Sigh. Another failure

[Franz]

As I've mentioned before, at work I sit with a plant between me and the bloke next to me, so that I can't see him. But the plant has grown and now most of its leaves are above eye level, so I keep getting glimpses of him. Each time this happens I freak out.

So I decided to experiment with moving the plant completely - thought maybe a "sink or swim" scenario would purge me of my obsession. Of course, it didn't. I've really struggled. I know I make the bloke uncomfortable. And I can't concentrate on my own work.

I always felt I needed to build up to doing something like this, but now I see I really am stuck with this phobia for life.

That is a tough thing to face up to. It means the future offers nothing for me. All my hopes were set on one day overcoming this sh**, and now I realise that's an impossible dream. I'm a Jonas, I'm jinxed, all I can do is bring people down, I was put in this world purely to P*** people off. God I hate this ****ing life. That's all.

[Lilith1980]

Hi Francis :hugs:

You arent stuck with this phobia for life, not if you dont want to be.

Do you think you make this guy uncomfortable by you just being at work, or do you think you make him uncomfortable with your actions?

You were certainly not put on this earth to p*ss people off, if you were, you would enjoy it. Your posts give no incling to any pleasure gained from this.

You do not bring people down Francis, you are bringing yourself down with this negative thinking and blame. I think you are concentrating too much on thinking of other people - forget them for a minute, what matters is you and how you feel.

This is only the impression I get, but I think that the issue here is your low opinion of yourself. You automatically assume that other people will have the same problem with you.

Even if they do have the same problem with you as you have with yourself, "they" do not matter - YOU do. They dont know what you've gone through or are going through. I think in order for you to make progress you have to put other people and their views on the back burner. You seem to be placing so much importance on how they feel and I think this is stopping you from making progress.

I bet if you had a more positive frame of mind then your outlook and view of others would be more positive too.

But I think there does come a point where you have to s*d everyone else and concentrate on yourself. Because in order to get better, you have to work on things from within yourself first and then other things around you will seem a lot clearer.

Did you say you were seeing a counsellor at work, I thought you were seeing a therapist and that the talking seemed to be helping?

Jo xxxxx

[Franz]

Lilith,

Oh, I'm sorry yet again to burden everyone with my sour complaints! Nevertheless thank you very much for the reply. It's selfish I know, but to feel that someone's "listening" can be a help sometimes.

I can't say how I do it, but I know I somehow communicate hostility to people because of the wary way they look at me. In the past I've overheard people say I have an "aura" or an "air" about me, and from the context it was clear they didn't mean it as a compliment. Other people (including my mother!) have told me directly that I make them feel uncomfortable. It feels almost telepathic, but even if it's not, I know I do it and I know I can't control it except at the cost of massive stress to myself.

As for other people - the thing is they DO matter, because my biggest fear is being rejected by them. It's all very well to say, "So what if they reject me?" but let's face it, a life as an outcast is not worth living.

My work insurance counselling sessions are over, but I saw the counsellor privately today. I'm not expecting a cure but I seem to get on OK with her and I badly need to talk to someone about this regularly so I don't sound off to my parents about it.

I'm not sure what the way forward is. My productivity at work is pretty low because of all this angst.

I know in this day and age we're taught to think that every problem has a solution - but some problems don't. I bet until they stepped into the gas chambers, the Jews in the concentration camps imagined there was some kind of way out.

Sorry, I'm not expecting a reply to this, I'm just moaning again! I'll struggle on and there'll be moments when I don't feel quite as down as this but I've really reached the point where I find it difficult to believe in a solution. It's more a question of establishing whether I can find *something* to live for of one sort or another.

Thanks,

F

[freakedout]

Hi Francis

I know you werent particularly expecting a reply, but I couldnt resist. I can sense your despair big time. Dont apologise for having a moan, heck thats what we are here for. I dont have any words of wisdom, I am pretty negative myself about my own scenario but I know how it feels to be stuck in a life that doesnt have any hopes of getting better. There are people here who are so positive and have success stories, you never know a miracle might happen yet. Am not sure why I am rambling on like this but hang on in there, you can pm me if you want anytime, I always respond but unlike many people I dont have anything much to offer that is positive, but I DO understand the despair, and I am thinking about you. I think you do well working when it freaks you out so much.

Take care

Freaky

[Lilith1980]

Hey Francis

You are not burdening anyone with your posts, not at all. This is your negative mind telling you that. If people thought you were burdening them on here I am sure they would tell you!

I want you to take a step and NOT say sorry for posting, why are you apologising? For talking about things that are causing you distress? Why do you need to apologise? :hugs:

Its good that you have the counsellor to talk to, I think having someone in "real-time" is important.

I'm surprised at what your Mum said, surely she should be trying to encourage you out of this negative thinking rather than reinforcing it with such a negative comment and not offering you anything to build on. I suspect maybe your body language is what people are referring to?

But again, this isnt about them, its to do with you and how you feel and on some level it seems like you are trying to protect yourself from them. You dont want to be rejected by people and yet you dont want to "let them in" because you dont trust them? Does that sound accurate or am I getting this wrong?

From what you have said its almost like:-

You want to be accepted but at the same time are terrified of rejection and automatically assume you will be rejected due to your negative view of yourself, and therefore it is "safer" for you to put up these barriers around yourself and distance yourself from other people because that way, you cannot get hurt.




As for other people - the thing is they DO matter, because my biggest fear is being rejected by them. It's all very well to say, "So what if they reject me?" but let's face it, a life as an outcast is not worth living.

I know that having friends and people you get on with is important, but I do fear you are placing too much on what they think right now and this is getting in the way of you dealing with the issues with yourself.

So, if you get to a point where you start to like yourself a little better, then these feelings of self-hatred will lessen and you may not feel so much need to put up the barriers for fear that other people will see the "horrible" you. And as the barriers come down, you can begin to let people in.

I know that all sounds very simplifed and its not going to be easy, but I really think you need to work on this negative view of yourself. At the moment you seem to think that people are wary of you. But you are the one putting up barriers to them so as an example...

Why do you put barriers up? Is it because you are wary of people?
Why are you wary? Is it because you are frightened of rejection?
Why are you frightened of rejection?

And so you have to keep digging deeper and deeper until you hit the bottom, the root of all these feelings. Does that make sense?

I apologise for waffling Francis. I hope I dont sound harsh because that is not my intention. I really hope you can come through this :hugs:

Please keep posting - and dont apologise for it - because we're all here to help :)

Jo xxxxx

[Franz]

Hey Francis

You are not burdening anyone with your posts, not at all. This is your negative mind telling you that. If people thought you were burdening them on here I am sure they would tell you!

I want you to take a step and NOT say sorry for posting, why are you apologising? For talking about things that are causing you distress? Why do you need to apologise? :hugs:

To be honest apologising makes me feel better! It's a habit I inherit from my dad (got the guilt complex from him and the anger from my mum :) )



Its good that you have the counsellor to talk to, I think having someone in "real-time" is important.

I'm surprised at what your Mum said, surely she should be trying to encourage you out of this negative thinking rather than reinforcing it with such a negative comment and not offering you anything to build on. I suspect maybe your body language is what people are referring to?

I don't want to slag off my mum, as I know she loves me, but she's not an easy person. Like me she's shy and insecure and very critical - she can't hold back from telling you what she thinks of you, regardless of how hurtful if might be. Basically she doesn't like people very much, and tends to see the bad rather than the good in them - including me, I think. She's not cruel, but she's harsh. A couple of times I've been sobbing down the phone to her and she's told me to stop being self-indulgent. She had a difficult childhood and I think, as a consequence of this, when she's upset she hides her vulnerability by being hostile. The only person she opens up to is my dad; in truth I can't even really say I know her.

But it's easy to blame other people. The fact is, for most of my 30s, I didn't have these problems. And my mum says I was terrified of the world from the moment I was born, so I honestly don't think it's her fault I'm like I am. All I'll say is that her response to my problems isn't always helpful! She'll say things like, "You'll probably never get over your problems completely". To me, that's like a definitive judgment: I can't believe in myself unlress other people believe in me. But still, as I say I don't blame my mum for my problems.



But again, this isnt about them, its to do with you and how you feel and on some level it seems like you are trying to protect yourself from them. You dont want to be rejected by people and yet you dont want to "let them in" because you dont trust them? Does that sound accurate or am I getting this wrong?

Yeah, that's pretty much it!


From what you have said its almost like:-

You want to be accepted but at the same time are terrified of rejection and automatically assume you will be rejected due to your negative view of yourself, and therefore it is "safer" for you to put up these barriers around yourself and distance yourself from other people because that way, you cannot get hurt.

Yes, that's it really. But it feels like a very *physical* thing. This sounds a bit wet I know, but I'm quite a tactile person and I've never had anyone to hold. That's why I like animals - there are no taboos with them about physical contact. God that sounds weird!



I know that having friends and people you get on with is important, but I do fear you are placing too much on what they think right now and this is getting in the way of you dealing with the issues with yourself.

So, if you get to a point where you start to like yourself a little better, then these feelings of self-hatred will lessen and you may not feel so much need to put up the barriers for fear that other people will see the "horrible" you. And as the barriers come down, you can begin to let people in.

I know that all sounds very simplifed and its not going to be easy, but I really think you need to work on this negative view of yourself. At the moment you seem to think that people are wary of you. But you are the one putting up barriers to them so as an example...

Why do you put barriers up? Is it because you are wary of people?
Why are you wary? Is it because you are frightened of rejection?
Why are you frightened of rejection?

And so you have to keep digging deeper and deeper until you hit the bottom, the root of all these feelings. Does that make sense?

I apologise for waffling Francis. I hope I dont sound harsh because that is not my intention. I really hope you can come through this :hugs:

Please keep posting - and dont apologise for it - because we're all here to help :)

Jo xxxxx
Jo, you don't sound at all harsh, and thanks for responding. The problem's that this is all subconscious: I just have these triggers that set me off. Sometimes when I'm on my own I *can* like myself, and can imagine myself happy; but as soon as I get into the office the fear comes down like a trap.

For the moment I've decided to do this: position a noticeboard between me and the bloke next to me; mention to him that I have social phobia and not to take it personally; and see how I get on. I can see that I'm really not ready for "total exposure". I need to retreat a little because this chronic stress must be taking a toll on my long-term health. Last night I was trying to fill up a courtesy car with petrol and screaming and swearing in the forecourt because the petrol cap wouldn't come off. And I hate to say it but I felt a lot better for it. Maybe I should try primal scream therapy :(

Thanks, and best wishes,

Francis

[Lilith1980]

Hey Francis

I think you telling this guy at work that you have a social phobia would be a really good step. There is no shame in it and I think it might help him understand, might also take some pressure off you to know that he knows the situation :hugs:

I wasn't blaming your Mum at all, sorry if it came across like that. People are very different in how theiy respond to emotional things and that is her way. Its not right or wrong, its just her way. But you aren wrong either.

If you felt better for screaming and swearing then that's good, we all need a release. I'm not good at that, I have done that before - tried screaming and vocalising my "hurts" and its tired me out no end but helped.

Take care and keep us updated Francis :hugs:

Jo xxxxx