View Full Version : where do i go from here ?
hi
this is a long post but please bear with me as i could do with some advice or suggestions ...
i posted on here a while ago and am still in the same position. here's a potted history:
earlier this year i emigrated and got a job in the med and we were planning to move there and stay there, myself, my wife and two of our three children (the other one would stay with her dad but visit frequently). the house went on the market last year when we were planning it and in dec last year i got a job, handed my notice in and left for the med in jan. feb i started work and that's where it all went wrong. i knew the job was going to be hard but living in a foreign country and working in a foreign country was really really hard. i started to miss my family terribly and this made the job harder and harder. they started noticing at work that i was struggling and although they were really good (apart from my boss who practically ignored me) i then started owrrying that i was going to get fired. we couldn't sell the house and were running out of money and then things atrarted to get really wierd. i was dissasociating and felt really 'detached'. at one point i started to believe that things weren't really happenning and that people weren't really there. and i stopped sleepoing and eating. i lost 2 stone in a matter of a month but the worst thing was that i couldn't tell my wife. i knew it would break her heart and then in the end i resigned and told her. i resigned on a friday and then over the weekend, after telling my wife i decided that i would lose her if i didn't give it another go. so i contacted the company i worked for and the HR manager came round for a chat. in the chat she mentioned that they weren't sure as the ability i had shown didn't match the ability on my cv. she also asked me if i had done the test by myself and although i had done most of it i got a bit of assistance from a 'phone a friend' as the test was done via the internet in the uk. it was only 2 questions out of nearly 50 though so i didn't really count it as cheating so told her i did the test myself. they agreed to have another meeting but it would be after my family had arrived and then i started having real panic attacks about losing the job. and the wierd feeling got even worse. i didn't sleep for 3 days over the weekend to tuesday and then i simpply fled. i didn't think i was going to be alive by the time my family arrived. phoned my wife and told her i had to come home and simply fled - left loads of stuff in the flat - had a hire car and left it at the airport and arrived back in the uk. left my laptop (with 2000 euros in it !) in the airport (we went back and got it) and arrived home.
naturally things were very difficult between myself and my wife but she has been amazing and has supported me greatly, after getting over the intial shock we are still trying to work things out but it's looking good.
when i came back i knew i had to get help as the wierd feelings were still there - everything seemed different even though i had been gone only 2 months - roads seemed different, i couldn't understand why gatwick had no planes landing when we arrived at 2am. i stayed with my brother for a few days to allow things to cool down but couldn't remember part of the journey from his house to mine. and i got this wierd light feeling in my head whenver anything like that happenned and i would simply push the offending thought out of my head. but it really scared me. scared enough to get that really strange feeling in my stomach, like a kind of impending doom feeling ...
it scared me enough to go to the doctors and i broke down in tears when i was there. i was really frightened and he gave me diazapam and ucerax and then lofepramine.
that was 3 months ago and in that time i have tried to sort out our finances as we are in loads of debt, and it's been really difficult. a few times my wife has said she was thinking of where she could have been and where she is now and i really feel like i've let her down. we are getting on ok but i don't know if i can ever make it up to her. i really would like to go back there and do it properly but we still haven't sold our house and at the minute we simply can't aford it. i spend most of my time thinking that i need to get back to work and get myself sorted out but when i think about going for an interview i am almost terrified. i've been having CBT as i was classed as an urgent referral (i scored 27 on the anxiety test which is quite high) and that has helped. they have referred me to a psychoanalyst. i went to see the doctor on friday and i asked him how long i would be on the meds. he said for 6 to 12 mnths after i am better, and that i wasn't better yet and signed me off for another month. seeing the counsellor has made me aware of that fact that i've felt like this for a long time and for lots of reason but i kind of feel like i've opened pandora's box and now can't shut it. i coped before going baroad and yet i can't seem to cope now. i won't answer the phone when it rings in case it's the CC company that is chasing me for payments and yet 6 months ago i was earning 30k+ and was confident of a good future. now i'm not sure if i'll ever work again.
so my questions are:
1. i know i'm not the only person who has ever gone through and i know a lot of people here have it much worse but have i had some kind of breakdown and is there any timescale on this ? should i be feeling better now ?
2. if i've felt like this for a while (like 15 years with varying degrees of severity) and coped previously should i just accept that it's 'who i am' and go back to work and try to get on ? or should i take the advice of wife/counselor/doctor and stay off work longer ?
3. what on earth can i say in the inevitable job interview about the last 3 or 4 months when i've been 'recovering' ?
to be honest any experiences or pointer or suggestions would be welcome
thanks (and sorry it was sooooo long !)
hiya and im sorry, cos u have been through alot and at some point our body tells us hey no more i cant cope and thats wot has happend to u hun. on the finance side have u been to the CAB? cos they are a huge help well they was to me and my partner years back. i know the feeling when u owe lots of money and frightend to answer the door phone etc. it did take us a long time but it did get sorted. i also think u should take the advice of your wife, doc etc and take some time off to gain some strength and rest. you have worn yourself down and u are burned out and u need alittle time to repair yourself, u will get through this and one thing i will say is PLEASE dont feel guilty and blame yourself these things happen and your wife loves u for u and will support u. me and my partner went through similar thing and i had mini breakdown and from experience i would say stick together and work toether as a team and dont argue over it, as we did at first and nearly split up. after a while we pulled together realised hw important we both felt each other was and worked together. always be honest with each other no matter how bad u feel and giv each other lots of hugs and quiet time together just u too, its so important and u both will be fine. once u feel better and get your confidence back u will not worry about interviews etc and explaining u will be fine and people will see that hugs and keep posting, you are doing just great xx
thanks donna but 3 months feels like a long time already and i don't know if i feel any different ... my wife says i'm better but there are times i know i'm getting on her nerves and feel like i'm depending on her too much. one thing that has come out of this that is great is that i've spent loads more time with my kids and was lucky enough to help my son with some problems he had recently and is still experiencing. for that i'm really grateful but i do honestly feel totally useless. when i saw my counsellor i said that now i'm not working there seems to be a big hole in me with nothing in it. where did it go and what was there before ?
I've just been reading all your posts to try and build a clear picture but one thing I'd like to ask is who came up with the idea of emigrating. Was it you, your wife or a joint decision? What I'm trying to find out is whether it was something "you" wanted to do for "yourself" or purely for your wife and family?
From what I've read, I think when you tried to work abroad without your family there with you, you lost your sense of security and this insecurity then caused your anxiety symptoms to surface. However, if your wife and family had been with you, would you have coped with and enjoyed your job or would you still have felt under too much pressure doing your job?
Your insecurity is no doubt based in your past but you say that 6 months ago you were earning £30k and feeling confident which presumably was in your previous job which would then prove that under the right circumstances you can actually function ok.
I feel that attempting the job abroad without your family has also destroyed your confidence in your ability to cope so you now have a lot of self doubt. Of course you now still feel under alot of pressure because of your debts which is compounded with guilt in thinking you've let your wife and family down. You now feel in a deep hole and so naturally just want to climb out "tomorrow" but being impatient to do too much too soon will just add more pressure.
There are a number of things you need to think hard about, ask yourself questions and develop a plan to move forward.
I have been in a similar position to you so I'd suggest the following...
You need to give yourself some breathing space. I think I noticed that you've contacted the CAB about the debts. To be honest I'm not sure what their advice would be but my guess would be that they might say to pay a "frequent small amount" to buy you time but like I say, I honestly don't know what they would suggest. I'm hoping though that they would come up with something to create some "breathing space" so it's one less worry.
Do you feel capable of doing any work at present? I'm thinking that if you tried temping, it would help you to rebuild your confidence, bring some money in and help to ease your guilt and pressures. If you don't feel capable then give yourself time until you feel better.
Attempting to emigrate obviously backfired this time but you will have learned from this so know how to do things better next time so give yourself some time before you try to attempt it again. Take small steps and in time try a full time job in this country before you think of attempting working abroad again. It can wait as I'm sure other opportunities will arise.
Ask yourself if emigrating is something "You" Really want to do and if it is, then find a way to make sure that you're not out there working alone next time and I'm sure you'll be fine but you Must be sure that the job is "right" for you and that you would enjoy it.
In answer to your questions...
1. Your anxiety was brought on by too much pressure, being alone and feeling insecure without your family with you. There is no timescale for recovery but I'm Absolutely Sure you Will recover if you think things through and take small steps to rebuild your confidence.
2. Stay off work but in this time create a plan. Be Absolutely Sure what You want for your own happiness and take small steps working towards it. If you are happy in what you're doing then the family will also benefit.
3. All you need say is you tried working abroad but missed your family too much which made you feel anxious. When I applied after a much longer period out of work, I was just honest about my history because lots of people suffer from bad episodes.
I know the medication will help at present but in the longer term you just need to re-build your confidence by doing a job that makes you feel happiest whether here or abroad but take small steps tackling one worry at a time and don't put too much pressure on yourself. Things Will work out in time.
[quote=Bill;354954]I've just been reading all your posts to try and build a clear picture but one thing I'd like to ask is who came up with the idea of emigrating. Was it you, your wife or a joint decision? What I'm trying to find out is whether it was something "you" wanted to do for "yourself" or purely for your wife and family?
it was really a joint decision and a plan for us to give the kids a better quality of life and also us. when i came back my wife had said it was 'another chance' for us as our relationship was strained before i went. over the last few mnths we have grown much closer and to be honest i have relaised how little i did with the kids and as a couple. doing all the cleaning and cooking etc has been good an opened my eyes a bit !
From what I've read, I think when you tried to work abroad without your family there with you, you lost your sense of security and this insecurity then caused your anxiety symptoms to surface. However, if your wife and family had been with you, would you have coped with and enjoyed your job or would you still have felt under too much pressure doing your job?
we've talked about this (myself and my wife) and i think i would have coped a lot better. the job was still pressured but once i started to feel the pressure of being there alone i couldn't handle it and got into a cycle of fear and avoidance that i couldn't seem to get out of. i can remember feeling really trapped with nowhere to go and nobody to talk to. it was probably the lowest point in my life and at one point thought i might be better off not being around at all. having someone to share that with would have been better. the job might still have not worked out but we would have been together.
Your insecurity is no doubt based in your past but you say that 6 months ago you were earning £30k and feeling confident which presumably was in your previous job which would then prove that under the right circumstances you can actually function ok.
i know. i've thought this myself. i just can't seem to remember how i 'felt' whilst i was coping in that situation ! it's like i've become someone else but am owrried that perhaps i've just become the person i always was. the fact that my insecurity is built from the past is spot on. this is the reason the CBT counsellor has referred me for psychotherapy. my relationship with my father was a disaster (he is currently dying of alcohol dpeendance related illnesses and even this stops him from contacting me - we haven't spoken for nearly 7 years). my mum also died 2 1/2 years ago i handled that really badly and still constantly think of how i failed her.
I feel that attempting the job abroad without your family has also destroyed your confidence in your ability to cope so you now have a lot of self doubt. Of course you now still feel under alot of pressure because of your debts which is compounded with guilt in thinking you've let your wife and family down. You now feel in a deep hole and so naturally just want to climb out "tomorrow" but being impatient to do too much too soon will just add more pressure.
There are a number of things you need to think hard about, ask yourself questions and develop a plan to move forward.
I have been in a similar position to you so I'd suggest the following...
You need to give yourself some breathing space.
I've been spending a lot of time working through some industry qualification exercises to rebuild my confidence and make me more attractive to employers. This takes up a few hours a day and the rest is spent loking after the kids and keeping the house in order. i as advised to buy a book on low self esteem and i did and that's helped a bit.
I think I noticed that you've contacted the CAB about the debts. To be honest I'm not sure what their advice would be but my guess would be that they might say to pay a "frequent small amount" to buy you time but like I say, I honestly don't know what they would suggest. I'm hoping though that they would come up with something to create some "breathing space" so it's one less worry.
i've done all i can to sort out the debts and mbna have been awful. they have totally ignored my position and called sometimes 3 or 4 times a day. the cab were brilliant but because we are paying some debts (the ones we can afford) they can't represent us unless we treat all our creditors the same way. i didn't think i would still be like this now and always saw it as a temp thing. for that reason we paid the debts we could and didn't want to go down the whole debt management route. al i want is a bit of breathing space as you mention but mbna simply refuse to stop hounding me. i've posted on the consumeractiongroup.co.uk and they have been a real help.
Do you feel capable of doing any work at present? I'm thinking that if you tried temping, it would help you to rebuild your confidence, bring some money in and help to ease your guilt and pressures. If you don't feel capable then give yourself time until you feel better.
as i said i'm doing the MCTS courses, temping might be an option but i'm worried as to how that would look on my cv. i don't really know ...
Attempting to emigrate obviously backfired this time but you will have learned from this so know how to do things better next time so give yourself some time before you try to attempt it again. Take small steps and in time try a full time job in this country before you think of attempting working abroad again. It can wait as I'm sure other opportunities will arise.
that's exactly what we are planning. my wife said she will never stop wanting to move abroad and it really is what i want as well. don't get me wrong, some parts of being there were really good and i know it would still be a good move.
Ask yourself if emigrating is something "You" Really want to do and if it is, then find a way to make sure that you're not out there working alone next time and I'm sure you'll be fine but you Must be sure that the job is "right" for you and that you would enjoy it.
i've thought long and hard about this and i'm sure it is. it's still a worry that it might not work out again but you're totally right that the job has to be right as well. i think i kind of rushed into the job i had 'cos i was so glad to have 'made it'.
In answer to your questions...
1. Your anxiety was brought on by too much pressure, being alone and feeling insecure without your family with you. There is no timescale for recovery but I'm Absolutely Sure you Will recover if you think things through and take small steps to rebuild your confidence.
2. Stay off work but in this time create a plan. Be Absolutely Sure what You want for your own happiness and take small steps working towards it. If you are happy in what you're doing then the family will also benefit.
this is a difficult one i think as my happiness isn't something i often take into consideration i think. i want to make my wife and kids happy more than i want ot make me happy most of the time. does this sound odd ? now i think about it it does a little. i'm still worried that i'm too dependent on my wife for the way i feel in terms of feeling happy.
3. All you need say is you tried working abroad but missed your family too much which made you feel anxious. When I applied after a much longer period out of work, I was just honest about my history because lots of people suffer from bad episodes.
i think the thing that is worrying is that i work in IT and have sat in on interviews before and really hated the fact that perfectly good people are rejected for the simplest things. i don't know if i could sit in an interview and try to explain how i didn't cope without giving the impression that i wouldn't be able to cope in the job i was applying for. one to think about later i think ...
I know the medication will help at present but in the longer term you just need to re-build your confidence by doing a job that makes you feel happiest whether here or abroad but take small steps tackling one worry at a time and don't put too much pressure on yourself. Things Will work out in time.
to be honest i'm not sure of the meds are working - i don't feel very much different but i will persevere with them. my GP says they can take a long time to work and i've been on them for about 2 1/2 months i think now.
Bill, thanks for your reply, I think you might be the first person that seems to have hit everything spot on and you've given me loads to think about. Thank you.
hiya i really feel u need to find happiness inyourself because it seems you are trying to make everyone else happy and trying to please everyone. what about you? this is where i think the therapy is great and its helped me with the same sort of thing. you also need to deal with your mums death i feel too it seems you blame yourself for so much and u must not. i hope you get more help for these problems and work through this as once u have it will make u feel better about yourself and much more confident as a person hugs to u xx
A few thoughts to add to Donna's points above which I agree with.
when i came back my wife had said it was 'another chance' for us as our relationship was strained before i went. over the last few mnths we have grown much closer
They say that every cloud has a silver lining! Leaving to work abroad knowing that your relationship was strained would I feel have been an extra worry for you which I think could have added to your feelings of insecurity and so subconsciously added to your anxieties. It wasn't a good platform to step from. However, in doing so and after all you've been through, you are now feeling much closer again so I feel you shouldn't feel that you've let your wife down because your relationship has grown stronger. Often bad events can create a stronger bond. If you hadn't attempted the move, the relationship may have still been strained so try not to beat yourself up so much.
Personally, I believe things in life happen for a reason but we often only see the reasoning some time after the events.
i can remember feeling really trapped...at one point thought i might be better off not being around at all.
This is a Very common cause of anxiety symptoms. When we feel too stressed either by circumstances in our daily lives or by emotional trauma that has generated fearful thoughts, we feel trapped. Feeling trapped then makes us feel panicky so we experience panic attacks or depressing thoughts. We implode on ourselves and like I've often said, we behave like a parrot in a cage by pulling our feathers out! We pull ourselves apart with guilt and worry, with the worries often focussing on our anxiety symptoms or general health.
my relationship with my father was a disaster (he is currently dying of alcohol dpeendance related illnesses and even this stops him from contacting me - we haven't spoken for nearly 7 years). my mum also died 2 1/2 years ago i handled that really badly and still constantly think of how i failed her.
I think the relationship with your father would cause you a feeling of rejection and being the sensitive caring man you are, I'm sure this would upset you. This hurt would then cause you emotional stress which when kept bottled will cause anxiety.
You are also obviously carrying alot of guilt and repressed emotions about your mother which will also cause anxiety.
I feel you're doing the right thing in letting these feelings out because it will help you to come to terms and accept the past, and in doing so will help you to move forward with a less troubled mind and so suffer less anxiety.
You appear to be helping yourself regarding small steps towards the future and you're doing all you can to ease the debts so I'm sure you'll find a way through.
as i said i'm doing the MCTS courses, temping might be an option but i'm worried as to how that would look on my cv. i don't really know ...
My father used to be a manager. We moved away from his job so he had to resign. He hoped to find another job but because of his age being over 60 at the time, he became very frustrated that employers wanted younger staff. I then asked at my work if he could work with me and they accepted him. From there he decided to sign on with a temping agency and after working as a temp for a company, they employed him full time as he proved to them how much he had to offer with his experience.
I don't feel temping should be frowned upon by companies because when jobs are scarce, temping is a good way to get a foot in the door. In my mind it's just like doing voluntary work but you get paid for temping. It helps to ease a person back in to full time employment and can open doors. My brother is in a similar line of work to yourself and he's worked for limited periods for various companies, moving on each time a job has been completed. It's an option.
my wife said she will never stop wanting to move abroad and it really is what i want as well. don't get me wrong, some parts of being there were really good and i know it would still be a good move.
I know you've said that to emigrate was a joint decision but from what you've said, it appears to be a high priority for your wife. You of course want what's best for her and your family but you're also the one who has to bring the money in to support them unless your wife is prepared to work too. It's therefore very important that when you do attempt it again that you have your wife beside you to support you as there will be a huge weight on your shoulders as you could well have a fear of failing them and this fear could generate anxiety like before. You're a very caring man who wants to do his best for the family. You therefore need to consider how to make sure you're not working abroad alone for too long a period or the pressures you're placing on yourself could make history repeat.
i think i kind of rushed into the job i had 'cos i was so glad to have 'made it'.
I think perhaps you rushed into this job for the wrong reasons. Your relationship was strained and knowing how much your wife wants to live abroad, maybe you felt this could be the answer to your problems. Maybe. Next time don't rush in. Plan things and be Sure all you need is in place. Also make as sure as possible that you'll enjoy the job because unhappiness in a job can cause anxiety.
i want to make my wife and kids happy more than i want ot make me happy most of the time. does this sound odd ?
No, because you're a very caring supportive husband and father who wants the best for his family. However, as Donna says, you need to think of Your happiness too because the family relies on You. If you're not happy where you're working or what you're doing then the families happiness could be affected as a result. Don't forget You!
i don't know if i could sit in an interview and try to explain how i didn't cope without giving the impression that i wouldn't be able to cope in the job i was applying for.
Don't volunteer any more information about your past than you have to and gloss over things that you feel could go against you by putting some sugar around the truth. When I went for an interview after 10 years out of work, I told them I had an episode of anxiety brought on through caring for my wifes illness BUT that things were much better now. I got the job.
to be honest i'm not sure of the meds are working - i don't feel very much different but i will persevere with them. my GP says they can take a long time to work and i've been on them for about 2 1/2 months i think now.
The meds will help to ease your anxiety symptoms but re-building your confidence will "cure" you to the point you were before in your previous job. You've had a bad experience which has brought issues to the surface that you've left undealt with but I'm confident that through therapy and helping yourself by taking small steps using a plan that you produce, that things Will improve for you........but you need to give yourself time for everything to fall into place.
I'm glad that I was of some help in my previous post. Things Will work out.
hi i think bill says alot of very important things here and i agree very much that things happen for a reason whether good or bad and sometimes when relationships are strained and something big happens it can bring u closer, this has happend to me before. i think mayb moving abroad was the wrong decision for the moment and i think u and your wife sorting out your relationship was more important and whats happend has kind of made u both see that and has bought you closer. also on the employment front like bill says only tell them wot you really need to. they dont need to know the ins and outs. talking and writing about your issues will help you to confront them and deal with them and the guilt you have inside u in a terrible feeling but with the right help and support you can rid yourself of it. you can not blame yourself either for failing your mum, she was your mum and a good mum will love u and be proud of you no matter wot u have or have not done, so u must realise that. i think u need to work with your wife on your twos happiness and that of your kids and once u have not rock solid again and u are also beginning to sort out your other issues things will all start to come together for you. you have to face things head on to deal with them and sometimes it really hurts and gets worse before better but in the long run it will get rid of the demons that are messing with your head. b strong and u will be fine hugs xx
hi bill and donna - thanks for your comments - i went for a meal and a drink with two old friends from uni that i haven't seen for years yesterday and was telling them what had gone on and they were really sympathetic and it totally suprised me. i've decided to relax for a week or so and not worry about the job situation if i can help it and concentrate on fixing myself and our marriage. thanks for your help and i'll keep keep you posted.
Sounds like a good approach. I'm sure things will work out given time and patience.
It was a pleasure to offer what I thought might help.
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