking that creates those feelings.
Mee and Sarajane, yes, I love a good debate because listening to others opinions is the way we learn. We should always keep an open mind, be understanding and respect others points of view but also offer alternatives but not impose and let the other decide what is right or wrong. Nor do I like heated arguments so yes SJ, I'd accept your terms and conditions! It would be Most interesting and perhaps enlightening!
I think with anxiety there is no right or wrong way. We all do what we can using the method that helps us best. It's finding a way to cope with life by whatever means that matters most and debating things can often show us the way we prefer most to move forward.
Sharing is knowledge. Knowledge provides power. Power gives us strength.:hugs:
Hi Bill,
I agree totally. We should change our thinking. Have you been to the site yet? Its well worth a look.
Back soon
Shirley
Hello Shirley,
Yes, I've had a brief look. As you say there are things on there which are quite true but maybe it's just me but I'm always sceptical of people who say they are "fully recovered" and who want to "sell their" story.
I believe we learn to cope but we will suffer knocks due to our personality. We just learn to cope with the knocks better. Also, I feel that Nicola and this site offers all the things people need to regain their lives and it's offered "freely".
I saw the comment that Nicola could talk for England:D and based on her experiences I'm Sure she could write a book too but she wanted to help others "freely".:hugs:
I have looked at self-help books written by "ex-sufferers" and they mostly write the things that they have learnt or been taught by professionals. They say what has worked for "them" but I believe although the basis maybe true and things they know "can" help others, we are all different with different problems so no one therapy would suit all which is why there are are specialists in different fields of anxiety, therapists, psychologists, counsellors etc.
Personally, I'd be more inclined to read a "professionals" book on my particular issues and share my problems with those who can understand my particular anxieties. Intentions maybe good but I don't believe the vulnerable should be exploited......but that's just me.:shrug:
Hi Bill, Hope you are ok this morning. I have just been to the slimming club again.
Anyway, I must say that I do go along with Paul David when he says he is completely recovered as I have been in that magical place too. I had anxiety in 1985/86. And in August 1987 I was at Niagara Falls!! You dont fly to America when you are troubled with anxiety as you know. I can see what you mean when you talk about Nichola offering things freely though and Paul David having you shell out for a book. I bought the book by the way and it is brilliant. Its great that Nicola wants to help others freely isnt it.
Yes, you are right and we all have different problems. However, Paul Davids book was written for anxiety/panic sufferers. And everyone with these disorders needs to accept how they are feeling, change their negative thinking, relax and eat properly etc etc. I know, these things are easier said than done but I feel that what Paul David says is right, given that I have been troubled with anxiety, on four separate occasions during 30 years. I know that a lot of what he says he got from professionals but certainly his site has helped me.
You are right, the vulnerable should not be exploited but I dont feel as though I have been expolited.
So yes, I do understand what you are saying Bill. Its just that I thought Paul David and his words were right for me.
I hope you are having a good Monday.
Shirley
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