karen

[Carla08]

Hi all
I have been thinking about this a lot. There is such a thing as freedom of speech, and whilst I have said it does make people upset inc myself when they read that Karen has bought slimming pills as she mentioned in one of her earlier posts and other things that could upset them, I now realise and as someone who came through anorexia, that how she is feeling, what she is saying, how she sees herself, whilst others may not like it , is all part of anorexia. What if for example I took an overdose and mentioned it in my post because I was depressed, would that thread then be locked? what if anxiety caused me to become an alcoholic, would my thread be locked if I said I was drinking? I really thought long and hard about this and I feel it would be a shame if Karen left. She is suffering and she has used this site for a long time. If people dont like what they read then maybe they should not read her posts, a bit like turning over onto another channel on the tv when you dont want to watch a certain programme that upsets you. Anorexia sufferers need a lot of support, which Karen does get on here. I want her to get better but then again she has to want to get better and if she doesnt then thats how it is, but we should still support and encourage her and realise that when she is saying distressing things well then that is part and parcel of how anorexia, depression and anxiety is affecting her. What if I came on here saying I was suicidal and wanted to kill myself, which I have often been in the past, would my posts be blocked? I am not writing this to start an argument, but I gave it all much consideration and I feel that if we block peoples posts everytime we hear something we dont like then that is wrong. I dont want Karens posts blocked. Karen I would truly love to see you get better, and it is frustrating for people seeing you as you are, but then again you cant switch off anorexia just to please people, you have to want to and work towards getting better yourself, but maybe you wont and will always live with anorexia,and you do sound very depressed, which does affect your judgement as we all know who have or suffer from depression, but in the meantime you have my support and good wishes through what is a horrid time for you. Maybe this thread will be locked, but at least I wanted to be able to say what I have. I feel bad that I was angry at Karen to begin with, because she is suffering and has the right to be heard as much as we all do. Anorexia isnt a nice subject as it is distressing for people to read about but no more so than for someone who is suffering from it.
__________________
Carla X :hugs:

[marie1974]

i would love for karen to get better too as she sounds lovely and she is stronger than she realises, i guess its hard for us that dont suffer to trully understand what she goes through, you are very strong carla keep strong and positive xxhugs to you both xxxx

[popsy]

Carla, you are a truely thoughtful & gracious person. :bighug1: xxx

[Paddington]

well said that girl:hugs: you write very well ,to the point and from the heart with a true understanding of Karen's problems..i love your use of comparison to make your point more clear..and i agree with every word..BRAVO!:D Love Paddie.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Karen]

Hi Carla

Thanks so much for that :hugs:

I cannot help the way I feel at the moment and I am going through a very difficult time, made worse by severe depression on top of anorexia which has been caused following my forced admission to an eating disorder unit at the end of last year and where I had to stay for about 3 months until I finally 'did a runner' and discharged myself.

My depression now is so severe because I cannot cope with the forced changes to my body due to re-feeding and the consequences that being in an EDU again (my third time) has led to - ie bingeing again.

I think one reason I feel I have been treated unfairly here and discriminated against is due to some of the scenarios you mentioned in your post. I have read threads here where other members have mentioned suicide, or self harm, or other possible distressing actions and yet those threads were not locked. I am not saying they should be because I myself believe people can choose not to read such threads if they find them upsetting and the people who write such threads are in need of support to have written such desperate posts in the first place.

It seems to me I can do nothing right here anymore. I cannot just switch my anorexia off and pretend that everything is fine and I am happy and have no problems anymore. I cannot pretend I do not have depression. I also suffer from anxiety but tend not to talk about that so much because anorexia and depression are the far greater problems for me.

If people want me to leave then I will. In recent weeks I've been feeling like I'm not wanted here any longer and certainly that no one wants to hear the truth about what I am going through. That's fair enough but I do feel sad to leave somewhere that I've felt at home at for so long. Now it has all changed and it seems if I am not banned - which I don't know if it is going to happen or not - I am not really welcome here anymore anyway. Maybe those people who object to me so much, or object to having someone with anorexia on this forum will finally be happy when I do go - and I am not directing that at you or anyone in specific. It is just a general feeling I get now.

I have enough to deal with without the constant knocks and rejection that is happening here. I really cannot take any more :weep:

Karen

[chalky]

Hi Carla,

Thank you for posting a clearly heartfelt message.
Freedom of speech in the Forum ONLY exists in as much as nothing can be Posted which contravenes the rules of the Forum.
References to suicide will result in Thread closure and possible action against the member because the Forum is not designed to deal with it.
You mention alcoholism.I am an alcoholic and have been sober for nine years.
Were an alcoholic to post making references to dangerous practices,I would close that Thread.
The Forum is not designed to deal with anorexics.It does not have the professional expertise to do so.This has been pointed out repeatedly both privately and publically to Karen.Karen has been asked not to post about the more graphic aspects of anorexia here-because it has upset many members who have then PM'd Admins.
Karen has continued to do so.
When asked by Admins to desist from this,she claims discrimination.
Karen has been asked to respect the rules of the Forum-just like every other member has to.
Nothing more,nothing less.
The rules of the Forum are easily accessed as are those for the Chat Room but would appear to be seldom checked.
For the Forum to be a safe place,the rules MUST be enforced by the Admins and MUST be respected by all members.
Best wishes,
Chalky

[happyone]

I do not pretend to know what is 'right' or 'wrong' as like I always do, I tend to sit on the fence!

I do realise however, that I myself have sailed pretty close to the wind sometimes with the things I have posted. I have to say that it has often been what I haven't said that is more scarey than what I have said. I have never actually threatened suicide, but I have said things like 'I don't want to be here' or 'I wish I could just disappear' To people who knew me when I was a far more regular poster, they hoped I meant disappear as in drive away somewhere far from home as I had done that on occassion, but they and others who didn't know me so well.....I made them worry. Did I know what I was doing? Was I being deliberately ambiguous? Maybe, I don't know. I am truelly sorry if I was. What I do know is that my head was in a bad place. I have come on and spoken of suicide attempts without actually using the words suicide, but people who knew me, knew exactly what I was going on about.

I can also say that with 20/20 hindsight, when in the midst of deep depression (I can only talk depression here, not anorexia, but Karen also has anxiety and depression) you make silly choices, you do become self absorbed as you are stuck inside your own head with your own dark dark thoughts and that is a very lonely place to be, it is almost impossible to see that people are not turning their backs against you and if I am to be 100% honest....has that made me more graphic than need be? I can't honestly say it hasn't because it is where my head is occupying at that time, IF IF IF you reach out to someone it is more likely that part of you is wanting to survive rather than die.

I am only saying all this in order to kind of back Karen up with her claim that others have posted re suicide and self harm . I am guilty:mad: I know that does not make it right and I know that maybe I have been fortunate in that no one complained. I kind of feel guilty because of this and I don't think it is right for me to stand in the wings whistling :whistles: quietly, pretending I don't know anything about other people making references to such things.

I understand Karen's need to say the stuff she does on here. I understand the up in arms reaction to the whole thing. (I am back on that fence again!)

I have since found a forum that if I am feeling suicidal (which doesn't happen very often these days thankfully) I can be honest and say I do. That is ok if I feel the need to do this, but it has never ever felt as supportive and as warm as this place did when I was in a bad place. I can't speak for Karen, but here helped me no end (and may again if I haven't blown it with this post:blush: ) .
I hope Karen, for your sake, you are able to find a middle ground with NMP whereby you can still post, particularly with matters that are disturbing you, but not flout the rules:shrug: I know you say you can't post in other forums more designed for anorexia, but can you not do as I do and use different forums for different things?

This post is not designed as part of a debate or anything. I am not getting on a pro or anti Karen/admins lobby or anything like that! The admins, Nic and Alex do a great job and I care a lot about Karen. I just wanted to stand up and be counted and possibly shed some light on how deep depression can cloud the manner in which you do things.

Happyone

[samc100]

It's a horrible mess this isn't it?

I can see Karen needs to release her inner most thoughts of her Anorexia somewhere but I can also why the Admin team feel this is not the forum for it.

I think your post Happyone ( and hugs to you honey cos' you really have some amazing strength to fight your own battles) was very interesting and thought provoking.

Previously I think several members felt Karen was not helping herself get better and just posting the same old stuff over and over. But now I feel very worried Karen's decline is very severe and far more serious than things were a few months ago.

And it's horrid to watch this go on amidst the battles of should she post on here or not.

Karen - do you just want somewhere to write your inner-most feelings? Or do you need support? Or a mix of both? Please consider looking to other sites like Happyone suggests. Not because we don't care but we are floundering badly to help you. Out there could be others to really help and support you. Your own network will still be here for you. No one wants you to go but people are struggling in what to do to help. Because this forum does help people.

XXXX

[Karen]

Happyone, thank you so much for your post as I realise it was not easy for you to speak out in public in such a candid way and I appreciate the very elequent way you described how it can feel in situations such as ours. So thank you :hugs:

I was not referring to any one particular member or any particular post when I mentioned reading threads here about suicide and self harm but there have been occasions when I have read such posts and despite being told to the contrary, those threads were not always closed. A dear friend of mine was left feeling very upset after trying to help one such suicidal person who actually was talking of committing suicide in posts on the forum and yet no action was taken. So, Chalky I am afraid I do feel that there is some kind of discrimination going on against me or that I am being treated particularly harshly just because I am having a difficult time and because my main illness of anorexia does not neatly fit into any category of NMP.

I have listened to suggestions to go to forums elsewhere but having tried forums for people with eating disorders in the past I found my issues were triggered even more. And to be honest after what has happened here over the past few weeks I would have great difficulty trusting anyone or allowing anyone to get close again for fear of being hurt.

I used to feel at home here. I thought I had friends but now it seems like some people wish to drive me away when I have been a part of this community for a number of years. This would not have happened in the past before certain changes happened here and I think maybe I should just leave since it seems I am causing so much upset and hurt to everyone. I am sad to do so but if I will not stay where I am not wanted.

It is true that I do not want to give up my anorexia and my therapist knows about this. She is happy to work with me to find a way to live safely with it and recognises that at present it is too difficult for me to give it up completely. If my therapist believes this is the right way forward for me I do not understand why my friends and other people here cannot accept a professional's opinion.

I do also suffer from depression and I often feel suicidal but I refrain from discussing those thoughts because I suspect I would be banned from the forum for talking about feeling depressed and suicidal too.

I also suffer from anxiety and OCD. My mental health issues are complicated but anorexia is the dominent feature and the one people focus on because of the health impacts and it is the one that causes me the most distress - and this does cause depression and anxiety but I cannot always describe it like that.

I am sorry if I am breaking rules but, as Happyone said, it is not easy to think straight or clearly when feeling distressed and having every thread closed and receiving warnings about my conduct just causes me more distress.

I don't know if I have a future here or where to go from here really.

Karen

[honeybee3939]

I can really understand both points of view here and think Happyone as mentioned some excellent advice.

I do really feel for you Karen and i too would be upest if you left the site, like you say you have been a member here for quite along time and helped so many people with your good advice etc.:hugs:

I can also understand the admins point of view too regarding the mentioning of suicidal thoughts etc in threads and how it may worry others, i know myself there have been times Karen when you have mentioned suicide then not posted for a day or so and i have been worried to death about you, even to the stage where i have woken in the early hours and turned on my laptop just to see if you have posted or not to see if you are ok, do you understand what i mean? we are all worriers and care for you alot but we have to be so carefull what we write on this forum so it dosn't upset others. Im not just saying this to you i think this should apply to all members who want to write about suicide etc and you are right one rule should apply to all which hopefully from now on will happen.

I know the admin have been having a real hard time as late, i have been a admin myself and know how much effort and hardwork the role takes, its not easy believe me.

I truely hope this matter can be resolved quickly then things can move on for you Karen.

Love and hugs
:hugs: :hugs:
Andrea
xxxxx

[Cathy V]

Hi Karen,
I'm sorry if i was one of the people who contributed to your origional thread being closed (I mentioned my sis suffering from the same illness).

I think the admins have a hard job to try to monitor the site and try to be sympathetic to people such as you who have become friends to them. They know you are in so much pain and they want to help, but hey are under so much pressure to please everyone,and the illness that we're talking about is sometimes hard for people to listen to...i know thats hard for you coz sometimes you need to talk about it.

I imagine when nic first started this forum she started from little acorns, in that most of the postings were only to ask about meds, anx, panic etc. The people who suffer with these only THINK they are going to die, me included at times! and the only job nic and co. had to do then was to give reassurence that panic does not cause death.

As the forum has grown, the membership has grown to include people with more serious issues,such as self-harming and anorexia, and its this that makes it difficult, because this is seen as people who might actually WANT to die, and alot of people don't want to hear it, they don't want to hear that we can become so desperate. Most people only want to hear that its 'going to be ok' they can't imagine that someone actually wants to die, not to live...don't know if i'm making any sense...maybe i'm one of those people, and i'm truly sorry i can't reach out to you and tell you to please karen, please find a way to want to live, please.

Its actually a tribute to this website in a way, that even people with serious mental health problems seek help from NMP. This tells us that there are not too many other websites that people can trust so much.

Best wishes and i hope tomorrow is a better day for you
Cath v xxxxxx